Interesting there is a winepress found in Isreal 6th century and it had a lantern shaped like a church. Little things like that make us thing. Anyway, the wine was probably going to Africa and Europe and even barbaric Europe.
How long will this go on? Metropolitan JONAH has been requested by ROCOR –now do they have to request him again? George, do you know what (if anything) is being done currently? I’m glad someone is paying +Jonah’s rent and he has the Foundation assisting him, but to me the main injustice is the false, slanderous letter written by Bishop MATTHIAS, which went out to the world press, calling +Jonah a co-conspirator in rape, and associating him with the pedophilia of Jerry Sandusky. This MUST be repented of publicly, because the lies were made public and the media all over the world picked up on it. The OCA holy Synod and our Syosset administration will have NO credibility until this gross injustice is addressed.
It has recently been reaffirmed to me that the reason the OCA doesn’t hear more outcry from other jurisdictions about this shame is because the die of their opinion of the OCA has already been cast, and the OCA has been written off as shameful and irrelevant to them.
I keep hearing how other jurisdictions want nothing to do with the OCA: and that is one of the reasons they are slow to act in regards to +Jonah. Having “OCA” on one’s pedigree these days does not engender trust to those not on this dizzying merry-go-round.
And the barking Hounds of Syosset makes the prospect of dealing with the OCA’s release of +Jonah even less attractive. The only way to make sense of their actions is to arrive at the conclusion that they don’t want +Jonah to go anywhere else, and/ or to serve in any significant way. They want to keep him where they can punish him. This is why they issued “information” about their attempts to respect Pat. Kirill’s request to make him comfortable; but they misrepresented much of their offer and +Jonah’s replies: to provide a veneer of “good faith” towards His Beatitude. This, I don’t believe, does anything to change anyone’s opinion of the truth, but mostly plants enough seeds of doubt such that clergy and laity don’t riot.
If you ask a Greek, Antiochian, and ROCOR clergyman or informed layperson about the situation, you’re almost certain to find that they have no trust in the OCA and the “information” they disperse. In my experience this is true regardless of whether or not they know or like +Jonah.
I am more convinced than ever that, regardless of what happens with +Jonah, the OCA dealt itself a serious and critical blows when it stared swinging at its primate. I doubt it will ever recover.
” The only way to make sense of their [the Synod’s] actions is to arrive at the conclusion that they don’t want +Jonah to go anywhere else, and/ or to serve in any significant way. They want to keep him where they can punish him. This is why they issued “information” about their attempts to respect Pat. Kirill’s request to make him comfortable; but they misrepresented much of their offer and +Jonah’s replies: to provide a veneer of “good faith” towards His Beatitude. This, I don’t believe, does anything to change anyone’s opinion of the truth, but mostly plants enough seeds of doubt such that clergy and laity don’t riot.”
This seems to be the most accurate insight I’ve read yet. I think think the Synod is paying close attention to the legal team and Priest Jillions on how best to deal with Met. Jonah just in case something comes of the issue mentioned in the release letter from back when. They are all about “veneer” – to appear kind, loving, wanting to ‘take care of their brother’ when in truth they hope that the ‘faithful’ will be like ‘dumb’ sheep. If enough time goes by then maybe the faithful will forget.
Jesse says: “I am more convinced than ever that, regardless of what happens with +Jonah, the OCA dealt itself a serious and critical blows when it stared swinging at its primate. I doubt it will ever recover.”
Well put. Unfortunately, this is the very sad reality. I’ve been a believer in the OCA “forever”, but this really turned me off, not with respect to the OCA’s mission but rather to its credibility & integrity. The synod put out their official letter on +Jonah last July, which turned out to filled with inaccuracies as well as some patently false information that essentially slandered +Jonah…then they never issued a follow-up statement to clarify or retract that letter. Unbelievable!
I have deep respect for now Metropolitan Tikhon, and I have ever since he was a hieromonk at the monastery. He’s a man of profound humility & authentic prayerfulness. However, as we’ve seen thus far the personality of the primate is not enough to set right what is awry in the synod so I don’t see much of a reason for optimism.
The see of SF is held by a man who’s been arrested & convicted of DUI, Shy-town by a man acknowledged by his brothers on the synod to have sexually harassed a young woman in his diocese, the Bulgarian see’s bishop tried to sell the argument to the faithful of Chicago & the Midwest that they ought to take +Matthais back because he was not really guilty of “sexual misconduct” but only of “the lowest end of sexual harassment.” Talk about hair-splitting, legalistic, hypocrisy? None of this passes the straight-face test. When I was young & single I could have rationalized this nonsense, but now that I’m married & bringing up a family I can’t justify the unjustifiable to my wife & children, extended family & friends without damaging my own credibility & integrity.
It’s tragic because Istanbul is salivating over the “new world” & you know they don’t give much emphasis to the indigenous culture being integrated into the local church…just more of the imperial episcopate & ethnocentrism despite their claims to the contrary. Who will credibly force a balance now?
Seraphim, you hit the nail right on the head. As to why the other jurisdictions have not said anything, there’s an old Napoleonic maxim that goes something like this: “when your enemy is trying to commit suicide, get out of the way.”
The OCA, which was once a beacon, an example even, was also an irritant at times. This was during the best of times. Now it is nothing more than a laughingstock; at best it’s a bad example.
Agreed, but the most disturbing aspect of this progressively worsening debacle is that the OCA’s synod appears completely oblivious to the fact that virtually every recent decision it makes further undermines its credibility & integrity in the hearts & minds of both those within as well as those without.
This is due to it a departure from the “traditional” & “canonical” models of ecclesiastical governance which have been replaced with contemporary secular models of corporate management. The recent “continuing education” requirement for clergy (i.e., parish priests) is the quintessential example of this foolishness. This is not just a worthless requirement – its altogether asinine. Orthodox pastors in the US already have plenty of education, and academic feathers in their caps don’t do anything to bolster the priest’s pastoral skills, which is really what the parish priest needs. You can’t intellectualize your parishioners in place of ministering to their souls. I’m a family doc, so I have all types of “continuing medical education” (CME) requirements that I must meet for national, state and local hospital standards, but in my experience 99% of the time they just turn out to be more bureaucratic hoops to jump through with little practical value because I (and most younger physicians) keep myself up to date on medical/scientific developments real-time simply because I have to in order to provide good care. I liken all these corporate changes to a Dilbert-meets-medicine & Dilbert-meets-ministry nightmare. It replaces the personal with the impersonal, the local with the central, the practical with the impractical. Progress, right?
