The End Result of “Liberalism”

It’s never easy to look at a dying religion. Even in its death-throws the collateral damage can be devastating. This is even true of those who never believed in it in the first place. Or for those (like me) who left it long ago.

And so it is with the religion of Liberalism. Or Progressivism, Democracy or any other “Enlightenment” philosophy.

Don’t get me wrong, we had a good run, in these United States from about 1789 until 1913 but it’s been downhill ever since. The true, liberal ethos of the Founding Fathers took a massive hit when Woodrow Wilson created the national-governance state but up until about the 1990s, we still paid lip service to the original founding ideals of ordered liberty.

It couldn’t last forever. Nothing does. As Christians, we know this (or we should know it). Anyway, this is a big subject and there’s a lot to talk about.

Today, I’d like to talk about the Academy, which is clearly ready for a monumental collapse. Things like “safe spaces” (segregation anyone?); “rape-culture” (the end of co-education?); and censorship (see: Richwine, Jason; Watson, James).

Which brings me to the thing that props it all up: College Football.

Recently, the University of Missouri gave in to a lynch mob of sorts and forced its president to resign without so much as a “by-your-leave.” The reason was because of a swastika made of feces. Like so many “racist” actions, this was most probably a hoax but no matter: it’s all about the Narrative of “white privilege.”

What did the president (Tim Wolfe) in was a strike by the Mizzou football team. This is ironic because Mizzou has an execrable record this season (he should have fired them). My younger son and I were talking about it (we’re Sooners) and he congealed the common wisdom, which was that the Tigers wouldn’t have revolted were they 9-0. “True,” I replied. “But that’s not the point. What would happen to the Sooners (for example) if Mizzou were going to play us next Saturday?”

The point is that NCAA football can’t sustain itself if 5 percent of the teams won’t play. And if these five percent get their egregious demands met, why won’t another dozen or so teams do likewise?

The economic devastation would be significant. It’s not just that these football programs fund the rest of the (federally mandated) Title IX sports programs but the more successful ones (like the University of Oklahoma’s) darn well fund the rest of the university. This has a positive spill-over effect for the rest of state’s education funding.

Then there’s the actual college towns themselves. Their economic lifeblood is the Saturday tail-gate parties. The restaurants and hotels likewise prosper. Individual home-owners make extra cash by charging five dollars or more for parking on their lawns, driveways, wherever.

Anyway, that’s football. My takeaway was the Maoism involved. Take a look at the Univ of Missouri “professor” in this graphic. If she’s had the Red Guards at her disposal, Wise wouldn’t have been merely fired but likely shot.

The point of all this is that free speech for all intent and purposes is dead. The First Amendment still hasn’t been legally overturned but at this point it doesn’t really matter. The end of debate on so many topics in the modern Academy is basically a done deal. From thence it will spread to the broader culture as a whole.

This of course means that the collapse is nigh as one of the hallmarks of a dying civilization is the increased censoriousness of the Establishment. You can almost see the fear in her eyes.


  1. Daniel E Fall says

    Funny how money changes freedom.

    Of course, I mean Citizens United.

    Money is speech and corporations are people.

    And you blame who?

  2. I would not go as far as you have, I do think that there is a sea-change in our civilization with a result that we have split into two vastly different halves. One way to do something about it is to join the call for an Assembly of States in accordance with Article V our Constitution. Here is a link where you can join:

  3. Michael Kinsey says

    The video, Everything is a Rich man s Trick, which does prove conspiracy to murder JFK, by an assortment of career criminals, who held positions of genuine authority in the US Government. It also has a web site you can join, to advocate opposition to the totalitarian Nazi, Mafia, Freemason( Goat of Mendes Satanic) coup de eta I suggest you think twice before you sign up. It may just be an attempt to find out who they need to send to the FEMA camps. The organization mentioned above concerning Article V ,may well be another ploy to find and destroy opposition. The Holy Scripture exclaims, Who can fight the beast. I say no one, legally or militarily. This can only be endured by authentic Christianity. But, Many will gain the Victory in Jesus Christ over the beast and it’s mark.He who seeks to save his life will lose it, He who loses his life for the Christ sake will save it. This Holy Scripture is Absolute Truth. Obey the Vision.

  4. A Non-mouse says

    I’ll just leave this here.

  5. Michael Warren says

    While liberalism may be dying in its inanity and incompetence and gay crusade, social democracy and the struggle for economic justice, social franchise and higher standards of living for working people and their families is the reinvigorated banner of the left, and we are freed of the straightjacket of moral nihlism. A global traditionalist left is emerging to both bury western liberalism and American capitalism. The Western Right is as much the enemy as Western liberalism of struggling working people. We will no longer be pied pipered by the bogeymen of Woodstock, herded by race pimping, marshaled into gay crusading or enforced atheism. Technocratic plantation politics, serfdom of working people, will be abolished. We will be emancipated from the political games of limousine liberals and the exploitative evangelists of the American gospel of wealth. Workers of the world are uniting. We are neo Soviet and we won’t be singing red, white and blue uber alles in the tone of brown, no.

    • Tim R. Mortiss says


    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

      Michael Warren, you’ve only managed to skim the surface of the Sea of Possible Cliches and Slogans!

      • Michael Warren says

        Blagoslovite, Vladyko.

        When the median family income today is $40k pa and it was $30k pa thirty years with the value of the dollar decreasing 2/3 of what it was then and the cost of living doubling, the only people with the cliches and slogans are the ones talking about “black lives matter,” “love does not have boundaries,” “we are looking out for the middle class,” and “we are a shining city on a hill” that’s why we endorse “American exceptionalism.”

        Let’s break this down so even people who think by NY Times and Faux News can understand. Labor creates wealth, either in the Marxian or Lockean sense. That means that what we work to put into something adds value to it. OK. Now when monied classes use that labor to make profit and don’t equitably see that working people realize a return on their property – Locke defines such labor as property – despite whatever contract, since the return is incommensurate with the labor, they exploit working people through fraud and engage in theft. When they use the profits of labor to automate but do not share the profits of automated labor with those who provided the wealth to create it, they engage in economic warfare and oppress the working class, intentionally impoverishing it. If working people try to do this to capital there seems to be violence and resistance which always follows.

        So Americans today live with roughly a third of the standard of living that they did with thirty years ago. That’s why your effette liberalism is hated by working people who are done with empty promises and liberal partisan politics of distraction. This is why your liberalism is dead and people are done with your bankrupt ideology.

        The greatest irony is that the American capitalist system only maintains its existence today due to the labor and capital of social democratic, Communist China.

        The Dow was at roughly 3000 thirty years ago. Today it is pushing 15000. That is roughly a 500% increase. Even adjusting this for neo liberal dollar devaluation, monied interests increased their fortunes 150% while working people transferred 70% of the wealth they created to them. Quite an interesting income redistribution clintonian and trickle down and Obama neo liberal banksterism created.

        And you speak of tired cliches. Working people are tired of the exploitation and inherent economic inequalities limousine liberal gay crusading race pimps and conservative not so family valued televangelists of a false gospel of wealth have exacted upon them.

        That is why the old order of things is ending and social democracy is in the ascendency, not that a retired Bishop of the Church should ideologically be inclined either way. After all, a chief tenet of liberalism is separation of Church and state…

        And, Vladyko, most of my cliches seem to be mirrored in the writings of St. John Chrysostom, albeit with a different jargon. Seems odd you would take issue with the premise to promote a system which opposes it.

    • “Neo-Soviet”? (In reference to Michael Warren post) What is that? “Neo” gulags and “neo” purges and “neo” genocides? Soviet’s “neo” or otherwise have never had any accomplishments of anything or other, Stalin et. al. only dripped head to toe with the innocent blood of millions of people children and women included. Soviet Union collapsed primarily, primarily, really only one main reason, because of Chernobyl. Its buried in the still smoldering radioactivity it will emit for the next 40 thousand years, and its would be “neo” counterpart lies there with it.

      • Michael Warren says

        Accomplishments? Such as increasing the standard of living five fold for peoples living on an area 1/4 of the world’s surface which has precipitously declined for those people since the fall of the Soviet Union? Or winning WWII and liberating over half of Europe from NAZI tyranny and ending the Holocaust? Or maybe Soviet China’s floating of American capitalism on life support with its larger, more prosperous and successful Soviet economy: Soviet money keeps American capitalism from collapsing. Soviet money pays American bills, floats American debt, keeps American banks running and makes sure the lights stay on in America.

        Let’s not forget the nations of the world with highest standards of living like Finland and Sweden whose social democracy is derived from the Soviet, and not the American, model.

        Love Canal, Three Mile Island, Fukushima, the Ohio River setting on fire. Yeah, American technology and industry didn’t poison the earth for thousands of years. Let’s not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki where a crime against humanity was perpetrated to foist the American system on Asia, where whole civilian populations were incinerated with nuclear weapons as a civilizational act of violence, poisoning foreign lands and peoples for thousands of years with terror and horror. That is obscene and evil. But red, white and blue uber alles is not guilty because it is exceptional, right?

        Chernobyl was an accident happening because the Soviet System was supplying affordable power to its people, not bankrupting them with electricity and heating bills. California knows all about crippling consumer power bills. While the banderofascist regime in power has only allowed the contamination from Chernobyl to spread and the nuclear fires to reignite under electric Uncle Sam’s ever so competent, colonial watch. Nor will we mention Western capitalism using the Ukraine for a dump for its toxic and nuclear waste, made possible by dollars and euros put in the hands of colonial viceroy-oligarchs. After all, that would undermine the colonial narrative of red, white and blue uber alles, wouldn’t it?

        Gulags, you mean a network of Indian Reservations or Lincoln’s internment camps when he suspended habaeus corpus during the 1864 election or Japanese internment camps during WWII or the FEMA camps of today? Seems I can’t appreciate gulags as well without seeing them here first.

        So neo means “new” as in a new approach to a political ideology which works to rectify the shortcomings of the past while building on past achievements. In that way my approach is even neoAmerican in calling for social justice and higher living standards for working people in America while broadening their liberty, franchise and citizen sovereignty in respect of their families, creeds and traditional cultures. Seems Neo Sovietism is more representative of the American people and their American Dream than the failed red baiting ideology you seem to want to force on everyone.

        • Your ..

          “Soviet money keeps American capitalism from collapsing. Soviet money pays American bills, floats American debt, keeps American banks running and makes sure the lights stay on in America.” .. This is some kind of a joke, right?

          Your ..

          “Gulags, you mean a network of Indian Reservations or Lincoln’s internment camps when he suspended habaeus corpus during the 1864 election or Japanese internment camps .. etc.”

          No. Wrong gulags. The Soviet gulags. The Lenin Dzerzhinski Stalin Khrushev gulags. Your “gulags” by comparison are five star accommodations at the Hilton Waikiki.

          Pre-revolutionary Russia excelled in everything arts sciences economy social justice and workers wages and was the “Bread Basket” of Europe and in a lot of these categories lead the world. Under the reign of Aklexander lll not a single war in all of Europe, unprecedented.

          Under the communist soviets they executed everyone and anyone who knew how to do anything that did not only involve a pick and shovel or a hammer and a sickle, the Soviet Union came to nothing. Stalin fought the Germans by ordering millions of soldiers under German tanks until the Germans ran out of shells. Stalin was an illiterate grunt aside from the dirty little poems he wrote to his prostitutes. Patton decided the war with Nazi Germany mostly.

          By the way, there are no more “Soviets” per se. “Neo-Soviets”? Probably however I have not come across that terminology nowhere until here, they are probably like the ones painting icons of Joseph Stalin?

          Central Government does not work. The people who run “central government” are only propagandists who have no job skills. That is why Soviet Union collapsed. Chernobyl was only the catalyst that exposed all the rot but that rot from within had been waiting for something to happen and that something did finally happen.
          Russia today is not “neo-Soviet” and the overwhelming number of Russian people do in fact know that an “icon” of Stalin is a demonic blasphemy.

          • Michael Warren says

            Chinese Soviet money floats American debt which is more than 100% of American GDP, and Soviet China has surpassed the American economy. You might want to go to a library or search the web to clarify for yourself how Soviet money floats Bush-Obama debt. One who eats due to the wealth created by a Soviet economy and can’t repay his debt to Soviet workers has nothing to say about the Soviet system or a Soviet central government (seeing as how your central government or whatever federalism you clutch at is not only bankrupt but owes its great grandchildren to Soviet workers).

            Since you refuse to see the crimes of your own nation but rather cast aspersions on the Soviet Union, you just admitted you aren’t much more than a russophobe. Well, Mr. American Exceptionalism, General George Armstrong Custer perpetrating a policy of genocide against Native Americans begun by President Andrew Jackson. A system of genocide which lasted longer than the Soviet Union (The first Soviet Union: there will be another!). Your nation founded itself on at least one generation of genocide which you claimed was your GOD given “manifest destiny.” Ponder that in your heart next time you mention Lenin, Stalin or whomever. How much of the Red in red, white and blue uber alles is Native American blood?!

            The Red Army defeated NAZI Germany and liberated concentration camps. But of course you are exceptional (exceptional at hating people who surpass you in civilizational achievements) so the sacrifice of the Soviet peoples is something you can attempt to cast aspersions upon in a base manner. In everything from small arms to armor to tactics the Red Army was superior to their Western allies. Let us not mention Dunkirk or the War in the Pacific where US forces found casualties as high as 80% acceptable in the defeat of and subjugation of Imperial Japan. Why, Soviet prowess in small unit tactics and asymetric warfare in WWII not only defeated NAZI Germany while Americans drank tea in England, it defeated American colonialism in Southeast Asia. For we will try and dare more times unsuccessfully until we succeed than your red, white and blue uber alles can even anticipate or persevere. We are working people fighting for a better life for all. We have nothing to lose but exceptional red, white and blue chains.

            The Russian Empire fell because of its class inequality and a corrupt, imperial system which had totally lost touch with the people, an intolerable situation where liberal, monied interests overthrew the Tsar to have a more direct means of exploiting working people while making themselves richer. The working masses of peasants, soldiers and proletarians in turn overthrew their exploiters.

            The resulting Soviet State broadened political franchise and public literacy, revolutionized public health and education, industrialized a nation lagging behind the world due to the parasitic capitalism of the Imperial period and increased the standard of living for 1/3 the world’s population five fold.

            So despite your tired propaganda, the Soviet model in every way is superior for the common man and working families. In the Soviet Union, the majority had college level educations at a time when a sizeable minority in the USA was functionally illiterate.

            I am unapologetically anti-colonialist and anti-capitalist and Neo Soviet for I care about improving the lot of humanity.

            • George Michalopulos says

              In respect to Old Hickory, he committed “ethnic cleansing” not “genocide.”

              Plus, I think we can all agree that the Bolshevist experiment was not worth the extinction of the Romanov dynasty. I for one, have looked at the stats regarding the old Russian Empire and was shocked to learn how prosperous it was. True, the Great War brought untold suffering to many people but even then, it was because of the evil Lenin –and not the people–that Bolshevism triumphed.

              • Yes, absolutely. Lenin, Trotsky (i.e. Bronstein) and all the many other Bolshevik super radicals and its all very well known the vast overwhelming number of them all mainly of Jewish descent with only their taken Russian last names, all highly well organized and bankrolled of course we know by who, the Schiffs and Hammers and Loebs Kuehns, Morgans and Rockefellers, all the deep pockets. Jekyll Island guys. Its been said one of the actual real main reasons for the regicide was that Tsar Nicholas ll was not going to institute a Central Bank, a ‘Russian Fed’ and that is what was really the thing of most importance to the globalists, hence Ekaterinburg. Fault of the majority of the Russian people of the day is that they did not see the Reds coming, were complacent, thought it would all blow over. The Whites even though outnumbered and out funded nearly defeated the Reds and then all history in the 20th Century would have been vastly different, probably even no WWll, oh well, God’s will by way of “Divine Allowance.” Maybe people had started to become too secularized and over infatuated following French Parisian lifestyles and getting into all kinds of occult intellectual philosophies of the day, the “intelligentsia” and so forth, anyway, for my own self I will always know that the Bolsheviks were only subhuman and today in the USA itself, with something like “neo Socialist Democrats” or “socialists” or “social” whatever, democrats liberals (sounds like Barrack and Hillary sort of), things could get scary.

              • Michael Warren says

                So ethnic cleansing is not a form of genocide and is acceptable?

                Since Bolshevism floats American debt it seems to be essential to keep repeating so that the American capitalist economy doesn’t fall, right?

            • Michael Bauman says

              Mr. Warren
              For one who purports to hold the principles of the USA founders sacrosanct you have an amazingly Marxist view of history. Huge cobnirive dissonance for me.

              Nevertheless you demonstrate the great weakness of relying on history for understanding. History is always an ideological work. Even what is considered facts and certainly those selected and how they are prioritized is determined by the ideological assumptions of the presenter.

              The Christian approach to history is focused on the Cross and the incarnation of God.

              • Michael Warren says

                What is marxist about my presentation and understanding?

                Were you ever acquainted with the historical theology of Fr. John Meyendorff?

              • Michael Warren says

                I am a social democrat, yes. Neo Soviet. And Orthodox.

                • MW:

                  I am a social democrat, yes. Neo Soviet. And Orthodox.

                  Living in… the Russian Federation, of course!

                  • Michael Warren says

                    You live in a small world of hate made possible by the fact Russian Orthodox Christians consider your kind as unwell and worthy of pity.

            • Michael Warren,

              I think you seriously need to look at cutting back on your usage of “uber ales.”! Probably, most people have no clue what it means and anyway it just sounds too propagandistic and antiquated. Because the Soviet communists were not able to entirely extinguish the human spirit and capacities of the ‘Russian person’ under the USSR maybe there were a few things Russian People were able to achieve in some select field or another, space station MIR for example. Otherwise, the period of the USSR 1917 through early 1990’s was a complete total abject failure in everything with regard to human standards of living and just “human” anything really, bankrupt in all its entirety.

              The one “Great Symbol of the USSR” would be “toilet paper lines” stretching all the way back around the corner and down the block.

              As we speak or type, I’m pretty sure all your marxian heroes are sitting somewhere awaiting their ‘Day.’ I for one cannot and am not “judging” no one or anybody, thats only for God of course, I would only say I would not for myself wish to be anywhere near 100 million trillion light year miles of them. In history you have the famous historical villains; Cain, Judas Iscariot, Nero, Thief of the left side, and so on, all the communist marxists and their sympathizers, co-enablers and apologists are all there in that camp if I were to venture a guess on that.

              “1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
              12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”

              Your history of ‘Russia’ appears straight out of a curricula from the Khrushchev academic era and similar in ways to Hollywood’s “Nicholas and Alexandra.” In Orthodox circles a more authentic history can be found it may take some little research though.

              • Michael Warren says

                In other words you don’t like historical attribution to your red, White and blue uber alles tirade, hate the Soviet money which keeps your collapsing empire afloat and simply are comfortable clinging to colonialist nonsense and propaganda?

                Sieg heil!

                • Tovareesh ..

                  You are “Neo-Soviet” no doubt. And “Neo-Orthodox” to match.

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Red, white, and blue uber alles in the tone of brown.

                    The only “neo Orthodoxy” here seems to be the Renovationism, McOrthodoxy, of people like yourself here. People who seem to have a problem with the traditional Orthodox witness of the Russian church and call it “fundamentalism” because it is faithful to the Holy Fathers, the Holy Canons, the Holy Scripture expressing the Mind of the Church… Your red, white and blue alternative tends to put organs in Orthodox churches, shaves Orthodox clerics, dresses them in papal pedophile lounge suits, uses relativism as its standard of Orthodoxy, finds other lungs to the Church in branch theory and doubts the sovereign Truth of Orthodoxy unless the NCC can respect it as “Christian” and “inclusive enough” for agnostic and atheist AHEPA archons to accept along with communing those engaged in mortal sin.

                    • Your “Stalinism” is not any kind of “traditional witness” of the Orthodox Church. He dynamited thousands upon thousands of historic Russian Orthodox churches including the great Christ the Savior cathedral in Moscow (to build a swimming pool that kept sinking and they gave up, it would have only been an ice skating rink anyway) which now has been “rebuilt” however is only a replica, a “neo-soviet” replica. He only turned to the Orthodox populace to bail himself. He, just like Lenin and Trotski and all the many others were all “communists” all of them, persecutors of all the faithful Russian Orthodox peoples. Communists by definition are ALL atheists, without exception, period, make that a double and triple period, no exceptions, likewise “Soviets” are 100% synonymous to communists. Therefore a “neo-Soviet-Orthodox” is by definition a complete total 100% absurdity, nonsense, propaganda jargon Bolshevik style, double speak, oxymoron.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      The Moscow Sobor of 1948 united all Orthodox local Orthodox churches in fidelity and Patristic Orthodoxy. Its themes were the hallmark of the work of theologians like +Archbishop Seraphim of Boguchar, Fr. Georges Florovsky and Vladimir Lossky. It was only later in the 1960s that ROCOR and various self pronounced “authentic Orthodox” tried to ride its coat tails.

                      Nonsenensical, heretical screeds like yours used to be the hallmark of ROCOR trying to justify its schism and create an Eastern Rite Protestant ecclesiology unheard of by the Church. It repented of views like this and branded them schismatic. Since it authored them only to condemn them I guess you just condemned yourself by parroting self-condemned schismatic propaganda.

                      Your talking points were used by Adolph Hitler as well. He really cared a lot about Orthodox Christians and Orthodox churches, didn’t he? About as much as your usurper in the Oval Office who was schooled in Indonesian, Islamic madrassas, right?

                      The issue of Joseph Stalin and Red Symphonia is not as simple as some timewarp back into the 1930s to then screech they never ended. Unbalanced and ridiculous. Even the schismatics of ROCOR noted the fidelity to the Holy Canons of the Mother Church and its perserverence despite persecution. They simply wanted to run the show wherever they could find a garage to constitute white governments in exile and avoid reality. Reality was in 1930 60% of the Soviet Union regarded itself as Orthodox Christian. The same number supported the principle of Soviet government. Those numbers increased in subsequent years through the death of Stalin. He began supporting the Church with WWII and supported it until his death, opening churches, monasteries, seminaries presses.

                      And today over 70% of Russians consider themselves Orthodox Christians. 70% of the Orthodox world is the Russian Orthodox church. Today the numbers of continuning ROCOR sergianist hunters have dwindled to tens with more hierarchs than sheeple. So you truly are part of a heretical and sectarian lunatic fringe.

