According to sources close to the scene, the turf-wars are heating up even before the new Archbishop is enthroned.
It seems that Fr Alex Karloutsos (the “patriarchal nuncio”) doesn’t like the cut of the Lambrianides’ jib. I am told that Fr Alex “couldn’t find” a venue in The Big Apple that would seat more than 200 people. This didn’t sit well with Metropolitan Methodios of Boston (the locum tenens if you will) and thus, Karloutsos was shown the door. Anyway, that’s what I heard.
Fr Alex has had a free hand for several years now as the eyes and ears of Patriarch Bartholomew. Word on the street was that you didn’t cross him, even if you were a bishop. Especially if you were a bishop. Karloutsos knows where the bodies are buried if you catch my drift.
This is not to the liking of the new sheriff, who feels that he, on the other hand, has the complete support of the Phanar. Only one thing is certain, one of them will win. In the past, I’d have put my money on Fr Alex however, times change, don’t they?
In the meantime, the natives in Chicago are getting restless. Several have come out with a strategic plan for revitalizing that diocese –not a bad thing in and of itself. However, they’ve also come out with an even more bolder financing plan, one which bypasses 79th Street altogether. In other words, all parishes will send their allocation to Chicago and Chicago will then send a cut to NYC.
http://protectingorthodoxchurch.blogspot.com/2019/05/chicago-metropolis-begins-cutting-ties.html
Personally, I have nothing against this plan. That’s the way it should be. On the other hand, I understand why the GOA has a revenue-sharing plan in place, that is to say, all parishes send their allocation directly to NYC who then divvies up a more-or-less equal portion back to the dioceses. This type of financing makes the smaller dioceses (like Denver) more viable.
Regardless, it is reminiscent of Ft Sumter, that cannon-shot which made secession inevitable. Metropolitan Nathanael has the support of some of the Archons in his diocese, which to my mind, signals a growing fissure between the Archons/L100 in general.
More to follow.
P.S. As for me, I like a lot of butter on my popcorn!
BTW, here’s the source for the inside baseball within the GOA between Fr Alex and Arb LP:
https://ocl.org/elpidophoros-election-bound-to-create-colossal-problems/
Like the great mob movie Casino, Alex’s (Joe Pesce) job in Las Vegas (New York) was to watch the archbishop (DeNiro) for the union mob bosses back home in Cleveland (Istanbul). Eventually, in the movie, they all got whacked. Figuratively, that’s what going on here.
It seems to me, this may all come down to a standoff between the two!
What makes anyone think 200 people would show up for the event? Fr. Alex was simply doing his job. Rent a Starbucks or a phone booth.
Or a small, dying GOA parish somewhere in greater NYC area. It would be a good use of available resources.
Makes too much sense.
And anyway, stop thinking like a Christian, Tmatt. No well-heeled archon/oligarch is going to take his long-suffering wife and break bread with the hoi polloi. I mean, they gotta get their picture taken with the governor or some such luminary.
As a member of the GOA, I am aware of the woeful situation my jurisdiction finds itself in today and lament the wounds that have been inflicted on the Body of Christ by its leadership and by unwarranted help from afar. Yet in spite of this, I am fortunate to say that I belong to a community of loving souls led by an outstanding spiritual father and loving shepherd, lending credence to the fact that the Church lives primarily within the context of parish life, as a function of the family unit, and in the abiding hearts of faithful believers.
I have followed postings on this blog since its inception and have, for the most part, found most of them rewarding and edifying to read. Often the comments of bloggers have been informative, thoughtfully written, and serving as expressions of concern for the Church. Yet certain bloggers are hellbent on playing the game of “one-upmanship” or “gotcha,” casting themselves as better informed and more “Orthodox” than the other. Most egregious in my view is the overwhelming attention paid by many persons to issues of church politics and governance as opposed to matters of faith, conflating schism with heresy and forgetting, all along, Christ’s command to forgive and to love one another.
Over time, a reader learns which contributor is sufficiently knowledgeable to be taken seriously, and whose offerings are based on sound and accurate scholarship worthy of reading. In many instances, readers undoubtedly cringe at the vapidity of what some bloggers have to say—content, context, accuracy, and logic be damned. But then, it’s the First Amendment right of free speech and expression, if you will, that prompts some to write and to command our attention. I, myself, rarely add my voice to the chatter, preferring, instead, to listen and hopefully to learn.
