Archbishop Elpidophorous celebrates his first gay baptism (that we know of) in the Orthodox Church.
By now, you all know which “plot” I’m referring to: the various intrigues that went into the planning of the Big Fat Greek Gay Baptism in Greece. To say this event has caused a furor is an understatement.
What’s done is done. Let us now engage in the tedious (and distasteful) work of looking at the entrails of this controversy; and there is a lot to look at, unfortunately.
In my earlier analysis, I took the word of Antonios, the Metropolitan of Glyfada; that is to say that he was “deceived” by Archbishop Elpidophoros of America. In other words, he allowed one of his parishes to serve as the site of this spectacle, unknowingly, thinking that the “family” in question was just another normal family. You know; Hubby, Wifey, Yiayia, and Pappou, and perhaps an older sibling or two. Something like that.
More to the point, those who were burned by this scandal have retreated into defensive positions (alas, not Dn John Chryssavgis who continues to pour gasoline onto the fire). I’m speaking specifically of Archbishop Iernonymos of Athens and Patriarch Bartholomew, himself. Fingers are being furiously pointed at others in order to deflect the blame. Indeed, the Holy Synod in Istanbul gave Bartholomew an earful, as was reported in orthochristian.com, so much so that the elevation of Alexander Belya to the episcopate was delayed, perhaps indefinitely (perhaps not).
For a more succinct analysis of this debacle, I direct you to Nick Stamatakis’ excellent expose in Helleniscope: How Much Was the Payment for the Baptism? Elpidophoros, Bartholomew AND Ieronymos Share the Blame!! – Helleniscope
Regardless, there is no escaping the fact that the baptism in question was elaborately planned. And the “parents” were flexible enough when confronted with obstacles. The first obstacle was that the Dundas-Bousis couple wished for this baptism to take place at St Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles, the epicenter of their lives as Hollywood glitterati. When Metropolitan Gerasimos of San Francisco refused, they decided to “up” their game and have a “destination baptism,” in this case in Greece, which I suspect will soon be all the rage. Expect more baptisms to follow at other exotic places attached to the Phanar.
Then one day there will be that same-sex couple who will want to “out-do the Jones”. You know, do something a little bigger and better. They’re going to want to be married with the baptism! You know, sort of a family affair.
Now, how could a nice Church refuse? Elpidophoros will say, “Can we really expect the parents not to commune with their infants?”
It’s uncertain at what point Elpidophoros got involved in this current baptism. But considering he would have to make after-party arrangements at the Greek version of Eleven Madison Park, find the best photographer in Greece, advise the wedding party, err, baptism attendants, what the dress code should be, (probably having to settle for the white, bare midriffs of the godmothers, in exchange for nixing the black, backless, evening gowns split to the waist they intended to wear, and in all the commotion, completely overlooking the bare-shouldered blond in the bright pink prom dress – oops – I mean, there is so much to do), collecting a sizable remuneration for his benefactors at the Phanar and in Athens for their “trouble”, as well as a chunk of change for himself in the event he finds himself at the end of the unemployment line.
Then, of course, he had to schedule his own trip to Greece, lest anyone be the wiser, help Met. Antonios of Glyfada write his denial letter . . . you know, all the usual things one does when planning for the “First Gay Baptism in the Orthodox Church.”
Why did he see the necessity to be front and center? He could have directed the couple to go to another diocese in America and quietly baptize the children, as we have learned another couple did under the radar just a few months ago; a dress rehearsal, so to speak.
It’s now clear why keeping it on the down-low was never in the cards. After all, the flamboyant Dundas-Bousis couple exhibits all the pride and arrogance we have come to expect from wealthy homosexuals, and the GOA, being hungry to receive worldly accolades (as well as the funds), took the bait.
Because of the worldliness of the Archon/L100 class, Elpidophoros has not received any repercussions from these elites, most of whom are completely on board with the bi-coastal, Globohomo regime. All things being equal, he should be able to ride this out. (As for the ordinary laymen in the pews however, that’s another story.)
And so, Elpidophoros, having proved himself to be a culture warrior (for the other side), saw no downside. Neither did his patron in Istanbul, who most assuredly gave him his blessing to go forward.
It is also clear that because Elpidophoros is the primate of the GOA, he had some pull with the Archbishop of Athens because the groundwork for a gay baptism had previously been laid. Surprise! (We were.)
Initially, we were convinced that Met. Antonios of Glyfada and AB Ieronymos were sincerely irate at the ‘misleading’ behavior of AB Elpidophoros.
Apparently, this was “not their first rodeo,” however.
“On October 24, 2021 (nine months ago), a baptism was performed for the progeny of yet another gay couple which also took place in Athens, a few days after they signed their ‘cohabitation agreement.’ (Greece does not allow gay civil weddings). Actors Michalis Economou and George Makris baptized their toddler, Nikiforos, at Saint Nicholas Ragavas, which is in Plaka right under the Acropolis; a church that belongs directly to the jurisdiction of the Archdiocese of Greece.
“Below, you can see their photo and for more info, please link here and here.
“What did the priests say to them during the baptism? According to the second link, the priests said: ‘the parents should always be in love and in love with Christ, and the child will be watching this love, and this is the love it will be searching for in his life when he is away from you…’
Actors Michalis Economou and George Makris, with their “son” Nikiphoros
“We can be sure that AB Ieronymos had given his OK for the event. Otherwise, the priests (if we believe the wording attributed to them) would not have proceeded in such a controversial sacrament. AB Ieronymos is ‘left-leaning.’ He was elected when the socialist (PASOK) government was in power. So his ‘progressive’ instincts are known to be true…”
Archbishop Ieronymos is a hypocrite, pure and simple. As we can see from this photograph, under his presidency, the Church of Greece has been quietly setting the stage for the normalization of gay nuptials. The Bousis-Dundas spectacle was merely the next step in this process; more high-profile to be sure, but not the first salvo in the culture war.
Make no mistake, however, none of this could have been accomplished without the support of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
It’s only with the blessing of the Phanar that a Greek primate situated in America could get the blessing to perform a baptism in the parish of another local Church. Therefore, it’s impossible to escape the implication that both the Greek hierarchy as well as the Ecumenical Patriarchate were willing to take this cultural battle to the next level. Elpidophoros, who enjoys massive Deep State popularity in the United States, was their agent-in-place. It was thought by the Phanar that his position was rock-solid as a primate in America. It was also their expectation that homosexualism (as well as transsexualism) had triumphed in the socio-political sphere in the West. Ieronymos of Athens, Antonios of Glyfada (and perhaps a few others), were there to provide the venue.
In any event, the Phanar, the Deep State, and the cultural commissars misjudged the tenor of the times. As for Elpidophoros, Ieronymos, and Bartholomew, it remains to be seen what the implications for their program going forward are. My instinct tells me that they’ve all screwed the pooch.
Why would anyone stay Greek Orthodox with this now (speaking about regular people, that is, not those whose incomes are tied to this stuff)? How can regular people fight this? Withholding contributions from their parish? Every priest reports to his higher-up that reports to his higher up, eventually Elpi… are we condoning this by contributing funds to our churches?
Yes. Give cash to your priest on his name day.
How can we stay Greek Orthodox? Wheat and tears my dear wheat and tears.
“Greek Orthodox” is bigger than the Phanar or this wicked generation. Look to Athos and the Athonite monasteries and the Old Calendarists. “Greek Orthodox” is more than whatever happens to be the religious convictions, or lack thereof, of some segment of the present Greek generation. It is synonymous with “Eastern Orthodoxy”, rather than the follies of a cross section of misguided Greeks. There are many pious Greeks in Greece and even here in America who maintain the faith.
There were Greek Orthodox
before there was ever a Phanar…
Don’t let the Phanar know that! Lol
The blessing of being Orthodox Christian in the United States is that we are learning that the fill-in-the-blank ethnic descriptor before the word Orthodox has little to no meaning. We have it completely wrong when we identify as Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, etc., instead of identifying first and foremost as Orthodox. The Orthodox world in the USA will experience the same failures of race-based identity if we continue to model ourselves after that labeling system. We are not African Americans, Latino Americans, Asian Americans, etc, but are Americans first. Identity politics has failed the USA and it is failing the Orthodox world also. We must be Orthodox first. It is the vision of the saints of this land. When we have fully grappled with the identity politics that have entered the church, and throw that off, we realize that our true identity in Christ is Orthodox Christian. Our very real struggle as Orthodox in the USA is to intentionally navigate around and through the man-made ethnic and jurisdictional lines to find The Church. It is here in the USA, and you will find it in places where people rightly and humbly identify themselves as Orthodox first.