                      For the record, even though I am a Russian party remnant in the OCA, I am also an unapologetic “sergianist.”

                      Quite often pathological voices of hate and schism avoid noticing how their Western governments oppose and even act against Christianity. These antiChristian red, white and blue uber alles governments use their intelligence agencies to further persecution of Orthodox Christians and set up secular governments in Orthodox countries to precisely promote anti-Christianity and to actively repress Orthodox renewal. Gay crusade anyone? Seems red, white and blue uber alles is continuing Yaroslavsky’s work as the DC branch of the worldwide league of the militant godless. You are more guilty today as an American of Stalin’s crimes than any Neo Soviet politician in Russia. You continue Bolshevik persecution by the foreign policy you support.

                      Over the last decade, Zyuganov, the head of the CPRF has apologized for the persecution of the Church and applauds the restoration to prominence the Russian Orthodox church enjoys in culture nationally in Russia. His Communist party supports the restoration of the Church and its edifying role in society. Your Emperor Obama considers Orthodoxy a threat to American interests around the globe. Nuff said.

                      Ignorant, lumpen talk of fake churches and fake clerics and whatnot I leave to people having the last “authentic Orthodox synods in the world” in their living rooms anathemizing their family members downstairs who “commune at the false altars of world Orthodoxy.” That heretical, crackpot stupidity keeps the purveyors of aluminum foil in business. Because without foil hats for papal tiaras, this group of heretics would be lost and would have to call in Shirley McClain to channel Matthew of Vresthena to light their way into bezpopovschina. Lunatics.

                      So with this schismatic rant now dealt with, I simply return to what Neo Sovietism is: a social democratic movement of historical and cultural continuum of the Russian Orthodox peoples building upon the successes of the past while recognizing and avoiding the mistakes in a mature civilizational podvig, hand in hand with the Russian Orthodox church. A social democratic, continuuing Russian Orthodox civilization. Only antichrists, poseur American colonialists, russophobes, insane orthophobe lumpen oppose the achievement of our civilization.

                    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                      Oh, I don’t know… that all sounds like SNL’s Church Lady to me!

                    • Texan Orthodox says

                      Why are we rehashing this “ROCOR” vs “non-ROCOR” garbage? ROCOR and the MP formally reconciled in 2007, informally long before that. Isn’t that cause for much rejoicing? ROCOR produced wonderful saints (eg: Vladika John of S.F.) and so did the MP (eg: St Luke the surgeon of Crimea).

                      At ROCOR parishes, Pat. Kyrill is commemorated at every liturgy now.

                      Let’s be thankful for this. What more do we want?

                    • Mr. Uber, your:

                      “The Moscow Sobor of 1948 united all Orthodox local Orthodox churches in fidelity and Patristic Orthodoxy. Its themes were the hallmark of the work of theologians like +Archbishop Seraphim of Boguchar, Fr. Georges Florovsky and Vladimir Lossky.”

                      Sobor? What Sobor? You are talking about all those ruthless murderers of millions of innocents in cassocks, the Chekist-KGB Bishops? That fraud, that rotten cruel joke and your lackey intelligentsia? Met. Sergius broke communion with the Holy Martyrs, Hiero-Martyrs and Confessors of the ROC, the Historical ROC of Patriarch Tichon. In his lifetime Stragorodsky never repented as far as the historical record goes and no one on either side disputes this. When he assumed his “leadership” office in the Church he usurped it with the Soviet machine installing him, once in office he further usurped the authority of that office which was never legitimately his in the first place. A complete total 100% fraud, “a fallen bishop” is what and who he is and thats the historical record. Today, all these “soviet” orthodox like to have it both ways, they wish to honor the martyrs who were persecuted in no small measure by the communist/bolsheviks with, WITH, the aid and backing of Stragorodsky’s statement of loyalty, and then they want to “honor” him, Stragorodsky that is, again both ways contradictions, oxymorons, sorry, it does not work that way. You “honor” Stragorodsky you forfeit your veneration of the actual real Holy Martyrs and Confessors regardless of how many prostrations you do in front of their Icon.

                      Yes, the historical ROCOR caved and capitulated in 2007 with their false “Unia.” It was in the works going back to 1990’s and even further back with the Soviet moles, cells (cancer cells) always working and digging their little holes in the backyard of the Church, always undermining the Historical Russian Church with lies, Izvestia and Pravda style propaganda lies, what no one ever bothered reading but came in handy when the line got too long. ROCOR churches today ….
                      …. are …. empty, just a babushka or two, occasionally a family from Russia, they put $1 dollar in the plate and maybe buy a candle or two and a phosphor. Yet they (priests) all wear brand new vestments of each and every hue and color, never ending flights to everyones “birthday party,” yes Gundyaev is very much on top of wishing all his clergy people “Happy Birthday” and they fly for every anniversary of the most trivial kind like the “38th year of your ordainment as reader” and so forth. It all costs money, the dollar in the plate does not cover it. So they all sold out, they rationalize there was some kind of “repentance” which was not any kind of “repentance” at all just smoke and mirrors. They go into the WCC yet have the Anathema of 1983 against ecumenism. Today the ROCOR-MP as they stand are ‘self-anathematizing’ ecumenism/sergianism just part of that. Metropolitan Anastasy had described Stalin as being covered “Head to Toe with Blood and having as many legions and wounds as a Leper.” Stalin cut a deal with the “Church” only to save his own neck and no other reason, after WWll a couple monasteries, churches opened and were dangerous for anyone to attend. Khrushev re-continued the mass murder of Russian Orthodox peoples, the catacomb churches especially persecuted with demoniac madness and cruelty. If on Judgement Day you wish to join Stalin and that whole entire company they will all be one group going to one destination, then you choose that for yourself of your own free will and reasoning.
                      I would venture to make assessment that place will be “under-uber ales” in tone of “screeching gnashing teeth” and the Historical Russian Orthodox Church of Patriarch Tichon will be nowhere anywhere near there to be found.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      In other words, you are a schismatic who has no understanding of Orthodox ecclesiology.

                      2/3 of what had been ROCOR attended the 1948 Moscow Sobor, leaving ROCOR for it was in schism and an illegitimate, pretender organism. +Archbishop Seraphim of Bulgaria was one of this sobor’s principle churchmen, and he had been the premier theologian of ROCOR. ROCOR is now planning on glorifying him. Then there’s the fact that nearly all local Orthodox churches were in attendance. And ROCOR accepts it today.

                      This sobor’s condemnation of ecumenism became one of the pedastle’s of “authentic Orthodox” sanctimony, despite the fact that the Moscow Sobor’s condemnation of ecumenism condemns “authentic Orthodox synods”: those “resisters” out of Communion are heterodox, non Orthodox, because schismatics outside of the Church by their very nature violate the canonical order and ecclesiology of the Church, they being heterodox in belief and schismatic in structure are unlawful assemblies. Without Communion with the Church you have neither valid apostolic succession nor membership in the Body of CHRIST.

                      ROCOR condemned the lunatic fringe Eastern Rite Protestant nonsense you keep toiling at as schismatic. They authored it. Here you have ROCOR people asking why you are rehashing propaganda that ROCOR itself calls schismatic. And allusions to church ladies on baby food diets saying your lunatic screed should be on SNL.

                      In other words you are screeching that you are a schismatic using religion as a John Birch Society political platform. Neither understanding religion nor politics with any competence.

                      Because after all red, white and blue uber alles is so much a bastion of Orthodox symphonia in its gay crusade and sponsorship of ethnic cleansing of Orthodox Christians. Then there’s the Kenyan emperor’s declared jihad on Orthodox Christian states. Seems that’s where your lunatic, heterodox ravings emanate from. For the same league of militant godlessness purpose.

                      Your replacement ecclesiology has the sectarian stench of bezpopovschina, a contrived, Eastern Rite dispensationalist lunatic fringe tract. The blather of Russophobes, Eastern Rite Protestants and convalescent church ladies who have run out of Gerber mashed carrots and blame Putin and +Patriarch Kirill.

                      So, yes, I am a Nikonian. Unapologetically Orthodox in Communion with the Church. You are a schismatic and failed politician playing pope from “the last Orthodox living room on earth.” You should get some more aluminum foil to create a beacon to the Matthewite mothership so that you and the 12 Russophobic wannabe Russian monarchists in your universal jurisdiction can have them intercede and reconcile your “authentic orthodoxies” without having to anathemize each other for the sixth time in the last three weeks. Do fix the leak in the roof of your garage or your “sobor” might get washed away.

                      Circus clowns, cranks, schismatic toilers = “authentic Orthodox.” Eastern Rite foil hats.

                    • In response to Texan Orthodox,

                      This was a well known prophecy about the MP (who else?):

                      “St Lavrenty’s prophecies of the Last Days are well-known in the Orthodox world. Today, people pass them on, often without reference to the author, “There will come a time when all the closed churches will reopen, repaired both outside and inside. Their domes and bell towers will shine with gold. Finally, when they all shine in glory, the time for the reign of the Antichrist will come. All the churches will be incomparably splendid as never before, but you won’t be able to go inside of them.”

                      Sounds like the MP to me ..

                      There is further prophecy of the real actual restoration of the Local Russian Church however their Episcopate has to get cleaned up and today that just is not the case.

                    • Yes Michael Warren, It all does sound like what was that again, “Red Symphonia”?> .. Just when you think you heard ’em all then again, a new one, oh well .. (so what “instruments” do they play, the hammer sickle nails?) ..

                      Most of your references to “ROCOR” are not ROCOR, its ROCOR-MP, two different things. Historical ROCOR ran through most of the tenure of Met. Vitaliy, then with Laurus all the betrayal commenced and was finalized in 2007. In early days of ROCOR there were the “moles” but they were only digging small little ditches but there was that work.

                      With Met. Laurus it all came out in the open. First, when the relics of St. Metropolitan Filaret were being transferred at Jordanville and were uncovered after 13 years and not only were found to be incorrupt even his white “mantia” if I have the correct term, the white shroud metropolitans wear, was not discolored however perfectly white, after 13 years underground. Thus St. Metropolitan Filaret was found to be a manifest saint. The Jordanville monks marveled and they wished to have this open, shown for everyone to see, and for some unknown reason whatever it was, some “protocol” or something, Laurus gave his diocesan Archbishop orders to keep the coffin closed for the service and the transference.

                      When Met. Laurus traveled to Russia and had residential accommodations from ROCOR he deferred to stay with MP accommodations. When one time he was asked about ecumenism and the WCC he responded, “how many people had the MP converted to Orthodoxy in the WCC? (0). That was maybe his one last small vestige of having been a ROCOR hierarch from what I recall.

                      Lets recall that St. John of Shanghai and SF had himself pretty much single handedly brought or counseled the synod to elect at that time a less or even least senior bishop Filaret to become ROCOR Metropolitan. Every now and then its good to read his “Sorrowful Epistles” and I think especially now as much as ever, to get “grounded” and that is a New Years resolution.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      St. Lavrenty of Chernigov was faithful to the Mother Russia Orthodox Church of St. Tikhon, +Patriarch Sergius and +Patriarch Alexis I

                      … [St. Lavrenty of Chernigov] he was indeed a light of the Orthodox Faith and its bulwark and champion, for he himself never wavered in the unity of the Church and did not associate with the Living Church-Renovationists or the Ukrainian nationalist-self-ordained groups.2 He strengthened the faithful in Orthodoxy. He said that—according to St. Theodosius’ (of Chernigov’s) example—one must hold to unity and not split off. He was always faithful to the Moscow Patriarchate, and enjoined everyone to do the same. …


                    • Michael Warren says

                      St. Lavrenty of Chernigov (d. +1950)on the “Ukrainian Orthodox” Calling ALL to Unity with the Russian Orthodox Mother Church, the Moscow Patriarchate

                      … Batiushka used to say further: “As it is impossible to divide the Most Holy Trinity, Father and Son and Holy Spirit, for it is One God, so also it is impossible to divide Russia, the Ukraine and Belorussia, for these together are Holy Rus’. Know, remember, and do not forget.
                      “There was never any Patriarch in the city of Kiev—the Patriarchs were in Moscow and lived in Moscow. Beware of Ukrainian samosviatsky15 groups (churches) and the Unia.”

                      The Vicar of the Kiev Caves Lavra, Fr. Kronid, took objection to Batiushka’s words, because the samosviaty and the Uniates had already vanished in the Ukraine. Batiushka answered mournfully and sadly, “A demon will enter them and they will take up arms with satanic malice against the Orthodox Faith and Church, but they will have a disgraceful end, while their followers will suffer heavenly retribution from the Lord, King of the Heavenly Hosts.”

                      What precious words of Batiusha’s—they are priceless! Batiushka foresaw everything and knew everything ahead of time. Now a Ukrainian samosviat self-ordained hierarch has appeared, calling himself the [head of] the Kiev Patriarchate—and where, no less? In America. He doesn’t know and has forgotten that there has never been a Patriarch in Kiev… We, however, need to bring to everyone’s attention: How could there be a Kiev Patriarch in America?! And some people cry out in their folly, to their eternal torment and to their shame: “Our Patriarch.”

                      Batiushka forewarned us to be faithful to the Moscow Patriarchate and under no circumstances to enter any schism. He warned that the hierarchs and priests who have led the faithful into a revolt have done great harm to themselves and have brought a multitude of Orthodox souls to perdition. …

                      Note the prophesy regarding what is now happening in the Ukraine.


                    • Michael Warren says

                      St. Lavrenty Rejected the legitimacy of ROCOR and its claims, insisting on fidelity to the Mother Church, the Moscow Patriarchate:

                      … Batiushka forewarned us to be faithful to the Moscow Patriarchate and under no circumstances to enter any schism. He warned that the hierarchs and priests who have led the faithful into a revolt have done great harm to themselves and have brought a multitude of Orthodox souls to perdition.

                      “Be cautious of the so-called Church Abroad, and know that it is not in the Diptych of the Orthodox Churches.16 It is not a church, but part of the Russian Church.17 Our much-suffering Church held its own in the godless state. To her [the Church] be honor and glory and eternal praise! Our country is not abroad, and our Church is not abroad! Our country has never ceased to exist! We do not have any “abroad” churches.. ..

                      St. Lavrenty viewed “Catacomb, ‘Authentic Orthodox’ as SCHISMATICS WITH AN HERETICAL ECCLESIOLOGY:

                      …“The ‘Free Church’ is a heretical name.18 All our churches and monasteries are Orthodox, even the closed ones and the desecrated ones.

                      “The only ones who go into schism and heresy are those unworthy of God’s mercy, and are great sinners, who do not want to know: “I believe in One Holy Catholic (“conciliar”) and Apostolic Church!” Nor do they wish to know that the Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ (can it be possible to divide the Body of Christ?), and finally, that the Church is the seamless robe of the Lord (which, although Arius tried, one must not divide).

                      “And they do not remember, that there is One God, one Faith and Baptism.19

                      “The Lord Jesus Christ created one Church (and not churches), over which even the gates of hell cannot prevail. There is only one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The others, which call themselves churches, are not churches, but tares of the devil among the wheat, and an assembly of the devil.”

                      At these words, Batiushka said a prayer for all who have gone astray from or renounced Orthodoxy; he began to cry and said, “No, the Lord will not call them to repentance, they will not be saved, for they are unworthy of God’s mercy. This was revealed to me by the Queen of Heaven and my holy Guardian Angel.” Batiushka testified: “The Queen of Heaven has appeared to me several times, has visited me both by Herself, and with the Archangels Michael and Gabriel.” “In those who have gone astray from and have renounced the True Faith20 there is no salvation or receiving of the Kingdom of Heaven. We, the Orthodox, do not need anything—only the Orthodox Faith, the salvation of our souls, and to receive the Kingdom of Heaven. And we have all this in our Mother, the Russian Orthodox Church. Thanks be to God! But to break off from it and leave it is the greatest sin, which is unforgivable both in this life and in the life to come—it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.” …

                      St. Lavrenty pities the blind vitriole of so-called “Authentic Orthodox” schismatics:

                      And at this Batiushka lit up with a light not of this world, finishing his conversation with the words, “Hear thou and see!” as the Holy Evangelist says, and added: “They will be deaf and blind!”21


                    • Michael Warren says

                      This is how St. Lavrenty of Chernigov prophesied this period in Russian history to be:

                      … Russia, together with all the Slavic nations and lands, will constitute a mighty Tsardom (kingdom). At its helm will be an Orthodox Tsar, Anointed of God. The Tsar will be from God. All schisms and heresies will vanish in Russia. There will not be any persecution of the Orthodox Church. The Lord will have mercy on Holy Rus’, because in her there had been the horrible, terrible time preceding the antichrist. The great regiment of the Martyrs and Confessors has shown forth, beginning with the highest spiritual and civil ranks. Metropolitan and Tsar, priest and monk, children and even nursing infants, ending with laypeople. All these will beseech the Lord God the King of Hosts, the King of Kings, glorified in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

                      One must firmly understand that Russia is one of the portions24 of the Queen of Heaven, and She cares for and intercedes for it especially. The whole choir of Russian Saints, together with the Mother of God, begs [the Lord] to spare and have mercy on Russia.

                      There will be a flowering of the Orthodox Faith and the former rejoicing will return—only for a short time. For the Dread Judge will come to judge the living and the dead.

                      The Russian Orthodox Tsar will be feared even by the antichrist himself.

                      During the times of the antichrist, Russia will be the most powerful Kingdom in the world. But the other countries—except for Russia and the Slavic lands—will be under the power of the antichrist and will experience all the horrors and torments described in Holy Scripture. Russia, repent! Glorify God with rejoicing, and sing to Him: Alleluia. …


                    • Michael Warren says

                      Historical ROCOR did not deny the legitimacy of the Moscow Patriarchate:

                        “Is the Moscow Patriarchate a Church?
                                When this question is brought up, it immediately begs the question — if it is not a Church, when did it stop being a Church?
                                No one seriously doubts that the Moscow Patriarchate headed by Patriarch Tikhon was the legitimate canonical Church of Russia.
                                No one seriously doubts that Metropolitan Peter was the legitimate Locum Tenens of the Patriarchal Throne.
                                No one seriously doubts that Metropolitan Sergius was the legitimate Deputy (or Vice) Locum Tenens of the Patriarchal Throne, according to the instructions of Metropolitan Peter.
                                So–when did he and his Synod become **not** the Church?
                                Certainly not as a result of his signing the “Declaration” of 1927.
                                The Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia absolutely did not think so, since it addressed an Epistle to the Flock in 1933 (six years **after** the Declaration), where it says:
                      “We are taking fully into account the extraordinary difficulties of the position of Metropolitan Sergius, who is now the de facto head of the Church of Russia, and are aware of the heavy burden of responsibility for the fate of the latter, which lies upon him. No one, therefore, has the audacity to accuse him for the mere attempt to enter into dialogue with the Soviet regime so as to obtain legal standing for the Church of Russia. Not without foundation does the deputy locum tenens of the Patriarchal Throne say in his aforementioned Declaration that only “armchair dreamers can think that such a vast community as our Orthodox Church, with all its organization, can exist peacefully in a country while walling itself off from the authorities.”
                                Certainly the Moscow Patriarchate was not considered by the Church Abroad to be “not the Church” in 1938, when the Bishops’ Sobor Abroad issued the following resolution:
                      “DISCUSSED: concelebration with the clergymen of the jurisdiction of Metropolitan Sergius and his Synod.
                      METROPOLITAN ANASTASSY points out that clergymen arriving from Russia from this jurisdiction are immediately admitted into prayerful communion, and refers to the opinion of Metropolitan Kirill of Kazan in his epistle, published in Tserkovnaya Zhizn’ [Church Life], that Metropolitan Sergius’ sin does not extend to the clergymen under him.
                      DECREED: To recognize that there are no obstacles to prayerful communion and concelebration with clergymen of Metropolitan Sergius.”
                                Now, some say that the Moscow Patriarchate became “not a Church” from 1943, from the time that Stalin permitted the restoration of the Patriarchate.
                                But, ten years later, it is clear that the Church Abroad did not consider the Moscow Patriarchate to be **not** the Church. In 1953, at the Bishops’ Sobor, Metropolitan Anastassy said the following:
                      “Do we recognize in principle the authenticity of the ordinations of today’s Patriarch and his bishops? But can we even question them? Then we would have to declare the entire Church without grace. Do we have the audacity to declare her entirely without grace? Until now we have not posed this question so radically. . .
                      “They say that Patriarch Alexy sinned more than his predecessor.  Whether he sinned more or less, we cannot deny his ordination. Much is said of their apostasy. But we must be cautious. We can hardly make an outright accusation of apostasy. In no place do they affirm atheism. In their published sermons they attempt to hold to the Orthodox line. They took and continue to take very strict measures with regard to the obnovlentsy, and did not tear their ties with Patriarch Tikhon. The false policy belongs to the church authority and the responsibility for it falls on its leaders. Only heresy adopted by the whole Church tarnishes the whole Church. In this case, the people are not responsible for the behavior of the leaders, and the Church, as such, remains unblemished.”


