Well, it looks like the Republicrats are going to join the Demoplicans in permanently altering these United States of America into a Third World slough of despond. According to Sen Pansy Graham (Scalawag-South Carolina), the Senate has 70 votes (probably 15 Republican, 55 Democrat) to report it out of the Senate. Word on the street is that the Gang of Eight Amnesty Atrocity will probably pass the House of Representatives even though an overwhelming majority of House Republicans oppose it. How will they do this? All they need is two dozen or so Chamber of Commerce bootlickers to join the America-skeptical Democrats and it’s “Por Espanol, oprima numero dos” forever.
This is one reason your humble correspondent can’t be an ideological libertarian but invariably defaults to the cultural conservative position. (I may have to join the local Libertarian Party here in Oklahoma but am inspecting all options. Either way, I’d get out of jury duty.) After all, Libertarians are more for this bill than not since they believe the hoodoo that America is a “propositional nation” rather than an historic one. In this light, just plug in any Third World refugee into the system, displace a native American, and voila! you have a new American who can just as easily work for Silicon Valley as he can intern on Capitol Hill! One unfortunately with no genetic or cultural ties to his fellow countrymen, no sense of history, and no sense of community. Just ask the families of the “comrades” who were shot to death by the “American” psychiatrist-cum-jihadist Maj Nidal Hassan, formerly of Ft Hood. His heart skips a beat when Palestine is mentioned; mine stirs whenever I hear “God Bless America.” His loyalties led him to murder my countrymen; mine are to my countrymen. Why stop there? The Brothers Tsarnaev were granted asylum and $100,000 in yearly benefits by Uncle Sugar. Didn’t that work out great? Do you think they know about the first thing about our War for Independence, who Ethan Allen was, or John Adams? Do you think they even cared?
The very idea that opening up the floodgates to illegal immigrants is profoundly depressing on so many levels. Besides the crime, the flooded ERs, the bloated Welfare rolls, and the continued fraying of our social fabric, the depression of working class wages will only accelerate. The days of high school graduates like my father getting decent jobs and supporting a stay-at-home wife and raising a family are over. Why in God’s holy Name do we want to turn a largely Protestant, Northern European country based on Enlightenment values into the Balkans? Is Chicago not violent enough for you?
Most depressing personally is the capitulation of the GOP to the Wall Street wing which is run by hostile elites which have no truck with the historic American nation. After years of being beaten senseless by the anti-American wing of the Democratic Party, I thought that Reagan had made things safe for middle American values. He did but only for awhile. Thanks to the Bushes and the other Hispanderers,that legacy is now in tatters. (He regretted signing Simpson-Mazzoli into law back in 86.)
One reason for my despondency is the realization that when Elites want something, no matter how bad, awful, destructive, or just plain evil, they’re going to find a way to get it. It doesn’t matter how bad things get, how many lies that have to be told, how many propaganda statements that have to be put out, they are going to get their way come hell or high water. What’s truly insane is that there’s no upside to the granting of amnesty to the 11 million already here and the tens of millions who want to come in after them. And this bill is nothing less than bad, awful, destructive and just plain evil. Even the CBO released numbers the other day which showed that the granting of amnesty will depress the wages of natives for another ten years. And this during the weakest, most anemic recovery since the Great Depression. And get this: during this period the wages of illegals will rise! How insane is that?
Look, I know why upper middle class white people like Mesoamericans and I’m willing to say it: not only do they work hard for peanuts but they’re very docile and you don’t have to tell them twice what to do. And unlike macho, American contractors, you don’t have to worry about them putting the moves on your womenfolk. I’ve seen this in action: I like to go to this Mexican-owned paneteria for coffee and pastries every now and then. This chain started in Mexico and it’s going on five generations now. The boss’s daughter is a tall, elegant, European-looking Latina who speaks perfect English and could easily enter a beauty pageant in South Dakota. When she comes into the establishment, she barks orders to the squat, little Indios working behind the counter. It’s all all “Si Senorita” on their part; no back-talk, just “do this, do that. Don’t like it? Hit the road Jacquita.” It’s like Gone With the Wind before the intermission. As many have noticed about Mexico, life is sweet the more melanin-impaired you are. (Don’t believe me? do a Google search on “Miss Mexico Pageants.” If you didn’t know any better you’d think that Mexico was located somewhere between France and Scandinavia.)
Bottom line? It doesn’t take a rocket-scientist to see that the legalization of 11,000,000 aliens is going to depress the wages of working-class blacks and whites and direct even more wealth to the likes of the Koch brothers, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sheldon Adelson. The hypocrisy is stunning: Adelson wants cheap Third World labor for his casinos in Las Vegas but wants nothing less than racial purity for Israel. Not for nothing is Israel called “the Jewish State.” He won’t even countenance the creation of an Arab “Palestine” living in peaceful coexistence with Israel. Israel gets to build a fence, arm it, patrol it with drones, and forbid illegal aliens already there from sending money back home. Why can they do all these things but we can’t?
So what excuse do the Democrats have? How does this party, formerly “The Party of the Working Man,” betray its core constituency, i.e. black people? That’s a tougher nut to crack. I’ll let Mickey Kaus, a Liberal Democrat figure it out for us. As for myself, I have a hunch that once Amnesty passes and our cities become even more unlivable, the Elites will allow Liberal Democrats like Rahm Emanuel to do what is necessary to “stabilize” the situation. I’ve come increasingly to the conclusion that what Republicans actually wish for (but can’t do for fear of being labeled racists or xenophobes) Democrats actually can do (since they’re the Party of Compassion). We’ll see.
In the meantime, I’ve got several fund-raising letters from the GOP on my desk awaiting action. One of them is from John Boehner and I’m going to send it back to him attached to a brick. And if we really do get Amnesty, then I’m going to get really angry.
Source: Daily Caller | Mickey Kaus
In 2007, John McCain’s “comprehensive” immigrant-legalization bill failed after opponents flooded the Senate with calls, shutting down the switchboard. Despite considerable press hype, the bill didn’t even muster a majority on the crucial cloture vote.
It won’t be that easy this time. For one thing, they have a better switchboard, I’m told. For another, the Republican consultants–e.g. Gillespie, Rove–who helped Mitt Romney lose the 2012 election have taken their own failure as an excuse to push what they’ve wanted all along–a business-pleasing immigration policy guaranteeing a supply of inexpensive labor from abroad and a stream of campaign donations to pay Republican consultants. It beats rethinking the rest of the GOP agenda.
In fact, despite all the talk of polarization and Citizens United, the big money in the immigration fight almost unanimously favors a bipartisan, legalization-first bill. Kochs included. The GOP donor class is asserting itself, Ross Douthat has noted. It’s spotted what it thinks is an intersection of crude self-interest, high-minded tolerance, partisan strategy and libertarian philosophy.
One of the more influential members of this “donorist” class is Rupert Murdoch, which means that FOX News has for all intents and purposes switched sides, giving immigration “comprehensivists” a monopoly in the MSM–five networks to none. As goes Murdoch, so goes Hannity.
If you are a Republican who worries that a flood of low-skilled immigrants would drive down wages and make America an uglier place, where the rich have cheap servants but even diligent unskilled work doesn’t afford a life of dignity–well, we’re sorry. We’ve booked our Republican for the panel this week–Senator McCain! A member of the famous Gang of 8! He always puts on a good show, don’t you agree? (If you are a Democrat who worries about immigration and low wages, you probably don’t exist, and certainly don’t hold elective office. In 2007, populist Dems like Senator Byron Dorgan still walked the halls. Now they’ve been driven out–or underground–by the lure of ethnic identity politics).
Worst of all are distractions that weren’t around in 2007. Probably through sheer bad luck, a series of dramatic scandals has captured the attention of both the press (which would ordinarily be celebrating the Gang of Eight’s epic achievement) and conservatives, who would ordinarily be kicking up a fuss. The distraction factor applies with special force to right-wing talk radio hosts, who instead of mobilizing opposition are pontificating in a daze of either overconfidence (i.e., ‘Democrats want this bill to fail’) or fatalism.You’d think Rush Limbaugh–a rare non-Fox conservative star, who understands what is at stake– might have a good deal of time to spend on the Gang of 8 bill the day before its first test vote in the Senate. You would be wrong. Rush talked mainly about the NSA.