Christine, very well said!
actually,
if any Greek person thinks Greekness before Orthodoxy,
such person is ethnically ILLITERATE!
We fought for the liberation from the Mohammedans (1821), saying
“HYPER PISTEOS KAI PATRIDOS” i.e.
“FOR FAITH AND COUNTRY”
and the leader emphasized,
“FIRST FOR THE FAITH….!”
Well-said, Christine.
Even though I was baptized 4 decades ago, I’ll take the humble newness and “Orthodox-mistake-making” of my Texan Orthodox convert brethren any day over this jacka$$ approach to Orthodox Christianity that many in the upper echelons of the Greek Archdiocese seem to have. (By the way, 98% of those in my family who were “born into the faith” have rejected their Orthodox baptism and have nothing to do with Christ or the Church anymore …. so there’s that reality too that our American churches too often completely ignore.)
“Abp” E and those with him have the spirit of the Jewish leaders who persecuted Jesus. Apb E seems that he’d be the first to say, “We are of the correct lineage and have impeccable pedigrees. Who is this nobody from Nazareth?”
The future of Orthodox Christianity in America lies with the young people who are flocking to our faith because, well, they want Truth, authenticity, and they want to know Christ. Think Fr. Turbo Qualls, David Patrick Harry, etc. The young generation who is *serious* about Christ and their faith.
It’s my opinion that this is what Christ wants — our hearts, our love of and for Him, and to be serious about wanting to be with Him. Christ is not milquetoast, insipid, or bland.
The future of our faith in this country doesn’t lie with these ethnic geezers who are the Orthodox equivalent of the tenured Ivy professor pushing wokism and LGBTQism down all of our throats: we hate it, we don’t want it, it’s clear as day to us that they’re out of touch and irrelevant, even if they don’t realize it.
I will not condemn the entire Greek Orthodox Church or any Orthodox Church just because there are a few bad apples in it. If you have a beautiful garden sometimes there are a few weeds growing in it and what do you do? You find a way to get them out of the yard. Do the same with the weeds that destroy our beautiful love for Christ and his church.
Tares in other words. Matthew’s Gospel makes it plain that the tares are to be separated at the last judgement by the angels of God. The Church is militant, that is in process awaiting the last day when the court is convened, and we hope we will escape judgement. It is not our job to ‘pull up weeds’ except in the gardens of our own souls. People here are so quick to judge others when everything in the Gospel tells us that is not our role in the Church.
Tell that to the Prophets.
St. Matthew’s Gospel also tells us this, Claes, in the eighteenth chapter:
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
I have spoken in private with Abp. Elpidophoros about Constantinople’s papal claim of primus sine paribus and about their intrusion into the independent affairs of the Ukrainian Church. He made his retort, but it was insufficient.
I have sent him a letter protesting his celebration of the Divine Liturgy in an apostate Episcopal parish in New York. He has not answered me.
Others, like the concerned Orthodox on this weblog have also challenged the heretical words and actions of those two. The hierarchs have not amended their ways. On the contrary, “the hits (offenses) just keep on coming”.
It is now time to tell it to the Church. If the Phanar does not repent, we must treat them like heathens and tax collectors. Abp. Elpi. and Pat. Bart. are not just lay minions like us. They set the tone for the whole Greek Orthodox Church here and elsewhere. They are not just “bad apples” or “tares”. Rather, they are in league with the Devil who sows the tares amongst the wheat. THEY MUST BE STOPPED before they take the Greek Orthodox Church down with them. If we pray and speak up, our feeble efforts may have salvific effects both for those two hierarchs and for the Church as a whole.
Couldn’t have said it better, my friend. That’s why I don’t use their titles when I refer to them. As far as I’m concerned THEY LEFT THE CHURCH.
Turkey has announced that it will start trading with Russia in Rubles and using the Mir Card, in part to help Russian tourists visiting Turkey.
Why do I mention this?
As Turkey continues to pivot towards Russia/Eurasia the noose around Bartholomew will continue to tighten and as the West continues its downward spiral “they” won’t be able to come to the aid of Bart. The West is losing in Ukraine and is being economically decimated domestically so I’m assuming they’ll be scraping Bart off the payroll.
Also…
Coming hot on the heels of Gaygate in Glyfada (which was massively unpopular in Greece) it has been announced that Bart, Dumenko and Ieronimos will be celebrating liturgy together in Athens next month. This is going to make the grave they’re digging for themselves just a few more feet deeper.
The Church has already given them a strong rebuke and I don’t think the whole of Greek Orthodoxy will be taken down with them…at least the Churches of Greece and Cyprus. Jury is still out on GOARCH.
I think many of us, both lay and clergy, of the various jurisdictions have come to the “acceptance phase” of ecclesiastical grief and are realizing that there is zero chance that Elpi, Bart or any of their ilk will ever be reprimanded by their Synod, so they will continue to be isolated from the rest of the Orthodox world and IF Elpi is even allowed to stay on the AoB I suspect he is all but dead in the water.
In response to Eleni:
That is the $64,000 question. Depending upon the makeup of one’s personality and the degree to which one has suffered in the past under episcopal misrule, the response will be different. I myself am a serious former cleric who has been fighting and regrouping from the onslaught of heresy for my entire adult life. Over the years, that foul tide flushed me toward Orthodoxy, and for that I am eternally grateful. I have finally discovered the Church of the Apostles, and though its customs are sort of weird, I can be confident that there is no farther to look.
Consider then how dismayed I was to see the infiltration of the atheistic utopian vanguard into Christ’s Church. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in particular has been severely compromised for the last century. The leadership’s forays into schism in the Ukraine, and into immorality regarding homosexuality and abortion, and the megabuck corruption in New York and Istanbul must not stand if the GOA wants to remain a canonical jurisdiction.
Throughout the so-called pandemic, I sat on the parish council of a Greek parish. That involvement gave me some insight into the inner workings of the broader Church. I saw some areas of strength in our metropolis’ governance, but other aspects were deeply troubling. One of those problems was the draconian measures that shut down the churches liturgical life in person and put it online. What a grave mistake that was! A misguided non sequitur! How can one participate in the mysteries, which are essentially tangible means of receiving intangible grace? It is a logical impossibility, and yet our parish followed the metropolitan directives to a tee. Even our medical officers were duped as they considered protection from a bug that kills only those whose health was already compromised by age, disease or obesity. And our priest was weak, knowing that he might very well be removed from his pastoral cure and transferred – or worse, deposed and left by the roadside along with his family.
And then there was the issue of money. There was some temporary abatement of the parochial assessment, but our treasurer made it clear to us that the metropolis was very keen to have its pound of flesh and our assessment for this year was a figure in excess of our income from stewardship pledges. Without the constant income from ownership of the land beneath the apartment next door, parish finances would run into the red. With this in perspective, it was particularly irksome to watch with suspicion the financial malfeasance in New York, especially the astronomical sums of money that just poured into the construction of a national shrine that looks more like a nuclear power plant than a temple.
Some who are Greek Hellenists have a primordial bond with the GOA – a bond that can deny or withstand the corruption, both theological and financial, that has so soiled that jurisdiction. Knowing now what I had come to know, and being the wary warrior that I am, I got to the point where I could no longer stomach the corruption and left the parish and vowed not to return to the GOA until it had had a major overhaul. I.e., penitence and amendment of life across the board.
Hardly a saint myself, I needed to find a purer expression of Orthodoxy to find healing for my own soul and advancement in the virtues. Thanks be to God there was a Russian parish to which I could repair for that purpose!
Not everyone is willing to pack up and leave his parish. Many Greeks have their ethnic bond to the GOA which prevents them from leaving. Some Converts from elsewhere remain ignorant of the heresy, schism and malfeasance. Or, they just feel comfortable in their habits. “See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.” Let them all know that a goodly portion of their financial contributions to the parish go to the metropolis and the archdiocese which is guilty of this corruption. Greek or not, if they feel that they must remain, it would behoove them to find a creative means of supporting their priest and his family that circumvents the need to pour money into a bottomless pit of corruption. Regardless of their personality type, loyalty to Christ and his greater Church demands that they pray for metanoia and that they protest the evil actions of Abp. Elpidophoros and Pat. Bartholomew.
There is a woeful lack of catechisis in the GOA, so ignorance of sacramental theology is a problem. Most laymen do not know that participation in the chalice at the parochial level is, among other things, an expression of support for the hierarch. Many months before I left my Greek parish, I decided that I could no longer remain loyal to hierarchs who were not loyal to Christ, so I stopped receiving the Eucharist and I stopped paying my pledge. Those were the practical means for me to both obey my conscience and express my displeasure. Months thereafter, weary of the cognitive dissonance, I left the parish altogether. Many others have chosen to do the same thing for similar reasons.
