Before you think that I’m trying to be inflammatory, please know that this isn’t a topic I wanted to write about.
Not one bit. Why? “Because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” (Rom 3:23). That’s why. That means you, that means me, that also means the guy behind the tree.
As a rule, Christians recognize our own sinfulness and therefore we try not to throw stones.
However, there is a problem with this formula when it comes to the celebration of sexual sins. We’ve had our noses rubbed in hedonism for decades now. We would like to avert our gaze. If fact we are desperate to look the other way. Unfortunately, we don’t have that prerogative. To paraphrase Lenin, “You may not be interested in the Revolution comrade, but the Revolution is interested in you“.
Several years ago, I remember reading an alarming piece in OrthodoxNetwork Blog, entitled “Pushing the Gay Agenda in the Greek Archdiocese” which can be accessed here: Here
Still, it didn’t portend anything or so I thought. I viewed it as a critique of a homosexual subculture within the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, merely that, and nothing more. After all, the primates who constituted SCOBA had spoken resolutely about the growing homosexual juggernaut.
However, what a difference fourteen years makes. Now, it is more openly proclaimed and worse, the narrative has spread to the Ecumenical Patriarchate as a whole, and not merely the GOA.
Don’t believe me? Look at the picture above.
For those who don’t know, Patriarch Bartholomew just had an audience with Stephanos Kasselakis, the newly-elected leader of SYRIZA, the main opposition party in Greece. SYRIZA is the largest leftist party in Greece. Like all bigwigs within this movement, Kasselakis is an atheist. Why should he care what Bartholomew thinks? Worse, why does Bartholomew allow him an audience? Is he going to preach the Gospel to him and hope he mends his ways?
Doubtful.
Kasselakis is an open homosexual. One who wants to “marry” his partner, Tyler MacBeth. Unfortunately for Kasselakis, Greece doesn’t allow gay “marriage,” so he decided to come to America and get married in the Hamptons surrounded by all the swells. Here
So what does this picture of the meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew and Mr Kasselakis tell us?
For one thing, it tells us there is a lack of seriousness on Bartholomew’s part. For another, this is yet another example of latter’s desire to always be in the limelight, even if that means taking a photo with a second-tier celebrity. Kasselakis is not a head of state. In fact, there’s very little chance of him even being elected prime minister. I don’t say this because he’s a homosexual but because the Right is on the ascendant in Greece.
Generally speaking, this violates protocols. The Pope, as an example, only has photos taken with heads of state. So, this was nothing more than a photo-op for Bartholomew, someone whose never-ending desperation for attention is showcased on the international scene yet again. He is not too picky when it comes to getting his picture taken. (Notice that Kasselakis wasn’t wearing a tie.)
This is all rather cringy if you ask me. And as if that’s not bad enough, Bartholomew is telegraphing his acceptance of homosexuality. I’m sorry, but that’s the only way to read this.
Archbishop Elpidophoros is fully on board with the queering of the Orthodox Church, as well. How so? He invited Kasselakis and MacBeth to give a talk at St Demetrios High School in Astoria. Unfortunately for Elpidophoros, this caused a major scandal. According to our friends over at Helleniscope, parents burned the phone lines down at 79th St, demanding answers. Many even pulled their kids out of school for the entire day, others took them out at noon, right before Kasselakis was going to give his talk. Here
So, getting back to my point: most of us don’t care about what people do in their private lives. And even if we did, we couldn’t overturn Obergefell, the Supreme Court decision which legalized homosexual unions, no matter how hard we try. It’s over as far as the secular sphere is concerned. Water under the bridge and all that. On the other hand, Christians have a higher allegiance. Just because the world is OK with some awful happenstance, doesn’t mean that the Church should be OK with it. Quite the contrary.
Greek Orthodox Christians should be able to expect that their hierarchs, whatever their individual failings, are not going to bless that which is sinful.
For what it’s worth, it doesn’t appear that Bartholomew was at all fazed when he met with Kasselakis. The following is from an interview that The National Herald conducted with Kasselakis:
“TNH”: You are married to a man. Do you think the majority of the Greek people are ready to accept your type of marriage?
St. Kasselakis: Yes, they are.
“TNH”: There have been cases when some people, including hierarchs and priests, approached you and told you, Mr. Kasselakis, what are you doing?
St. Kasselakis: No, no one ever. The opposite. And at the meeting with His All Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch, I told him about my partner and he reacted normally, there were no qualms. I expressed my desire to go to the Phanar and the Patriarch said with great joy, on the Epiphany.
OK then.
That ship has sailed. What we can do, however, is prevent the further queering of the Orthodox Church. As other sites have noted, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese is partnering with their friends over at Fordham to address issues having to do with Rainbow Marxism. Here’s the advertisement for the symposium at Fordham which was put out by The Orthodox Observer, the official journalistic organ of the GOA: Here
I guess when all is said and done, it’s all coming up rainbows –er, I mean roses–as far as the GOA and the LGBTQ+ agenda is concerned.
That doesn’t mean that the rest of us have to take this lying down.
1 Corinthians 3:17
Verse Concepts
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Bartholomew grieves not for the dead Ukrainians and Russians or their families.
Bartholomew grieves not for destroying the canonical Ukrainian Orthodox Church.
The “ agency” must have a lot of dirt on Bartholomew because he has made the “agency” his idol and god.
Bartholomew bows to Satan and made a spiritual grave of the Greek Orthodox Church. Run! Run from Bartholomew and his minions!
This is exactly why I wrote that open letter. Hopefully it gets sent to every bishop on the AOB, even the Greeks.
What is unfortunate is that what Bart & Elpi are pushing in the GOA is not something the majority of clergy and laity of the GOA actually want. Having said that, I go to a parish in the GOA and have previously belonged to another GOA parish in another state. Two of the most solid parishes I’ve ever belonged to. Naturally I’ve asked those parish priests why they stay in the GOA, why they don’t speak up, etc. And partially I think it’s two things:
A) They don’t know what to do about the situation and don’t even know where to start
B) The parishes within the GOA are for a large part insular from their Metropolitan, and in turn the Metropolitans are pretty insular from the Archbishop. Because of this they have an attitude of “As long as its not in my diocese or parish.”
I could easily tell from the looks on their faces when I asked that question is that it is a major struggle for them as well, and I am not the only one who has asked. I know Monomakhos gets inside info from GOA clergy & laity as well.
Do I agree with this? No. I’m starting to think it’s going to be up to the bishops of the other jurisdictions to come to the aid of the GOA. If that’s what it takes I’m all for it.
We’ve seen by the backlash at St. Demetrio’s, and the backlash from Elpi’s Tour de Charter that when push comes to shove the GOA laity/clergy will push back.
There can also be a C: For one reason or another (e.g., not enough clergy to fill parishes) requests for releases to other jurisdictions are not being granted
Reason C) The “golden handcuffs”. Having sat on a GOA parish council, I know that their clergy are well-compensated. The priests don’t want to let go of the generous financial packages they and their families enjoy.
That’s true Fr. Peter, thanks for adding that.
Of the two GOA priests I know really well one of them has stated when he will leave the GOA and the reason is tied to the Elder Ephraim monasteries (union with Rome is the final straw for them). I’m not sure if either of them have officially tried to leave GOARCH yet.
I’d have to imagine there are more than a few GOA priests who would be willing to currently switch jurisdictions.
Fr. Peter, not to seem bleak but do you think there is any hope for the GOA? When will “enough is enough” finally come around? I’m struggling with that right now in deciding if I should stay or leave my parish.
I think there is hope, because there are many faithful people and because God works in mysterious ways. As for “enough is enough,” I don’t know. Obviously, I am in an in-between sort of place myself. I think, if I were in a good parish (a priest I trust, faithful parishioners), I would stay there for now – but that is just me, because I have come to appreciate the value of a good parish (not necessarily a financially successful one, but one with a significant n
proportion of faithful parishioners)
The Church moves slowly and there is good reason for it: schisms are hard to heal. For that reason, I am trying to be patient and keep an eye on how the other jurisdictions interact with / react to the GOA.
May God bless you and grant you discernment
That’s essentially where I’m at now. Until my priest or Met. Alexios starts openly preaching heresy or schism then I’ll probably stay.
What’s more concerning to me is that the various Metropolitans in the GOA refuse to speak up. I have a hard time believing that Met. Gerasimos or Met. Isaiah are on board with this (these are the only two I’ve got direct experience with).
You said you sat on the parish council Lawrence
You’ve generalized that GOA churches pay their priest generously. Are you comparing this to non-GOA or Episcopalians or others.
Please define would you consider generous
We haven’t given our priest, a raise in eight years
And our parishioners grumble, that they have to pay the health insurance and other ministry related expenses. Are you perhaps in a large cathedral?