If the conservative public were paying attention, the flaws and crude deceptions of the Schumer-Rubio bill would be common knowledge. They are so obvious, especially in the border enforcement area, that even Sen. Rubio pretends to be dissatisfied with his own bill. Byron York reports that many conservatives are shocked when they learn that Rubio’s bill doesn’t secure the border before legalization. It doesn’t! ”First comes the legalization,” as Rubio boasted yesterday. That’s been obvious for months, but now it’s news. (The border security requirements, themselves evanescent, would only prevent legalized illegals from moving to upgrade from legal status to getting green cards and citizenship.)
It’s time to wake up! Conservatives–while you are (rightly) excited about NSA snooping and partisan IRS corruption, the Congress is about to change America in a more profound, permanent way right under your noses. In the process it will hand President Obama the major second term achievement that will help him overcome the very scandals that are distracting you–or, rather, make his survival or re-ascendance unimportant. He will have won. Democrats will have shaped the future electorate to their own liking. They’ll have transformed what America is.
Please forget about Benghazi and Cincinnati and Edward Snowden’s girlfriend for a minute and pay attention to the main event.
You have one weapon in your arsenal that can trump the big money behind the Gang of 8 bill (S.744). That weapon is fear. It’s not as if the Republican elite has suddenly been persuaded that an amnesty-first immigration bill is a good idea, after all. They’ve always preferred amnesty. They were just too scared to pursue it. What stopped them was the prospect of swift retribution from the electorate, not limited to the Republican primary electorate.
This fear hasn’t disappeared. The elites were scared of voters before and they can be scared again. This applies to red state Democrats like Mark Pryor and primary-able Republicans like Lisa Murkowski. It applies to fence-sitters like Lamar Alexander. It even applies to those like Kelly Ayotte who have now committed to supporting instant legalization (despite having campaigned against it). If voters now make their displeasure with Ayotte known–well, politicians at the top have a way of backtracking from unpopular stands. That’s how they got to the top. At the very least Ayotte’s difficulties would serve as a cautionary example to others.
There will probably be several big votes–most likely on a House-Senate conference bill–before any amnesty can become law. Speaker Boehner will have to make a crucial decision on whether to break the “Hastert Rule” and try to pass a bill in the teeth of his own caucus’ strongly held views. In every case, fear will be the crucial factor. If Senators fear losing their office if a bill becoming law–and they tend to be highly risk-aware–it often has a way of dying without any fingerprints on it (which is arguably what happened in 2007).
There’s a list of Senate phone numbers and emails here. Numbers USA has a handy page that lets you send a fax here. The Capitol switchboard is 202 224-3121.
Ignore the f—ing scandals for a few days and save the country from Chuck Schumer.
Well, I read somewhere that someone who moved to Texas in the early 1980’s was unable to get a construction job since an illegal immigrant got that job, so it an old problem.The problem is not with the politicians only its also unfortunately a lot of people in many states hiring day labors to do garden work at home that they could do themselves. There is already a guest worker program for agricultural, farmers don’t have to hire illegal immigrants they just don’t like the rules of the guest worker program. Now, one can see people that make a lot less than the Us usually between a 1.00 to 3.00 per hr would want to come to the US and use someone’s social security card but the politicians, business people and citizens that have use illegal immigrants to do jobs are also at fault. Also, Mexico could do better since its per capita is the same as Russia but there is billions of money being sent home from workers in the states.
As for Hispanic pandering, the National Chairman of the Republican Party went out to get the Hispanic vote in Santa Ana Ca. Republicans usually write off California and Hispanics and Asians and Blacks vote in California even less than whites for Republicans. Santa Ana Ca helped way back in 1996 Loretta Sanchez a Democratic to defeat Bob Dornan for Congressman as the Demographics of the area changed. Yet, the Republicans that insistence that California is going the way of Greece, leadership runs out to Santa Ana Ca.
Most depressing personally is the capitulation of the GOP to the Wall Street wing which is run by hostile elites which have no truck with the historic American nation. After years of being beaten senseless by the anti-American wing of the Democratic Party, I thought that Reagan had made things safe for middle American values. He did but only for awhile. Thanks to the Bushes and the other Hispanderers,that legacy is now in tatters. (He regretted signing Simpson-Mazzoli into law back in 86.)
This is also Reagan’s problem, business interest in the farm area of California, Kern and Fresno were big donors. Also, business interest in LA, Orange and San Diego. Hotels in Anaheim wanted it easier to get maids without having to rise the wages.
George –
How do we deport 11 million people? I hear your cultural ramifications if they are amnestied, what will be the ramification if we force them out and then the media paints this into a ‘trail of tears’ scenario?
While I’d like to see justice in this case and tell these people to go bye-bye, the only solution, the way I see it, is to give those people working documents and then make them get in line with everyone else seeking entrance. Not special treatment, but in the same line as everyone else. You filter folks out from there. Some will make it in, some won’t. Besides, a great deal of these people are harder workers and more law abiding than a great deal of our citizens.
What I’d like to see is something in a bill that will keep this from happening again. Boarder security guarantee prior to any form of revision of law.
FWIW, not all Libertarians are for ‘amnesty’ – I think you need a little less Ann Coulter in your life.
Blessed Pentecost.
Please.
What a incredibly baseless assertion. Check out the statistics of our prison population. Thirty percent or so of the prison population consists of illegal aliens, for criminal activity, not immigration violations. This is beside the fact that breaking our laws to come or stay past the visa limitations makes these people LAWBREAKERS by definition!!! Law abiding my Aunt Fanny!! Do you have any idea what the word means????
We have an open corridor for terrorists and others who have absolutely NO interest in assimilating into this country. Have you noticed what has been happening outside of Paris? How about the impact of illegals in Sweden? You like burning cars?? You like areas where police and other first responders dare not go? You like Shari’a law? The beating of women?
How about the areas in Texas, Arizona and other border states where the drug dealers roam with impunity, and our government simply puts up signs that say the areas are no longer safe to travel? How would you like to own a ranch in that area? Find your cattle slaughtered by illegals travelling across your land, leaving most of the carcass to rot? Garbage all over the place?
Sorry Macedoniandeacon, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
Maybe you could use a little more Mark Levin.
And you base your assertion on my claim that I want a secure boarder? Have you actually read what I wrote, or are your emotions getting the best out of you? Like I said, Ann Coulter’s word isn’t our bedrock on this. Heck anyone can TALK like a hard ass.
Making the 11 million that are already in get back in the regular line to face the scrutiny of the system isn’t going to make the border any more or less secure. But it actually might be the right thing to do.
If anything it’s calming a potential disaster that if we let our emotions get the best of us will ensure that another conservative will never win another Presidential election again. Is that what we want? Piling them up and shipping them out will sure make us feel tough, until they come back over eventually because we haven’t the slightest on how to secure the damn lines.
Fence the entire country and then have drones roam the coastlines and the Mexican and Canadian borders. I’m all for it. But make sure it’s enforced so that in 10 years we don’t have to face another 11 million.
The problem is that the only bill (Rand Paul’s bill) put out there that would enforce security was defeated, so my ‘not knowing what I’m talking about’ is not the problem our “stone-less” politicians are, coupled with emotionalists who completely trample our Constitution out of fear or to prove a point. Exactly like those folks who think the entire NSA policy is actually good for national security.
The ‘hard working folks in jail’ aren’t the one’s that put Obama over the top in the last elections, it was the ‘hard workers’ that were promised benny’s and who milk the system that did. Like I said. I’ll take a hard working Mexican worker who is actually paying his taxes and not living off the system (or using it temporarily) over those folks any day. Not all of them are in jail. And believe you me, the system is definitely tilted against minorities when it comes to jail time. Just compare recreational drug use sentencing between whites and blacks. Equal use, but mostly blacks are in jail – and with terms comparable to murderers to boot! Racism is indeed manipulated by libs, but it’s not completely eradicated.