What is one to do? I watch all this with a heavy heart while I dumfoundedly scratch my head.
Your comment makes no sense to me. The average adult male watches more than 20 hours of television in a week, let alone pursuing anything like continuing education.
I suspect you know little of theological education in the US, but there is nothing comparable to student rotations through services, mentoring, residency, fellowship, supervision, standardized examination of “basic competency,” or even assessment of common sense. I do not mean to make light of the fact that the Service of the Ordination of a Priest declares that the “Divine Grace always completes that which is wanting through the laying-on of hands,” but it is naive to imagine this simply “happens.” I am thoroughly trained in the provision of psychotherapy & structural family therapy, and when a priest tells me they are “counseling a couple” with “marriage problems,” equiped with only the education we received at seminary, I cringe.
Secondly, any decent, competent physician establishes for themselves peers whom they trust for referral; individuals whom they are confident will provide the best & most ethical care available. For the life of me, I cannot understand priests who establish themselves in communities, who are frequently the first person contacted when there is an “issue” or crisis in an individual or family, but have not taken the time to identify community services prior to necessity. And by identify, I mean “interviewing” agencies or individuals, establishing that they are credible, accredited, and ethical providers who are open & willing to speak with an Orthodox priest. In increasingly more states, priests are mandated reporters of suspected child & spousal abuse; ignorance of responsibility and signs of abuse are no excuse under the law, and certainly not morally. Where are AA, NA, Al-Anon meetings? Every priest should have an updated list of meetings and be willing to transport, suggesting they should have already been to meetings to orient themselves as to what to expect.
So, Seraphim, I ask you: as you scratch your head, might you consider the yearly “requirement” of continuing education could easily be fulfilled by making the rounds of community resources (perhaps even volunteering a half day at a clinic or agency), sitting for an afternoon in the gallery of Family Court learning the process(-es) (e.g. how to get an order of protection without a lawyer), or attending one representative 12-step fellowship meeting of each of AA, NA, Al-Anon and staying around after for coffee & informal discussion? Granted, this is not fostering the priestly function, but rather the shepherd. Nothing I have suggested comes at a cost beyond time. It is, in fact, the Grace Divine which transforms the “impersonal” into the “personal.” I am amazed to this day when an individual or family describes the impact of a “collateral” professional who finally says, “I know what to do, and I’ll help you.” Amazing. And thanks to God there are such priests. But there should be many more.
As an aside, one of the greatest gifts I have received is an account to reach the medical library from home. Granted I am involved in research, but the ability to access any full-text journal I wish is extraordinary. Theology CE’s, CME’s, GR, teleconferences, you name it, are either “bureaucratic hoops,” or another articulation of “O Lord, how manifold are your works! in wisdom have You made them all!” (Ps. 103:24) My thought: not enough time left to “capture” everything I would wish. But I try.
I often disagree with your posts. Not this time. You have hit it squarely on the head. I have done more than cringe. I have wept at the damage wrought by well meaning but ill equipped priest-as-councillor.
My hope is that the continuing education credits ARE used exactly as you described. Unfortunately, the program has been set up to be “self funding.” I fear that means that Syosset will determine what courses are required and will probably set up and deliver them, for a fee, of course. I pray the offerings and requirements move in the direction you describe above.
Your suggestions cost nothing, yet are priceless in giving a young priest the grounding required not only to be a “first responder” for crises referred to him, but also gives him a place to refer situations that are clearly beyond his competence, in addition to prayer (always vital, to be sure.)
And for those priests who may simply lurk (read without ever commenting) here, I would second Mr. Stankovich’s recommendations, regardless of the education requirement of the OCA or any other jurisdiction. The price is your attention and time. The payoff is blessings yet unknown for those in your flock that suffer.
Sue, you stated: Unfortunately, the program [i.e., the new continuing theological education requirements for priests in the OCA] has been set up to be “self funding.” I fear that means that Syosset will determine what courses are required and will probably set up and deliver them, for a fee, of course.
Agreed, and this is precisely my objection. I think that M. Stankovich’s recommendation that priests receive education about resources that are available in the local community & how to connect people to them when appropriate is a fine idea (one that ought to be incorporated into basic seminary instruction), but that is NOT what this is about. M. Stankovich, who I often agree with, has presented a very romanticized rendition of what this will actually turn out to be, and that is because he has confused the theoretical with the actual (no offense intended).
In reality, this requirement, which I wager is going to be interpreted as broad in its definition, will just turn out to be one more thing that the already over-worked & under-appreciated/under-paid parish priest has to cram into his already over-packed schedule, likely at a financial cost as well, taking time away from his personal/prayer life, family life & parishioners in order to meet a one-size-fits-all requirement from “Syosset”. Genius!
One could argue that this type of requirement makes sense for physicians because science & the practice of evidence based medicine is constantly evolving; however, “the faith…was once for all delivered to the saints” – it does not change.
Mark my words, all this will be self-evident with the passage of time. Just ask your parish priest about it as the next few years roll by.
You said it. It’s just another feather in the cap of American Ortho-Corporatism, to make the OCA look shiny and “with it.” Instead, it will turn into a boondoggle which will drive even more men out of the priesthood. And then it will just wither away do to disinterest.
My father was a physician and I am in a profession that requires continuing ed. The CE programs are a joke. They do not address the real problems with real solutions as the information they do provide is well behind the curve. Regulations and products and procedures change far too often and too quickly for the CE providers to keep up.
When my father was doing them, he went for a nice lunch at one of the hospitals and had some time with other doctors. Used to be that way in my line of work too, now its all on the internet with canned progams that are certified for X number of hours that can be completed in 15 to 20 minutes.