Which brings me to the point of this posting. While no one can deny the myriad problems existing today in the GOA and at the EP, or that ecclesial perfection has not always been the hallmark of Church history, the vitriolic criticism by certain writers leveled at both institutions often seems unwarranted to me. I, for one, am an optimist, the glass perennially half full. And at this moment of renewal in my archdiocese, I am hopeful that Archbishop Elpidophoros will emerge as his own man; and to the extent he can, bring a semblance of order and discipline to the chaotic situation awaiting him. I decry the premature casting of stones by doomsayers as so often seems the case. A new chapter is now unfolding for the GOA, and I, for one, am willing to wait and see. Hopefully, others will do so as well.
If we focused on our own sins and our spiritual life, there would be less time to worry about church politics
And to throw stones.
Getting vocal isn’t always helpful
My aunts confessor told her once
“Leave ecclesiastical matters to the saints”
I pray for my new Archbishop.
As we should all! Whether your GOA or not
Because I feel in the end if one jurisdiction fails
The rest of us, spiritually, are at fault
Thanks for your thoughtful comments J-RO
“Because I feel in the end if one jurisdiction fails. The rest of us, spiritually, are at fault”
Then we are already at fault for the failures of much larger, noteworthy, and theologically significant dioceses and jurisdictions throughout history. The failure of the GOA, while potentially devastating in the short term, would barely be a flash in the pan in the grand scheme of things.
You know, I don’t disagree with J-Ro. However let’s take this to its logical conclusion: we are not fighting Pat Bart because we don’t like the GOA or resent his ethnocentrism, we are fighting him in the Ukraine because what he did there was appalling on so many levels and destructive to the Church as a whole.
Same thing with the Cretan Robber Council.
Very well said.
JRo, please understand, that many who are antithetical to the GOA are that way because of the contempt that some (many?) in the GOA have expressed to those who are in other jurisdictions. I myself have felt the sting of that criticism.
I applaud however your optimism. I pray that it is warranted. But remember, the “renewal”of which you speak must be directed in the path of collegiality and tradition. Many of us fear that the GOA is too far along the path of modernism, secularism and globalism.
J-RO: Your posting was like a breath of fresh air. Yes, we need to give the new Archbishop a chance.
J-RO,
I appreciate your comments, though I don’t agree with you on most things. I wish we heard more thoughtful comments like this from a wide variety of faithful in the GOA.
I’m less inclined to be optimistic. I see how the GOA’s mother (the EP) is persecuting a saintly and suffering church leader of Met. Onuphry in Ukraine. Such persecutions cannot come from Christ.
I see how Archbp Elpidophoros comments more on the “omogeneia” than he does about Christ and is not interested in mission to “garden-variety” Americans, something that I believe that all of us who are Orthodox Christians in America are called to do.
I see how the new Archbp and the EP view inter-Orthodox relations and how he is not sry up to be a leader inspiring the other Orthodox in America. Rather, he despises Russians, which alienates much of the rest of American Orthodoxy that grew out of the original Russian mission to Alaska in the late 1700s.
The new Archbp will, by all accounts, be a very divisive figure who may be focused on building up Greek pride and the WTC shrine but who will further alienate the other Orthodox in America. He seems poised to isolate the GOA from their Orthodox brethren more and more by the day, something that, bizarrely, doesn’t seem to bother many in the GOA.
I grew up in and spent two decades in the GOA, thus I’m quite familiar with the GOA ethos, which in my experience, is not consistent with the Orthodox ethos one gets in more faithful, humble, and down-to-earth Orthodox bodies in America. It was my experience that too many in the GOA don’t view pride as sinful and don’t even view confession as part of the sacramental life in Christ. It’s for reasons like these that so many non-Greek-Orthodox Americans don’t understand the ways of most Greek Orthodox faithful in America, and vice versa. We’re growing further apart by the day, and I don’t think that Archbp Elpidophoros will work to halt that trend.
Archbp Elpidophoros and the EP are much more western and Vatican focused than the rest of the Orthodox world — that’s an undeniable fact.
I’d love more than anyone to see Archbp Elpidophoros concelebrate with Met. Tikhon, Met. Joseph, Met. Hilarion, and the other non-GOA bishops in America in brotherly love, but I just don’t see that happening. He’s not poised to be a unifier but a divider. The Holy Spirit does not divide and break down Christ’s body of the Church — the Holy Spirit unifies it and builds it up.