For what it’s worth, I live in Arizona. Where do you live?
PS If I’m not mistaken. All of the terrorists who have cause most havoc and death in this country have either been legally documented, or home grown. So please spare me the extra information on terror – there is plenty out there to keep us informed about it, not to mention a President who is listening in. It is exactly this sort of fear that is allowing this administration and the past ones to slowing destroy our freedoms. Who are the terrorists?? “I have seen the enemy and it is ….
And you base your assertion on my claim that I want a secure boarder? Have you actually read what I wrote, or are your emotions getting the best out of you? Like I said, Ann Coulter’s word isn’t our bedrock on this.
Keeping the 11 million that are already in from getting in the big boy line to face the scrutiny of the system and/or deporting them and calling it “operation I kicked your illegal ass” isn’t going to make the border any more or less secure. It’s not going to eradicate terrorism, or even save us from sharia. Heck, the NSA is implementing a nice USofA version of it already – we don’t need the Muslims er uh Asians/Mexicans??? to do it for us.
However, allowing these 11 mill to get back in line may actually be the right thing to do in the long run. The system will scrutinize them and not all of them will receive papers. Heck most of them won’t. But this way you’re not further alienating a race (or two or three) of people, which would ensure that a conservative – free marketer will never win another presidential election. Is this our end game? Surely, it’s not mine.
My “ignorance of the situation” has nothing to do with it – albeit I am from Arizona. Where are you from? The way I see it, the one bill that had any chance of doing just what we need – secure the border and enforce it, was defeated. Why? Because our politicians are stone-less. But anyone can talk like a hard ass, you don’t need me to do this … but if we actually enforce the border then we can deport to your hearts’ desire. Heck, I’ll even make a weekly trip to the border when they do and sing like “Everlast” and it won’t be a political debacle at that point.
I for one do not want to live in fear any longer. And the actual tyranny – our government – is banking that I do. I know that there is terrorism, I saw it with my own eyes while abroad. I know that Islam is not a religion of peace. I know plenty about folks who refuse to play the good citizen. But I also know that most of the deadliest attacks on our soil in the last twenty years have been by documented individuals or home grown terrorists. And this administration is doing a lovely job of taking away our freedoms so these that we have built up in our minds don’t have to. They’re banking on this fear that you so well articulate. “I have seen the enemy and it is …. “
MR, I don’t disagree with any of your points. What many of us are so upset about is that for all the talk of border enforcement, forcing them to get back in line, greater scrutiny, etc, is that none of this is really in the cards. Our elites don’t really want it, they just want the cheap labor. We are promised all sorts of things but will never get it.
There are other problems as well:
1. there is no guarantee that the President will enforce any provisions of the Law, and
2. there is every likelihood that a federal judge will strike down portions of it, or the Supreme Court will strike it all down.
These are very real, valid fears based on much historical precedent.
You should really stop labeling yourselves a “Christian” blog. You are nothing but right wing shills and that ideology has as much to do with Christianity as Islam.
Here’s the thing , Scott. If you are a Christian, if you believe what the Nicean/Constantinopolitan creed says, if you believe the historical Churches teachings are the teachings of Christ, then you will find more in common with the right wing than the left, The left says the right words, but the results of their policies are anti-poor, anti-minority and anti-life. There are nihilists and materialists an the right wing (which is why many people think there is no difference between republicans and democrats), but that is the basic philosophy of the left. On the right, there is still room to disagree with the Republican elite, and even beat them. The Left is now pretty much run by the Democratic elite and dissent is only allowed in specific cases where an issue may cost a democrat politician the election if he supports the party line.
This is a Christian blog, but the Christian position on many issues is anathema the the current left wing. For instance, the illegal alien issue (I see no reason to surrender the language here to the left) has an obvious solution. BORDER SECURITY first and PROSECUTION of those hiring illegal aliens. The problem is that too many people put profit and low wages over the law so the law has been ignored. The solution of those invested in this system of low wages? Pass more laws! Reform the system! Convince people something is being done! The old laws weren’t enforced. What makes you think the new ones will?
The Democratic elite, worshipping power, see this as a way to perpetuate their power through getting more votes. They are the masters of divide and conquer (identity politics) but there record indicates they will use fear to create a new Hispanic voting block.
Many people see perpetuating the current system as a way to make more money, even though it creates an underclass. Mexico sees the current system as a way to export their poorer people and import money so the Mexican elite can enjoy the life they have without having to worry to much about rebellions or creating a better Mexico for all Mexicans. None of these motivations are Christian.
Now, the loyal oppositions motivations. The left will cry racism and without a doubt there are a few, but what isn’t racist about a system that imports brown skinned people and pays them crappy wages in conditions that may be little better than slavery because they live in fear of immigration and can’t complain? The current system is completely racist. Most people wanting to stop as much illegal immigration as possible are worried about security and fairness. They aren’t anti immigrant, they are anti-illegal immigrant. Yes, the economy may actually take a hit if pseudo-slave labor is eliminated, but we aren’t motivated by money here. Exactly which of these motivations is unchristian?
Mr Harrington, thank you for this stirring and eloquent defense. I couldn’t have said it better. Even though my contempt for the GOP grows by the day in exponential fashion, the fact of the matter is as you state: the Left is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Nihilists.
The list is endless: libertinism, licentiousness, irresponsibility, indolence, abortion on demand, the confiscation of guns, etc, are all hallmarks of the Left. And you are right: racism is what drives their need for the creation of a new helot underclass.
You touch on something else regarding the racism of the Castillian elite in Mexico, how the export of their poor alleviates their need to clean things up and make Mexico a more equitable place. The question is, what’s in it for our elites (besides the tramping down of middle and working-class white and black wages? Is it possible that our elite are tied in economically with Mexico’s elite in intricate financial schemes?
Consider this: Carlos Slim, the world’s richest man, bailed out The New York Times. He owns 11% of it. He made much of his money by being a monopolist of the Mexican telecom industry. As we know from the NSA leaks, one wonders how much he knows about ordinary people and their business transactions.
Scott:
Instead of breaking out the childish and intellectually illiberal rhetoric against those with whom you disagree, you would do well to learn more about the true philosophical differences between the two major political visions. Conservatism and Libertarianism have venerable and respectable intellectual patrimonies. It is doubtful that anything you have learned about them in college, if the subject has even been breached, has been at all dispassionate, comprehensive or fair. There are fashions in thought, and Stalinism is back in vogue right now, especially on campus.
You could, for example, read economist Thomas Sowell’s book, “A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles.” What Professor Sowell describes as the Constrained, or Tragic, Vision–man is flawed, self-idolatrous, and not inherently perfectable—is the essential worldview of America’s Founding Fathers. Oddly enough, it is also the worldview of Christianity. The ‘Unconstrained Vision; i.e. Leftism, on the other hand, believes in the ability of human reason to solve all problems and the ultimate perfectability of man and society—utopianism. From the point of view of Christianity, such a vision is both tragic and laughable.
Christians who identify politically with the Left hold a logically inconsistent view of the world. Thus, we find so-called “Liberation Theologists” and “Social Justice” Catholics who are oblivious to the fact that Marxism and Christianity are 180 degrees out of phase, regardless of their superficial commonalities.
How you cannot see the moral danger inherent in passing sweeping legislation without debate, analysis, or public participation is beyond my comprehension. A society that abandons the rule of law is a doomed society. It is the mark of a tyranny. This law will, at one fell swoop, destroy America’s two-party system and disenfranchise almost half the country! In addition, it will force the wage rate at the lower end of the economy downward, hurting and impoverishing unskilled and low-income Americans who are having deep financial trouble already. I could go on to describe other ‘unintended’, but quite foreseeable, consequences, but I won’t. Rest assured, none of them promote the betterment of our fellow citizens. And can a country that fails to control and protect its borders be, in any sense, a sovereign country? I don’t think so.