The watchword that directed me is, “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” II Cor. 6:17 It would behoove other Orthodox Christians to contemplate the implications of that verse of Scripture.
WOW !
Lawrence had an excellent response. I was at a GOA parish for 56 years before I recently left for another jurisdiction. I have a few other observations for later… no time to type now.
Dear Lawrence,
I wonder how many Greek Orthodox in America had the idea 10 years ago that Constantinople has supremacy over the Orthodox Church, as in, “The CP is the head of the Orthodox Church”. When I converted into the OCA 20+ years ago, and in the years afterward when I was active in the OCF and visiting GOARCH parishes occasionally, I was always under the impression that Orthodox simply rejected “First Without Equals” and the papal-style idea that one patriarch dictates to the others.
Since at least 2018, it looks like the CP has normalized this idea for most of the Hellenistic world because of his recognition of the OCU as a practical implementation of this supremacy principle.
Any Local Church can recognize the autocephaly of another church in their region. They typically announce it and ask for a blessing from the other Churches. This has nothing to do with supremacy.
The CP is just another Church in this regard.
Bartholomew likes to think he has no boundaries when it comes to granting autocephaly. Therein lies the problem. He goes into other other bishop’s territory like in Ukraine which is in Russia’s territory & Macidonia which is in Serbian territory and this is just his recent history. He has done this a lot.
The analogy that comes to mind is alpha dogs that trot around and pee high up the trees to show that they’re the masters of the neighborhood. It’s called “marking”. In like manner, Lord Bartholomew struts around Eastern Europe and the global “barbarian lands” as though he were the king of the pack.
It’s too bad that even castration is no guarantee of a change in this sort of canine behavior.
I like your analogy. Not one “housetrained” male dog has visited my house without peeing all over it!
When I came to Orthodoxy I encountered a certain Reddit forum dedicated to the subject. I raised the alarm about SJWs infiltrating the Church. I was met with furious denials, assurances that the culture war was that other thing out there the Evangelicals were doing but not really our thing. And it was all lies and deception. All of it. Now the truth is being exposed, and now we’re finding who everyone’s true master really is.
That’s a silver lining in a way, isn’t it?
I for one am glad that in the secular sphere we are finally seeing how demonic the Republicat duopoly is. It makes things much easier; more clarity.
Dear Illumined,
To be clear, “SJW” is too broad of a term for “SJWs” to deserve criticism from a Christian POV. I fail to see much wrong with “Me Too” from a Christian POV. Have you heard the undercover recording of Harvey Weinstein pressuring a potential business partner into sexual favors? Biblical Christian social teachings meet the broad category of Social Justice. My sense is that “SJW” might mistakenly be a term of derision, but it should not be treated that way.
Bp. Dmitri of the Diocese of the South wrote in 2014:
On the opposite end, gay marriage, treatment of gay relations as normal and healthy, and now Abp. Elpidophoros’ Bousis baptism in Greece might also today be put in the category of “SJWs” by those who use this term derisively. Are gay relations actually healthy for those who perform them? When I attended a PCUSA school in the 90’s, a chaplain gave me a book by a gay Presbyterian pastor aligning homosexual relations with Biblical Christianity. The author went through the Gospels, arguing that they didn’t forbid these relations. But when it came to discussing Paul, the author took the position that Paul was simply wrong. A logical conclusion is that gay relations aren’t actually compatible with NT Christianity. It is hard to imagine the Jesus of the NT advocating or performing gay marriage. Jesus didn’t even directly perform his own baptisms, according to the Gospels, and he had a rather strict view about remarriage in Matthew’s Gospel.
My sense is that CP Bartholomew and Abp. Elpidophoros would prefer for what happened to the Episcopalian Church on this topic to happen to the Greek Church. Katherine Kerliadis, in her article complaining about the OCA’s statement against gay sexual relations, suggested that since GOARCH is “inhospitable… for converts” because of its “ethnic political” focus, and that this inhospitability creates a “firewall” against opposition to gay sexual relations. ( https://religiondispatches.org/unprecedented-anti-lgbtq-statement-by-orthodox-church-in-america-should-be-christian-nationalist-warning-sign-to-us-orthodoxy/ )
The Episcopalian Church is in the tradition of England’s Anglican “State Church”. Much of it is focused on ritual or what critics might call pageantry and being dedicated to English heritage. The Crown banned Catholicism and mandated that all English must belong to the Church of England. As a result, only a miniscule percent of English are Catholic today. In contrast, when it comes to theology, Anglicanism forms an extremely broad Protestant tent, from Low Church ritual and Calvinists on one hand, to High Church ritual and the Oxford movement, as well as a “pro-Eastern Orthodox” faction.
To give an example of the theological confusion involved: When the Anglicans formulated their “Articles of Religion”, they demanded that one accept the Monarchy as one of their faith principles. When it came to the Eucharist however, clergy had competing ideas. The majority taught Cranmer’s Calvinist view on the topic. So the Crown set down a mandate that those who dissented and believed in a direct presence (like Lutherans taught) still had to sign the Articles. The end result is that the Articles of Religion are theologically confusing or contradictory on the Eucharistic presence.
Turning to the Greek Church, we find circumstances similar in some areas. Greeks in Greece must still identify over 90 percent as having Orthodox heritage. Like in England, the Greek Church has a history of being a state church. As a result, one can only suspect that it in practice it is going to form a vast, very wide tent of the range of adherents’ views. Plus, clearly, geopolitical relations play a major role in some aspects of the Greek Church and CP, as their relations with the OCU show. The Greek Church has a lot of focus on ritual, which is normal for Orthodoxy. In contrast to the Episcopalian Church however, Orthodoxy does have a rather set and better defined theology. And unlike the Anglican Church, Orthodoxy was not artificially created as a State Church. The Orthodox Church would still exist even without Constantine arranging the Nicene Council.
Average GOARCH parishioners probably give a lot of deference to their leaders like CP Bartholomew and Abp. Elpidophoros. Something like Abp. Elpidophoros’ baptizing in Greece are not going to may the Sunday bulletins or be something that most GOARCH parishioners are going to talk about. The same must be true about the CP’s relations with the OCU. If they talk about the CP’s supposed role over all EOs, they might claim it, but not make a big deal out of it like RCs do. Probably the way that the Greek Church would change its stance on gay relations would be something from the top down, with Abp. Elpidophoros and GOARCH clergy doing more of these events, with GOARCH parishioners continuing not to care much or eventually slowly growing in approval.
I like a little “pageantry” but then I grew up with it. As a former Anglican (this is in the old days), it sure did make coming into the Orthodox Church a little easier, later.
Given the direction of the Episcopal Church, and now the Methodists, I’m not sure “the Orthodox Church would still exist without Constantine arranging the Nicene Council”.
When Constantine locked the door and said, “Work it out,” he knew what he was doing. Gathering all those bishops together became the template for the Orthodox Church. No other church is as conciliar or synodal or will take the time to fight it out to come to an agreement the way we do. It’s not always pleasant but it keeps us on the same page (so the theory goes).
And in no other Church are people “picky, picky, picky” about Scripture and the teachings of the Church. We like to talk about it. We like to write about it. We like to complain about it if it’s not being followed to the Nth degree, and we like trying to live it to the best of our ability. Talk about being ENGAGED! We don’t just go to Church and have BBQs on Sunday (well, we do have BBQs, but you know what I mean).
The point is it takes work to be Orthodox and we have to deal with CONSTANT failure because we all fall so short of the mark. We don’t have time to make anyone else feel “comfortable.” Keeping up with the culture is definitely not on our agenda (unless you’re that singing – no wait- comedic nun) given all the work we have to do on ourselves.
So, you come, you come. You don’t, you don’t. We’ll welcome you if you do. But we won’t change the Church for you. Not now. Not ever. Many of us worked too hard to get here and others, like my dear husband, wouldn’t know what to do with themselves if they had to drop all those little pieties that have become so much a part of their DNA. (I wouldn’t miss the holes in my carpet from the incense burner, however. Just saying. . .)
I wanted what people like my husband had when I came into the Church. I wanted to know God outside of myself so I could be sure I wasn’t making anything up.
I remember the last day of my Evangelical quest, right before I was Orthodox bound. (This was after the Episcopal journey of my youth that ended with the advent of women priests.) The pastor at Calvery Chapel created a whole sermon around how Eve hated being a woman. I had never heard that. I looked it up in the Bible and I couldn’t find anything to that effect so I asked him, “Where does it say Eve hated being a woman?” He said, “Oh, it’s my interpretation based on the Holy Spirit and what I know about women.”