                    • Michael Warren says

                      St. John of San Francisco on the Moscow Patriarchate:

                      …Argument 2 – the Moscow Patriarchate is the creation of the Soviet Government
                       “The post-Declaration “Church” was wholly the creation of the Soviet power, conceived to further its own evil designs.  Following in the same model was the “restoration” of the “patriarchate”, at Stalin’s behest.”
                                Since the bishops of the MP were not consecrated by Stalin himself, it is obviously not true that the Synod of Metropolitan Sergius was “wholly the creation of the Soviet power”.  And how was his synod more the creation of Soviet power than the Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate the creation of Islamic power after the fall of Constantinople?  Need it be pointed out that the Ecumenical Patriarch was an official of the Turkish government, who levied taxes on the Christians on behalf of the state… a state which was actively destroying Churches or converting them to Mosques, rounding up Christian boys and raising them as Moslems soldiers who were then used to persecute  their own people, and stealing Christian girls and sending them off to harems… or worse.  Do we wish to forget that the bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate were forced to purchase their offices from the Turks who gave them to the highest bidder (which is expressly forbidden by the canons), and to raise that money from the already abused and downtrodden Christians under the Turkish Yoke?  Need we be reminded that the Ecumenical Patriarch was forced to excommunicate the Greek revolutionaries who revolted against the Turks in order to throw off the yoke of the Moslems?  And when you look at what is left of Christianity in Turkey today and compare it with what is left in Russia, as a simple matter of objectivity, one must conclude that the Turks did a far more thorough job of destroying the Church there than the Communists did in Russia.
                                Now, perhaps someone will object that this is an illegitimate analogy.  However, this is precisely the analogy that St. John (Maximovitch) himself applied to the situation:
                      “Did not a similar thing occur in Greece? Why did the Church of Greece arise and why does it exist as an autocephalous Church, whereas its territory from antiquity was a part of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople? When in 1819-20 there was a rebellion of the Greeks against the Turks, the Turkish government demanded of the Patriarch the excommunication of the rebellious Greeks, and the Patriarch fulfilled this. Although the Greeks well knew that he was only outwardly fulfilling what was demanded of him, remaining heart and soul with them, nonetheless, declaring his interdicts invalid, they began to govern themselves ecclesiastically independently of him; and when a government of Greece was formed, an independent Church of Greece was established.” …

                      …And St. John of Shanghai, who was well aware of the failings of Metropolitan Sergius, nevertheless went briefly into communion with Patriarchate Alexei I, when he thought that ROCOR had ceased to exists after World War II… and so evidently, he believed that they were a legitimate Church:
                      “At the end of July last year we received news that the hierarchs in Harbin had decided to ask His Holiness Patriarch Alexis to receive them under his jurisdiction. We immediately wrote to Archbishop Victor that, since we do not have any information about the fate of the Synod Abroad and since we don’t have the right to remain outside submission to a higher church authority, we also must enter into contact with His Holiness the Patriarch of Moscow and should there be no impediments [pri otsutstvii prepyatsviy] submit to him. After the Exaltation of the Cross we received a radiogram from Geneva from Metropolitan Anastassy with news that the Synod is functioning. Aware of the necessity of submitting to a higher church authority, we renewed our previous relations with the Synod Abroad. We received separate instructions and directives from the Synod, which we put into effect.  We can go over to the jurisdiction of another church authority only if we have a directive to do so from the church authority to which we currently submit, for otherwise we would be acting in violation of the Church’s canons.”…


                    • Michael Warren says

                      In 2000, the Mother Church, the Moscow Patriarchate, condemned the heresy of ecumenism:

                      …The so-called “branch theory”, which is connected with the conception referred to above and asserts the normal and even providential nature of Christianity existing in the form of particular “branches”, is also totally unacceptable. Orthodoxy cannot accept that Christian divisions are caused by the inevitable imperfections of Christian history and that they exist only on the historical surface and can be healed or overcome by compromises between denominations. The Orthodox Church cannot recognize “the equality of the denominations”. Those who have fallen away from the Church cannot re-unite with her in their present state. The existing dogmatic differences should be overcome, not simply bypassed, and this means that the way to unity lies through repentance, conversion and renewal.  Also unacceptable is the idea that all the divisions are essentially tragic misunderstandings, that disagreements seem irreconcilable only because of a lack of mutual love and a reluctance to realize that, in spite of all the differences and dissimilarities, there is sufficient unity and harmony in “what is most important”. Our divisions cannot be reduced to human passions, to egoism, much less to cultural, social and political circumstances which are secondary from the Church’s point of view. Also unacceptable is the argument that the Orthodox Church differs from other Christian communities with which she does not have communion only in secondary matters. The divisions and differences cannot all be reduced to various non-theological factors…. It is inadmissible to introduce relativism into the realm of faith, to limit unity in faith to a narrow set of necessary truths so that beyond them “freedom in what is doubtful” may be allowed.” …


                      The only acceptable modes of interreligious dialogue and cooperation are as a means of witness of Orthodoxy and cooperation in charitable endeavors and matters of social justice.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      +Metropolitan Philaret and his father, +Metropolitan Dmitri, both submitted to the Mother Church and administered the HOLY Mysteries under her omophorion. +Metropolitan Dmitri died in Communion with the Mother Church, the Moscow Patriarchate, denouncing ROCOR as a schismatic and uncanonical assembly.

                      Did +Metropolitan Philaret then commit apostasy and administer false sacraments? The Holy Canons mandate deposition for apostasy, schism, rebellion for concelebration with schismatics and heretics. Why he condemned such things in his “Sorrowful Epistles”?! ROCOR’s Anathema of Ecumenism condemns such clerics. Was +Metropolitan Philaret “KGB ecumenist in a cassock” and a “false priest of Stalin’s church?!” Some rather self-serving inconsistencies here which canonically indict schismatic screeds. Did he believe his father was an apostate and died in sergianist heresy? How could they have recognized the Patriarchate as canonical if the Eastern Rite foil hats are legitimately “the true Russian Church”? But +Metropolitan Philaret was a patriarchal Priest, who was not required to be chrismated when he returned to ROCOR?! He didn’t even recant his “schism”?! Yet he is incorrupt?! How can a Priest of the ” false Stalinist Church” who has not repented of his “error” be a Saint?!

                      …A Priest of the Patriarchal Church (1945-1961)
                      In 1945 the Red Army defeated the Japanese Army and the Chinese Communists began to
                      take control of Manchuria. All Russian Orthodox automatically passed from the jurisdiction
                      of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia to the Moscow Patriarchate, … At this time Fr Philaret was the rector of the church of the Iveron Icon in Harbin in the
                      jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarchate. …


                    • Michael Warren, your ..

                      “St. Lavrenty of Chernigov was faithful to the Mother Russia Orthodox Church of St. Tikhon, +Patriarch Sergius and +Patriarch Alexis I”

                      Sorry, it does not work that way. Met. Sergius “BROKE” communion with the the Holy Martyrs of Patriarch Tichon’s Historical ROC. So choose one, or choose the other …. you cannot have both. As far as Lavrenty goes, I do not know him, he only had that one uncanny prophesy about the false MP churches of today. Pre MP ROCOR did not canonize him. I do not have his icon and have no plan to obtain one. He may be “holy,” I don’t know, so I will pass.

                      As far as MP goes, St. Metropolitan Filaret fell just short of formally declaring them without “Grace” however that was the predominant sentiment.

                      All your “Ukranian stuff” I glossed it, too much stuff there outside my purview. I recall there was a Fr. Dudko and here in the “Zarubyezhia – Diaspora” he created some stir and some excitement that someone was “wakening” behind the Iron Curtain and people were jumping on his bandwagon. Met. St. Filaret counseled for caution. In the end Dudko wound up with MP and so that ended up not panning out.

                      All your “histories” of Lavrenty come from Soviet Press. The Soviets were the most prolific liars about everything in all of Human History, so all those stories, its all “Pravda” and “Izvestia.”

                      About the return of the Russian Tsar around the time of Anti-Christ yes there are those prophesies, and St. Seraphim of Sarov also will resurrect. That time is not here yet today. First, MP has to get cleaned up and the Sergianism/ecumenism has to get “cleaned up.”

                      Today, the MP is the largest member church of the WCC. As such, it pays the highest member dues. Thus MP supports the establishment and the existence of the WCC and the “Mission Statement” of the WCC, they have some other name for it but same thing, is “branch theory ecumenism.”
                      When Tsar comes around there will be a complete total 100% withdrawal.

                      Your statement:
                      “Historical ROCOR did not deny the legitimacy of the Moscow Patriarchate:”

                      If you were in Historical ROCOR and travelled to USSR and took communion you would have to repent and likely get “Epityimya – penance.”

                      When ROCOR canonized the Holy martyrs in the 1980’s amongst them was St. Joseph of Petrograd Hierarch. He had the famous quote: “Metropolitan Sergius is a murderer of the Church.” Today, whether they like it or not, because of the “Unia” MP also has to recognize him as a saint.

                      Your statement:

                      “No one seriously doubts that Metropolitan Sergius was the legitimate Deputy (or Vice) Locum Tenens of the Patriarchal Throne, according to the instructions of Metropolitan Peter.

                      So–when did he and his Synod become **not** the Church?

                      Certainly not as a result of his signing the “Declaration” of 1927.”

                      Wrong again .. Soviet history book lies .. Met. Sergius was lower in rank and was leap-frogged by the Soviets into leadership and when in leadership he abused and usurped powers not entitled for him to have. Next ..


                      “We can hardly make an outright accusation of apostasy. In no place do they affirm atheism.”

                      Soviets have always mastered the art of saying one thing with their lips while their hands do the entirely opposite other thing .. next ..

                      Yes St. John may have erred in China with his one time commemoration of MP. Mistake was never repeated. Your, and this is a doozy ..

                      “Since the bishops of the MP were not consecrated by Stalin himself” ..

                      You mean that devil? All under his auspices!

                      OK, I’m not going to get into all the Turks stuff and Greek stuff, too many twists and turns there and stuff out of context.

                      I know some things about Met. St. Filaret and his father. Tough times, tough decisions and it was like being between a rock and a hard place. Suffice to say, the Historical ROCOR pre-MP when it gained its ground and footing at the synod building in NY was unequivocally and completely and totally outside of communion with the MP. The MP was never referred to as “Mother Church.” To take MP communion would not have been like a “placebo” communion however by far much worse, it would be a communion unto “condemnation” for anyone of the faithful flock of the ROCOR. Now for people in the Soviet Union who are themselves only pious orthodox christians and not knowing what is what that I believe was regarded differently and we can say the Lord can always sort that out. Perhaps maybe even for some MP clergy who were not the outright agents of the KGB.

                      Yes I do hear the soviets bandy about their term “schismatics” all the time. Lenin Stalin Stragorodsky Khrushev and all their gulags and all the millions of innocent people they murdered sure, they are your real “canonical” christians for you right? You really think they go into the Afterlife where you would want to be yourself? Careful, in “matters of Faith” you will have to answer for every word!

                    • You write well, Americans are not going to know what you mean by “organs”: “lungs” maybe.
                      Is NCC something like Northern Council of Churches, all those within 150 miles of the Arctic Circle? Don’t know that one. Also AHEPA archons? Sounds like Star Wars, give me a little help here.

                    • Just another point here, your:

                      “Historical ROCOR did not deny the legitimacy of the Moscow Patriarchate:

                      “Is the Moscow Patriarchate a Church?

                      When this question is brought up, it immediately begs the question — if it is not a Church, when did it stop being a Church?”

                      Answer to your question: The “Moscow Patriarchate” and its designation as such is complete total entire “construct” of the soviet communists. The ROC under Patriarch Tichon was never called “The Moscow Patriarchate.” Therefore, “Moscow Patriarchate” is a fiction in Church terms of no canonical validity just as the designate title for Stragorodsky as “Patriarch” also is a fiction as well, a Soviet invention, “renovation” of no validity. So to “stop being a Church” you have to be One in the first place and the MP as “MP” never actually was. There was the Catacomb Church in Russia, those are all the Holy martyrs, Hiero martyrs, Confessors that were all canonized by ROCOR. Inside the “MP” no one was canonized, …. not a single one ….!

                      The MP “canonizations” of the martyr-confessors are all invalid because its all hypocrisy. They “canonize” the persecutors of the persecuted, both sides of the fence, they completely invalidate the trials and tribulations of the actual real Martyrs and Confessors in effect saying there was no need for your efforts, you just should have joined the Stragorodsky-KGB club in the first place and save some suffering.

                      Does this mean that on aggregate the whole entirety of the MP was not part of the Church in any way? That is not what anyone is saying, its their “Episcopacy” and “hierarchy” that was and is the fraud, anathematized. People in Soviet times who attended those churches not really having too many options, catacomb churches were heavily guarded, kept secret, and when uncovered persecuted with severe cruelty while if some old ladies “babushkas” went to an MP church they could have been left alone, if though you had any kind of position in the Soviet Union, a job, a family, it would be dangerous for you to go to any church however by far much more safe to an open soviet state sanctioned MP church, for the Catacomb one you go straight to concentration camp.

                      So your “MP” church actually never “ceased” being a Church because the “MP” part of the Church was never any part of the Church in the first place .. the “MP” part was the Stalinist Soviet KGB administration and all their “Episcopacy” all KGB guys, “Mihailov” “Topaz” “Drozdov” “Antonov” etc.etc. Stragorodsky’s elevation to “Patriarch” by all these KGB guys is a complete total fraud. In his earlier days when he was an actual bishop of the ROC, before any “MP,” he was one of the original “Renovationists” of the pre-Revolutionary times himself a revolutionary and he did .. repent .. and was brought back into the fold of the ROC under Patriarch Tichon. So he only reverted to his old “renovationism” under the communists, became a repeat offender, that was his history. For the Church in Russia to move forward that part of History has to be revisited and they need to make changes. Today it is like that one strarets had prophesied, the churches will sparkle inside out “but you cannot go to them.”

                    • Michael Warren says

                      The quotes are not of myself. They are of historical personages whom you cited as primary sources and your authorities. Your authorities condemn you as a prevaricator, as a schismatic, as a heretic. They reject your ecclesiology and call the Orthodox people to avoid institutions you support as schismatic and graceless. They condemn views like yours as heretical. They tell Orthodox people to ignore and avoid everything you stand for. You cited them as your authorities. They are YOUR quotes. They condemn you as schismatic and heretical.

                      There is nothing more to say. You are not Orthodox. No amount of Eastern Rite foil hat lies and Russophobic hate will contradict that. St. Lavrenty of Chernigov calls you a heretic. +Metropolitan Dmitri, rejects you as a schismatic and a heretic. +Metropolitan Philaret communed people like myself while sending people like you away from the Chalice telling them to repent of schism and to reunite with the Orthodox Church. While people like you persecuted St. John and tried to have him imprisoned for building a church in San Francisco because they said “he was Moscow”s man.”

                      I despise the schisms spawned by ROCOR’s sanctimonious division of Orthodox Christians. It is a sin. ROCOR is guilty. In this guilt it is fundamentally compromised becoming illegitimate. You don’t even know what an archon is, and, yet, here you are playing the “last Orthodox living room on earth card” saying 70% of the Orthodox world is graceless along with the other 30% in Communion with it because they reject everything your vagante bishops stand for and dismiss them as quacks. On the Nativity no less. What more need be said about the demonized hate and ignorance you espouse? Your total lack of honesty and fidelity to Orthodoxy? Your preposterous ignorance of facts you keep ignoring? You are unwell spiritually and mentally.

                      You write hateful, non sequiter sectarian nonsense lying and prevaricating akin to a member of nameworshipping HOCNA.

                      Now let me make myself clearer. I despise the schismatic, politization perpetrated by ROCOR. I reject historical ROCOR’s ecclesiological statements in toto from +Anthony to +Philaret to +Laurus. All of them rejected your Eastern Rite dispensationalist replacement theology. I recognize ONLY the podvig of piety lived by some in ROCOR and respect SOME of their traditional emphases on obryad and liturgics. That’s it. After that, ROCOR for me becomes nothing more than a church of would be false dmitris working with everyone from the Gestapo to the CIA to the MOSSAD pursuing Western, RUSSOPHOBIC AND ANTI ORTHODOX, GODLESS, political agendas, clutching to Russian liberal pretensions, while condemning the Russian people and Russian church who reject both their White movement and their sycophancy to Western governments and cultures. ROCOR is treasonous Russian Orthodox collaborationist vlasovism. Their history is nothing but schism and betrayal of Russia and her people. They prayed for the victory of Adolph Hitler. They pray for the gay crusade and Western conquest of Russia. All this while feigning condemnation of “sergianism” where THEY THEMSELVES ARE ITS MAIN EXPONENTS! America’s godless successes are their ROCOR successes. America’s godless sorrows are their sorrows. Knowing how to sing red, white, blue uber alles in all eight tones is requisite to membership in ROCOR. Here you are proving it.

                      ROCOR endorses with wreckless abandon the caesaropapism of the Petrine Church, lamenting the end of the Synodal era with its totalitarian and secular oberprocurators. But somehow abolition of that heretical system and reestablishment of the Moscow Patriarchate is illegitimate?! ROCOR is schism founded on hypocrisy betraying Russia because the ousted gentry sold its soul abroad and demanded the dismantling of a Russia they were not welcome in. ROCOR’s political legacy is a heretical blemish on the history of Russian Orthodoxy, having a moral equivalency akin to the Brest Unia making pretensions to Calvin’s theocracy in Geneva. Its legacy is politicization, treason, schism and inconsistent sanctimony. As such I reject its positions regarding Russian Orthodoxy for they are indicted by ROCOR’s lack of fidelity to Russian Orthodoxy and to the Russian people.

                      So I won’t be going down the rabbit holes of proof texts and White pretensions. The Grabbes lost all legitimacy when they betrayed the Tsar Martyr and went over to the White February Revolution to get their share of souls, wealth and power in a pleibescite unlawfully staged by the British Foreign Office. Manufacturing documents from Grabbes’ study with ink stamped signatures is something I laugh to scorn. I refer you to the Phanar so that Istanbul can provide you with photos of Grabbe with Athenagoras proferring such documents to the EP signed “+Metropolitan Philaret” apologizing for the “offense caused” by his Sorrowful Epistles “beseeching the great master’s mercy and forgiveness.” ROCOR was founded by those who betrayed Russia and perpetrated treason. People ready to play any side which they could benefit from. Ecclesiology and sanctimony for hire. Thirty pieces of silver will suffice.

                      The only canonical path forward for ROCOR is full integration into the Mother Church or integration into local churches where it maintains its presence. Until it does so it precariously walks the tightrope of TEMPORARY, provisional status made possible by the 39th. Canon of the Sixth Ecumenical Council and schism. ROCOR is not a legitimate authority and further beating the drums of preposterous claims it itself has condemned as schismatic and rejected is an asinine exercise in sectarian hubris. I refer people obsessed with such Eastern Rite Protestant GIGO to exorcists.

                      I AM WHAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU TERM AN UNAPOLOGETIC “SERGIANIST.” I am faithful to the Russian Orthodox Church, to the Russian Orthodox peoples and to Russia. In doing so I emphasize my fidelity to Traditional Orthodoxy, my defense of all Orthodox peoples, my rejection of everything but the furtherance of an Orthodox worldview. That means I recognize the sovereignty of the Russian people to form their own government while being faithful to their Church and as faithful Orthodox Christians be patriotic, productive citizens of their country. I view the Church’s recognition of the peoples’ sovereignty and cooperation with the peoples’ government as necessary, legitimate and fully in keeping with the Orthodox understanding of respecting all authority as given by GOD. Anything less is unChristian and heterodox.

                      For me people who bless murdering Orthodox Christians for governments which symbolize their might with white stars (or swastikas) is indeed less legitimate than Orthodox peoples who symbolize their self-chosen state with a red star. The one wars to subjugate Orthodox peoples, even ethnically cleanse them. The other to prosper, save and protect them and their posterity. So ROCOR’s sergianism is a cowardly and traitorous exponent of Orthodox genocide! Documents from Hitler’s Reichstag shout that. Soviet peoples patriotic to the Motherland and to Orthodoxy necessarily have a legitimate, Soviet Orthodox church as a development of Russian Orthodoxy continuing its model in historical development from AD 988 Kiev.

                      Lest we get caught up in semantics, the word Soviet means council or congress which affirms democratic, representative government and is not an exclusively Bolshevik or Marxist term. The US Congress could be translated as the US Soviet (and should be).

                      With this our exchange comes to an end. I reject you and everything you stand for as a betrayal of Orthodoxy, as loathesome sectarian hate, as the agitprop of Russophobic American fascism. Your 20 people with 25 vagante bishops assembled in a dillipidated garage trafficking in lies and Russophobia clutching on to the ragged coat tails of a self condemned and self renounced, political organism you worship as an idol have nothing in common with Orthodoxy, which you are not a part of.

                    • reestablishment of the Moscow Patriarchate is illegitimate?! ..,

                      Are you asking me? yes

                    • gee, such powerful words but you ended your sentence with the preposition “of,” always
                      considered a grammatical mistake so it wounds up sounding phony.

                    • Michael Warren, you are all over the map. I can scroll have my finger land on one of your
                      paragraphs and its all “Izvestia” .. also when you really really try to make some strong point your syntax is like the robot in “Lost In Space” ..”Will Robinson it does not compute.”!! If you really think you are right then you don’t have to be so defensive and write long convoluted arguments.

              • Cy:

                I think you seriously need to look at cutting back on your usage of “uber ales.”! Probably, most people have no clue what it means and anyway it just sounds too propagandistic and antiquated.

                If Michael Warren changed the way he writes so as not to sound propagandistic and antiquated, what would be left over?

                • Only oxymorons ..

                • Michael Warren says

                  Antiquated and archaic, but paying America’s bills and keeping the Western capitalist system from collapsing because both Keynesian monetary and fiscal policy have utterly failed and have been antiquated and archaic for 70 years? Typical liberal denial of the FACT of the obsolescence and stupidity of Western liberalism.

                  • Your economics in this regard is delusional. Russia’s entire GDP is like only that of Time Warner cable AOL by itself or so I recall hearing that this was the case at one point, today I don’t know so lets just suffice it to say Russia’s GDP is only a teeny tiny fraction of that of the US. Russia’s entire GDP I’m sure however could qualify it being as one of the companies on the DOW Jones Industrial Average and probably only just about that.

                    United States indeed has massive political/economic waste and corruption and market manipulation by multitudes of agencies and entities and thats all really due on the one hand to the “neo-Cons” who went into the Middle East and to this day create enormous chaos and loss and all of that with the majority of Democrats signing-on. Today we have the “neo-Soviet” Barrack Obama who does what all good “neo-Soviets” do, get us soon to be 20 Trillion in debt.
                    If the next “neo-Soviet” Hillary Clinton gets into office we will be looking at 40 Trillion debt. Yes everyone in the White House today, their cabinet, administration, all can be aptly described as
                    “neo-Soviet.” Obamacare, half the country on Food Stamps, never ending taxations, Wall Street thievery and bailouts, zero interest rates for already 8 years, Supreme Court and all the Marxist rulings they make, on and on, its all what can be well described as “neo-Soviet.”

                    • Michael Warren says

                      I was talking about China. The Western capitalist system will collapse without Soviet Chinese money. So your tactless russophobia just fell flat.

                      Russian GDP is rebounding and in 25 years will surpass US GDP. In all actuality, since US debt is now greater than 100% of US GDP, Russia has greater real GDP today. China has a larger economy and an increasingly greater standard of living. Guess socialism WORKs and works better…

                      So all of your Russophobic Red Baiting just collapsed. You are singing red, white and blue uber alles in your own echo chamber out of key. And your McCivilization will be gone by the end of the century. You will live to witness the world rise up against the evil empire called the United States of America and celebrate its Independence Day.