You don’t know enough about the dimension of the problem to be calling others un-Christian or equating their opinions with Islam. Shame.
Christianity has no political party and to try to marry your chosen political party to Christianity is about as blasphemous as you can get. I’ll spare you the examples; this is a classic discussion; both lose.
At least Scott had the cajones to state his name to his article.
No one here ever said it did. On the other hand, it is clear that no conscientious Christian can be a member of a political party that mandates atheism as a central tenet (Communism) or racial extermination on the other (Nazism). That leaves a lot of leeway in between. To my mind, the nihilism that has took over the Democrat Party in the 70s made it increasingly difficult for me to remain in it. The stupidity of the Republican Party will probably cause me to leave it as well.
George,
Both Communism and Nazism are socialist. I don’t see a lot of leeway between.
Daniel: Why don’t you read the book I suggested before you start disparaging me? Professor Sowell is no George Lakoff. He does not suggest that the Constrained vision is necessarily Christian—I do. People who believe mankind in fundamentally flawed (fallen) build a different society from those who believe man is capable of creating his own heaven on earth. They design legislation using a different set of fundamental assumptions.
The revolutionaries from England, the Founding Fathers, for example, were very pessimistic about human nature and constructed a government—a republic–with laws to protect the individual from the state. For more than 200 years, it was the greatest government on earth. The French revolutionaries, inebriated by the romantic and irrational view of man promoted by that charlatan Rousseau, created the Commune, compulsory conformity and the Terror. Mankind being what it is, that government didn’t last too long.
Christianity is not necessarily politically conservative, but it conforms more closely to the Constrained vision as Sowell presents it. That’s all I’m suggesting. Is that really blasphemy?
Today, the American republic is collapsing because the sons of Rousseau— Marxists like Obama—are dismantling it in hopes of replacing it with a socialist state, a new heaven on earth based on hubris and a totally misguided moral vision. Ask the 100 million plus victims of the Left in the last century how that kind of government worked out for them. Mass murder is about as un-Christian as I can concieve. As it is, American will have to suffer while the Left relieves us of all our God-given rights. You can keep Obama, if you want. I won’t fight you.
Thanks, but the NSA probably already knows my name. What are you going to do if you know it—ring my doorbell and run? You should try lowering your dudgeon a bit.
Mr. Fall,
I don’t quite understand why you are so impassioned about people using their real name on this site? If the moderator of the site has no issue with people using monikers other than their name, why do you use it to simply disregard their comments?
Using one’s name does not lend it any more credibility nor make their comments any more true. It seems to be rather simplistic on your part and a somewhat thin excuse not to engage the merits of the words written which are obviously done so by a human being made in the Image and Likeness of God.
Todd Matichan
Using one’s real name, however, often takes some of the vitriol and ad-hominem qualities out of posts on controversial subjects. But I have noticed that this general rule does not obtain here!
Mr. Mortiss,
In general, I would agree. The implication being that if one uses their “real” name, then one can be held legally accountable. The truth is, if one doesn’t fear God first and fore most, who is one going to fear? Most of the posters on this forum claim to be Christians of one variety or another at least nominally. Everyone is fallen, but with God’s help, we are all striving towards the purification of our souls. If we don’t fear God who is “every where present and fills all things” do we imagine some punk anonymous or not is going to fear a “law” put in force by any society? Tsarnaev brothers anyone?
The ad-hominem and vitriol is a reflection of our passions. What is encouraging to me and gives me hope is that we also ask forgiveness from one another. It would be better if we never sinned at all, but with God’s help, someday….
One of the most inane arguments ever said on my blog was the ones hurled at OCAT, et al because they chose to be anonymous. It was a specious argument then, it remains so today.
I could easily say my name is Daniel E. Fall, George Michalopulos, M. Stankovich, Tim R. Mortiss or Stan Pappas. Not a single one of you has a way of verifying the veracity of who I claim to be. The argument that a name gives credence to an argument is a fallacy.
An argument can be verified as reasonable or not by the information that it contains and it’s presentation. The information in the argument can be checked against other independent resources that are publicly available and has not thing one to do with the presenter. Failure to check out an argument indicates laziness and a desire to embrace a false teaching/thinking/lies. Remember Eve in Paradise? She could of told the serpent to shut up. She could of run to Adam and told him what the serpent told her and Adam would have fixed everything and put her in her place. She WANTED to believe the serpent.
So, Mr. Fall – enough baloney all ready. You want to have a discussion. Fine. You want to have a debate. Fine. However, address the issues. Don’t pull the immature baloney about a name. Cause brotha’ like the bard wrote “a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.”
Nit, the whole context of the raises some interesting possibilities: A slight correction: “That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet”
And let us not forget the tragedy that came of the unwillingness on the part of all in Romeo and Juliet to tell the truth until it was too late and persist in enmity: “Capulet! Montague! see what a scourge is laid upon thy hate that heaven doth find means to kill thy joys with love…All are punished”
They beheaded the two Orthodox Bishops. Did anyone see the video? My God! We are stuck between the fanatical muslims and the fanatical secularists. May God have mercy on us all.
Peter
According to what I have been able to find, it’s Fr. Francois Murad, a Syrian Catholic priest, and two assistants. Said to be by Chechen gunmen in the Sunni forces.
Not, as far as I can tell now, the two bishops.
Another example of “Chechens acting Checheny.”
Holy martyrs pray for us!
Apparently it was not the bishops but a young monastic priest and two assistants.
These are the kind and peaceful folk our tax dollars are supporting.
I received this on facebook. I think that all Americans should protest the policies of the Obama administration that provides support and arms to the people who are killing Orthodox Christians in Syria. His government supported a Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt. The U.S. helped liberate the people of Libya and got Bengazi in return. How is it in our national interest to support the spread of Islamic militancy? Have we forgotten 9/11 or Boston?
On 27 June 2013 and just moments after Patriarch John X (Yazigi) of Antioch and All The East passed by a narrow street in the mostly Christian dominated Bab Touma neighborhood in Damascus heading towards Greek Orthodox Virgin Mary church, as some locals reported, a bombing occurred, initially reported as a suicide bomber before further investigation indicated to a mortar shell and after obtaining footage from a CCTV placed on one of the shops from the targeted location it was confirmed to be a mortar shell that missed the patriarch in moments but didn’t miss 4 civilians whom were killed a number of others injured, not to mention the destruction in properties.
The assassination attempt took place more than 2 months after the kidnapping of Patriarch’s brother Boulous Yazigi, Archbishop the Greek Orthodox Church of Aleppo with Syriac Orthodox bishop Yuhanna Ibrahim of Aleppo whom were kidnapped in Aleppo on April 22, 2013 by a foreign death squad with fate unknown till this moment despite the confirmation of US backed and formed Qatari based Coalition of Syrian Oppositions abroad that they’re in contact with the kidnapping group and working on their releas
Peter do you have a link to the video please?
Whoever it was that they beheaded…Lord, have mercy on them.
Mr. Bauman,
Thank you for the correction and the context 🙂
‘Tis but thy name that is my enemy – My point precisely.
We have preconceived notions and expectations of what we imagine people should be because of labels, tags, and names. In reality. What our comprehension of these “names” are is ever changing because our experience is ever changing.
For example: The way any person views their parents when they are two years old is not the same as how they view their parents when they are 10, or 15, or 20, or 30 or 70. Even after our parents have died, our perceptions of them change. Not because they change, but because we change. How we understand ourselves change.
What is a name? It is a series of letters which create a distinct sound which are assigned to specific persons, objects or places and act as unique identifiers to facilitate common communication within a community and society.
The desire to know my legal name is not a requirement to comprehend whether or not I am telling the truth, it is a matter of curiosity. It is an issue of passion. I’m not prone to feed that beast. No good can possibly come of it. You might as well ask me my shoe size, social security number and blood type while you are at it as well as for a DNA sample.
