St Paul commands us to separate ourselves from heretics, saying: “A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself (Tit. 3:10-11).
Before I begin, I’d like to point you to our good friend, Nick Stamatakis’ excellent blog, Helleniscope, that broke this story.
God bless them, they work overtime trying to keep up with the antics of the Phanar, especially Archbishop Elpidophoros, the GOA’s present primate (for now).
Elpi has seemingly stepped into it again and this time in a big way: https://www.helleniscope.com/2022/07/10/has-ab-elpidophoros-just-legitimized-gay-marriage-through-baptism/
I wonder if this makes The Orthodox Observer?
It has become clear that NOTHING is going to stop Elpidophoros or Bartholomew at this point.
A few years ago we wrote something to the effect that certain bishops in the GOA instructed their priests to commune homosexual couples who are legally “married.” This was in the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s Obergefell decision which legalized this practice.
This was also about the same time The Pappas Post announced that Archbishop Elpidophoros of America, head of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, declared in a public forum that Christians who have been married in the Orthodox Church, where the spouse was not chrismated, may receive Holy Communion.
The impetus behind this was to normalize “gay marriage” in the Orthodox Church; a temporary “workaround,” so to speak, obviating the need for a formal liturgical rite.
This was undoubtedly the same thinking that led to the baptism of the children of a homosexual couple in the hope that it would normalize homosexuality through the “family” in the eyes of the Church.
Needless to say, this is yet another maladroit action by Archbishop Elpidophoros, one destined to blow up in his face. Whether the Ecumenical Patriarch suffers collateral damage remains to be seen. (As for the Church of Greece allowing it to happen in one of their parishes, this event begs certain questions as well.)
In light of the many scandals that have attended the archpastorate of Elpidophoros, we can now add this to the list. But where does this leave the good people of the GOA?
Many have written letters and others have screamed at the top of their lungs, all to no avail. The GOA has unwittingly aligned itself with the globalists who have deceptively convinced Bartholomew that he is relevant. Bartholomew doesn’t seem to realize that the powers-that-be are desperate at this point and will use any means necessary to meet their objectives. Because they are losing control of the narrative in the political sphere, they will turn anyone they can get.
In reality, Bartholomew is no more relevant than last night’s dinner. They’ve already compromised the Catholic Church through Pope Francis and now they are after the Orthodox Church. Like what happened to the Georgia Guidestones, they want to knock down the pillars of the Church in an attempt to knock down the very capstone of our faith.
After all, they can’t have the Church interfering with their ultimate plan –which has nothing at all to do with global warming. Global warming is just a diversionary tactic to keep people from paying attention to their true objective of running the world minus a few billion people.
Three things are clear: (1) Bartholomew is going to continue down the path to “reform” the Church, (2) Elpidophoros is totally devoted to Bartholomew, which is why he was chosen for this assignment, (3) clutching our collective pearls has not changed anything, nor will it change anything, and (4) the GOA is in so deep, they can’t rely on the authorities to help them out of this.
Consider this: If Elpidophoros just concluded the Clergy-Laity Congress on Thursday, that would mean the very next day, he boarded a plane to Greece, to conduct the rite of baptism for the two children of an American homosexual couple. Anybody who knows anything about travel, lodging, and baptisms knows that this was not an impromptu event. Baptisms require planning. Relatives have to be there to attend the joyous event, followed by (in this case, expensive) receptions to celebrate the blessed event.
What I am saying is that this entire affair was planned. Why was this baptism not held in California, where the couple resides, or in Chicago, where the well-heeled grandparents of one of the “husbands” reside?
In addition, why wasn’t the service conducted by a simple parish priest? By what necessity did it require the primate of the most prestigious eparchy of Constantinople to perform this rite?*
I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest –nay assert–that the archbishop had the blessing of Patriarch Bartholomew to do so. At the very least, this was a marker that Istanbul laid down: not only are they on board with “gay marriage” but they are confident that they have the backing of the globalists to go ahead and cross this Rubicon.
Of this, I am entirely certain.
Just like Antifa, which tore down our statues in order to erase our history unless Bartholomew and Elpidophoros are stopped they will tear down 2000 years of Christianity. Make no mistake, the Orthodox Church is God’s beacon on the hill; number one on the secularists’ hit list.
The Greek Americans in the GOA have suffered a number of indignities:
- Their charter was scrapped, although they continue to accept donations for a now-defunct 501c3. This places the GOA in criminal peril. Elpidophoros on the other hand can hightail it back to Turkey when the Feds catch up to them leaving the local bishops holding the bag.
- The pensions of their priests have been eliminated and they are now forced to retire at 75.
- Substantial amounts of money continue to disappear. Every year, the laity has found irregularities in the finance department, and every year a new plan has been implemented to have tighter control over the books, which are largely ignored. This year they didn’t even give the Clergy-Laity Conference financial statements, which begs the question why they bother to have conferences in the first place. If the laity has no visibility, they can have no input.
- It is abundantly clear to all that the aesthetic monstrosity known as St Nicholas “Shrine” was a horribly mismanaged boondoggle, whose primary purpose was to serve as a slush fund for various purposes. One of them was to facilitate the State Department’s plans for the Orange Revolution in Ukraine.
No doubt there are other serious concerns that will come out in due time as well.
What are the consequences of Istanbul’s slavish devotion to the globalists tearing Orthodoxy to pieces?
For one, they’ve alienated the greater part of the Church –not just Russia–by moving into Russian territory and using it to bring in defrocked priests and bishops, who remain unordained to this day because they hate the canonical Church. The consequences of the Phanar’s actions were to inaugurate a bloody fratricidal conflict in Ukraine.
This, of course, was also the desire of the globalists, but should never have been countenanced by the Church of Christ.
As for America, they are using their newfound powers to elevate a defrocked archimandrite to the episcopate. The creation of the so-called Slavic Vicariate is merely another provocation to Moscow, no doubt engendered because ROCOR is taking in Greek priests without a formal release.
The local Churches have complained. The jurisdictions in America have complained. Many in the GOA have complained. But the end result is always the same: they keep going down the primrose path of Western entitlement. First, by ignoring the canons, and now the theology of the Church. Their objectives are pretty clear.
At this point, Greek-Americans in the GOA have only three options: (1) demand the removal of the current archbishop and a repudiation of the secularist agenda, (2) demand that their priests and bishops stop commemorating the hierarchs that have committed these atrocities, or (3), leave the GOA entirely.
And as for the bishops of the Episcopal Assembly who penned that letter of admonition to Archbishop Elpidophoros, regarding the impending elevation of Belya to the episcopate, the ball is in their court.
I for one, do not see how they can back down at this point.
Lord have mercy.
*Let it be said that we will not countenance any emotional talk about innocent babies at this point. I get it, the children in question are innocent. The question is whether these children will be brought up in a Christian home. If anyone believes that two homosexuals (or lesbians) can maintain a Christian home, then I will ask you whether a polygamous or polyamorous conglomeration can be “Christian” as well.
“Through the back door” – was this pun intentional?
Fr. Josiah Trenham once said there are metaphorical ways abortion and homosexual intimacy are related.
Perhaps you and others would appreciate this video that I have made in an attempt to expose the not-so-secret LGBT agenda in the academic elite of western Orthodoxy.
https://youtu.be/_SX4uVVLsLs
Loved it!
Your video sounds interesting but YT says you already took it down (I am commenting just a few hours after you posted). Do you have it up somewhere else?
I imagine there’s a backlash from Fordham. Glad I got to see it was taken down.
Now I’m interested. Get it back online and share it again!
I can’t. 🙁 The video is gone.
Perhaps folks here would appreciate this video that I have made in an attempt to document the not-so-secret LGBT agenda in the academic elites of western Orthodoxy.
https://youtu.be/1EXWIBnMktY
Go there NOW and see this video!
No surprises here. But I am astonished at the brazen arrogance of Papanikolaou and Sr. Vassa. How dare we little people who are not as educated as them high-falutin’ theologians question their heretical proclamations? At one point, those who openly disagree are deemed mentally ill. Shaking. My. Head. the Academic Word Salads? are those akin to how the serpent seduced Eve (and subsequently Adam), convincing them to go against God? How many will be convinced to partake? Surely it is a diet that should be avoided, yet is entrenched. Those theologians that know much more are so much better than the uneducated faithful who stand in the pews. And those that hold the line? Surely they are not enlightened yet! Process theology is at work here (Basically and very simply, We are made in the image of God, we are changing beings, therefore God must be a changing being). This is not the Orthodox Way.
I know!!! Even the smirk on their faces is unbelievably arrogant. Our Holy Fathers would be scandalized. The saddest thing is they know NOTHING about Orthodoxy.
The more latinate the language
with which you are being addressed
the more likely it is the wool
is being pulled over your eyes.
Let him who has ears to hear, hear!
Thank you all for your comments.
Michelle, thank you for your excellent analysis. I do not think that these voices would want to argue for “process theology,” though you could claim that that is what they effectually get by their reasoning. These voices (Fordham, Sister Vassa, Fr Andrew Louth, Gregory Tucker, and more) suggest that the traditional sources are not conclusive with regards to these questions. God hasn’t changed (i.e. Christ, his mercy, etc), but our understanding of human sexuality, ethics, gender, etc has changed. Our understanding of Scripture, the Canons, the witness of the saints, and more is up for grabs.
But again, I greatly appreciate your comments, Michelle. These academic elites look down on the faithful. They are sponsored and blessed by certain bishops, all of whom want to change the Tradition. No doubt about it. And they are pushing priests through seminaries and academics through PhD programs and helping elevate liberal bishops — all with this and more in mind.
As for the music and periodic interruptions, they are done for specific purposes. My apologies if they are not to your taste or if they are annoying.