                    • Ha ha, again, the delusion never ends ..

                      Is that your Leninist “25 year – dvadzatipyatiletka” ha ha, what a joke!
                      China is China, their stock market seems to jump up and down everyday 25-40%!!

                      US does indeed have a budget economy crisis, too many “communists” and “soviets” or “social democrats” in our government, bankrupting it with soviet style socialism. At the end of the day, what is a Soviet? A neo-Soviet? A Communist?

                      Answer: NOTHING. All the one and the same thing. Old saying “no matter how you dress a pig and put lipstick on it, eyeliner, high heeled shoes etc. Its still a pig.”

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Concepts have been defined for you and the only nothing is your lack of comprehension (and point).

                      Soviet China buys the bonds that keep the American government in business with social democratic, workers’ money. Its currency is replacing the dollar as a global, reserve currency. It is the world’s largest economy with an increasingly higher standard of living. Without its Social Democratic, Soviet success, the Western capitalist system will fall. The only reason for some instability in its markets is carrying the burden of American debt which will reach Weimer junk bond status within a decade following the current neoliberal, monetary policies. The fear is Western capitalism declaring default it is so bankrupt. Seems socialism is the only thing working these days.

                      No, it isn’t a 25 year plan really, because today, factoring in American debt as over 100% GDP means America is bankrupt, meaning nations like Russia with growing economies, not laden with debt are absolutely more prosperous. Your debt is a claim on national wealth. Reading things slowly and getting your mind out of the paranoia of identifying CFR’s pernicious hand in the global, communist conspiracy might get your mind out of the gutter of American fascist GIGO. Probably not.

                  • Michael Warren, actually on some things political I can find some agreement with you in some of your posts. I know US is not doing well, economically, politically, culturally, and then with all its war agendas and so forth. So when Ron Paul came around and I read his “End the Fed” I agreed with all of that and became “Libertarian-Independent” where I am today. Trump has a few things going for him, he takes on “Political Correctness” which I like, because militant PC, thats just like what you had in the USSR, when at assemblies the hand clapping after a Stalin speech lasted half an hour everyone was afraid to be the first to stop. Putin meanwhile appears to have Russian National Interests at hand, it appears, certainly he was the antidote to Boris Yeltsin stopping the cavalcade to go behind the bushes. One US politician whom I disdain had quipped “Russia is only a big gas station” and I think on that point there was some truth to that.

                    Why doesn’t Russia make something, manufacture something it could export and sell? Look at your what was that again, “uber ales” Germans? Mercedes Benz. BMW. Volvo. Audi. Volkswagen. And then your Russians .. Volga? (they say its pretty durable, do the windshield wipers do more than turn on turn off?) Moskvitch? Zhugali? How about a smart phone or something? Right now the only thing I see Russia exporting besides gas and oil are those dolls you open up to find a smaller one until finally at the end there is a shot of vodka.

                    • also Red White and Blue ales is the Dodge Charger and Plymouth Road Runner, Corvette and
                      GTO, American hot rods. All the cars from the 50’s Chevrolets Buicks and Cadillacs. Motorcycles its pretty much only Harley, I ride a Sportster, its my American Machine.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      We manufacture something as well: a whole lot of unpayable debt.

                      What will happen too our manufacturing base when the default comes?

                    • George,

                      We know that. Its our politicians. A “balanced budget” amendment was on the Senate floor and should be a complete total 100% no-brainer! The liberal-dem-neo-con politicians all want blank checks either for military spending or entitlement spending or any other kind of spending. American voter does not vote in the candidates that have some sense of fiscal responsibility only the ones promoted in the media and the ones who make promises for more spending on everything. Americans have a hard time understanding the concept that paying “interest” is money as good as tossed into the fire place, you get nothing for your interest payment while the flip side of that your banks, financial institutions, hedge funds clean up. Of Course when people buy a home and finance that, maybe even an automobile you may need financing and your “interest” pays for you being able to have a home and car sooner than later, you write off interest and so forth however the American “culture” and “brain wash” is to max out your credit cards for outings to nice restaurants and just expenditures that are not necessary, they teach that is how you increase your FICO. Obama seems to take an Air Force One Hawaii vacation or Martha vacation costing taxpayers millions quite often, always golfing, he should be a pro on the circuit by now. Anyway, US dollar still seems OK none the less for now at least and thats because everyone else is also in a ton of debt, Japan, China, Europe, Spain, Greece and so forth. As far as Russia goes last time I checked its 50 rubles to a buck, I remember before it was only 30 or so; Russia needs to learn how to manufacture something for export. All those years of Communism however ruined that country in a most deep and profound way and it will still take Russia some many more years to come before they learn entrepreneurship.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      This nonsense simply doesn’t stop. Petrol states in the Mideast have held the United States captive since the 1970s. Their economies and per capita standards of living far surpass the US generally. Russia is an energy producing state, one of the primary petrol, gas, coal, nuclear, hydroelectric producers in the world. Russian rockets launch Western satellites. The latest generation of Russian military hardware is superior to its Western counterparts. Russian telecom provides affordable cellular service and communications to 1/6 of the world: smartphones are cheaper in Russia. Russian science is making strides in robotics, immunology, electrical engineering. The Russian auto industry is emerging with world cars where one should stop living in a timewarp of 1963 and actually see what the new Volga looks like before talking. Then there are numerous manufacturers in Russia like Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagen, Mitsubishi. The Russian housing industry is taking off. Russian agriculture is solid. There isn’t any industry that Russia lacks from textiles to appliances to plumbing.

                      Then there is BRICS. Russia is a creditor nation. America is a bankrupt debtor nation

                      Ignorant Russophobes should learn what they are talking about before writing hate filled stupidity. Take a look at the skyscrapers in Moscow built in the last 20 years: Russia is ascending and America is in twilight.

                      American industry over the last thirty years has gone abroad due to the inherent greed of capitalism. American workers and their families have been beat down and impoverished by the inherent corruption, inhumanity and dysfunction of American capitalism. The middle class is a shrinking minority and the mythological American Dream is over. Steel industry gone. Textile industry gone. Electronics gone. Appliances nearly gone. Toys made in Hong Kong and China. Detroit was decimated by Big Oil and Bush II where it is today on life support and sending jobs to Mexico while planning to badge vehicles produced in China and Korea, putting more American workers in bread lines. Silicon Valley is outsourcing to India and China. The only thing the US is manufacturing is unemployment and a lower standard of living. The USA has a record number of people unemployed and out of the workforce. The American standard of living has reverted to an inflation adjusted level comparable to the late 1950s. The news just this last week was most Americans won’t be financially able to own and buy cars within the next 25 years. Record numbers of people on foodstamps. Walmart, trucking and McDonald’s the main industries. So manufacturing in America? I am sorry but the requiem mass has been said long ago. While the service sector is now being outsourced.

                      America is dying and to speak of its manufacturing base being anything significant is not to notice the “Made in China” stickers on the majority goods which are sold in this country. American manufacturing is dead, killed by the parasitic greed of American capitalism. It is long finished and buried in a landfill.

                      Red, white, and blue uber alles is the fascist bathos of American exceptionalism. It makes claims it can’t substantiate while devouring its young, exploiting and impoverishing working people while being the chief parasite and economic slaver of the world, furthering its greed with cluster bombs and repression terming it “democracy” and the “American way.”

                      So manufacturing and all that… American manufacturing today happens in Socialist, Soviet China. While the Russian manufacturing sector is reemerging. In 25 years, the only manufacturing left in America will be in sanitation, construction of prisons, housing projects and internment camps for political prisoners. While within 25 years the world will witness more goods stamped “Made in Russia.” America can’t even manufacture the necessary rockets with which to launch its police state surveillance satellites: it buys them from Russia.

                    • I must say you seem to always speak in a mean spirited vitriolic manner however you are a soviet and if there is one characteristic they all seem to instinctively possess it is their crass style and repetitive banter with which they always think they can drown you out.

                      If Russia is doing all so great I would be most happy however I have been there on a couple occasions in the not so distant past and for myself saw what I saw and was seeing they have some serious problems with poverty, elderly sadly in particular seemed to me. One Dollar was getting me somewhere around in the mid 30 Rubles, today you get somewhere upwards of 50? What does that tell you and your rosy picture of things? I do not see any rush on the part of anyone in the FOREX market buying Rubles.

                      I believe in Russia, but not the “Communist Soviet Russia” land of socialism and long lines for consumer staples that some number of people there still have some kind of demented nostalgia ingrained. Russia needs to weed its “Stalinism” out, completely, entirely or it will always be in the dumps. Cart off the rotten remains of Lenin that grotesque mummy they still have there (? .. or did they finally rid him, maybe they did or still have the plan to do that).

                      The USSR is not Russia and is not Russian History. The Bolshevik period was only a demonic invasion and nothing else but only that. While the US had some rough times itself during the Depression nothing at all resembling communist rule. Yes .. capitalist class system .. and MIDDLE CLASS PROSPERITY and not the starvation of the masses of the USSR and decades of long bread lines and all the lies and propaganda of Izvestia and Pravda and all the gulags and concentration camps throughout its whole entire history of seven decades or so.

                      I’m sure you may find in yourself still one, hopefully only one, single more response. Lets see if you can manage your ESL without all your same repetitive nomenclature of terms like:
                      “parasitic capitalism” “hating people” “schismatic rant” “lumpen” “heretical crackpot stupidity” “ales shmalles uber shmoober” “lunatic screed screech” “sectarian stench” “russophobe” (sovietphobe, social-demophobe, not russophobe) “gutter of American fascist GIGO” and finally your “nuff said.”

                    • Michael Warren says

                      People who toss punches only to start balling when they end up lying flat on their backs amaze me in their cowardice. There isn’t anything left here but the witless delusions of red, white, and blue uber alles living in the garages of their Eastern Rite foil hat schismatic “last authentic Orthodox living room-cathedrals” on earth. You have been addressed, answered and dismissed. So phone on home to the Russophobic, Matthewite mother ship and go and pander your hysterically insipid heretical GIGO elsewhere. Goodbye.

                      Sieg heil! May you celebrate your bliss in all its fanciful and fascist hubris.

  6. Just to point out that the president of the U. of Missouri is Tim Wolfe, not Tim Wise. Might want to correct that. There is a back story to what happened to the President and Chancellor, and that story will probably never be told. But you’re correct about everything else. Thorstein Veblen who spent a few years there described Columbia and the U. of Missouri as “a woodpecker hole in a rotten stump. . .” Guess he didn’t like the place. The University which had some promise has been set back at least twenty years by the cry bullies and by petty deans protecting their tiny turfs.

  7. It is unlikely that so-called ‘liberalism’ is ‘ending’—whoever started that stupid meme?—as it is currently in the final phase of establishing itself as the official state religion in the United States, in case you hadn’t noticed. Unless we are prepared to push back immediately, and fight it over a period of decades, we are kidding ourselves.

    ‘Liberalism’ is failing massively all over the globe, for all with eyes to see, but it won’t ever end until lovers of western civilization manage to ridicule it and discredit it back into oblivion. Otherwise, it’ll come back in another guise, just as blind and evil and totalitarian as before, only in even more delusional and gauzey forms.

    We can start now by refusing to call it liberalism’; Marxism, collectivism, statism, fascism—yes. And then we can go back to our churches and start to excise it from the body of the church, where it has attached itself in the guise of love, kindness, and compassion, and expresses itself as moral relativism, ‘social justice’, and apostasy. Marx would be so proud.

    • Michael Warren says

      Liberalism, though employing fascist and corporatist henchmen, is not the same thing as social democracy. One is a leftist politics for monied interests, the other the true left and voice/arm of working people. Liberalism’s primary aim is brokering power of the mob it distracts with nihilistic excesses to monied interests to essentially get its cut and maintain its own aristocracy. Liberals enserf the poor and working peoples on technocratic, consumerist, sensualist neo pagan, nihilistic plantations to keep them in a holding pattern for limousine liberal masters who will use them to shake down capital or tear down social institutions.

      Social democracy is the citizen sovereignty of working people who control and share the value of the wealth their labor creates without nihilistic distractions and without shaking down capital but dictating to it. There are no plantations and there is no socially engineered nihilism but government of/by/for the people.

  8. Michael Bauman says

    All modern political movements have their roots in the same dung pile: the myth that we not only can but should make the world a better place. That is a lie. It is the same lie we were told in the Garden in a slightly different form. The Constitution was formed on the same premise. Our modern USA and her politics, romanticism aside, is the natural out come of what the revolutionaries set in motion. It was , IMO, a continuation of the iconoclastic English revolution and the rule of Oliver Cromwell in his quest to purify.

    At best the lie distracts us from our true purpose, union with Jesus Christ. At worse it inflames our passions and leads us into direct and willful participation in evil.

    We are not in charge of history. Shoot anyone who seriously attempts to fast and pray very quickly finds out we are not even in charge of our own thoughts and bodies because we are so estranged from ourselves and God is far away. Noise and desires typically overwhelm.

    Modern ideological politics is a nilhist project to keep us riled up and at each others throats so those who want the power can have it, promising to make the world a better place , save the children, enlighten the ignorant and ensure justice for all. Shoot even Marvel propagates the nihilist vision of the ubermench setting everything right no matter how many people die and how much destruction takes place.

    Only God IS. The rest is derivative, finite and subject to death especially our demonically inspired megalomania.

    The real solution is terrifyingly simple: be human as Christ made us to be. Fast, pray, give alms*, forgive everyone, give glory to God in worship and the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving for all, repent. So much easier to buy the lie that we must make a difference through coercively making folks do the right thing for the greater good, eh?

    No matter where one is on the political spectrum it all partakes of the same lie. All the ideologies are idols.

    *Giving alms is what the judgment parable in Matthew illustrates. It is fundamental to the Beatitudes.

    • Michael Warren says

      The Church exists to aid society as an embassy of the Kingdom of GOD. Our primary endeavour as Christians is to christianize the states we live in and aid to free them, their cultures, their societies, from sin and coercion and economic inequality. The writings of St. John Chrysostom on Wealth and Poverty make that clear.

      • Michael Bauman says

        The Church exists as the entry way to the Kingdom of God. Civil society is largely irrelevant except that the more faithful Christians there are the more just the civil society will be.

        • Michael Warren says

          Even monastics are tasked with praying for the world and the state so that they overcome sin and find their way to CHRIST. Neither Blessed Augustine nor anyone espousing Symphonia nor Third Rome nor even Free Church separation of Church and state holds to your views. We don’t exist in a vacuum nor are we called to turn our backs on creation but to exalt it and all humanity unto the God man. This is part of the obligation of Orthodox Christian stewardship.

          The lives, acts, writings and counsels of such Saints as St. Sergius of Radonezh and St. John Chrysostom and St. Kosmas the Aitolean and Holy Patriarch Tikhon of Moscow simply indicate the proper Orthodox course for interaction between Church and state and the Orthodox Christian obligation to promote social justice.

  9. Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

    Since citizens’ arms are no defense at all against any modern government Congress should ABOLISH that 2nd Amendment. We can get all the flesh of cattle, pigs, birds and fishes at our supermarket, so firearms are only useful for civilian terrorists, murderers, and other sickos.

    • Carl Kraeff says

      I want to buy a firearm to defend my family. You would be surprised how effective some of these are.

    • Tim R. Mortiss says

      I would only point out that, although it merely concerns that purported “idol”, the US Constitution, that Congress has no power to “abolish” any of its provisions. This would take the action of the legislatures of 3/4 of the states.

      What about the fishing poles? Are they for “sickos”, too?

    • Or men who have a family to protect against the unlikely, but possible home invasion. Or perhaps those of us who enjoy target shooting.

      I don’t think I fit into any of your caricatures as either a terrorist, murderer or sicko.

    • People who obey the law are called—unsurprisingly—‘law-abiding’ citizens. Those who ignore the law are called—wait for it—criminals. Criminals, by definition, will always manage to obtain guns, no matter what draconian laws are in place, as guns play so large a part in their professional undertakings. Criminals don’t care if you ban small guns or big guns, old guns or new ones, black guns or green guns or pink guns or blue ones. Criminals are not proud: they break all laws, regardless of how poorly conceived or politically popular.

      The only thing that revoking the 2nd Amendment would do would be to take the right to self-defense away from law-abiding citizens.

      Which would be just imbecilic, wouldn’t it?

    • Michael Warren says

      Without a Second Amendment, there is no citizen sovereignty. The state is unhindered in its encroachments and excesses. Anyone who clamors for enserfmemt to the state and its tyrannies has no interest in liberty or checking the intrusiveness of government or the well being of the citizenry. Such a person is a statist who believes in the good of the state and the monied interests who corrupt it.

      It always fascinates me how liberals use as their pretext the violent crimes of criminals and crazy people, who are the products of liberal social engineering and as such do not believe in good and evil, right and wrong. They then issue guilty verdicts on people who have not perpetrated these crimes as a means of confiscating their means of defending themselves from these very same liberal, nihilistic crazy and criminal mutants and from the coercive, authoritarian liberal state. They then use citizen disarmament to implement ever more coercive government power to only call for more power by further citizen disarmament when the liberal, mutant criminals and crazy people engage in more violence and crime because their liberal patrons removed deterents, an armed citizenry, and empowered criminals and crazy people to thereby be more successful in achieving their ends. The blood of the victims of gun violence rests solely on the hands of stupid, liberal gun policy. Criminals and crazy people don’t follow the gun laws or bans liberals implement leading to spiraling crime and massacres of civilians. Chicago, DC, Oakland, Philadelphia, NYC, Detroit, etc. crime stats bear that out. What stops an armed criminal or crazy person is a citizen who is armed. The decrease in crime over the last 25 years in light of Second Amendment restoration efforts like concealed carry bears that out. No, law abiding citizens are not guilty of the crimes of criminals and crazy people who do not follow laws. Nor is it just to punish anyone by deprivation of libery for crimes he/she does not commit. The fact that liberal gun policy is predicated on such injustice and contempt for citizen security and liberty makes it nothing more than a power grab for tyranny exploiting tragedies liberal nihlistic social engineering enabled at the outset.

      Police state coercion unchecked is a fundamental tenet of fascism and totalitarianism. Yes, this is precisely why working people are done with liberals who shamelessly broker them like their personal dead souls. UnAmerican.

    • Fitz, were you always so obtuse as a priest; or was it a prerequisite of your elevation to bishop?

  10. Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

    If Texas secedes, can we erect a wall to keep them from overrunning us and spoiling our way of life?

    • Michael Warren says

      Our way of life has been corrupted and spoiled since Woodstock by other undesirable elements… liberals.

    • Fitz If Texas ever does secede we will pay for our own wall to keep the useful idiots such as yourself out.

      • George Michalopulos says

        I’m actually torn here between wanting the Red States to secede or walling off California so that all the productive people who are leaving that state in droves are forced to remain there and make it better. (If that’s even possible.)

        Think of the benefits: if America is to remain united, then we need a place to put all the idiot liberals and since California will always be Deep Blue electorally, let them all live there, kinda like what Israel does with Gaza.

        Seriously though: Utah, Colorado, Nevada, Texas will gladly take all the productive emigres from California, all we ask is that once you take up residence in our states you try to remember why exactly it was that you left California. What exactly made the Golden State the economic basket case it is now. And DON’T bring those ideas with you, making these reliably Red states Blue (or worse, Purple).

        • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

          Joke thief!
          George wants to take those Mexicans?

          • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

            California bothers George, it seems. As a born and loyal Detroiter, though, I see the necessity of a closed and impregnable walling off of Texas, if it secedes, as what Bibi Netanyahu would call an “existential necessity” for America. And I see that George is following some old and dubious Fox statistics relative to TODAY’s California.

            • Michael Warren says

              As a Detroiter myself, I would invite you back to see what toll white paternalism and the monicker “most liberal city in America” took on a once and future great city. Let me recommend a 7 mile safari from Grosse Pointe to Livonia, even to Farmington, or maybe a drive down Jefferson from downtown to the old Del Ray neighborhood. Even a trip down Woodward tells you everything you want to know if you don’t just see Palmer Woods. Be sure to stop by and visit with Fr. Roman at St. Innocent’s. Drive by the old All Saints Cathedral which is now a bachelor pad in purple. Do see what became of HOLY GHOST on Mound or the old Synodal Cathedral on Hubble. Please say a prayer for us all at the grotto at SS Peter & Paul.

              Don’t forget to lock your doors. But it is still safe to get a fish sandwich at Telway on Michigan Avenue, and the coffee is still very good.

              All the best, Vladyko.

              • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                The ROCOR Assumption Cathedral is alive and VERY well on Livernois between Cambourne and Lewsiston near Nine Mile! Its fine Rector sometimes posts here. I believe Detroit is on the comeback, but not as an industrial or other kind of giant. You shouldn’t look at it through brownish glasses!
                On your trip “down” Woodward, did you miss the Library and the Art Institute and Wayne State Univ?
                DelRay was downscale even ib Detroit’s “palmy” days, although I used to like the midnight jam sessions in one of its decrepit hotels. All Saints was well-nigh abandoned long before the city’s decline. Holy Ghost never amounted to much, although one once could hear really authentic Slavic hillbilly (Carpathian Mountain) chants there when Fr Stephen Rusiniak was still around. My sister and her husband, a retired Fords executive, just moved out of theitr Bloomfield Hills house into Hrnry Ford (Retirement) Village in Dearborn. My sister said that Dearborn’s OK but it lacks much “cultural” because of the notorious absence of Jews there!
                I’m surprised there’s ANYTHING left at SS Peter & Paul’s after Archbishop Job’s “oversight.”
                There were many causes of Detroit’s dramatic decline==white paternalism is a slogan or excuse.

                • Michael Warren says

                  On a trip down Woodward just past Wayne State, the DIA and the library, which is now seldom open and vandalized, you will see the ravages of blight and ruin not seen since before the Marshal Plan. These institutions are located within a landscape which looks like the aftermath of a zombie apocalypse.