Mary, I left that Greek parish when I could no longer stomach the heresies of the hierarchy and their utter capitulation to the rules of the so-called pandemic enforced by our lay leadership. I know that our parish followed and exceeded the metropolitan guidelines for clergy compensation, something that was necessary because we live in a section of the country where the cost of living is particularly high. This parish is called a cathedral, but there is no bishop in residence, and it is relatively small. They own the high-rise apartment building adjacent to the temple and one parishioner provides a house in a suburb as a parsonage for the priest. The priest’s total financial package of stipend and allowances provides a living for him and his family that is comfortable, although not opulent. My experience of GOA parochial administration is limited to that one parish, and though I have visited other GOA parishes and monasteries, I know little of their financial statuses.
Thank you for your reply. I do think Joy parishes overall pay better, because they don’t have the tent maker approach , meaning they don’t expect a priest to put on the suit and tie during the week.
Understand it’s hard to stay in a parish with a hierarchy that is less than desirable.
The masks were very divisive . when they were instituted people left. When they were discontinued people left. You can’t please everybody.
Hi Mary,
I saw a general survey of clergy of all types a few years ago in which Greek Orthodox Priests were the third highest paid clergy on average of any kind in the USA, behind only Reform and Conservative Rabbis. Whereas the OCA Priests were sort of in the middle of the pack as I recall.
This is what generates the old joke: “What’s the difference between a Greek cross and a Russian cross?” “On the back of a Russian cross, it says ‘Serve and Protect’. On the back of a Greek Cross, it says “14K Gold.”
The only compensation I want is to watch a parish grow and to one day live in a monastery. An occasional sandwich would be nice.
Yes. Embarrassing and cringey.
He is literally copying Francis now. Francis meets with open and non-open-but-everyone-knows gays and shows them his special brand of love, gets accolades from the children of this world, and gets noticed.
Yes, Bart doesn’t have the control over our Church that Francis has over his, but Bart is an obvious beta orbiter who just wants so desperately to be like Francis. Like I said, embarrassing.
No doubt this is part of their 2025 plan. Bart is fashioning himself into a Francis 2.0, an eastern pope.
What is the irony in this? In doing all of this he has isolated himself from pretty much the entire Orthodox world, except his sycophants. If Bart was smart (spoiler alert, he’s not) he would have healed the Ukrainian schism and unified Orthodoxy behind him, this would have lulled Orthodox into a false sense of security and Bart would have been much more successful in dragging more people to Rome.
Now, at this point it’s just him and his merry band of schismatic nazis and their Fordham friends prancing off to Unia. Ciao, see ya, sionara.
God will bring good out of this situation and I’m starting to think this will be it.
Hamas Delegation Arrives In Moscow As Russia Blames US For Escalation
In a somewhat unexpected development, a delegation of Hamas leaders have arrived in Moscow for talks, the Russian Foreign Ministry has confirmed Thursday evening (local time). “I can confirm that representatives of the [Hamas] Palestinian movement are visiting Moscow,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said in a press briefing, vowing to provide relevant details as the talks unfold.
The visit had not been previously announced by either side, and the Hamas delegation is being led by a senior member of the group, Moussa Abu Marzouk. Hamas is a designated terror organization in the US, European Union, and some other countries; but it has official relations with countries like Iran, Turkey, Syria, and now apparently Russia.
See: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hamas-delegation-arrives-moscow-after-russia-blamed-us-escalation
Has it occurred to anyone else that Iran is behaving exactly the way it would if it had already used its enriched uranium to make several nuclear weapons and attached them to the hypersonic missiles which we know they already have?
Something that the Israelis, the Ukrainian and the entire West are going to have to understand, even if they are dragged to it, kicking and scratching, is that the rest of the world is fed up to the teeth with secular humanism in its Liberal incarnation. It’s the multikulti, the feminism and the perversion all drenched in sanctimonious holier than thou self righteousness. A devil so stark is even clear and offensive to heathen, much less Christians.
The problem is Liberalism.
Earth is developing antibodies and a strong immune response to it. Israel is a carrier, as is the Ukraine, as is the entire West. It is accursed and an invitation to resistance. They glorify it as “democracy” and “freedom” and “our values”, but it is just a dying remnant of the Enlightenment.
Now, will all Enlightenment thought just disappear? No, of course not. It all gets taken into the synthesis of human political-cultural consciousness. But its dominance over other forms of wisdom, other philosophies, is coming to an end.
And that’s terrifying and traumatic to liberals who see all other philosophies as discredited remnants of a superstitious age. That something might prevail over their “end of history” is unconscionable and unsettling to them.
WHEN WILL ORTHODOX FAITHFUL
Take Action & Demonstrate Against GOA?!!!
Forget demonstrating. That’s a waste of time.
Vote with the checkbook, and the feet.
They’ll get the message. Trust me.
Patr B can be all over these hotdog “marriages” if he wants – he long ago lost any credibility in my book, I pay him no attention anymore –
But we all know why he gives the deluded man Kasselakis an audience – because he’s a powerful Hellene.
Blood runs thicker than faith to many nominal Orthodox Christians, sadly. This phenomenon a huge temptation in the “old country” Orthodox world….. many succumb to it.
We should be thankful that this effect is minimal in America. We may not have deep Orthodox roots here, but at least the faithful and the Churches we do have tend to be serious.
If Kasselakis tried to push his hotdog relationship on most American Orthodox outside of the Fordhamite group, we’d tell him that we don’t care how Greek he is (and neither does God) — repent, learn to love Christ, struggle, pick up your Cross and follow Him.
If only Patr B would tell him a similar message.
I agree. Does Bart agree with gay marriage/skittles agenda? Probably. Even though not too long ago he was against it. He sways whichever way the cultural zeitgeist of the West swings.
I think more so he seeks political favor, it’s in his DNA and in the DNA of the Fanar. He would kiss the feet of Hitler if he knew it would give him political favor. There’s a reason why you see him meeting with political figures more than he does his fellow Orthodox clergy.
Bart has long since I validated himself, luckily that doesn’t invalidate his entire patriarchate. We should pray that stays the case.
Indeed, it seems that other primates can’t even get in the same room with him. Antioch wanted him to mediate with Jerusalem — his one canonical role in the wider church — 8 years ago and he wouldn’t. Which caused Crete to blow up in his face, and he’s never gotten over it.
It’s too late to pull the breaks to prevent the alliance train filled with the UNHOLY OF HOLIES in the UNORTHODOX Greek Church from complete disaster and implosion. It’s already left the station and speeding mightily, heading for the cliff just beyond in the near distance!
Quick decisive action is required by everyone. Do you spend the next few precious moments of life waiting for a miraculous transformation? Or, does one JUMP immediately before it’s too late? Of course anything can and will happen if aligned with God. But what if, the Greek Orthodox Church is actually NOT properly aligned in the house of God? As a participant in the Greek Orthodox faith, do you rise to the occasion and overthrow the governing idiots in Turkey and here in America? Or abandon ship before it quickly finishes sinking, while continually pulling air out of your lungs sucking you down underneath, into the deep, dark crevices of the vast black sea?
The GO Hierarchy is nothing but a bunch of pansy globalists disguised as fake “Priests” promoting a single, secular twisted theology based on man’s frailties and weaknesses, selfish lusts and emotions and thirst for power thrusting rules and laws with such outright arrogant ignorance and shear stupidity having no clue or regard as to how God’s will works along with Christ’s infinite wisdom and patience. I don’t see anyone rising to defeat this enemy and trust me, they are enemies with alliances to Satan’s demonic angels in full force.
While we should indeed continue praying for the Hierarchy’s repentance and ultimate salvation, it’s more important as saved Christians that we tend to the weak, abandoned, wounded and blinded sheep!
We are called as disciples to tend to the needs of our fellow sisters and brothers who are desperate and near the end of their ropes into a life saving relationship with Christ Himself–not toward some “religion”. It’s never been not about a “religion” or any specific religion, but about a one-on-one relationship with Christ directly that keeps us firmly grounded, rooted on His foundation that overcomes everything.
Christ IS our VICTORY and our GLORY. Nothing and no one else can conquer or defeat. No other church. No pious hierarchy in office or in an elected position will succeed, without first having FAITH rooted in one Sovereign God, our Creator and King.
Don’t look to the Antiochians to confront the GOA. I just finished reading the Statement of the Holy Synod of Antioch (Oct 21, 2023). Not a peep from the Synod Fathers about the queering of the GOA, or of the apostasy of Pat. Bart. Such silence, to me, reeks of the sin of consent.
I don’t think the actions of some members of an irrelevant foreign church are at the top of the Antiochian synod’s list of priorities at this time.
I agree with Antiochian Son, Hilber. I don’t think the antics of Bart, Elpi & Co., are very high on the list of priorities of the Antiochian Patriarchate at this time. I assume that on the local level Patriarch John has delegated that discernment to Met. Saba (who recently signed the letter to Elpi). I think Antioch has bigger fish to fry. Though they did mend the schism with Jerusalem which I think at the moment is much more important that dealing with a certain prideful Greek sitting in a Muslim city.
