This letter was sent to me unsolicited by one of the so-called DC Nuns. It provides yet more evidence that His Beatitude was railroaded.
We can definitely say that the story gets “curiouser and curiouser.”
Pontius Pilot asked, “What is truth?” and then turned and walked away from The Truth. Truth is not what, it’s Who.
I wanted to put into this letter something profound and powerful, but I don’t personally possess the skills, so I am instead inserting words of Joni Mitchell, an extraordinary poet, written 20 years ago:
“It’s dog eat dog—I’m just waking up
The dove is in the dungeon
And the white-washed hawks pedal hate and call it love
Dog Eat Dog….”
This past week I was in the San Francisco Bay area, along with three Metropolitans and a gaggle of Bishops. At the end of the festivities, just as he was leaving, I spoke with Metropolitan ILARION Alfeyev of Volokolamsk, in the hearing of Metropolitan JONAH. (Metropolitan JONAH did not put me up to this.) I asked Metropolitan ILARION if the Russian church will intervene in the situation of the removal of +JONAH as the OCA church’s leader. He answered me by saying the people have accepted this situation. I was taken aback and started to think about a protest, and he said to me, “We have heard of no dissent. The people are not objecting.”
I collected myself and asked again if the Russian Church would intervene if we asked it to? He answered me directly that the OCA is no longer the daughter church of the Russian Church, but now is an Autocephalous and Sister Church…that there cannot be direct interference in the internal workings of a church by another outside church.
I asked him, “To whom do we protest?” and he responded, “To your Bishop, to your Synod.” He smiled a big smile to me, I said I understood, and I thanked him for his advice and his time.
My understanding is: The Russian Church wants to protect the Autocephaly of the OCA, and attempts to intervene could be expected to be indirect, given evidence of dissent from the people within the OCA.
We ease our consciences by writing our protest in blogs online, (an example of excellent and concise reporting can be found at: http://www.christinefevronia.blogspot.com/ ) but perhaps M. ILARION was offering a concrete and valid solution… Could we provide an actual mountain of protest letters, – tangible letters – or is it only a few on the fringe who object to what has happened? And, what do we object to? I personally feel that it doesn’t matter if you agree with everything I object to and want as a solution, but only that we register – each of us – our dissent of the high-handed removal of our Metropolitan…if we, in fact, are in dissent.
+JONAH was presented with a situation of all the OCA Bishops being in agreement that he resign…so he, being conciliatory, did. But the information that it was not the unanimous request of all OCA sitting Bishops is starting to surface, supporting what Bishop BASIL Rodzianko, (of blessed memory) called, “The deadly half-truth”. The secretive and unauthorized telephone conference ‘Synod meeting’ which followed the Lesser Synod meeting that precipitated the resignation of +JONAH was at least un-canonical, and at worst conspiratorial.
Do I blame the bishops? Yes! I remember Bishop BENJAMIN telling me, right after his elevation to the episcopacy, (paraphrased, due to my inability to remember exact words after a span of many years) ‘You dress a man up as a Byzantine emperor and tell him to live forever, and then you are shocked to see that his ego and lust for power have expanded?’
Do you feel complacent about the removal of the Metropolitan – who has not been openly accused, nor afforded an opportunity to rebut, accusations which are shown to be deception?
Who am I? I am one of the ‘DC Nuns’ – in fact, one that was supposed to have been raped by Father X in 2010. Well, it didn’t happen, and +JONAH didn’t ask me to go Greece in order to hush the situation up – as if Greece were the moon – as if I would cover up a felony! That accusation didn’t go away for almost two years, and I have yet to be interviewed by anyone on that ‘investigative’ committee. The lie burned itself out, but not before causing a multitude of inferences and questions about Metropolitan JONAH’s handling, including its precipitating his being asked to check into a facility for the insane for six months – based on fictitious gossip! I lived next-door to Metropolitan JONAH. I have known him for years. I am a friend of his family. I told him it was spurious and false, and he didn’t investigate further. End of story. (Except I still have the emails sent between Fr. Alexander Garklavs, Melanie Ringa, Fr. Ted Bobish, Fr. Eric Tosi, and others escalating this fabricated falsehood into a frenzy!).
I lived in the rectory of Saint Nicholas during the time of the (reported two years later) rape of the Spiritual daughter of Father X. This report followed the victim and her husband being told they could no longer live for free with either parent, and then that they couldn’t live for free on the new monastery grounds in Maryland. Three months later, in May of 2012, this two-year old suppressed memory came to life. This was the very first indication to anyone of this allegation. Upon learning of this accusation, Metropolitan JONAH immediately investigated, discovered that the woman was under close spiritual care by her Priest, that she had filed a complaint with the police, and that the Orthodox Jurisdiction it fell under, ROCOR, had launched a full investigation. There was nothing else for His Beatitude to do!
Without defending all actions of Father X, I personally, have had a very hard time accepting a complaint of aggressive rape from someone who was so visibly close and supportive to her (accused) rapist, and even insisted that he perform her subsequent marriage ceremony. Disassociation on this level is unheard of. This couple was invited to Greece, and then left Greece when a free housing situation could not be established…now they are making spurious statements about the monasteries and monastics in Greece. Lord, have mercy!!! Who is listening to these people, and why?
I offer the following, (my emphasis) from the OCA guidelines for Sexual Misconduct (2003) 10.02. Burden of Proof: (a) As the Response Team, or investigators if applicable, consider the evidence adduced during the investigation, and reasonable inferences that can be drawn therefrom, they shall be guided by the following procedures in evaluating the evidence and in making their recommendation:
- The complainant has the burden of proof to establish that the Respondent engaged in acts of sexual misconduct;
- As a first step, there must be enough evidence from the complainant to cause the Response Team or investigators to believe that one or more of the allegations are substantiated at that point. This generally must be more than the complainant’s uncorroborated testimony standing alone. If the complainant meets this test, the so-called scales of justice temporarily would tip in favor of the complainant;
- If the preceding step happens, then the responsibility shifts to the respondent to show sufficient evidence to cause the scales of justice to tip back in his favor. This process can continue as witnesses are interviewed and evidence is produced. The scales could tip back and forth several times;
- When the investigation is concluded, the Response Team, or investigators, must look at all of the evidence and reasonable inferences that can be drawn, and decide whether the complainant has persuaded them of the allegations; and
- The standards of subparagraph (a) are subjective, and depend upon the judgments of the Response Team or investigators about the credibility of witnesses, the extent to which important elements are explained or unexplained, and similar matters.
As a direct witness of all involved I – for one – have still not been questioned by any ‘investigative’ committee, and I have not been hard to find – they knew my address all along. Please ask yourselves: For what reason are people listening? Who is not vulnerable in these situations? Who will be the next Bishop to fall, and under what “accusation”?
Land of snap decisions
Land of short attention spans
Nothing is savored
Long enough to really understandIn every culture in decline
The watchful ones among the slaves
Know all that is genuine will be
Scorned and conned and cast awayDog eat dog
People looking, seeing nothing
Dog eat dog
People listening, hearing nothing
Dog eat dog
People lusting, loving nothing
Dog eat dog
People stroking, touching nothing
Dog eat dog
Knowing nothing
Dog eat dog”
I suggest sending letters and signed petitions to:
-Your Bishop
Copying:
-The OCA Synod of Bishops
-Metropolitan ILARION Alfeyev of Volokolamsk
-Metropolitan JONAH
Does Metropolitan Jonah WANT to come back? Forgive me if this was previously asked and answered.
I think he would under very specific conditions.
Dear Gailina,
Your question is very valid. (I’ve seen it asked here before, but I haven’t noticed any answer.)
I would also like to say that my impression is that what His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah wants — is to do whatever is God’s Will.
Please refer to Metropolitan Jonah as his Eminence, He is no longer a Primate of a Church, The title “Beatitude” is only reserved for Primates and Retired, of which Jonah is not……
NJ, you guys got to get your story straight. According to the packet put out for Parma, we are informed that His Beatitude has “retired.” Which is it? Did he retire or did he resign?
Any official evidence that he retired?
If not, then it is just a blatant lie.
and if that is the cause for the AAC in Nov.,
then it is a blatant lie, also.
I’d call it a lie but that would mean that there was some intelligence behind the phrase.
The word retirement is also being bandied about on Orthodox Forum, that bastion of free debate that basically consists of repeating OCA talking points until people stop responding and then repeating them in all capital letters if anyone dare question the official line . . .
Yes, again it is the case of if you say it enough, it is so. However, Metropolitan Jonah is the Archbishop of Washington DC, he signed his letter this way on purpose. He is active and waiting assignment, which by the way makes him eligible to be elected as Metropolitan!
NJ are you saying this as an official of the OCA? I personally do not recognize the un-cannonical removal of His BEATITUDE Metropolitan Jonah. So, I personally will continue to refer to Metropolitan Jonah as His Beatitude. As far as I am concerned He is still and until the moment of His death,He will be the reigning Hierarch of the OCA until He chooses to step down WITHOUT coercion.
Amen. Amen. Amen.
How I came into possession of the following confidential correspondence I cannot tell you except to say that it was not leaked to me by HB Metropolitan Jonah.
“My Dear Synod of the OCA,
I was ecstatic to see you remove JP from the Metropolitanate. For a while there I was afraid you would leave him in his position until he completely wrecked our plans for the destruction of the Orthodox Church of America.
When you allowed him to get rid of my servant MS and to tackle head on my Lavender Mafia, I thought you had lost your collective minds. But now I see your wisdom in using this to strengthen your anti-JP cabal. And the way you defanged the beast while deftly sidetracking his choice for a new bishop for the DOS was sheer brilliance. Abbot G could have done us real harm in Dallas. If his stinking incessant prayers had been joined with those of JP — not to mention the continued troublemaking of +Dmitri — we might have seen years of evil undone. Frankly, I thought we were done with Dmitri’s meddling in 2011, but there are still some mysteries I do not understand. All three of those guys give me a pain in my shiny red pointy butt. I still hope to figure out how to silence Dmitri for good some day, but for now he is beyond my reach.
Meanwhile, keep up the good … I mean bad work. You are discouraging seekers, disheartening catechumens, and wearying the faithful. But don’t get cocky. If you play your cards right, you might just bring down, not only the OCA, but all of American Orthodoxy with it.
And watch out for Cone, Dreher, Reardon, Michalopolous, and their ilk. They’re up to no bad, I’m sure.
Your Father Below,
S.”
Nine weeks and counting.
No apologies from the Holy Synod?
No repentance from the Holy Synod?
No restoration of HB Metropolitan Jonah?
No resignations of the Holy Synod?
NO TITHES TO THE OCA FROM ME. Not lettin’ this go.
Screwtape Letters version 2.0?
🙂 Yup… C.S. Lewis…. Good stuff.
Its about time!
My most beloved sister in Christ, thank you so much for finding value in my “Open Letter” that I posted online. I am very humbled that you would find it of worth. I pray for you and the sisters every day. Although I have never met you or Abbess Aemiliane, I love you so much. Thank you for coming to America, and I am sorry that you have been caught in this web of treachery.
Another monastic friend of mine reminded me last night that our kingdom is not of this world. What we often hope for–justice and peace–is ours for the striving, but God’s for the giving.
I am honored to join hands with you as we endeavor and strive together for truth.
I have only one quibble with what the nun writes: that is not extraordinary poetry, by any stretch of the imagination.
Ah, but you should listen to the music – it’s a song, and it’s hauntingly lovely.
So then it’s a lyric, Anon, not poetry?
That would explain it!
It’s many years since I listened to modern popular music.
It addles the brain.
The level of discourse here would be lifted immeasurably if we all listened to Bach and Znammeny chant instead of The Beatles and Joni Mitchell. Let’s see how many “thumbs down” that gets!
Actually, I think Byzantine Emperors did better than had singing birds and roaming lions in their throne room.
You don’t need a mountain of evidence, because these “leaders” are not interested in evidence, in facts. They’re motivated by their desire for political intrigue and fanning the flames of chaos.
The answer is simple (he said, yet again): Vote Met Jonah back in. This would send a very powerful signal to these bishops. They can certainly choose to ignore it. But the message would be sent and it would be codified forever in history.
Even if Metropolitan Jonah received 2/3s of the first vote, the Holy Synod could veto it. You would then have to write down two names and the Holy Synod would select the other candidate. – The whole point is to reinstate Metropolitan Jonah, not re-elect him, right?
Galina, what they do or don’t do is immaterial. Jonah is still the canonical primate. Everything they have done is illegitimate. Barring real repentance, rather than the “cheap grace” that their PR firm chose for them to postulate in Parma, everything they will continue to do will be illegitimate.
I believe, what George says is true. It would be better if the priests who are attending(they have the votes) the AAC knew it too. Many of them justify putting their heads in the sand, or claiming “no one knows for sure”, or that God will take care of it all without our participation.
It is important to get Christine’s report and any other really helpful info to their doors before the AAC.
These priests who are charged with being the arms and hands of Christ need to get them wet.
Blog sites are terrific, but that takes people finding them and going to them. The numbers just don’t add up.
E-mail or snail mail Christine’s work as well as your support for +Met Jonah’s traditional Orthodox leadership to them. Take the light and the fight to their doors. Don’t listen to those who try to discourage you!
It might not save the OCA or the+Met job. But they might be shamed into releasing him and doing the right thing, instead of this travesty.
Also it will show the rest of the Orthodox world where we stand.
And who’s going to run this election meeting? The same outsider who conveniently manipulated and shut down the meetings in Seattle so that the synod could be protected from their due rewards?
I predict this meeting will be carefully manipulated by the synod, through their puppets, again. Talk of forgiveness, the Gospel, being good Christians, obedience — it’ll all be poured on pretty thick. Let’s not fool ourselves. They prey on our good faith and trust. Either stand up from the very beginning and be heard or just stay home.
I don’t know anything about all of this inside baseball, but if it’s true that there is an elite minority that controls the agenda and manipulates the processes and results – all to provide the illusion of choice and participation – then this may indeed be model of governance that uniquely reflects our American values. Just look back a few weeks at the RNC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd28_zXZF-Y) or the DNC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8BwqzzqcDs).