I could be totally off base, and I hope that I am. But one has to go where the data point, and I’m certainly not optimistic about the future of the GOA as a central, integral part of the fabric of the body of Christ (His Church) in America.
May God bless you, my brother. I simply don’t see wishful thinking about the new Archbp as a viable outlook on the future. I pray for my family and friends in the GOA, may you grow close Christ through the sacramental life of the Church, and may the Church give you the opportunity and tools to do that.
Great post Anon 2.
I agree completely.
You are correct in thswt the Church stands or falls at the local level. My feeling is the greek archdiocese is a mixture of near protestants, secularists and devout Orthodox Christians worshipping in the way the Church teaches and I have mentioned.
Like you I hate church politics and would rather be posting about issues around new atheism, BIO ethics, globalism and Christian response etc etc, and above all, deepening our life in Christ.
But Sadly in the Phanar we have a Patrarch that openly espouses pseudo papal claims and acts in an appalling way. I am not saying others a model of rightiousness, but none are openly verging on heresy and appalling corruption.
The abuse of american church is criminal.
It has been reported the luncheon with be at the New York Hilton and they are expecting some 1,3000 or so attendees.
They certainly don’t go cheap. :p
Do they not realise what impression this level of ostentation makes THIS IS ALL U NEED TO KNOW.
They are like the ancien regime at Versaille circa 1789!! They do not even see themselves anymore.
Oops … just noticed the typo. Please forgive me, meant 1,300 or so attendees!
George,
Know I’m aware of the hubris and sense of ownership exhibited by many in the GOA. And it’s painful for me to admit as much As for modernism, secularism, and globalism, the accusation, if somewhat exaggerated, is not without merit. One must admit, however, we’re not living on Mr. Athos, even if our roots are anchored there. Collegiality, you say? Not in the Greek lexicon.
JRo, I’m the furthest thing from a monk! But Athos, Meteora, Valaam, Optina, the Kiev Caves, those are ideals aren’t they? Would that we chose our bishops from actual monastics rather than academics.
Say what you will about (real) monks, it’s darn hard to bribe them. Maybe we ought to bring back enforcement of simony? Just wondering. They really took it seriously back in the day.
George this is at heart of problem.
In Tsarist Russia future bishops had a grounding in academic work, a monastery, often then running one REAL NOT PRETEND, then teaching, then pastoral work before finally being ordained. But they were MONKS.
Sure there was abuse. While there is human kind, there will be. Why the Church, but it produced Saints. And at worst at least Men who were monks and showed it.
George the laity will vote with their feet as they are. I who have a little knowledge of greek America just stand in awe at this FANTASY LAND.
That’s the key though, isn’t it Niko? The production of saints.
You know, that’s one major brief I have against Protestantism –where are the saints? Luther, Calvin, Zwingli? Now I know that many if not most Protestants consider sainthood as idolatry but seriously, do they in their heart of hearts believe that?
Regardless, Holy Russia had a problem with the four Empresses who had a distaste for monasticism and did their best to squelch it but despite their best efforts, they failed overall. You can see it in the list of Russian saints from the 18th and 19th centuries. In the 20th century of course there are the tens of thousands of New Martyrs. Still, how many saints has the See of Constantinople produced in the interim?
That should tell us something.
George, here is a list I just made of New Martyrs under the Constantinople See from recent centuries. I am sure that others on here could list more.
St Athanasius of Attalia, 1700
St Thecharis, 1740
St Cosmas of Aetolia, 1779
St Cyril VI, 1821, former Patriarch
St Gregory V, 1821, Patriarch
St George of Ioannina, 1838
St Euthymios of Zela, 1921
St Chrysostomos of Smyrna, 1922
These are men who were killed by the Patriarchate of Constantinople for being Christians?
That’s what this post seems to say. Could it be so?
BTW: Try to translate ‘See’ into Greek or Russian and see what you get. Not our word.
No, George appeared to be implying that not many under the Constantinople jurisdiction gave their lives for the faith in recent centuries. But many did die for the faith.
John, thanks for the list. However, are you sure about “St” Cyril VI? Is this Cyril Lukaris? If so, he was garroted but he was most definitely not a saint but a Calvinist who hated icons and wanted more Protestantism within the Church.
I could be wrong however. Please check me on that.