We’d love to feature your work as a post, giving you full credit, of course. Interested? We get 15000 unique readers a day who may not see it in the comments. If we make it a post, all of our readers will see it.
It would be good for you to also post this video on Rumble or Odysee or other platform as YouTube will probably take it down. People need to see this and you can direct them to a site that is more secure.
All of the video clips are on YouTube already separately.
I understand that but videos are being taken down from YouTube at an accelerated rate and whole accounts cancelled. Please do not think your video, or any of the original videos, are an exception.
If you want to preserve your work, move a copy to Rumble, Odysee or another platform.
Bravo!!! That video was excellent! Thank you for taking the time to put it together. I love even more those outspoken heroes of our traditional Orthodox dogma, morals, and values. (That Serbian Archbishop’s speech about the pride parade? Amazing.)
Sr. Vassa is no Orthodox monastic. She brings shame to the robes. She wears them when it’s convenient for her to increase her ratings and give warm fuzzies to her koffee-klatch friends. When she posts pictures on her FB page, she is made-up and dressed like everybody else. I have zero respect or interest in anything that comes out of her mouth.
Michelle nails it when she pointed the academic snobbery that drips from the noses of the P.O. gang, the Fordham crew and Vassa Larin. They are interested in one-sided dialogue – hissing with forked tongues.
I saved this to watch later – looks good.
These people are agents of Satan.
When people try so hard to change a moral teaching within the Church, it’s usually to justify their own passions.
What’s with the periodic interruptions
With the trippy music.
I liked it! It was a fun break from the revulsion I felt listening to those pompous academics.
Agreed. I loved it and laughed at those little snippets. Brought out the absurdity. Especially the finale of the outhouses being tossed in the air. That is calling this for what it is!
“…the children of a homosexual couple”.
The chief thing with homosexual couples is (of course)
that they do not (and cannot) have children,
no matter what the liberals may say…
Good point.
God help those little kids.
On the plus side, they were baptized Orthodox. Who knows, maybe they’ll become saints as a result.
If they do [become saints], it will be because God undid this unholy mess.
Indeed. Nobody here is condemning the innocent children. Instead, we are questioning the judgment of the Arb. Also we are calling to mind that such children are “designer children,” pro-created for the amusement of adult adolescents.
There is a normal, God-given way to conceive children. Surrogacy is an abomination.
Conceived in a lab with the bodies of women then used to carry them just to give them up at birth. It’s basically human trafficking of babies. And it’s a shame the Church doesn’t speak out against this enough and gives excuses to those who are infertile. As if that justifies the grave damage done. How many siblings do these two baptized children have in a freezer somewhere? Are they being saved for later or just tossed aside like garbage.
Irene, I praise God that you wrote this comment. This is an issue that stirs my heart for deeply personal reasons. It is my fervent prayer that the “infertility medical complex” gets taken out with the overturning of Roe v. Wade!
I have been infertile since a year after marriage, and it was emotionally devastating. However, it was not nearly so devastating as when several of my Orthodox sisters in Christ chose to go through infertility treatments with the blessing of our parish priest. Let me explain why. My husband and I fully went thru the first stage of the IVF process, too, but were shocked at what actually happens. Absolutely shocked. Beyond the whole egg or sperm donation bank and fertilization in test tube thing, the abortions done during IVF is rarely discussed outside the IVF clinics and HMOs and hospitals that do the procedures. The fact is that each round of fertilization treatments aims for 10 embryos, of which 4-6 are implanted, and then 2-3 of those are aborted in the womb a few weeks after implantation. It’s clinically called “selective termination” and the purpose of aborting these extra embryos is to give room for the remaining 1-3 to grow. So for each IVF treatment round, we would have had to pay for freezer storage of the non-implanted embryos still in test tubes (2-4 embryos depending on their viability) for 2 years after which they would be discarded/incinerated. We also would have had to sign permission over for the abortion (selective termination) of all implanted embryos in my womb other than 1-3 embryos. (Many couples go thru multiple rounds, so these numbers can add up over the course of 1-3 years of trying IVF.) We tried fighting against this industry standard, saying we would pay for just one egg to be fertilized and implanted at a time, but due to the high level of test tube embryo non-viability, clinics and doctors will not do that. Abortion is woven into every aspect of IVF, regardless of what type of facility, large or small, public or private, does the IVF.
Why do I share this personal story? It’s of course not in judgement of my Orthodox sisters who have chosen this path. It’s because the Orthodox church itself does not understood this topic, or parish priests would not be giving their blessings for IVF and the abortions that go along with creating embryos outside the womb. My prayer is that these infertility treatment centers will be closed with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, that IVF “selective terminations” will be exposed for the abortions they are, and there will be no more destruction of the tens of thousands (likely more) of frozen embryos in cold storage around the country.
Believe me, I understand the pain of being a childless woman in an Orthodox parish surrounded by families. I understand why many women think IVF will ease that pain, but it only creates more tragedy for them with the sin of entering into the abortion of the “extra” implanted embryos and the freezing then incineration of non-implanted embryos. It is a deception of woman of the most evil kind. We can choose life, and grow our families in other ways, and devote our lives to being mothers of the Church. For many of us, that is our God-given calling.
I’m sorry this was so long, but this topic is never brought up and definitely needs to be addressed in the pro-life, anti-abortion movement. So thank you, Irene, for your impassioned comment! Please pray for me, a sinner.
I had no idea. Thank you for sharing, Christine, and thank you for doing it in a non-judgemental way.
There are so many built-in “gotcha ya(s)” in life. For example, “You can have this job BUT you need to be quadrupled vaccinated with the flu vaccine, double tested for TB (in case the first test is wrong), produce blood to have all your titers measured, produce urine for a drug test, and have a doctor certify that you can bend to the floor.” It took me two days, at an across town clinic, to meet these requirements for my last contractor job which was only 6 months. As a “bonus,” they encouraged me to participate in some studies to determine if I was at higher risk for Alzheimer’s “just because”.
Christine, you have opened my eyes.
I had no idea IVF involved serial killing.
I vaguely ‘knew’ several eggs were fertilised,
but I never joined up the dots for the full picture.
Truly Satan works in incremental ways…
Christine, thank you for sharing this. I would hope that any married Orthodox women who are infertile or unable to have children would pray to St. Anna and ask for children. I have heard of many miraculous births as a result of St. Anna’s prayers.
O Lord, if we did not have Thy saints as our intercessors, and Thy gracious loving-kindness which shows mercy on us, how should we presume, O Savior, to sing unto Thee?
Sts. Joachim and Anna, St. Elizabeth, Sts. Peter and Fevronia, St. Nicholas, St. Irene, our beloved Theotokos, and many more listen attentively and intercede for the prayers of couples trying to conceive. As our planet becomes more polluted with chemicals, poisons, and pharmaceuticals, and as people are waiting longer to get married, our infertility rates are skyrocketing. One in four women have difficulty getting pregnant or carrying a child to term, and one in five are unable to get pregnant after a year of trying (CDC data). So the ethics of IVF, surrogacy, etc., needs to be taken on by the Church head-on with love and compassion. Women need true, moral guidance on this issue for the very salvation of their souls.
Another horror of this process not mentioned are frozen embryos stored, thus suspended in time, indefinitely. The ethical dilemmas surrounding those frozen stored embryos boggle my mind and pain my heart.
I do pity the children hijacked in this. And Elpi is Anathema, Anathema, Anathema.
The GOA parishes and clergy can anathematize him and simply refuse to fund the Archdiocese. That is a step sure to draw notice. The hierarchy cannot do anything; the parishes should find an Orthodox Church to join. It looks like it is truly Istanbul, not Constantinople.
If this receives no rebuke from the Metropolitans or monasteries then that tells you everything you need to know. If they are that afraid to stand up to him after this then I think it’s time to kindly leave, even the monasteries.
Years ago and far away in another country, a parish was having difficulties with their priest. So they organized a prayer chain consisting of members who would arise shortly before 6am and pray. Their prayer :
Dear God, please either convert this fellow or remove him from this situation. Thank you.
Perhaps this is a good example of allowing God to handle the situation, not us.
Even more years ago and farther away, the following was said about religious leaders such as this “…Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.”
So, are you insinuating that we are Pharisees for opposing this?
The only hypocrite here is Elpi, and maybe you if you claim to be Orthodox and support this nonsense.
Directed to me, Basil? Oh heavens, clearly I needed to be more specific.
My comment was directed specifically towards Elpi as a counter statement to Lina who appears to prefer we stay quiet on such a blatant offense as Elpi’s latest folly.
I do not attend a GOA church but if I did, I’d have made a beeline for the exit long before this latest travesty.
Thanks for clearing that up – you can understand the concern, as ‘Pharisee’ is so often sued by the renovationists to attack us normal Orthodox.
I read it as a criticism of Abp Elpi,
for it was he who ‘travelled over land and sea’.
My spiritual father taught me long ago to pray for those with whom we have difficulty, “Lord grant your peace and love to …” I was clearly directed that a “prayer” such as stated above is judgmental, and when we pray for another, there is no place for judgment. And, yes, in many states, gay couples can legally be parents of children, whether or not you agree with that.
And yet, Father, you judge us all the time for trying to uphold the teachings of the Church. Frankly, you don’t know us well enough to judge us. If you did, you would KNOW our hearts break for those children, and even for their guardians.
No, it is one of you, one of the clergy, we blame for giving away something that is not his to give.
The Church is very clear about the necessity of following the Church’s teaching. 2000 years of history tell us that homosexuality is not the path to salvation. By giving something like this to a child, you’re practically guaranteeing they will struggle as they are being taught how to walk down the wrong path: “Yes, isn’t it wonderful what our money can buy! We want the (false) piety that comes with being in the Church but we don’t necessarily believe in its teaching. That’s OK, though. You don’t have to believe it either.”