Huh??? I didn’t come to church to hear anyone’s “interpretation” and I’m not sure this particular man had much experience with women, including his wife.
So, the search began again in earnest until I reconnected with an old, kind of/sort of, boyfriend who was our HS basketball star. This was decades later and I learned that he went to Oral Roberts, and from there to a monastery, instead of to the University of Hawaii where he had a scholarship, don’t cha you know.
Boy, had he changed. I remember wondering if he had gone to prison and become a born-again Christian or something. All he wanted to talk about was God but it was at a much deeper level than I was used to.
“Where does it say believers will be raptured so they’ll miss the tribulation? Do you know what penal substitution is?”
15 years of Bible study down the drain. I had no answers. He gave me books and set me up with a local priest, as he lived in another state.
He then gave me a book by Father John Whiteford entitled Sola Scriptura. https://www.amazon.com/Sola-Scriptura-Orthodox-Cornerstone-Reformation/dp/1888212047
That was it for me. No more interpretations. Like Sgt Joe Friday on Dragnet, “I wanted the facts, Ma’am. Just the facts.” And the fact is this: if it was the Holy Spirit telling that pastor that Eve hated being a woman, He would have been telling everyone else the same thing. He wasn’t.
* * *
So, getting back to the Kerliadis‘ of the world. . .
WE DON’T WANT TO BE CULTURE FRIENDLY! (Sorry, I’m yelling, but it’s really so simple.) Nor could we change the Church if we wanted to. The Church isn’t ours to change. Nor is it theirs to change.
The Church is not about making anyone feel comfortable. In fact, it’s just the opposite. Everyone has to sweat it out with all the other sinners and these particular people don’t like to “sweat.”
“You’re making me so uncomfortable. Why can’t you just agree with me? I shouldn’t have to change. You’re being mean. God would want you to be nice to me.”
What they’re loathed to admit is they don’t know what God would want because they’re not open to hearing it.
So, this is my response to the Kerliadis‘:
“Everyone was created in the image of God, including you, dear one. He loves you, OK? If you don’t want to make the adjustments in your life to grow closer to Him, that’s up to you. You can come and just enjoy the Liturgy with us if you’d like. The Orthodox Church is not here to force you to change for us but neither should you (speaking to the “Kerliadis'” of the world, again) force us to change for you.”
We’re not going to change the Church. Not now. Not ever.
P.S. Please forgive me, (real) Katherine. This wasn’t about you. I’m sure you’re a lovely person.
“…if it was the Holy Spirit telling that paster
that Eve hated being a woman, He would have been
telling everyone else the same thing.”
Paster? Cut-and-paster? 🙂
I’m only close to being perfect! 😉
A modernisation too far…?
‘Drag queen at church?’: NYC private school holds
mandatory drag show in chapel | August 04, 2022
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nyc-private-school-mandatory-drag-show-chapel
‘ Students at Manhattan’s Grace Church High School are speaking out
after they were forced to attend the school’s Pride chapel last spring.
On April 27, the private high school held its sixth Pride chapel,
featuring drag queen guest Jesse Havea, also known as Brita Filter. …
“I literally went to church to teach the children today,”
Havea wrote in the video’s caption.
“A Catholic High School here in NYC invited me to their Pride Chapel.
Visibility matters and I’m so honored to have had the chance
to talk to you about my work as a LGBTQ+ Drag Queen Activist.”
Another video clip posted to Instagram showed Havea
singing “Wizard of Oz” while dancing as students watched.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc5isjMlZ7Z/?hl=en ‘
“Visibility matters”. Indeed it does, Which is why
this trash is brayed before the people’s very eyes
until all have been truly, thoroughly, modernised…
Thanks for sharing.
You wrote:
Let me eplain better what I meant. Henry VIII founded the Anglican Church on the principle that the secular monarch is the head of the Church, not the Pope, Patriarch, or Synod. The English State created the Church of England and instituted the Articles of Religion as its founding document, and in a sense its constitution. So when an issue comes up like relations, the Eucharist, anti-Catholicism, Monarchy as an ideology, or the status of American Anglicans after the American Revolution, and the state has a position (or lack thereof), this kind of secular monarch ecclesiasticism has a major influence on the Church of England. Numerous English Christians like St. Thomas More got killed for refusing on religious grounds to go along with English monarchs’ religious policies.
I’ve been told that when the Americans declared independence, since England was in conflict with the US, England did not send new bishops for the Anglicans in America, and this led to John Wesley’s mission and the creation of the Methodist Church as a separate institution from the Episcopalians. Currently there are more Methodists in America and their jurisdictions remain separate, even though it seems to me that they share very much in terms of history, theology, and ecclesiology.
Then I contrasted this with the Orthodox Church. Constantine played a powerful practical role in the Church, and a key role in arranging for the Nicene Council, and Nicea served as a template for future Ecumenical Councils. But Constantine did not create or found the Orthodox Church. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but Constantine in the 4th century and President Erdogan today have not been the head of the Orthodox Church. Theologically, Orthodoxy counters the Anglican and RC king vs. Papal headship debate by saying that Christ is the head of the Church.
I raised this topic because I was trying to see how some things that happened in the Episcopalian and Anglican churches might happen in the Orthodox Church. The intertwining of the CP with elite Western Geopolitics seems one of its weak points in this area. If Western elites want Environmentalism, and then CP Bartholomew picked up his little Evergreen trees to hand out, I think that it’s pretty nice. But when it comes to many decisions since October 2018, he has not always given the Church a heads up first or fully explained his decisionmaking. He didn’t say something like “I approve of Abp. Elpidophoros’ Bousis Baptismal event because figures from the organizations called ______ met with me and because ______.”
I see where you’re going but Constantinople is not the head of the Orthodox Church (OC); it is part of the OC.
They had a unique role at a given point in time but that role no longer exists. They live in the past with metropolitans over places that don’t exist and, comparatively, very few Christians.
If the Church were to elect a head, it would be a whole Church (like Russia, for example) that represents a greater number of Orthodox Christians.
It would be wonderful to have a monarch like the Tsar but even the Tsar did not head the Church. The Tsar protected the Church in much the same way Putin protects the Church.
Many refer to Putin as a “placeholder” for a future Tsar but a Tsar doesn’t replace Christ as the head.
It is the Church that crowns leaders; not the other way around.
We are not organized like any other church so in my mind it is unlikely we’ll go the way of the Methodists, or the Anglicans.
As you know, we have a powerhouse of left-wing activists in our midsts but they can’t really do anything except pull away and start a faux church. It happens all the time for different reasons. It happens so often there was a crusty curmudgeon of a guy named Al Green who went to the trouble of documenting every false Orthodox church in America so new people would not be confused.
The reason the OC is so strong is because its people are married to ideas that are both theologically and ecclesiastically sound. That’s the very meaning of being Orthodox. As long as there are people (or even one like Mark of Ephesus) who remain faithful to the tenets of our faith, the Church will stand.
People can leave the OC, but they can’t change the OC.
With respect to Bartholomew, he’s like a little kid in a sandbox who doesn’t play well with others. He will probably continue to isolate himself in his imaginary world, surrounding himself with people who have less in common with the Church than they do with the outside world. He operates as a mini dictator in a mini faux church in his mind. He is not long for this world.
Nothing is really “long for this world.” At any moment Constantinople could be leveled by an earthquake or kicked out by Erdogan. The moment they relocate to another physical location, the “Ecumenical Patriarch” thing is over.
But it doesn’t matter. The Church will continue to exist and work around Bartholomew until he is replaced with a bishop more in touch with reality.
Bartholomew is just one hierarch. He’s not THE hierarch.
Very well said, Gail!
Thank you!
Yeah Moscow will never be the Ecumenical Patriarch. That’s a non-starter. Give it to Jerusalem and be done with it.
Antioch might have a problem with that.
Peter, sorry to have to contradict you,
but canon 28 (4th) and the exegesis by St Nicodemos say otherwise. The bishop of C. was THEN correctly ecumenical, but not in 2022: C. is neither the capital of the Oikoumene (the known housed=inhabited land) and C. does not have the residence of the king of the oikoumene. If there has to be an Ecumenical city and bishop now, the closest to Canon 28 would be M. [Editor Note: M as in Moscow.]
Better yet, just get rid of the silly title “Ecumenical.” I agree with Peter, just call them all “Patriarch of X” and be done with it.
Jerusalem is the true Mother Church. It’s in the Bible.
I agree. Rotate it or get rid of it.