                  And that is what it really is in a sense. Liberal white paternalism funded the block busters, abandoned the city in white flight and threw money at community organized corruption with liberal rhetoric of “renaissance,” “urban renewal,” and “reparations.” Liberalism was the infection which propagated the zombie outbreak. It empowered the barbarians to burn Rome to the ground. No, no amnesty will be offered to this liberal crime against civilization, nor will its enormity be lost in “nuanced,” liberal rationalizations, obfuscation and attempts at finding scape goats. Detroit is the epitome of American liberal policy and technocratic, plantation politics. Detroit by its own sloganeering became “the most liberal city in America” thanks to the stupidity of white liberal paternalist guilt and mob manipulation, empowered by cuckold Republican auto industry executive asinine ideas of “containment.” Thus Detroit fell into liberal debauchery, then barbarism, bedlam and is now in post apocalyptic stupor. We will not evade the truth, Your Grace.

                  All Saints Cathedral was the site of the historic 1924 Detroit Sobor. It was the nucleus of Russian Orthodoxy in Detroit. When I visited it in the early 1990s, there were more parishioners in attendance, Your Grace, than at your former San Francisco Cathedral. There were enough parishioners and resources in place to build what is now the St. Savas Monastery in Harper Woods. What emptied and closed this parish is well known and is the same cancer still wrecking havoc in the OCA.

                  That same cancer divided and scandalously closed HOLY GHOST on Mound, where the majority of parishoners tragically fled into schism because ideology and arrogance would not respect their sensibilities. (A similar thing happened across the bridge in Windsor, but thankfully that parish has reopened). It is a travesty that an historic constituency of the Russian Orthodox church with its distinct and beautiful traditions can be derided as “Slavic hillbillies” by a minority in the OCA and encouraged into schism. Such intemperance is precisely the reason for the ills in our local church. It is sectarian. It has hampered our mission. It has caused schism and apostasy. The creation of bodies like ACROD is because of attitudes like this. Who would want to belong to an organism which derides ones heritage and labels it with the epithet of “Slavic hillbilly”? Fr. Rusiniak was among the most capable and kind Russian Orthodox pastors in Detroit. While the St. Mark’s crowd does definitely indulge your deleterious and unfortunate views on the situation, Your Grace.

                  SS Peter & Paul permeates holiness in its edifice. When I pray there, I am overwhelmed with the experience of praying in an Orthodox shrine.

                  DelRay was once a very folksy and traditional working class ethnic enclave. Losing that sense of ethnic extended family robbed us all of something special.

                  The Synodal Cathedral is no longer in Detroit. It is now in Ferndale. It is a former school building I believe. Its original edifice on Joseph Campeau if I am not mistaken burned to the ground in the process of Detroit’s liberal experiment and is now prairie. When I drove by the church on Hubble, the gold dome and three bar cross was still there. But across the street the Lutheran church was still functioning, sold, haphazardly partially demolished. On Grand River near the Hubble cathedral a former hardware store looked as if a bomb had been detonated inside of it. Bricks were strewn across Grand River. Water poured from the broken plumbing into the street. The ruin smoldered and sparked. All around the Hubble church, former nice middle class brick homes were and are today burned out blighted huvvles.

                  One need not travel to the Third World to see it. One need only travel to Detroit to see what the liberals did to it.

                  Unfortunately, liberalism exacted a heavy toll on Orthodoxy in Detroit as well.

                  If you are ever in the city again, Your Grace, I would be more than happy to show you around without malice and treat you to a fish sandwich, fries and great coffee at Telway on Michigan Avenue.

                  • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                    I visited SS Peter & Paul;s in its palmier days, in the 1960s. The unfortunate Fr Nicholas Fedetz (he of the Seagram’s billboard ads) was the rector after the Masonic Fr Lilikovich. A bright spot was the choir, directed by the staunchly East Ukrainian Kondratenko-Panchuk.
                    I consider “hillbilly” to be an EXACT translation of “Uhorsky.”
                    Del Ray, back in the day was a real Hungarian (or, as Detroiters used to say, “Hunkie.”) enclave. The hotel where those great after hours jamming sessions too place was the West End Hotel. I’m AMAZED to hear All Saints was well-attended in the 1990’s.Was its rector then in the OCA?
                    iT WAS INDICATED THAT THE ROCOR parush by Hubbel and Grand River had to relocate to a near suburb. Actually, the Hubbel location was where that parish relocated from the EAST side of Detroit after their famously beautiful temple burnt down to the ground, due, I believe to a stove left turned on in the rectory by the Rector. I believe one may still find a beautiful pamphlet depicting the beauties of that edifice un the Detroit Library. It was still there in 1949, when I was doing research for my high school term paper (comparing the teachings of Eastern Orthodoxy with those of the Anglican communion)
                    Our extended family in Detroit was LARGE. I understand that today’s Detroiters are feircely attached to this or that theory trying to find scapegoats to BLAME for the city’s decline. There are many Detroiters (and others) who are not so dogmatic about their read on the situation. I wouldn’t try to squeeze it inti Michael’s little mold of blame. Detroit Orthodoxy is not as fragile and weak as he would make it out to be!
                    Oh, I forgot to mention the thriving St Mary Protectress Ukrainian parish which moved from its old I Michigan ve location out to the suburbs, I still remember their old Bishop Volodymir! The Kytastys wer parishioners there.
                    One doesn’t have to be a genius to see that it was not white paternalism that ruined Detroit, it was WHITE FLIGHT. Period.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      White flight occured as a result of White liberal paternalism.

                      Your Grace, your view seems to issue forth from an alternate universe.

                      “Uhro” is the Ruthenian rootword meaning “Hungarian,” ie Uhrin (Ugrin), Hungarian, Uhorschina, Hungary.

                      Svyatoi Moisei Ugrin = St. Moses the Hungarian.

                      SS Peter & Paul was derided by the local “Ukrainian” parishes as “russophile” because it predated their “national awakening.” And although it’s founding membership was predominantly Red & Black Ruthenian, Little Russian, White Russian and Carpatho Ruthenian, its membership tended to view “Ukrainianism” as a political party with few people playing up the ethnonym. With good reason as the local Ukrainian Uniate St. John’s began life as tserkva Rus’ka Hreko Katolitska svyatoho Ivana predtechoho, ie Russian Greek Catholic Church of St. John the Baptist. That is what the foundation stone under the brass plaque read. The long defunct Ukrainian national temple in the vicinity was known originally as the Rus’ky Narodny Dom, ie Russian folk home. So Your Grace, you seem to have seen “Ukrainians” in places the “Ukrainians” derided as “Russophile” and “Ukrainophobic.” SS Peter & Paul’s parishoners unapologetically saw themselves as Russians and Russian Orthodox and even had church picnics at such places as the Russian farm outside of Holly. Even those who hailed from places anachronistically indicated as the Eastern Ukraine were more apt to call themselves Little Russians when pressed.

                      The Ukrainian church now on Mada off of Evergreen was indeed located near SS Peter & Paul on 29th. Street across Livernois. It was founded by self consecrated, ie “samosvyat,” Renovationists. The building had originally been a Jewish synagogue. It moved from that location in White Flight because White liberal paternalism turned blind eyes to anti-White race crimes and crime sprees after the riots.

                      BTW, the Kytastys you mention of the locally known “bondurist choir,” amid all the banderist propaganda and pictures of Little Russian (by his own pen) writer Schevczenko, spoke Russian in their home to the consternation of many of the “Ukrainian patriots” and read Novoye Russkoe Slovo. Ukrainianism from its outset was fakery and a political hobby.

                • V.Rev.Andrei Alexiev says

                  If Your Grace is referring to me, I haven’t been rector of the cathedral on Livernois since April 2006. From Pentecost 2008 up to July 12 of this year I had been servicing Holy Ascension Serbian Orthodox parish in Ecorse. In July,Bishop Longin named me temporary administrator of St.Stevan Decanski Serbian Orthodox church in Warren. This assignment may last a few more months or a few more years,depending upon when a “real” Serb may be found.
                  Should Your Grace come for a visit, I would be happy to escort you to the Cathedral for vespers.If Your Grace is willing, the people in Ecorse could use a Sunday liturgy. I have a deacon there now doing Reader services who could help you,he lives in Dearborn Heights.

                  • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                    Warren! Home of Madonna! I used to drive through on the way to Metropolitan Beach. Well, SOMEBODY is e-mailing me the bulletin from the Assumption parish, I thought it was you. Michael Warren was ridiculing Detroit and using that parish as support for his ridicule. My travelling days are over. But I might have to go there if my older sister precedes me in death.
                    The parish you are administering used to be on East Grand Blvd., no? Not far from the Ascension Russian Church of old.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Don’t believe your lying eyes when you see the post apocalypse of Detroit and forget what you witnessed, believe the DNC…

        • Productive people – you mean like Silicon Valley?

  11. 1944: 18-20 year olds stormed enemy beaches, parachuted behind enemy lines, charged into battles and almost certain death.
    2015: 18-20 year olds need ‘safe zones’ on college campuses to protect their fragile emotions from ‘ offensive’ WORDS.

    • Michael Warren says

      Books burn at 451 degrees farenheit. Liberal distraction has censorship of free speech as a central tenet.

      • ReaderEmanuel says

        Funny how the liberals who fought for free speech and freedom from censorship in the 60s and 70s are now restricting speech and practicing censorship more than the “establishment” they were so against back then.

      • Daniel E Fall says

        The ban on federal funding of gun research was liberal censorship? It was facist censorship. Mr Warren you need to revisit power.

        Or like chicken little says..

        Its the hippies..

        • Michael Warren says

          What ban on studies are you talking about? Just recently flawed and agendized studies were contrived following the murky events of Sandy Hook. They claimed gun violence had gone up by counting the times police and citizens had stopped crimes and massacres into their statistics… Should the government be funding disinformation now to advance the liberal agenda? That’s a very brown position.

          Only a hippie would produce such false studies.

          Or are you talking about the gun control study liberals commissioned during the Clinton administration, made famous by Michael Moore in his anti gun propaganda work, where the author admitted he conjectured material regarding colonial times and the nineteenth century for lack of any credible primary sources in order to further his anti gun views, ie he lied, called it a study, then proceeded to pass it off as objective evidence of liberal gun policy being in place since the founding of the country?

          You want a government check to finance an Orwellian ministry of truth? Does that eventually come with a sieg heil?

          And the only people pushing fascism these days seem to be your wonderful liberals. From police state NSA surveillance to drone strikes to toppling democratic governments to install blatantly fascist and/or Islamist puppet regimes to engage in ethnic cleansing around the globe. The current regime in Washington has voted against at least three resolutions in the U.N. aimed at condemning the rehabilitation of Adolph Hitler, NAZIism, NAZI collaboration and fascism in all of its strains.

          This coming from a fellow occupying the White House who lies about his conception during the infamous hippie summer of love.

          His liberal crusade for the world includes training, funding, arming and supplying Islamists, even buying them brand new Toyotas and giving them a US taxpayer funded expense account. He installed a rogue regime whose spokespeople have belched such gems as “The defeat of Adolph Hitler was a tragedy for mankind.”

          So you will forgive me if when you mention liberals and hippies and fascists and studies in the same thought that I don’t appreciate the artless bathos. Destroying a hospital with a drone strike to terrorize dissent and opposition to American colonialism is reminiscent of the London blitz.

          To recap why liberal gun policy is the tool of tyrants and is knuckle dragging stupid:
          1). Criminals and crazy people don’t follow laws and to expect them to do so is irrational, even imbecilic.
          2). When people are disarmed, they acquire greater chances of becoming the victims of criminals and crazy people, who don’t follow laws and adhere to liberal gun bans, because deterents are removed giving criminals and crazy people greater chances of perpetrating mayhem.
          3). Just as my disagreement with American conservative and liberal does not justify policy positions advancing nullification of their rights to assembly, free speech, vote, run for office, etc., so too does the fundamental right to bear arms not have limitations imposed by liberal unease and/or power hunger.
          4). In a free state, citizen sovereignty deputizes a government and as governments are prone to amass power and curtail liberty, only an armed citizenry can guarantee its continued liberty and sovereignty. You can check with Thomas Jefferson and read all about it.
          5). The very fact that a state has used the acts of criminals and crazy people as a pretext for policies which have punished law abiding citizens, put in place police state architecture, and in effect pronounced innocent people guilty for the crimes and massacres to curtail their liberty and infringe their human rights while increasing the coercive machinery of state and doing nothing but increasing crime and violence and mayhem screams how disingenuous, tyrannical, unjust and intentionally ineffectual liberal gun policy is. You cannot punish innocent, law abiding citizens for the crimes of criminals and crazy people and take away their liberty. Seek your murderers of Kirov elsewhere. Fascism will not pass.

          All this talk of chicken, both on the old and new calendar the Nativity fast is happening. If you need to eat some chicken, work it out with your Priest.

          • Daniel E Fall says

            Actually Warren, facism is its own politic.

            What is facism? It is when corporations run or heavily influence government.

            So let us examine a few things about America.

            The military industrial complex has a player called Halliburton if I recall. Hippies run that.

            The fuel refinery and oil industry has tons of political power. Koch Brothers ring a bell?

            On the other side, the health insurance companies got the left to mandate all people get covered. More facism really. Where the insurers had enough power to drive government solutions.

            And then let’s switch to guns for just a second. A reasonable gun policy would require no sales between private parties to prevent terrorists from getting guns at garage sales. A reasonable gun policy would require the schizophrenic to probably not own a gun. Of course, this is conjecture on my part because the right wing was so afraid of any responsible policy they banned funding the CDC. And it is important to note Jay Dickey himself believes it is an error for government to not research gun violence.

            As a proud gun owner, I can tell you I have no problem with background checks. I understand the simplicity of black market gun purchases when there are so many guns. If I sell a gun to someone and it is used in the commission of a crime, I should be held responsible if there is no background check done. I also believe the government should be able to ascertain and keep track of someone who is building an arsenal, collector or otherwise. Is it going to stop gun violence? I don’t know, the right blocked research.

            Meanwhile, keep an eye out for those hippies, they are gonna get you.

            • Michael Warren says

              We have a system of background checks in place and the state of California mandates them on all sales. That didn’t stop the terrorists in San Bernardino who reportedly used weapons banned by the state of California.

              Criminals and crazy people don’t follow stupid liberal gun laws and terrorists definitely won’t. Your solution punishes law abiding people for crimes they did not commit and San Bernardino proves would do nothing to stop terrorism.

              Your background check idea amounts to forcing law abiding gun owners to be registered and monitored by the government to exercise their rights. You advocate infringing liberty and punishing people for crimes they did not commit. How’s that working out for you in California, Chicago, DC, etc? A gun registry is the only way that power grab by the state would get off the ground. And, of course, the government would never use this data to infringe civil liberties! In effect, you are saying that gun owners need to be registered with the state as “juden” and monitored so that criminals and crazy people would not perpetrate crimes and massacres. But such a system exists in California and look what happened… You disarmed people and got them killed with your liberal stupidity.

              Liberal gun laws, bans, registries are things criminals and crazy people will not follow and will exploit to perpetrate crimes and massacres. California along with 50 years of gun control proves it. You are advocating removing the main effective deterrent to crimes and massacres.

              And of course speed limits stop people from speeding and are never abused by the government to generate revenue and harass certain segments of the population. Never!!!

              Straw purchases are illegal today. Doesn’t stop criminals and crazy people, does it? AR15s are illegal in CA today. The ban didn’t stop the Islamist terrorists in San Bernardino, did it?! But it did get innocent people killed.

              Fast and Furious. The government armed Mexican Narco terrorists with semiautomatic weapons which are now available on the black market and show up in the hands of criminals. Guess liberal gun laws and gun bans and background checks won’t affect them, will they?! The US government bought up massive stocks of ammunition, magazines and assault weapons and supplies them now to Islamist “freedom fighters” and various fascist and other colonial mercenaries fighting for red, white and blue uber alles.

              But assaulting the liberty of law abiding Americans is what will stop these weapons from getting into the wrong hands?! Right.

              Only an armed citizen can deter a criminal, maniac, terrorist or corporatist police state

              San Bernardino proved harsh language, liberal suasion and civilian disarmament only enabled the massacre to happen

              California showed said criminals and crazy people have no intention of following stupid liberal gun laws which disarmed law abiding people and got them killed! Now you want to give the Hillary Clintons of the world a “juden registry” to punish Americans for the crimes of criminals and crazy people. Wearing “jude” on our clothing is next. And of course, the liberal fascists would never use it to infringe liberty and confiscate guns or tax, harass, round up law abiding people! No, never.

              But here they have engineered a Reichstag Fire to hunt for murderers of Kirov…

              Let’s put your background check idea in context. If people had to pass a background check to peaceably assemble, engage in free speech, to worship, would that be reasonable? Well, the Supreme Court has struck down Jim Crowe and voter ID laws…

              So, no, punishing innocent people for the crimes of criminals and crazy people and terrorists is not reasonable and not just, won’t prevent anything as San Bernardino showed, and only ceded more power to infringe liberty to a government already out of control.

              I guess you aren’t aware that the Obama regime is in bed with Haliburton and Blackwater and uses them to train, supply, supplement Islamist and fascist colonial regimes red, white and blue uber alles has installed and that people with connections to them work for the regime. The banksters and big oil along with other monied interests have bankrolled the regime and run the media. They also reep profits and get payola from newly founded Islamist and fascist colonial regimes. Toyota got a nice payout from electric Uncle Sam when they supplied brand new vehicles for the “Syrian freedom fighters” AKA ISIS.

              Then there is George Soros, Michael Bloomberg who funds the disinformation you just shared, Hollywood, GE, Silicon Valley, et al which all have a hand in pulling the strings on their puppets in Washington and shaping policy which no one voted for…

              You are proving all my points about the inanity and inherent undesirability and evil of liberalism. Was it your intention to enter a guilty plea?

              I am not a faux news zombie. I believe in citizen sovereignty and as a social democrat I believe in revolutionary struggle to create a workers’ state. So your right baiting failed. I suggest you get a good read in of Thomas Jefferson one day and stop the inane NY Times talking points.

              • Daniel E Fall says

                Michael, Michael, Michael. Let me use my patronizing voice.

                Ever hear of the Manhattan Project?

                The day of the citizen militia ended long before it with aircraft carriers bigger than football fields, etc. Or maybe it was submarines, or was it the billion dollar fighter jets. I’m getting so confused.

                The federal government needs everyone at home to own automatic weapons to protect the nation, right?

                As a gun owner Michael, let me say you are missing the vital bits of a registry system. It might prevent the Mrs. Lanzas of the world from giving her child with Asbergers AR15s, and it would have probably prevented the Aurora theatre killings. It is no magic bullet, pun intended, but it might help alleviate some bits of horror. Of course, if a black market sale had happened, those sellers bear a burden of responsibility.

                As to the Muslim radicals in California, there was a private party sale. It probably would not have mattered if the sale had been registered. However, the reports suggest the number of round of ammo amassed were in the thousands. If the FBI knew a Muslim guy was buying AR15s, maybe they’d at least check out his other activities.

                If the Republicans don’t contribute to stopping Muslim radicals from getting AR15s without as much as a fart; then Republicans will get the credit.

                You can fool yourself with references to Hitler all day long.

                • Michael Warren says

                  You are patronizing yourself in a bubble where you worship your own echos and not me. Again I refer you back to the Anti Federalist papers and the role of citizen sovereignty and how it is secured by the right to bear arms.

                  In our days of atomic weapons, jets and spaceflight, small arm wielding partisan militias have defeated superpowers like Adolph Hitler’s Germany. Then there were the Viet Minh and the Viet Cong. Not to mention the nation of Switzerland. In Switzerland citizens are mandated to own assault rifles in their homes and maintain proficiency. A country well protected with one of the lowest crime rates in the world is the result. Since you liberals feign to believe that armed citizens are no match for your omnipotent liberal white paternalist plantation state, there is no threat for us to own arms, right?! But you all seem to be very vulnerable to criminals, terrorists and crazy people who seem to always evade and never comply with your murderous gun control schemes. Revolution is indeed an effective deterent to the fascist police state you espouse.

                  You as a statist don’t get that the FBI shouldn’t be registering law abiding civilians and watching them. Herbert Hoover. Nixon’s (and Emperor Clinton’s and Obama’s) enemies lists. Because the state will use registries for purges, repression, suppressing civil liberties! Just as it is authoritarian for people to be on a government registry and watched by the FBI to worship, assemble, engage in free speech and politically agitate, so too is it undemocratic for a government to register innocent gun owners for the Crimes of terrorists, criminals and crazy people who will evade these registries!

            • The Koch brothers? Aren’t those the guys that are listed 14th on the site under 13 other, larger, political donors, 10 of which donate virtually 100% of their lobbying millions solely to the Democrat party—those Koch brothers?

              Ha! It is to laugh.

              • Daniel E Fall says

                Well, one, you make my point pretty completely.

                I suggested facism was when corporations control big government.

                I gave examples of both sides.

                But if you look at David Koch’s libertarian platform on which he ran for President; he is clearly not a Democrat.

                Not sure where you are looking on open secrets, but the Koch borthers gave a combined 7 million dollars in 2014 to conservatives according to the site you cited.

                Point is about facism, Koch brothers give to conservative causes. Money they get is from big business.

              • Michael Warren says

                People who mention the Kochs while ignoring George Soros, Ted Turner, Michael Bloomberg, Bezos et al are only engaging in witless DNC talking points to exonerate their failed and stupid liberal agendas…

                • Peter A. Papoutsis says

                  I agree with you Michael, but I think that all the people you mentioned along with the Koch brothers have an agenda that is against the majority of freedom loving people.

                  Presently only Putin and the RF is checking and stopping the so-called Globalist juggernaut. I do pray that Putin succeeds in stopping them or at least slowing these people down so the rest of us can wake up and start checking/stopping them ourselves. However this is wishful thinking on my part. I am most thankful that God is in control and will save his people in the end.

                  Peter A. Papoutsis

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Well, I generally have no use for capitalists engaged in solidifying oligarchy. In a more just world, workers would have a say in how the wealth they create in terms of profits and investment is used in modernizing a business, paying greater worker benefits and competing in the market place. Workers’ representatives should at very least sit on the boards of companies the wealth generated by labor makes successful as voting members. I like the model used by Ben and Jerry’s ice cream.

            • Michael Bauman says

              Mr. Fall the mandate for health insurance has not been a boon to health insurers. Many are loosing money hand over fist because of the insupportable acuruariali assumptions the government imposed.

              The PPACA was design as a tool to eliminate private health insurers so the government could take it over. 10 years ago there were 10 health insurers in my state plus a state run guaranteed risk pool. Combined any one who wanted insurance could get it. The affordability factor was the only problem.

              The Kansas system had none of the egregious defects found largely in Democrat run states that were used to demogog the ACA such as carrier cancellation for claims. That has never been allowed in Kansas.