You don’t think we pray for these children?! Of course, we do! And to whom does God listen? I am told He listens to the prayers of the righteous, those who openly and consistently defend His teachings revealed to the Church and by the Church.
It is your prayers that are consistently rooted in judgment. When have you not come here to wag your finger at us? Take that finger of yours and turn it around. Start doing what your spiritual father told you to do, as he must have seen something specifically within you that needs to be changed. Do what he told you to do. Pray for us, for example; the people you consistently have trouble with.
Know what I pray? That God, Himself, will intervene in these children’s lives and allow them to see the lies they are being taught by their guardians. I pray the pain they will endure will not be too much to bear. If they grow to love the Church, it’s going to hurt them all over again to see their baptism for what it is: A progressive move to change the Church where they were merely props.
I was like these children born into a family with money who never stepped foot in a church. But my “baptism” in the Episcopal Church was a very big deal. It was front, and center, in the society pages in San Diego. God intervened on my behalf when I was as young as these children. I went to church with neighbors and was confirmed and married in the Episcopal Church. I later found the Orthodox Church.
This is what I pray for these children.
God willing, some good priest will bless them with the Spirit and not with money. For all this was, was a show of wealth and entitlement, with pretty words and lofty goals. I know all about this and these children deserve better.
So there is no judgment against these innocent children. Our prayers are for their well-being. The same holds true for their guardians. May they change direction and begin walking down the right path.
There is, however, judgment of Elpi; the bishop who once again pushed the Church’s teachings aside to make room for a political agenda that is “locked and loaded” to thwart the underpinnings of the Church.
Better get on the right side of this, Father. God is watching.
It’s a mighty long fall off that high perch you are on Gail…..
And who do you think put me on this “perch,” as you call it? Do you think I did this by my own power?! Not even close! If I fall down it will have been worth the ride.
Saunca, if you have this much hatred for what I say, as you indicate every time you comment, our blog is a dangerous place for you to be.
1500 people read this blog every day and they have no compunction against pointing out where we’re wrong both privately and publically. It doesn’t have to be your job.
For your own sake, let it go. I worry that if you continue to discount everything I say and it will hurt you. Our discusion on the vaccines is a great example.
If I may add something to this conversation, why is it that liberals (or those who don’t agree with the Church’s tradition) are the ones who feel compelled to judge those who at least are trying to uphold the Church’s position on things?
I see this in the secular sphere as well: for too long those of us (admittedly fallen people) have been bullied into accepting transgressive things as “normal.” In other words, to accept we are forced to call that which is evil “good” and call that which is good, “evil”.
Why the animus towards those who simple want to live their lives as has been normative for 5,000 years? What gives the proglibs the right to upend all that is normative on the one hand while condemning those who have serious questions about such high-handedness?
Church fathers have stated homosexuality is such a tough sin to root out because it is a THREE FOLD sin. 1) Against Chastity 2) Against Nature and 3) Against God’s will for the individual which is either to be married or serve God in Chastity. Understanding this puts homosexuality in perspective.
Gail, if I might add, I’ve seen some of the photos that this couple has put out and, I must say, one of them at least does not strike the pose of a serious parent. At all.
What we have here, brethren, is virtue signaling of the highest magnitude –on the part of all parties involved.
For now, I will not go into the instability that exists within so-called gay marriages. Massive instability.
Pray tell George
I want to hear about this instability ,
Please help counter what we all hear in the media!!
Source: https://www.crisismagazine.com/2018/sex-parenting-child-maltreatment-no-one-mentions
Thank you Basil,
I can see why this would be buried by the main stream media.
Another question that boggles my mind is why any woman agrees to surrogate and surrender her baby to this type of situation. Not a real woman, just a uterus.
Money, virtue signaling, delusion, you name it…
AMEN Gail!!
There remains no excuse, no room for obfuscation of the manifest reality of his apostasy. The entire GOA local synod, as well as the Church of Greece, bear his sin if they remain silent. Moreover, if he is not immediately charged and laicized (and not merely ousted or moved) by Bartholomew and his synod whose interests he is clearly here to serve, there can be no justification for anyone remaining in communion with them.
I am so very sorry that my faithful Greek brethren have been subjected to these charlatans. I love you dearly. But the moment of undeniable truth has arrived. If the above does not occur and you yourseleves individually choose to do nothing (except, perhaps, complain once again to no avail) we cannot share communion. I beg you not to let this happen.
You are the Greek Orthodox Church, inheritors of a long, holy godly tradition. Don’t squander your inheritance!
Amen! Well said.
I dunno. I’m quite sure that over 90% of the GOA faithful have no clue as to what is going on under their noses. Just speaking with the ones that I know, they seem to be living in some kind of bubble…a bubble that makes them impervious to reality. They know that some money is missing from the St. Nicholas Shrine, but are under the impression that contractors made off with the funds. “What…tens of millions are missing? We were told that it was only a minuscule amount that can be covered.” Seriously.
Single people are legally allowed to adopt children also, and there is no prohibition in the Church against baptizing a child that only has one parent, either only a dad, or only a mother. I’ve known more than a few instances of this. This deficiency is made up in baptism by the Orthodox male and female godparents.
The Orthodox Church obviously doesn’t bless or recognize “same-sex marriages” in any way, but it would recognize a child’s legal guardian, even if there’s more than two of them. (Three or four legal guardians sometimes happens.)
Perhaps the single parent or guardian is not even that much of a church-goer. So why the baptism? In that case, it’s probably the grandparents that are pushing for it. That seems to be a valid consideration, and in this particular instance with Archbishop Elpidophorus, it seems that the Orthodox grandparents are the actual driving force behind this baptism. There is a notable Orthodox grandfather and grandmother in the equation here.
Thank you, Joseph, for a rational response.
?
???
These children were born of surrogacy, which the Church rejects.
You are preaching a gospel of false compassion, which is exactly the gospel that ruined the Western denominations as well.
I must agree with you. We first started down the path of toxic femininity back in the 70s and now we are at countenancing evil due to this false compassion.
Yes, exactly, Antiochene Son.
Mother-baby units across the land are filled with data stressing the importance of the mother-baby bond, how to foster it and encourage it, why it is so valuable.
I guess the exception to this rule is surrogacy, where the baby is simply a commodity, an accessory whose value is how much the baby makes the purchasing parents feel better about themselves. Fostering a mother-baby bond is irrelevant and matters not if the baby is sold into surrogacy. The baby is simply a tool for wealthy adults’ pleasure. One could simply ask Anderson Cooper about this one! After all, only wealthy adults engage in the barbaric act of selling babies, or euphemistically called “surrogacy.”
And they call our times “civil” ! Ha ! Our barbaric culture rivals that of Nero.
“Abp” Elpidophoros is and always has been a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Same with “Patr” Bartholomew.
May God have mercy on their souls, as may He have mercy on any and all who justify or support their demonic behavior.
And may anyone with half a brain in his head flee the “Church” of Istanbul and the mainstream GOAA at all costs. That ship sunk a long time ago, and it is now putrid and rotten. So many of us refuse to see this fact or are unable to see it. Don’t know why.
“…only wealthy adults engage in
the barbaric act of selling babies”.
Usually it’s the poor that sell, while the wealthy buy.
Other than that, I agree with your prayer.
Antiochene Son, how many children are born out of wedlock? The Orthodox Church rejects that also, but such circumstances of birth do no preclude a child from being baptized.
In Orthodox infant baptism services, the godparents typically hold the child for the entire service, only handing the baby to the priest for baptism. Only at the end is the baby handed back to the parents.
I personally know of several priest’s daughters who have had children out of wedlock, and those children were baptized. As Orthodox Christians, we don’t believe in abortion as an option, and certainly not because a child would be born out of wedlock.
Look, most kids rebel against their parents anyways. These two newly baptized infants may very well grow up to be conservative Orthodox Christians for all we know.
They do not reject children out of wedlock! They do not reject children, period. Within the Church, there are solutions to these problems. But if a couple has chosen to live a non-Orthodox life, it can’t be overcome. How many godparents do you know who have more influence over a child than the parents?
Please, Joseph, quit trying to win these debates with nonsense. That most kids rebel against their parents is a red herrirng and you know it.
Gail is bang on. Children born out of wedlock is something that can be fixed by the Church. Fornication and illegitimate birth is a natural act, committed illicitly. Marriage can solve this.
Sodomy and surrogate “parenthood” is simply unnatural and cannot be fixed in any way.
Exactly right Basil.
The idea that all sins are absolutely equal is a pernicious one.
You stated “the Church rejects surrogacy”.
So a child born of surrogate mother is unnatural?
Please clarify what you mean. What do you mean by unnatural? Has no soul?
You say the church rejects surrogacy?
Ok,
the Church rejects many things, so what is the consequence of this rejection? Mother is exiled? Child can’t be baptized?
. . .
Surrogacy is “unnatural” in the sense that the Church would like to see a woman, married to a man, carry a child they conceived to term. This is the ideal. But the Church recognizes that we don’t always reach “the ideal,” because, we’re broken. All of us. That’s why the Church is often called a hospital.
The teaching may “reject” this or that, but the Church does not reject people who, in their weakness, do these things.
Of course, a child carried by a surrogate has a soul!
No, the mother of the child is not exiled!
Yes, the child can be baptized!
What usually happens in cases where someone has “missed the mark” (the definition of sin) in a more serious way, is they are given a “time out” from taking the Eucharist. It’s called a penance. The Eucharist is powerful. Some say it can hurt you when you take it while you’re at odds with the teachings of the Church and, sometimes, with God himself. (Not saying surrogacy is one of those things. I honestly don’t know.)