The only way to keep current is to read professional literature and deal with real problems. In the priest’s case, the practical and local approach which M.S. suggests is a good idea. In addition, the priest needs to read the fathers, the Bible and listen to his parishoners.
An internet based course on Patristics with attention to particular subjects such as Christian anthropology, suffering, etc. might work. Well prepared and open to lay folks as well, it could acutally be a money maker.
I think we maybe are typing past each other. I fundamentally agree that the rollout of this requirement leaves something to be desired. I can see it being abused or being another meaningless “requirement” to further burden our parish priests.
Nonetheless, my point, is that the kinds of education opportunities described by Mr Stankovich are needed in our parishes. It is not taught in the seminaries, and is sorely needed. His point I think, and mine, is that this sort of experience does not require a fee. A parish priest is asked to be jack of all trades, and it would be a help, I would think, to know what the available resources are, and have enough personal experience of them that one could refer a parishioner with some confidence.
So I think we may be in “violent agreement.” But whatever Syosset does, or doesn’t do, this kind of experience is needed, and I would invite priests to consider doing just as Mr. Stankovich recommends, continuing education programs notwithstanding. Additionally, I would invite Syosset to include such experiences in the “required hours.”
This program and rollout might not have been optimum, but the need is there. Perhaps tweaking of this type can bring value to both the priests and the faithful they serve.
Sue, speaking for myself as somebody who must take fifteen hours of CE every year to maintain my license, I can honestly tell you that there are better ways to exact these requirements from the professional in question. Sure, I could spend the money to go on a ski retreat or sea cruise, or I could spend six hours of my (very little) time off to go to a lecture at the local medical school or conference center. I can also now do CE online. Some I have to pay for, some is free (believe it or not). I choose to do it on-line and if possible during working hours in the evening or on weekends when things aren’t so hectic. The reasons are two-fold: 1) the cost (free is always good) and 2) I really don’t want to spend what little time off I have away from my family.
If our priests must have this CE (a debatable point which I will conceded for the sake of argument), why can’t they be offered it gratis and/or electronically? But let’s be honest, the way I see it, the OCA should mandate weekly sabbaticals every year where our parish priests could go to a monastery and unwind, confess to their spiritual fathers, attend liturgy as a layman, live as a monk without any of the hassles of trying to be the CEO of their parish, etc. Note I said “sabbatical,” not a vacation –which they also need. And yes it should be mandated that their transportation should be paid for by their parish. If their parish can’t afford it then the dioceses should, or Syosset.
What I fear is that what is really going on here is Syosset finding yet more creative ways to feather their own nest by creating yet another bureaucracy on the national level. Regardless, it is simply unconscionable for Syosset to place yet more burdens on their overworked and underpaid priests. If they demanded that the parishes step up to the plate and rectified the salary situation, plus the normal perks of employment (mandatory vacation, pensions, etc.) then maybe they could impose CE on them. Until this happens, forget it.
Sue, it does, in deed, appear that we are in agreement that priests would likely benefit from developing an awareness of community resources that parishioners might benefit from at certain times, but in my opinion, these “educational requirements” won’t do that. If we want that accomplished this it should be incorporated into seminary education and/or required by the bishop in the form of a personal mandate not some vague central policy that depersonalizes things. Plus, this requirement doesn’t have much if anything to do with what we’re suggesting here. Compulsory “education” for adults with advanced degrees is almost always a waste of time, energy & money for all the reasons that Michael, George & I outlined above.
George, excellent idea about a 1 week sabbatical at a monastery, separate from vacation, financed by the parish that would meet an “educational requirement”.
This is a reply to Seraphim, endrunning the lack of reply buttons!
I have been subject to continuing education requirements. I do understand the shortfalls that both you and our host George outlined. I do not disagree with you.
I am not happy to see this education requirement as a national rollout. I believe with all my heart that one of the vital roles of a bishop is to educate and shepherd his priests. “Divide the truth rightly.” One of the tragedies in the OCA is all of the orphaned dioceses, and this is one of many reasons – no guidance for the priests.
Now that said, and accepting all of George’s issues with compensation and so forth, let me see if I can make the point articulately. I agree with your take.
M.S.’s post touched a chord in me because 1) the need for education/formation for our clergy in the counseling area is a real one. 2) they do not get it in seminary from what I have been able to see. 3) some loving, pious priest are doing damage by acting as councilors when they don’t know what they are doing 4) minimally, they need to know enough about resources available to make referrals to someone competent 5) it takes some education (and some humility) to know when you are out of your depth when “helping” someone in crisis.
Mr. Stankovich’s suggestions do not require a national program, but really could go a long way in helping priests get some grounding that is desperately needed. I don’t necessarily find the Syosset solution as optimal, but I do agree that the need is there, and I think M.S’s suggestion was helpful.
Now that was way too many key strokes, and the point was a narrow one, but I felt that Mr Stankovich deserved his due.
Its pretty sad that this was the most optimistic piece of news that I read today, but after 12-hours in the office & reading about more senseless killing in the Boston Marathon bombing this was, in deed, the bright spot in my scouring of headlines.
In fairness to Bishop Matthias, he wasn’t the mastermind of the stinkbomb. It was put together by the Syosset group-think experts — lawyers, bishops who think they know something, and simpleton priests in authority. Bishop Matthias jumped the gun on publishing it before the others, some say before the document was finished to their liking. (Imagine what other lies they could have included if they had more time to think of them!) So let’s be sure to give credit for the stinkbomb to the entire OCA synod and administration who own this mess they’ve created.
One could conceivably read the letter as you have, other folks may not. Again, not to argue but to provide information and context, I direct readers to the Letter:
If this refers to the conviction of Bishop Tikhon Fitzgerald that “No Local Church wants Metropolitan Jonah” … was there any confusion that “as a bishop” was implied rather than “as a retreat speaker”?
James, you have a point. Being a public speaker/teacher and being a bishop are not the same thing.