So maybe the current political process doesn’t represent the “will of the people” much better than does the decision of a philosopher-king… and that is sad but kind of funny in this instance because the philosopher-kings also hand-picked many of the bishops and metropolitans… and they seem to have a much better track record.
There are quite a few harangues on this blog about lack of leadership, things not getting done, things taking too long (e.g., what are we getting for our $50 assessment?)… but given all of these travails I think snail’s pace is entirely appropriate. Better to muddle around, mess up and learn from mistakes for a few more decades than to rush into a council, make drastic changes and force the will of certain groups on others so we can be “strong” and “united” and revel in our “uniquely American” church and “offer something” to all of the mother churches that are still under monarchy, dictatorship or, God forbid, “managed democracy.” There might not be as much to offer as we think despite all of the Beacon of Light/American exceptionalism talk that we will continue to hear through November.
Russian monks greet a newly tonsured one with the words: ” May you live according to your name”. The life of the patron saint sometimes reflects on the newly tonsured to some extent.
Metropolitan Jonah of Moscow, our Metropolitan’s patron saint, was elected as Metropolitan in 1431 and soon was dismissed by Isidore, Bulgarian in origin. After much tribulation, Metropolitan Jonah was re-installed as a Primate.
In order to fulfill his obedience, Metropolitan Jonah should be re-elected. Even if it won’t happen in Parma, OH, it will happen eventually. The longer it takes to people to realise the will of God, the more tribulations will happen to our church, unfortunately, until we repent, and recall him back as a Primate of the OCA.
Thank you, Veronica. That is indeed an intriguing piece of Church history connected with the present situation. If we believe in God Who orders all of history and especially the life of His Church, that this seems to mirror Met. Jonah’s current circumstances can be seen as no mere accident of coincidence.
Dear Sisters,
Love all of you and the Metropolitan, too! Thank you for being brave and thank Abbess Aemiliane for her bravery.
May God illumine those in darkness and may your wonderful monastery flourish and be a treasure for all of us in this desert. We need your loving prayers.
May all jurisdictionalism cease!
Since you like poetry, I send you the following, by the Serbian poet Jovan Hristić
To Phaedrus
And this, too, I want you to know, my dear Phaedrus: we lived
In times quite desperate. Out of tragedy
We made comedy, out of comedy tragedy;
And the real thing: sobriety, measure, wise sublimity,
Sublime wisdom, always evaded us. We were
Somewhere on no man’s lad, neither ourselves,
Nor someone else; always just a step or two away
From what we are, what should have been.
Oh, my dear Phaedrus, while you are walking
With virtuous souls, on the island of the blessed,
Mention our name, too, sometimes:
Let its sound spread out through the resonant air,
Let it at least try to reach the sky that it never touches,
Let our souls have rest leastways in your conversation.
(translated by Gavrilo Došen)
[In the original Serbian, Fedre is the title, and latinizing it seems somewhat strange in the translation]
Barbarians
Kai tora tha genoume horis barbarous.
Oi anthropoi autoi esan mia kapoia lysis
– Kavafi
Finally, the messengers came and said: The barbarians are coming.
In the city they are preparing to welcome them:
Delighted young men already exclaim their names
And hurry to praise the new gods.
Do the poets not tell us they are a kind of solution?
They write, even as we speak, songs to their glory
And await the day when they will read them aloud
While the marvelling barbarians (under arms)
Applaud, and commit them to memory.
They already see their songs written in capitals
Fixed above entrances to temples
From which they will oust weakened gods,
They see libraries overflowing with their books
From which they will erase stories that no longer speak to anyone.
But the poets do not realise that they will be the first to hang in the city square
Together with the young men who rushed to open the gates
And grant entrance to those whom they awaited so eagerly.
Because barbarians are barbarians, and no kind of solution.
_________________________________________________
About author here: https://sites.google.com/site/projectgoethe/Home/jovan-hristic
Love you all! You are brave!
A couple poems
by Jovan Hristić
Barbarians
Kai tora tha genoume horis barbarous.
Oi anthropoi autoi esan mia kapoia lysis
– Kavafi
Finally, the messengers came and said: The barbarians are coming.
In the city they are preparing to welcome them:
Delighted young men already exclaim their names
And hurry to praise the new gods.
Do the poets not tell us they are a kind of solution?
They write, even as we speak, songs to their glory
And await the day when they will read them aloud
While the marvelling barbarians (under arms)
Applaud, and commit them to memory.
They already see their songs written in capitals
Fixed above entrances to temples
From which they will oust weakened gods,
They see libraries overflowing with their books
From which they will erase stories that no longer speak to anyone.
But the poets do not realise that they will be the first to hang in the city square
Together with the young men who rushed to open the gates
And grant entrance to those whom they awaited so eagerly.
Because barbarians are barbarians, and no kind of solution.
https://sites.google.com/site/projectgoethe/Home/jovan-hristic
___________________________________________________
Poem by Saint Sava Nemanjić
LETTER ON TORMENT
I blended into witless mob
and leveled with them,
being destitute of good deeds
and rich in desire,
fulfilled with shame,
deprived of God’s freedom,
condemned by God,
mourned by angels,
laughed at by furies,
shaped by my own consciousness,
disgraced by the evil deeds of mine.
Before death I am dead,
before Judgment I judge myself,
before endless torment
I torment myself by despair.
( translated by Gavrilo Došen)
https://sites.google.com/site/projectgoethe/Home/sava-nemanjic
Come on people pretty please with sugar on top SNAIL MAIL!!
You don’t have to agree with everything the nun wrote, or with everything that I have ever written, or George M. or Rod D. or Bishop Tikhon, but if you believe even remotely that there is something even a teensy tiny bit wrong with Metropolitan Jonah being removed, snail mail your Bishop and CC other hierarchy!!!
Nothing fancy.
Something like:
Dear Vladyka,
Your blessing.
I am (first name last name) from Sts. (name of church) in the Diocese of (name of Diocese). I disagree with the removal/forced resignation of Metropolitan Jonah. I request that He be reinstated to His former position without further delay.
I kiss Your right hand,
In Christ,
name. (signature)
cc:
If you know elderly people in your church or others who don’t use the internet, pass along the addresses to them and encourage them to write also. Offer to take the letters and post it for them.
It doesn’t matter why you believe it was wrong…if you believe Met. Jonah was removed wrongly, you have a responsibility to make yourself heard. Your silence implies your consent.
Archdiocese of Washington, D.C.
The Right Reverend Alexander
Bishop of of Toledo and the Bulgarian Diocese
Locum Tenens of the Archdiocese of Washington
7124 River Rd
Bethesda, MD 20817
Email: alexander@bdoca.org
Albanian Archdiocese
The Most Reverend Nikon
Archbishop of Boston, New England,
and the Albanian Archdiocese
Locum tenens of the Diocese of the South
523 E. Broadway
South Boston, MA 02127-4415
Email: albboschurch@juno.com
Archdiocese of Canada
The Right Reverend Irénée
Bishop of Québec City
Administrator of the Archdiocese of Canada
31 LeBreton Street North
Ottawa, ON
K1R 7H1 CANADA
Email: bishopirenee@archdiocese.ca
Archdiocese of Western Pennsylvania
The Right Reverend Melchisedek
Bishop of Pittsburgh and Western Pennsylvania
PO Box 1769
Cranberry Township, PA
16066-1769
Email: melchisedek999@yahoo.com
Bulgarian Diocese
The Right Reverend Alexander
Bishop of of Toledo and the Bulgarian Diocese
Locum Tenens of the Archdiocese of Washington
286 E Woodsdale Ave.
Akron, OH 44301
Email: alexander@bdoca.org
Diocese of Alaska
The Most Reverend Benjamin
Archbishop of San Francisco and the West
Locum tenens of the Diocese of Alaska
PO Box 210569
Anchorage, AK 99521-0569
Email: vikenty@msn.com
Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania
The Most Reverend Tikhon
Archbishop of Philadelphia and Eastern Pennsylvania
144 St. Tikhon’s Rd.
Waymart, PA 18472
Email: bptikhon@doepa.org
Diocese of Mexico
The Most Reverend Alejo
Archbishop of Mexico City and Mexico
Río Consulado e Irapuato
Col. Peñón de los Baños
15520 México D.F
Email: obispoalejo@yahoo.com.mx
Diocese of New England
The Most Reverend Nikon
Archbishop of Boston, New England,
and the Albanian Archdiocese
Locum tenens of the Diocese of the South
PO Box 149
Southbridge, MA 01550
Email: bpnikon@aol.com
Diocese of New York and New Jersey
The Right Reverend Michael
Bishop of New York
and New York and New Jersey
Administrator of the Orthodox Church in America
33 Hewitt Avenue
Bronxville, NY 10708
Email: bishopmichael@nynjoca.org
Diocese of the Midwest
[The Right Reverend Matthias
Bishop of Chicago and the Midwest
on Leave of Absence]
Email: bishopmatthias@domoca.org
V. Rev. John Zdinak
Chancellor
927-933 N LaSalle Blvd
Chicago, IL 60610
Email: jankoz1953@gmail.com
Diocese of the South
The Most Reverend Nikon
Archbishop of Boston, New England,
and the Albanian Archdiocese
Locum tenens of the Diocese of the South
PO Box 191109
Dallas, TX 75219-1109
Email: bpnikon@aol.com
Diocese of the West
The Most Reverend Benjamin
Archbishop of San Francisco and the West
Locum tenens of the Diocese of Alaska
1520 Green St
San Francisco, CA 94123
Email: vikenty@msn.com
Romanian Episcopate
The Most Reverend Nathaniel
Archbishop of Detroit and the Romanian Episcopate
Locum Tenens of the Metropolitan See
PO Box 309
Grass Lake, MI 49240-0309
Email: nathaniel@roea.org
Address letters: “Your Grace,”
Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev of Volokolamsk
Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate
22 Danilovsky val.
Danilov monastery DECR MP,
115191 Moscow,
Russia
My general feeling is that we ought be imploring people in person to do the right thing.
a draft idea, corrections requested as to appropriateness.
Dear Vladika / Batushka.
As a humble member of the laity, and a dues paying member of the OCA, I bow before and implore you, brother in Christ, and ask forgiveness for necessarily taking your reading time on a matter of urgency to our Church.
Metropolitan Jonah was urged to resign as Primate of the Orthodox Church in America under the false assumption, as seen in his resignation letter which was posted on the OCA website, that entire Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America was demanding his resignation. This is the only reason the Metropolitan provided in his letter in which he resigns as “Primate”, a letter he signs as Archbishop of Washington. He asks for a new episcopal position from his brother bishops on the Synod. The assumption upon which the Jonah’s resignation was based is false. It should be nullified.
We now know, details having been published online on the website of the OCA http://www.oca.org, that the allegations against the Metropolitan are false. We also know them to be false by evidence posted by individuals shown not to have been harmed by any of the Metropolitan’s actions, and showing the Metropolitan’s handling of sensitive issues associated with, but not part of, the OCA to have been correct, loving and a model of Orthodox behavior in such instances.
Now, an All-American council is being called before its time to put the stamp of approval on these false actions against and essentially firing of the Metropolitan, a position which in the Church is generally held for life or unto senility or extreme infirmity, if that should be the case. Even in extreme infirmity, a Metropolitan might lead with wisdom.
I urge you to cancel the False Council of Parma, to reinstate the Metropolitan and grant him not only a detailed apology for the Synod’s previous actions against him, but to also grant him, in the future, the freedom to act as a Metropolitan by providing him with the financial, clerical and IT, housekeeping, and administrative support and assistance due to his position on location in Washington, D.C. or wherever the Primatial cathedral might designated to be.
I suggest selling the poorly located, hardly accessible Synodal country club on Syosset, Long Island and relocating the chancery in appropriate, publicly accessible quarters near public transportation, an airport and with parking near to whichever cathedral is designated Piratical now and in the future.
I love the OCA and believe it to be the best, most inclusive, anti-philatelist holy effort for North, South and Central American Orthodoxy. Our beautiful OCA has been not only besmirched by both previous and recent actions against the Metropolitan, but may have lost the OCA its leadership position in American Orthodoxy and its credibility in worldwide Orthodoxy, a position which rose under the leadership of Metropolitan Jonah. Shortly, the Orthodox Christian Laity conference will convene in Washington, D.C. where the Metropolitan was to be the keynote speaker of their important 25th year. As I write, the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America is convening in Chicago, an Assembly that was energized by Metropolitan Jonah taking a strong leadership position in terms of ideas in a previous meeting. Sometimes leadership does not equate with acquiesence.
The Metropolitan is still revered by Orthodox worldwide who miss his presence and voice, not to mention his loving humble character as a living Christian example to others. We wonder that he is treated as a defrocked priest who has committed some evil by persons of the Synod unknown. He is still loved within the OCA; although perhaps not by those whose attitudes and actions he sought to reform, even within the Synod. We need his leadership immediately and we love him. I say we because I know I am not alone. I again urge immediate restorative action. As a forgiving and humble soul, however mighty his voice and spirit, I pray that he can forgive the wrongs done him and return to us as our gentle shepherd and confessor.
Kissing your hand, I remain your sister in Christ,
Please change the word Piratical in the 6th paragraph to Primatial.
Please comment onthe letter and its contents. Upon reflection, the issue of Syosset should be in a separate letter
As a follow up to George P and everyone else, did you catch this on the recent “Officials” on the OCA website and signed by Jillions.
JONAH IS NOT RETIRED. HE HAS ONLY BEEN RELEASED FROM HIS DUTIES AS AB. OF WASHINGTON AND METROPOLITAN
What does this mean?
He is eligible to be nominated by any diocese (DOS????). He is even eligible to be nominated again as Metropolitan.
He also should attend the Council in Parma. He should be present. He should finally have a chance to look his fellow brother bishops in the eye and stand before us. He should be able to speak to us.
WE WANT JONAH IN PARMA!!!!!
Defend the Faith. says:
September 10, 2012 at 7:57 am
Does it mean that they can confine him to attending only the one church of their designation, and only to partake of Holy Communion there, and not where ever he may be invited to attend/serve/speak?
More “burning coals” on their heads?
It does not mean that he cannot attend the Parma Council. He is not a retired bishop. He is an active bishop without a diocese. If the Synod refuses him to attend the Council, then it should be very clear to almost everyone that they don’t want to deal with Jonah, they are afraid of his presence at the Council and the possibility that their plans to take the OCA in a totally different direction, ecumenism, modernism and soft of gay clergy, will be derailed.