A penance is an opportunity to correct your path and understand why what you did separated you from God on your side. God is always present but sometimes we do things that must be healed to renew our relationship with Him. The Church is very good at that.
We are all broken, Mary. We go to Church. We go to confession. We learn from our mistakes, acknowledge them, and move on.
You need to talk with a priest about these questions. If you don’t have one to talk to but would like to, email me your location at gail.sheppard@usa.net and I will help you find one.
I know other blogs out there are set up for a priest to expound on these things, but we aren’t. So my lay answer will have to suffice until I can find you someone who can best address your concerns.
That was a very nice response. Thank you. I’ve seen priests on this blog piping in for many reasons so I thought one would answer.
🙂
The child of surrogate parenthood is not unnatural and, of course, has a soul, but the means of conception are illicit and unlawful (tantamount to adultery, say some) and the whole method of ‘procuring’ children in such a sense is unnatural. Nothing more needs to be said about the unnatural state of sodomy.
As I already stated above, every priest has the right to withhold baptism from anyone, including children whom he believes will not be raised according to the Orthodox faith. Children of surrogacy can certainly be baptized, but Orthodox parents who used surrogacy to bring forth a child should certainly be penanced and made to realize that this was a sin.
Yep, this is what it seems like to me too. I’ve seen a lot of children of people I had never seen in my life but were technically part of the local ethnic community come to my parish when I was a kid to get their babies baptized, likely from pushing from the grandparents. The parents can and should be encouraged to repent and then continue forward in the life of the Church, but no one can MAKE them (all of us parents) do that. The sacrament of baptism is real and carries the grace of God regardless of the beliefs of the parents or whomever. In those circumstances where parents are not active in the church or are teaching wrong things, as all parents do at some point, hopefully the lack is made up for or corrected somewhere else in the life of the child.
Again, I do stick to my conviction that this does not look good and it will lead people on either side of the opinion spectrum to be confused, which itself is no good.
I have to disagree with Mr Stamatakis on multiple fronts with regard to his explanations on the requirements for a valid baptism in the Orthodox church, and what the baptism of these particular children “means” for their parents. First of all, generally, anyone can be baptized without regard for the status of their parents. Obviously in the case of children, the parents should be involved, but even in the link Nick provides, it says for that parish that parents who are not in good status in whatever form should discuss it with the priest. It is outside of my understanding that there would be any priest who would deny ANY parent a baptism for their little child on the sole basis of the sinfulness in WHATEVER form of the parents. A priest could caution, encourage a waiting period, or whatever, but I think they’d be hard pressed to give an outright no to a child without any attempt to make a plan that could be acceptable.
On the second point, I am really failing to see how the baptism itself would give ecclesial validity to the lifestyle of the parents. The confusing thing here is precisely why Archbishop Elpidophoros himself would take part in the baptism, as you said on this blog, instead of a parish priest. It is obvious how that happened, through money and influence. It does create a tricky situation but the trickiness of it is in how bad the optics of it is, not in how it is in any way validating the lifestyle.
I hope I articulated that in an understandable way. My fear would be that someone would read Mr Stamatakis’ article and glean from it that Orthodox baptism is much more restrictive than it actually is, or that you can’t get baptized if you have gay parents, which is completely false.
The optics are the point, Sara Karcher.
It’s incredibly clever, isn’t it? Insidiously clever. It accomplishes first of all the glory and beneficence of the hierarch; the grace, the love, the acceptance he and only he had the courage to bestow on this hideous mockery of marriage, and family.
In the second place, the optics glorify, like it or not — and the couple themselves say it — the “first openly gay baptism in the Greek Orthodox Church”, whatever that is.
The optics are offensive, in the sense that they are ON the offense. They DARE anyone to speak ill of a “gay baptism”, which is a hideous, and filthy mockery of marriage, and by extension, mockery of the Bridegroom and the Church.
If someone reads Mr. Stamatakis’ article and gleans from it that Orthodox baptism is much more restrictive than it really is, or that you can’t get baptized if you have gay parents, is that really somehow worse than these optics?
This is spot-on. This baptism of an innocent child is intrinsically tied up with the issue of homosexuality precisely because they (Elpi, the parents) publicized it as an “openly gay baptism”.
If, as some defenders of this would like us to believe, an unrepentant sodomite couple really wanted their child to be raised in the Orthodox faith despite their lifestyle, and for the godparents to be responsible for this upbringing, they would have gone to a priest privately who would probably elevate the issue to the bishop to make a decision on the unusual situation, had the baptism done in their local parish without fanfare if approved, and that would have been that.
They chose to turn it into a pro-LGBT media circus, so that’s what the Orthodox world is (rightly) focusing on.
When the children need bread,
the ‘parents’ (and Elpi) give them a circus…
He’s one of those “fathers” who doesn’t even know he has children. “Children? What children? I have an agenda to promote!”
Priests have a right to deny baptism to infants that will definitely not be raised according to Christians norms. This is evidently the case here, but Elpi doesn’t care.
Exactly right.
I knew a parishioner who wanted to have his grandchildren baptized and our priest reluctantly refused after consulting with our bishop, because there was no chance the children would be raised Orthodox, and the man was not in a position to guarantee it.
It’s a tragedy, but baptism is the entry into the Church, and if the child will not be taught the Faith (how could he be taught by parents engaged in flagrant sin?) it would be sacrilege.
These two men will be judged in the Last Day, and Elpi many times more harshly for leading them on the path of sin.
Sure, a priest can refuse to perform any sacrament for a person. I was saying it is outside my experience of multiple jurisdictions that a parent seeking the baptism of their child has ever been totally denied, even if the parent was not even Orthodox. The priest can counsel, exhort, etc., but can not force a person to repent and provide a Christian upbringing. Denying a child the grace of God through baptism on the grounds that they were adopted by parents who are gay doesn’t make sense to me. As I’ve said, how it happened looks bad but that doesn’t fundamentally have to do with the kids involved. They have other people in their lives such as grandparents who very well could have taken up the mantle for religious upbringing. I dont believe and the Church doesn’t teach that we should punish the kids or deny them based on the sins of the parents, though we of course do receive the natural consequences of pur parents decisions. We stand on our own with our own sins and choices, and if the kids fall away from the faith later in life, those choices will be on the kids. Baptism gives someone a great start in life, and if the parents were willing to allow the kids to be baptized then we should rejoice in that—and NOT in their visible sins and wrong beliefs.
“Baptism gives someone a great start in life, and if the parents were willing to allow the kids to be baptized then we should rejoice in that”
Nonsense. Baptism is not magic, some kind of spiritual vaccine against bad juju.
It would be better for these infants to go unbaptized and hopefully discover the faith later in life, when they can appreciate it, than to be baptized in this extravagantly decadent display of chutzpah and go on to defile that very baptism by not being raised in the knowledge of what is good and true, ultimately falling into multifarious sins, (mis)guided by the very “parents” and “godparents” who, at that baptism, promised to guide you to Christ.
This is true, Sarah. These kids are being set up to fail, spiritually. Their first sacrament is tainted by the circumstances.
At this point, LP’s job was to take the GOA completely into the globalist orbit. As long as the jackasses who make up the L100/Archon class go along with their delusions of Byzantine grandiosity, then LP (or his equally globalist/compromised successor) has nothing to worry about.
As for the GOA parishes: I say withhold all your money (i.e. franchise fee) to 79th St.
And you better do it now, because the present crop of GOA metropolitans are going to be replaced with pliant archimandrites who are beholden to Istanbul.
I know many talk of withholding money, but money isn’t the solution for most people, unless one happens to be among the billionaires that fund the archdiocese. This isn’t about money. It is about faithfulness to Christ, His saving truth and true communion with Him and with one another in His Church.
Like it or not, the false ecclesiology of the EP has created an environment in which the esposcopacy and the presbytery live in fear of losing their positions (and livelihoods) if they dare to speak against such things. This is the sad reality of being in an EP jurisdiction. It is ruled in an unaccountable top-down manner and has thus rendered itself virtually incapable of self correction.
Has it not been evident for many decades that those at the top will always manage to extract the funds they need to survive?
Have they not demonstrated time after time after time that they view the “little people” as their slaves?
And, as the Apostle writes. “You are slaves (willingly) of the one you serve.”
Lavish partying that included the performance of a popular recording artist, statements made about the oppression of the poor homosexuals who just want to be loved and accepted like normal people, ridiculous platitudes of how the Church needs to accept everyone (including their unrepentant and ongoing sinning), the vision of Elpi the great leader, blah blah blah. No mention of bringing the two innocent children into the life of the Orthodox Church, no mention of how they will dedicate their lives to Christ, no mention of battling earthly passions, of attaining humility. Nope, none of that. Just all about themselves and their celebration of sin. The children and the altar are just props for pushing the acceptance of homosexuality in the Church. How would the two daddies dressed in white respond if one day the children tell them “today we learned how homosexuality is a sin”. Somehow I don’t think this is in the agenda of the two daddies. Lord protect these two innocent children and have mercy on us all.
https://orthochristian.com/147132.html
I agree with you 100%!!!!!
The Greek “orthodox” Episcopalian Archdiocese of America – Byzantine Rite continues to move full steam ahead.
This happened in Athens so to think that this didn’t happen without the explicit consent of either Bartholomew or Irenimos would be foolish.
I agree with Brian regarding rebuke from the synod and the Church of Greece, but, he should also be swiftly removed from the Assembly of Bishops (which should have truthfully been done long ago), if OUR bishops remain silent on this then that is even worse. This news has spread like wildfire and I’m sure they are aware of it, and if they aren’t then they will be soon.
I agree George, ball is in their court.
This is something so heinous and contrary to Orthodoxy that it should receive rebuke from the patriarchs.