There is another point as well– one that I assumed this post was making– and that is that people love and respect Met. Jonah and that he is able to be a blessing to the Orthodox faithful in America. It is close to unfathomable to think of his public ministry ending– and what a tragedy that would be!
It is sadly true that the love, respect, and desire that people have to be ministered to by Met. Jonah is simply not there for most other bishops in the Orthodox world. You don’t see people crying out for Met. Herman to return to public ministry, nor would you be likely to see such enduring love for many of the bishops serving now.
N.B. This is not to say that this makes them bad bishops, but it does lend itself to envy.
To say nothing of the fact that if Jonah were anything resembling the miscreant written about in the Stinkbomb Letter (or the whisperings on OCAN) then there’d be no way in H E Double-toothpicks anybody in their right mind would want him speaking at a Christian retreat.
I guess we can file this under: Syosset Having No Credibility Whatsoever.
I was at the theological semenary as a visitor, a guest of the hieromonk, who lives in Monks Lagoon now. If his plans worked out well, as he had the permission of the Ozinkie Land Corp.What I recall, was the joy with which Met. Jonah was recieved on that day in Kodiack by the clergy, seminarians, and laity. It is a sad thing, to see this hope of a good servant, well loved to be cast off.I knew nothing of the Met, but I know when the people are rejoicing, as these truly were.
I personally would love to see Metr. Jonah back here, preferably at his own monastery. I doubt that this will happen, however. I think the OCA ‘apparatus’ has stepped in too many cow patties in the last few years to get their feet clean.
Why should the Metropolitan come under the Bishop of the West when his former Manton monks have already fled to another monastery or to abroad? Why shouldn’t he have an archbishopric with monasteries and / or create monasteries within his archdiocese?
Our family has decided to tithe only to specific ministries within our local parish, plus have started to build relationships with the local ROCOR parish.
Said it before: our tithes will not go to any OCA receptacle while this Synod remains unrepentant. FOCUS looks good, we have also given to Hermitage of the Holy Cross, and to Orthodox prison ministries (of ROCOR), as well as to suffering Orthodox Christians, and non-Orthodox Christians.
Once again, my tithes, small as they may be, are a trust from God, and I would be a poor steward indeed to use them to fund the train wreck in Syosset.
Everyday Saints and Other Stories by Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov) I was reading this book late last night and came across the chapter on Bishop Basil (Rodzyanko). Imagine my surprise when I came across this sentence on page 374: But as it happens, he ended up like a fish out of water, not so much for his energetic missionary activity as for his conflict with a very powerful lobby – a group who advocated certain practices that have no place in in the Orthodox Church.
later on page 399 this: Sometimes during his life the bishop used to call himself “the reposed” bishop.” That is because under his status he was merely a retired bishop, who had been fired (or sent “into retirement,” a phrase that in Russian sounds like being “laid to rest”) from the American Autocephalous Church. A bishop who has been “retired” in fact is no longer really a bishop, and no longer makes any official decisions about formal ecclesiastical matters. That is why the bishop from time to time used to joke about himself that he was “the reposed Bishop Basil.”
and it goes on But he was indeed a real bishop! He truly governed without borders the human souls who crossed his earthly path. He did so with the indefatigable force of that remarkable power which to this day continues to bless those who had the joy of knowing Bishop Basil and experiencing his unforgettable and irreplaceable goodness, faith and love.
Now I understand the meaning of the retreat announcement above. Very fitting.
History shows us many things about ourselves. And history, sometimes called ‘His Story,’ shows us, as the two thieves on the cross show us, that we have a choice each and every day: to be in paradise with God or to reject Him.
In 1981 or 1982, I attended a Saturday liturgy at Holy Trinity, the little OCA church in the Cascade mountain foothills, in the village of Wilkeson, Washington. I had discovered the church nearly by chance, and went to services there a few times a year back then. Fr. Vadim Pogrebniak would come down on Saturdays a couple times per month from St. Spiridon’s in Seattle.
Anyway, I walked into this service, and it turned out that morning that the Bishop was there from San Francisco. I had never seen an Orthodox bishop before (and not since, come to think of it). It was Bishop Basil. He made an unforgettable impression on me.
Though clothed in brilliant vestments, he was completely humble in his appearance and words. It was at or near the feast of the Transfiguration. After the reading of one of the gospel accounts, he began to speak. He talked in a completely matter-of-fact way about the Transfiguration, as if he had just talked directly with Peter about what he had seen. Suddenly, it hit me like a bolt from the blue– he believed! Not metaphorically, not even as a matter of professing faith; but pure, simple belief. It’s hard to put into words exactly.
And he was quiet, modest, and had a long grey beard. I thought, this man is a true bishop of Christ’s church– he could be Polycarp or Ignatius, not like the “corporate” bishops I had seen before, at the head tables with the politicians.
I thought, if he could believe like that, perhaps I could, too.
Only in recent years, in the internet age, did I look him up. He was +Basil Rodzianko, and I learned something of his story. But I have often spoken about this experience to others.
“…it not only says that bishops must pay heed to themselves but also to the flock that the Savior acquired by his blood. And just as he will not fall if he is attentive to himself by taking care for both the requisite virtues and his faith… so also he must take care for the flock by turning away from it the wolves who are falsely called apostles and who, being ravenous, live on the ruin of the flock…. Now he turns away these wolves, if he, established by the Holy Spirit to oversee the church, is a good shepherd” (Catena on the Acts of the Apostles 20:28, quoted in Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, vol. 5, p. 254f).
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Interesting there is a winepress found in Isreal 6th century and it had a lantern shaped like a church. Little things like that make us thing. Anyway, the wine was probably going to Africa and Europe and even barbaric Europe.
How long will this go on? Metropolitan JONAH has been requested by ROCOR –now do they have to request him again? George, do you know what (if anything) is being done currently? I’m glad someone is paying +Jonah’s rent and he has the Foundation assisting him, but to me the main injustice is the false, slanderous letter written by Bishop MATTHIAS, which went out to the world press, calling +Jonah a co-conspirator in rape, and associating him with the pedophilia of Jerry Sandusky. This MUST be repented of publicly, because the lies were made public and the media all over the world picked up on it. The OCA holy Synod and our Syosset administration will have NO credibility until this gross injustice is addressed.