The idea that they are “confining” him to St. Mark’s in Bethesda is the desperate action of a desperate Synod and Syosset. Nothing more and nothing less.
JONAH MUST ATTEND THE COUNCIL IN PARMA.
It’s a very good point. There’s no reason why he would be barred from attending the council. Someone should make sure he registers and gets there.
Maybe this is the real reason that the AAC will be held in an OCA church–to keep Jonah out. If he shows up, they will have “grounds” to depose him or cut off his paychecks for “disobedience” since he is restricted to St. Mark’s Bethesda. I guess he could stand across the street during the council but attend services at the local ROCOR church. Wouldn’t you like to see the crowd that would gather across the street?
Honestly I don’t know if the Synod or Jillions thought things out that carefully. Although now that it’s mentioned they would jump on the chance to stop his paychecks.
It would be something if +Jonah showed up at Parma. . . .with his lawyer and body armor. . .
Met. Jonah could come to Parma as long as he stayed outside the church.
James
As much as I hate to admit it, I think you may have hit on something there. I wouldn’t put it past the synod to try something like that.
I wouldn’t expect anything less.
JamesP,
After Parma +Jonah will have only one paycheck to receive in December. Next year he will be with no job, no payment, no medical insurance, no housing, and with three dependents to care about. He won’t be able to pray anywhere except St. Mark in Bethesda MD. He did not get a canonical release on August 13, 2012, when the Synod had a meeting about the Metropolitan, so he is still an OCA captive.
NO WORRIES! If he will show up in Parma, even in the precious church of Garklav the Priest, nothing worse could happen to him what didn’t happen already.
That’s true, by the way. There’s nothing more these miscreants can do to His Beatituded than they have already done.
I have never seen the restricting document. Does it exist?
Isidore of Kiev is also known as Isidore of Thessalonika. He was Greek. Some of his extant writings are online and downloadable at http://graeca.patristica.net/#t159 (vol # 159 of the Patrologia Graeca). His successor in Moscow was Bulgarian.
Isidore was one of the most infamous Byzantine prelates at the Robber Council of Ferrara Florence, on the opposite side of such defenders of the faith such as Saint Mark of Ephesus. Later, Isidore was a Roman Catholic Cardinal. If you read the Proceedings of the council of Ferrara Florence or any basic book on the robber council, you can get a concept of his insidious character.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isidore_of_Kiev
Here is Metropolitan Iona, who fought the Union with Rome:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonah_Metropolitan_of_Moscow
some more on the Russian version
http://www.sedmitza.ru/data/758/993/1234/5_60.pdf
http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Life/life6637.htm
Jonah was the beginning of the self proclaimed autocephaly of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Patriarch of Constantinople finally recognized the Patriarchate of Russia in 1589 or1590.
John Pappas wrote:
Well John, I asked him. You can see Fr. Ted’s response posted from his web page can be read below:
http://frted.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/metropolitan-jonah-offers-his-resignation/
Exactly what planet is Fr Bobosh living on? He thinks that the rape allegations didn’t play a significant factor in Jonah’s removal. It this guy stupid or does he think we are.
Maybe Bobosh needs to have his memory refreshed. Here is the OCA synod statement on +Jonah’s removal, aka, the STINKBOMB! http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
Honestly, enough of Fr. Ted’s creative view not only of history but of theology too. He is the poster boy for why the OCA is sinking fast by the bow. I really don’t need to be lectured by a man who’s wife sued him for divorce nor a man who permits active homosexuals to be leaders in his parish, the diocese and the national church. It all starts in the parish and Bobosh’s agenda meant that we all suffered.
Nikos,
I would encourage everyone who feels the way that you do to take a stroll over to Fr. Ted’s blog and let him know.
Let’s see if he has the guts to post it.
I say take the battle to him. Confront him with the truth and facts.
BTW, everybody, I snail mailed my letters, did you?
Taize or a church of the Diocese of the Midwest, Orthodox Church in America. If the latter, than it looks like Matthais has more work to do than silent prayers, communion clothes etc….
What is awful is that a bishop will suspend a deacon for having an opinion, but allows this priest to get away with redesigning the Orthodox Church.
Kyle Hunter says:
September 10, 2012 at 6:27 pm
See Stokoes’ comment on that link.
He writes like he’s “straight,”
or wants others to think that he is “the same as.”
Nikos, Nikos, Nikos…
You almost had me listening, but at the end you destroyed your own personal credibility by trying to tear down the good priest Fr. Bobosh.
I suppose the nom de plume ought to have been my first clue.
The more I read of the Good Reverend’s scribbles, the more I lose what little respect I had for him.
George, his English is about par for the OCA.
if you want a well-written and even sensible Troparion to Saint Herman in English, use the one in the ROCOR service to Saint Herman.
The geniuses of the OCA still sing’ of LIFTING high..”the Holy Cross you FIRMLY PLANTED in America!!
Yeah, right!
They used to have in their “rendition”of the Liturgy the prayer that the Bishop would be enabled: ”
“rightly to DEFINE’ the word of thy truth!” That was amended after about ten years. Also, they spoke not of the civil authorities, but of “those IN civil authority.’ and then they sometimes look out at a church full of Orthodox Christians and ask God to remember them AND all the Orthodox Christians, as if the Church wear full of jews or mormons and the Priest is remembering them alongside all Orthodox Christisns! and so onl (You (Jews and Mormons, Anglicans etc.) and all ORTHODOX Christians, may the Lord God remember….”
The OCA and the Antiochians go on endlessly with commemorations at that Great Entrance, while all the original text of the service book had was ‘All US Orthodox Christians, may the Lord God..”
The purpose of the Great Entrance was to bring the gifts from the Prothesis, usually right next door on in a room next to the Altar DIRECTLY to the Altar and not to make a semi-circular trip around the Church in order to transfer the gifts from the side of the Altar to the center of the altar table.
Admittedly, it’s Byzantine pomp at its most extreme, but we might recall that at one point in what is today the trendiest of the trendy, namely, The Rite Of The Great Church,’ deacons actually had wings sewn unto, or otherwise clipped to, the back of their stikharia as they proceeded in he
Great Entrance as Angels!
In the Greek and Antiochian tradition the Great Entrance goes around the Church in a semicircle to symbolically draw the Faithful into the offering of the Eucharist. Remember Liturgy means the work of the people. The Faithful are not spectators, but active participants in the Divine Liturgy. Originally, the people brought their gifts of bread and wine and placed them on a table in the Narthex. At the Great Entrance the deacons brought the bread and wine for the Eucharist through the Nave into the Altar. That is why the Bishop does not participate in the Great Entrance, but stands on the Ambon to receive the gifts and place them on the Holy Table to be consecrated. Only during the Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts do we do the Great Entrance the same way that we do the Little Entrance.
Archpriest John W. Morris
Archpriest John W. Morris, this statement of yours is untrue:
“Originally, the people brought their gifts of bread and wine and placed them on a table in the Narthex.
Your Grace:
I do not know how to politely tell you this, but you have been misinformed. Look at Robert Taft’s history of the Great Entrance, or any book on the history of the Divine Liturgy and you will very quickly discover that I am right on this issue. The people brought bread and wine and put them in the Narthex. At the Cathedral of Holy Wisdom they had a special room off to the side for this. The deacons selected the best bread and wine and brought them to the Altar. That is the origin of the Great Entrance.
Fr. John W. Morris
The transfer of bread and wine to the altar from the offertory is, indeed, ancient. ORIGINALLY, the offertory was located outside the Altar, to its left side in a separate room,the offertory, called in Greek “narthex”, in Slavonic, predlozhenie, trapeza, or pritvor.
This should not be confused with the later narthex or “porch” conventionally located at or outside the western end of the nave, the place of the catechumens and of litiyas. To carry bread and wine from that original offertory, or narthex room to the left of the altar at the Cathedral of the Holy Wisdom, one hardly had to march through the nave AT ALL, but only take a trip a little longer than today’s trip from the offertory table within the Altar to the Altar table itself. Today, both Greeks and Russians proceed as was done originally, by the shortest route possible, from the offertory table to the Altar table. I think only the Antiochians teach that by having the bread and wine pass by the Fatithful closely , rather than at a distance, the people “participate” more or more axtively. This it seems to me, is a variant of the Latin idea that one gets credit for seeing things. I seem to remember that one actually could get an indulgence by looking at the Host, while in the Orthodox Church, the Faithful try NOT to look at it. Mp. watching clergy parade around in the nave is not to participate in anything but watching.
So, lest anyone reading think that “originally” the gifts of bread and wine were placed on a table at the west end of the church, in a place now misnamed “narthex”, and that clergy ‘originally” brought gifts from ANY place but one a short distance from north of the Altar to the Altar, I suggest, most respectfully, that Archpriest John Morris correct his statement by, at least, adding, after “narthex”, “not to be confused in any way with a narthex in today’s churches.”
Reply to Bishop Tikhon:
Your Grace:
The most authoritative study of the Great Entrance is Robert F. Taft: The Great Entrance: A history of the Transfer of Gifts and other Preanaphoral Rites of the Liturgy of St. John Chyrsostom; , 2nd ed : Rome Pnt. Instititum studiorum Orientalium, 1978. It clearly states on page 14 that “originally, Byzantine churches had, a diaconicon of sorts not besides the sanctuary, but elsewhere usuall the seonarthex. Here the faithful left their gifts…” Therefore the most recognized scholarly sources indicate that my original argument was correct. Whoever told you that the way we do the Great Entrance in the Antiochian Tradition comes from Latin influence was only expressing their ignorance of the history of the Divine Liturgy.
Archpriest John W. Morris.
Is a Latin Jesuit scholar to be our highest authority in this matter? His work has caused mischief in our ranks by people slavishly and undiscerningly following him to recapture what he says was ‘originally’ done.
Priest Justin Frederick says (September 16, 2012 at 2:26 pm):
‘Is a Latin Jesuit scholar to be our highest authority in this matter?’
Why not? He’s the very best contemporary authority on byzantine liturgical history and practice. To dismiss his work because of his religion is an ad hominem fallacy of the most transparent variety.
AND: ‘His work has caused mischief in our ranks by people slavishly and undiscerningly following him to recapture what he says was ‘originally’ done.’
That’s not Fr Robert Taft’s fault. I know the man and several of his students. FrRT would be the last man in the world to suggest that ‘original’ practices ought to be revived uncritically, as he consistently compares and contrasts liturgical customs over the centuries and in many cultures, noting along the way how various concepts and adaptations changed/improved christian worship in response to various concerns.
There are a great many things we do in worship which deserve a far better, deeper, more helpful and practical explanation than the contributions of, oh, say, Gogol. This is not to say that there aren’t ‘mystical’ and ‘symbolic’ liturgical gestures, for there surely are. It’s just that some customs whose erstwhile practicality has been forgotten have often (usually recently) been invested with meanings they were never intended to convey.
Here’s just one interesting thing about the Great Entrance. Our contemporary practice is that the priest and deacon recite the Hymn of the Cherubim three times and bow three times before the Holy Table before going to the Prothesis.
The rubric clearly says to recite the hymn and bow three times, which is just so slightly ambiguous as to result in a misunderstanding, and we seem to have forgotten that this means only that there are three bows, not three recitations of the hymn. The mistake is as easy to make in Greek as it is in English, without a slight expansion of the rubrical note.
Our byzantine Passion Week and Paschal customs are a mare’s nest of liturgical confusion, but someone other than the just recently retired FrRT will have to write about that.
BTW: FrRT’s book on the Great Entrance is only ONE of the five volumes of his magnum opus on the byzantine Divine Liturgy.
Fr Justin, you just stepped in a big pile of fallacious reasoning.
Don’t worry, it comes off 🙂
Archpriest John W. Morris wrote
“Whoever told you that the way we do the Great Entrance in the Antiochian Tradition comes from Latin influence was only expressing their ignorance of the history of the Divine Liturgy.”
1. No one ever told me that the way the Antiochians do “the Great Entrance in the Antiochian Tradition (sic) comes from Latin influence.”
2. No one I know would ever capitalize “tradition” when referring to Antiochian peculiarities of liturgical usage.
3. I don’t believe the Jesuit Archimandrite Robert Taft would assert ANY practice of the Cathedral of the Holy Wisdom proves that the practice was the “original” practice or demonstrates the way anything was “originally” done.
4. Totally apart from the origin of anything or the priority of practices of one Local Church over another, I assert that the way that the Great Entrance is commonly done in the temples of the Antiochian Archdiocese, that is, an elaborate parade withe the bread and wine FROM the Altar, through the nave TO the West end of the nave and BACK AGAIN does not in any way at all mirror or repeat the Great Entrance as described by Archimandrite Robert Taft, ivan Dmitrevsky, Michail Skaballanovich, or Archbishop Benjamin of Nizhni-Novgorod and Arzammas.
5. The current Antiochian practice, regardless of its origins, has been justified here by Archpriest John W. Morris in a way totally consistent with and mirroring modern RomanCatholic liturgical values as expressed in the modern Liturgical Movement and exemplifying modern Latin piety.
6. Here are some of the ways these Antiochian practices of today differ from the way the way the Great Entrance was done at Agia Sophia and the way it was originally done:
A. The Antiochians prepare the bread and wine for the Liturgy in the Altar in a service with its own blessing, prayers and dismissal, before the Divine Liturgy. This preparatory service is done without any lay participation in it whatsoever
B. Bread and wine for the Liturgy are brought into the Altar for the Divine Liturgy before both the preparatory service (Prothesis or Proskomede) and the Liturgy proper.
C . Bread and wine are not born directly from the table of oblation to the Altar table, but are REMOVED from the Altar and paraded around the nave of the temple amid various exclamations and acclamations before being returned into the Altar and being placed on the Altar table.
I agree with Monk James that Taft is A respected authority on the history of rites, and that he, as a scholar, would not advocate that anything be done in the Church today in order to make today’s practices coincide with ANY “original” practices because of their being “original.”
Bishop Tikhon, you would have been appreciated in ROCOR. It saddens me to see your witty critiques get “thumbs-downs” here!