Nit, as for Tim R. Mortiss, it’s copyrighted!
Drats! The great ones always are.
I should hasten to say that I have borrowed it myself. It arises from William Dunbar’s “Lament for the Makers”, via Jack Vance.
http://www.poets.org/m/dsp_poem.php?prmMID=22412
Here are a couple verses from Vance’s jolly take:
Drinking whisky by the peg,
Singing songs of drunken glee.
I thought to swallow half a keg
But Tim R. Mortiss degurgled me.
Not precisely comme il faut,
To practice frank polygamy;
I might have practiced, even so.
But Tim R. Mortiss disturgled me.
….and so on….
I recognized it was a “joke” name even before Mr. Bauman pointed it out, but I didn’t know it had been used in a poem. I figured why ruin a perfectly good secret identity?
Some other “great” identities though not quite so subtle courtesy of:
the Romans
I thought it a reference to the Latin prayers for the dead.
That is the ultimate source, Mr. Bauman, but William Dunbar’s old poem is what inspired the other. Here are a few verses (it’s old Scots English); it’s a very sobering poem (the Feynd is slee, indeed):
I that in heill was and gladness
Am trublit now with great sickness
And feblit with infirmitie:
Timor Mortis conturbat me.
Our plesance here is all vain glory,
This fals world is but transitory,
The flesh is bruckle, the Feynd is slee:
Timor Mortis conturbat me.
The state of man does change and vary,
Now sound. now sick, now blyth, now sary,
Now dansand mirry, now like to die:
Timor Mortis conturbat me.
No state in Erd here standis sicker;
As with the wynd wavis the wicker
So wannis this world’s vanitie:
Timor Mortis conturbat me.
Unto the Death gods all Estatis,
Princis, Prelattis, and Potestatis,
Baith rich and poor of all degree:
Timor Mortis conturbat me.
nit picker,
I would caution you that saying you are M. Stankovich would drastically potentiate your risk for choking on your own effluence. Consider yourself warned.
Dr. S –
I’ve been in much worse situations I am certain, but thank you for the warning.
All I can do is shake my head and extend a hearty congratulations to John Dewey whose tireless efforts have succeeded in transforming the American people into the most ignorant and docile serfs in modern history – into a people who, whether Democrat or Republican leaning, mindlessly rally to the call of their overlords.
Fruit picker comes in and takes job away of computer engineer and “real American”. What a horrible situation.
What is your solution?? Let employers keep paying them “under the table” to avoid taxes, social security, worker comp. etc etc. If there is no work they will not come. Go after the ones that hire “illegals”.
Border security is a farce. All of the northern border is wide open and many Asians come through that way from Canada. But we are doubling the border guards down south.
If they built higher fences they bring taller ladders, or dig tunnels, or fly in, or go up the coast with a fisherman, in California.
I don’t know if it is just me or not but this sounds like a tea party diatribe without much thought. Would do you suggest?
Um. This sounds likeDdemocratic diatribe without thought. Border security is currently a farce, but it is the responsibility of the Federal government. It can and must be improved, but they, evidently have other priorities. And nope, Mexican fruit pickers aren’t taking jobs away from legal computer engineers from India. See the problem here isn’t immigration, its having a basket case country to the south and a wide open border. Don’t worry about the Canadian border. They have had fiscally reasonable policies up there for the past few years. Once Obamacare actually takes effect, it will be Canada worrying about people sneaking over their southern border.
So Bill, border security has to have another component. Streamlined ways of issuing green cards and tracking who has them and what they are up to as well as severe consequences for those who hire illegal aliens. It can be done, it has to be done. It probably won’t be. I have no faith in this whole political process. What makes anyone think that passing new laws will change anything when the old laws aren’t enforced to begin with? The Democrats must be torn though. They want all these people to become a new voting block, but their financial backers don’t really want new citizens paying taxes, using benefits, and earning at least minimum wage. They want cheap labor. Who do you think will win there?
Fruit picker comes in and takes job away of computer engineer and “real American”. What a horrible situation.
What is your solution?? Let employers keep paying them “under the table” to avoid taxes, social security, worker comp. etc etc. If there is no work they will not come. Go after the ones that hire “illegals”.
Border security is a farce. All of the northern border is wide open and many Asians come through that way from Canada. And we are doubling the border guards down south.
If they built higher fences they bring taller ladders, or dig tunnels, or fly in, or go up the coast with a fisherman, in California.
I don’t know if it is just me or not but this sounds like a tea party diatribe without much thought. what do you suggest—simply do nothing.?
Border security is not a farce. The Israelis have a fence across the Sinai and it’s foolproof. It’s just that our Elites don’t want to secure the border. If we could keep the Manhattan Project a secret during WWII we could enforce our laws.
As for deportation, Pres Eisenhower deported 1,000,000 aliens during “Operation Wetback” back in the mid-50s. This was a time when the US had far more primitive technology than we do now.
No, I don’t suggest we “do nothing.” Quite the opposite: 1) Enforce the border, 2) punish employers who hire illegals, and 3) deport illegals. If they’ve been here for say, 10 years, make them pay a fine then send them to the back of the line to get a visa.
PRESENT border security IS a farce, if you can’t keep them from coming in. We are unable to keep them from coming in. What about the northern border with Canada. More asians coming in all the time. They just walk on over. It is not only Mexicans, in fact they are the minority right now. Asian immigrants cost the schools big money. The Israelis fence would work if only they would stop digging tunnels—don’t your read the papers??
The only way to stop them is not to provide jobs. If there are no jobs they will not come. Go after the employers. If you want to deport all of them it will defeat the purpose of registering them collecting income tax, ss tax, unemployment ins etc. If you send them back they just come in again. If they are “out in the open” then you can more easiiy have them pay taxes. You scheme will just drive them underground again, literally and figuratively.
Pres Eisenhower’s goal was to deport 1million. That was a goal and not an accomplishment.
Would you suggest that we contract with Greyhound to deport 11 million? Completely dumb idea and impractical.
Present border security is a farce because the powers-that-be have no intention of enforcing the existing laws.
Yes, the illegals do dig tunnels to get into Israel. And Israel stops the vast majority of them from getting in. That’s because they want to protect their sovereignty (read: physical safety of their citizens). Our Elites don’t give a rat’s ass. They live in gated communities or high-rises.
I know that Hispanics aren’t the only illegals coming in. Stop ’em all I say. Enforce the laws equitably.
I get it George. I’m almost with you on this one. But, imagine if we labeled something ‘operation wetback’ today?
I’m going to sound like a Dr. Paul’s greatest hits, broken record, but I think Sen. Rand Paul has the best idea on how to handle this. His plan actually forces the government to secure the borders prior to allowing illegals back in line. Notice I said, back in line, not an open door and a goodie bag to boot, like some would like to do.
Folks who didn’t follow the rules to get in should be forced to pay their dues and shouldn’t get special treatment. That’s not the Christian thing to do. However, what is Christian is to recognize that there is a huge industry that cajoles these folks across the border with a false promise. (not to mention our trade policies totally impoverish their own nations) It’s not entirely their fault. I think a fence, rule of law, and congress revisiting the border every year to affirm that it is secure is a fair trade for a shot to immigrate like everyone else. Some of them may not make it and rightly so.
But to our friends who think ‘door mat equals Christian’ you need to revisit some things in life.
The reason I mentioned Eisenhower’s plan was because that’s what it was called and I wanted to show people how confident we were about the plain illegality of it all to use that term.
I wouldn’t use it today if you made me Dictator. Call it Operation Goldilocks if you want. Just do the same thing.
I agree with you that employers (aka “Elites,” Chamber-of-Commerce Bigwigs,” what have you) are the driving force behind this. It would indeed be unchristian to only punish the aliens while not going after the demand. That’s why police arrest the patrons of prostitutes as well as the prostitutes.