              As it stands now we are effectively down to one insurer and the base rates are higher for worse coverage than the old high risk rates with worse coverage.

              Every person and entity involved in Healthcare and the payment system is
              at fault but it gets demonstrably worse everytime the government mandates coverage.

              This year I have personally witnessed an upsurge in people opting to pay the penalty rather than buy major medical insurance. They may understand the risk they are running if some significant medical event occurs but the dollar difference is so great in the now they out to take the risk.

              The ACA law is a horrible piece of legislation for Healthcare and payment in this country. It has really had consequences economically, foe care and its cost and morally.

        • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

          Good one, Dan. The 2nd Amendment struck again here in California, driving the gun business’s profits through the hyper-ceiling! Some Republican “candidates” imagine that MORE guns are going to reduce the incidence of gun-related violence!. It’s so childishly stupid, one wants to have a requiem for Republican brains!

          • Your Grace-

            What is childishly stupid is thinking that more gun laws will prevent bad guys from getting them. California gun laws are some of the strictest in the nation. That didn’t prevent this guy from getting one. Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. Have you checked the gun violence statistics in Chicago recently? How about your home town of Detroit?

            Those areas of the country with the most relaxed gun laws also tend to be the safest. That is a fact. Are there are factors involved? I’m sure. But claiming that the 2nd Amendment is to blame for gun violence is logically lazy and intellectually dishonest. The entire gun-blaming industry is purely politically driven and intentionally obscures the real issues and causes of gun violence. To not see this is to be willfully blind or hopelessly naive.

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              Steven, is it childishly stupid to point out that US gun control laws, INCLUDING CALIFORNIA’S are the weakest IN THE CIVILIZED WORLD?
              The “gun blaming INDUSTRY? All these shootings and mass murders enhance the gun manufacturing INDUSTRY. Sales went through the roof when San Bernardino came about.
              The gun industry DEPENDS ON ISIS and Al Qaeda to keep them going!1!
              It’s obvious even to the childishly stupid who imagine that arming citizens will protect them from the government!!

              • Michael Warren says

                The Founding Fathers created a citizen armed America and premised its existence on citizen sovereignty enforced by an armed citizenry. It seems you have a problem with the very concept of America, your Grace.

                And California has the market basket/wish list of stupid, liberal gun control laws which got people killed in San Bernardino. It has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country which do nothing to stop criminals, terrorists and crazy people but have gotten innocent law abiding citizens victimized and murdered, your Grace.

                Gun sales go up when Americans feel vulnerable due to a government which cannot and will not protect their liberty and endangers it and their very lives with murderous and stupid liberal gun control laws.

                Law abiding citizens are not terrorists nor are gun owners responsible for the crimes of terrorists. It is beyond the pale immoral to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. If anything, the liberal regime in power training, arming funding, harboring and sheltering Islamist terrorists is. The liberal regime bought up large stocks of “assault weapons,” magazines and ammunition with which to arm Islamist and fascist “freedom fighters.” Guess that is another inconvenient truth. It creates the monsters who do this and can and will do it oblivious to stupid liberal gun policy. This regime in DC has done it intentionally.

                The only deterrent to force is a superior force not disarmament and attenuation, vulnerability. This isn’t rocket science.

                The 25 year trend has nationally shown that where the Second Amendment has been restored crime, murder and massacres has gone down. Places where gun control is strictest like California, DC and Chicago it has gone up, even skyrocketed. That’s all anyone needs to know about the stupidity of liberal gun control. It murders law abiding citizens by disarming then. No, contrived, liberal fictions can in the least dispute these facts or justify stupid, liberal gun policy.

              • Michael Warren says

                Britain implemented some of the most severe police state gun control in the world and has experienced skyrocketing crime, gun crime, and murder rates in such places as the city of London.

                Switzerland mandates citizen gun ownership and proficiency and has some of the lowest crime and murder rates in the civilized world.

                • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                  Michael Warren: but how does your “skyrocketing crime, gun crime and murder in London COMPARE with America’s “crime, gun crime and murder rates?,”

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Depends on where in America, Your Grace. In places where the Second Amendment has been restored, crime has decreased significantly where crime in London is much higher.

                    In places of strict and stupid liberal gun control as is what is in place in Britain, as in Chicago, DC and Oakland, the same criminal, murderous free for all is being exacted upon an unarmed citizenry. Disarming people makes them targets of opportunity for criminals, terrorists and crazy people. It isn’t rocket science to understand that criminals, terrorists and crazy people will not follow but will evade stupid, liberal gun control laws and take advantage of climates where deterents to their mayhem, ie an armed citizenry, have been removed. Gun control kills.

                    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                      “Depends on where in America, Your Grace. In places where the Second Amendment has been restored…”
                      No one has taken the 2nd Amendment away ANYWHERE–EVER.

                      “the same criminal, murderous free for all is being exacted upon an unarmed citizenry.”
                      How does anybody EXACT a free-for-all?

                      The crime rate in England is much lower than it is in America, although, as Mr Warren points out, London is an exception.

                      It’s like Holy Russia’s rate of H.I.V. infection being still on the rise, while every place else, such as in NATO countries (but NOT, exceptionally in Ireland) it’s been declining, declining. I DO NOT claim that Holy Rissia’s stricter gun laws are responsible for that country’s EVER-INCREASING H.I..V. rate of infection!

                      California needs STRICT gun laws, rather than its stupidly liberal gun laws. All these too liberal gun laws are foolishly based on the 2nd Amendment.

                      Oh yes! How is it that a purportedly grown up person like Mr Warren has not noticed that “criminals, terrorists and crazy people will not follow but will evade” ANY AND ALL LAWS–not just liberal laws like California’s classicallyliberal gun laws? He doesn’t realize he’s encouraging lawlessness!

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Prior to gun confiscation and prohibition, Britain and the city of London had a crime rate one third of what it is today.

                      AIDS came to the Western world via its gay crusade from a San Francisco bath house. It is the gift of a dying McCulture and McCivilization which His Grace believes to be exceptional. Nothing holy or Russian or gun correlated about it, but it is another prime example of the debauched and libertine, liberal decay of Western civilization. America in its gay crusade is literally murdering to spread AIDS as it tries to force the world to sing red, white and blue uber alles in the tone of brown. This non sequiter russophobia is nothing but the incapability of liberal polemics to deal with their senseless and failed record on gun policy. It is base and unworthy of an Orthodox hierarch.

                      His Grace wants gun prohibition and statist infringement of citizen sovereignty. He clamors for a liberal police state made possible by arms the liberal regime in power illegally supplied to terrorists and criminals which no gun registry will ever or could ever interdict. His premise is founded on false flag, engineered incidents ala the Reichstag Fire or Gulf or Tonkin or Saddam’s WMDs tyrannically concocted to infringe liberty. By its very nature, his position is unAmerican.

                      He does not respect the Second Amendment. He does not believe in citizen sovereignty. He advocates a liberal, police state monitoring and controling the people and making them subjects of the will of liberal social engineering. His proposed future was the subject of works by George Orwell and Aldus Huxley. His aim is fascism and police state. It will not pass.

                      The literal meaning of the word liberal is precisely the irony. Liberal policies are at best effete and debauched but in reality authoritarian and fascist because they are unpopular and resisted by absolute majorities of the population yet politically pursued by any means possible. Liberalism is intolerant, illiberal and unjust in its execution as a political movement and that is why it is terminally ill.

                      Criminals, terrorists, and crazy people do not follow laws. To argue the point is an exercise in obfuscation courting irrationality. These liberal empowered button men evade laws to pursue their ends by their very nature. Laws enacted in supposed response to their perfidy act to punish the innocent for their crimes and infringe the liberty of the citizenry validating crime, terror and insane mayhem… That is immoral, unjust tyranny.

                      No, stupid liberal gun control policy over the last fifty years disarmed innocent people and got them victimized, raped, killed. Because criminals, terrorists, crazy people at the outset did not follow these stupid laws, evaded them and took advantage of the climate of reduced deterence to pursue their ends. Stupid liberal gun policy made this possible. It victimizes, rapes, murders, empowers insane mayhem and terror. Liberals cynically use this terror to create police states which assault liberty.

              • Gregory Manning says

                Your Grace,

                You wrote: “All these shootings and mass murders enhance the gun manufacturing INDUSTRY.” Well, of course. Coincidentally, there have been a rash of break-ins in the mega apartment complex I live in. Those break-ins have “enhanced” the sales of security apparatus at the local hardware stores. No one is surprised. Each reaction seems to logically follow each of the instigating events. Moreover, all of us here believe that better locks and security will help protect us from further attempts to break in to our homes. Are we mistaken?

                An increasing amount of analysis and opinion is emerging (much of it based on hind sight) that IS and Al Qaeda had their genesis in the foreign policy actions of the United States and NATO, and, moreover, the current administration believes that the best way to deal with that threat as it enters our borders is some form of appeasement/dialogue/inclusiveness. Not surprisingly, many, many Americans don’t agree. Their actions seem to indicate that since the government won’t protect us we must protect ourselves. The gun industry isn’t so much counting on IS and Al Qaeda for it’s sales as it is on the failure of the government to protect it’s citizens. Thus, to the extent that our government can be shown to be, effectively, an enabler of the rise of terrorism on our shores, that same government is, for all intent and purposes, the enabler of the gun industry.

              • I’m trying to wrap my mind around the idea that a man ostensibly in the profession of healing mens’ broken souls appears to be of the opinion that this brokenness can be solved by the mere expedient—in this case—of abitrarily and unfairly banning weapons. He, more than any, should be aware that violence is a symptom of a much deeper disease—the disposition of mankind.

                But that problem is hard to solve and requires a lot of work; besides, it involves a lot of complex and subtle thinking. Better just to ban all weapons, let the sheep fend for themselves, and let God sort it out. Plus, it provides the smug illusion of genuine accomplishment.

                That you have attained the position of bishop boggles my mind.

                • To ONE: Regarding your comment regarding Fitz attaining the position of bishop it is easily explained by the Peter Principle set forth by Laurence J. Peter back in the 1960’s. To sum it up;
                  “managers rise to the level of their incompetence.”

                • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                  Mrs “one” should give up wrapping her mind around things, and tell us where this well-regulated militia is that all these gun lovers belong to.. That militia is the stated PURPOSE of the 2nd Amendment.
                  The reason she should give up trying to wrap her mind around things is that, as she confessed, her mind is “boggled.”

                  • Michael Warren says

                    The militia in colonial times was WE THE PEOPLE acting as freely armed volunteers in citizen sovereignty to secure the liberty of a free republic over which we were and ARE sovereigns.

                    Well regulated meant armed and trained and organized in paramilitary cadres ready to put down invasion and statist infringement of tyranny.

                    Please read Thomas Jefferson or James Madison, Your Grace.

                    • Please supply the name and location of the militia of which you are a member.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      It’s clear that the States preceded the Constitution. Furthermore, the Preamble to the Constitution begins thusly: “We the People…” The Constitution is a creature of “the People.”

                      That’s the first-known, de jure acknowledgement of where all powers given to the Federal govt come from –the people.

                      The second known de jure as to who the “militia” are come directly from SCOTUS: “all men between the ages of 19 and 65 are the militia.”

                      This of course comports with the standing reality of the States which existed on American soil from 1620 to 1789. All free-born, capable men were required to serve in the various militias.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Opolchenie Donetskoi Narodnoi Respubliki.

                      And my ancestors were members of Kubanskoe kazacheskoe voisko.

                      Slava narodu. Slava pobeditelyu.

                  • The Supreme Court has upheld the founders’ view, that the militia is the whole of the American people.

                    The States have the right to take this “disorganized militia” and turn it into an organized militia, but none have done so in centuries.

                    That does not mean the 2nd Amendment is null, it means that the right to bear arms is reserved to the People individually, as per the 10th Amendment.

                    • GM:

                      The second known de jure as to who the “militia” are come directly from SCOTUS: “all men between the ages of 19 and 65 are the militia.”

                      Thanks for the OUTDATED information. FYI: WOMEN are now allowed to join the National Guard and other services.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      Maybe your version allows terrorists, Asbergers children, and the Joker guns.

                      Mine does not.

              • There is a direct correlation in industrialized nations between the number of guns and the number of homicides. The US has far and away the most guns and the most homicides. So much for guns making us safer. (The statistics hold when you remove the US, as well, so it isn’t just a mathematical quirk. Fewer guns don’t mean the same number of homicides are committed by different means.) One might point anecdotally to the times when owning a gun saved lives (as one can for the high incidences of accidents and misuse), but what few objective facts can be known (despite Republicans and the NRA blocking funding for research into the causes of gun violence and how best to stop them) point to the common sense fact that guns increase the lethality of people’s sinful inclinations. I don’t feel safer in the face of terrorists or ‘bad guys’ with some paunchy, middle aged, wannabe Dirty Harry vigilante packing heat pretending he knows what the hell he’s doing in a firefight – even trained cops have a hard time responding appropriately and hitting their target under pressure.

                Making gun owners bear the full cost of gun ownership via mandatory (nonprofit, like property insurance in FL) gun liability insurance is one way to allow the market to bring some sense to this debate. To lower those costs, insurers would offer incentives for more training and proper storage, as well as disincentives for owning and attempting to control large numbers of weapons inappropriately. Gun owners prefer society bear that full cost for them, however, and whatever they can’t afford to pay back gets swallowed up in bankruptcy.

                The other way to control out of control gun proliferation (which increases homicides, see above), is to tie gun ownership directly to national defense (a “militia”), just like the Second Amendment does. That is, if you are a gun owner, you become part of the lowest level of military in the U.S., behind active duty, reserves, and national guard. They must be required to train, and to control their weapons as is done on a military base. Should they misuse their weapon or be negligent in its care, they should face a court martial and do their time in the brig.

                Of course, a simple gun buy back program could help us ‘drain the system’ of the excess firearms that drive up our homicide rates. The problem of too many guns isn’t to simply add more guns – amazing to me people don’t see the self-serving nature of that argument by gun manufacturers and the gun lobby.

                If France had a Paris/Bataclan-style shooting every day of the year, they would still have a lower per capita gun homicide rate that the U.S.

                • This statement of the high homicide rate in the US is pure nonsense unless it specifies the locations of these homicides and the communities in which the occur and the profiles of the perpetrators. The US is not homogeneous.

                  By the way, more effective than banning guns (though I do not own one): train us all in their use and equip the citizenry; restore a sense of community and brotherly love; decrease the proliferation of violent media: television, films, music and video games; restore blue laws and church attendance. The fact that none of this will occur because of our commitment to mammon and other idols is proof that we are not serious–progressives included–about reducing gun and other violence. W’ere into lip service and deflection.

                  Christ is in our midst. Would that we would acknowledge Him, plead His mercy and give Him glory. We could start here . . .


                • Michael Warren says

                  There is a direct correlation between citizen disarmament and homicide. As people are disarmed they become more apt to be victims of crime, terrorism and massaacres. San Bernardino! Chicago, DC, Detroit, Oakland, etc. are prime examples of the stupidity and murderous nature of citizen disarmament chronicling 50 years of murderous, FAILED, liberal gun control.

                  And there is a direct correlation between gun ownership and crime prevention, what the statistics he cites actually say. See his studies lumped police and citizen use of guns to prevent crime, murders, rapes, homicides together with their correlation into gun violence indicating where the citizenry is armed there is a direct correlation with deterence. But it is not uncommon for liberals to lie or skew the truth to advance their agenda. Notice he went straight to dictating policy after he dropped his agitprop. As if the matter had been decided and his liberal propaganda rant was gospel.

                  People are waking up and realizing that the greatest threat to liberty and the democratic way of life around the globe is Western liberalism.

            • Daniel E Fall says

              Actually, if all gun sales needed to be registered, the person that sold the AR15s would have had to register the sale or be culpable for crimes committed by the purchaser. Then if one guy had two gun purchases of AR15s and had recently traveled last 5 years to Syria or Pakistan; he might have been on a watch list, or even hauled into court.

              What I want to see from you right wingers is how you are going to explain away your liberal gun laws supporting terrorists in the US.

              Obama’s fault. Yeah.

              • Michael Bauman says

                Sure, Big Brother really solves the problem of violence. Last I checked not much private gun ownership in Paris is there? Could be wrong. ….and yet neither will a massive amount of locks, bolts, guns and knives solve the problem.

                But people intent on mayhem will always find the means to acquire destructive capability and they will generally have larger arms than most who simply wish to protect themselves. Any security can be breached and overcome by a determined foe except……?

                What would reduce violence of all kinds is teaching and learning virtue as classically defined by the Church. I am not good at that and I can, in fact, quite easily see myself participating in all manners of behavior that is a perversion of virtue. It is so much easier to tell others how things should be fixed.

                The healing of sin starts in my own heart and I am far from the Kingdom.

                As to public policy: Let’s face it: we have become a secular fascist state and all political parties are fine with that. Whatever policy it is is, no matter its intentions, it will always go wrong. Adding more rotten planks to an unstable edifice does not make the edifice stronger or better.

                Governments are inherently incapable of making anything intrinsically better. They can occasionally ameliorate suffering and hold evil at bay. Mostly they just manage to make things worse except for those who rule.

                Governments are really good at blowing things up (kinda like Mythbusters on steroids). They are massively bad at anything truly creative especially when said government is driven by the horrific philosophy of egalitarianism–the ultimate Procrustean bed.

                Watch and pray for you know not the hour or the day….

              • Michael Warren says

                All gun sales in the state of California to be legal must go through background checks.

                Criminals, terrorists and crazy people don’t follow your stupid liberal gun laws which get innocent people killed by disarming them!

                In the day, my political views were referred to as “pinko” and the target of Sen. McCarthy and all patriotic Anti-Communists so referring to me as Rightwing is definitely preposterous. As unread, ridiculous and inane as your failed and murderous, liberal views on gun control.

                • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                  Michael Warren prefers LIBERAL gun laws. By the way, California’s gun laws are really WEAK! Their “bACKGROUND CHECKS” CONSIST solely OF CHECKING RECORDS. No bacgrounds are investigated or looked into, but people like Mr Warren think they are somehow “oppressive!” What an idea! Even though weak, they are only good for the past—one may begin to be arrested for all sorts of crimes after the background check, and no one will be the wiser!

                  Uhorsky has NOTHING TO DO WITH Hungary, but with Hory (Gory)—MOUNTAINS/HILLS. get it?

                  Ugrsky is NOT UHORSKY-(UGORSKY).

                  There was an old Russian duchess in Dallas back in the 60s. I believe her ashes were buried next to the old St Seraphim Church. One day, in Father Dimitri’s office, he played tht old LP of Hilko’s choir. The Album cover mentioned “Uhorsky Chant.” George Allman asked, “What does “Uhorsky” mean? The doughty duchess nswered, “My dear, those are the people of the SHWAMP!”

                  • Michael Warren says

                    The Ruthenian word for Hungarians is Uhry, Your Grace. The word for Hungary is Uhorschina. Some of these Russian Slavs migrated with the Magyars when they crossed over the Steppes of Pontus over the Carpathians to occupy the territory they do now.

                    The word for mountaineer in Ruthenian is hornyak, and it is even a common surname.

                    Svyatoi Moisei Ugrin, St. Moses the Hungarian.

                  • Michael Warren says

                    California background checks are computerized going straight the FBZI database and they are required on all purchases.

                    Now, those aren’t police state interviews with subjects treating them like felons, but by no means is this infringement of liberty lax or free. It rather empowers liberals , terrorists and crazy people unarmed by its ridiculousness.

                    Stupid liberal gun laws kill!

                    Should you have to be registered and monitored by the government to be a minister or express your point of view on the internet, Your Grace? Therefore what you suggest is a police infringement of citizen sovereignty and unAmerican.

                  • Michael Warren says

                    I prefer liberty and citizens sovereignty as expounded by the Founding Fathers and deride anything and everything liberal as debauched insanity.

                  • Daniel E Fall says

                    Yes, that is the nut of it Bishop Tikhon.

                    The conservatives want liberal gun laws.

                    The liberals want conservative gun laws.

                    So, imagine if the fbi had known the San Bernadino dynamic duo had traveled to Syria or Pakistan and bought 2 9mm and 2 AR15s. Maybe they would have used that metadata to at least watch their internet activity via FISA. Oh, but the AR15s were a private sale requiring no government intrusion (sic).

                    Of course, this would be a gross invasion of privacy and a violation of all liberal thought. A couple of times watching jihadi videos and they might have had their guns seized. Lord have mercy.

                    It would have been an American tragedy having a private citizens guns seized by the liberal leftists.

                    I think the right is in trouble on this stuff. They have no answer, just the answer no.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      Dan, you’re operating under the assumption that our government would have wanted to keep tabs on the San Bernadino couple before, during and after their migration to these United States. Parts of our govt yes –the FBI yes, maybe Homeland Security–but not the Ruling Class.

                      The more immigrants (of whatever stripe) come to our homeland, the better. They simply don’t care if millions of Third World immigrants “flood the zone.” Such an inundation strips away our homogeneity, increases distrust, makes more people poor and increases the dependence of all us on Federal largesse.

                      It’s called “electing a new people.” That is why Angela Merkel is being praised by Time Magazine even though she is the most hated woman in her country.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      I respectfully disagree with your assumptions.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Sir, the people who brought us Fast and Furious and who created, fund, trained, armed, defend and safehouse Al Qaeda and ISIS used people like this for false flags in their policies by Reichstag fires. Everything is according to script.

                  • Michael Warren says

                    The state of California mandates background checks on all gun transactions employing the FBI NICS national database and a California police database. It is one of the strictest in the country and as San Bernardino showed did nothing but get unarmed citizens dead because terrorists evaded stupid liberal gun laws and sought out disarmed targets of opportunity. What are you areadvocating, Your Grace, was accessory to the murder of those people.

                    The only stricter system of gun prohibition is outright bans and as Britain has shown these liberal stupities do nothing but increase crime and homicides. Because criminals and crazy people and terrorists do not follow, but rather EVADE, stupid liberal gun laws. Where disarmed people become victims as a result.

                    Moreover, it is tyrannical injustice and indecency to punish the innocent for the crimesif the guilty. Thus, liberalism reveals its authoritarian assault upon civil liberties.

                    Liberal gun laws kill and assault liberty.

                    The Ruthenian word for mountaineer is hornyak and it is even a common Ruthenian surname. Uhorschina, Ruthenian for Hungary. Root Uhor, Hungarian.