Eis polla eti, Despota!
The neverending unkind remarks and snide comments rarely are witty. It is sad to read them, knowing that an astute, educated, basically good person is buried out-of-sight beneath them.
Observer! I recommend some reading.In 2008, Maya Kucherskaya, a young, devout Russian Orthodox writer and novelist living in Moscow (who however got her PhD at UCLA) published a wonderful collection of spiritual anecdotes and advice accumulated in the modern Russian Church. The book was entitled “SOVREMENNYJ PATERIK (A Contemporary Patericon): Chetenie dl’a upavshykh v unynie (Reading for those fallen into despair.) It’s been translated and published in English (you can get it at Amazon), under the title: “FAITH AND HUMOR: Notes from Muscovy.” Kindle version is very cheap.
Here is one excerpt which shows how a rather famous spiritual counselor in Moscow interacts with the Faithful in his parish:
“”Olga Petrovna, a great admirer of Father Mitrophanes, once approached him and said smiling shyly, “Father, you are…” She stumbled momentarily, searching for words.
“You are like Saint Seraphim of Sarov.”
The priest shook his head back and forth and stared intently at Olga Petrovna.
“Wait a minute, and I’ll explain why you think this,” he said and went into the altar.
He didn’t come back for a long time. Olga Petrovna even became a bit nervous and wondered what the priest could be doing in the altar. She wondered whether he was back there praying for divine inspiration and tried to guess what he might say to her. Would he explain to her, perhaps, in what way he was like Saint Seraphim?
Finally the priest returned and said, ‘It’s because you’re an idiot.”
Here’s another one, Observer:
“”Once a woman came to church for only the second time in her life and she happened to come to confession before Father Mitrophanes. She said to him, “I have committed every sin in the book.”
The abbot wanted to help the woman overcome her dangerous delusions and asked, “Have you committed adultery?”
“I don’t remember,,” the woman replied, surprised.
“How come? Were you drunk?” the abbot persisted.
At first the woman came to church because she liked the priest, but in time she became sincerely devout and began to attend church regularly, though, true enough, she went to a different church, not Father Mitrophanes’.
Of course, this sort of thing would be totally unacceptable in the Victorian Parlor kind of spiritual milieu which some define as Christian.
That is a wonderful book, although I think many would find it shocking or scandalous.
Vladyko Bless!
Have you ever considered having your own blog?
Anyway, FAITH AND HUMOR: Notes from Muscovy is an excellent and very funny book. Ordered it on electronic format for less than five bucks U.S.
A fantastic recommendation.
Many thanks.
GW the Occidental Guido
P.S. Not really appropriate for the new convert or the overly pious hyperdox.
One thing pops out of Fr. Ted’s article and responses: “The Gift of Autocephaly (i.e. The Dream of the OCA). This was the major problem with Metropolitan Jonah’s re-definition and quasi-connection with Moscow. I think that the Synod and the MC started to believe and did believe that Met. Jonah was a traitor to the cause and that they could not control him and that all this other stuff about bad administrative skills, rash decisions, etc, were just used to get him out.
This was his sin that he needed to be punished for with his removal. What a heretic! To actually betray the cause! This one thing keeps coming up with Fr. Ted and explains so much of Fr. Hopko’s and MS actions. I could be wrong, but this seems to be the main issue that keeps coming up.
What do you guys think?
Peter
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -Joseph Goebbels
How bad do things have to get before people say “No!”?
It’s been working for the OCA for decades.
GW
Danny, Danny, Danny,
I will try harder next time, but I doubt that you will ever get it. BTW, when are you going to finish your iconostasis in Dayton? 😉
Nikos says:
September 10, 2012 at 11:18 am
Maybe that was because, as he wrote, he couldn’t see virtue in marriage
(a great mystery of Christ and His Church, as St. Paul informs us).
Just how, then, can he be able to pastor the married couples in his parish?
So, as an Orthodox priest:
Somebody earlier in this thread referred to “a man [Bobosh] who’s wife sued him for divorce.”
I quarrel with this.
It should be “whose.”
I don’t quarrel with the rest of it.
Thanks, Fr. Pat, for that correction.
I had to chuckle at myself for that.
It had to be because of a senior moment and because who’s and whose sound the same.
Can you please provide us with a citation for where exactly he made that comment about marriage, and the exact wording, if you would?
Yes, anna_of_boston, as follows:
Source: BibleGateway.com
No, sorry, PdnNJ, I’m afraid you somehow misunderstood me.
I was asking you for specifics about where Fr. Bobosh wrote that he couldn’t see virtue in marriage. Hopefully you or Fr. Reardon can supply a quote and citations for something Fr. Bobosh has written that says this.
I am thinking, though, that St. Paul doesn’t always exactly give marriage a ringing endorsement, right? “So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.” (1 Corinthians 7:38)
Somehow not the way we think these days.
Anyway, I’d appreciate your follow-up.
“Homosexuality is no vice because heterosexuality is not virtue.”
Yes, this is the quotation I have read in several places.
I have no idea, of course, if Father Ted actually said that. It is so stupid, on the face of it, that I am reluctant to ascribe it to him.
“Homosexuals are human beings and thus are made in the image and likeness of God and given the same Spirit to breathe that all humans are given. And they live in the same fallen world as all heterosexuals. I don’t conceive of homosexuality as a sin because I don’t think heterosexuality is a virtue. On the other hand I do believe that homosexuals like heterosexuals do sin and can repent, can love, can forgive, can pray, can believe, can do good and can do evil, and can practice self denial and self control. ”
http://frted.wordpress.com/2008/07/31/christian-ministry-and-homosexual-rights/
I have some apologizing to do, first to Fr. Bobosh for misquoting and misunderstanding subject passage of his, and then to the readers here for misleading them with what I posted here based on that misquote/misunderstanding. If I can dig up the link to where Fr. Bobosh wrote it on his website (which will give the actual context in which it was written), I’ll post it here. (Maybe George M. already has it.) Even so, allow me to add my understanding of the issue as follows:
Heterosexuality is a virtue for the very reason that God created human beings heterosexual, i.e., both male and female, and then gave them the command to increase and multiply which can only happen heterosexually. I can not at all see how homosexuality fits into that “picture” of God’s obvious will for humanity which is also concretely revealed physiologically. I don’t know how even the reality of human sinfulness would or could change that “picture.” As far as St. Paul talking about marriage “vs.” celibacy, I believe he says that both are equal in the Lord’s eyes, but for anyone who wants to dedicate their life totally to Christ, celibacy is the best choice for that because having a family entails too many “distractions.”
PdnNJ,
Let me sharpen that a bit. Sexual union between a male and female is rightly ordered according to nature. Sexual union between same-sex couples is intrinsically disordered (to use the Catholic phrase) as a quick look at the biological plumbing makes clear.
This distinction deals with the ordering of creation, not virtue.
Virtue enters with what a person does with sexual desire, and the main virtue is chastity. Chastity applies to the heterosexually oriented person as well as the person dealing with same-sex attraction.
Fr. Ted’s statement makes no sense at all.
Fr. Hans:
First of all I want to say that I have to be careful of what I write and how I say/word it here because, according to the “Peter Principle,” I am in danger of rising to the level of my incompetence, and “above my pay grade.”
Be that as it may, I would like to say that “where I am coming from” is my understanding that God created everything good and for the accomplishment of His holy will for mankind, and so living in accordance with that will is what virtue is, and therefore, with respect to human sexuality, since He created human beings heterosexual, living heterosexually is the good and virtue.
I am not capable of passing judgement on what Fr. Ted Bobosh writes about pastoring “homosexuals”, but I am in total disagreement with him where he says “I don’t conceive of homosexuality as a sin because I don’t think heterosexuality is a virtue,” which comes across to me as totally counterintuitive, and a greatly misleading (“dangerous”?) mindset to have when pastoring his flock and individuals in the area of human sexuality.
(I hope that that all makes some sense to you.)
————-
And on this great and holy day commemorating
The Universal Exaltation of the Precious and Life-Giving Cross:
O Lord, save Your people, And bless You inheritance.
Grant victories to the Orthodox Christians Over their adversaries.
And by virtue of Your Cross, Preserve Your habitation.
Fr. Hans: Where I wrote, in my post immediately above, “living heterosexually is the good and virtue” I meant to say “living heterosexually according to His will is the good and virtue.”
PdnNJ, I knew what you were trying to say, I just wanted to separate the concept of virtue from orientation (not that I believe that such a thing as sexual ‘orientation’ really exists, at least in popular terminology anyway).
Since you don’t want to judge Fr. Ted’s statement, I will. The statement is just facile posturing. Fr. Ted is too worried about offending those who insist that sexual desire is an ontological category, a primary constituent of self-identity and personhood. That’s why he defines natural relations as something they are not; it’s a way to appear open-minded. The statement certainly sounds clever, maybe even wise to people who don’t think much, but in the end it is nonsense.
Virtue requires volition. Same-sex attraction is a passion and may well be unchosen (many of the passions are). Nonetheless, here is where the distinctions between people are of less importance — heterosexual vs. homosexual, alcoholic vs. sober, greedy vs. generous, and so forth — since the discipline required for growth in virtue applies to all alike.
Thank you, Fr. Hans, I appreciate your reply.
I don’t get how such foolishness doesn’t get immediately silenced by the hierarchy. Why are ecclesiastical heads not rolling over this?
When will Orthodox pastors and hierarchs in this country start telling people about putting salvation first, how to live a life pleasing to God, etc., like they do in Greece and Russia? Why such political posturing when the one thing needful is so neglected among all us former Protestants?
Why aren’t there more contemporary pastors like Fr. Josiah? Elder Sophrony? Elder Paisios? There’s definitely a “flavor” to them– they’re not out to show how spiritual or intelligent they are, they’re just obeying Christ by telling people how to really live as Christians. For what little it’s worth, for me, you could pretty much get rid of every podcast on AFR except Postcards from Greece and The Arena. Too much hot air and not enough patristic fragrance.
Isaac Crabtree says:
September 15, 2012 at 9:10 am
Sorry, Isaac, but I don’t agree with that. I’m a devoted daily listener of AFR and I find all the homilies there especially good, and all with, based on, or emanating “patristric fragrance.”
(PS: Sophrony’s book “His Life is Mine” is second only to the Holy Gospel for me.)
Someone’s protesting a little too much, don’t you think?
Actually, to be fair, Bobosh spoke the truth here. Most likely this was inadvertent, the truth just happened to coincide with what was expedient in this context. Still it doesn’t hurt to recognize the truth. We all know that Jonah was not removed for his mishandling of sexual misconduct investigations (as “The Holy Synod” claimed in a recent letter), whether the cases involved nuns, rape, or otherwise. It was the OCA synod that lied about this, not Bobosh. He’s telling the truth on this one. He has enough inside facts that he KNOWS this was never one of the motivating factors for abusing Jonah, and certainly not the reason for forcing his resignation.
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144 St. Tikhon’s Rd.
Waymart, PA 18472
Email: bptikhon@doepa.org
Diocese of Mexico
The Most Reverend Alejo
Archbishop of Mexico City and Mexico
Río Consulado e Irapuato
Col. Peñón de los Baños
15520 México D.F
Email: obispoalejo@yahoo.com.mx
Diocese of New England
The Most Reverend Nikon
Archbishop of Boston, New England,
and the Albanian Archdiocese
Locum tenens of the Diocese of the South
PO Box 149
Southbridge, MA 01550
Email: bpnikon@aol.com
Diocese of New York and New Jersey
The Right Reverend Michael
Bishop of New York
and New York and New Jersey
Administrator of the Orthodox Church in America
33 Hewitt Avenue
Bronxville, NY 10708
Email: bishopmichael@nynjoca.org
Diocese of the Midwest
[The Right Reverend Matthias
Bishop of Chicago and the Midwest
on Leave of Absence]
Email: bishopmatthias@domoca.org
V. Rev. John Zdinak
Chancellor
927-933 N LaSalle Blvd
Chicago, IL 60610
Email: jankoz1953@gmail.com
Diocese of the South
The Most Reverend Nikon
Archbishop of Boston, New England,
and the Albanian Archdiocese
Locum tenens of the Diocese of the South
PO Box 191109
Dallas, TX 75219-1109
Email: bpnikon@aol.com
Diocese of the West
The Most Reverend Benjamin
Archbishop of San Francisco and the West
Locum tenens of the Diocese of Alaska
1520 Green St
San Francisco, CA 94123
Email: vikenty@msn.com
Romanian Episcopate
The Most Reverend Nathaniel
Archbishop of Detroit and the Romanian Episcopate
Locum Tenens of the Metropolitan See
PO Box 309
Grass Lake, MI 49240-0309
Email: nathaniel@roea.org
Now, I agree that Jonah was pressured to resign. But, he didn’t have to resign.[!]
What happens if he became Bishop of another diocese and the pressure gets too great? Will he resign?
I’m sorry, but Bp Tikhon is right here; he quit. I don’t know the reasons; neither do any of us. Did the Synod threaten his parents’ livelihood? Possibly. I am also led to believe that they are not in poverty either.
So, did someone threaten something greater? Maybe. Did he quit to protect someone from a greater calamity? Possibly. But he has done so and allowed us to think he quit simply under some political pressure.
Unless some additional information comes out, it appears to me that he quit his office as Metropolitan. The ultimate reason why better be a good one. Here’s why: if he was the last standing traditionalist bishop in the Synod, then he quit knowing that the “forces of evil” would overrun the Synod. And why? Who knows at this point.
I am not a supporter of the “old way of doing things at Syosset”. Not by a long shot. I am a big supporter of Metr Jonah in general. But, in reflecting upon this issue, it seems to me that Metr Jonah’s rationale for quitting better be a really good one. Because, when the horrible bishops of the Synod are, in turn, promoted to Metropolitan, or unleashed upon the OCA laity, then the guilt and responsibility for that will lie on Metr Jonah’s shoulders.
And, if Metr Hilarion Alfeyev is right, then the relative lack of protest from the various precincts of the OCA laity shows the apathy on this issue. Then, the OCA *as a whole* will get what it deserves as a product of apathy.
All I can say is: it better have been a good reason.
The forces of evil had already overrun the OCA. That is not “on his shoulders”. It would be great if some people in the OCA acted to remove them. Not blame +Met Jonah. ……. Tooo easy!