In reality we need to realize these titles whether ecumenical, whether patriarch, whether catholicos, whether “sword of the universe”, whether metropolitan or archbishop or are ALL political titles and descriptions. The church only has a dogmatic rank of bishop and all are equal. Yes much has been written about rank of importance and prestige and then God sends saints like St. Nectarios to humble them all
Well put, Kosta, et al! Enough with the strutting peacocks in their clerical finery! They are all just bishops, and all bishops are equal to the all other bishops. Isn’t humility the cardinal virtue of the Orthodox? Well then, let’s see a true display of humility amongst them. Let the greatest of them serve the least, and he who is of lowest rank be honored by all. The saintly character of the reposed Metropolitan Hilarion of ROCOR comes to mind as the most recent example of this humbleness of spirit.
Let the primates of the local Churches put their heads together and assemble a worldwide council of all bishops to decide these most pressing matters. If the Anglican Communion can hold their Lambeth Conference of bishops every decade, then certainly the Orthodox can do the same.
Orthodoxy is in CRISIS ! Time is of the essence. We need our bishops to come together in one place, be of one mind, and solve some of these problems as soon as is practicable. The first item on their agenda can be the diptychs. Down with the notion of an “Ecumenical Patriarch”! If it is necessary, let there be a “presiding bishop” who is elected by the primates and let him serve for one term only. Then let a successor be elected when his term is up and so on.
No bishop elected to this office should be allowed to let the honor of the presidency go to his head. Our Church polity is conciliar at its core. We eschew any bishop’s claim to an Eastern papacy.
FWIW:
All the Canons etc, in
The Pedalion (Rudder) in Greek, free download:
https://ia903402.us.archive.org/10/items/pedalion_202104/Pēdalion.pdf
In English:
https://pdfcoffee.com/qdownload/the-rudder-2-pdf-free.html
“Ecumenical Patriarchate” is an empty title at this point. And rank in the diptychs, as has been pointed out, was based on imperial gravitas. “Ecumenical Patriarchate” was not even synonymous with first among equals when first introduced inasmuch as Rome was still Orthodox at that point.
Here’s the truth: Due to the fact that it is the largest Orthodox local church, its ability to assist other sees and the military status of its nation, the Russian Orthodox Church, de facto, leads the rest of the Church to the extent that that function is necessary today. It is the sine qua non. But it is a de facto presidency of love, not power. The ROC is perfectly content, insofar as I am privy to discussions, to allow Antioch or Jerusalem to preside officially at gatherings. Indeed, were Constantinople to repent, the ROC has been and would be happy to allow C’pole to preside.
The ostensible power need not be the real power. Real power can afford humility.
The Greek Church abroad is just as large and much more wealthy and powerful. Sorry Misha the Russians are not that big or powerful. Plus big and powetful.is not Christian. So give the title to Jerusalem where is belongs IMHO and be done with it. Next!
The smaller your own world the bigger you think it is and the smaller the rest of the world looks in comparison. It also explains why some of you (not you, of course) are so damn mean to people that aren’t Greek. Mean might not be the right word, exactly. Rude is a better word; lacking empathy for anyone who operates outside of your own little click.
Personally, Gail, I think that that unfortunate stereotype is dying out.
Peter (and other pious Greek-Americans like him) have caught the wave of authentic Orthodoxy, one which will leave the GOA behind. In due time, we’ll look upon the GOA, its Masonic founding and its worldly Archon/L100 leadership class as an historical anomaly.
FWIW, Peter is a levendi (literally a gentleman but in Greek idiom a “stand-up kinda guy”.)
A stereotype is an oversimplified conception, opinion, or image, which this is not; and until you’ve been on the receiving end, it’s easy to dismiss.
You’re Greek, my dear. You’ve never been on the receiving end but you have stood by and watched.
I actually want just a plain but strong Orthodox Church and want to avoid all, and I mean ALL, governmental controls and ethnic games with God’s Church. That’s why I do not play either the EP’s games (NATO) or the MP games (RF). That’s what I am getting at IMHO.
As for Greek and Russian Chauvinism yes I agree there is no place for it in Christ’s church.
Peter
Thank you, Peter. I completely agree.
Still, there’s a lot to be justifiably proud of. I like to think that my inspiration comes from the historic reality rather than the debased form that is exemplified by elements of the GOA.
A wise Lebanese priest once told me that there’s an old Arab saying: “A man who rejects his heritage rejects himself.” That’s another way of upholding the Fifth Commandment.
At the end of the day, a man should embrace the positive aspects of his identity. I have and will continue to do so until I die.
I didn’t know you were Lebanese! –
The historic reality is that race doesn’t matter in the Church, George. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for we are all one in Jesus Christ.”
Be proud of that. Take your inspiration from the Church.
I’m not. But if I were, I’d be justifiably proud of that as well\ 😉 . I love –and because of that–am grateful to this country as well. And yes, proud of this nation’s accomplishments (in a Christian sense, not an arrogant lowest-common-denominator Greekist sense).
However, you are more correct: “There is neither Greek nor Jew, slave nor free, male nor female in Christ Jesus.”
I’m going with both of you: humility, repentance and love are what is called for.
Give it to Jerusalem. And no more “ecumenical.” In the present age, it’s beyond arrogant, almost blasphemous.
I agree.
Peter
“The Greek Church abroad is just as large and much more wealthy and powerful. Sorry Misha the Russians are not that big or powerful. Plus big and powerful is not Christian.”
Simply going by the data alone, about 65-70% of the world’s Orthodox Christians are in the Patriarchate of Moscow. I’m not making this up. So yes, Misha is absolutely correct, the Russian Church far surpasses in size the Greek Orthodox Church.
Those of us who grew up in the West during the 20th century have a very distorted view of worldwide Orthodox Christianity because:
(a) The Greek Orthodox Church in America is far wealthier than other Orthodox Churches in the West, thus most Westerners naively assume that it is “the biggest”
(b) During the 20th century when, to most Westerners, Russian = Soviet = bad, the Russian Orthodox in the West were very shy/demure and didn’t want to talk about being Russian. Stories abound of those of us who grew up in Pennsylvania and other Russian emigre regions of kids of Russian emigres being beat up in school for being “commies.” (Yeah, most learned to fight back well, so there.) Even the Metropolia/OCA made its identity about being “Orthodox, not Russian,” even though through the end of the 1900s the vast majority of OCA members came from that Rusyn/Carpatho-Russian core, who always considered themselves to be “Russian Orthodox.”
(c) Propaganda in the anti-Soviet West did a lot to build up the Greek Orthodox Churches as a counterweight to the Church of Russia. Was this appropriate? I don’t know. But most of us who grew up in the West were incorrectly taught that the Russian Church in Russia during the 20th century was all commie collaborators. This was a blatant lie. Some were, but many Russian Christians during the Soviet period lived under such terror and hardships that westerners cannot even fathom.
To this day, the population of Greece, noble history though it has, is about 11 million. The Greek emigre population adds another couple of million. The population of Russia is about 150 million, and if you add up all of the dioceses of the Russian Church, you’re getting to a population of around 200 million. Sure, not all are observant Orthodox Christians.
But the numbers clearly indicate, as Misha stated, that the Russian church is far larger and more influential than the Greek Churches. Those of us living in America are often deluded by what is presented on a public level in American public life.
And getting to the issue of sainthood — which is the purpose of the Church, to produce saints — there are dozens of canonized saints that grew out of the Russian Orthodox Church emigration following the Bolshevik catastrophe 100 years go. In America we know of many of them. Thank God for them, they give us clear proof and moral strength that wisdom, love, courage, and honor can grow out of earthly disaster.
Not that it’s a contest, but I am not aware of any canonized saints that came out of the Greek Orthodox Churches in the “diaspora” ( N&S America, Europe, Australia, etc.) over the last 100 years. Can someone please let me know if there are any?
George is absolutely right that pious Greek-Americans “have caught the wave of authentic Orthodoxy, one which will leave the GOA behind.”
FWIW, I just saw a teaser on the Orthochristian.com website from St Antony’s about an upcoming 5 volume set of the life and legacy of Elder Efraim of Arizona. (I’ll try to hyperlink it here.)
In some of the film footage, I saw the monkpriests wearing the so-called Russian-style phelonia. Here it is: https://youtu.be/fGon5QfZaZM
Some of the OCA parishes have received threatening phone calls or have been vandalized. People perceive them as being Russian, although many are like my parish. The church I serve started as a Greek Catholic church. It was founded by Rusyns and Slovaks. In fact most OCA parishes in the area were founded by people of a similar background or by Russophile Western Ukrainians who also left the Uniate church. Although Tsarist Russia did finance some of these churches, virtually none were founded by people who actually came from Russia.