It has recently been reaffirmed to me that the reason the OCA doesn’t hear more outcry from other jurisdictions about this shame is because the die of their opinion of the OCA has already been cast, and the OCA has been written off as shameful and irrelevant to them.
I keep hearing how other jurisdictions want nothing to do with the OCA: and that is one of the reasons they are slow to act in regards to +Jonah. Having “OCA” on one’s pedigree these days does not engender trust to those not on this dizzying merry-go-round.
And the barking Hounds of Syosset makes the prospect of dealing with the OCA’s release of +Jonah even less attractive. The only way to make sense of their actions is to arrive at the conclusion that they don’t want +Jonah to go anywhere else, and/ or to serve in any significant way. They want to keep him where they can punish him. This is why they issued “information” about their attempts to respect Pat. Kirill’s request to make him comfortable; but they misrepresented much of their offer and +Jonah’s replies: to provide a veneer of “good faith” towards His Beatitude. This, I don’t believe, does anything to change anyone’s opinion of the truth, but mostly plants enough seeds of doubt such that clergy and laity don’t riot.
If you ask a Greek, Antiochian, and ROCOR clergyman or informed layperson about the situation, you’re almost certain to find that they have no trust in the OCA and the “information” they disperse. In my experience this is true regardless of whether or not they know or like +Jonah.
I am more convinced than ever that, regardless of what happens with +Jonah, the OCA dealt itself a serious and critical blows when it stared swinging at its primate. I doubt it will ever recover.
” The only way to make sense of their [the Synod’s] actions is to arrive at the conclusion that they don’t want +Jonah to go anywhere else, and/ or to serve in any significant way. They want to keep him where they can punish him. This is why they issued “information” about their attempts to respect Pat. Kirill’s request to make him comfortable; but they misrepresented much of their offer and +Jonah’s replies: to provide a veneer of “good faith” towards His Beatitude. This, I don’t believe, does anything to change anyone’s opinion of the truth, but mostly plants enough seeds of doubt such that clergy and laity don’t riot.”
This seems to be the most accurate insight I’ve read yet. I think think the Synod is paying close attention to the legal team and Priest Jillions on how best to deal with Met. Jonah just in case something comes of the issue mentioned in the release letter from back when. They are all about “veneer” – to appear kind, loving, wanting to ‘take care of their brother’ when in truth they hope that the ‘faithful’ will be like ‘dumb’ sheep. If enough time goes by then maybe the faithful will forget.
Thanks Jesse for such good thoughts and insight.
Jesse says: “I am more convinced than ever that, regardless of what happens with +Jonah, the OCA dealt itself a serious and critical blows when it stared swinging at its primate. I doubt it will ever recover.”
Well put. Unfortunately, this is the very sad reality. I’ve been a believer in the OCA “forever”, but this really turned me off, not with respect to the OCA’s mission but rather to its credibility & integrity. The synod put out their official letter on +Jonah last July, which turned out to filled with inaccuracies as well as some patently false information that essentially slandered +Jonah…then they never issued a follow-up statement to clarify or retract that letter. Unbelievable!
I have deep respect for now Metropolitan Tikhon, and I have ever since he was a hieromonk at the monastery. He’s a man of profound humility & authentic prayerfulness. However, as we’ve seen thus far the personality of the primate is not enough to set right what is awry in the synod so I don’t see much of a reason for optimism.
The see of SF is held by a man who’s been arrested & convicted of DUI, Shy-town by a man acknowledged by his brothers on the synod to have sexually harassed a young woman in his diocese, the Bulgarian see’s bishop tried to sell the argument to the faithful of Chicago & the Midwest that they ought to take +Matthais back because he was not really guilty of “sexual misconduct” but only of “the lowest end of sexual harassment.” Talk about hair-splitting, legalistic, hypocrisy? None of this passes the straight-face test. When I was young & single I could have rationalized this nonsense, but now that I’m married & bringing up a family I can’t justify the unjustifiable to my wife & children, extended family & friends without damaging my own credibility & integrity.
It’s tragic because Istanbul is salivating over the “new world” & you know they don’t give much emphasis to the indigenous culture being integrated into the local church…just more of the imperial episcopate & ethnocentrism despite their claims to the contrary. Who will credibly force a balance now?
Lord have mercy!
Seraphim, you hit the nail right on the head. As to why the other jurisdictions have not said anything, there’s an old Napoleonic maxim that goes something like this: “when your enemy is trying to commit suicide, get out of the way.”
The OCA, which was once a beacon, an example even, was also an irritant at times. This was during the best of times. Now it is nothing more than a laughingstock; at best it’s a bad example.
Agreed, but the most disturbing aspect of this progressively worsening debacle is that the OCA’s synod appears completely oblivious to the fact that virtually every recent decision it makes further undermines its credibility & integrity in the hearts & minds of both those within as well as those without.
This is due to it a departure from the “traditional” & “canonical” models of ecclesiastical governance which have been replaced with contemporary secular models of corporate management. The recent “continuing education” requirement for clergy (i.e., parish priests) is the quintessential example of this foolishness. This is not just a worthless requirement – its altogether asinine. Orthodox pastors in the US already have plenty of education, and academic feathers in their caps don’t do anything to bolster the priest’s pastoral skills, which is really what the parish priest needs. You can’t intellectualize your parishioners in place of ministering to their souls. I’m a family doc, so I have all types of “continuing medical education” (CME) requirements that I must meet for national, state and local hospital standards, but in my experience 99% of the time they just turn out to be more bureaucratic hoops to jump through with little practical value because I (and most younger physicians) keep myself up to date on medical/scientific developments real-time simply because I have to in order to provide good care. I liken all these corporate changes to a Dilbert-meets-medicine & Dilbert-meets-ministry nightmare. It replaces the personal with the impersonal, the local with the central, the practical with the impractical. Progress, right?
