So here we go. We may not be able to stop this train. . .
Pope Francis meets with Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew
Pope Francis meets with the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew on Tuesday, with the two religious leaders having lunch together at the Casa Santa Marta.
By Vatican News
The meeting between the Pope and the Patriarch was held in “a fraternal atmosphere”, according to a communiqué from the Holy See Press Office.
Pope Francis and Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople also had lunch together at the Casa Santa Marta with their respective delegations.
The Council of Cardinals is holding its 31st meeting, and the Secretary, Bishop Marcello Semeraro, invited the Patriarch to greet participants ahead of his encounter with the Pope.
In his brief remarks, Patriarch Bartholomew talked about the value placed on synodality in the Eastern Orthodox Church.
He then assured the Cardinals of his prayers.
Listen to Bart, Come to pope now.
“Patriarch Bartholomew talked about the value placed on synodality in the Eastern Orthodox Church”
L
O
L
Yeah, I couldn’t help but guffaw at that one. Luckily, I wasn’t drinking anything at the time.
Synodality is important until the First Chair wants something, then his word is law.
But what happens if Bart communes with Frank, and Frank becomes the First Chair, and then Frank wants Bart to do something? Will Bart dutifully submit?
(Probably so; he has had a lot of practice submitting to the Turks and the State Department.)
Not only did Black Bart meet with Franke. He also met with that pig Sviatoslav of the Greek Catholics, the die hard enemy of all Orthodox.
Get this George, Bart is selling us down the river.
During his conversation with His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew, His Beatitude Sviatoslav expressed his hopes and wishes that “with the granting of autocephaly, the ecumenical dialogue with the Orthodox Church of Ukraine will be raised to a qualitatively higher level. It is from this historic moment that in the ecumenical dialogue for the UGCC, the main interlocutor is no longer the Russian Orthodox Church, but the local Orthodox Church in Ukraine.”
http://news.ugcc.ua/news/u_vatikan%D1%96_v%D1%96dbulasya_zustr%D1%96ch_blazhenn%D1%96shogo_svyatoslava_z_svyat%D1%96shim_patr%D1%96arhom_varfolom%D1%96iem_87340.html
I was taken aback as to why synodality was emphasized in Patriarch Bartholomew’s talk. So I did a little search and came across this.
https://cruxnow.com/interviews/2019/01/28/theologian-says-church-needs-both-synodality-and-primacy-
Very interesting.
In other words, it needs one or the other depending on whether the primate can take the heat or not.
That wasn’t my impression. So if Patriarch Bartholomew is emphasizing primacy to the Orthodox, and conciliarity to the Catholics, and Catholic theologians are talking about the need for both, then I think both the Pope and the Patriarch are trying to pave the way for a union.
Well, yes. But, did we see any “conciliarity” in the recent Ukraine debacle? Going further, is there any conciliarity inside the Ukraine regarding the recent meeting between the EP and the Uniate primate? I imagine that Dumenko feels like a chump right about now.
“Restoring Union” is a false goal, an absolute man-made false solution to a spiritual problem. I have never yet seen any kind of “union” proposal that involves any sort of repentance from anybody. Every one I have ever seen is simply a way of moving the deck chairs on the Titanic so that we feel more comfortable as the ship sinks. The key component is that no one has to change in any substantial way. If there is any change required of both sides (as with the Non-Chalcedonian communities) “union” does not occur.
That is true with so-called re-union with Rome or “Orthodox Unity” here.
For true union (not re-union as that too is a false concept) to occur between Rome and the Orthodox Church requires a lot more on the part of Rome and her people than we think it does on our part, but I am not sure that is true. Shoot all we have to do is give a pinch of incense at the Roman Throne of St. Peter acknowledging the primacy of the Pope in all things spiritual, we don’t even have to believe it, nothing else changes. Wala–we are reunified!
Read the story of the martyrdom of the Great Martyr George recently?
Read Genesis 3:4 lately?
We have to STOP trying to fix things. Trying to put new wine in old wineskins. I am no good at it in any case. When I try things get more muddled. Two big delusions about fixing things: 1. We think we know what needs to be fixed; 2. We think we are capable of doing it. Both are lies. God cannot even “fix” things, He can however heal, restore and make whole and new through the Cross (how’s that for a ‘fix’).
Even if the Church were ours (It–Is–Not), it is not a business to be run in the most efficient way giving the least offense to the smallest amount of people while letting them think their souls are not in jeopardy so we can be profitable, powerful and pretty and get invited to the best parties.
Hey guess what: The Greeks are crazy, the Russians and other Slavs are morose, Lebanese too worldly, Americans are uncouth barbarians unworthy of consideration, we are all corrupt and selfish—and your mother wears combat boots. So, let’s get moving on the project of “Orthodox Unity” shall we so that we can become crazy, morose, worldly barbarians that are absolutely irrelevant, perfect to be spit out of the mouth of our Savior. Yea, that sounds peachy. Or better yet, give it all to Papa and let him sort it out.
OR, we can actually personally and corporately repent, give alms, attend the sacraments, pray, fast with a radical trust in God while we love our enemies even as they kill us…. Never seen that proposed in any “union” proposal, has anyone else?
Well said, sir.
Thank you, Michael!
Isn’t it nice that no living person needs to pay the least attention to anything Bartholomew says or writes? The thoughts of ten names taken at random from the Istanbul phone book have every bit as much weight as his. Think of how much significance he has had on any person in America over the last ten years. And continue to ignore him. If you haven’t til now, start.
Mama(mother church) meets with Papa
Is the divorce over?
Mama has to repent before papa for the divorce she caused, since papa is infallible.
‘In his brief remarks, Patriarch Bartholomew talked about the value placed on synodality in the Eastern Orthodox Church.’ The briefest of brief remarks. The two leaders then had a lengthy discussion on how to wield absolute authority over their flocks. Patriarch Bartholomew then told the Pope that he could get him a really good deal on a pair of cuff links.
I love that remark! Bravo!
Notice the cuff links ol’ Bart is rocking in the photo from the Vatican News article. Oh man, I never get tired of their comedy.
I don’t have the skill to produce memes but that photo needs a caption: “Now how many pairs of cuff-links are we talking about here?”
Constantinople is not even pretending anymore about its intention for reunification with Rome & use the schismatic OCU as the first step with the UGCC. Here’s just a list of articles that have come out just since the beginning of September (not in any order):
PAT. BARTHOLOMEW DISCUSSES ECUMENICAL RELATIONS IN VATICAN WITH UKRAINIAN UNIATE LEADER
OCU HEAD EPIPHANY CALLS FOR ORTHODOX TO WORK WITH UNIATES ON “NATIONAL INTERESTS”
Poroshenko in the Roman Cathedral of the UGCC: It is very important to unite our Churches
Pope – to Patriarch Bartholomew: Communion of the Churches requires courageous steps
Epiphanius: The key to the unification of the PCU and the UGCC lies in Rome and Constantinople
Sofia is neither Orthodox nor Catholic, it is common, – the press service of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Svyatoslav Shevchuk: Poles should not think that Ukrainians are a foreign nation
Re: Pope and Patriarch. “Like seeks out like”