I stand corrected, Hilber. The actions of the EP were discussed at the recent Antiochian Synod. Translation from Greek:
Notice how they specified that Met. Onuphry is the legitimate head of Orthodoxy in Ukraine.
If Kasselakis was a professing Orthodox Christian, then I could see how this would be a problem. However, he is not. He has chosen instead to be an open atheist, and there’s not a contradiction between his atheism and homosexual marriage.
What’s surprising is not that Patriarch Bartholomew would talk with this man, and even have his picture taken with him. Jesus was accused of being seen with sinners also. Rather, what strikes me as more surprising is that Kasselakis, as an open atheist, would want to have a meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew and have his picture taken with him.
Re: “Jesus was accused of being seen with sinners also.”
Yes, and he answered, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Interview with The National Herod:
TNH: There have been cases when some people, including hierarchs and priests, approached you and told you, Mr. Kasselakis, what are you doing?
St. Kasselakis: “No, no one ever. The opposite. And at the meeting with His All Holiness the Ecumenical Patriarch, I told him about my partner and he reacted normally, there was no qualm. I expressed my desire to go to the Phanar and the Patriarch said with great joy, on the Epiphany.”
Not exactly a St. Photina encounter. Not even close.
Brian, did Jesus call Pontius Pilate and the Roman guards who crucified him to repentance? No, I don’t believe so. Yet Christ forgave them, as he was being crucified, saying “Father, forgive them for they know not what they are doing”. Christ’s forgiveness was repentance on their behalf.
Great point, Brian.
One of these days I’d like to get an idea of Mr Lipper’s monthly stipend amount from Istanbul.
Brother Joseph is the Scott Sterling of the GOA. He keeps taking the hits for his team. https://youtu.be/8F9jXYOH2c0?feature=shared
I rather like having Mr. Lipper here. It helps understand my ideological adversaries’ mentality better. Not that anything he’s said is surprising or new (I could probably have co-argued with him if I wanted to), but it’s always good to have the logic down for the record. We’ll always have the ‘Bart knows what he’s doing’ and ‘stay in line with the euro Atlantic block’ people out there, just as we had the jannisaries back in the day.
That’s why we love him. Articulating what you believe publicly, where other people can see it, is not such a bad thing.
Joseph Lipper:
“What’s surprising is not that Patriarch Bartholomew would talk with this man, and even have his picture taken with him. Jesus was accused of being seen with sinners also. Rather, what strikes me as more surprising is that Kasselakis, as an open atheist, would want to have a meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew and have his picture taken with him.”
What’s REALLY surprising Joseph is
that Bartholomew was told about the “partner and he reacted normally, there was no qualm”. Bartholomew had no qualm about the worst sin of Sodom!
And that whilst you really care about Bartholomew’s soul, you did not address here this important thing: B’s no qualm about the worst sin of Sodom!
Is Kasselakis, having his own personal agenda, actually a reliable source on the viewpoints of Patriarch Bartholomew? I’m not suggesting that he is lying about his interaction, but we’re not getting the Patriarch’s side of the story here either.
Patriarch Bartholomew has stated before that
“cohabitation between gays is sinful and will never be accepted by the Church.”
https://orthochristian.com/64095.html
He hasn’t stated anything differently since
Actually he has.
You see he and Pope Francis launched the snodality synod meetings in the Catholic church in an effort to mitigate the primacy issue, which is a deal breaker for the Orthodox. So if the Orthodox won’t accept a pope making all decisions, the Catholic church will become more synodal like the Orthodox!
But as they say, the devil is in the details.
Where our Holy Synods are comprised of patriarchs and bishops, the Catholics opened up their synodal process to kids. 20-something kids were on one of the first synods.
Then they had women who decided it was time to explore ordaining them so that is in the works.
Finally, they included the LGBTQ community. Although they cannot have an official marriage ceremony (let alone with crowns), it was decided they can have “blessings.” This idea, coupled with Elpi’s idea to let the spouses of the Orthodox commune, should take care of the LGBTQ problem. No need to repent. Just live live in sin and we’ll bless it.
So as sinful as Bartholomew says cohabitation between gays is, what he thinks and what he allows to happen are two different things. After all, he allowed his metropolitans to cavort with “Bolivarian Stallions” when they’re visiting him at the patriarchate, per Fancy Bear.
Finally, Pope Francis (presumably with Bartholomew’s permission), added a couple of other churches to the mix, which we, of course, will be required to join when we re reunited with the Catholics on April 20, 2025, a mere 18 months away. The female head of the Lutheran church, and the homosexual head of the Anglican church were present at the final synodlity synod meeting. Perhaps they were just taking notes, but when you stand with the Pope and Bartholomew in front of 1800 people in St. Peter’s Square and the 4 of you jointly bless the crowd, the message is pretty clear: https://www.oursundayvisitor.com/before-synod-retreat-pope-prays-for-listening-instead-of-polarization/
We are family, I got my brothers and sisters with me.
Everyone can see we’re together
As we walk on by
(Fly) and we fly just like birds of a feather
I won’t tell no lie
(All) all of the people around us they say
Can they be that close
Just let me state for the record
We’re giving love in a family dose”
Sister Sledge
To which we Orthodox will reply:
“We’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
We’re not gonna take it anymore
We’ve got the right to choose, and
There ain’t no way we’ll lose
This is our life, this is our song
We’ll fight the powers that be, just
Don’t pick on our destiny, ’cause
You don’t know us, you don’t belong”
Twisted Sister
Loved the 80s!
Normally I would say that’s a good thing, but, it is going to be an unmitigated disaster for Roman Catholicism, so really the problem for us Orthodox might actually solve itself.
Synodality works in Orthodoxy because that’s how we’ve always functioned and is the correct form of Church governance. All patriarchates operate synodically and share the same Orthodox Faith.
In contrast, synodality hasn’t been practiced by the Church of Rome for many, many centuries, it is not the correct form of church governance, and on top of that, the different synods within Roman Catholicism might share the same faith on paper, but in practice this is not even remotely the case.
Now that more power is being given to the various bishops synods around the world you can bet that the further disintegration of RC’ism will move warp speed ahead. You already have the bishops synod in Germany blessing SS unions, the various synods in Latin America still push liberation theology, there’s huge syncretism problems in Africa, Latin America & the Caribbean.
I think we in Orthodoxy should just sit back and watch the house of cards fall.
I’m sure the original behind the scenes plan that Bart & Francis worked out was for Bart to work on subsuming all Orthodox Churches under him and assert his authority. That clearly has not worked and now he has isolated himself from the vast majority of the Orthodox world and the only thing he has really done is vastly reduce the authority he has within Orthodoxy. Again, if the various Churches didn’t accept the OCU bc of their dubious ordinations, there’s a 0% chance that those Churches will accept a union with Rome who holds a completely different faith all together. IMHO (for what its worth) whenever Bart goes into union with Rome, if God allows it to happen, it will be a much lesser deal than what happened at Ferrera-Florence.
And Barfolomew once upon a time said that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church was the canonical church of Ukraine and that Metropolitan Onufriy was the Orthodox Metropolitan of Ukraine.
But then he changed is mind.
Not only that, in 2004 Bart required a “Kiev Patriarchate” priest to be chrismated and reordained when he came into Constantinople.
Now there are thousands of former KP clergy in Constantinople’s orbit who were received with the stroke of a pen. Not even by confession! How does that work?
Yeah, well, as my mother used to say, “It’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.”
Joseph,
You are forgetting that
Zero is a number too, and
Silence is a reply too!
Even B. cannot afford to be tacit or vague or diplomatic OR SLOW about the worst sin of Sodom!
Again, you are conveniently forgetting that
that statement of his was said in 2013.
So please tell us what else B. was saying about his good brother Cyrill and Ukraine and Onufriy then!
Joseph, please, don’t try any more justifying B. , you know why?
Softening an old saying,
“An inaccurate word can be justified by
another inaccurate word,
and so on..”
The silver lining is that
you give us the opportunity to show the inaccuracies…
Read Gail’s reply.
Ioannis,
The word that Patriarchate Bartholomew used was “never”, as in “cohabitation between gays is sinful and will never be accepted by the Church.” It’s a very simple, direct and clear statement that provides finality to the issue, and it really doesn’t warrant further discussion by him. I happen to agree with him. Do you?
In regards to Patriarch Bartholomew’s change of mind regarding Ukraine, he didn’t make statements using such words as “never” and “always”. While he previously supported the 1686 agreement that gave Moscow the right to ordain the Metropolitan of Kiev, he has also pointed out that this agreement, in his opinion, was one that could be revoked. By the way, that wasn’t a new opinion either. When he met with Patriarch Alexy II back in 2008 in Kiev, he also expressed the same opinion.
As for the Roman Catholics and their “synodality” meetings, I happen to agree with Gail’s comment that “there’s a 0% chance that [the Orthodox Church] will accept a union with Rome who holds a completely different faith all together.” In my opinion, these meetings are little more than PR photo-ops and speeches with nothing substantial happening that would indicate the possibility of a real union.