Cyril Lukaris was indeed a person who fell into Protestant-influenced error; he was executed by the Turks in 1638, apparently at the request of the Roman Catholic powers.
However, I was posting about Cyril VI, the Patriarch of Constantinople from 1813 to 1818. He resigned in 1818 and was executed by the Turks in 1821 as part of their retaliation against the Greek War of Independence.
Ok but wasn’t the Cyril you speak of the VI? Am I mistaken?
Cyril Lukaris who died in 1638 is sometimes referred to as Cyril I.
I was posting about Cyril VI, martyred in 1821.
Of course, there were many Greek “New Martyrs” of the last 200 years whose names are not recorded. That is because whole families disappeared as the result of Turkish outrages in the Greek War of Independence. and the Asia Minor Catastrophe.
Thanks for clearing that up. I need to dust off my copy of Runciman’s The Great Church in Captivity.
You are indeed very wrong. St Cyril Lucaris was declared a Saint by the Holy Synod of the Patriarchate of Alexandria in 2009 and is celebrated accordingly each year at the Patriarchate in Alexandria where some of his relics are kept. Please give him the respect he deserves and that the Church (of Alexandria) deems fit for him, and stop spreading false statements about him and his legacy. Fortunately for us, it is not your decision who is and isn’t a Saint. May he intercede for all of us.
OK, Costa, you got me. I am sure that Lukaris was a Calvinist who despised icons and therefore not canonized by the Church of Cpole.
Anyone, please, help me clear this up. I don’t want to be guilty of defaming a legitimate saint.
As a lawyer, I hasten to interject that there is no recognized action in Anglo-American jurisprudence for “defaming a legitimate saint”!
http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=640
From the Patriarchate of Alexandria’s website
https://www.vimaorthodoxias.gr/patriarxeia/plithos-ierarchon-stis-ekdiloseis-tou-agiou-kyrillou-loukareos-stin-alexandreia-foto/
We can see Metropolitan John of Pergamon attending this seminar on St Cyril held in Alexandria, does this not imply Constantinople’s canonisation, or at least acceptance of the canonisation.
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita?id=15608:
Is the Patriarchate of Alexandria not legitimate enough for you?
So it’s okay to defame him if he’s not canonised by Cpole but is by Alexandria?
I guess so. However brings up an interesting question: did he repudiate Calvinism?
Regardless, I am tilting more to Alexandria’s position in almost all matters, especially given the state of ecumenism & heterodox-sympathy for that of Cpole.
True story: last Sunday, our parish hosted a priest from Kenya, Fr Methodius. We were more than impressed with his no-nonsense style of pastoral care and administrative style. (He manages an orphanage of 180 children.) He and his wife have four children and he struck me as a kind, gregarious, but very patriarchal sort of man.
From what I hear about Africa, the Church is going great guns there and not only are their priests on fire for the Lord but their bishops (from what I’ve heard) strike me as resolute men. I for one, look forward to the day when the Pope of Alexandria is placed first in the Diptychs. For the life of me, I don’t see how Cpole can hold a candle to this patriarchate. Perhaps if they actually acquired some native real estate and started pastoring again instead of gaddying about at theological conferences, they’d have a chance.
According to quite a few sources, he never accepted it to begin with.
I prefer not to use this website, however, I find it’s statements with regards to St Cyril fairly substantiated. This is a brief clarification of the controversy. It’s quite interesting that the Old Calendarists are so ardent in their support for him.
http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/ca4_loukaris.aspx
As a member of said Patriarchate, I can confirm that there is a vibrant mission all over Africa, in some countries more so than others.
And we do have some fantastic Bishops, most of which hail from the Church of Greece, together with some local Bishops, clergy and laypeople who work tirelessly for both the mission and the Greek, Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian diasporas.
I do tend to disagree with your statements about Constantinople. The diptychs are perfect the way they are. The Alexandrian Patriarchate has very little property in Egypt itself, most of which was acquired during the Greek influx during the 19th century. Some churches of which have been subsequently leased out to the Coptic Church as they aren’t being used due to lack of members. There is a very small Egyptian mission in Egypt most of which are descendants from Arab refugees from the Middle East that were under the Antiochian Patriarchate.
With regards to the mission in other African countries, most of these are very new, having started in the early to mid-twentieth century, most of which were based around Greek communities that were established by Greek expatriates but were mostly abandoned due to civil wars and other reasons which forced Greeks to go back to their homeland. In many instances clergy were restricted to only serve Greek communities. Some bishops refusing liturgies to be served in English and other native languages.