                    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                      Mr Warren! The combination of a local police check ad what security professionals call a “NAC” (National Agencies Check) is the very lowest possible kind of “background check” there IS! You naively call it STRICT! There are NO strict gun control laws in the United States of America. They are totally ineffective, weak, and LIBERAL.
                      You refer to punishin the innocent. Who’s being PUNISHED?
                      i like you, hate liberal gun laws, too! I prefer strict gun laws. Strict, Michael, is the opposite of liberal. Get it?
                      “Ruthenians” are what Austrians call the peoples of “Rus” (a Scandinavian word).or the big mish-mash of East Slavic tribes. “Some prefer the appellation “Little Russian” as denoting the people of “minimum” “essential” or “inner” Russia, while “Great Russia” is the multi-ettnic extension of the kernel of Rus. I think Poles prefer “Rusyns”, rather than Ruthenian, even though “Ruthenian” has Latino-Papal associations. No linguistic scientists/philologists ever use athe word to denote a language. Scholars who have no dog in the anti-Ukrainian dogfight accept and use the word “Ukrainian” to describe that particular variation of East Slavic.

                      I hope some day strict gun laws will be enacted by legislatures. No guns–no shootings, get it? Now there are no strict gun laws, except maybe in Holy Russia!,

                    • Michael Warren says

                      The Second Amendment reads the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed. Stupid liberal gun laws as in the gun laws advocated by police state democrats have a history of murdering innocent people while empowering criminals, terrorists and crazy people who evade these stupid and fascist infringements upon liberty.

                      You advocate fascism, Your Grace, in hatred of American democracy. That is a fringe point of view.

                      In ethnography, Your Grace, Russian East and West is distinguished between the use of words Russian versus Ruthenian. Only Uniate chimpanzees from Galicia assume every Western Russian territory is Ukrainian, and there is no such ethnicity historically. There are Red, Black, White, Carpatho Ruthenians while Rusyn is a modern transliteration of the word which reads Rusin. The Ukrainian lands since Constantinople created a new Metropolia for them at Kiev at the insistence of the Lithuanian crown after the original was canonically transferred to Moscow were historically known as Rosiya Mikra, ie Little Russia and from Byzantine times the entire area including both Metropolias was known as Rosiya, RUSSIA, from at least the ninth century. The appellation Malorossiya was employed by the Russian Brotherhoods to describe these lands which were also known as Podyaremnaya Rus’, ie Imprisoned Rus’. Moreover in these Russian brotherhoods the hellenized proper name Rossiya was born, at Kiev in the sixteenth century. Prior to that all was Rus’. Even Schevczenko and Franko referred to themselves as Rusins (properly transliterated that way) with Schevczenko regularly referring to himself as Little Russian or simply Russian and never Ukrainian. Your radical ideas on the region resort to quack anachronisms unknown until the twentieth century to describe the people in question. Please refrain from impugning your office with such base and uninformed Ukrainian quackery and russophobia. Your ideas were a staple of NAZI nationalities policy in the Eastern lands and many of their authors hanged after the war as NAZI war criminals.

              • Why would the guy that sold a gun in an honest and constitutional manner be held culpable for crimes performed with that gun? Is a legal gun dealer now to be a de facto law enforcement officer for the state? Boy, you love you some vast, all-seeing, oppressive state, fella.

                By your illogic, Sears would be culpable for any pressure cooker used as a terrorist’s bomb, Ford would be culpable for any car driven into an unsuspecting crowd, and Ace Hardware would be culpable for selling box cutter knives, rasps, ice picks, chisels, wood-carving kits, etc., etc. (I’ve got it—let’s ban everything and go back to living in caves.) I was under the impression that God had given us free will. You must believe we’re not responsible for our own actions.

                And, for some odd reason, you are assuming that 1) weapons traffic is capable of being tightly and reliably controlled–it can’t–and 2) that insane terrorists stand in line like law-abiding citzens and register their weapons like them, as well. (“If you’re registering a surface-to-air missle, you can step to this line! RPG’s are down the hall.”)

                Tell us you’re joking.

                • Daniel E Fall says

                  It is simple. Every gun sale gets a background check.

                  The joke is the Republican party is facilitating terrorism.

                  Face the music.

                  The Republicans are going to get the credits for allowing no background checks.

                  You know that many gun sales occur no background check. That is the need.

                  Have you seen the $1.49 nugget commercial? You are the scoffing politician who has no real answer.

                  Cogent-yes, background checks.
                  Comedic-no background checks the black market won’t follow the law anyway (this is who need be culpable)

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Every time you worship in church or vote or speak out or peaceably assemble or write a tract you need to pass a background check and be monitored by the government too, right?

                    Let’s break it down for you. The sovereign of the state is the citizenry who deputizes a government to implement their sovereign will, not rule over them like inmates in a prison.

                    But statist liberal nonsense like this is precisely why liberalism is a dinosaur.

                    I am not a Republican. I am a Red. So these inane, Daily Koz talking points, artless and effette, need to go back to that narcisstic and irrelevant, bizarro world where the 15% fringe who believes them can appreciate them.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      Funny how you conjoin gun and speech rights.

                      I suppose a tongue lashing is no different than being on the recieving end of an AR15?

                      Another Scooby Doo moment on Monomakhos.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      You don’t have free speech rights without the right to bear arms.

                      When will liberals begin to read?

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Because gun rights secure all the other rights. Did you sleep through American history? Thomas Jefferson? James Madison? Maybe you need to hire Scooby Doo to find you copies of the Federalist and Antifederalist Papers. You might realize how fringe and unAmerican your liberal ideas are.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      If you believe free speech only happens if you are packing, you are living in the past.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Not my point at all. But you could read all about what my position actually is here because it has been amplified. And i suggest you do get in a good read in of primary documents and the law before you venture out into deep waters again. People don’t want to read whiney KOZ spam. Thank you.

          • Daniel E Fall says

            The 2nd Amendment is misinterpreted. The founders needed militias to defend against an invader.

            The founders never envisioned the mothers of children with Asbergers considering their children normal via purchasing AR15s for them.

            Even Chris Kyle underestimated the problems associated with guns and mental illness.

            From my perspective, the f’n gun rights lobby is so SCARED; they all may have trouble with the MMPI.

            Well, of course Warren said it best. Who needs speed limits? They really want to take your car.

            Obummer says it best. The federal government can put a Muslim radical on a no fly list, but not a no buy list. Oh, well, he could buy from a neighbor. And we don’t want to stop private gun sales.

            The requiem is for those poor souls not carrying the AR15 into ToysRUs for protection. What fools.

            Would that mass allow guns?

            • Michael Warren says

              The Founding Fathers assumed citizen sovereignty enforced by gun owners constituting citizen militias which would not cede policing and military responsibilities to government agencies.

              This is all gone over in the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers where many of your DNC talking points were addressed and rejected as undemocratic.

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says


              NO DNC talking points are referenced at all in those Papers, let alone addressed or rejected!

              • Michael Warren says

                When the Second Amendment was penned it was predicated on citizen volunteers using their personal weapons and rallying to national interests to protect their citizen sovereignty.

                • Daniel E Fall says

                  Yes, but Michael, the times have changed and anyone who is a strict constitutionalist or archaic conservative is fooling himself. The founding fathers would have never dreamed another citizen with his wife would take two AR15s to a cocktail party in the name of Mohammed. You cannot rationalize it away and suggest any attempt to stop a terrorist is social liberalism. In fact, it does not even meet classic conservativism. Stopping terrorism is not social engineering Michael. It is the government protecting its citizens.

                  The state requires a title for every vehicle owned and sold. But a gun requires nothing. Sales between private parties are fine.

                  Private gun sales without a broker must end.

                  I sold a gun years ago to a 16 year old kid and his mom. Today I would find that irresponsible. And while you enjoy any reference to the state as Naziism, you are missing a few key bits. We have term limits and have no coup or takeover. And while gun ownership may be a part of the reasons why, I am not a proponent of banning anything. Just that any gun be titled or registered. Then if a gun is found that is not titled, it is an illegal weapon and more criminals can be apprehended for having unregistered firearms. And a gun sold without a title or registry can fall back on the seller for a crime of selling without registration and punishment can be proportioned to crimes committed.

                  And for just a moment Michael, ask yourself this question. Can I protect myself against a government with the military might of the US? The answer is simple and all the round recommendations from the AR15 guys becomes rather foolish.

                  Furthermore, the liberal on gun ownership is you. What is a liberal Michael? A classic liberal believes in individual freedom. i.e. gun ownership

                  Stop condemning all liberals because you are a liberal on the issue of gun ownership. And the liberals wanting to ban guns are social liberals that believe government will solve all social problems (count me out). Hitler’s idea was killing the Jews to solve social problems. His was a deranged notion and others followed. Your constant reference to Jews and Hitler degrades your commentary. The only deranged persons are those following Islamic jihad.

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Since almost everything you keep repeating has been addressed and rebutted here, let me refer you back to the various entries made with the recommendation you actually begin reading what is written and stop repeating irrational, liberal talking points.

                    1). Strict constructionism applies to how the court’s interpret the law in light of the Constitution and not liberals whining to foist their authoritarian policy vision on a populace which will not vote for their crazy homicidal ideas and give them their way. You advocate fundamental infringement of liberty and scrapping the bill of rights. You advocate a revision of a social contract which has served this country well for centuries to put in place a police state which you call progressive. And no one so much can get a vote to determine if that’s what they want. Anyone who opposes your liberal dictatorship you label as the conservative GOP opposition even when they are far more democratic and to the left of your failed and effette ideology.

                    Then you don’t like people illustrating to you how your methods were employed by fascists and are the hallmark of their policy vision. Instead of thinking twice, listening, you go into a repetition of rants which only shows you and the politics you espouse to be more cynical and more ideologically bankrupt. When you ape people intentionally spamming here to disrupt a message they realize has answered them but they refuse to accept you make yourself out to be a wannabe ideologue refusing to accept reality.

                    Strict constructionism is the standard we the people operate on until we the people use the Constitutional democratic process to change it. While the founders called for insurrection and revolution when anyone would undemocratically try to change it and infringe liberty. That’s why you keep getting referred back to founding documents so that you can understand how America is supposed to work. Where if you don’t like it you can either try to reason with others to come to agreements or find another place to live where people agree with you. But your views are that of a fringe minority and you don’t have the votes to impose the will of your liberal echo chamber on America. No one can have their liberty infringed without due process.

                    2). The literal definition of liberal versus liberal policy is precisely the irony. Liberal government rests on citizen sovereignty and democratic franchise with due process and rule of law. Liberal policy manipulates masses with false flags, economic injustice, political fads dejour to secure the rights of a privileged few who own a figurative ideological plantation where they herd the masses and ration ideological and social treats for those they enserf. It is a fascist overthrow of democracy licensing itself to every immoral means which suits their selfish ends which are often assaults against liberty and even crimes against humanity, aptly compared to Adolph Hitler and NAZI Germany (who killed 4x as many others as he did Jews).

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      Mr Warren.

                      1. Main point you made in #1 above is “No one can have their liberty infringed without due process”.

                      Counterpoint. James Holmes, the Colorado theatre shooter, was being seen by a psychiatrist because he was obsessed with killing people. Your obsession with his liberty to possess firearms resulted in what?

                      Your obsession with Adam Lanza’s liberty to own weapons resulted in what? Adam Lanza’s mother wanted him to be committed because he was so wackerdoodles. He stopped her, and killed a schoolroom full of 5 year olds, before acting out his final liberty of blowing his own brains out. But he was a free man. Hooray!

                      Your obsession with Sayid Farook’s liberty resulted in what?

                      No wordsmithing from me. Three sound examples where due process fails. Or you could at least have due process mean they have to be of sound mind before getting a gun, or just like a teacher with an abuse reporting obligation, the shrink could have had a reporting obligation to NCIS. Live and let live? You can pound the drum for me.

                      2. You keep misusing fascism. You have construed your own definition to be anytime government requires anything of anyone, or as a pejorative to describe the opposing view. And while there can be endless debates defining facism, most everyone here on this website has come to the conclusion that reflecting on Hitler is done when you have failed in your argument. This will bother you I’m sure because it is a full discount. Facism, however, is generally considered to be an extreme right wing ideal. It typically marries the state and corporations like Halliburton or Blue Cross/Blue Shield. These are perhaps the closest thing we have to facism in the US. I can think of others…Bush Jr on a few things like housing and open ended credit for big banks. But neither are comparable to Hitler, although some leftists might say H and you might say BCBS. I find you to be sort of a chicken little on this issue. Because I don’t think Adam Lanza or James Holmes should have had guns, you think I advocate for a violent overthrow of government and a revamping of the entire constitution. That sir, is a wild fantasy you have created.

                      A felon can only get a gun under adjudicated relief, but a guy seeing a psychiatrist for wanting to kill people can legally purchase at Wal Mart. And that is just not okay.

                      I would never advocate for a ban on weapons. It would be foolhardy. Kind of like suggesting shipping 11 million illegals back to Mexico on busses for the next 20 years. Just about 25-30? times magnified in stupidity. I’d be standing with you if it ever were suggested.

                      And I am not in a fringe minority on this issue. As recently as this year, the Pew research center found that 85% of Americans prefer greater background checks, about 10% more Dems than Reps per the study, like 88-79.

                      Now, if the state required everyone to go to court to get gun rights, I’d be standing with you as well. But I have no problem with a reporting hierarchy where if a certain individual is flagged, they would need to adjudicate for relief, just like a felon. Certain people would not be allowed to flag and others would be required to do so. Like doctors would be required to eliminate the Lanzas and Holmes from gun ownership. As for the terrorist, the FISA courts are considered a sort of due process already, but he slipped through some gaping holes. Those holes could have been reduced with better metadata work.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      Messrs Lanza and Holmes were as you say “wackerdoodles.” In previous generations they could have been –and would have been–confined to insane asyla for their (and our) own good.

                      Using your logic, we should outlaw all marriage because some marriages wind up in messy divorces.

                      I see no reason why my rights to own firearms (should I want to) should be infringed. I am neither a wackerdoodle, criminal or scofflaw. In addition, I carry my own freight and have never been a burden on the State or my fellow citizens.

                      A sinner yes but that’s between me and the Lord and not your’s nor the State’s business.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Again, you have been answered regarding your tired liberal talking points which have done nothing but get innocent people dead. Criminals, crazy people and terrorists don’t follow your stupid liberal gun laws! They evade them. Infringing liberty in the hopes that you could prevent their evasion of your stupid, liberal gun laws has only disarmed people of their protection and made them greater targets of opportunity. They evade your laws and you don’t have the right to infringe the liberty of INNOCENT people for the crimes of the guilty. The only effective, democratic deterrent to their crimes is an armed populace.

                      To be adjudicated as insane, a hearing is held in court and you are committed. Once you are, you forfeit certain rights like gun rights and your name is reported to the NICS data base, but that doesn’t stop crazy people from getting guns off the street that have been put there by the liberal regime you support in programs like Fast and Furious or as aid to “Syrian Freedom Fighters.” These mutants when they perpetrate acts of terror are the guilty parties. Not the citizenry. When they do so with weapons already banned by your effette and stupid liberal gun laws which disarmed their victims, they are really staging a false flag for you to push your murderous liberal gun policy. Your crazy ideas armed or didn’t stop the felons from being armed but they did disarm law abiding people and make them targets. Now that these people are dead due to your stupid, liberal policies, you want to use the crime to disarm even more.

                      When you buy a firearm you fill out a form which asks if you are insane, have ever been adjudicated as such, if you are a felon, if you have renounced your citizenship, if you are a citizen, if you are under the influence of drugs. Depending on your answer, you are automatically disqualified from purchase if you admit to violating the law. But criminals, terrorists and crazy people don’t follow the law so whatever law there is WON’T STOP THEM. The only means to end their mayhem is an armed citizenry capable of answering their threat of violence and not becoming its victim.

                      Your chief stumbling block to your policy vision is due process which you want to curtail and liberty which you feel is overated. And you say you are not a fascist?

                      Fascism is defined as Rightwing by people who need oversimplified definitions. Truly your neoliberalism in all its colonialist, police state splendor IS right-wing tyranny. But fascism is authoritarian statism or corporatism whose chief mode of operation is the imposition of an order of control and mandated thought upon a population utilizing the superstructure, the government (police and military) to impose its will on a populace it subjugates infringing liberty. Through violence and coercion. An armed populace with the capability of overthrowing this type of regime is the chief stumbling block to its establishment. You want to remove that. You seem to want to ignore the capabilities of revolutionary struggle and asymetric warfare, but you think an armed citizenry is too dangerous. ????!!!!!

                      Since you have no respect for the social contract, try to manipulate false flag scenarios to infringe liberty when you realize you could not accomplish any of your goals democratically that makes your views fascist. You are trying to impose with every deception and artifice you can obfuscate and contrive an infringement on liberty predicated on punishing the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. That is fascism even when you repeat it from someone you heard on C bs, CNN or MSNBC or Faux News.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      George-your logic is a leap into fallacy. Since I lauded your last post on the tree of terror; you should know it isn’t a personal thing.

                      Marriage and a person who wants to kill have zilch in common, save the comedy.

                      There is nothing wrong with my logic. It is applied versus the status quo of doing nothing.

                      Just recognize who closed the nuthouses if you head down that road.

                      But Holmes should have been committed.

                    • M. Stankovich says

                      The foolishness of this discussion of the “right to bear arms” and personally carrying a concealed weapon for self-protection and the protection of one’s family is that, in the case of these terroristic attacks, the average American gun owner – including law enforcement – are so out-calibered & over-powered by military grade weapons that a handgun is pointless. I have witnessed and one time tested the use of this grade a weapon in the corrections system, and the power is frightening. Larger metro areas have refitted themselves with military-style protective vests for law enforcement personnel as an AR15 ordinate is capable of passing through a vehicle, through a customary “bullet-proof” vest, through the officer, and again exiting through the vehicle. First responders who meet up with active shooters in body armor and AR15 class weapons are sitting ducks. And the AR15 has a sustained firing rate of 180 rounds per minute without modification – and “recipies” for modification and illegal magazines for 100 rounds are easily found on the internet.

                      So, where there are more citizens with weapons, crime rates go down? Show me the actual research, not just some trolling “assurance” of my liberal thought. And to be truly safe, does this mean if I wish to go to dinner with my wife I need to consider the neighborhood, the facility, the population that frequents the facility, and consult the city’s crime rate for that section of the city and choose my evening weapon accordingly? Up to and including a military-style, semi-automatic long gun to match power-for-power? And exactly what caliber a weapon will protect from the hateful & effete faux news zombies on my way to the grocery store? Think about while you listen to the SRV classic, Crossfire.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      You don’t want to believe assurances. But confer with the data from the American South and West over the last 25 years which shows a reduction in crime as citizens became more capable of owning firearms.

                      You don’t know much about weapons, do you? An AR15 fires a .223 caliber projectile, a .22. It is not going to penetrate through people then all the through both sides of a vehicle. Even M855, SS109 ball barely penetrates some vests at close range
                      While a 12 gauge slug penetrates most. And the regime in power told people to buy shotguns.

                      So the trolling here is all your own. Founded on the same stupid liberal fallacy. You do not have a right to infringe the freedoms of the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. Repeat that to yourself until you understand it. Then get finally that criminals, crazy people, and terrorists don’t follow laws.

                    • M. Stankovich says

                      Hmm, what to make of a sniper test of the M15 in 2013 them embedded – read it again – embedded a standard military issue M855 in a standard metal gong target at a distance of one kilometer – read it again – one kilometer 10 out of 50 shots? Swallow hard, amigo, as they were all considered “lethal human shots” had they struck a head or lung at one kilometer. Granted, this is at the the hand of an exceptionally skilled marksman. So, what are your thoughts again about it passing through a motor vehicle and 14-layers of standard Kevlar at 20 yards? No? How about 50 yards? As a matter of fact, put your insulting talk on the line and I will loan you my 14-layered Kevlar vest and have a skilled colleague shoot you with an M15 from a 100-yards. Sure you would… Criminals, crazy people, and terrorists don’t follow laws, and trolls deny research and maps. I’m done with you, troll. You’ve proven yourself.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Again, the standard liberal stupidity of writing things beyond your paygrade laced with innaccuracies, outright lies and laden with invective. Then this unfortunate person has the audacity to write of trolling. Pathetique, and that word is offended used in reference to a pointless, renovationist liberal.

                      Firstly, there is nothing to make of a “sniper” shooting an M15, because there is no such US military weapon. Now some civilian AR15s have been named M15s, but they are not used by “snipers.” Now what is used by “snipers” in the military built upon the M16 platform and/or shooting a 5.56N projectile? The USMC has used modified M16A4s with telescopic sights for engagements WITHIN 600 meters as a DMR, designated marksmanship rifle. The US Army used a similar weapon until replacing it over 6 years ago for a 7.62N rifle, because it found the 5.56N “not sufficiently suited to the role.” SOCOM units, special operations command, use a shorter variant of this rifle called an SPR, for engagements no further than 500 meters. Already in 2003 it was being reported by the USMC and US Army alike that M855 round was insufficiently lethal and not acceptably accurate out to long ranges where once the round fell below 2700 FPS, within ~150 Meters for an M4 Carbine and within 300 Meters for an M16 Rifle, its lethality was regarded as “combat ineffective.” This prompted the US military to commission such rounds as 6.8 SPC and the .300 Blackout as possible replacements due to the rounds “inferior wounding and barrier breaching capabilities and limited range of the 5.56N employing standard M855 ball.” For marksmanship applications the US military at first tried 69 grain BTHP SMK bullets but found no appreciable gain in range in their issue before developing the MK262 round which uses a 77 grain BTHP SMK bullet. This round is rated by the military as being combat effective unto 700 meters. NONE of these rounds, including the M855 have the penetration characteristics stated. M855 has been noted as “being more capable of penetrating a car windshield,” but not armor plate (save at extremely close range) and certainly not several layers of Kevlar vest and definitely not at 1000 yards.

                      All of what this liberal troll contrived is nothing but prevarication made up by people who both have no real world experience and don’t know what they are talking about, and should be taken in the same way as gun control studies by liberals who had at the outset neither a genuine regard for truth coupled with the intention of furthering their murderous agendas BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE. But as this liberal poseur has illustrated, they will lie and fake it to make anyone who doesn’t know better believe them.