Joseph Lipper:
Ok, Joseph, nice, brave try, but again doomed to be inaccurate as per above old saying! Please consider these two points:
1) If you want to go down to the single-word-level-accuracy,
then consider another key word used by Bartholomew, he said:
He did not say “accepted by me“. He alone, personally, is NOT the church
But he knew that The Church would not accept this,
just like another EP in the past who told the Pope “even if we sign the union” the people will not accept it.”
Well, Yes, the people are the majority of the Church, not the Patriarchs….!
He may have implied that he will agree with the decision of THE CHURCH.
2)But suppose Bartholomew really meant himself when he said “the Church” above. This is then what he said back in 2013! But he is now doing the opposite!
Compare what he said then and now about Ukraine, Onuphriy etc.
In both cases 1) and 2) Bartholomew is consistently expected also now to be against Sodomism.
In that case he should be clear to Kas. telling him to “sin no more”.
Had he said that, then Kas. wouldn’t say “there was no qualm”.
And if Kas. is lying then Bart. would immediately publish a correcting reply because the stakes are huge.
Bart. has not done so, which means
-he has no time for such a trivial matter, or
-he couldn’t care less ,or
-on purpose leaves the matter vague, or
-he actually agrees with Kass., or
-other (fill in).
Ioannis, if Kasselakis was a professing Orthodox Christian, then I could see how Patriarch Bartholomew would have some responsibility to point out to him the discrepancy between our faith and Kasselakis’ current lifestyle, that is, if the topic of his lifestyle was brought up.
However, Kasselakis does not consider himself to be part of the Church. He is a professing atheist. There’s no contradiction between his atheism and his lifestyle. So for Patriarch Bartholomew to talk with “no qualms” to this man is not problematic, and it certainly doesn’t reflect a “gay agenda”.
Joseph,, on October 29, 2023 at 1:39 pm you said:
That justification hasn’t worked, and a new justification is now tried:
Bart also previously supported Met. Onuphry & the canonical UOC. Bart says a lot of things but it’s been shown that if you throw enough money at him and the Patriarchate then his “opinion” will change Toot Suite.
Extend that same $$ deal to Theodoros and he’ll change his opinion as well.
Will Bart backtrack on skittles marriage? Yea probably. Why? Because the people that pay his bills have told him to do so. Plus it behooves him to be more “inclusive” to fit in more with modern Roman Catholicism on his merry march to union.
Very well said Petro!
This is literally what Francis apologists say.
Jesus went to sinners to convert them, not to bask in their notoriety.
Fastest way to empty a church is turn it over to the alphabet folks. Hasn’t anyone figured that out. Or maybe that is the goal.
The more modern and ‘relevant’ they make it,
the less it appeals to those they claim to serve
and the faster they have to keep changing it
to try to stay modern and ‘relevant’.
If people wany modernity and ‘relevance’
they will go to dance halls and nightclubs.
If they want stability in raging seas of change,
they will go to their churches and chapels;
but what will they find there today?
So they go elsewhere: to gurus and covens;
and whose fault (or intent) is that?
Many “Alphabet folks” are faithful Orthodox Christians who pray, fast, go to confession and seek to live in accordance with the teachings of Christ and His Bride, foregoing the possibility of marriage and willingly enduring an unwarranted (by means of social attitudes in the Church) life of exclusion and solitude. The very ugly vilifying language that is often used within the Church against “Alphabet people” is exactly the language the drives such people, of which I am one, away from the Church or into open rebellion against the Church. Adultery, self pollution, pride, evil speaking, acquisitiveness, and other sins are “okay” while homosexuality and gender dysphoria warrant the creation of a separate caste within the Church. Christ makes no such distinction. Have compassion for those whose suffering has turned them from the Church and for those within who endure mockery and ill treatment for personal characteristics that they are unable to change.
Well, it shouldn’t, Joanna. What we think about anything is irrelevant to your salvation. And it’s an excuse because I suspect you know that everyone in the Church is a sinner. Just like the alphabet people who for whatever reason want the rest of us to know their sins and embrace them. We don’t (embrace their sins) nor should we have to. Frankly, we’re not the ones without compassion. It is the people who want to shove their proclivities down the throats of people who are dealing with their own issues that are creating the problems. For themselves and for everyone else. – Why would Jesus have called out a particular sin? The intent of Jesus’ statement in Matthew 5:17 is, “I did not come to do away with the Law or the Prophets, but I came to uphold them in everything that I say and do.
Firstly, “alphabet people” are not a monolithic population with a single agenda. There are plenty of sober-minded faithful people in the Church that “everyone knows about” who have never said a word about their sexual orientations.
Secondly, if you think for a moment that “we’re not the ones without compassion”, I would invite you to think more deeply about the experience of someone who lives with this burden from puberty onward and how it might affect their life trajectory in the Church. Is monastic life the only option for homosexuals in the Church? How might it feel to hear from hierarchs that you are a filthy pervert that needs to be driven from the Church? Is it not heartbreaking to hear a hierarch speak this way about anyone, but especially about someone that you may know and love? The rebuttal of “habitual unrepentant sinner” does not apply here – because we both know there are plenty of those in every parish. Sin is sin. Think deeply: how much shame must someone carry for something that they cannot change, even if they choose to live celibate until they repose? I’ll give you a hint: it’s enough to drive someone to suicide.
But we weren’t talking about the people who are sober-minded and quiet about their choices. Why on earth would I target them or anyone else for that matter? It’s the agenda I don’t like. I was quite clear about that.
Look, Joanna, we don’t allow people to make their comments personal on this blog. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But because you asked, I do think I have more, let’s put it this way, “constructive” compassion than you do because I don’t insist on my own way. In other words, for me to be right, you don’t have to be wrong. I’m fine with it. I don’t want to pursue it because it’s a waste of time and space, but I assure you, I won’t give this conversation a second thought.
Pointing fingers at people you don’t know and finding them lacking is not a “compassionate” thing to do, Joanne.
Think of it this way, if it’s “OK” to be like the alphabet people, why the shame? Why can’t they be who they are without my feelings being part of the equation? I don’t ask anyone to weigh in on my life.
I don’t treat anyone differently, either. Where did I indicate that?
People commit suicide for a variety of reasons. Not everybody thinks the way you do, my dear. You do not speak for anyone but yourself and because you’re determined to make us the “bad guys,” for upholding the teachings of the Church, I’m going to have to end this conversation.
If you want to comment here, stick to the issues. Stop judging people for having an opinion that is different from yours.
You’re not not interested in exploring the whys and what for of suicide! You are trying to use the suicide of others as a weapon, by suggesting their death was somehow my fault for upholding the teachings of the Church.
In all honesty, you’re trying to shame me into agreeing with you!
So I’m going to call you out on this: What hierarch called people “filthy perverts and drove them from the Church?” It’s not “heartbreaking to hear” because I’m fairly certain you didn’t hear it or see it! If you did, I’d like you to prove it. Hierarchs are public figures so it’s fine to name names. But this kind of behavior generally doesn’t express itself in just one situation. It would be happening to many people and we would most likely have already heard about it given what we do. So I’d like to give you the opportunity to either prove your statement or retract it. No shame in that. It’s important to keep the record straight. –Frankly, hierarchs can be gay. Even Saints. Presumably, they don’t act on it but that’s between them and their confessors. I don’t need to be involved. People can go whole lifetimes without sex and do. What you call a “burden” we call a cross and we all have one.
‘ Adultery, self pollution, pride, evil speaking, acquisitiveness,
and other sins are [NOT] “okay”… ‘
To say they are completely misrepresents the Church,
though not necessarily the sinners who comprise it.
Faithful Christians should not adopt the identity of sin. That’s what LGBT+ is, a sinful identity.
If an Orthodox Christian is struggling against the flesh but still identifying as an LGBT alphabet person, he/she is working against the Holy Spirit’s transforming power. And maybe even setting him/herself up for failure.
We are sinners, but we are not our particular passions. If a man’s identity is his gayness, how is he going to let that go for the sake of Christ?
Your point about other sins not being talked about as much is fair as far as it goes, but nobody is arguing that adultery, self pollution, pride, evil speaking, acquisitiveness, and other sins are “okay”. Society is arguing that sodomy is okay. Kids are being taught it’s okay.
Children are brainwashed with the alphabet agenda by age 10. Not just nones, but faithful Christians. I have a dear friend whose 15 year old daughter is trans through no fault of him and his wife, or their private school, but just the culture at large.
What we do not fight, we concede. Our children are worth it.
Well said!
I recently began attending a GOA parish with a priest I truly love. I have not yet had the “difficult conversation” about these kinds of matters in the GOA, though plan to eventually, as I want to know where he stands.