Speaking of fixing, ROCOR’s website is reporting that the candle works at Holy Cross Monastery in Wayne, WV burned to the ground this morning, also destroying the skete housing the Convent of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary.. Reports are that nobody was seriously hurt, but Nun Theodora escaped with only the clothes on her back, and the monastery lost an important source of income. They’re in need of both monetary and material help.
http://www.eadiocese.org/News/2013/june/hcmfire.en.htm
Lord have mercy! Do you have an address to send donations?
Donations to rebuild the convent and candle factory can be accepted online, or people may send a check by mail. Just follow this link to process donations by credit card or Paypal.
https://store.holycross-hermitage.com/catalog/donate
The site says donors can mark their checks “Convent Rebuilding Fund” and mail to:
Hermitage of the Holy Cross
Attn: Gift Shop
505 Holy Cross Road
Wayne, WV 25570-5403
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sgjC_sdbDc&feature=share&list=PLjSOZQqHxpi8upX1tpoM6EV0M0gJ_-4df
George is right, when the economy slowed down and both Bush and Obama were forced to deport some with crimmial backgrounds, a milion went home and immirgation slowed. In fact, immirgation has shifted to Asians. Maybe, one reason why both Parties are pushing the bill thru to keep the Hispanic flow and get more Asians for tech jobs. Also, robots can be developed to do more farmwork or janior work or maid work or one can hire more high school kids or college kids to do fast food. Most construcation jobs the native born will do, its that its a litle cheaper to hire illegal immirgants for the construcation jobs.
What is your solution?? Let employers keep paying them “under the table” to avoid taxes, social security, worker comp. etc etc. If there is no work they will not come. Go after the ones that hire “illegals”.
Well, when Reagan legalized them many preferred day labor which avoids taxes and paying social security. One Mexican immirgant stated why he no longer work for a factory because he paid taxes. By the way, the ACLU, took the side of Day Labors against business in which they solict their work since the ACLU stated the day labors had a right to solict their work on a sidewalk. Also, the bill states that currently there is no way of enforcing workplace employment at the level that prevents illegal immirgantion so they will continue to work in the regular market or the underground day labor market.
Also, a report stated that wages among the low skilled might be depressed for a decade. People here are for the working man, so why legalized millions and depressed wages.
PRESENT border security IS a farce, if you can’t keep them from coming in. We are unable to keep them from coming in. What about the northern border with Canada. More asians coming in all the time. They just walk on over. It is not only Mexicans, in fact they are the minority right now. Asian immigrants cost the schools big money. The Israelis fence would work if only they would stop digging tunnels—don’t your read the papers??
You must be in Canada or the Bay area, Asian immirgants while coming more in the US, still make up less of the children’s population in the US since Hispanics have more children on average. Outside of Seattle or SIlcon Valley or San Fran one is not going to pay much for educationing Asian children since Hispanics have still a 2.7 children versus about 1.7 per children in the Asian population. Also, Asians are not just lower income as Hispanic immirgants are as much but both lower and upper income. Personality, I support allowing Eastern Europeans in the US like Poland, Russia and so forth or even Greece. Current immirgation legal or illegal favors Mexico, China and so forth over European immirgaotin.
George,
I thought you had written the opening article until I got to the line, “Why in God’s holy Name do we want to turn a largely Protestant, Northern European country based on Enlightenment values into the Balkans?”, and I thought, Has he lost his mind? The fact is the same people who really, really, really, want to get rid of the “wetbacks” aren’t all that fond of us either. We are quite a strange lot to them with our icons and incense and hymns to the Mother of God. Once they get rid of the illegals (if they could, and they won’t because they can’t) they would look for other “un-American” groups and we’d be right up there near the top of the list–we Balkan and East European types.
The problem, beyond a vast influx of illegal immigrants is how to absorb them into a common culture. We can’t send 11 million people back. It is absolutely impossible without causing a human catastrophe that none of us would ever want to see as Christian people. So, how do we fix it so that those who are here are brought into the common culture and get to know our common history? That’s the real problem; it would require us to restore some semblance of pride in our past along with the requisite honesty of looking at our failings. It would mean restoring some sense of agreement about who we actually are. But like the OCA, we have in a sense, burnt down the house and all gone our own ways. Everyone seems to belong to a tribe of sorts or and interest group or a victims group that defines itself not by what is held in common but by what is held apart and in opposition. So let’s stop blaming the illegals. They still seem to want the dream so many in el Norte have abandoned. And isn’t that a fine paradox?
Ivan, I see where you’re coming from but I think your fears are overblown. We Orthodox immigrants have assimilated into American culture with only a modicum of stress and experience of native xenophobia. More importantly, we have not forced the majority to conform to us, nor are we especially noted for flooding the Welfare rolls, committing felonies, filling up the prisons, being indolent, and otherwise being malingerers. Our bishops may be empty-suited milquetoasts but our contributions to this land have been overwhelmingly positive I dare say.
Take note, a recent food insecuirty study by a liberal group on kids shown La, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Riverside and San Bernardino, Las Vegas and Mimai-Dade having the highest percentages All of these county areas have the highest number of Hispanics, usually over 40 percent and above average foreign born, legal or not. If people want hispanics in the US to have less levels of poverty then slowing down the immirgation rate would help, instead of doing guest worker programs all the time.
Well, also current immigration policies hurts the Orthodox, mainly because they favor Latin or Asian Countries. Russian or Greek or Syrians don’t have a relative in the US, as much, so they can’t come here as much. In fact Greeks came in more before 1965 than later. I and George and tired of politicians preferring immigrants coming illegal and then getting jobs over the native born particularly in jobs like construction. A country needs to control its immigration and Canada and other countries usually get to get better educated workers on the whole than the US, granted Canada they do have some guest worker programs for Agricultural and so forth. About 30 percent of US immigration whether illegal or Legal is from the Country of Mexico, the next highest is China at 10 percent.
There is a definite bright side that can’t be ignored. Every industrial society needs immigrant labor. It so happens that most of our immigrant labor is Catholic (or increasingly evangelical Christian), European in culture and language.
This is much better, to say the least, than Europe, where the pool is Muslim. We have Catholic parishes growing in many places, and small churches springing up everywhere. Rather better than mosques, I should say.
As for Asians, they have no innate hostility to Christianity at all. The Koreans who arrive are 50% Christian to start with, and more as time goes by.
There is no bright side: it’s a disaster. It’s the end of the republic. It’s It’s the beginning of a great push to shut the church out of the public sphere. It’s a disaster.
one; The Republic ended with the Civil War and its aftermath. The evil of slavery was the seed of its destruction. The industrialization that followed began the creation of a neo-feudal economic system (thank you Peter). The influx of largely unskilled, under educated people from Mexico will merely add an additional underclass to a post-industrial state further eroding upward social mobility and destroying what is left of the middle class.
The global fascistic state which is being formed on the labor and money of those whom the elites wish to destroy will complete the transformation. Bread and Circuses . In the process the bifurcation of the Church which began long ago will continue: those who serve God and those who serve mammon. The choice is ours no matter what others may do.
The really difficult part of martyrdom is the love one must have for those who persecute, torture and kill you. When they come for you, fear not for yourself or for anyone else. Trust in God alone, a daring, radical trust that leaves no place for the demonic to enter.
So, even if the scenario I laid out does not occur, it is not beyond the pale or totally imaginary.
Watch and pray, repent and forgive, fast and give alms, celebrate the Eucharist: God provides.
The apostasy was foretold, yet the Church lives on in her saints and in those who endure ’till the end.
“Create In me a clean heart oh Lord, and renew a right spirit within me…” Glory to God for all things.
Well, there are many things indeed I’m worried about, but I didn’t realize it was that serious!
“So, even if the scenario I laid out does not occur, it is not beyond the pale or totally imaginary.” That’s a relief; and all the bases are covered, too….
I hope that I can retain a sense of perspective. Maybe I should take a break!
I take some comfort from the fact that in every age the apocalypse is said to be nigh.