I personally don’t think Alexandria has sufficient experience (yet) to be first in the diptychs and fortunately, there is no need.
Costa, I hear you. But let’s not forget that the Twelve Apostles had no resources or “sufficient expertise” when they turned the Roman world upside down. Personally, I believe that the future of Orthodoxy may very well be in Africa and that that certain African king who was recently baptized on Mt Athos may be another Constantine or Vladimir. I wouldn’t be surprised if East Asia (specifically China and Korea) may be the gold standard of Orthodoxy at some point.
Africa of course is more indigenous in its growth and that’s thanks to the native bishops there whereas East Asia may be “helped along” in his regard because of a resurgent Russian evangelistic program. Regardless, to God goes all the glory.
George,
In the history of the church there are cases of persons canonized by the Hierarchy and subsequently decanonized because the people did not agree.
Also, there are cases when a person is not canonized by the Hierarchy but the people did their own de-facto “canonization” and the Hierarchy subsequently agreed. This was the case with St.Nektarios of Pentapolis. He was gradually recognized by the people in the 1920-1950s because they witnessed miracles, Cple canonized him decades later and Alexandria accepted him in about 1989 and issued a letter.
Thus, a few conclusions might be drawn:
-the de facto power is with the people, not the Hierarchy
-miracles are a proof
-Alexandria has made a mistake in the past
-there are documents about Lucaris’s protestant bias
A number of good folk can fall into error in some aspect of their theology. But I suppose that at the Last Judgement we will each need to be concerned with our own deeds, rather than asking, “Did Cyril Lukaris make it?”
Indeed. I’m more concerned about myself than I am of Lukaris.
Regardless, I can think of how a certain person thought about ecclesiology at a certain point in history, like overdoing it with icons, certain pietistic practices that were cringe worthy, and how things must have looked to brilliant heterodox thinkers at that time (you know, the old inferiority complex) but at the end of the day, isn’t that how all heresies start? (That’s just a general question to nobody in particular but to all of us.)
The future of Orthodoxy is everywhere. With regards to that king, he is not a king in the western sense, a lot of kings in African countries are heads of small groups of people and normally own lots of land, but aren’t really in charge of anything, they’re pretty much figureheads, they don’t make any decisions with regards to the ruling of countries or even cities. These kings are simply just keeping a tradition that’s been passed down. So I don’t think they have the potential of a Constantine or a Vladimir.
Most of the native bishops are fairly new and they are fantastic in their work and knowledge, they are a big reason for the growth in indigenous converts, however most of the work was planted and performed by Greek missionary priests and bishops, you’ll find the likes of Metropolitan Makarios of Kenya and Metropolitan Meletios of Katanga and many others, fluent in the local dialects. The Patriarchate of Alexandria as a whole, is very much energised and supported by the Church of Greece.
Glory to God for all things!
Indeed. Also much credit must be given to Arb Anastasios of Albania who I believe was a fervent missionary in Africa.
George yes Kyrill lukaris of 17th was a party who brought out a lutheran influenced statement of belief. I know he denied veneration of icons. I am not sure without checking if he denied the liturgy etc.
In his defense he probably saw much superstition in religion and was reacting accordingly.
However this does not take away from fact he was a semi -lutheran. He was murderd by turks but not for being Christian per se.
Arb is Arbitrageur. Archbisho is Abp
George Michalopulos (May 31, 2019 at 8:07 am) says:
That’s the key though, isn’t it Niko? The production of saints.
You know, that’s one major brief I have against Protestantism –where are the saints? Luther, Calvin, Zwingli? SNIP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, Fox’s ‘Book of Martyrs’ describes in great detail how British Protestants suffered under Roman Catholic persecution. So there is a little bit out there.
One of my brothers married a Lutheran girl. In a conversation about such things, I happened to mention ‘Saint Martin Luther’. She immediately shot back ‘We don’t think that Martin Luther is a saint!’
To which I replied ‘I rest my case.’
LOL!
Very true George. And re Constantinople, i think big difference between it up to 1922/3 when it was a normal church full of people and churches etc. Then it had a full life and martyrs also. After the catastrophe it has sadly declined into what we have today.