What is one to do? I watch all this with a heavy heart while I dumfoundedly scratch my head.
Seraphim,
Your comment makes no sense to me. The average adult male watches more than 20 hours of television in a week, let alone pursuing anything like continuing education.
I suspect you know little of theological education in the US, but there is nothing comparable to student rotations through services, mentoring, residency, fellowship, supervision, standardized examination of “basic competency,” or even assessment of common sense. I do not mean to make light of the fact that the Service of the Ordination of a Priest declares that the “Divine Grace always completes that which is wanting through the laying-on of hands,” but it is naive to imagine this simply “happens.” I am thoroughly trained in the provision of psychotherapy & structural family therapy, and when a priest tells me they are “counseling a couple” with “marriage problems,” equiped with only the education we received at seminary, I cringe.
Secondly, any decent, competent physician establishes for themselves peers whom they trust for referral; individuals whom they are confident will provide the best & most ethical care available. For the life of me, I cannot understand priests who establish themselves in communities, who are frequently the first person contacted when there is an “issue” or crisis in an individual or family, but have not taken the time to identify community services prior to necessity. And by identify, I mean “interviewing” agencies or individuals, establishing that they are credible, accredited, and ethical providers who are open & willing to speak with an Orthodox priest. In increasingly more states, priests are mandated reporters of suspected child & spousal abuse; ignorance of responsibility and signs of abuse are no excuse under the law, and certainly not morally. Where are AA, NA, Al-Anon meetings? Every priest should have an updated list of meetings and be willing to transport, suggesting they should have already been to meetings to orient themselves as to what to expect.
So, Seraphim, I ask you: as you scratch your head, might you consider the yearly “requirement” of continuing education could easily be fulfilled by making the rounds of community resources (perhaps even volunteering a half day at a clinic or agency), sitting for an afternoon in the gallery of Family Court learning the process(-es) (e.g. how to get an order of protection without a lawyer), or attending one representative 12-step fellowship meeting of each of AA, NA, Al-Anon and staying around after for coffee & informal discussion? Granted, this is not fostering the priestly function, but rather the shepherd. Nothing I have suggested comes at a cost beyond time. It is, in fact, the Grace Divine which transforms the “impersonal” into the “personal.” I am amazed to this day when an individual or family describes the impact of a “collateral” professional who finally says, “I know what to do, and I’ll help you.” Amazing. And thanks to God there are such priests. But there should be many more.
As an aside, one of the greatest gifts I have received is an account to reach the medical library from home. Granted I am involved in research, but the ability to access any full-text journal I wish is extraordinary. Theology CE’s, CME’s, GR, teleconferences, you name it, are either “bureaucratic hoops,” or another articulation of “O Lord, how manifold are your works! in wisdom have You made them all!” (Ps. 103:24) My thought: not enough time left to “capture” everything I would wish. But I try.
Mr. Stankovich,
I often disagree with your posts. Not this time. You have hit it squarely on the head. I have done more than cringe. I have wept at the damage wrought by well meaning but ill equipped priest-as-councillor.
My hope is that the continuing education credits ARE used exactly as you described. Unfortunately, the program has been set up to be “self funding.” I fear that means that Syosset will determine what courses are required and will probably set up and deliver them, for a fee, of course. I pray the offerings and requirements move in the direction you describe above.
Your suggestions cost nothing, yet are priceless in giving a young priest the grounding required not only to be a “first responder” for crises referred to him, but also gives him a place to refer situations that are clearly beyond his competence, in addition to prayer (always vital, to be sure.)
And for those priests who may simply lurk (read without ever commenting) here, I would second Mr. Stankovich’s recommendations, regardless of the education requirement of the OCA or any other jurisdiction. The price is your attention and time. The payoff is blessings yet unknown for those in your flock that suffer.
Sue, you stated: Unfortunately, the program [i.e., the new continuing theological education requirements for priests in the OCA] has been set up to be “self funding.” I fear that means that Syosset will determine what courses are required and will probably set up and deliver them, for a fee, of course.
Agreed, and this is precisely my objection. I think that M. Stankovich’s recommendation that priests receive education about resources that are available in the local community & how to connect people to them when appropriate is a fine idea (one that ought to be incorporated into basic seminary instruction), but that is NOT what this is about. M. Stankovich, who I often agree with, has presented a very romanticized rendition of what this will actually turn out to be, and that is because he has confused the theoretical with the actual (no offense intended).
In reality, this requirement, which I wager is going to be interpreted as broad in its definition, will just turn out to be one more thing that the already over-worked & under-appreciated/under-paid parish priest has to cram into his already over-packed schedule, likely at a financial cost as well, taking time away from his personal/prayer life, family life & parishioners in order to meet a one-size-fits-all requirement from “Syosset”. Genius!
One could argue that this type of requirement makes sense for physicians because science & the practice of evidence based medicine is constantly evolving; however, “the faith…was once for all delivered to the saints” – it does not change.
Mark my words, all this will be self-evident with the passage of time. Just ask your parish priest about it as the next few years roll by.
You said it. It’s just another feather in the cap of American Ortho-Corporatism, to make the OCA look shiny and “with it.” Instead, it will turn into a boondoggle which will drive even more men out of the priesthood. And then it will just wither away do to disinterest.
My father was a physician and I am in a profession that requires continuing ed. The CE programs are a joke. They do not address the real problems with real solutions as the information they do provide is well behind the curve. Regulations and products and procedures change far too often and too quickly for the CE providers to keep up.
When my father was doing them, he went for a nice lunch at one of the hospitals and had some time with other doctors. Used to be that way in my line of work too, now its all on the internet with canned progams that are certified for X number of hours that can be completed in 15 to 20 minutes.
The only way to keep current is to read professional literature and deal with real problems. In the priest’s case, the practical and local approach which M.S. suggests is a good idea. In addition, the priest needs to read the fathers, the Bible and listen to his parishoners.
An internet based course on Patristics with attention to particular subjects such as Christian anthropology, suffering, etc. might work. Well prepared and open to lay folks as well, it could acutally be a money maker.