Michael C, what livelihood are you talking about? His father is seriously ill. I have yet to meet his father. His mother can get around, but with difficulty using a walker. I have yet to meet his sister; I believe it is because somebody has to stay with his father, that much I can figure out.
It would be wiser to recognize and even criticize a bad rhetorical, rather than respond to one.
Lola, you are so wise.
Michael C,
+Jonah did have to resign if all his brother bishops wanted him too. That is the point-did they ALL say they wanted him to?
Unless I’m wrong, he didn’t have to resign simply because the bishops wanted him to. If he violated the canons, then they can bring charges in a spiritual court. If he didn’t, they have no right to say, “We just don’t think you’re working out.”
Good point, if Jonah sinned in signing a resignation letter under duress and which he knew (or suspected) contained untruths, then he should be brought before a spiritual court. At the same time, since we know that the Synodal letter of July 16 (first put out in a signed fashion by Bp Matthias [who says God doesn’t have a sense of humor?]) did contain lies and slanders, then they should be brought up before a spiritual court.
Whoa, whoa, WHOA! George and Michael, Met. Jonah did not have to resign just because all or some of the other bishops wanted him to, but you’re both forgetting that his only other options were going to SLI for six months or being suspended without pay.
If he had resisted all of those, he could have wound up in a situation where not even Moscow would be able to help him. He still would have been stuck working with the Synod after that and possibly even a spiritual court stacked against him.
If Met. Jonah had only himself to worry about, he might have made a different choice, but I do not blame him for making the decision he made. Yes, I wish things had been different, but he had a choice between Scylla and Charybdis. Perhaps he let himself be wounded in order to save what he could. The people who forced this are the bad guys here.
The resignation letter does not contain any known or suspected lies. Met. Jonah merely stated something had been conveyed to him by Fr. John Jillions. That is true. Whether or not what Fr. Jillions said is a lie does not factor into the truth or untruth of what Met. Jonah said. That’s just what the Chancellor told him.
If Fr. Jillions thinks unicorns are real and says so, there’s a difference between saying “Unicorns are real!” despite knowing they are not, and saying “Fr. Jillions says, ‘Unicorns are real'” despite knowing they are not. The first is simply a lie, the second is a statement of fact regarding what Fr. Jillions said about unicorns.
Helga,
What I got from George M.’s post was the following:
– it was tongue in cheek
– it was working from the assumption that every person on the synod and MP was working with purely altruistic motives and had absolutely no ulterior motives and conspired with no other person for any reason.
– assuming the above point is true, then if the synod was doing what it was supposed to be doing and they were not working under some sort of plan to coerce or distress or force Metropolitan Jonah to resign through un-canonical means, they should have convened a spiritual court to depose him since he “didn’t have to resign”…..get it? They were obligated to, and they didn’t. They acted irresponsibly and in bad faith. This is yet another point where their contrived story falls apart.
This is what I am getting from George M’s comment…feel free to correct me if I misunderstood or implied something that you were not trying to communicate George M.
Thanks for helping me out, George P. I guess I was a little hypersensitive!
But in this case, who would constitute the spiritual court? Bishops of the OCA? Metr. Philip? who?
I agree with you Michael. He said he didn’t have the temperment. There is nothing horrible about that as fact. In fact, it is a wise man that can see his own weaknesses.
Maybe some of you have talked with him…I don’t know.
“he didn’t have the temperment” = he’s not an immoral crook
This is one of those things I don’t have a good metric for, and I suspect a number of other Orthodox don’t either. Namely when, if ever, is it proper to make public protest? On one hand if we calumniate the Holy Synod…denigrate it (even if it’s actions are blameworthy) we risk striving against the peace of Christ’s church and thus war not against errant bishops but against Christ Himself…and yet at the same time it is not right to remain silent if we are witnesses to an evil, perhaps in ignorance, done against another not able (or perhaps not willing) to defend himself.
The uncertainty between sympathies for Met. Jonah’s person and situation and the desire to trust God and not take matters into our own hands and judgments lest haply we be found to fight against God creates a kind of paralysis of the will. We know what we feel…we know what we would prefer we’re just not sure what we should do…especially with respect to protest…vent on our blogs, write our bishops/administrators, stir up our parishes so that they are practically ready to revolt. How does one figure out how when to be silent but prayerful, and when to “go to the streets” as it were…when to pray in hope in secret and when to do like was done with erring bishops in St. Mark of Ephesus’ day?
When is protest Christian duty…and when is it brattish self will? I don’t know….I’m probably one of the near paralyzed….though I’ve written a couple of emails …that’s about as far as I dared… to do much more seems to risk fomenting schism, or disrespect to the office of bishop, to hubris about knowing better than others, etc. which is not good…and yet some expression of malcontent at what’s happened seems needed as well…but then again who wants to go back to being Protestant and determining “God’s will” for us by a 3/4 majority vote.
It’s just a hot mess from where I stand.
It is never a sin to ask sincere questions. It is never a sin to point to truth. Our bishops need to answer some questions. Our bishops need to be reminded of what is true.
I am certainly no expert, but I would think our duty comes when we observe over and over, non-cononical removals by leaders of the church. When we observe homosexual unions being accepted at communion. That is heresy is it not? I thought all bets are off when we reach heresy and we recognize it being played out in front of us. Are we not collaborators at that moment if we remain? Almost all the Bishops in the OCA are compromised. It is IN FRONT of us. We cannot stand in front of God and pretend ignorance. This doesn’t take revolt…. it doesn’t take one word. It takes walking out. Silently or not.
It does IMHO take holding them account for what they have become and what they have done.by showing up at the AAC and voting for NO Confidence or Met Jonah,which ever. I don’t think the OCA will survive much longer anyway. But it lets the Orthodox World know our pledge to traditional Orthodoxy and not the present mockery. And you might force an Apology to the world for their very public SLANDER of +Met Jonah.
It might also force them to release +Met Jonah rather than ruin the rest of his life. He cannot work with these people of evil intention. All they would do is put him right back in lockdown mode. Is that what you want?
The OCA has no intention of cleaning itself up ,especially by holding the AAC in a church. Do they think that will count in front of God for their sins? Ha!
I never thought I would be writing on a blog like this, or even using any of my time looking at the leaders of my church. But I thought wrong. It is too ugly to ignore and to watch the pain inflicted on the innocent. I just don’t know what to say to priests who don’t want to know. But I know, I don’t want to know them! I am walking.
Seraphim98,
Your feelings that you just explained are exactly what many of the bishops knowingly take advantage of. They know people would rather accept something wrong than “make trouble” in the Church.
When they do something so clearly wrong, we must stand up and challenge it. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.” (Luke 17:3) And remember, just saying “we’re sorry” is not repenting.
Seraphim98
Your point is well taken. It reflects prayerful and sincere reflection.
A major point of contention (for me at least) is that Metropolitan Jonah was not permitted to make statements or to communicate with the general public on His own behalf.
If He was allowed to communicate, to preach, to continue Christ’s ministry and not be dismissed into the ecclesiastical nether as though He has never existed, then He could say on His own whether or not He wants the position back. He could tell us the truth on His own. Since He can not, since He has been forbidden, we must, by necessity assume the worst. We must assume the worst because we know the darkness and sinfulness within our own hearts. We know that we ourselves are not perfect, that others are not perfect, and God makes perfect. It is a pretty good guess that if it looks and smells like you stepped in crap, chances are good, you probably did. Isn’t that proof enough?
I like your point George P. . . . “Because he is not allowed to speak, we will speak for him”. The difference is not many people are tempered like +Jonah, he speaks rather softly. But when “we” speak it comes out in force-which may not be so nice. Nor should it. If it’s true that our Bishops’ blunder of not being willing to work with +Jonah, thus running him out ultimately leads the OCA to loosing it’s autocephaly, it will be the fault of the Bishops. And that story will go down in history. The volume that is starting and will be coming to Parma as a result of ill will may hurry along the journey to Constantinople. . . .
colette-
Tragically, yes. The road to Constantinople will be a short and swift one. Direct, non-stop, no meals, no movies. Most sadly – no mercy for the OCA. The synod has no idea what they are playing with.
Since I appreciate gallows humor, I will laugh at those who are led in chains across the Bosporus, all the while whispering in their ear: “It’s all a mistake! It wasn’t supposed to end this way! But we’re autocephalous! We had the right to take down a Primate!”
Colette, that’s called “unintended consequences.”
Although I have a lot of respect for Met. Jonah, capitalizing “He” and “His,” is a more than a little too far, don’t you think?
Also Anonymous-
I was taught to do this by my grandfather who became an Athonite priest monk after my grandmother died. This is the way clergy and hierarchy are addressed he told me. I truly don’t know whether or not it is correct. I suppose I do it more out of tender love and affection for my beloved grandfather who has departed this life so many years ago more than anything else. My apologies if it offends. Some habits are hard to break.
Also Anonymous says (September 12, 2012 at 5:14 pm):
‘Although I have a lot of respect for Met. Jonah, capitalizing “He” and “His,” is a more than a little too far, don’t you think?’
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an antique russian custom based on european conventions emplaced before the invention of movable type and color printing. Even now, in russian correspondence, it’s considered a mark of extreme respect and subservience to capitalize you, your, yours — always in the frenchified ‘formal’ usage.
Modern Greek has the same problem. There was never a distinction between familiar and formal 2nd-person address prior to the 19th century in Greek.
Before the 15th century, the names of the nobility were handwritten in red ink. Once mechanically printed papers were made possible — but only in black ink — it was thought that names earlier written in red ought to be WRITTEN IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS so readers couldn’t miss them.
But royalty is generally gone from the world, and it’s absurd for the hierarchy to (expect) be treated as royalty now, and an expression of ecclesial confusion for us now to regard them so.
Michael C., in the way you are using the phrase “have to resign,” no one ever “has to resign.” Hypothetically, even if they were prepared to use a gun, he could have died or let others die while refusing to sign a resignation letter. I haven’t yet heard anyone (except perhaps Bishop Tikhon on this blog) suggest that the value of Jonah remaining Metropolitan rose to this level.
What most people mean by “had to resign” in this context is that the man had an ethical system that required him to resign. Maybe it had to do with submission to the consensus of the synod. Maybe it had to do with his own health breaking down after years of strategic emotional abuse by the church. Maybe it had to do with concern for his family and their health during a critical time.
Force was applied. We know that he was not planning to resign. It was a forced resignation, even by the OCA synod’s own admission. The issue here is whether folks in the OCA believe this force was ethical, moral, canonical, legal, and of the Holy Spirit, and ultimately whether it is something that they are willing to accept in the Church.
Why do you people continue with this + Jonah thing? IT’S OVER. His fellow hierarchs concluded that he wasn’t right to head the OCA. End of story. I believe in a 4 year term for Met. like the Pres. of U.S. If he’s re-elected to serve after 4 years, so be it. Not as big a deal as you converts are making this out to be. + Jonah is trying to go with Moscow now and let him go. Now, the Episcopal Assembly is going on which is a much bigger threat to all of the Orthodox in N. America than anything else. Istanbul & Moscow are trying to divvy up all the Orthodox worldwide under themselves. Not allowing autocephalous churches to operate independently as canon law dictates nor as the Holy Apostles originated churches to operate. This is the threat to all of Orthodoxy; not a convert bishop who failed.
First of all, his “fellow hierarchs” did NOT conclude that he “wasn’t right to head the OCA.” According to NJ, Bp Michael begged him to reconsider.
I’ll take a “convert” to Orthodoxy over you any day.
They know how to “speak” the faith, which you obviously don’t.
You’re too self-absorbed to see that, from and since the very beginning, ALL Orthodox christians are “converts.”
(I know that’s like “talking to the wall,” but I wanted to say it anyway.)
Hear! Hear!
BTW…The head honcho…you know, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, JESUS CHRIST, LORD AND SAVIOR- He never converted. He wasn’t even a Christian. He certainly wasn’t Orthodox. He was *gasp* JEWISH!!!!!
They were first called Christians in Antioch…look it up.
Look up also where they were first called Orthodox.
Phil says that the EA is the bigger threat to Orthodoxy in North America. What he really means is, it’s the biggest threat to the OCA. Let’s be clear about this: Whatever threat exists to the now shortened-future of the OCA exists becuase of the incompentence of the bishops and Metropolitan Council of the last five-or-so years. The EA is simply observing the chaos and concluding, rightly, that the OCA is a radpid imploding, irrelevant vestige of an implausible (though at times, laudible) vision long since dead. Don’t blame the EA, blame these so-called ‘leaders’ (Synod and Metropolitan Council) who have led the OCA to this precipice, but then blame everyone except themselves.
Ask yourself this: Would anything change in the parishes if the OCA in its current form simply vanished, but the parishes remained under a different jurisdiction? Answer: No. In fact, they would be freed from the shackles of this pathetic organization.
It seems to me that the OCA, especially the synod, is clearly confused. Are they the autocephalous Orthodox Church in America, or are they a part of the Episcopate Assembly? They don’t even know what they are. They sure don’t act like they do.
Fool! The EA is + Bart. No foreign bishop will rule over the OCA nor real Americans.
Christ is no American. In fact, He is a Jew. Do you reject HIs rule too?
phil r. upp says:
September 12, 2012 at 5:43 pm
Now I know that he is in danger of “hell fire”!
“Whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matt. 5:22.”
Such hubris is unbecoming of an Orthodox Christian, even less if you are a clergyman.
Michael C.,
Metropolitan Jonah is a monk, and his way of life is an obedience to God. He resigned, because he thought it was a unanimous request from all bishops. St. Sergius of Radonezh also left his monastery, when his brother Stephan started a fight for primacy. It’s not a monastic vertue to fight over power.
For all of us it’s the time for action: we need to write our letters, to protest and picket. We have no right for apathy, although I feel a trace of apathy and depression in your letter. If God grants us victory, Metropolitan Jonah will know what to do with it. He has a good reason to be a Metropolitan: to continue his Apostolic mission in America, which is his true vocation.
FILE THIS ONE UNDER JUST PLAIN PETTY
His Beatitude, Metropolitan Herman asked Ab. Tikhon of Eastern PA if he could serve at the tiny rural parish of St. John the Baptist Church. Dundaff, Pennsylvania. His Beatitude received his reply yesterday. “NO.”