Father,
Yes, exactly – and this concept that the vast majority of the OCA was not founded by “Russians” is confusing for many, including for many Orthodox Christians.
It its history/heritage, the OCA bears many more similarities to the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, which is now under the Patr of C’ple. (I pray so much that ACROD will leave the lunatics who currently run the C’ple jurisdiction!)
It is true, though, that while they were not Russian, most western Ukrainians/Lemkos/Carpatho-Rusyns who were Orthodox did indeed consider themselves to be “Russian Orthodox.” This adds to the confusion.
St Maxim Sandovich is an example – an incredible figure and a recent Orthodox martyr. He was not a Russian, but a thoroughly Orthodox Christian man who was considered “Russian Orthodox.”
https://orthodoxwiki.org/Maxim_Sandovich
(The same is also true for me! I’m not Russian, but I definitely identify as an Orthodox Christian in the Russian Orthodox Church – so I guess I’m “Russian Orthodox,” American style! Talk about confusing for “woke” Americans!)
Probably the closest analogy would be to call someone “Roman Catholic” — that moniker includes thousands of ethnicities, from Italian to Brazilian to Filipino to Indian. Same with the term “Russian Orthodox.” Confusing.
And many Arab and Romanian and even Albanian Orthodox call themselves “Greek Orthodox”. Old OCA churches say “Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic” and the N Y Times called the the “Russo-Greek Church” a century ago when no one used the term Orthodox. OCA is really Orthodox Christians from the former Austro Hungarian Empie.
The American Midwest is populated by Central European refugees from the Russian crackdown against 1848 freedom fighters. Remember Lawrence Welk, he was born speaking German in Dakota, where many Germans fled from Russia. St Louis was full of refugees from Russian 1848 oppression when Mark Twain was there. These 1848 refugees offset the USA balance against slavery and in favor of labor unions, and at the same time, the states bordering Russia became more rightward, granting Russia poetic justice. Ignore the agitprop about the Russian ships in defense of the Union and read how much Lincoln disdained Russian oppression. The genocide of Greeks, Armenians and Jews were perpetuated because these groups were seen as Russophiles.
Zelton Carander “many Arab and Romanian and even Albanian Orthodox call themselves “Greek Orthodox”. Old OCA churches say “Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic” and the N Y Times called”
USA / West is a marginal part of the Orthodox world. Nobody in Russia or Greece call themselves that way. They call themselves православные or ορθόδοξος, what means the same – Orthodox.
??♂️
Just when you think these losers can’t outdo themselves, they do.
It seems they greatly overestimated the extent to which Greek society, and the Orthodox Church, would accept this and did not expect the nuclear pushback.
Elpi, Ieronimos, Bart, et al., all need to be deposed. If not by their respective Synods then by a pan-Orthodox tribunal. Remember the Church of Greece has a permanent synod (of a few bishops) and the entire synod of bishops of the Church.
The more this news comes to light and enrages the faithful, the better. I guarantee there will be no more gay baptisms anytime soon (though like I said before, these fools are full of surprises).
The only thing that all these actions and behavior do is HASTEN the coming of our LORD.
Im sorry. I simply dont buy the “non est mea culpa” of Metropolitan Antonios. When you are going somewhere to do something bad, you dont go to a place that you cant trust. From what I read, Met. Antonios and Archbishop Iernonymos are very close. So its pretty obvious that Antonios would at least know what Abp. Iernonymos’ leanings are.
My head-canon goes like this. Abp. Elpidophoros contacts Abp Iernonymos and asks for a “safe” place to do this baptism. Iernonymos in turn asks Antonios and says “there’s going to be heat for this, but there is some serious money changing hands, so just say you knew nothing about it, the synod will get mad but 6 months from now, everything will die down and Ill make sure that you are compensated for the inconvenience”. Antonios agrees and away we go.
This entire thing makes remember how mob families of different territories used to handle “business” together.
As a Catholic I love the Orthodox, pray for future reunion (once our side gets its act together), and have some good friends among them. However I know many devout Catholics who – despairing at the liturgical destruction in our Churches being forwarded by the entrenched lavenderites – have jumped ship for Orthodoxy. I fear that the lavenderite infiltration is also underway among the Orthodox, and my brothers there are about to get their own taste of the civil war.
As a Roman Catholic convert to Orthodoxy of several years now I can say with a good amount of confidence that the level that the lavender mafia has infiltrated Orthodoxy is nowhere remotely close to the level it has in Catholicism, which is a systemic problem from the top down.
You may have incidences here and there (mostly within one particular patriarchate) but it’s not prevalent. I’m not saying Orthodoxy doesn’t have its own set of issues but a pandemic of “lavendarism” that Roman Catholicism has is not one of them. The massive uproar that this “baptism” has caused, especially in the Greek speaking Churches, shows this.
Side topic – Seems that the Serbian Church was able to intervene before any possible shenanigans from Bartholomew in Montenegro.
https://orthochristian.com/147555.html
Kim Philby spawned the Oxbridge Orthodox under Tim Ware taught Savas Zombilas. The Srebrenica genocide was directed by Greek KYP agents Spyrus Djanopoulos, Dimitrus Zavitsanos, and Haralabus Dimulas. In 1182 Greeks massacred sixty thousand Istanbul Catholics, selling the remainder to their Turkish sultan. In 1342 Palamite Zealotes massacred Thessalonian aristocracy in a communist coup with the Serbs in preparation for Cantacuzene usurpation via hesychast hyperventilatory hallucination. On Jan 1 1920 US Adm Mark Bristol judged the Greeks with the initial provocative August 18 1919 genocide of Smyrna cabled to the NY Times on Nov 26 (NYT Jan 3 1920 pg 10, Aug 19, 1919 pg 18). That is why the Greeks made Cosmus Aitrellus their patron of genocide. Soviet Seleucid Jean Bouchedior wrote “The rich are in possession of the goods of the poor, even if they have acquired them honestly” (Lazarus 11). The Theodosian Code promoted confiscatory taxation and promoted Diocletian socialist feudalism (Rostovtzeff 1926, Gibbon ch. 13) that Toynbee (1939, IV p. 399) said caused Anatolia to apostase into Turkishness. Gun control hails back to Justinian’s Novella 85. See “Is Orthodox Christianity progressive?” By Michelle Boorstein Washington Post November 4, 2009
Utter nonsense and Orwellian distortions of history! What is your point, Mr. Carasakis?
Much mud, little straw, no bricks…
George Carasakis’ paragraph above is apparently from a parody website titled “GOAT REFORM” (https://sites.google.com/site/goatrfm/). I wonder if “Goat” might be a Masonic reference”. The webpage has a set of links to anti-Orthodox websites like “Quitodox”.
Right. CP Bartholomew has been an ongoing source of abrasive surprises since mid-late 2018, the sudden attempted dissolution of the AROCWE archdiocese and Abp. Elpidophoros’ baptism event being two examples.
One aympathetic theory goes that CP Bartholomew acts this way because he is geopolitically stuck. His HQ is in Istanbul under Turkish rule. The CP has been persecuted in the past, and certainly undergoes some discrimination even currently. So he relies on the US and EU as political allies, and they give him instructions on issues like the OCU. He himself said that a governmental request (it might have been the Ukr. government’s – I don’t remember which one he said) prompted his decision. He had been in consultations with a Western government before his decision on the OCU.
But look at how the Hagia Sophia got turned into a mosque after 2018, and the CP treated this event as a big tragic scandal. His series of decisions that began in 2018 haven’t protected his community in Turkey. But nor has this scandal impacted on him to make him try to reconcile with Russia. So another theory could be that these decisions are ones that he himself wants to make, rather than them being forced onto him.
Another indication of the “furious finger-pointing” going on to deflect blame onto Elpidophoros: http://byztex.blogspot.com/2022/07/opinions-of-influential-archon-of.html
As much as I abhor homosexuality, I appreciate that having them marry is better than having them promiscuous. And homosexuality is a product of alcohol and drugs leading to abuse which in turn leads to perversion and criminality. Do we forget how the arrest of Dr Ouzocodone Lambrakis exposed the bankruptcy of GOA? The biggest anti-pew, anti-choir, pro-monastery blowhards in church have glossy Lambrax eyes and go home and beat their families. Not just amongst Orthodox, but amongst blacks and Irish, too. All those holy roller ladies are in church to escape their abusive husbands who don’t let them learn English, driving or computers. Do you forget the gay cauldron at Holy Protection OCA Cathedral in the 1980s, Benedict de Socio, Gregory Dudak, Stephen Morris under Paul L’Huillier. The pillsbury dough boy at ROCOR Lasy of Sign who maintains a brothel of young lads, numerous GOA priests (Eugene Pappas) and bishops (Athenagoras Aneste) now returned who were exiled because of their homosexuality. Let him without sin cast the first stone.