But this news is so disheartening. If nothing else, I want to state here for any clergy who might read this, that I strongly object to any tolerance of unrepentant homosexual behavior in Orthodoxy, and to any sign it is acceptable, for the scandal it causes the faithful and real damage it does to Orthodoxy.
If you clergy want your Church to survive, all you need to do is look at the Anglican Church, which at this point is almost completely dead and empty. Look at the Catholic Church, which has been signaling acceptance of homosexuality for decades, including rainbow flags on altars in parishes across the US and pro-gay ministries for LGTBQ youth – and look at how fast Catholics are quitting that Church as a result. It is the fasting-dying church in the US.
If you want Orthodoxy to survive, do not do as they have done. People are hungering, hungering, for truth, and if you stand up for truth we will follow you gladly.
But if you don’t, we will not follow and Orthodoxy will wither just like the rest.
There are other issues too, artificial birth control being another. The Anglicans were the first church to accept it, and the first to start rushing downhill and dying. I read the other day the Antiochians now have a document approving it, though I haven’t been able to find it. If anyone knows if this is true or not, I’d appreciate hearing from you. If true, it makes me sick to my stomach.
The more we let these things into the Church, the more spiritual damage they do and the weaker we become. And the less blessed by God and the more easily overrun by others, what God warned ancient Israel against. And look where the West is today.
I cannot see what’s sinful about birth control.
Seriously, most persons are not that savvy.
The pill, morning after pill etc are abortifacient, I.e., they perform abortions by preventing the implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus. Some claim that this isn’t abortion, but this overlooks the fact that pregnancy begins at fertilization and not when the fertlized egg is implanted in the uterus.
I am in the Greek Church, under Patriarch Bartholomew. As such, on my phone, I go to the archdiocese website often to read the gospel reading for the day. In a normal world, this would mean that the Greek Church and all things Orthodox, really, would appear in my news feed – just like the galaktoboureko recipes that start to appear when I search on galaktoboureko once – and yet nothing could be further from the truth. But as things continue to get more and more unhinged, two things are bound to happen for sure: 1. I’ll be leaving the Greek Church for much greener pastures and 2. The Greek Church will start to appear in my news feed – without any prompting from me. Once the latter happens, I expect that gay, trans, women’s, race and animal rights will be rife in the Greek Church and the world will be on its way to the one world religion.
Vasko we are following you! It’s unbelievable.
Just as with society in general, the incremental queering and in the broader sense, “wokeification” of the Church is happening from various directions, not so much master-choreographed, but definitely synergistically building in its momentum toward apostasy. One person to keep an eye on is Rev. Nicholas Anton, Director of Operations for the Assembly of Bishops (AoB). From his bio we see that “he has dedicated his life to faith-based diplomacy and advocacy.” He crafted the EP’s eco-justice positions, the second moral priority the EP has set (the first being that people are adequately devoted to the EP, and a corollary to that, his high financing needs). A takeaway from one of Anton’s professors at seminary that has guided his work is to be “at the same time steadfast in the faith and yet openminded to the world.” Perhaps that explains his passion for lecturing parishioners on their white privilege in a Philoptochos-sponsored event. All that to set the stage for this zinger that appeared in the AoB’s Q3 Newsletter: “The Church and Society Committee evaluated the results of the AoB’s survey on social issues. The survey overwhelmingly indicated gender and sexuality as the top issue for Orthodox Christians in the USA. Accordingly, the Committee began researching the topic in order to best serve the community.” That statement in itself is interesting, that our leaders don’t know from church teaching grounded in scripture as attested to by the saints, what our positions should be on these things? Exactly what do they plan to research for a model of an episcopal response—the Episcopal church? (pun intended). If you go to the AoB’s website and check out their affiliated agencies, the Orthodox Peace Fellowship (tinged with Christo-Marxism), The Orthodox Theological Society (Fordham-minded off-campus playground covered with a patina of academe), among others, we see the woke-o-synergism building. “Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy [long] night.”
Mr Fotopoulos, thank you for this information. I had no idea how far gone the cultural marxism was.
It doesn’t strike me as strange that he would want his picture taken with Bartholomew. He’s looking for the perception of unconditional acceptance in all spheres Greek. His very words say so. It is not enough for such people to be tolerated. They crave to be positively affirmed in their behavior. He should have been lovingly denied the opportunity.
What about the Ukrainian Orthodox Church USA or the Carpatho-Rusyn’s (both under the EP and it seems to me, always in deference to the GOA)? How are they on this issue?
You answered your own question in recognizing that both these jurisdictions are under the EP. Organizationally they are vicarates of the GOA; Their bishops answer to the GOA Archbishop of America and deference is part of their job description.
These groups are all in-sync with Phanarite ideology. The only ones that wish they can break away are the former JP parishes. The structure of the EP itself is uncanonical and phyletist based.
The EP based churches are an umbrella group of parallel bishops. For example what many don’t know is that there are two seperate Greek archdioceses in America . There is the standard GOARCH everyone knows about but you have the 6 or 7 Greek parishes under the bishop who is abbot of the St. Irene Chrysovslantu Monastery in NY and claim about 5000 adherents. These parishes even though some are sizeable are not listed in GOARCH website under the search for parishes option as they are a completely different structure. These parishes are directly under Constantinople as metochions. Then you have the Carpatho- Russians, the Ukranians, the vicariate for Jerusalem churches, all with their own bishops answering to Constantinople. As long as they have some autonomy they can care less. You think Belya of the Slavic vicariate really cares about innovations? Don’t kid yourself these others are cut from the same cloth.
I will say that ACROD may be an exception. I remain prayerfully hopeful that ACROD – or at least some of its parishes – eventually join the OCA. Remember ACROD is only in C’ple because of historical anomalies and disasters that happened with the communist revolutions & because of various Russification issues nearly 100 years ago. Like most of the original OCA parishes, ACROD was initially nearly all former Byzantine Catholics. Metropolitan Orestes Chornock did very similar things as St Alexis Toth.
My former ACROD parish in PA is quite traditional and remains on the Julian calendar.
Historically, you’ll find few stronger Orthodox Christian groups than Carpatho-Rusyns.
Does your ACROD parish still use the abbreviated version of St. John Chrysostom’s liturgy? My spiritual father is an ACROD priest and that’s how it’s done in his church. I sometimes ask him, you guys have been back in the church for almost a century, isn’t it time to get things right? But he responds that they have changed a lot of things; no more Monsignors nor First Holy Communion at age seven.
BTW, he’s very much against this Ukrainian caper, maybe even more so than me. I’m sure there will come a time when he will have to jump the fence. I think one reason for the existence of ACROD; what I call the reverse Uniate mentality. For a long time. Rome felt the need to latinize the Eastern Catholics. It was even said, I think, that to latinize is to catholicize. When Uniates became Orthodox, it seemed that they felt the need to ditch low back vestments and prostopinije for Russian style highbacks and choral music. The Rusyns who were part of this second wave of conversion to Orthodoxy wanted to keep their traditions. My OCA parish uses prostopinije, though we also use some Russian chant and occasionally throw in Serbian and Greek stuff, reflecting the makeup of the parish.
Yes Father,
I recall those days when reading old parish commemorative books from the ‘50s-‘70s or so when ACROD clergy were referred to as “Monsignor.” Very Latin style. I believe started to fizzle out around the time of Bishop John Martin, who was elected in the ‘70s or so, after Met. Orestes.
Unfortunately the abbreviated liturgy is a thing in places – you know what they call it – “St John Chrysostom’s Greatest Hits.” Haha.
Antiochians do or used to do something similar – omit like 4 litanies, go straight from the Gospel & sermon right into the Cherubic Hymn.
I would like to start sharing actual ideas about what we can actually do? the bishops are silent. Perhaps some are complicit. Even in our parishes we are called homophobes. the only thing I know to do is vote with our feet and go to another jurisdiction though NONE of them are problem free. Should I just put blinders on and just focus on my own salvation? Not read this stuff and put my head in the sand? Sing in the choir, go to Philoptohos and mind my own business? It is all around us in our culture but with it infiltrating our Church, and we feel powerless to change anything and its more than discouraging, I seriously want to know…what do we do that will be effective? What can we DO?
Don’t give them money. Not a cent. That will get some attention.
Maybe print out flyers and put them on widows of the parishioners cars alerting them. We have this monomakhos website but it’s reach is limited. I also think we need to start calling out bishops, priests and monks by name (like I do). Of course by far the very best thing to do is leave for the old calendarists or at the very least threaten to do so and be vocal about it. The New Calendarists will squirm and turn into rabid venomous dogs, if so, be prepared for your supposed gentle GOARCH priest to go Azov battalion on you. Don’t get me wrong they don’t dare do that with me because they will lose on every front, but for a woman the new calendarist henchmen will bully you. For masculine Orthodox men nothing quite like bringing up the old calendarists for the modernists Greek clergy and monks to tuck their tails between their legs speechless and run off like cowards
Sound advice, Kosta.