Petro, I don’t want to go down a rabbit-hole here as the main issue is LP’s actions, but I can’t help but wonder where the Church of Greece is in all of this? Why did they allow it? After all, the Archbishop of Athens is forbidden from setting foot on American soil (so as to not hurt the EP’s feelings [long story]).
And of course, this was no doubt done with the approval of the EP.
I have a feeling that if this blows up even more, this will provide the EP the excuse to finally get rid of LP. It might also derail Belya’s ordination.
Maybe this was a Black Swan event?
I sure hope so, but gah has Elpidophoros sure had a lot of Black Swan events, one of them eventually has to stick.
I will say, this time it feels “different.” The amount of righteousness indignation I’ve seen from this event is something I haven’t seen in a while.
I’ve had some thoughts along the same lines. Time will tell.
Re: your questions “…where the Church of Greece is in all of this? Why did they allow it?… “, it didn’t take long for your answer George. 🙂
https://orthochristian.com/147200.html?fbclid=IwAR1gmGtsVc1AYobODvP-b4Q69uYeU7Eprc4FOU9oamjorgWOTZBkANSt2fs
We are going to need a lot more popcorn to watch the ending of this horror show.
I’m actually choking on my popcorn at this point!!!
Apres clergy laity side note: it turned out to be a super spreader event, w multiple multi-vaxxed priests and other attendees bringing a little souvenir aka the ronnie back to their house me parishes. Probably epi and crew shared same ronnie souvenirs w family and friends at the podium policy-making blessed event in the old country
I heard! One of my sources told me that one of the GOA bishops –who was four times vaccinated–got the Coof!
And that several priests who attended this were infected as well.
One wonders if this was a Monkeypox spreading event….
Do monkey business, get monkey illness.
LOL, I assume a few people probably caught AIDS at this subsequent event.
Editor Note: Stick to the issues. We do not allow people to talk this way to other commentators.
Sarah, Joseph, that’s not what’s at play here. As I mentioned in the postscript, innocent children should not be denied the sacrament. A simple parish priest could have done the honors, instead it was a full-blown gala in Greece with a reception at a 5-star hotel.
What is at play is the sub Rosa legitimation of gay “marriage” in the Orthodox Church. The fact that a primate performed this rite underscores how important to the hierarchy is the homosexual subculture which exists within the GOA be upheld as legitimate.
Nor can we forget the financial angle (more to come on this front).
I don’t mean to offend & I am not gay-bashing just trying to put it all in perspective.
Innocent children may be denied the sacrament if their parents or godparents are inadequate.
Until I see Abp Elpidophoros perform a gay marriage or say himself that he endorses it or it’s okay or whatever, I’m choosing to give the benefit of the doubt. While also being very frustrated that he keeps choosing to do and say stuff that is confusing, questionable, or otherwise ambiguous.
He’s definitely not my fave bishop ever but I also don’t want to accuse him of stuff he might not be actually saying.
I personally don’t feel like anyone here is gay bashing. You can have same sex attraction and be Orthodox…you just can’t/shouldn’t celebrate or practice it, just like any other spiritual disorder that we bring with us. The ONLY lifestyle the Orthodox Church affirms is one of repentence and drawing closer to Christ.
Absolutely right, Sarah.
Very well said, Sarah. (As Gail likes to remind me every now and then: we’re ALL broken people, one way or the other).
He has been given the benefit of the doubt too much and undeserved. Very undeserved.
Peter
This story has popped up all over Instagram, even on Orthodox accounts that are usually neutral, or at least normally wouldn’t be critical of the GOA/EP. Even a Turkish Orthodox page called out Bartholomew.
I think this has legit ticked a lot of people off, and rightly so.
As to the overall seriousness of the religious consequences of baptism by sponsors, one of the sponsors was an Italian model:
https://orthochristian.com/147132.html
A “wild party” commenced afterwards.
Different reports have stated there were as many as 8 godparents – koumbari – Nono & Nona, 2 of which were Greek Orthodox the others could fall into the category of Παρακούμπαρος -Parakoumbaros, who just essentially stand there as witnesses. I have read this has been done when Orthodox Royals marry and have baptisms. In this case the Greek Papou & YiaYia standing in the community came into play. I could stand corrected.
https://greekreporter.com/2022/07/11/first-greek-orthodox-baptism-gay-couple-greece/?fbclid=IwAR1OfIBcVKioNctT-A2edjQvB0MptKbaVtZuu_88lAI—lKCwhdAwDFdNI
Actually, although the optics matter, what really matters, if I’m not mistaken, is that infant baptism has a twofold requirement. Belief AND Ritual!
Infant baptism is a sacrament that initiates a child into the community of believers and washes away the ancestral sin of humanity, thus uniting them to God in Christ. It is done as both a commitment and conversion to God. It has the expectations that the one receiving baptism believes and professes the teachings of the Church. Scripture is clear that, “Whoever believes AND is baptized will be saved” (Mk. 16:16).
Clearly the the ritual of baptism and the belief in the teaching of Christ can’t be separated.
So how is a child able to proclaim a belief that they don’t comprehend? Since the time of the Apostles it was based upon the faith of the parents (and later the Godparents). It was their pledge to raise the child in the faith and instruct them that allowed a baptism of a child to be possible. Without that commitment it makes no sense, what you have is a ritual without belief! If a parent or godparent does not believe as the Church professes then a child should not be baptized out of some duty to custom.
This is not a punishment on the part of the child, rather a mercy. If we believe that a child should not be denied baptism for the sins of the parents then why not secretly try to baptize all children in order to save them?
That goes against the two fold requirement of both belief AND ritual.
I must say that many secularists and non-believers go absolutely ape-sh!t when the Mormons baptize the dead ancestors of new converts.
Why is this? Do they believe that posthumous Mormon baptisms are efficacious? Or do they view it as an insult?
“My soul, my choice”
I don’t think we Orthodox believe in ancestral sin. We live in a world that has the consequences of Adam’s sin which is death. Christ conquered death .
Stephen, according to my understanding, we do believe in Ancestral Sin which is different from Original Sin.
In other words, we live with the consequences of Adam’s sin. The Western concept means that not only do we live with this burden but that every human being is born with this same sin.
We don’t believe that.
If however, I am misinformed, I would ask someone who is theologically trained to set me straight. If so, I will apologize.
If my ancestor got hung for sheep-stealing
and thereby lost the tenancy of the farm
and the family was therefore forced to emigrate,
I may experience some consequences of the affair;
but I carry no guilt in the matter of this ancestral sin;
unless (perhaps) I choose to follow the family tradition…
We are NOT charged with the sin of Adam and Eve, i.e. “original sin.” But we do live with the consequences of sin, i.e. ancestral sin, which is death. Fortunately, Christ overcame death when he died on the cross.
..which is precisely my point.
Brendan, you still suffer from the sin of your ancestor however.
…and whose did the sheep say they were anyway?
Perhaps my last was a little too opaque.
If we are guilty of the Original Sin (which we did not commit)
as opposed to being naturally infected with the effects thereof,
then we are hopelessly sunk in the Total Depravity of Calvin.
Where then comes our ability to recognise the call of our Lord when:
…we like sheep have gone astray ? Isiah 53:6 KJV
and to co-operate with the Grace he extends towards us?
We Orthodox do believe in Original Sin. Here is Saint Peter Mogila’s Orthodox Confession of Faith, which was approved by all the Eastern Patriarchs:
And the Confession of Dositheus:
Both of these quotes do not say we are born guilty of the sin of Adam. That is what many in the West teach. The consequences and tendency to sin, and the darkening of our nous is passed, but not guilt.
That’s true. A common misconception is that the Roman Catholic Church teaches that we are each individually guilty of Adam’s sin, which is not correct. I think that might be found in more hardline Protestant conceptions, but, as far as I can see, what we teach and what the Papists teach is more or less the same. I don’t think that it’s necessary to make a distinction between “Original” and “Ancestral” sin.
Try this from the OCA:
“First sin” does not carry the scholastic, juridical baggage that “Original Sin” lugs around.
Rome has watered down and distanced itself from its own teachings in the recent past but they still believe the taint is passed on. Formerly they used stronger language. There is no other reason for the pseudo-miracle of the Immaculate Conception than as a remedy for the false teaching regarding inheriting the sin of Adam.
Go check the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. It’s not in there. IN fact, they state the opposite. From article 405:
I’m no fan of the Papists, but we need to be accurate with this kind of thing.
The main problem with this isn’t the baptism itself but the fact that the Archbishop went to Greece performing it and giving it all the publicity the homosexual couple were hoping for. At most it should have been a low key ceremony done by a local priest in Greece after counseling the couple on their sinful lifestyle and the effects of that lifestyle on the child. Of course it was done the way it was to advance the agenda of normalizing homosexual relationships.
I wouldn’t doubt this is his strategy all along and his reason for doing it. He calculatedly made this decision, knowing it would spotlight the Greek Orthodox Church in international headlines. He’s forced the hand. Sides will be taken, lines will be drawn. I think that is precisely what he wants.
“Sides will be taken. Lines will be drawn. I think that is precisely what he wants.”
Frankly, that’s what most of us want also. The lines have been blurred far too long. In this respect he has (with tragic irony) done us all a great favor. He violated the first principal of Satanic strategy. Never push too far too soon so as not to raise the ire of the simple minded.
There is much truth in what you say,
though the upbringing of the children must also be an issue.
You hate to tell anyone anymore that your an Orthodox christian. Such an embarrassment!