Amidst all the hypocrisy, all the bloodlust for vengeance, and all the desire of the Pharasees to discredit Christ there is one thing upon which all the parties to the story of the woman taken in adultery agreed. And that is that the woman had sinned. Not she alone, of course, but she had sinned notwithstanding.
“Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more.”
Grace, yes. Compassion, yes. Salvific, yes. But no attempt whatsoever to contradict, confuse, or obfuscate the commandments of God.
I am afraid you’re deluded if you think that “gay” people are less promiscuous after they marry. Promiscuity is so intrinsic to the “gay” lifestyle that nothing, not marriage or even the chance of contracting a deadly disease, quells their desires. Gay marriage is a lie and a perversion of the holy sacrament of marriage.
“Let him without sin cast the first stone.”
Would that be you, then?
“Not just amongst Orthodox, but amongst blacks and Irish, too.”
I know some black and Irish Orthodox who would wonder greatly at your choice of words.
He’s right. Gay marriage happened because there was an explosive undercurrent of young people from superficially respectable abusive families who turned out gay. All of a sudden there were too many to hide. Everybody knew one of them. Socarides said homosexuality comes from abuse. Look at de Blasio’s formerly lesbian wife. Gay marriage and abortion are horrible, but they are the result of a much more horrible trend of social disintegration. And yes, all factions of our church all churches and all parties are filled with the abusers and their victims, too many to hide.
Louis,
This is an important point you make. That message has to get out there, especially to our Priests. It’s a consequence of how far we have fallen as we approach the end times. Homosexual abuse, especially to the young, belongs to Satan’s rites, and we are naive not to understand how widespread this is – especially among the powerful. We cannot be afraid to point it out. It is so awful, it is hard to contemplate – but here we are. May GOD have mercy on us.
https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2022/08/07/sheriff-georgia-couple-arrested-for-allegedly-using-their-adopted-children-to-produce-child-pornography/
This is the point of gay adoption. The gift that keeps on giving. The child victims grow up to be perps. It’s how homosexuals reproduce.
And yet, this is something that most normal (i.e. non-perverted) people have intuited for, I dunno, thousands of years. Is this always true, 100% of the time? No, don’t be ridiculous. Yet it is true enough many of the time. Perhaps most of the time.
Unfortunately, we are paralyzed with fear in stating the obvious.
Case in point: I read in one of Princess Di’s biographies that she screamed holy hell at Prince Charles when he expected his sons to be raised by the male staff at Buckingham Palace. Di went absolutely ballistic and put her foot down, winning the day. Was she’s a “homophobe”? Yes –and no. She had a great friendship with Elton John. But would she let him babysit her sons?
You get the picture.
Great, now they’re going to hang “Joe Bidenopoulos” around the necks of us Greek-Americans:
https://www.helleniscope.com/2022/08/07/the-greek-american-democrat-elites-the-e-mail-that-ties-them-all-with-hunter-and-joe-biden/
For additional yuks, Alex Christophorou calls Biden “Greece’s favorite son.”
According to the diptychs Jerusalem is the obvious choice but isn’t using the order of names as a vehicle for determining who is in the best position to represent the Orthodox world less compelling than Canon 28? I’m with Ioannes on this one. (Actually, on most everything.)
Jerusalem is small and they have a lot going on just trying to “keep on keeping on”. The same is true for Antioch for different reasons. They are in DIRE need of help just to survive, which, BTW, Russia can and is providing.
IMO, if you’ve never been to Russia, you can’t possibly appreciate the degree to which they promote and protect the Church. They may do everything else wrong, but why not let them do what they do best?
As a country, we blame them for doing that which is in their self-interest, which every country and every leader does and will continue to do.
Although, if our convoy of truckers and the Dutch with their tractors were running for “rulers of the world”, I’d vote for them in a heartbeat. Just saying. . .
There are so many amazing people in the world today. I remember when Bush went into Iraq . . . crickets. No one out in the streets. Do you know what came out of that when no one was looking? The Patriot Act and that stupid regulation about Sudafed which was immediately replaced by Vicks Vapor rub.
I am so proud of the UK for its commitment to keeping accurate, accessible stats in the fight against the UN, the WHO, Pfizer, Moderna, J & J, Asta Zenica, Fauci, Gates, and other NWO order nut cases. The damage these people have done is incalculable and though I am an extremely non-violent person, I would personally love to “vaccinate” the hell out of each and every one of them, boosters and all. They’re not fooling anyone with those saline injections.
I am amazed by the number of Boomers who are spending their golden years working harder than they ever thought possible to preserve the America we grew up in, ensuring our constitution is intact for our children and our children’s children.
And God bless our tech-savvy generation for showing us how to be digital warriors putting to shame the MSM.
And God bless our young parents who have backed off the feckless school boards to protect our country’s children, ensuring future generations are protected from this BS, too.
And God bless our healthcare workers and our military, who have put their careers on the line to do the right thing.
And God bless the people who are languishing in jail because they had the audacity to “trespass” at the urging of those who never DREAMED what they would unleash. It won’t be much longer before every single member of Congress who either supported it (putting them in jail) or were too weak to stop it, will have to pay for their mistakes.
And finally, God bless those who are fighting on our behalf; our true leaders in the military whose names we will probably never know. They have taken on WWIII, while allowing us to remain blissfully unaware, until that moment when they are free to show us what it took to protect us, and the rest of the world, in probably the biggest crisis the world has ever faced.
We know you’re out there. We know you had to do things you wished you’d never have to do to protect us and rescue children whose bodies and minds have suffered unspeakable crimes. We pray for you and for your families who have had to put their needs aside to let you do what had to be done. We are so incredibly grateful. We will NEVER forget your sacrifices.
Finally, God bless President Trump for being the fighter that he is and accepting his role because, frankly, he is the only one I can think of who could fulfill our specific requirements at this specific time. And God bless Melania, and his family, who probably wake up each morning worrying that it could be his last.
Trump recently said, “Do you think I’d ever leave you?” No. I never doubted his commitment in this regard and it’s the only reason I can sleep at night!
BTW, how stupid is the FBI? What is this? Like the 3rd time, they think he’s down for the count? His headquarters aren’t at Mar Lago. Someone mentions a “war room” (on purpose, because you 3 letter agencies are so stupid), and all of a sudden you’re invading his home. Do ya want me to look it up for you, buffoons (FBI)? I think he built the new “White House” in New Jersey a couple of years ago. Where ever it is, you’re not going to find it.
I converted my whole family into the Greek Orthodox Church. I went to St. John the Baptist Greek Orthodox Church in Euless, Texas.
My wife filed for divorce and began to transition my three-year-old son to a girl. The church ladies witnessed my ex-wife forcing my son into a dress. He hid under the table. They refused to testify in my don’s behalf. The Archon at the church told them not to. The priest told them not to. The court didn’t believe me, because there were no witnesses. I lost custody. She has now transitioned him fully to a girl.
When my son was four-years-old, the priest allowed my ex-wife to put my son on the Greek Festival stage while he was cross-dressed as a girl. The whole church celebrated this. The demoniac parishioners openly laughed at my despair. The priest said, laughing in my face, “What can I do?” And turned back to his gluttonous lamb dinner.
I never returned to that church. I believe the Greek hierarchy are schismatic and demonic. I spit on the Greek church for what it did to my son. I hope it is destroyed in the hell fire of Sodom.
You had (and continue to have) a LOT of Orthodox support, Jeff. We have followed your story and to this day, when I am reminded of you and your son and I always stop and pray.
Frankly, I don’t understand the Greeks. I’ve been spit at, stared down (a curse), and ignored. Since I arrived in Tulsa in 2018, I have not been invited to a single, family event. When one of them was recovering from being in the hospital, I would have George bring her some food until my sister-in-law, pulled me aside, and said, “Gail, don’t bother. She won’t eat it. It just goes in the trash.”
I have been stalked, investigated, and threatened. I have had to endure gossip and flat-out lies about my reputation which our bishop was kind enough to unravel by announcing in front of our entire parish, including our priest, that we were to marry as soon as possible; if not in our own parish which George FOUNDED, in any parish we chose in his diocese.
We were married at St. Seraphim Cathedral in Dallaes because Bishop Gerasim was also in our corner, as was my former priest who publically gave his blessing for our marriage because that’s what “fathers” do when they love their children.