This is another reason, that lots of low skilled immirgants being legalized or having a lot of guest worker program may be bad. There may be technologcal changes like there was in manufactoring that may eventaully effective some of the service industries and means that companies or indivduals well hire a lot less maids, janiors or even agricultural workers. In fact some countries are ahead of us where they don’t need hardly any agricultural workers. As both parties, think they will benefit from low skilled immirgation it might be a bust. In the 2020’s the economy changes and aging legal or illegal immirgants that are low skilled might end up going home and working on building a robot in Mexico or China or Central America.
Many of those so called “low skilled immigrants” have children which serve (and die) in our US branches of the military, as well as children who go to college or universities and become doctors, lawyers, dentists, architects and engineers, or just owners/managers of businesses.
Matushka, I mean no disrespect to you or your heritage. However, speaking as the descendant of dirt-poor immigrants who likewise made significant contributions to this country, I humbly ask you to keep your eye on the real issue: we are talking about illegal aliens who are by definition criminals. We could go on and talk about the pathologies of many of these immigrant groups but I’ll leave that for another day. If anything, we should all be concerned about what’s really at stake, which is the importation and sustenance of an ethnically different helotry which will not only depress the living conditions of the native working class but will continue to be exploited indefinitely.
For what it’s worth, Gen Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the founders of the Ku Klux Klan, accepted the emancipation of blacks after the War Between the States. His solution however was that the South should import tens of thousands of Chinese in order to replace them as a poorly-compensated menial class. His reasoning was impeccable in that the lesson of history is that people of different races rarely intermarry. A permanent color bar would therefore exist between the Chinese and the European Herrenvolk. I for one would be up in arms if I thought that Greeks were going to be brought to China to serve as a permanent, obvious underclass.
Solution! (Well, it’s a start)
http://www.dosoca.org/spanish.html
Not a solution when we still suffer from inadequate English resources for the edification of the Church here.
English will become a dead language, I realize that because we continue to fall below replacement levels for the continuance of the population let alone being able to compete with Islam, China and the Latins.
Still, it bothers me that we are so willing to run after the Hispanics and ignore the culture of this country. Even worse when so many in the Church do everything they can to demean the English culture as being beyond salvation.
When are we going to take up the work of loving and evangelizing the native culture of this land rather than riding on top of it and being consumed by the worldly side of it?
If we refuse or are unable to do that, no amount of ‘outreach’ to other cultures will matter. The dead branch cannot give life.
The problem is Hispanics go into military service as less as a percent as native born whites or blacks. Same goes for Asians. A very tiny group of people go to military service that have parents here illegality or illegal in military with false id. Also, Hispanics are known to have boo the US soccer team against Mexico. Many Mexicans and other Latins have more loyalty to the mother country and are here mainly because you make more per hr. They also have much lower naturalization rates than some Asian groups or European immirgant groups. Also, a liberal in New Republic basically doesn’t like the current plan since it drives down wages. What might happen is the economically might changed and less lower skilled service and agricultural jobs will be available in 10 years or so, so some people will leave.I mean the growth of automation or the use of robots.. The group legalized under Reagan can collect Social Security and some might return home since its cheaper to low on social security in Mexico than places like La. There are Americans that locate to Mexico because of cheaper costs that are retired, the same might occue with Mexicans and others legalized under Reagan.
George, for most of the “illegal” immigrants you speak of, there is absolutely no way to enter the country legally. Period. I do not defend any drug dealers, mafiosas, cartels, human smugglers, prostitution rings or any other such truly criminal activities which should be halted, and prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law. However, most who cross without papers do not fit that category…If you do not own property or a business, or pay bribes (which means having $$$), you can not get papers.
Cynthia, there are also US “Anglos” and other citizens who “retire” in Mexico and elsewhere for the very same reasons. And have you never heard a Greek Americans cheer for the home team? Or Russian Americans? It is not as if we “Americans” have an unspoiled, spotless record of civility and good manners at all sporting events..
I do not know the statistics nationwide, but here in the Rio Valley, a HUGE percentage of Hispanics enter the military and are very proud and honored to serve this nation, which they love.
The problem with legitimizing those who came here illegally is that it is unfair to the people in Athens, Damascus or some other place who have tried to follow the law and come here legally. How many Orthodox Christians have tried to come here legally and have not been able to get the proper visa. Is it fair to them to recognize people who broke our laws and let them stay while still denying visas to others who have tried to come here legally? I have tried several times to help Lebanese or Syrians get their papers to come or stay here and have found the INS made up of mindless rule worshiping bureaucrats. I once tried to help a Russian trained at the Patriarchal school of iconography and got a response from the INS that icons have no religious significance. We need immigration reform that is fair to all, not just to those who came here illegally.
Father John, My husband regularly visits men who are imprisoned for coming to the US illegally – those who are Orthodox – from Ethiopia, and many other places… And yes, we need immigration reform that is fair to all. Including those who entered the country illegally… and including their children.
Proselytizing Hispanics was offered as a “solution” to the cultural miasma of this country. I have seen such nonsense several times. Those people are running after a false solution and the fact of the matter is there is still a high level of contempt for the English culture.
Michel, I do not know if this is a problem in Wichita, Kansas… Having visited there recently, I did not hear a word of Spanish spoken by anyone… And as for the place we live (which is, BTW, almost 90% Hispanic), English is hardly an endangered species. Although many people are bilingual, and a few only speak Spanish or speak English only in a broken manner, it is ENGLISH which is most commonly spoken by all. School classes are in English. The local College and University’s classes are in English. Even though some students are recent immigrants, they must pass their classes in and using English. I am not sure what “English culture” is… Can you explain? I think we have better tortillas and salsa here than in Kansas, having recently experienced the contrast as well, but I hardly think that is a contempt for “English” culture… 🙂
I know you have better tortillas and salsa. I have experienced a contempt for the English culture not in my parish exactly but it is there. When I say English will eventually die, I am not thinking immediately. But it will die if only because the birthrate of native English speakers is not keeping up with those who speak Spanish, or Arabic.
That trend could be reversed but it is historically unlikely. The west has seen Greek to Latin to French to English. English will eventually be supplanted.
Michael, Please do share! Where and in what ways is the Orthodox Church here in America “running after the Hispanics”? Besides my husband, who was born in the Dominican Republic and came here as a young child, there are very few in the US who do any outreach to Hispanics at all. I do not think you have anything to fear on that account, unfortunately. 🙂
Matushka Elizabeth,
You are absolutely correct, sadly. One thing that would be fairly easy for our Orthodox churches in the USA to do is to identify priests and/or seminarians who will be serving in heavily Latino areas (Texas, Arizona, southern California, New Mexico, etc.) and *require* them to learn Spanish, if they don’t know it already. If a man can graduate from seminary, then in all likelihood he can learn Spanish (which is far easier to learn than Greek or Russian or Arabic for a native English speaker).
If one of the primary jobs of an Orthodox priest and parish is outreach and evangelism to the local community, I do not understand why an “Anglo” Orthodox priest who does not speak or want to learn Spanish would be assigned to a heavily Latino part of the country. Makes no sense. This is an easy fix that can go to great lengths to help our outreach to the Latino community.
Gregg
That is why my husband is where he is – because he is bilingual. And, knowing Spanish is an excellent tool for evangelism and service here in the Rio Valley of S. Texas. We just experienced Pentecost, and are still in that blessed liturgical season. We are called to spread the gospel of Christ to all of the world, no matter the language, no matter the culture. Even though our region’s population is primarily Hispanic, our local church is made up of people from a great many backgrounds and places. From Russia, Ukraine, Lebanon, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Spain, Armenia, Mexico, Ethiopia, Dominican Republic, and even from Kansas, to name just some. Our liturgical services are in ENGLISH, because that is the common language of our people. However, our Archbishop DMITRI of blessed memory encouraged that we have one litany in the Divine Liturgy in Spanish, since that is also a local language – to honor that language. Other than that, and other than a multi-lingual litany we do in Great Vespers, it is all English here in S. Texas. Spanish is still extremely useful, though, in reaching out to and ministering to the local population.