What is wrong with these OCA bishops? Not an ounce of charity in them. But at least they are one thing, consistent in their hard-heartiness.
Metropolitan Jonah – banned from serving in ANY OCA parish except St. Mark’s in Bethesda.
Metropolitan Herman – banned from serving in ANY OCA parish except Holy Resurrection Cathedral in WB.
Metropolitan Theodosius – banned from serving in ANY OCA parish except St. John’s in Canonsburg, PA.
Bishop Nikolai – banned from serving in ANY OCA parish in the Diocese of the West and in the OCA.
Is this the example we are suppose to follow in Christ’s Church?
Is this the example of love and forgiveness we are called to follow?
Yet we are expected to gather and elect one of these men as the next First Hierarch of the OCA?
Don’t be surprised if they ban Metropolitan Jonah from attending the Parma Council.
Lord, have mercy.
I’m sorry but I have to support Abp. +Tikhon here. +Herman is lucky he wasn’t deposed, and should be thankful that they let him serve anywhere. Where was +Herman’s charity when he mortgaged the land of St. Tikhon’s monastery and seminary and left them in financial ruin?
TN,
Point taken but using that same admonition, how do we explain that Ab. Tikhon allowed over $800K in restricted funds to be used for other purposes at STOTS? Should Ab. Tikhon now be deposed? That is one of the main reasons why STOTS board wanted Bp. Michael to be the temporary rector so that he would whip up the masses to backfill those misdirected funds. Its kinda a dilema isn’t it. But I accept your rebuttal but it still seems petty to me. I mean, Dundaff with so few people? What’s the harm?
Where is the gratefulness of St. Tikhon’s in recognizing the great work of Metropolitan Jonah in his efforts to get St. Tikhon’s out of debt, get St. Tikhon’s properly accredited? Now, where even the FOCA I belong ot had reservations about donating to the graduate housing, a better and less expensive solution to the housing has been found and the whole of the FOCA behind it.
Where are the voices of St. Tikhon’s on the Metropolitan’s behalf?
Thank you LOH. And what of the other monk that was brought over-the “good” monk called back for military duty?? +Jonah has done many a wonderful thing. Why is he never mentioned?
Yet, they still let him retain his title “Beatitude!” So backward, messed up and downright demonic.
Clearly, ‘Nikos’s’ heart is in the rght place, but our OCA is still in ‘damage control’ mode.
Since he was released from his responsibilities as our first hierarch, Met. Herman has been directed to serve only at our church in Uniondale PA, the one and only parish he served as pastor.
I’ve also heard that he needs a wheelchair — not a ‘best case scenario’ for a pastor.
Dundaff is being closed. Too few people, too few priests. And Dundaff ought to donate their ikons to a church three times its size. They’re so large as to make you dizzy in that small room!
There are good people there — I know them. It’s sad all around that this parish is closing, but it’s realistic.
Truth be told, Pennsylvania has lots of parishes with only a couple of dozen faithful. For efficiency’s sake, these places need to be combined and redundant parishes closed, even if it means that people have to drive ten miles instead of two.
Please, let’s not waste our precious resources, but concentrate them for all the good work we must do.
Metropolitan Herman (Father Joseph Swiako at the time) served as priest of Saint John the Baptist Church in Dundaff, beginning in September, 1964 until his elevation and consecration to the episcopacy. Care for the spiritual needs of St. John The Baptist Church was then assigned to the clergy of St. Tikhon’s Monastery, and services were conducted by Hieromonk Gamaliel, Hieromonk Sebastian, Fr. Michael Lepa, Fr. Thomas Jones, and Fr. Mark Shinn. Then Very Reverend Father Dionysius Swencki served as pastor for the last 25 years, until just this year. The church in Dundaff was always very small (both in size of the structure and number of parishioners) from the date of its founding in 1937. I have relatives who attend St. John’s in Dundaff. It is a very active church for its small size. I am sad to hear that it will be closed.
Actually,Metropolitan Herman served both Dundaff and Uniondale from the time he was ordained as Fr.Joseph Swaiko in 1964 right up until he became Bishop Herman in 1973.I was in my first year at St.Tikhons when his episcopal consecration took place
I’ve also heard that he needs a wheelchair
I am dreadfully sorry to hear this. I must remember him in prayer.
OCA has many mission parishes that would love to have those icons
http://doepa.org/news_080602_1.html
The other parish has a photo slideshow of Metropolitan Theodosius’s 50 years in the priesthood celebration : MET. THEODOSIUS CELEBRATES 50 YEARS OF PRIESTHOOD
Metropolitan THEODOSIUS celebrates fifty years of priesthood – 10/23/11
(32 images)
view slideshow >
accessible from http://www.frunner.org/photos.html
Metropolitan Panteleimon (Alexandria Patriarchate, on loan to Greek Archdiocese) serves with incredible disabilities and manages to have a fuller service schedule, in several languages, than most cathedrals:
http://www.sttheodores.org/
see particularly http://www.sttheodores.org/documents/Miracle_English.pdf
And all the while, we could have been refilling these parishes, and then some. That’s the real tragedy of all thats been going on.
Nikos! You’re quite right, but Bishop Nikolai (Soraich) is forbidden to PRAY in St. Paul Orthdoox Church in Las Vegas, his own parish and within walking distance of his residence. Jews, Muslims, Scientologists, Mormons, etc., may pray there, but not Bishop Nikolai. It is in wriring, signed by Archbishop Benjamin. It seems Monsignor Dresko’s pastorate must be extremely fragile.
What an abomination! May the Lord have mercy on the perpetrators of this foul act.
I have a few questions for Bishop Tikhon or for anyone who might be able to answer. Is it known without doubt by those in the know that the letter Bishop Nikolai wrote to Archbishop Benjamin, which was later put up on the internet, is true? And if a computer guy found the evidence on the hard drive of the computer, is the evidence still in existence or was it destroyed? If destroyed, why? If not destroyed, why didn’t Bishop Nikolai bring it forward to the proper people who could take action? Why didn’t Bishop Nikolai present that evidence? If he did present the evidence, who stopped him? Why didn’t something result from that? It’s APPALLING. If it’s true, then why is Archbishop Benjamin still in office? And, finally, was what he was looking at illegal? Sorry to ask but it’s important, and I didn’t do it. How can anybody keep going in such a hornet’s nest of lies?
jane rachel’s questions can’t be answered by me except to say that it’s my understanding that Bishop Nikolai’s letter was dismissed by the Holy Synod per the recommendation of ARchbishop Benjamin and others, as a letter written ‘in anger”, which THEREFORE did not merit consideration. NO ONE asked for proof. NO ONE asked for the disk. NO ONE. As for “bringing it forth to the proper people,” please, let us know who they are? The letter was forwarded to Pokrov and they allowed the belief that the letter was not authentic, and said something atrociously slimey, like…”Well, the signature LOOKS like Bishop Nikolai’s, but….”
In other words, only someone closer to Damage Control Headquarters might be able to answer your questions if they thought it was worth their while.
Where the skins of Bishop Nikolai, Protopresbyter Rodion and Mrs. Kondratick, Fr. Joseph Fester and Metropolitan Jonah are concerned, they the last priority of all. You know what they say, “The Church is at stake.” Little children keep yourself from idols….Every monstrous deed in the history of the Church was done because, “The Church is at stake.”
Dear Vladika,
Perhaps no one took the letter that appeared online because of where it appeared, as a presumed image file, on the website of a transvestite communist MP cheerleader in an active relationship with her former and present boyfriend with whom she may or may not be in an active semblance of a heterosexual relationship with or without the sanction of both the church and civil authorities. It seems so much playing at politics by a questionable individual rather than something that can be given credence.
That said, it seems that Monk James below has actually seen these files and that the letter supposedly by Bishop Nikolaj might be given credence. It is thus Monk James that should alert authorities along with Bishop Nikolaj. Further back on the hearsay line than Monk James is Metropolitan Jonah who seems to have followed up to a point on investigating and reporting the material in correspondence with Monk James and assigned an individual to follow up on this, Father Gregory Jensen who continued the dialogue and investigating the matter with Monk James. Neither seems to have contacted the police.
Monk James, who
has no rationale for suggesting that Metropolitan Jonah is weak for persons he delegated to follow up on an issue like this not performing their job. Monk James suggests [emphasis mine]
The only person with evidence seems to be Monk James. Monk James should go to the police. There seems to be no evidence to suggest anything weak or shameful on the Metropolitan’s part.
Jane Rachel says (September 12, 2012 at 8:06 am):
‘I have a few questions for Bishop Tikhon or for anyone who might be able to answer. Is it known without doubt by those in the know that the letter Bishop Nikolai wrote to Archbishop Benjamin, which was later put up on the internet, is true? And if a computer guy found the evidence on the hard drive of the computer, is the evidence still in existence or was it destroyed? If destroyed, why? If not destroyed, why didn’t Bishop Nikolai bring it forward to the proper people who could take action? Why didn’t Bishop Nikolai present that evidence? If he did present the evidence, who stopped him? Why didn’t something result from that? It’s APPALLING. If it’s true, then why is Archbishop Benjamin still in office? And, finally, was what he was looking at illegal? Sorry to ask but it’s important, and I didn’t do it. How can anybody keep going in such a hornet’s nest ‘
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can say for a fact that Bishop Nikolai’s letter to (then) Bp Benjamin is real and true.
I can also say for a fact that BpN does indeed have not only the hard drive from (then) BpB’s computer, but also a printout of its contents, unless he has entrusted that material to someone else.
I suspect that BpN did not hand over this evidence to civil authorities on the advice of legal counsel, since he and several others of us might be charged in law for failing to report the homosexual pedophilia/internet porn we had learned about. Perhaps he/we should do that now.
At the same time, I expect that all of us who knew anything about this might be held accountable in civil law for not respecting our obligations as mandated reporters, since — as far as I know — this material hasn’t ever yet been given to the police.
A couple of years ago, Met. Jonah and I were in correspondence about this problem. He then — appropriately — appointed a priest, Fr Gregory Jensen — to investigate the matter.
FrGJ and I were in contact a few times, but then — suddenly — he was pulled off the case and exposed to a great deal of criticism regarding his qualifications. frGJ is a good man, and I don’t know enough about his background to have opinions about his qualifications.
As far as I know, this investigation was stopped in its tracks and nothing has been done since FrGJ was yanked.
While I have no hard evidence, my instincts tell me that AbpB’s cronies in the Holy Synod threatened MetJ with godknowswhat to make him back off, which he — weakly and shamefully — did.
MetJ is a good man, and might well be the best hope our OCA has for a primate at the moment, but he caves in too easily. We can be humble only for ourselves, not for our responsibilities in The Church.
How to go on?
Let’s not ‘trust in princes (of the Church)’ but only in our Lord Jesus Christ, Who would save us all, His people, His inheritance, His Church, His own Body and Bride.
Irony of ironies, it was Bp Matthias who yanked Fr Gregory Jensen off the case, essentially calling him a criminal. He did this in a letter released to his priests. That was over a year ago. He did this at the behest of the MC/Syosset Apparat.
I guess there are investigations and then there are “investigations.”
If you can get a copy of this letter, why not release it? Sounds like official OCA correspondence.
Well, I did it too. It was an Antiochian personage, not clergy, but at the tippy top of the ranking with the most well known Antiochian clergy. I know for a fact about what he was looking at on his computer, and when I told his clergy (and, also, my OCA priest), they did nothing. When I asked them later they denied it, saying he had denied it and therefore, it was OVER. It was not over with me, but I backed down, for personal, self-protective reasons. I was shut down, silenced and that was that. Shame on me.
I asked George to delete this but he didn’t see my email message to him, so it got posted. Took me all night to decide to delete it, and here it is. Well, so be it. Feels odd, letting that truth come out. Not sure it helps anyone, though. I got tired of all the comparisons, and “clean up your own house” business. If one man stands and thanks God he is not like THAT man, then that first man is better off just looking within, at what makes him think he’s better. He’s not better, and we are ALL in the same boat. It’s called humanity.
I understand your reservations, but I’m glad you posted what you did, Jane Rachel. I agree it is good to avoid comparisons; however, there are some behaviors that are unacceptable, not because they are “bad” or “worse,” but because they are criminal. – To Father James, Father Gregory and Bishop Nikolai (if you are present): Fear of litigation is not an acceptable excuse to allow the on-going exploitation of children. If you have to, report it anonymously.
Gail, exactly. Children. I was actually almost completely unable to act other than to do what I did. It’s a long story. But Archbishop Benjamin must be investigated. According to Monk James there is proof, then. Huh. Pokrov, if you are reading this, listen up. As you know, Bishop Nikolai admitted that he did IN FACT write that letter, and you have known he wrote it for more than a year now, because Mark Stokoe himself posted those stolen emails and phone conversations, wherein Bishop Nikolai told Father Joseph Fester that he wrote it. It is really shameful and hypocritical, Pokrov, that you did not push that investigation. Better get busy.
MILLSTONES!!!
Mr. Michalopulos,
I did not see this until just this moment. You have individuals reporting they – and people they have identified and whose whereabouts are known – to be in direct possession of, or to have direct knowledge of child pornography. I put in a call to the legal consultant of my program as to what obligation I am under by this disgusting “revelation” and you may trust that, at least for those I can identify, I have every intention of reporting them.. Possession of child pornography is a crime and a moral outrage. And apparently you have “held” this information, other than to make an empty-headed complaint about “investigations” for more than 24-hours.
Dr Stankovich,
I do not take kindly to threats. I have no direct knowledge, nor have ever seen, nor have any confirmation that such child pornography exists or has existed on the hard drive of the bishop in question. Only that another bishop (Nikolai Soraich) made a credible claim of such and that he brought it to the first bishop’s attention in a letter (as per Scriptural admonition)>
The letter in question has been circulated in the public domain for several years now. My site was not the first to report the existence of Bp Nikolai’s letter. In other words, I never initiated or asserted the claim that said child pornography exists. You can be asured that had I known for sure or that I was able to find, I would most definately have alerted the authorities as to its existence.