GOA = Episcopal Church circa 1965
EXACTLY! I have been saying this for several years. Study the downward trajectory of the GOA & you end up with modern Episcopalianism! Did the Espicopalians see this happening to them? Not many or perhaps they loved their beautiful buildings too much to flee. Sadly, I see many parallels in the modern GOA. If the Greeks aren’t scandalized by what has been happening in the archdiocese over the past few decades, will they ever wake up? These are the very questions I asked about Episcopalians 40+ years ago. We need to pray for our GOA friends and encourage them to muster up the necessary strength to flee or strongly protest and, at a minimum, completely withhold their giving until things change. Fr. David
Fr. David, I think I’m right when I say that most Episcopalians saw what was happening to us but had differing reactions. Many were scandalized and left when the heretic Bp. James Pike was exonerated about the time that you sight, the mid-’60s; many protested like hell and left when they could no longer tolerate the female clergy of 1976 and the newfangled Prayer Book (BCP) of 1979; many more stuck it out until Mr. Vicky Imogene Robinson became the first gay bishop in 2003; many others just sat there like frogs in a warming pot without a concern that so many “orthodox” parishes and clergymen were hounded, sued or prosecuted by Pres. Bp. Katherine Jefferts Schori and her sycophants.
On the other hand, others left their own denominations and stepped on over to the trendy Episcopal Church. Robin Williams joked about the TEC, of which he was a member, when he compared it to the Roman Catholic Church. He said the TEC “had the same rituals, but less guilt”. Now the TEC has one prominent parish in the impressive Byzantine building of St. Bartholomew’s, NYC. They consider their mission to be the “queering of Manhattan”. St. Bart’s was the venue for Abp. Elpidophoros’ stunt last June’s Pride Month, where he served the Orthodox Divine Liturgy in celebration of Pat. Bartholomew’s thirty years on the Ecumenical Patriarchal throne. Don’t think for a minute that his subtle plan to inch the homosexual ball forward wasn’t carefully choreographed. Now, this infant baptism, a year later and a world away, has the hallmarks of the same insidious plot to undermine the morality of the Church, and as you suggest, gradually turn the GOA into a TEC 2.0. This WILL INDEED happen, Father, if Christ tarries, and God washes his hands of the whole affair.
Oh! I forgot to mention the “Rev.” Barbara Harris, a divorced, black woman who had never attended seminary. She became the first bishopess of the overwhelmingly white TEC (PECUSA or ECUSA) in 1989. That one was another shocker to traditional Episcopalians.
Corneliu Codreanu, regarding the trouble of funding an organization”
This is really good, thanks for sharing.
This baptism is graceless. How many canons did Elpidoforos break to uncanonically go into the territory of the Church of Greece and usurp the authority of the archbishop of Athens?
If Athens was involved and cleared him to celebrate in their duocese then they too are heretics.
Our Saints smashed idols, yet we are weak and impotent to stop this complete and obvious heresy – but it’s more than that – it’s allowing Satan into our own house. What a mockery! There is NO JUSTIFICATION for this. NONE.
THIS MUST BE STOPPED
I pray for those struggling against the devil who will see in this a justification that their struggle is for nothing. How many will lose their faith in a Church whose ancient teachings on morality are thrown out on a whim. Is anything sacred in our church anymore? In what other ways will our clergy betray our church and our faith?
There are presuppositions to every Mystery, baptism included … the AB is either ignoring them, or is fully onboard with the agenda of these self-proclaimed “progressive” people. This is not about baptism, its about changing the Church, its about making the church in the image of their choosing … not transforming one to the image of Christ and His Church. Seems the days ahead will make either Confessors of the Faith or cowards.
Exactly.
Fr. Pat once said he doesn’t baptize children. He baptizes families. He declined baptizing some of his own grandchildren because the parents were not being faithful in their walk. To baptize children apart from the assurance they will be raised in a Christian manner is to squander the grace of the sacrament. The “archbishop” has done these children no favors. Lord have mercy.
Someone of archiepiscopal dignity performing those baptisms does not send the right message about homosexuality. They could have made privacy a condition of performing those baptisms, with the minimum required personnel, i.e. godparents and no one else.
However, I cannot agree with some other unrelated points you made.
This sounds like the practice in the Middle East with marriages between Chalcedonians and non-Chalcedonians. I do not necessarily associate this with homosexuality.
uh wut. Evidence? Without evidence, this is among the more entertaining conspiracy theories I’ve encountered on the Orthonet.
No. That’s on President Putin. The Church there is a mess, to be sure, but a mere sideshow to Putin’s very secular and irredentist strategic opportunism.
If there is any case to be made about causal relationship between the Church mess and the war, it is would be the reverse. The EP’s canonically questionable shenanigans happened after Russia’s illegal invasion and annexation of Crimea in 2014.
Mark, thank you for your critique.
Seeing as we agree on the first point, I will go to points #2 and #3:
The St Nicholas Shrine. Right now, we can infer a lot based on these items:
1. the financing of this boondoggle as well as GOA’s is under Federal investigation.
2. the former treasurer of the GOA was indicted and is now giving up evidence to the Dept of Justice.
3. the Shrine itself was stated to cost only $40 million (which I think we can all agree was horribly overpriced in the first place). Now it has gobbled up $130 million.
If you were ever wondering how the State Dept/CIA finance their various revolutions and coups d’etat, the answer is easy: $800 hammers and $1200 toilet seats.
The Ukraine. We now know that the Russian SMO was in direct reaction to several –repeat, several–NATO provocations (to which we must admit the Kiev regime acquiesced).
1. These provocations are admitted to by many in the West (not just Dr John Mearsheimer but Henry Kissinger and others). American officials have admitted openly that there was never any intention on their part to allow Ukraine entry into NATO but they pretended that this would be the case, in order to purposely provoke Russia.
2. The existence of the biowarfare labs were (in this day and age) a complete and open provocation. Both #1 and # are nothing less than clear and present dangers.
3. NATO knew that the Ukraine was planning to attack on Feb 28th. It was in the cards. Again, a clear and present danger.
Certainly, we shall know more in due time when the dust settles.
3.
I’m not even sure what can be done at this point, another open letter to the Assembly? Another petition?
Obviously prayer is first and foremost but the faithful are charged to take action when the Faith is being attacked.
We can’t wait for the other Metropolitans in the GOA to speak out because there is zero chance of that, or that would have done it at some point in the last 3 years.
Whatever happened to the Burning Bush Brotherhood?
They haven’t posted anything since January this year. Maybe they were a single-issue (anti-COVID) “movement.”
M, care to comment on this?
https://russian-faith.com/family-values/the-fathers-of-marxism-predicted-the-legalization-of-pedophilia-n3368
The local bishop explains the duplicitous heretic Lambriniadis’ false pretense.
See this link at Romfea:
?
This paints a bad picture for Orthodoxy in general. Non Orthodox will hear about this sooner or later, then they will say, see, even the Orthodox are accepting those kind. Much damage done.
A very good article and analysis. Thank you.
A minor correction on your point 2 of indignities. The GOA pension fund has not been terminated after all, though this was the intention of the archbishop and his cronies. It was purportedly saved through a rejiggering of the annual parish assessments. However, this happened on the condition that the priests turn over the power to terminate the pension from the presbyter-led Benefits Committee to the Archdiocese. Guess what will happen the next time the stock market takes a big dip and the GOA has to up its contribution to keep the pension fund solvent?
And, to be fair, the severe shortfall in the pension fund happened on the watch of Archbishop Demetrios, who was also responsible for the aesthetic blunders of the shrine and the financial malfeasance. The former archbishop also turned a blind eye to a fair bit of sexual misconduct (as for example, the “nun cuddler” Brooklyn priest who remains frocked).
For those (like me) who were wondering whether the Church of Greece was in on this scandal, now we know:
https://www.helleniscope.com/2022/07/12/metropolitan-of-glyfada-antonios-elpidophoros-misled-me/
The Metropolitan of Glyfada says that he was only informed that this would be a “family baptism.” Hence, he was hoodwinked (or so he now says).
Personally, I’m inclined to believe him.
Courtesy of Helleniscope. If we lived in a sane country, Stamatakis would get a Pulitzer Prize for his superb undercover work.
If this is true that Met. Antonios indeed did not know then Elpidophoros should be defrocked, for many, many reasons but willfully deceiving a Metropolitan being a prime one.
I think he and the EP have received massive pushback that they were not expecting
BTW. according to the Greek press, the EP is in Greece but he’s lying low. Smart move, not distinguished or elegant, but smart nonetheless.
Let’s see how long he stays silent.
Does anybody want to take any bets as to whether this is what Karloutsos will use to get the EP to remove LP? Or whether this puts the kibosh on Belya’s ordination later this month?
Letter of Metropolitan Anthony of Glyfada to the Holy Synod:
Request letter of Elpi:
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/51127-o-mitropolitis-glyfadas-gia-tin-vaptisi-apo-ton-amerikis-elpidoforo
I wonder if it is in His Eminence’s jurisdiction to ask Elpi if there was anything else he didn’t tell him like how much money changed hands between the very wealthy Bousis family and Elpi. It would also be interesting to know how long ago the family attended Church in Chicago.
When looking at the OrthoChristian article on this that was linked above, they captured several social media posts saying that the planning of this baptism had been in the works for several months. AB Elpi had been planning to do this. All evidence points to the fact this was planned and rehearsed. Even the couple’s social media posts said they had been planning this to make history as the first gay baptism. Their words. So Elpi calculatedly did this on purpose.
Definitely planned and on purpose:
“Dundas added that the Archbishop Elpidophoros of America ‘agreed all children are accepted in God’s eyes and have a right to be baptized. He is pushing for change in the Orthodox religion for the youth, and opening doors for everyone instead of turning people away,’ he said.”
https://sports.yahoo.com/peter-dundas-picks-eugenie-niarchos-160907791.html
This sounds like a quote straight from Pope Francis or a modern Roman Catholic bishop
The baptism of these two infants wasn’t the idea of the “gay” couple. That actually was made clear in an interview with both of them. It was the infants’ grandmother, Eleni Bousis, that wanted it. They enthusiastically agreed. It appears the grandmother in this case actually has influence in the matter, and she probably will have quite a bit of influence in their religious upbringing also.