There is a little known point that relevant to greek immigration to USA. The Mass entry of refugees into Greece from Asia minor actually brought a higher level of spirituality than was common in Greece itself at that time. They also stopped the emerging western trend in worship ( harmonium, harmonium western sakallarides melody choir) and lutheran moralistic thinking as illustrated by Zoe organization movememt of 1920s onwards. But it was this westernized greek Orthodoxy, anti monastic, that went to USA in main. Sakallarides was seen as the tradition sure H that i am sure, I know, that many elderly Greeks see removed organ as ‘ destroying tradition’
As someone with a PhD who has worked at major private and public universities, my view is that, in the United States at least, there is no worse class of people to draw on for Priests and Bishops than academics. If we need people with some education probably our best bet would be sending pious members of the working class elite (police detectives, electricians, etc.) to seminary. Maybe doctors or engineers. Monks when we can get them of course. Not academics.
Johannes, I must completely agree with you.
Still, the problem is deeper with Cpole isn’t it? He has no actual geographic patriarchate except for the Anglosphere, which he must share with every other jurisdiction. Therefore in order to keep the fantasy of The New Rome alive, the Phanar has to “pad the books” with bishops and give them fictional dioceses. The only type of men who such a prospect would be attractive to would be academics and bachelors (who pretty much live a fantasy life anyway).
Right. Sort of like the young adults who spend their lives in their parents’ basement poisoning their souls with video games and pornography, except on our dime and to the destruction of the faithful besides themselves.
One of the commenters on here (sorry for forgetting you, brother) posted several times about ‘dead patriarchates’ causing huge problems in the Church when they stagger on zombie-like to eventually be filled with spirits more wicked than the ones that were cast out when they were consecrated in the first place. This was true in Rome in the 10th century and it seems increasingly true of Constantinople in the 20th and 21st.
I keep thinking of our Lord’s admonition to ‘flee to the mountains’ (that is, among other things, to parishes and monasteries which have thus far escaped the rot, places where the Church yet survives on earth) when we ‘see the abomination of desolation in the holy place’ (that is, Rome, and now apparently many in Constantinople seek to join her, even as Christ made peace between Pilate and Herod in times long past). I also remind myself that hope is a theological virtue beyond all reason, and that the one who perseveres to the end shall be saved.
We can pray for these people and speak the truth in love, while remembering to accept correction in all humility. What else?
Very well put Johannes.
Pray for them, and check them too.
Both, Love AND Truth.
George exactly and these bachelors, well if rumour be true, they getting sexual experience at least , but they basing this’ first above equal rubbish’ on dead history that not reality any more. THIS IS DELUSIONAL, CORRODING. The Vatican same problem but not our worry is it?
They are the emperor with no clothes, but we lacking a child to call him out.
Dear J-RO
“I am hopeful that Archbishop Elpidophoros will emerge as his own man; and to the extent he can, bring a semblance of order and discipline to the chaotic situation awaiting him.”
He will be a fit as far as your comment “Collegiality, you say? Not in the Greek lexicon.” as the entire Orthodox world is experiencing these days, you know (for dismissal) purposes) the skills of Elpidophoros, his heretical and schismatic first without equals presentations and fruits.
Be advised that the Church has a rather long history of collegiality and remains intact with love and faith in Christ by many of our Orthodox Bishops, Priests and faithful.
Matthew,
My comment about “collegiality” not being a Greek word (i.e. notion) was in response to George, who called attention to the importance of same within the Orthodox world. I was implying, perhaps not so subtlety, that collegiality was not in the lexicon of the GOA in its relationship to sister jurisdictions in America.
Anon 2
Please accept my sincere thanks for the warmth of your response. It may surprise you to know that I understand and agree with much of what you say, not the least of which is that the impetus for a unified Orthodox Church in America would wane if Elpidophoros, as archbishop of the GOA, is the egregious mistake you and others imply. That said, I’ll continue to pray, wait and see.
The glass is always half full I suppose. (It certainly beats despair.)
The glass is always half full I suppose. (It certainly beats despair.)
New word for the lexicon. Phanarite. An egotistical person with a myopic perspective while exhibiting arrogance and insensitivity to the ethical principles of civility and justice thereby creating turmoil and unnecessary stress
OK, this is not a new word. It’s a new name: Archbishop Epidural of Bursitis I cannot remember his name! I am so bad when it comes to Greek names.
Lol!
two of my goa clergy friends use the moniker archbishop elvis
RJ, have they left the building yet?