If you are truly as concerned as you say you are about such a reprehensible state of affairs, I suggets you direct the authorities to the chancery office of the Diocese of the West. The address can be obtained at http://www.oca.org. They may also contact Bp Matthias Moriak of Chicago and the Metropolitan Council since they squelched the initial investigation in March of 2011 when they removed and publicly humiliated the man tasked by the Metropolitan with looking into these allegations in the first place.
In Christ,
Geo Michalopulos
Please, m. Stankovich et al, where in Bishop Nikolai’s letter did he make mention of CHILD pornography?
The accusation by Bp. Nikolai, who is in possession of the hard drive in question does NOT contain child pornography. It contains hundreds of hours of homosexual pornography and other porn but not child pornography. If it did, he would have handed it over to authorities long ago.
The point is that Bp. Benjamin clearly presents an addictive personality and not surprisingly projected his own demons onto Metropolitan Jonah. Addictions to booze, food and porn. Plus he is just a mean and angry person with a vindictive streak that keeps his diocesan clergy in line. Hey, isn’t that what everyone said about +Nikolai?
Nikos, Vladyka Tikhon, et al.
Is it possible that I cannot read & comprehend the English language with sufficient precision to comprehend the monk-snitch James comment:
I would suspect that there is not legal counsel on this earth that would suggest maintaining possession of homosexual pedophilia or abetting persons known to possess homosexual pedophilia in any state or jurisdiction in this country. It is a crime.
This would mean, Dr. Nikos, that any other issue is of absolutely no significance other than the possession of homosexual pedophilia which, if the monk-snitch is to be believed, he, Bp. Nikolai, Fr. Jensen, Bp. Matthias, AND (drum roll and rim shot) the former Metropolitan Jonah – the Big Fish himself – who the monk-snitch casually mentions being “in correspondence about this problem,” are all in this together. If you believe the monk-snitch…
In Nikolai’s arrogance, he couldn’t bear a lack of response to his sarcastic letter, so he posted it as far and wide as the internet would allow – for no other reason than to humiliate and scorn. So, “digging a hole [to trap others], he falls in [himself].” (Prov. 26:27). And hey, Nikos, what will everyone say about +Nikolai? “You have the right to remain silent.”
The letter has been readable online in the tiny Orthodox online pond for several years. It’s been known for several months that Bishop Nikolai wrote it. That makes everyone who has read the letter responsible in part for not reporting it and/or pushing for an investigation. Doesn’t it?
Where in his letter did Bishop Nikolai mention CHILD pornography?
Who started this concept of Bishop Nikolai having discovered child pornography on the hard drive of the diocesan computer from during the time Archbishop Benjamin was in charge of that computer? Was it to attempt to focus on a totally fictional, imagined, dereliction of moral and legal duty on Bishop Nikolai’s part? If so, why? All this talk of ostensible motives for Bishop Nikolai doing something that he DID NOT do is extremely sleazy, and it’s a diversion from addressing the REAL immoral conduct of others, who are NOT Bishop Nikolai. it seems to me to be pitifully desperate.
But be not deceived, God is not mocked.
Let’s keep focussed, OK?
Stanky,
The Monk James (cute and disrespectful to call him a snitch, that says more about you) but apparently you act more like Mitt and just can’t wait to jump on something and make a name for yourself. The Monk James is mistaken, its that simple and he should apologize.
However, you, continue to sink like the proverbial stone with your outsider comments. You who are not a member of the OCA, or if you are you decline repeated questions if you are, have become tedious. You who question the Monk James as quickly as anyone, yet on this occasion, you enjoy taking his word as gospel so that you can run with it for your own nefarious ends.
Get a grip Stanky. You are now on this site for comic relief, bless your heart!
Yes, your Grace,
I distinctly remember reading that letter, and I am very sure that it held no reference to Children or Child pornography.
I also remember, that at that time, having been recently accused of not moving fast enough over sexual misconduct that +Met Jonah spoke of initiating an investigation into the activities of +BB.
Following, VERY shortly thereafter, we saw what appeared to be, an intense retaliation by +BB that prevented +Met Jonah from visiting the Monastery of St. John or serving anywhere in the DOW.
That persecution and retaliation has not stopped in the effort to unseat a Met who believes in and teaches Traditional Orthodoxy. Over weight or not.
Who else helped squash this investigation? Who wants the power to determine the future of the OCA? Any connections?
But truth is truth…… “God will not be mocked.”
M. Stankovich. No one has ever *****possessed***** homosexual pedophilia.
Nikos,
If you somehow imagine I am to be “rebuffed” by your pretentious melodrama, please let me correct you: your partner has indicated in no uncertain terms behaviour that is criminal, let alone so morally despicable that only serpents would attempt to dismiss it. Does this even vaguely strike you as a chorus from Britnay Spear’s Whoops, I Did It Again:
Are you capable of distinguishing a “simple mistake” from a “definitive statement?”
And now you will turn “self-righteous” with me? You are accusing me of “making a name for myself” and running with intent for my “own nefarious ends?” You step out from behind that mask, you rock-throwing coward, and let everyone see you for the punk you are. And the fact is, I already know who you are. But I love the law! And you’re lucky I love the law. Can you imagine, there are places on the internet where if I were to post your address & phone, you’d get a pizza delivered every 30 minutes for a week! I believe they call it “Comic Relief.” But no worries, pal. I love the law, bless my heart.
And don’t you ever refer to me again as “Stanky.”
“Let’s not ‘trust in princes (of the Church)’ but only in our Lord Jesus Christ, Who would save us all, His people, His inheritance, His Church, His own Body and Bride.”
Amen to that, Monk James.
With that in mind, how about another concerted and disciplined and more sustained effort of prayer? How many days before Parma? Would someone else like to propose a Canon or Akathist?
Karen, I think another Akathist night is exactly what we need.
Surely more than one night? If no one else has a suggestion, I recommend we go to our Foundation and Summit using the Akathist to Jesus. I challenge everyone to pray that once a day until Parma (or as often as they are able) up until that event.
“I suspect that BpN did not hand over this evidence to civil authorities on the advice of legal counsel, since he and several others of us might be charged in law for failing to report the homosexual pedophilia/internet porn we had learned about. Perhaps he/we should do that now.”
Yes, please, I beg you. Now is the time. Make this nightmare end. Forget about playing the OCA game of sitting on a treasure trove of dirt to gain power/protection. Remember the Roman Catholic bishops and senior priests who actively concealed EXACTLY the same kind of criminal clergy misbehavior? Don’t let it blow up. Blow it up.
JamesP,
Bp. Nikolai offered to hand it over to the OCA synod but they did not bother to take him up on the offer. But please note that when Met. Jonah began to look into the antics of +Benjamin, that investigation was shut down by +Benjamin, +Nathaniel, et. al.
So, again, we are faced with another example of episcopal leadership and how the OCA has been led by the nose by Stokoe, Garklavs, Tosi and now Jillions. They brand their foes as crazy while they look the other way when one of their own does things much worse.
And, to be clear, every time His Grace +Tikhon, retired of the West writes he does so as another branded as crazy. Nice church the OCA. Stalin would be proud.
Nikos,
What in heaven’s name are you talking about? I am reading directly from THIS post above you. This has nothing to do with Archbps. Benjamin & Nathaniel, et al. It’s a direct quote from a “direct participant,” the monk-snitch, who goes on to detail all participants and abettors of the possession of child pornography.
When I read his statement to the attorney who defends my program against subpoenas and legal actions this morning, he said (actually, I can’t say verbatim what he said!), “Is he crazy? I’m not laughing because this is amusing, but what was this guy thinking?” Soraich worked for the DA in Las Vegas, says I. “Are you kidding me?” His best advice: “Good luck explaining this.”
“They brand their foes as crazy while they look the other way when one of their own does things much worse.” Nikos, who’s holding the bag?
“Trust not in princes , nor in the sons of men for in them there is no salvation.”
Unfortunately, when we’ve had 3 metropolitans retire/resign in succession . . . there does seem to be a problem.
Monk James, This is the first time I’ve heard that there was any evidence of pedophiliac or childhood abuse pornography on the hard disk. My recollection of Bishop Nikolai’s letter is that it referred to hours of pornography on the hard drive, without characterizing that pornography at all. I’ve not seen a printout of what’s on the hard drive either.
Could you please be more specific about evidence of child or pedophile pornography?
I don’t believe that Bishop Nikolai has refused to turn any evidence of criminal conduct over to the proper authorities, including evidence of child sexual abuse. If YOU know of such, you should notify the proper authorities immediately. i would.
I’m in shock over what appear to be unsupported accusations by you against Bishop Nikolai.
you’re reporting the sort of thing that Mark Stokoe used to…..Clergy hiding behind lawyers to cover up crime.
No, Dresko is right! Soriach is nuts. I know he’s your “BUDDY,” but he’s nuts. Maybe that’s why you and he could see eye-to-eye!
Have you ever met His Grace Nikolai? On what do you base your assumption on?
George,
Phil has never met +Nikolai. He hasn’t met any of the leaders in the OCA. He is a cyber troll who sits behind his computer screen and gets his rocks off by writing ridiculous posts.
But keep writing Phil because the more you write the more you make the case for the people you ridicule.
People have launched a number of criticisms in Bishop Nikolai’s direction, but lying about child abuse is not one of them. Unless you, Phil R. Upp, can tell us differently, we have no reason to doubt Bishop Nikolai, especially since what he’s saying has been confirmed by another reliable source, i.e. Father James.
phil r. upp wrote “Dresko is right. Soriach (sic) is nuts.”
Please, where has “Dresko” contributed something to Monomakhos? Or WHO has quoted one word by “Dresko”?
phil r. upp’s words don’t appear to be sober. Bishop Nikolai’s family name is Serbian: Soraich. It means something like “From the mountain.”
“Bishop Nikolai’s family name is Serbian: Soraich. It means something like “From the mountain.”
Then perhaps nuts roll down “from the mountain.”
Have you ever met Bp Nikolai?
In Serbian so raj would actually mean so-with, raj= kingdom (as in heavenly kingdom) c’ is just a Serbian male ending
It is a very Orthodox name
There is no raj in Soraich. Bishop Nikolai’s last name is NOT Sorajich, nor Srajich.
And it is not based on “so raja.’ “ic” does indeed indicate son of or masculine issue of. But without the “i” it has nothing to do with male grammatical gender. “ic” is just one of several slavonic patronymic indicators, as in Tschaikovsky’s and Lenin’s second names, while icna (ichna) is the female version. The son of an Ilya (Elijah) is an Ilyich, while the daughter of such is an Ilyichna.
It is not pronounced: “So-rai-ich,” but S(o)-or-a-ich”
I defer in this to Bishop Nikolai’s own explanation of this name of his, perhaps based on a high place in Herzegovina.
i bow to the official explanation. Can’t find Sora on the ordinary road map.
I think phil r. upp is “nuts.”
Just for your amusement, check out the instructions to delegates to the AAC, who are advised in the Delegate’s Handbook to prepare themselves by reviewing the biographies of the previous Metropolitans on the OCA website: oca.org/holy-synod/past-primates. Not a clue that +Theodosius and +Herman retired under dark clouds of scandal, and of course not a word that +Jonah was forced into resignation, nor that all three are living with life sentences of internal exile.
It seems His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah is stuck in an interesting situation that really underscores the myth of the OCA’s so-called autocephaly. If the head of an autocephalous Church feels he needs to appeal a decision of that Church against him, he must appeal to the Ecumenical Patriarch.
What can Metropolitan Jonah do? If he goes to Patriarch Batholomew, he will say “You are not an autocephalous Church, go to your Mother Church Moscow.” If he goes to Moscow they’ll say “You are an autocephalous Church, we can’t interfere, go to Constantinople.” And hence the perpetual “pickle-play”.
It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.
John,
My point is not about +Bartholomew the man and his personal opinions, but about the process. If the Patriarch of Bulgaria, or the Patriarch of Alexandria, for example, have a problem with their synod that they need to appeal, the process is that they would appeal it to Constantinople. But +Jonah has nobody to appeal to due to the fact that Constantinople does not recognize the OCA as an autocephalous Church, but as part of the Russian Church. Then on the other hand, Russia says the OCA is an autocephalous Church so he must appeal to Constantinople. This proves that the OCA is not in a normal state of existence as a Church. Regardless of who the metropolitan is, he is left without the right of appeal to anybody. This is a huge flaw.
I think you read that correctly, and yes, its a very serious flaw that must somehow be fixed.
Disgusted With It,
The fact that the OCA is a canonical Church means that one of her bishops or clergy do have the right of appeal to Constantinople. Whether it recognizes the autocephaly of the OCA is not a barrier to such an appeal. It would be easier to appeal to Constantinople than Moscow because Moscow recognizes the status of the OCA and thus might be reluctant to appearing to interfere in the internal matters of a Sister Church. Thus the right of appeal does exist to the First Among Equals that being Constantinople.
And so what was the response from +Bartholomew when +Jonah appealed? Or is he still waiting for an answer?
I do not believe that +Jonah ever made even an informal appeal to the EP, nor to Moscow. But consider that the OCA bishops have done their best to cut him off by branding him a crazy man. Kishkovsky and the Synod knew what they were doing to poison the Jonah well. They have had a lot of experience.
Well, for what it’s worth, I’m of the opinion he should present his case to Constantinople and let them be the ones to say no. If they say no, I’m sure they will do it in a way to clearly state the lack of “standing” of the OCA. If they do take it on (and you know they would love the opportunity to put the OCA synod in its place), then that might be even better for +Jonah. Either way, I would suspect an appeal to Constantinople would prove quite embarrassing for the OCA synod in the end.
If he doesn’t stand up for justice, then how can we?
I think you are greatly misguided and are turining into an internet troll, if you were not one already. Also, Archbishop Demetrios is not a shill and has stood up to the Ecumenical Patriarch on a number of occassion one being in support of Metropolitan Jonah being included at the EA, but you simply want to perpetuate the myth, bash Greeks and rabble-rouse. So be it John Pappas (if that truly is your name. If so very disappointing).
Peter
Peter A.
You are correct. His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios indeed stood up to make sure Met. Jonah and the bishops of the OCA were included in the ACOB but in response to his gracious action Ap. Nathaniel called Bp Basil of Wicita to make sure that +Jonah was not invited to the Chicago meeting of ACOB this week. It seems that the OCA still is very afraid of +Jonah as he can easily expose their underhanded methods. One can conclude that they know they are a slippery slope because of their actions.