My other sister-law and her husband surprised us by being at our wedding, as did some people from our parish who made the journey because that’s the kind of people they are. As it turns out, there were some who knew us from the blog and they were there, as well. Even a man, who has probably donated tens of thousands of dollars to our Church and isn’t even Orthodox, was there. (He says it’s because my beef stroganoff is so good! It’s not THAT good. LOL)
The true people of God are humble like that and their capacity to love is bottomless and unceasing:
1 Corinthians 13:4-8. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, and it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
There are Greeks who are able to love like that. My father-in-law (may his memory be eternal) was one of them. As sick as he was, he never missed an opportunity to come to my home, usually with flowers in his hands. He loved me and he stood between me and them. When even just one person loves you like that, it’s enough to block out every wrong. His entire family is like that. They’re fighters for the good.
One of George’s cousins left a lucrative job over this vaccine nonsense and she had a daughter to support. I’m sure she was scared because she, like many of us, don’t have a lot to fall back on. What a legacy she gave that special young lady of hers: “My mom is a hero. She will fight for what’s right without question or pause.”
It’s not a surprise her daughter is just like her. She, too, is a gift to the world.
Your sons look at you like that. You fought for James and no doubt will continue to fight for him when so many other fathers might not see any of this as important.
I tell you this, not because you don’t know, but to remind you that God is present and is working in your son’s life.
James is special, Jeff, or you wouldn’t his father. I suspect he might have been chosen for this journey. God will protect and sustain him until he is old enough to find his own voice and what a testimony that will be! I’ll look forward to that joyous occasion.
Until then, be at peace. Don’t worry about the Greeks. We are your Church. We pray for you and both your sons and we thank you for having the courage to stand up for what’s right . . . for them and for us.
Absolutely horrible!
I hope and pray, Mr. Younger, that you will not give up your Orthodox faith and life, your horrible, inexcusable treatment by your local Greek Orthodox church and priest notwithstanding. In this great religious “salad bowl” that we have in America, there is always another traditional and hospitable Orthodox parish in another jurisdiction close enough for you to attend.
If you need assistance finding such a parish, please let me know directly at my primary email address:
chaplain.webster@gmail.com
May the Lord bless and strengthen you on your journey to the Kingdom.
Jeff, my whole ROCOR parish has been praying for you for the past two years. We have followed your story in the news and the nightmare your sons have endured. We can’t understand why you and your sons have been led to this trial, but I hope you know that you have unending numbers of brothers and sisters who love and pray for you. Stay strong!
Absolutely.
Lord, have mercy.
Jeff I am so terribly sorry to hear about this.
Im originally from the DFW area and have been to St. John’s a number of times. That’s very disturbing what you say about Fr. Vasili, that’s not something I ever pictured from him.
For those that don’t know of Fr. Vasili he is a GOARCH priest, however, he is an ethnic Romanian so he has no Greek “allegiance.” His wife is also a prominent Orthodox architect and his daughter has (or had) a podcast on AFR. So this behavior is very disturbing.
Jeff,
I e-mailed your priest last year when I heard about this awful case. Never got any reply.
Reasons like this (coupled with my own trauma/abuse experience in the GOA from 30-40 years ago) are reasons that I will never, ever set foot in another Greek Orthodox Church in America parish building without crossing myself and asking for Christ’s protection first. It is only by Christ’s grace that I stayed an Orthodox Christian.
The GOA is run by wolves in sheep’s clothing, who love money and earthly power more than Christ. Sorry, just sayin.’ That’s been my experience.
As a dad myself, I shed tears over your predicament. I pray that you are getting healthy therapy, counseling, and trauma recovery to help you through this trauma.
Make no mistakes about it, you and your family have been through severe trauma and abuse — emotional trauma/abuse, sexual abuse/trauma for what pathetic American public culture has done to your son, spiritual trauma/abuse at the hands of the GOA, etc etc. There are Christian therapists who specialize in trauma recovery who can help.
Prayers that the Mother of God covers you and your son with Her protection!!
On a totally other front, a meeting of world wide Anglican bishops held in Canterbury, called the Lambeth Conference has reaffirmed a resolution passed in 1998 that marriage is between a man and a woman. What the Episcopal organization in the USA will do will be interesting. See Virtueonline for more information.,
I find it so ironic that all the radical and extreme Republicans say Biden is so senile he can’t run the country but then blame him as the “Mastermind” for orchestrating a “raid” on Trump. So delusional for any Republican to believe what is written on this blog!
Treasonous Trump had it coming to him! He knew very well that classified documents were not to be destroyed but he tried flushing them down the toilet anyway! He knew that he couldn’t remove documents, which the National Archives suspects as containing classified information, but Trump did it anyway. A full 15 boxes worth of material. Trump signed the law that would extend the jail sentence of a government employee from serving time from one year per a document to 5 years!
But what this blog fails to acknowledge is that a Federal Judge had to have probable cause to sign off on the warrant! THIS WAS NOT A POLITICAL WEAPONIZATION of the DOJ like the Republicans are falsely claiming! Eric Trump said when Trump was in office he could order the FBI to raid who ever he wanted. Well, I guess Trump set the precedent if you want to look at who weaponized the DOJ. But what are you guys going to say when the DOJ actually presents the evidence of Trump’s wrong-doing? You will continue to make excuses and justify his criminal behavior! That is un-American!
“…what are you guys going to say when the DOJ
actually presents the evidence of Trump’s wrong-doing?”
First let us read the warrant that the judge signed;
and (of course) the affadavits that persuaded him to do so.
Here is a reward for his heresy and treason, and that talk how he would be booted by Phanar was nonsence.
On September 5, Archbishop Elpidophoros will travel to Chios, Greece, where he will be conferred an honorary doctorate by the University of the Aegean.
If the panslobs have used the phony tracts of Obolensky and Meyendorf against the Greeks, why can’t we use Plohy and Yermolenko against these Commitatzidas?
Zelton, regardless of Lincoln’s personal feelings towards the Russians, he was a canny politician. If he was sentimental (and he wasn’t) he would have told both Russian fleets to head back to St Petersburgh.
He did not. Why? Because he wasn’t a fool.
Had he done so, we’d be singing “Dixie” at sporting events in the CSA.
Didn’t anyone notice the attempt to pervert Christology in Chrysavgis’ “apology”, by equating gender to flesh in the one incarnate hypostasis of the Logos, in the Lord Jesus Christ? Where did this tautology come from? What did the Logos acquire from the Mother of God, “nature”, or the biblical equivalent, “flesh”, or just “gender”. What Ecumenical Council has ever used the term gender with an equal sign! to flesh?
Didn’t anyone notice that this cultural trend is a revival of ancient Manichaeism? The only difference is that, in the present culture, the term, “spirit”, has been substituted with the term, “identity”. The end result is identical: the distortion, abuse, and even mutilation of the body so that the “identity” can emerge and be released!
What we have in Chrysavgis’ apology is an admission of heresy.
Seriously, I’ve been toying with myself whether to answer Chryssavgis’ infantile screed. Gail & I are going back and forth whether it’s worth it, given that his logic is self-refuting. It may not be worth giving it any more oxygen.
It’d be like shooting fish in a barrel.
Then again, it might be worth hitting it out of the ballpark, sort of memorandum-for-the-record. At this point it might be necessary, not because we would convince him of the error of his ways (he’s a liberal, ain’t gonna happen), but because we need to instruct the normies out there. And show the world that Istanbul’s church is passe.
This video is the best! It is guidance to a man dealing with homosexual passion from our beloved St. Paisios:
https://youtu.be/iERpvjR_3dY
What a striking difference between the Saint’s directives re: the gay lifestyle, versus Elpi’s lukewarm, millstone-around-the-neck acceptance. Take heed, all who would adopt a message other than this one!
Something huge is happening on so many fronts. We’re going to have to choose and the strangest thing is we already have, Christine. This (whatever this is) has changed everything. I’ve never felt anything like this before. My dreams are disturbed and reordered. I feel like God is fighting back. The power He has is amazing. What a time to be alive.
Who is so great a God as our God?! Thou art the God who doeth wonders! Sister, may we be worthy of the breath and heartbeat He gives us! Honored to be in your company at the turning of worlds.
Me, too, Christine. Honored to be in your company.
I hope this will prevent the election of Archbishop Elpidophoros to the patriarchal throne once Patriarch Bartholomew is gone.
My kinda bishop: https://orthodoxtimes.com/bishop-of-the-serbian-church-against-lgbti-if-i-had-a-gun-i-would-use-it/