George,
I just saw this about the acronym “lol”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up1M_rOnbvQ&app=desktop
Gail too many epidurals can cause bone to degenerste more. Needs judicial careful use.
And for yet another from the Oxford English Dictionary…
1911 E. Pears Turkey & its People vii. 118 The patriarch of Constantinople..resides at the Phanar, a district in Constantinople… As there was much intrigue and bribery..under the sultans, Phanariot came to be a synonym for a man of unscrupulous political intrigue. ?
It’s interesting that protestants seem to now utilize in worship concepts and ritualism that in the Reformation caused them to go berserk. I recall at Easter time seeing a large Cross covered in flowers outside a uk Congregational church. There was a time when this would have been condemed as idolatry as they put Crossed on bonfires . At any death today ,candles,flowers and photos appear, all ‘iconic’ actions even by secularists. Protestants often ask me to pray in a memorial for their deceased, even if they can’t explain in theological terms.
It would seem that this iconoclasm goes against deepest nature. Even in Islam, Shia variety, there are saints and their pictures. Indeed this was probably the iranian, Christian, zoastrian influenced way, of striking a difference between them and the arab sunnis.
Bekhtasi islam, which attracted and had in it, many Balkan converts to islam, was centred on saints ‘ Tombs and their prayers. All ANATHEMA to sunni islam.
How much money does the EP get from the US annually? It’s too much whatever the amount, but anyone know the figure?
The antiochians list it and what each hierarch’s pay is in the biannual report given at the. The hierarchical pay is much less than what my local goa priest makes
But that is base pay. Just like food servers who get a base pay. What about all the cash that I see passing hands or the fact that if the bishop visits the parish pays him a thousand dollars. Also as a celibate monk living in a church provided dwelling how much money does he really need
Well, at least one OCA bishop doesn’t take a nickel for pastoral visits. I know because he visited our church not long ago. For all the talk about money grubbing priests and bishops, I feel this should he known. I won’t embarrass the hierarch by revealing his name.
God grant him many years, Fr.
I agree. We have found one honest man God bless him
The bishop says that it is his duty to visit his parishes as Archpastor. He recieves room, board, and salary. According to our Dean, the bishop says that is sufficient. I do worry about who might replace him, should he repose or retire.
George and others would be more in the know than I, but I understand Archbishop Dimitri put much or maybe most of his money back into his cathedral.
I just thought with all the negative talk about bishops, of which I’m guilty of as well, the good examples should be acknowledged.
Dear George,
Is it possible for us Orthodox Christians to learn from some Roman Catholic bishops? It would seem so.
Please take Don Helder Camara; he was known as the “Bishop of the slums” in Brazil. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by the American Friends Society.
As an active participant of Vatican 2, he challenged his brother bishops to “live lives of evangelical poverty without honorific titles, privileges, and worldly ostentation.” The hierarchs of the Orthodox Church would do well to heed his Godly wisdom. These are the things I’ve been criticizing about the clergy of the Orthodox Church.
If I’m not mistaken, I believe that the late saint Kay Valone was also very critical of the clergy.
Costa, it is “we” Othrodox Christians. Grammer, don’t you know. Other than that, I agree
“We” and “us” are pronouns. They stand in for nouns, one serving as a subject and one as an object. For example, “We ate the pizza that he gave us.”
Sometimes, for emphasis or clarity, a pronoun is followed by the noun (including adjective) which it represents. In figuring out which form is proper in a particular sentence, I find it helpful to drop out the noun and see how the pronoun works when it is by itself.
As an illustration, which version sounds better when “Orthodox Christians” is dropped out?
Is it possible for us . . . to learn from some Roman Catholic bishops?
Is it possible for we . . . to learn from some Roman Catholic bishops?
Michael Bauman (June 4, 2019 at 8:52 pm) says:
“Costa, it is “we” Othrodox Christians. Grammer, don’t you know.’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not in this case (no pun intended).
Here, ‘us’ is properly in the objective case because it is the object of the preposition ‘for’.’ In fact, the entire remainder of the sentence is actually the object of that preposition.
To see the mechanics of this, let’s recast the sentence in the singular:
‘Is it possible for me, an Orthodox Christian, to learn from some Roman Catholic bishops?’
Just as in the original phrasing, ‘Orthodox Christian’ is in the objective case, but since it ‘feels’ to some ears like the subject of the verb ‘learn’, here is a tendency to regard the whole thing as nominative, but it isn’t. In fact, leaving out that phrase and writing ‘Is it possible for me to learn from some Roman Catholic bishops?’ illustrates the grammar even more clearly.