Sure, the couple is ridiculously spinning this on instagram as a “progressive” event in the church, but that’s simply their delusion. I really fail to see anything specifically “progressive” about it. Liturgically, it appears to have been a standard Orthodox baptism with nothing at all changed liturgically. As I’ve pointed out before, the parents or guardians have no liturgical role in the baptism ritual. Rather, it’s the godparents and the priest that are involved liturgically.
Indeed, the fact that Archbishop Elpidophoros did the baptism is certainly unusual. However, since the grandmother, Eleni Bousis, is on the Archdiocesan Council and works with the Archbishop, there already is a pastoral relationship between the two. So this appears to have been specifically a pastoral decision to help out Eleni Bousis, rather than the “gay” couple.
Of course any celebrity baptism is bound to get attention. However, you won’t find anything about this on the GOARCH website. Rather, all the “press” is coming from websites such as Helleniscope that already have an axe to grind with Archbishop Elpidophoros.
If I may, I’ll end this comment with the words of the late Archbishop David Mahaffey of the OCA:
“I will say that most arguments against same sex marriage are not strong arguments. Can we deny that those couples do not feel love? Can we say they will make bad parents, or downgrade a community by their presence? The evidence says otherwise. The starting point for any discussion on marriage must begin in the “Sacred Function” Argument. Men and women are given certain “Sacred Functions” that only they can fulfill, when they were created. Those functions are not subjective, but exist in the objective understanding of each person qua person as man or woman.”
https://www.pravmir.com/bishop-david-on-supreme-court-decision-on-marriage/
To answer the late Bishop David Mahaffey’s rhetorical questions, I would say this:
1. “Can we deny that those couples do not feel love?” YES: a distorted, solipsistic, perverted attraction as a reflection of one’s own male image perhaps, but certainly not the divine virtue of complementary love revealed in Holy Scripture and taught by the Church from its inception.
2. “Can we say they will make bad parents, or downgrade a community by their presence?” YES: homosexual couples preclude the divinely ordered role of a mother and a father for the conception, care, and raising of children. Homosexual couples are intrinsically spiritually and morally dysfunctional, incapable of conceiving their own children and in need of a “surrogate” male or female to provide the missing sexual element, a falsification of the concept of marriage and family, and an affront to God. Moreover, if a mother or father in a proper marriage happens to die before the children grow to adulthood, there are other male or female members of the extended family (or even close friends of the married couple) who can provide at least some kind of authentic, divinely blessed paternal or maternal role model.
Full Disclosure: I knew Bishop Mahaffey when both of us were priests in the OCA. We disagreed on occasion over several moral / ethical quandaries, especially concerning clergy, but we maintained a mutual respect and appreciation for one another’s ministry. When my matushka and I made a pilgrimage to Kodiak, Alaska, after I had transferred from the OCA to ROCOR and Father David had been consecrated and assigned as Bishop of Alaska, he was very hospitable to Kathleen and me. Nonetheless, I wish he had never written the comments quoted above.
At this crucial juncture in the spiritual and moral lives of Orthodox Christians in North America, we cannot go wobbly on the key spiritual and moral challenges posed by the Zeitgeist to Holy Orthodoxy.
Father Alexander,
“if a mother or father in a proper marriage happens to die before the children grow to adulthood, there are other male or female members of the extended family (or even close friends of the married couple) who can provide at least some kind of authentic, divinely blessed paternal or maternal role model.”
Yet this is usually what happens in the raising of any child. There are other male and female role models in the extended family, friends, teachers, and members of the community.
My point is not to justify or encourage the adoption of children by single people or same-sex couples, but rather to acknowledge that it happens. We may warn people that it’s not ideal for them and the child, but people still make these choices, and how does the church respond? Is there a penance for a single person who adopts a child?
A same-sex couple, like the example we’re discussing, may not wish to repent of their own sin, but they may still wish to have their adopted children raised in the church. If there is enough support by other Orthodox family members, godparents, and friends to do this, then it seems to be a valid consideration for allowing baptism.
I would additionally say that many parents bringing their children to church don’t wish to personally repent of their sins either. That’s not ideal of course, but it’s the reality. I would still hope that the unrepentant sinner still brings his child to church.
Bishop David (Mahaffey) of Sitka and Alaska
28 June 2015
https://www.pravmir.com/bishop-david-on-supreme-court-decision-on-marriage/
‘ As many of you know by now on Friday, June 26th the Supreme Court of our country issued a 5-4 decision to overturn all bans of same-sex marriage by states and affirmed this union as being a constitutional right. In effect the court has ruled, in finality as all decisions of the Supreme Court are, that same-sex marriage can be legally performed by all states in our country.
This does not change the situation for us as Orthodox Christians. We will still uphold the Biblical Standard that Marriage is between one man and one woman, the Supreme Court’s decision does not change that basic truth.
As your bishop, I will give no blessing for any marriage outside of the traditional marriage of one man and one woman. Even though same-sex marriage is “legal,” there will be no same sex marriages in our parishes. … ‘
You keep saying that only the godparents matter in this circumstance. If that’s true, why does the grandmother’s influence matter? And who would serve as godparents to children who will not be raised in an Orthodox household and whose “parents” are either members in bad standing or not members at all, and are going to undermine the Church’s teachings with every living breath? I certainly wouldn’t.
While godparents are supposed to give a sort of guarantee of Orthodox upbringing, the fact is the parents are the primary educators of children in both the faith and in every other facet of life. The priest mentioned above who said he would only baptize families, not minor children of non-Orthodox parents, was right on.
Joseph,
This is ad hominem.
You’ve crossed the line. Your sophistry, apologetics, deflection, contortionism, and plain old bullsh@t supporting the ongoing apostacy of the EP, the GOA, and their minions has worn thin.
No. It is worn out.
This is acceptable to you because some filthy rich, sodomite-raising, desperate yia’yia desires and finances it?
“Pastoral decision”? Do you really believe that?
Go ahead. Keep fooling yourself, but what you write makes an utter mockery of Orthodoxy.
Lambriniadis’ omission of a material fact in his letter to the local bishop makes him a duplicitous, conniving, liar.
Who in their right mind could possibly condone this behaviour by a supposed Orthodox bishop? DO YOU?
You excuse it, contextualize it, and obfuscate this perversion. BUT DO YOU ENDORSE AND APPROVE OF IT?
Stop. Just stop.
Johnson, very well said!
I pray Elpi’s actions are publicly condemned by the Metropolitans immediately, that they issue an open letter confirming the sacrament of marriage as between and man and a woman, that Elpi is defrocked. Their inaction, God forbid, would be perceived as a form of consent.
Those who are arguing about the “legitmacy” of this baptism or whatever are missing the point entirely. Entirely. Like most things in our culture which is severely deluded by its own “logic,” this approach is too left-brain-centric.
God will take care of the little kids. Yes, it sucks to grow up as the child of narcissistic parents who are unable to transcend their slavish desires, but God will open windows to care for these little kids, regardless of whether they are baptized or not.
The real issue is the ontological delusion that this fake, gay Greek “archbishop” and his gay entourage involved themselves in.
Baptism is *the entry into the Christian community.* Was what occurred for these two beautiful little babies an “entry into a Christian community?” Absolutely not.
They had a ceremony to enter these children into a clan that values money, power, influence, and Hellenism. Is that community Christian? Doesn’t seem to be, not in the least. Christians make Christ the center of their lives and, above all, just want to be with Him. Having a backdrop of icons and even set in a venerable older Greek church building do not make it Christian.
This is why apostolic succession requires TWO things: the continuous succession down from the Apostles, and maintaining the faith of the apostles intact. Otherwise, it’s reduced to an “ecclesiastical game of tag.” Which is why groups like the Church of England and the Roman Catholic church do not have apostolic succession — maybe they can prove a direct lineage, but they abandoned the faith. Game over.
Same for this wealthy gay Greek clan. They may have the pedigree to rival all Greek pedigrees and may have lineage and wealth that rivals the Jewish Sanhedrin at the time of Christ. But they’ve lost the faith. There’s nothing there.
Would Christ recognize this gay, wealthy Greek clan as His servants? Would the most beloved 20th century Greek saint, St. Nectarios of Aegina, say that these silly displays of modern, gay Greek wealth matter more than being a simple servant of Christ?
These rich clans simply use Christ as a backdrop to make them feel better about themselves.
The opposite of loving Christ is not hating Him — it is using Him.
Christ — and our faith — is all-encompassing and is life-changing, or it is meaningless. To this gay Greek clan and to this gay Archbishop, Christ and our Church seem to be meaningless fakes.
So what happened was NOT a baptism. It was NOT an entry into a Christian community. It was using some water in a ritual to make a wealthy, gay Greek clan feel better about itself. Rest assured that God is not fooled.
The beautiful babies are, of course, innocent, and God will provide for them.
The adults who turn their back on Christ, and the Church which stays silent and allows itself to be “used” for such an endeavor, well may God have mercy on them.
This is serious, serious stuff. And our response as Christians who will not sit idly by and watch Christ and our Church be mocked in this manner is as important as the ridiculous gay charade was to begin with.
Many people are asking … what can we do? Even those in the GOA I know are frustrated and want the AB removed. Any thoughts on what would be effective?
Flood your local GOA Metropolitan, the Greek Holy Synod and/or the Phanar with phone calls or letters. Get your parish council to vote to withhold dues to the GOA until further notice.