And from these men we are supposed to select the next Metropolitan?
Bishop Nikolai was graciously allowed to celebrate a pannakhida and funeral with Bishop Theodosy in the ROCOR cathedral in San Francisco, September 10/11. He attended, but did not serve, during the liturgy for St. John the Baptist. Received communion at the altar beside Bishop Theodosy.
Outsiders used to call ROCOR mean spirited. Hm!
About a year or two ago,Metropolitan Herman did serve at a local commmunity,supposedly with permission of the local hierarch(not OCA).I wasn’t present for the Liturgy because I had my own church to serve in,but I was present at the Saturday Vespers where I saw Metropolitan Herman for the first time since he had served the funeral of my sister-in-law in 1977.
While the text on Heracleides’s latest cartoon is appropriate, i think that he should have drawn a little rubber ball and some jacks, rather than the rather adult weapons he chose, which are not necessarily toys..
I don’t want tp push it. I wouldn’t want to discourrage a very cunning cartoonist, who is probably the first Orthodox ever to have the charisma of cartoon construction!
Bishop, I’d be interested in your take on my latest creation… (contains a partial quote of a recent statement you penned).
At last! I was beginning to feel neglected. Now I can say that I, too, have been let into Heracleides’s cartoon world.
Meanwhile, it’s good to be disparaged by the same types that disparaged Protopresbyter Rodion S. Kondratick, Bishop Nikolai (Soraich), Archpriest Joseph Fester, et al! Must be doing something right!
Thanks again, Heracleides! I’ll continue to concentrate on defending them, while being mean and belittling to those who hurt them.
Heracleides!!!!
I’m not sure if you got or read my answer to your request, since it was only posted much later, when it would not appear in the topic’s current right-hand summary column This is what i wrote:
“At last! I was beginning to feel neglected. Now I can say that I, too, have been let into Heracleides’s cartoon world.
Meanwhile, it’s good to be disparaged by the same types that disparaged Protopresbyter Rodion S. Kondratick, Bishop Nikolai (Soraich), Archpriest Joseph Fester, et al! Must be doing something right!
Thanks again, Heracleides! I’ll continue to concentrate on defending them.
Indeed I did, and to which I replied (the response apparently being marked for censorship). This is what I wrote:
Actually you were admitted to the ranks with the “Three Monkeys” image a couple of months ago. In any event, I knew you’d enjoy the latest affirmation of your episcopal “ministry.” Definitely a fitting alumnus of the OCA Synod (retired or not). Birds, feathers, etc.
Well, then, double thanks!!!!
I feel my episcopal service was validated or invalidated by my time as Bishop of San Francisco,. Los Angeles, and the West. But i’ve retired, and am happy to enjoy Heracleiedes’s validations or invalidations of my or any other person’s ministry as being marvellously amusing and irrelevant to anything.
Again, double thanks!
I don’t know how people have the gall to be jerky to you, Vladyka. I mean, if I may say so, you have a strong personality, but you are true to yourself, you don’t put up political pretenses, you have definite views about how things should be done and ecclesiastical order maintained, and sometimes you put things in that biting sarcasm for which you are so well known. I appreciate it even if I may some times disagree with you on something (nothing readily comes to mind).
Can OCA people work to somehow allow you to give a Jonah-style keynote address at the next AAC? I’d pay good money to be in that room.
Issac,
You need to understand that retired Bp. Tikhon of the West has been branded a “nut”, “crazy”, you name it by the forces that has turned the ship of the OCA state in its current direction. Character assassination is the preferred way to deal with people who have tried to speak truth to power. +Jonah is just the latest in a long list of “undesirables” who make the power-brokers uncomfortable. It is just the way the OCA does it. If you just accept it, all will be fine and the OCA will be fine.
Bishop Tikhon’s reputation as a prickly prelate stretches to the very beginning of his reign in the Diocese of the West. That some respond to his temperament in kind is unfortunate, but understandable.
CQ is quite right; Ive been JUSTLY perceived as “prickly,” or, better, “a prick”, by some people, almost all of them other bishops and parish priests, from the beginning of my episcopal service. Except for, perhaps..[a few people], I don’t recall being prickly with many, if any, laity at all. I’m very difficult for some in the Altar and deserve a reputation as not only prickly, but perfectionist there to an almost pathological extent. SO WHAT? Also, having sung in choirs since long before my voice changed and even sometimes now, I can be very annoying to some choir directors who see themselves as Royalty of the Kliros. Woe to the priest who makes me stand through an interminable sermon, impromptu! And so on. Some Priests and Protodeacon posting here wouldn’t last a day in my diocese without, in the words of “Oliver,” “reevaluating the situation!”
Oh,and I’ll spot the “usual suspects” (what a great movie that was!) a dozen or two or you thumbs-downs right off the bat. They are not impressive, but are like surreptitious wind-breakers.
The latest OCA News shows how they will insidiously spread their contamination to the rest of the canonical Orthodox Churches.
http://oca.org/news/headline-news/diocese-of-eastern-pa-inaugurates-clergy-continuing-education-program
Whatever happened to preaching repentance at the highest places? The OCA should definitely clean up their own house especially in the OCA Synod before deciding to help other jurisdictions.
When is the insanity going to stop?
I’m beginning to shutter at the vision I have of the present OCA bishops standing around the Holy Table in an Orthodox temple, with the reserved Body and Blood of our Lord and His Holy Gospel on it, and relics of our Saints on or within it, and calling down the Holy Spirit to participate in the charade they intend to “repentantly” perform for “the good” of His Holy Church in North America.
May Our Lord have mercy on their and our souls!
Perhaps for the salvation of everybody’s souls the Laity should prevent them from standing around the Holy Table and making a mockery of the Eucharist.
“Even if bishops are driven from their Churches, be not dismayed. If traitors have arisen from among the very clergy themselves, let not this undermine your confidence in God. We are saved not by names, but by mind and purpose, and genuine love toward our Creator. Bethink you how in the attack against our Lord, high priests and scribes and elders devised the plot, and how few of the people were found really receiving the word.”
“I exhort you, therefore, not to faint in your afflictions, but to be revived by God’s love, and to add daily to your zeal, knowing that in you ought to be preserved that remnant of true religion which the Lord will find when He comes on the earth.” -St. Basil the Great
I try to just make the next good choice.
“You were revealed as the sure foundation of the Church,
Granting all men a lordship which cannot be taken away,
Sealing it with your precepts,
O Venerable and Heavenly Father Basil.”
(Kontakion – Tone 4)
And so, I repeat:
In all this confusion, discord, and strife…. Please, please don’t take your eyes off of Jesus. Don’t be distracted. It is a time to come back to the basics. Come back to simplicity: Love. The Love of God, the beauty of Christ. As you are doing a good and needed job in searching out the truth of this matter, please never lose sight of this. God Bless you all. Oh Lord Jesus, Come!
Jared says:
September 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm
Jared, see my sincere post of September 12, 2012 at 2:56 pm immediately above.
It is because we HAVE “our eyes on Jesus,” that we find these events so disturbing. The time to worry is when you see us giving up. – We may not be able to rid our Church of the pestilence we call “humanity,” but we CAN be accountable and stand up for what we know is right. It is my fervent hope that Christ will take this small offering and multiple it for His glory.
the pestilence we call humanity, hmm, so, ” humanity is pestilence” and you want to rid the Church
of that pestilence which is humanity. In other words, you want to rid the Church of humanity. CHRIST
CAME TO SAVE FALLEN HUMANITY and this fallen humanity is saved IN THE CHURCH which is HIS BODY.
Recall the communion prayer: I BELIEVE, O LORD, AND I CONFESS THAT THOU ART TRULY THE CHRIST
THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD WHO CAMEST INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS, OF WHOM I A M
F I R S T………Each and everyone of us is the FIRST SINNER. We NEVER may regard ourselves as better
then someone else. S I N is pestilence and the Church is the place to cure it. My point is, you can’t say it
the way you did. You could have may be said ” rid the Church of the PESTILENCE OF CORRUPTION”, but NOT
“the pestilence we call humanity”. By that , I am not saying there is corruption because I don’t know
much about the ongoing situation, other then what I read here. ( I have met Metropolitan Jonah and find
him to be VERY NICE and personally see no reason for his retirement after such a short time in office.
If he made mistakes,” big deal”, we all do. As far as i am concerned, he should have stayed on. A word about the” weight issue”. MANY orthodox clergy men are fat. Patriarch Pimen comes to mind. I don’t believe anyone would have dared to tell him that . If they had, they probably would not have lived to tell about it. LOL . Someone’s weight is their PRIVATE PERSONAL ISSUE.
I AM VERY VERY FAT MYSELF and must stand up for MY PEOPLE. LOL.) the preceding in parentheses is in response to some other posts.
I see what you’re saying, but I was using the term “humanity” in the context of our fallen human nature which is a “pestilence” in the sense that it is destructive. – Sorry for the confusion.
Dear Taso,
In the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that I am a perpetually recovering fat person. I was even a fat baby. And, I feel like we can talk about food if we cook for others. In many respects, it’s all about helping one another and love in action. For example, you don’t help one another these days by bringing a platterful of cheese danish for coffee hour to add to the donuts and bagels and english muffins. But you might with a huge mess o’ greens or some pickled mushrooms or artichokes or a mound of buckwheat kasha..
Dear George Michalopulos:
Once again, I would like to remind you of that commitment made some time ago to only post happenings and incidents based on fair and credible facts.
You are quick to defend Metropolitan Jonah whom you seem to know quite well and yet allow Metropolitan Herman’s good name to be defamed by an ambusher who will not reveal his true identity.
I do not know who TN is, but for sure he knows little of what he is talking about and much less about living according to the 9th commandment.
He asks as if with some authority ” Where was +Herman’s charity when he mortgaged the land of St. Tikhon’s monastery and seminary and left them in financial ruin?”
By expressing such an unfounded and bold comment, he is sure to keep company with gossipy friends and false advisors and not with those of us who have seen with our own eyes the spiritual and physical improvements that have taken place here at St. Tikhon’s the past 45 years under the stewardship of His Beatitude, Metropolitan Herman. Never, ever and I repeat ever were we in financial ruin while under the guidance of Metropolitan Herman and there certainly would be none today if he were still our steward. Many top contributors refuse to give to the OCA or her institutions because of what has taken place in the last five years. This is a fact!
I will now ask the question expected from you before allowing TN to post his false and damaging allegation.
TN, please show me in black and white print, with facts and I mean with names, dates and figures the first hand knowledge and information that you have acquired showing that Metropolitan Herman “left St. Tikhon’s in financial ruin?”
Yours in Christ,
Martin
Monk James,
You are becoming an enemy of righteousness and truth! When will you cease from making statements that hurt people, cause others to fall into sin, and are not factually true?
His Beatitude, Metropolitan Herman served both Dundaff and Uniondale and was also at the same time Registrar at St. Tikhon’s Seminary, fund-raiser for St. Tikhon’s Monastery and Personal Secretary to Archbishop Kiprian. I know I came to St. Tikhon’s in 1965.
Regarding your claim that he was only allowed to serve in Uniondale and is now confined to a wheel chair is so far off the mark and one in which you should definitely seek guidance from a true “Spiritual Father” who will be able to motivate you to turn away from your most grievous habitual sin of bearing false witness as evidenced by some of your postings.
Yours in Christ,
Martin
Many years ago when the horrible three years of evil, lies, slander, hatred and civil war dominated the Greek Orthodox Church of America in order to ‘kick out’ the new Archbishop Spyridon, I was distressed.
I had a dream one night. I was in a large monastery with many rooms. I understood the large monastery to be the Greek Orthodox Church. There were many, many frightening demons flying about everywhere. I opened a door to a room off the main hall, and I saw OCA clerics sitting around a conference table, and understood this smaller room to be the OCA…there were many demons flying about in that room too.
There is more to the dream which was profound and which is equally prophetic, but I will keep that part to myself.
The reason I am writing this is because these terrible controversies are nothing less than *demonic*..they are not blessed; they are not of God, and neither is speculation, blogging, gossip writing, and forum posting about such matters. We should not ‘play’ church, but live and breathe church–acquiring the peace and grace of the Holy Spirit, confessing, praying and partaking in the mysteries. We are told by all the saints to mind our tongues so as not to sin–Perhaps we should acknowledge that today’s tongues are also extended to the fingertips on keyboards.
The saints don’t solve problems by endless idle talk. The saints pray and fast to solve problems, That is our Orthodox tradition and belief.
May God’s peace be with us, and may we learn to love and respect one another, as our Master has told us to.
Dear Brothers and Sisters
Those who continue their lives with the preciseness of confession will awaken Abnegation which will apply through disobedience, Disobedience and submission have to kill from within us, our Opinion and Will, which are the cause of disaster,so they have to be destroyed. The Son of God proved this, He became obedient. When we hold on through Abnegation thought. If he negotiates,this is called combination, swiftly the Devil takes hold of it.If he does he has the power to create negligence. Once he catches the combination, he negates the Divine Fear(he means Respect, not the Fear of the punisher god). Divine Fear, is the source of Zeal and Will, of Reverence and Willingness. When these are withdrawn, which are aids of Grace, we cant resist then. However, if we be careful and we don’t make a combination with Irrationality of thought or we correct.
We have to preserve the Mind, we have to keep the Mind in a state of logic, so that you can awake the tripartition of Soul. The Logical, the Wanted, the Desired and these, will engage the powers of Soul, the wisdom, bravery and justice, the means which we have by nature and we can use them to resist to Irrationality and Devil, to banish him,but all these the Mind can do them,if it is careful and doesn’t accept the guilty insult. If he doesn’t negotiate with the guilty.
Didaches from Athos
+ + +
Whatever happens at OCA it will be the WILL of our Lord Jesus Christ, let the past and future. There are people who do not have their health, there are people dying every second that passes, let them pray for all our brothers and sisters around the world(they NEED our prays). We must awaken from the slumber and see the truth and the path that is our Lord Jesus Christ.
+ ΙΣΧΡΝΚ + ΙΧΘΥΣ +
Nikolaos
Greece