The intervening phrase necessitated by shifting to the singular form doesn’t affect the grammatical principle at work here, but I think that the original question is out of focus.
Whatever we Orthodox Christians might learn from the behavior of heterodox Christian bishops, most of us aren’t bishops, so our observations would largely be moot. Perhaps it would be better to ask if Orthodox Christian bishops might have something to learn from the example of their non-orthodox counterparts.
O’Throw Ducks?
My NYC Byzantine prep school taught us never to use pronouns about our elders
Dear in Christ Constantinos,
I echo your sentiments entirely.
In Christ
Father Alban
Thank you very much Father. I deeply appreciate it.
Yes, I believe so. Always have.
Bob I hear talk of 1m dollars!! If so THINK what thst could do to work of church in USA!!
I believe it is in the vicinity of one million dollars annually.
Oh good., well HELL BAD, but just posted that Figure so thanks for what seems confirmation .
AND THANK YOU, Greatly Saddened, for all yr amazing information you post. God bless.
My pleasure.
Thanks again. You do the hard work!!
The bishop says that it is his duty to visit his parishes as Archpastor. He recieves room, board, and salary. According to our Dean, the bishop says that is sufficient. I do worry about who might replace him, should he repose or retire.
George and others would be more in the know than I, but I understand Archbishop Dimitri put much or maybe most of his money back into his cathedral.
I just thought with all the negative talk about bishops, of which I’m guilty of as well, the good examples should be acknowledged.
Absolutely! As for Arb Dmitri of thrice-blessed memory, he did indeed put the majority of his salary back into his cathedral. He was always in fact one of the three top givers to his cathedral.
Yes we need to show respect and acknowledgement of those bishops who live as monks. Bishop Anthony Bloom of blessed memory was another such man who also expected same of clergy. This was the tradition amongst the Poverty stricken Russian clergy in France of the 1920s and 30s that he brought to London. Indeed as a child Bishop Anthony had no settled roof and knew real poverty.
There is an excellent book by Gillan Crow,called ‘ This Holy man’ well worth reading. No hagiography but the facts of this man’ s remarkable life. I count it a blessing and a saving that I experienced a little of what this man preached and did in his Knighbridge London Cathedral. ETERNAL MEMORY..
Also another good and simple man close to his people is the Uk greek cypriot Archbishop, Grigorios, about to be retired.
Lex Lutsos ebbs and flows. He shot his wad and needs to recover his standing. Which he always does a few years later. Bart owes him his job. His first fell out of favor in 1990 with the Pelham Esplanade and Barfantony Travelgate scandals, then he greased the skids, getting Bart to encourage Ligonier, while using it to undo Jake. Jimmy didn’t trust him, which is why things went well the first ten years, then Lex weaseled his way back in. As for Hamptons, Lex’s house is in the servant part of town, near the tracks, Olde Town Crossing – Soros’ house is on Olde Towne Lane a mile away, on the ocean. But Lex got himself posted as Hamptons pastor for a reason. Lex learned his trade in the offices of Chicago’s Mayor Daley
Neko. They move one to worship and near to God, do they not? Do any of them believe in God outside, as i said,Tolstoy’s novel and prison priest?
The Enthronement Luncheon should have been held in a tent al fresco in front of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America Church & Shrine of St. Nicholas at the World Trade Center.
friend they are ao without Insight to not even see the hypocrisy and double faced words of their actions.
Theirs is the Gospel of the first shall be first and, ” CARRY YR CROSS?” , NOT FOR YOU, YOU LOSER ‘ .
Any of you members of this adrift business should worry about yr kids if they still are.
I just fail to understand how someone of the ilk of karloutsos has not been unfrocked. What gets me is the big 19c dog collars he wears. Not seen a western cleric in one of those since seeing victorian photos. How tbese guys love their robes and all!!
Until their is a cleansing of the stable, nothing will change in this charade.
But then you barbarians in barbarian lands, should know yr place . Keep sending the cash. That is yr prime duty.
As for Elpidophoros. Read his speech at Holy Cross. Yes very good diagnosis, could have written it myself re faux westernization etc BUT THE therapy he brings is what keeps you in this mess in first place.
However as long as you all complicit in keeping this show on the road??