Seraphim,
I think we maybe are typing past each other. I fundamentally agree that the rollout of this requirement leaves something to be desired. I can see it being abused or being another meaningless “requirement” to further burden our parish priests.
Nonetheless, my point, is that the kinds of education opportunities described by Mr Stankovich are needed in our parishes. It is not taught in the seminaries, and is sorely needed. His point I think, and mine, is that this sort of experience does not require a fee. A parish priest is asked to be jack of all trades, and it would be a help, I would think, to know what the available resources are, and have enough personal experience of them that one could refer a parishioner with some confidence.
So I think we may be in “violent agreement.” But whatever Syosset does, or doesn’t do, this kind of experience is needed, and I would invite priests to consider doing just as Mr. Stankovich recommends, continuing education programs notwithstanding. Additionally, I would invite Syosset to include such experiences in the “required hours.”
This program and rollout might not have been optimum, but the need is there. Perhaps tweaking of this type can bring value to both the priests and the faithful they serve.
A blessed Lent to you.
Sue, speaking for myself as somebody who must take fifteen hours of CE every year to maintain my license, I can honestly tell you that there are better ways to exact these requirements from the professional in question. Sure, I could spend the money to go on a ski retreat or sea cruise, or I could spend six hours of my (very little) time off to go to a lecture at the local medical school or conference center. I can also now do CE online. Some I have to pay for, some is free (believe it or not). I choose to do it on-line and if possible during working hours in the evening or on weekends when things aren’t so hectic. The reasons are two-fold: 1) the cost (free is always good) and 2) I really don’t want to spend what little time off I have away from my family.
If our priests must have this CE (a debatable point which I will conceded for the sake of argument), why can’t they be offered it gratis and/or electronically? But let’s be honest, the way I see it, the OCA should mandate weekly sabbaticals every year where our parish priests could go to a monastery and unwind, confess to their spiritual fathers, attend liturgy as a layman, live as a monk without any of the hassles of trying to be the CEO of their parish, etc. Note I said “sabbatical,” not a vacation –which they also need. And yes it should be mandated that their transportation should be paid for by their parish. If their parish can’t afford it then the dioceses should, or Syosset.
What I fear is that what is really going on here is Syosset finding yet more creative ways to feather their own nest by creating yet another bureaucracy on the national level. Regardless, it is simply unconscionable for Syosset to place yet more burdens on their overworked and underpaid priests. If they demanded that the parishes step up to the plate and rectified the salary situation, plus the normal perks of employment (mandatory vacation, pensions, etc.) then maybe they could impose CE on them. Until this happens, forget it.
Sue, it does, in deed, appear that we are in agreement that priests would likely benefit from developing an awareness of community resources that parishioners might benefit from at certain times, but in my opinion, these “educational requirements” won’t do that. If we want that accomplished this it should be incorporated into seminary education and/or required by the bishop in the form of a personal mandate not some vague central policy that depersonalizes things. Plus, this requirement doesn’t have much if anything to do with what we’re suggesting here. Compulsory “education” for adults with advanced degrees is almost always a waste of time, energy & money for all the reasons that Michael, George & I outlined above.
George, excellent idea about a 1 week sabbatical at a monastery, separate from vacation, financed by the parish that would meet an “educational requirement”.
A blessed Lent to you all as well!
This is a reply to Seraphim, endrunning the lack of reply buttons!
I have been subject to continuing education requirements. I do understand the shortfalls that both you and our host George outlined. I do not disagree with you.
I am not happy to see this education requirement as a national rollout. I believe with all my heart that one of the vital roles of a bishop is to educate and shepherd his priests. “Divide the truth rightly.” One of the tragedies in the OCA is all of the orphaned dioceses, and this is one of many reasons – no guidance for the priests.
Now that said, and accepting all of George’s issues with compensation and so forth, let me see if I can make the point articulately. I agree with your take.
M.S.’s post touched a chord in me because 1) the need for education/formation for our clergy in the counseling area is a real one. 2) they do not get it in seminary from what I have been able to see. 3) some loving, pious priest are doing damage by acting as councilors when they don’t know what they are doing 4) minimally, they need to know enough about resources available to make referrals to someone competent 5) it takes some education (and some humility) to know when you are out of your depth when “helping” someone in crisis.
Mr. Stankovich’s suggestions do not require a national program, but really could go a long way in helping priests get some grounding that is desperately needed. I don’t necessarily find the Syosset solution as optimal, but I do agree that the need is there, and I think M.S’s suggestion was helpful.
Now that was way too many key strokes, and the point was a narrow one, but I felt that Mr Stankovich deserved his due.
More than ’nuff said!
Looks like the OCA’s holy synod finally did the right thing & asked +Matthias to resign:
http://oca.org/news/headline-news/metropolitan-tikhon-addresses-clergy-faithful-of-the-diocese-of-the-midwest
Its pretty sad that this was the most optimistic piece of news that I read today, but after 12-hours in the office & reading about more senseless killing in the Boston Marathon bombing this was, in deed, the bright spot in my scouring of headlines.
In fairness to Bishop Matthias, he wasn’t the mastermind of the stinkbomb. It was put together by the Syosset group-think experts — lawyers, bishops who think they know something, and simpleton priests in authority. Bishop Matthias jumped the gun on publishing it before the others, some say before the document was finished to their liking. (Imagine what other lies they could have included if they had more time to think of them!) So let’s be sure to give credit for the stinkbomb to the entire OCA synod and administration who own this mess they’ve created.
One could conceivably read the letter as you have, other folks may not. Again, not to argue but to provide information and context, I direct readers to the Letter:
http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
There are many across the country — including the Diocese of the West — who would love to have Met. Jonah near them.
Has the OCA no empty archbishoprics? Give him a staff and there’s a great archbishop.
What makes you think the Synod would give that to Met. Jonah? You haven’t been paying much attention the past two years.
If this refers to the conviction of Bishop Tikhon Fitzgerald that “No Local Church wants Metropolitan Jonah” … was there any confusion that “as a bishop” was implied rather than “as a retreat speaker”?