Yes, you are saying similar to myself – to vote with our feet, and go to another jurisdiction which at least is doing better than the GOA. Or fighting and speaking out where we are! Gathering likeminded people together to make a plan of action as well. It’s hard to speak out, but that is part of being truly Orthodox, picking up our crosses, and being true to the Faith no matter the cost. We need to speak intelligently, and as true Christians. We must pray for our local parishes, and clergy at all ranks. I would continue to ask for ideas. We know the problem. We need an action plan. A good book to read might be “The Benedict Option” by Rod Dreher who encourages small communities, wherever we are, to unite to stand against the evil that is with us. Thank you for your ideas and thoughts and responding.
Anna, I can commiserate with you, having been in a similar predicament myself. I was stuck on the parish council in a GOA parish during the so-called pandemic, when the Phanar and the GOA hierarchy went full “Covidian” on us. Pat. Bart. had recently granted a phony “tomos of autocephaly” to the OCU sect in Ukraine. Abp. Elpi. refused to allow his priests to give exemptions from vaccination on religious grounds. All the while, they were anxious to complete the Taj Mahal called St. Nicholas and keep the cash flowing to the Patriarch’s coffers.
By God’s grace, I was able to smell a rat, like many others. I did what I could to object to our parish’s lockstep obedience to the policies from on high, but was consistently overruled by the legal and medical experts on the council. I traveled to monasteries and parishes on the mainland searching for an answer to my question as to whether I should leave the GOA or not. I spent several days at Abbot Tryphon’s monastery, which visit helped me to decide to get the hell out of the GOA. I was fortunate enough to have access to a ROCOR parish, so I have joined them and now happily sing in the choir.
Abbot Tryphon has just posted this unequivocal statement: “I have written about Patriarch Bartholomew several times. I believe him to be an apostate.” The abbot does to mince words. Most of us on this blog agree with him.
Now, where does that leave you? Do you know that whenever you partake of the Holy Gifts of the chalice that you tacitly declare your allegiance to the hierarchs from which the grace originates? The charism flows mystically from the patriarch downward through your archbishop, through your metropolitan to your priest who confects the sacrament in the Holy Liturgy. Any priest who openly rebels against his ruling bishop will, sooner or later, have his permission to celebrate the sacraments revoked. That is because the priest, to use an Anglican term, is the vicar of his parish. In other words, he serves vicariously for the bishop because the bishop cannot be in every parish of any given Sunday. Whenever you partake, you are quietly admitting that you are in fellowship with Pat. Bart. and Abp. Elpi. Is that the position in which you want yourself to be? (The clergymen on this blog will please correct me if I have this wrong.)
So, knowing this, you can stay in the GOA and sit quietly in the pews, but that may rightly offend your conscience. You can speak up and object to the statements and actions of the GOA leadership. That may have some effect, and may satisfy your conscience, but you will be ignored by most people and be opposed by some. You can withdraw and become a spiritual lone ranger, but that is a road to prelest. Or you can leave. I would suggest that you make your objections known to your priest and metropolitan and get out of there.
Having said that, make sure you have the next step planned before you take this step. This will sound sarcastic, but in the United States we are fortunate to have a divided Church. If you live in a city where there are parishes of more orthodox Orthodox jurisdictions, then if I were you, I would test the waters there before you shake the dust off your feet in your GOA parish. The general tone at the parochial level is important, of course, but make sure that the clergy and hierarch of that prospective parish pass your litmus test before you make the change permanent. Now, if you are alone, then the problem is simple. However, if you worship with members of your family or if you have godchildren, then the issue becomes more complicated. You’ll need to pray for discernment in that case.
May the Holy Spirit be with you and godspeed to you whatever you decide to do.
Thank you, Lawerence Wheeler. These are very serious words and I take them seriously.
What has the people of the church done in the past when heresy has arisen?
I wholeheartedly agree with Abbot Tryphon on this. But, the way Orthodox ecclesiology works means that because Bart is, IMHO, an apostate, that doesn’t mean that the entire patriarchate that he oversees is apostate and without Grace. If it comes to that point then it will be a council of the Church to decide.
I lived right next to an Antiochian parish that went full covidian, and quite literally hosts events that promote heretical teachings. The OCA also has modernist/skittles promoting individuals within it. The EP/GOA don’t have a monopoly on this. I drove 30 extra minutes to attend a Greek parish that promoted Athonite spirituality and was one of the best parishes I’ve ever been to just to avoid the Antiochian parish near me.
I also currently go to a GOA parish that is very uplifting with a great confessor. But the very instant the priest or Metropolitan promote anything related to those thing, I’ll be gone faster than a blink of an eye, and my priest is very aware of that.
I also may sometimes have rose colored glasses when it comes to the Greeks because ethnically I’m very similar to them and I feel “home” when I’m with them, especially when I lived far away from my family.
But, we need to be very careful to not take it upon ourselves to invalidate an entire patriarchate with millions of people and instead fight against those individuals within that patriarchate who are pushing these aberrations.
And they do need to be stopped because the OCA, Antiochians, Serbians, even the Russians are not infallible and could fall. Just look at Rome and the ancient Churches of Asia Manor or North Africa.
I’m not one to give up on a fight when it comes to the Church, I understand not everyone is that way. But I expect many of us on Monomakhos are up for a fight to defend the Church because thats why we’re here.
What part of the country are you in? The Antiochian parishes in my area are quite solid.
This was just a one-off parish in the area that was like that, though I have experienced a couple of other parishes that were similar who had previously been part of the EOC back in the 80’s and became Orthodox.
I was using the examples above to show that every single parish in GOARCH isn’t bad, or that every single Metropolis in GOARCH isn’t bad just because their Patriarch & Archbishop quite frankly suck.
Alas, this happened in several of the mainline Protestant confessions. All you can do is leave. There’s no effective way to fight it from within. Excommunication by the other patriarchates is long overdue. The Russians have already severed communion based on the fake church in the Ukraine. But unless the whole Church wishes to follow suit, the clock is ticking til when they must act and isolate the Fanar or become collaborators.
😳 collaborators!
Gail, with that letter I sent please feel free to add all of this on there.
I fully intend on send that to every bishop on the Assembly, including the Greeks.
OK, no problem.
Erdogan, though he is very much a fool, has been touting the resurgence of the Ottoman Empire as of late. The Greeks had seriously better watch out because if Turkey decides to make a move for the islands or try and take Macedonia (the Greek province) then the Americans will not come help.
It’s been shown time & time again that allies of America are thrown to the wolves when “Project (insert country here)” goes awry.
The biggest mistake the Greeks could have made is to cut off ties with Russia, the only ones that would have probably helped them.
Now, what this means for ole Bart is even more interesting. I imagine his bleak situation in the Fanar is growing increasingly more dim.
But Russia would come to help and then we’d be in “prophesy” territory.
Yep, I meant to put that. If that’s the case then we can look to St. Paisios.
I believe the two things to watch for are the death of Erdogan or the West striking Iran.
I think it’s very obvious the way this is going…
Looks like we’re about to get another tried and true Bart incursion into yet another country who’s territory is autonomous under the MP
They sound like another Ukraine from the standpoint that there is no separation between government and Church.
I read that when the Russian Federation went into Ukraine, the Latvian President Egils Levits petitioned the Seimas (Latvia’s parliament) to give the Latvian Orthodox Church autocephaly and thus formalize its complete independence from Moscow. (I guess they think governments can give autocephaly now.)
Three days later, the country’s parliament passed a law that required the Latvian Orthodox Church to bring its statute into conformity with a new law and became independent from Moscow. The parliament acted quickly because, according to Levits, such a change was required for Latvia’s national security given the long history of Moscow using Orthodox churches abroad for political purposes.
Maybe they figured out that it’s not the MP they should fear.
Bartholomew doesn’t look too happy and he couldn’t be standing further from the guy and still make it in the picture!
Bart is just a political figure in clerical robes.
I think the Latvian Church still gets its myrrh from Moscow, at least that’s what it seemed like recently.
I’m obviously pro-Church of Russia & Russia (within reason), but, from a Church perspective I do have some qualms with the Church of Russia. One of them is that in taking their Orthodoxy seriously, which of course is not a bad thing, they seem to retract any time there is a problem when they could/should stay and fight.
For example: The “council” in Crete. I understand their reasoning for not going, but, being the largest Orthodox Church by population they could have provided a very much needed pushback on the documents. By removing themselves from the meeting is IMHO part of why where we’re at today in the Church.
Another example: Same as above but with the AOB here in America. Again, I know why they’re not a part of the Assembly but having the ROCOR presence on the Assembly would provide a non-stop headache for Elpi, which is also much needed.
The other thing is for autocephaly for the Churches in Ukraine, Latvia, Japan, all places (except for maybe Japan) have an ancient Orthodox population that could have been autocephalous, especially Ukraine.
If they had attended, it would have been the great and holy “pan-Orthodox” occasion Bartholomew envisioned it to be. The minutes were effectively his agenda. He claimed everything had already been signed off in Chambesy and there was nothing more to discuss.