These children should never have been baptised. First the parents must desire to raise them up in the faith. Secondly most of these godparents were not even Orthodox.
Thirdly if the grandparents wanted the children baptised they would have brought them by themselves after consultation with their priest and permission of the guardian. The assurance that they and any sponsor is in charge of their spiritual upbringing. This was just an excuse for a party. Elpi broke canon 14 of the Holy Apostles. He should be defrocked. Why is no one bringing up the violation of the canons???
May you please remind us of what Canon 14 is? My apologies but I’m not a church Canon expert. Thank you, Kosta.
Christine:
Canon 14:
A bishop is not to be allowed to leave his own parish, and pass over into another, although he may be pressed by many to do so, unless there be some proper cause constraining him. as if he can confer some greater benefit upon the persons of that place in the word of godliness. And this must be done not of his own accord, but by the judgment of many bishops, and at their earnest exhortation.
Interesting the Metropolitan used that exact phrase, “of his own accord,” perhaps to raise the canonical issue clearly.
If you want to research then in English,
the term to look for is Apostolic Canons.
One small word about the “Godparents,” however many there were who were supposedly “Orthodox.”
Forget the apparent “LEGALITIES.” What truly Orthodox Christian, if one call them Christian, would agree to be Godparents under these circumstances, knowing that the ‘parents’ are in open rebellion and will refuse to teach the children the truth.
It is a mockery for which there can be no excuse.
May God be merciful to these children.
Elpidophoros and whoever enables him have shown themselves absolutely unworthy both as a bishops and as Christians. Theirs are among the skulls that pave the way to hell.
I have mixed feelings. First ROC and the Phanar are out of communion so IMO they can do anything they want at this point, the break is clean. However, I have serious misgivings about letting gay men raise children, especially boys. Most gays get that way through childhood molestation and that’s the perfect environment to enable that, frankly. That would be my main objection, actually, the legitimacy of gay parentage in the first place.
It will be decades before the academy and society are honest enough to document the frequency of sexual abuse in such cases reliably.
Commentary: Recent baptism of children of an openly gay couple by Archbishop Elpidophoros
Audio: http://www.orthodox.net/sermons/misc_2022+ab-elpidophoros-baptism-of-children-of-openly-gay-couple_1pet-2-20-21.mp3
YouTube: https://youtu.be/xeAv3A7iMuw
Commentary on the well-publicized (and praised!) baptism and “photo-op” that Archbishop Elpidophoros participated in, when adopted children of two openly gay men who are partners were baptized by him, in Greece (07-09-2022), as part of an exegesis of 1 Peter 2:11, ““Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;” From a longer sermon, at http://www.orthodox.net/sermons/saints-06-29_2022+apostles-peter-and-paul.mp3
The text accompanying the photo, from a Facebook post, is as follows: ” Last night was one of the best nights of our lives!! We are proud to have christened our children Alexios and Eleni in the first openly gay baptism in the Greek Orthodox church! The Archbishop of America, his Eminence Elpidophoros for pushing change and love with no judgement of anyone in the church and honoring us by christening our angels. We want to thank our families and friends who joined and our 8 godparents! We love you!!! Special thank you to Papou and Yiayia for throwing the best party ever!! @toniaandronikou thank you for putting up with us for 6 months and pulling through and making our dream night come true!!! And my baby @peter_dundas for making this fantasy night for all the parents and kids that came! @annaroussos @thanosasfis #AlexiosAndEleni”
GO WOKE, GO BROKE! Bye bye Greek Orthodox Church. The First Church is now NO better or different than the Episcopalian Church which embraced WOKENESS.
Congratulations for stooping to new lows Elpidoktonos and Bart! Your brilliance never ceases to amaze as your heretic actions continue breaking with church law canons almost daily. May you and your cozy bf’s in the closet take it in through the back door and don’t let the door hit you on your way out. RESIGN!
I see this event as a lesson from Our Lord.
I had mentioned some time ago, that it is time the Lord takes the Orthodox Churches by the ears and shakes the s**t out of them.
Our Lord is separating the wheat and the chaff, the sheep from the goats and individuals who have fallen from grace and drank the kool-aid of progressivism. Separating those who who hold fast to the very clearly defined path as taught by Our Lord and carried by Our Apostles to this day, and those who are blinded by fashion, convention, perversion, and money.
The Path is narrow, and the fall is steep.
I believe this and other events serve as a test, a lesson, and the means to strengthen Our Church. I believe that there will be more similar events that will make the foundations tremble (as well as other secular events worldwide). Remember it is not the hierarchy, nor the priests that are the body of the Church, but……the people.
On a side note : Do not despair with any of these events in Our Orthodoxy and in the world that appear as ominous dark clouds. This is a process that we must go through, a “cleansing” if you will of matters that are out of our control. Be joyful, I see The Lords Hand at work……and HE has a plan 🙂
Sadly this is who the Greeks are. This obviously made it to mainline Greek news sites and comments are overwhelmingly in favor of this practise. Most Greek commenters think baptism is just a secular rite of passage. As far as I’m concerned the World Orthodox Greek church has fallen. And if any of you think Athos or Arizona will do or say anything you are sadly mistaken.
Seraphim of Piraeus has not fallen
Kosta
Stop buying into what Satan would have you to believe.
This is deception of Biblical proportions. These boys are doomed! They have lied, cheated, stolen and smacked the faithful in the face with their heretics and blasphemy. Make no mistake, God has this mountain already moved for those who have faith.
“…where is the Church of Greece in all of this?”
Here:
+ Pireos Seraphim: Archbishop Elpidoforos of America and the ”New Gospel’
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/51143-peiraios-serafeim-o-arxiepiskopos-amerikis-elpidoforos-kai-to-neon-evaggelion
‘ … However, the procession of the performance of the sacrament of the baptism of two unfortunate children who – due to the tragedy of our time – which has institutionalized the overthrow of human ontology and physiology, as a supposedly human right, at a time when it has nothing to do with human nature, but is a psychopathological aberration that trivializes the human face and earthening its soul and realizes the definition of the great Italian Criminologist Cesare Lombroso that “the masculine woman has no moral inhibition and no metaphysical ideal” – they are under the sole responsibility of the State that “legislated” in this regard, in the vortex of the two homosexual so-called parents, with the result that they are deprived of the life-giving caress of the mother and the robust personality of the father, that is, to be deprived of the standards of life, becomes the springboard for the Ecclesiastical amnesty of the Ecclesiastical felony of sodomy, which is a mortal sin that deprives of communion with the Living God and inevitably leads his unfortunate victim to eternal perdition.
Therefore, the specific priestly act of His Eminence Archbishop Elpidoforos of America and the substantial rewarding of the non-recalcitrant Sodomites and their projection in the middle Church, as supposedly “godly persons”, who orthodoxly baptize their children, and the consequent amnesty of the deadly felony of sodomy and the overthrow of human ontology and physiology, directly offends the anthropology and soteriology of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and leads this particular Hierarch to the Holy Canons and the Lord of the Church, because through his practical “doctrine” he annulled the relevant salvific warrant of the Bible (Levit.18,22, Genesis 19,24, Rom. 1,27-28).
Therefore, this hierarch, for obvious reasons of publicity or others that we do not know, preferred to the doctrine of the Church the “modern gospel” of the serpent and is now under the banners of the Holy and Theophoric Fathers and the Canonical prediction of the Canonical Judicial bodies of the Venerable Ecumenical Patriarchate.
Personally, and because I am associated with him by friendship, I publicly call on him to make good the spiritual damage done by seeking the apology of the Most Holy Lord of the Church and the Ecclesiastical Body.
THE METROPOLITAN + PIRAEUS SERAFEIM ‘
It’s a machine translation from ‘not-your-normal-everyday Greek’
but, even so, I think the message comes across pretty clearly…
Try this from the OCA:
“First sin” does not carry the scholastic, juridical baggage that “Original Sin” lugs around.
Recently, “M” took me to task for suggesting that there was a higher-than-average propensity of homosexual parents to abuse their children.
According to Yahoo News, singer Ricky Martin (who is gay) “could face 50 years in alleged incest case.”
Who is “M” and why are they surprised by this? It should be common knowledge for those of us who oppose this kind of degeneracy.
Greece / The Holy Synod protested to the archbishop of America
for the baptism of the children of a gay couple in Vouliagmeni
https://www-lifo-gr.translate.goog/now/greece/i-iera-synodos-diamartyrithike-ston-arhiepiskopo-amerikis-gia-tin-baptisi-paidion-gay?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
‘ The Holy Synod decided to send a letter of protest to the Archbishop of America Elpidophoros and the Ecumenical Patriarchate for the baptism of the children of Evangelos Bousi and Peter Doudas. …
Today, Monday July 18, 2022, the Permanent Holy Synod of the Church of Greece of the 165th Synodical Period convened, under the Presidency of His Beatitude Archbishop of Athens and All Greece Mr. Ieronymos.
During today’s Session, the Permanent Holy Synod, after validating the Minutes of Authorization, examined the issues of the Agenda. The Permanent Holy Synod, after extensive discussion, unanimously decided the following:
… To send a letter of protest to the Most Reverend Archbishop of America Mr. Elpidophoros for what the Most Reverend Metropolitan of Glyfada, Hellinikon, Voula, Vouliagmeni and Vari Mr. Antonios reported in writing, in relation to the celebration of the Holy Sacrament of the Baptism of two infants in Vouliagmeni, as well as a related letter to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, under whose canonical jurisdiction the Archbishop of America is subject.
At the same time, the Holy Synod discussed at length the issues related to the pastoral treatment of such issues, remaining firm in what was determined by the Lord, the Holy Apostles and the Holy Fathers. ‘