Because all to often it is considered more important for the priest to learn Arabic, Slavonic, or Greek. Not everybody has facility for language.
George, BTW, I’m a “white gal” from Kansas of Celto-Germanic descent. However, my children ARE Hispanic… 🙂
One more thing to consider when considering this very complex and not so black and white issue… The US/Mexican border area is far more dangerous than the Middle East right now. More people are killed in that region than in Afghanistan or Iraq. People are murdered just as brutally as in the Middle East. Entire villages are taken over, plundered and its law abiding citizens forceably removed. What would you do for your family under these circumstances? If you could, would you take a change, even if it might mean (frequently does) dying in the process, to find a better future for your family, for your children? It was also illegal to go from East Berlin to West Berlin at one time… Should these people have been sent back because they did not have proper papers? To be sure, the drug cartel leaders have moved their own families to the USA, because it is safer…because their children can lead a normal life. These people are butchers, but they can afford to relocate their own families, and can do so legally – because they have property and businesses in Mexico, and because they can afford the bribes. Most humble workers do not have that luxury… Another travesty in this entire scene: right now, because of sequestering, the US Border Patrol is so starved for funding that it can not afford to put gasoline in its vehicles to keep its agents out on patrol! At this time, of all times, that should be our nation’s top priority! Just think about these things, okay? Enough said….
Matushka, what you describe south of the Border is nothing less than a travesty. Why do we want to import this pathology here? Wouldn’t it be better if we closed the Border and forced the Mexican people to solve their own problems? Or are we supposed to invade and subjugate them in order to pacify them?
Now that’s a suggestion that hasn’t been made since the 1840s!
P
1k reading: How To Take Care of Your Smartphone Battery the Right Way
S
e
Login
Related
King of the Cotton Pickers
monster machines
The World’s Fastest Ship Is Basically an Aquatic Concorde Jet
This Gorgeous Warbird Is More Phoenix Than Mustang
This Solar Satellite Will Shed Light on the Inner Workings of the Sun
Future Stunt Pilots Could Train in These All-Electric Planes
The Most Badass Truck in the US Army Is Straight Out of Thunderdome
monster machines
Andrew Tarantola 11/14/11 6:40pm g 20,203L 55
Wall-E-Like Farming Robots Could Replace Undocumented Workers and Save the US Billions
Related
King of the Cotton Pickers
You’re probably wearing something cotton-y right now. Cotton is fairly annoying to harvest. Mechanization was a quantum leap for the cotton… Read…
Despite advancements in mechanization within US agriculture, some menial jobs are still best left to human workers. Problem is, federal crackdowns on undocumented laborers have decimated that workforce. The Harvester automaton could provide a cheap, readily available labor force without the threat of raids by the INS.
The US agriculture industry is worth about $300 billion annually—half from livestock production, the other half from crops. However, some of the most basic jobs in this industry still have to be performed by people. Jobs like offloading potted plants from trucks, arranging them in rows for the growing season, then loading them back onto a truck when they’re ready for sale. That may not sound very difficult, but when performed on an industrial scale, it becomes a mammoth task requiring a huge workforce of low-productivity manual laborers—today largely comprising undocumented migrant workers. However, some analysts estimate that, by automating these sorts of tasks, a firm’s revenue per employee could be increased from $40K per employee vs. $175K per employee—an annual labor savings of $21 billion. “We’ve recognized the need for robotics in the nursery industry for moving pots because it’s one of our highest concentrations of labor use,” said Tom Demaline, president of Willoway Nurseries, Inc. in Avon, Ohio.
And that’s where the Harvest Automation robots come in. These rolling, knee-high machines have an extendable gripper arm and tray for grabbing and carrying plants as well as a simple sensor suite for navigation. Instead of employing complicated and expensive GPS navigation, the Harvesters use sensors to detect boundary markers, a laser range finder for seeing the plants in front of them, and a gyroscope for dead reckoning navigation.
To operate them, the user first positions the robots in front of a grouping of plants. He then uses a touchscreen interface to input how far to move the plants and how to space them, and the location of the boundary marker. And that’s it—the robots will then automatically pick, move, arrange, and place the desired number of plants as the user instructed. These robots are expected to retail for between $25,000 and $50,000 per unit, though those numbers will obviously diminish as the technology gains a foothold in the industry. And even at that price, these robots are “much more efficient than the human workers, so we’re going to save [nurseries] money just on the unit cost to move a plant,” said Harvest AI’s CEO Charles Grinnell.
What’s more, future iterations of the robots will be able to scan each plant as they carry them and generate individual data profiles of every plant in the nursery—an extremely labor-intensive task that has to this point simply hasn’t been cost-effective enough to implement. But, with an automated workforce, nurseries will be able to better manage their use of water, fertilizers, and pesticides. Harvest AI also plans to eventually expand the robots’ capabilities to allow them to work in other industries like warehouses, construction and mining. [Ubergizmo – Wired – Harvest AI]
Monster Machines is all about the most exceptional machines in the world, from massive gadgets of destruction to tiny machines of precision,
ra Coakley (Mass A.G.) 11/15/11 8:07am
@
@
S
I
1
L
I’m just waiting for Bruce Dern to show up and blow up all the people in order to save the trees. 11/14/11 7:10pm
BeckfieldUMaxxCraves:
1
L
Muzungu_Mbaya and 1 others…
2 participants@
Robusto68UAndrew Tarantola
1
L
I wonder where the savings for the country comes in. Does anyone really think any savings would be passed on to the consumer? 11/14/11 8:57pm
negitoroURobusto68
1
L
Would making farming more profitable, reduce the need for federal subsidies? 11/14/11 11:14pm
Robusto68Unegitoro
1
L
Somehow I find it hard to believe that ConAgra’s lobbyists would allow that to happen. And if they did they’d certainly pass on the loss of that revenue in the form of price hikes to the consumer. 11/15/11 7:46am
1 participant@
Arggh! there goes a…snake a snake!UAndrew Tarantola
1
L
“retail for between $25,000 and $50,000 per unit”
We are a long way away from getting a robot that can be as versatile as a manual laborer. These robots will need to be out in the fields on rough terrain doing more than just picking up pots. Also, they will need frequent maintenance so the 25-50k per unit is unrealistic. I think in the long run the cost benefit would be a lot less than quoted in this article. 11/15/11 7:17am
shawn_dudeUArggh! there goes a…snake a snake!
1
L
Depends. They can work at night when everyone else is asleep. They work on weekends and holidays and they work as long as they are charged. The have no wages so you only pay a sales tax on them and then write off the depreciation over their lifespan.
Large nurseries (those that feed Home Depot and others potted plants) routinely move large “fields” of potted plants from one area of the farm to another. The versatility of the human laborer is not important if they are always 100% dedicated to a single task like moving pots. They are a better fit for a job that requires versatility and may enjoy that sort of job more. And really, we are limiting ourselves if we only think “pots” here and not any other sort of simple inventory work. Any repetitive task involving moving and arranging large groups of product will be a good fit. 11/15/11 1:28pm
About
Help
Terms of Use
Privacy
Content Guidelines
RSS
Jobs
© Gawker Media 2013
I ‘ve change my mine a little not that I’m for the immigration bill but I think low skilled whites and blacks should also worked 2 or 3 services jobs like the illegal immigrants and sometimes have borders to survive. The illegal immigrants at the most have welfare for their school aged kids unlike what those on the paleo-con right which complain about the factory jobs going overseas but not getting whites or blacks to take more than one low paying job. Americans who work retail can sometimes moved up to Manager of it they have a 2 to 4 year degree to a buyer. People have to make due with the bad job market and maybe this will reduce illegal immigration of more people take a maid or janitorial job to make ends meat.I went from a paleo-con view back to a regular conservative view. However, I think the US sill should be able to control the number of people for low skilled jobs hence some immigration control.