Because Russia, Antioch, Bulgaria, the OCA and Georgia weren’t there, he can’t claim it was anything but a joke and yet he persists. He says the outcome remains the same regardless of who was or wasn’t there.
Bartholomew made it clear before the meeting, there was to be no more discussion, particularly with respect to Ukraine. That’s why Russia didn’t go. It would have been useless.
Antioch didn’t go over the Qatar debacle. – They all had “reasons.” If they were there, they, too, would have had to barricade themselves in their rooms if they disagreed with anything.
Was ROCOR recognized by Russia at that point? Don’t remember.
Yes, ROCOR and the MP reunited back in 2007. Crete was in 2016.
Russia could not go to Crete to attest to heresy. Pat. Bartholomew locked in wording in the draft of the final statement that recognized “churches”, plural, other than the Orthodox Church; i.e., accepted the RCC as a part of The Church. It had been agreed long before the council that all local churches would have to agree in order to make any changes in the prepared drafts. That meant Constantinople had to approve for it to be corrected. Essentially, Bartholomew tried to control or coerce the Holy Spirit into blessing heresy. The Spirit of Truth declined the invitation. It was stupid of the other patriarchates to allow Bartholomew to attempt to corral them in that way, but that is a different subject.
Anything that recognizes the RCC as part of the Church is heresy. It cannot be included in any document intending to reflect the will of The Church and supposedly blessed by the Holy Spirit. Those avoiding Crete did the Church an enormous favor. Yes, it is part of the reason we are where we are today, and we should be grateful that the Fanar has become increasingly isolated. It is on the way out of the Church. Facing it will save us all much hand wringing.
As to ROCOR being on the AOB, I always thought that this was a bad idea. The contemporary survival of the fittest needs to be left to take its course in America so that tradition minded jurisdictions are not hampered by decisions of less tradition minded churches. But it became impossible after the Fanar’s interference in the Ukraine. Poaching people into a pseudo-church on its canonical territory by violence is simply not something the ROC could countenance or remain in communion with. If ever there were a reason to sever communion, that was it.
As to the autocephaly of the UOC: There is no reason for it. Rus’ is modern Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. Patriarch Kirill is styled “Patriarch of Moscow and of all Rus'”. That is what that means. It’s a very old title since the Russian nation was founded at Holmgard/Novgorod and Kiev in the 9th and 10th centuries. Later, due to the Mongol invasions, the capital ended up as Moscow, then Petersburg, then again at Moscow. But Russia was founded to a great degree in what is now the Ukraine (Kievan Rus’). Rurik ruled from Novgorod but Oleg, his successor, ruled from Kiev. Later, The Holy Prince Vladimir was baptized in Kherson.
The autocephaly meme originates either from schismatics who preceded the Maidan coup d’etat, such as the disgraced “Patriarch Filaret”, or the coup d’etat itself. Now, with the Banderite regime in power, Met. Onufry is in a terrible position, much like the hierarchs of the MP under the Bolsheviks and so he has to do what he does to survive.
But way before all of this the UOC had full autonomy and independence in every form but name. Now, of course, it will all be decided by the MP in all Russian controlled territory.
Great summary. That the UOC held together the true Church in Ukraine in spite of everything they’ve been through is truly extraordinary. There are many jewels in Ukraine but that Church is more important and more beautiful. The people who held onto their faith deserve passion bearer status IMO.
Misha,
indeed, great summary!
Keep up the good work!
Indeed. Thanks for this brilliant, yet concise, summery, Misha.
Holy Martyr Elpidophoros of Persia, pray to God for us!
German bishop asks priests to ‘bless’ homosexual unions,
citing Pope Francis and Synodal Way
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/german-bishop-priests-bless-homosexual-pope-francis/?utm_source=featured-news&utm_campaign=usa
‘ Bishop Karl-Heinz Wiesemann of the Diocese of Speyer, Germany, has called on priests in his diocese to grant “blessing ceremonies” for homosexual unions as well as adulterous and sinful relationships outside of marriage.
In a November 2 letter to the clergy and staff of the diocese, the bishop invoked the German Synodal Way, which voted 93% in favor of same-sex “blessings,” together with other heterodox practices. Wiesemann also invoked Pope Francis’ statement, “Who am I to judge?” and suggested that such “blessings” should be adopted by the wider Church through the Synod on Synodality.
Claiming an urgency to the “blessing” of same-sex unions, Wiesemann wrote, “Both with regard to believers whose marriages have broken down and who have remarried, and especially with regard to same-sex oriented people, it is urgently time, especially against the background of a long history of deep wounds, to find a different pastoral attitude inspired by the Gospel, as many of you have been practicing for a long time.”
The bishop called for an overturning of Catholic teaching on homosexuality, declaring, “That is why I have advocated for a reassessment of homosexuality in church teaching and also for the possibility of blessings for same-sex couples. I stand by that. I hope that this pressing issue of our time can also be given a good further development on the path of the World Synod.” …
Although the diocese instructed that “the blessing must differ in word and sign from a church wedding, since it is not the celebration of a sacrament,” nonetheless, it affirmed that it is intended to “expressly strengthen as an act of blessing what exists in the couple’s relationship in terms of love, commitment and mutual responsibility,” in explicit contradiction to Catholic teaching. … ‘
They never stop pushing…
Pope Francis calls for a new theology not always
‘corresponding to the Christian face of God’
https://www.lifesitenews.com/analysis/pope-francis-calls-for-a-new-theology-not-always-corresponding-to-the-christian-face-of-god/?utm_source=featured_news&utm_campaign=usa
‘ Pope Francis has issued new priorities and statutes for the Vatican’s Pontifical Academy of Theology, stating that a newly focussed theology is needed, based on a popular “common sense” that is “often not corresponding to the Christian face of God.” … ‘
Pachamama…?
Theology may be termed the queen of the sciences, but its theories are not arrived at by a process of induction – especially one that eagerly includes data from other religions. Christian knowledge is derived from divine revelation, not from the data assembled from research. In the fulness of time, God sent his Son, the Logos himself. In science, on the other hand, hypothesis calls for experimentation; experimentation leads to conclusions; and conclusions become theories, if not contradicted. That is what the scientific method is to the rational Western mind. If so, then it were best that we not call Theology a “science” at all in order to avoid confusion.
I am no expert, but I perceive shades of Aldous Huxley’s The Perennial Philosophy in Pope Francis’ thinking and I fear that the pope is encouraging an uncoupling of the Catholic Faith from the weighty body of its own Tradition and a new train of reasoning assembled from the commonalities of the various world religions. Who knows where such an endeavor will wind up once it sets it aside and ventures forth? In an age of particular uncertainty, why is Francis openly advocating the questioning of the voluminous wisdom of Catholicism’s own Tradition? If each new pope is considered to be the Vicar of Christ and therefore has carte blanche to make things up as he goes along – within reason, of course – and if his successor can do the same after him, then we have a profoundly destabilizing proposition. Give me a Ratzinger any day of the week.
Are Catholic theologians now tasked by Francis’ Vatican to write the script for the last act of the play called The Enlightenment where the demigod Reason, who has killed his Father, marches on proudly to his tragic end? I’ve seen this play before acted out on Anglican stages off Broadway but performed to ever-shrinking audiences. The pope would do well to remind himself that many of the unwashed masses of the Catholic faithful have more of this common sense than he knows. I.e., the common sense that knows the Master’s voice and will follow it…right out of the church, if it comes to that.
Thus, when reason is presented with the divine revelation of the incarnate Lord Jesus Christ, it it liable to go off on its own and become a false religion. That religion can readily present hypotheses that are readily taken for gospel truth and the believers in them will cling to untested truths for fear of more uncertainty on their way to perdition. It reminds one of the recent “Covidian Movement”.
I’ve been saying this for some time, as has Jay Dyer and others: Pachamama, the “synod on synodality,” etc., are all natural outpourings of the Roman Catholic notion of Development of Doctrine. What is going on right now in Roman Catholicism is the obvious outpouring of doctrinal development, and in another 50 years it will evolve into something else.
Roman Catholicism circa 2023 looks nothing like Roman Catholicism circa 1940, and so on and do forth, and Roman Catholicism in 2050 will look nothing like it does now. Women’s ordination, acceptance of skittles, etc., are all but now inevitable and RC’s will eventually look something more like Anglicanism, it’s essentially already like that liturgically – you have “high church” Roman Catholics and “low church” Roman Catholics.
Soon (very soon) nothing will define it. It will stand for nothing. It will become the KMart of the religious world. The lowest common denominator.
I think this is why I’m so big on fighting back against what is going on in GOARCH.
You can’t just ignore these things and hope they go away, they never do and they always spread. Just look at Mainline Protestantism and what is currently happening in Roman Catholicism. I totally understand the mindset of seeing refuge in other jurisdictions, but, if everyone does that then they win. That’s part of my gripe with the Old Calendarists, in separating themselves from the Church, they separated any obstacles or push back that could have occurred, had they stayed and fought who knows what would have happened. They did the enemies a favor by “leaving town” so to speak.