James, you have a point. Being a public speaker/teacher and being a bishop are not the same thing.
There is another point as well– one that I assumed this post was making– and that is that people love and respect Met. Jonah and that he is able to be a blessing to the Orthodox faithful in America. It is close to unfathomable to think of his public ministry ending– and what a tragedy that would be!
It is sadly true that the love, respect, and desire that people have to be ministered to by Met. Jonah is simply not there for most other bishops in the Orthodox world. You don’t see people crying out for Met. Herman to return to public ministry, nor would you be likely to see such enduring love for many of the bishops serving now.
N.B. This is not to say that this makes them bad bishops, but it does lend itself to envy.
To say nothing of the fact that if Jonah were anything resembling the miscreant written about in the Stinkbomb Letter (or the whisperings on OCAN) then there’d be no way in H E Double-toothpicks anybody in their right mind would want him speaking at a Christian retreat.
I guess we can file this under: Syosset Having No Credibility Whatsoever.
I was at the theological semenary as a visitor, a guest of the hieromonk, who lives in Monks Lagoon now. If his plans worked out well, as he had the permission of the Ozinkie Land Corp.What I recall, was the joy with which Met. Jonah was recieved on that day in Kodiack by the clergy, seminarians, and laity. It is a sad thing, to see this hope of a good servant, well loved to be cast off.I knew nothing of the Met, but I know when the people are rejoicing, as these truly were.
the Isaiah reading on the OCA website says it all.
I personally would love to see Metr. Jonah back here, preferably at his own monastery. I doubt that this will happen, however. I think the OCA ‘apparatus’ has stepped in too many cow patties in the last few years to get their feet clean.
Why should the Metropolitan come under the Bishop of the West when his former Manton monks have already fled to another monastery or to abroad? Why shouldn’t he have an archbishopric with monasteries and / or create monasteries within his archdiocese?
Our family has decided to tithe only to specific ministries within our local parish, plus have started to build relationships with the local ROCOR parish.
God bless you, Mendeleyev.
Said it before: our tithes will not go to any OCA receptacle while this Synod remains unrepentant. FOCUS looks good, we have also given to Hermitage of the Holy Cross, and to Orthodox prison ministries (of ROCOR), as well as to suffering Orthodox Christians, and non-Orthodox Christians.
Once again, my tithes, small as they may be, are a trust from God, and I would be a poor steward indeed to use them to fund the train wreck in Syosset.
No tithes to the OCA.
Everyday Saints and Other Stories by Archimandrite Tikhon (Shevkunov) I was reading this book late last night and came across the chapter on Bishop Basil (Rodzyanko). Imagine my surprise when I came across this sentence on page 374: But as it happens, he ended up like a fish out of water, not so much for his energetic missionary activity as for his conflict with a very powerful lobby – a group who advocated certain practices that have no place in in the Orthodox Church.
later on page 399 this: Sometimes during his life the bishop used to call himself “the reposed” bishop.” That is because under his status he was merely a retired bishop, who had been fired (or sent “into retirement,” a phrase that in Russian sounds like being “laid to rest”) from the American Autocephalous Church. A bishop who has been “retired” in fact is no longer really a bishop, and no longer makes any official decisions about formal ecclesiastical matters. That is why the bishop from time to time used to joke about himself that he was “the reposed Bishop Basil.”
and it goes on But he was indeed a real bishop! He truly governed without borders the human souls who crossed his earthly path. He did so with the indefatigable force of that remarkable power which to this day continues to bless those who had the joy of knowing Bishop Basil and experiencing his unforgettable and irreplaceable goodness, faith and love.
Now I understand the meaning of the retreat announcement above. Very fitting.
History shows us many things about ourselves. And history, sometimes called ‘His Story,’ shows us, as the two thieves on the cross show us, that we have a choice each and every day: to be in paradise with God or to reject Him.
In 1981 or 1982, I attended a Saturday liturgy at Holy Trinity, the little OCA church in the Cascade mountain foothills, in the village of Wilkeson, Washington. I had discovered the church nearly by chance, and went to services there a few times a year back then. Fr. Vadim Pogrebniak would come down on Saturdays a couple times per month from St. Spiridon’s in Seattle.
Anyway, I walked into this service, and it turned out that morning that the Bishop was there from San Francisco. I had never seen an Orthodox bishop before (and not since, come to think of it). It was Bishop Basil. He made an unforgettable impression on me.
Though clothed in brilliant vestments, he was completely humble in his appearance and words. It was at or near the feast of the Transfiguration. After the reading of one of the gospel accounts, he began to speak. He talked in a completely matter-of-fact way about the Transfiguration, as if he had just talked directly with Peter about what he had seen. Suddenly, it hit me like a bolt from the blue– he believed! Not metaphorically, not even as a matter of professing faith; but pure, simple belief. It’s hard to put into words exactly.
And he was quiet, modest, and had a long grey beard. I thought, this man is a true bishop of Christ’s church– he could be Polycarp or Ignatius, not like the “corporate” bishops I had seen before, at the head tables with the politicians.
I thought, if he could believe like that, perhaps I could, too.
Only in recent years, in the internet age, did I look him up. He was +Basil Rodzianko, and I learned something of his story. But I have often spoken about this experience to others.
Tim,
And sadly, Bishop Basil went the same way as other OCA bishops who dared to be simple believers and who had no time to play political games.
Bishop Basil was a great and holy man. May his memory be eternal!
April 13, 2013:
Let us take refuge in the Lord (part 1):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzbJw-4prWU
Let us take refuge in the Lord (part 2):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhBSIwc9gk4
“…it not only says that bishops must pay heed to themselves but also to the flock that the Savior acquired by his blood. And just as he will not fall if he is attentive to himself by taking care for both the requisite virtues and his faith… so also he must take care for the flock by turning away from it the wolves who are falsely called apostles and who, being ravenous, live on the ruin of the flock…. Now he turns away these wolves, if he, established by the Holy Spirit to oversee the church, is a good shepherd” (Catena on the Acts of the Apostles 20:28, quoted in Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, vol. 5, p. 254f).