If this rot is allowed to fester, it will spread. There is nothing preventing it from spreading to the OCA, Antiochians, even ROCOR at some point in the future. It needs to be confronted and stopped. Not just Fordham but also the “St. Phoebe deaconess” thing.
Monomakhos, Helleniscope, Orthodox Reflections, etc., are all doing the work that needs to be done in order to combat this. I am a very firm believer that if ya’ll were not speaking out then Elpi & Co would be in total, all-out apostasy. Believe it or not, he’s kept in check not just from the above but from the AOB.
I agree with you, Petros, as another member of the GOA. If those of us who disagree with the direction the GOA, all LEAVE the GOA, “then they win.” Why might one leave? Self preservation, sanity, protest, one’s very salvation. I get it – all of it – and am very sympathetic to it, because I’ve been on the verge many times. I’m still honing in on what “fighting back” means, but I do think it has something to do with me, plus a host of other people. Even withholding our joint relatively meager shekels (tithes and offerings) will not be noticed. Somehow the clergy need to come together in numbers and speak up – but their jobs are at stake. There are a few priests in the GOA (and other jurisdictions) who are speaking up. And if you are reading this – Thank you! Find a way to advise us what to do! Maybe in numbers they might be heard? I also agree with you it’s not going away.
One good thing that might come out of putting some distance between you and the GOA (perhaps by going to another jurisdiction for awhile) is it gives you some perspective. Sometimes we think the “grass in greener” when it’s not. It’s also possible to find out we’ve been stuck for a very long time. One way or another, it’s worth confronting. Where you go to Church is just too important not to feel like you’re where you belong.
I wonder: Does anyone in the GOA talk to their priests about these things? What do they say?
I agree with you on this Gail. Due to either relocation or travel I’ve belonged to or visited: OCA, ROCOR, GOA, Albanian, Antiochian, Serbian, Czech/Slovak parishes.
Having been to all those I have boomeranged back to a GOA parish. Why? Because Although Orthodoxy is perfect, the people within it are not. We are all sinners. Each jurisdiction has some sort of issue, no matter how big or small. The GOA doesn’t have a monopoly on scandal or ecumenism or anything like that.
Also, some of the best priests I’ve had have been in the GOA and if you find a priest that has a special attachment to the monasteries then you get a special flavor of Athonite spirituality that you don’t get other places and that is many times missing from mainstream Orthodoxy in America.
I certainly do and have. I’ve talked to several priests in the GOA and have talked to a Metropolitan as well when I was under him. None of them are on board. But, also, none of them know what to do. Though it may not visibly seem like they aren’t doing anything, I know for a fact that in my Metropolis when Archbishop Elpidophoros tried to push multiple spoons the Metropolitan straight up said no. This was also the case with the Metropolitan I was under during covid, he straight up said no. There are things that happen behind the scenes that we don’t know.
That’s why I’m starting to be convinced that the GOA isn’t going to be fixed by the bishops in the GOA, it’s going to be fixed by the other bishop of the other jurisdictions on the AOB, they’re the ones that have kept Elpidophoros in check.
YES, some of us DO talk to the GOA priests about this. Between myself and other likeminded people, we have talked to a good many. Most, by far, are staying true to the Orthodox teachings – but will not speak it publicly! It’s hushed, behind closed door discussions with individuals. Never from the pulpit, not from the Adult Ed classes. It’s too “political,” too “divisive.” People might “leave the church,” we will be considered “homophobic.” What about the “other” jurisdictions – is anything being said publicly? There are specific reasons I cant “shop around.” But I’m not closing any doors.
Thanks for the reply, Anna. So hoping things get better.
“Christian knowledge is derived from divine revelation…”
Precisely.
The face of God we have seen
is that revealed in Jesus Christ.
John 1:18
God, no one has ever seen;
the one real son,
the being in the bosom of the Father,
he made him known.
[My translation]
UPDATED: Pope Has “Uttered Plenty of Material
Heresies”: Former Vatican Doctrinal Head
https://onepeterfive.com/pope-has-uttered-plenty-of-material-heresies-former-vatican-doctrinal-head/?utm_source=1P5&utm_campaign=8f6fa47e64-1P5_DAILYRSS_EMAIL&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7ee622bcbb-8f6fa47e64-28305195&mc_cid=8f6fa47e64&mc_eid=0d1dd27b48
‘ In a new interview with LifeSite News, Cardinal Müller, the former head of the Holy Office said that Pope Francis “has already uttered plenty of material heresies,” but that since these are not formal heresies, Pope Francis has not lost his office. He affirmed the theory of St. Robert Bellarmine, whose opinion was that the pope would lose his office immediately upon becoming a formal heretic.
We have already commented at OnePeterFive to point out that Bellarmine’s view here (according to Bellarmine’s own estimation!) is merely a probable opinion among other opinions about this matter, and the Magisterium has not definitively resolved it. Bishop Schneider holds a different view than Bellarmine (and thus Müller), claiming that “Even in the case of a heretical pope he will not lose his office automatically and there is no body within the Church to declare him deposed because of heresy.” He further adds:
Therefore, we must follow the surer way (via tutior) and abstain from defending the mere opinion of theologians (even they be Saints like St. Robert Bellarmine), which says that a heretical pope automatically loses his office or can be deposed by the Church therefore.
But Müller went on to not only speak about material heresy:
Müller argued that through Francis’ implicit promotion and toleration of same-sex “blessings” and Holy Communion for the divorced and civilly “remarried,” the Pope is fostering a “heresy of practice.”
We are entering new territory, ladies and gentlemen. The former doctrinal head of the Vatican is accusing the Pope of a species – nay two species – of heresy. Not only that, he accuses his successor in the same office – Tucho “Heal Me with Your Mouth” Fernández – of something similar:
Müller noted a statement by Cardinal Victor Fernández, the new head of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, on allowing Communion for civilly “remarried” divorcees without living in full continence, calling the declaration a “borderline” case when it comes to formal heresy.
The German cardinal told LifeSiteNews that Fernández said the faithful “must accept this declaration by the Argentinian bishops and their interpretation [of Amoris Laetitia regarding the reception of Communion by divorcees] with religious obedience of mind and will.”
“That was already heretical, but it was not the Pope who said that.”
But Müller was not done! He even conceded that the validity of Pope Francis’s election is “difficult to judge” yet at the same time, the exercise of the office has “cured” any deficiency with the election.
As I said in my previous article, popes have become bishop of Rome in all sorts of ways (even dubious ways), and this idea that the exercise of the office has “cured it,” is certainly reasonable and valid. Becoming the bishop of Rome is not a Sacrament that gets invalidated without the proper form and matter. It’s literally an appointment to a city.
Müller says that it would do more harm than good to try to question the election at this point. Fair enough.
He ended his rampage of the crisis by saying that the Church has no authority to ordain women to a Sacramental diaconate or a “blessing” of homosexual couples. If he did, it would be “invalid” because it has already been “definitely decided” that the Church has no authority to do this.
Thus Müller, former head of the Holy Office. … ‘
Pope Francis has fired Bp. Strickland for opposing the pontiff’s radical agenda:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67390366
Pope Francis allows transgenderites to be baptized:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67366198
May God hasten the end of this vindictive heresiarch’s pontificate and return the Roman Catholic sect to the Orthodox Church and her Faith.
Bishop Strickland reacts to removal by Pope Francis:
‘I feel very much at peace’
https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/bishop-strickland-reacts-to-removal-by-pope-francis-i-feel-very-much-at-peace/?utm_source=featured_news&utm_campaign=usa
‘ … Bishop Strickland said:
“I stand by all the things that were listed as complaints against me.
I know I didn’t implement Traditionis Custodes
[the Pope Francis decree restricting the Traditional Latin Mass]
because I can’t starve out part of my flock.”
He added, “I’d do it the same way again.
I feel very much at peace in the Lord
and the Truth that He died for.” … ‘
Should there be union with this pope,
what would happen to our Liturgy…?
Don’t worry, Fatima said that Roman Catholics will get a BaZEd POpE who will fix everything and return Catholicism to its Middle Ages glory…and also Russia will convert to Roman Catholicism.
Orrr, Roman Catholicism is boned and is imploding and Francis, Benedict and JPII stacked the deck with Cardinals that will continue to push the new Vatican 2 religion and the next pope after Bergoglio will be even worse.
You get the outcome that you want and Francis has stacked the deck so that:
A) The next pope will be equal to or worse than Francis
B) If Francis officially promulgates heresy (at least heresy within the RC sect) then who exactly is going to bring a case against him.
Luckily for Francis, the way Roman Catholicism works means that the pope is above a council.
Rome will never be Orthodox again, it’s going to be individual Roman Catholics like myself and thousands of others becoming Orthodox that will convert “Rome”