                      In the Crimea in 2014, there was a pronounced low mortality rate due to two factors. 1). Russian soldiers were given strict rules of engagement which required direct orders from command to be able to return fire which Banderofascist/other special forces were indeed engaging in upon Russian soldiers both as provocation and limited resistance BUT it was found that 2). neither the 5.45 round used by Banderofascists and the 5.56N (both steel core rounds) used by their allies, the round you so famously know nothing about, “were incapable of penetrating Russian body armor, made with “layers of kevlar and other ballistic weave.”

                      Finally, those people who do shoot 5.56N at 1000 meters do so generally with LONG barreled bolt action rifles, long in the 26″-30″ barrel range. These rifles generally have a magazine capacity of 4-5 rounds. Projectiles used at this range weigh from 80-90 grains, are not known for armor piercing capabilities and are certainly not 62 grain steel core (which creates inconsistent accuracy at long range) M855. Nor are these rifles known as M15s. Moreover, these weapons are not known as being used by criminals or “snipers,” including military marksmen at such ranges.

                      So with that I put the liberal trash on the curb as nothing but lying, preposterous rubbish. But then some liberal will say well what about 30 round magazines? Let’s put that to rest too. The usurper regime in power has made it a point to tell people to buy a shotgun to defend themselves with the incompetent in the Oval Office being photoshopped with an over/under 12 gauge double barrel skeet gun. Such a weapon loaded with standard number 4 Buckshot is capable of shooting 24 .24 balls with the same lethal force of a 5.56N M855 round. 24 rounds per pull of the trigger versus 1 .223 round. Both barrels of the regime in power’s 12 Gauge can discharge 48 rounds in less than 2 seconds and wreck greater damage than the 30 round AR15. The British found during the Malayan Emergency in the 1950s that one ball shot from a #4 Buckshot shell was capable of lethally wounding an insurgent. Now just as twelve gauge number 4 Buckshot is not used by law abiding citizens to murder people so too 30 round magazines are not. The people who would use either will not follow murderous, liberal gun laws: they will evade them and illegally obtain what they need. And the only deterrent then becomes citizens who can stop them with a loaded weapon. Harsh language and political correctness or pictures of Michael Bloomberg probably won’t. Nor are innocent people guilty of the crimes of criminals, nor can the rights of the innocent be infringed to punish the guilty in a civil society.

              • Michael Warren says

                The issues of citizen arms ownership versus government prohibitions are addressed in the Federalist and AntiFederalist Papers. The Founders had fought a Revolution fighting against the gun control initiatives of the British crown which mirror and predate stupid, liberal, gun control laws and DNC talking points.

          • Michael Warren says

            Actually, I wear a red star cockade on my cap and a St. George ribbon. So I am the furthest person out there from a faux news zombie. Thank GOD I am not anything as hateful and effete as a liberal. And I believe Thomas Jefferson’s writings on an armed citizenry are an appropriate democratic response and venue for further study for those who wish to understand the mechanics of opposition to the liberal, police state. Your grace, you definitely want to be accurate when addressing a topic so that people are not scandalized even when you don’t seem to be accurate.

            California has severe restrictions on gun rights which disarmed the victims of an Islamist terrorist cell the Emperor liberal in the White House said was not a threat to American citizens. This cell recently visited Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, one of America’s chief co sponsors of ISIS. Then it came back, violated liberal gun laws and bans because criminals and crazy people don’t flow stupid liberal gun laws or tyrannical liberal weapons bans. Thus, they took advantage of liberal gun laws and weapons bans and murdered people disarmed by liberals. Liberal gun control policy killed those people.

            But the liberal answer is what now? No, instead of buying these Islamists brand new Toyotas, they wish to further terrorist, Islamist struggle and assault American liberty. So here we go – More stupid liberal gun laws and weapons bans so that even more people can become targets of crime and victims of massacres. More people can die at the hands of Islamist terror sponsored by the liberal regime in power…

            Never let a tragedy go to waste. Been that way since the Reichstag fire and the Gulf of Tonkin.

            And now law abiding gun owners are to be forced to wear “Jude” on their clothing.

            Yeah, as both WWII and the Vietnam War showed, the resolve of citizen partisans tends to curtail fascist tyranny.

            Criminals and crazy people don’t follow stupid liberal gun laws and tyrannical, liberal weapons bans. CRIMINALS PERPETRATE CRIMES AND WILFULLY VIOLATE THE LAW! CRAZY PEOPLE ARE TOO INSANE TO RESPECT LAW! It is idiotic to presume that more laws will somehow force criminals and crazy people into compliance. By their nature, they exist as persons who neither respect, understand or can be rationally assumed to follow the law. This is not rocket science. And it just may be the case that the weapons used by these crazed terrorist criminals were passed on through US spooks to “Syrian freedom fighters.”

            These people were radicalized with ideology and religious fanaticism to perpetrate acts of terror to promote an assault upon liberty and order. They deliberately engaged in an act of terror to assault American citizen sovereignty and weaken the American political system and to kill Americans, made vulnerable by stupid liberal gun laws which these terrorists exploited.

            Let’s remember that the liberals instead of having vetted them and having taken seriously the threat to the general public represented by Saudi Islamist “freedom fighters” instead compare them to the pilgrims and wish to validate their Islamist revolutionary struggle. The Kenyan Emperor in the White House has spoken. It is always someone else’s fault when America suffers due to his rank incompetence.

            Alas, there will be no Farenheit 9/11s to celebrate the bizarre inanity of failed, liberal policy.

            Such liberal ridiculousness is fascinating in its hubris, shamelessness and bathos. Liberal red, white, and blue uber alles fading into brown…

            Now some believe that all law abiding Americans must be held accountable for the crimes of criminals and crazy people in Jerry Brown’s liberal social experiment and be punished. The liberal answer is to without trial pronounce guilt on American citizen sovereignty and infringe, revoke the liberty of law abiding Americans as the scape goat of criminals and crazy people created, enabled and empowered by stupid, liberal policies. The liberals want to punish innocent Americans for the crimes committed by criminals liberals created to advance liberal social transformation and subjugation of citizens they seek to turn into subjects.

            One armed citizen, trained and proficient, allowed to be on the scene would have stopped this mayhem or definitely lessened its severity. Such a citizen was prevented from being there by stupid, liberal gun policy.

            I am not guilty of crimes committed in California perpetrated by criminals and crazy people who were enabled to perpetrate them by stupid, liberal gun control and gun bans. Had law abiding citizens have been armed or the State Dept done its job and not have supported Islamist “freedom fighters” and their oasis in the Saudi monarchy, the people massacred would be alive today.

            The blood of those massacred rests on stupid liberal control which does not work and the massacre was empowered by neo liberal colonial foreign policy which is actually radicalizing and training and arming and funding Islamists to perpetrate these acts. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a neo liberal muckity muck passing out cookies to the remaining orc that did this and saying thank you for the propaganda liberals would now use to impose fascist policies on Americans.

            Never let a tragedy go to waste.

            But the liberal lunatic fringe is seen for what it is. Americans are on to them and their despicable, witless exploitation of tragedy to assault liberty and citizen sovereignty. Fascism will not pass!

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              Mr Warren! Have another shot of Old Granddad and then go sleep it off. California’s gun laws are, indeed, THE MOST LIBERAL GUN LAWS ONE CAN IMAGINE
              By the way, what do we know about Holy Russia’s gun laws?

              • Michael Warren says

                I think, Your Grace, that your tired attempts at Russophobia detract more than aid your agitprop.

                I am thankful for your lack of restraint in addressing any given topic. It allows me to more clearly illustrate the divide between my position and yours. Yes, I am made more comfortable on the other side by your presentation.

                Lastly, I want to congratulate you on your retirement. It was a cogent and salient position, edifying for both the Diocese of the West and the OCA as a whole. Thank you for such an act of wisdom.

                • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                  Thanks, Mr Warren, >for admitting you can’t answer a simple question about Russia’s gun laws (or are too embarrassed to do).

                  • Michael Warren says

                    Your Grace, I also am not addressing the fire hazards of lint traps in laundromats in the American Southwest, not that I can’t address the topic but because it is non sequiter. And, frankly, I find Russophobia crass, tactless and appalling: I am trying to impress upon you the notion, Your Grace, that such rabbit holes are too small, too undignified and greatly detract from your episcopal dignity. I am respecting your office and ignoring pointless hate.

                    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                      TO ALL. Some of our interlocutors here have expressed their feelings about the utility of gun laws. Quite a few cite foreign examples in support of their feelings, such as the strict gun laws of England. Some point to the low level of gun-related crimes in Great Britain compared to the rate here in America, and some reply by bringing up London’s statistics, even though London is not a country to compare to the U.S.A. I asked one person who is very sensitive about Russia for HIM to tell us the real facts about Russia’s gun laws. I was informed that my request is like “addressing the fire hazards of lint traps.”
                      Can ANYONE here tell us of Russia’s gun laws? Surely there’s SOMEONE out there who is interested in that country?
                      I myself love Russians and Russia, while I loathe everything about the Bolsheviks and am horrified at how the Russian people and their religion suffered under Stalin and company, I don’t believe their being FORCED to defend themselves against an invader who betrayed the trust of the Soviet leadership is a virtue.
                      Although I’ve never known combat, I’ve served in the U.s Army and the U.S. Air Force and am indeed loyal to the red, white, and blue.
                      I do not trust the leadership of the Russian state today, and I do not believe the Church in Russia is free from oppression by that leadership.whether overt or subtle. From the time of the bloody Red revolution until now, I sense that there are those, like Metropolitan Filaret Denisenko’s WIFE was wont to do. who stand proudly on the Kliros holding lighted tapers that do so for reasons having little or nothing to do with their beliefs.
                      I support our President fully, while acknowledging that he is not free from error. I’m amazed that he’s managed to keep us out of total war. I feel that it is too bad that after what his government achieved vis–vis Iran it may be Russian business interests that reap the benefits of the nuclear agreements” Mr Putin’s move in Syria to bolster Assad while IGNORING Daesh, ISIL,gives him an advantage amongst the corrupt conservative business interests in Iran that control the Ayatollah Khamenei. American business interests have been sidelined in Iran before they knew it through Putin’s VERY cunning business sense.

                      I repeat that I love Russia and the Russians (and Ukrainians): they have the broad horizons afforded by the steppe: we have the broad horizons afforded by the Prairie. But President Putin has shown his true lack of good character by his policies and actions vis-a-vis Ukraine and in Russia. Perhaps some future historian will characterize this era as “when Pussy Riot and Putin put in appearances in the Church!”
                      By the way, I’m not going to start worrying at my age about my (UGH) episcopal dignity, I admit failure to get Mr Warren’s attention: he’s too self-involved, maybe. I’m going to give up establishing any kind of rapport with him. I hope Daniel, Edward, and Michael S will be more effective Christians than I in this.
                      It used to be so much easier with the e-mail forums: one could introduce filters tht blocked out certain posters so one wouldn’t accidentally read their output.l

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              Oh, and here’s an example of classic schizophrenic behavior for Mr Warren to meditate on (when he’s not brandishing Berdyaev and Sartre as credentials):

              “Actually, I wear a red star cockade on my cap and a St. George ribbon.”

          • “shall not be infringed”

            • CONSTITUTION:



              “shall not be infringed”

              • Michael Warren says

                …The right of the people to hear arms…

                • Daniel E Fall says

                  …including terrorists?

                  • Michael Warren says

                    No you liberals have armed enough terrorists with Fast & Furious and “aid to Syrian Freedom fighters.”

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      I mean terrorists here at home.

                      You enjoy their liberty to bear arms.

                    • M. Stankovich says

                      Nice article you might want to read here by a researcher at George Washington University:

                      This paper examines the merit of two propositions at the center of the debate on gun control in the aftermath of mass shootings in the United States: (1) gun violence and mass shootings are a cultural artifact (gun enthusiast perspective); (2) gun violence and mass shootings are more prevalent due to lax regulations (pro-gun control perspective). To evaluate the value of each proposition, the study provides three levels of cross-sectional analysis that test the relation between gun culture and gun laws on deaths by guns and mass shootings (international and national incidents). The quantitative analyses points out that both cultural and legislative proposition have significant impacts on deaths by guns. While the cultural explanation seems to be related to an increase in deaths by gun, the legislative perspective is associated with a decrease in deaths by gun and mass shootings. The conclusion provides implications for future policy on gun control.

                      The same author is found here vigorously demonstrating that the general proliferation of guns does not make us safer; and please read the citations he offers from a recent study at Harvard University and another with a link to Google Scholar. Other than your own authority, you cite nothing to suggest the authenticity of your long demonstrations and words, words, words. I suggest you hit Google fast & furiously and substantiate your claims. You have a poor record for answering anything directly.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Fifty years of failed gun control policy versus the decrease in crime in places where gun control has been rolled back contradicts these agendized studies. Moreover, his study would mean places like Chicago, DC, Oakland were among the safest in America. BUT THEY AREN’T, are they? Of course, from the outset this researcher wanted to prove that less gun restriction enhanced deterrents! But of course not.

                      And the dialogue addressed these points. You may want to read it or not before engaging in repetition.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      I enjoy MY liberty as a law abiding citizen to bear arms and my rights can’t be infringed because of the crimes of others. Because I am not guilty of them! How hard is that to get?

                      If your Planned Parenthood vivisectionist friend here as a liberal engages in acts of blasphemy in church, does that mean all liberals should be prevented from entering Orthodox churches? Or if the retired, liberal Russophobic Bishop, not understanding the drug and libertine culture liberal social engineering has propagated since the 1960s AKA Narco-Sensualism, here amnesties banderofascist ethnic cleansing while insulting the Russian Orthodox church does that make you responsible for his behavior to the point you should be seen as guilty with him for his unfortunate views and behavior because you also are a liberal?

                      Besides the only people insuring the capability of terrorists to bear arms are liberals like yourself arming them in the hopes of false flags through programs like Fast and Furious and “aid to Syrian Freedom fighters.”

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      There is nothing wrong with a medical doctor finding someone unfit to purchase guns, and requiring adjudication for relief later. The other option is everytime someone says to a shrink they are afraid of people to commit them, or do nothing and allow crazies gun rights as you seem to suggest as fine.

                      My wife’s late husband had depression with psychosis and thought she bugged the hotwheels. His dad came and took the guns out of the home. But he never made the NCIS until committment.

                      The gun rights folks go too far, just like the gun ban folks. The middle is a good place on gun matters.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      So that would mean it would be perfectly acceptable for a doctor to forbid freedom of worship, assembly, speech, the right to vote, the right to privacy, the right to unreasonable search and seizure, the right to be free of incriminating oneself. Boy, doctors with an M.D. in the crazy world of liberals could be local, infallible dictators, except when they begin diagnosing such things as homosexuality as mental illness. Then they are just right-wing nuts with agendas!

                  • Daniel E Fall says

                    As it turns out-an unregistered, unlawful private sale occurred.

                    Imagine if they realized we sell guns at arageay alessay.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Or to narco terrorists via Fast and Furious which then kill cops and DEA agents… unregistered and unaccounted for by the mongrels screaming for gun control.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      You liberals openly sell and even give assault weapons, hicap mags and ammo to Islamist terrorists and criminals without background and flouting all your murderous gun laws.

                      Fast and Furious? “Aid to Syrian Freedom Fighters”?!

                      In other words you lost the argument. Take the tired talking points back to the DNC. You will not infringe constitutional liberty and murder innocent people any longer.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      You stand tall on feeble argument.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      The only thing feeble is a pointless liberal who loses a debate poorly and then resorts to whining and personal attack to try and save face.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      You keep reflecting on two issues that have nothing at all to do with my point about giving crazy people guns.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      They have everything to do with your point which has been answered if you could just only read the answers. Instead of KOZ talking points, learn how to read and think.

                      Here you are being cast as a hypocrite because the regime you support arms terrorists and crazy people giving them guns to infringe the liberties of innocent, law abiding people, savvy?!

                      No one except the usurper Obama regime is giving crazy people guns. As a matter of fact, what people are talking about is not being disarmed so that people you mendacious liberals give guns to won’t become their victims but be literally stopped dead in their tracks before your liberal agenda can not let a tragedy go to waste and call for the infringement of the civil rights of Americans, Americans you liberals hold accountable for the crimes of said criminals, terrorists and crazy people YOU give guns to skirting the gun laws you disarm Americans with.

                  • Tim R. Mortiss says

                    If there had been no well-organized anti-gun movement since the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (which was reasonable and which we still live under), there would be a hundred-million fewer guns in private hands in this country, especially handguns, and the NRA would still be mostly a hunting, marksmanship, and firearms safety organization.

                    Anti-gun movements in this country, and their periodic spasms of outrage, have had absolutely the opposite effect that they have intended; the examples are legion.

                    • Daniel E Fall says

                      That is like saying the anti-abortion movement is responsible for abortion. Patently false and mostly absurd. The fact is the only reasonable organized anti-gun movements don’t exist because most of the passionate folks want a ban. But you can’t escape the other fact that any time any one discusses a reasonable gun control notion; it is immediately considered a weapons ban by those blindly for the status quo.

                      I only asked for a medical doctor to require someone to adjudicate for relief if they are considered incapable of owning or being responsible for a weapon and Mr Warren acts like the doctors will now restrict your freedom of speech and your church, too, if I recall.

                      Both Lanza and Holmes had absolutely no business owning or having access to weapons. Holmes got his totally legally after seeing a campus shrink for his obsessions about killing people. Holmes is the poster child for stupid when it comes to the anti-gun control crowd.

                      As proof, the estate of Adam Lanza’s mother lost a lawsuit. The lawsuit contended she was irresponsible allowing him access to weapons. The government allows access to all kinds of wackerdoodles.

                    • Michael Warren says

                      Then there is Fast and Furious and “Aid to Syrian Freedom Fighters” where a liberal regime bypasses its gun prohibitionism to arm people who want to kill Americans. And then they do. Then said liberals use it as a pretext to infringe the liberties of Americans innocent of crimes and atrocities perpetrated against them.

                      Crazy people don’t follow laws! If the victims of said crazy people were armed, their mayhem would have ended before it started.

                      Innocent people are not guilty of the crimes of crazy people nor can our civil liberties be infringed because they do crazy things! Get your mind off the rot of MSNBC and wake up!

                      We don’t want the status quo at all. We want the Second Amendment fully restored nationwide without infringement so that people won’t be murdered any more because stupid liberal gun control disarmed them. That’s where this goes from here.

    • Fitz, If Texas ever does secede it will certainly build the wall itself to keep the “useful idiots” such as yourself out.

  12. To George Michalopulos point regarding the actions of the Missouri football team players, I really actually didn’t follow that news story so much but now kind of have the gist, come NFL draft day some of their guys might be looking at the eight or ninth round or just free agency when otherwise they might have gone somewhat higher, you know the pros don’t want ‘muckrakers’ if I have the right word for that, “Al Sharptons” in the locker room. So that message will get across and that will take care of that. I like the Sooners, maybe Stanford in the Rose Bowl or are they still thinking of getting into the top four, have to catch up on ESPN.

  13. Agree absolutely. None of the multicultural lefties can ever understand what makes freedom essential.

  14. Michael Bauman says

    Wisdom according to the World: let us fear being devout. The shooters became more devout so they killed. Devotion is the real enemy. And as everybody knows, the maniacal person who killed folks at the Planned Parenthood in Colorado was a devout
    Christian, or soon will become one.

    As my priest said in his sermon Sunday…those that kill out of devotion are devoted to Satan, the god of this world not God, the Holy Trinity, who incarnated to take on our nature and heal us.

    However, like it or not, bearing arms in defense of oneself and one’s neighbor has long been a part of the Christian response to such evil. It is a profound antinomy that deserves far more thought than the ideological jingoism of Bp Tikon or Mike Warren.

    BTW St. Menos is apparently a powerful intercessor in defending against Muslim violence.

    St. George, St Demetrios and St. Menas help us and intercede for us.

  15. James the Thickheaded says

    I’ve seen hijacked threads before… but this one takes the cake. The issue I’d suggest for the faux Left is that it is too comfortable as an elite with renewing its credibility by appearing to let its counterpart, the faux right… an interim ruling period to have a go at things. Usually this makes the faux Left look good again… and so it can keep with whatever crazy ideas it has.

    But I don’t see that having much to do with Christianity any way you look at it. Power yes, Christianity, no. Sadly, the mechanism of elections tends to make for a circumstance where newbies are in touch with the people, but those with experience generally less and less. This is reformable… but however we define “the best” – and we’ve all probably wrestled with this in our own way and could define our own “best” – the engineering dictum that “the best is the enemy of the good” is usually right.

    And whatever the problem, I don’t see how guns and doing things with them – unless it is hunting game – has anything to do with anything…. especially Christianity. The imagination that thinks the solution to our problems is to have everyone “pack” a concealed weapon has never imagined the practical outcome of a real circumstance where the victims of a mass slaying try to take things into their own hands… only to be shot by the cops at the last… ’cause that is what will happen if they succeed. Think it through… the cops arrive on the scene and there are a lot of dead and wounded… in your mind, you’re the hero that downed the bad guy, but no one else knows that. To them… you’re just the last guy standing with a gun in his hand and the first suspected “shooter” they see. If you accidentally winged someone in the process… or without the FBI Quanitco training… shot the wrong person… it won’t be pretty. This solves nothing…. and is absolute lunacy.

    To my limited reading of what little has been translated of the Fathers would suggest we GIVE our lives humbly rather than trying to be the hero in a way that would take other lives… even the shooter’s. The reason we come up with lunatic solutions is that we don’t really want to live our faith… or can’t. And frankly it is very very hard… it’s either a sword that pierces the heart or its mumbo jumbo.

    If we can’t see it by now… that giving freedom to a people who have not known it, to whom virtue and peace are a stranger… as we have tried to do unsuccessfully in Iraq and Afghanistan… won’t work without a chance for the virtues to grow. Our founding fathers spoke often of this. we have seen this over and over in our our cities. And increasingly, our abandonment of teaching virtues speaks to this as well… and explains our decay.

    Ah… but this is just the disgruntled morning grumbles of an old geezer. Forgive me.

  16. Peter A. Papoutsis says

    This is how the war is eventually won and we turn the LGBT’s victories into ashes in their mouth:

    Christian College gets Waiver against Gay Students

    Again this is a war start thinking of it and fighting it like a war. Stop complaining and start doing.


  17. Peter A. Papoutsis says

    Bishop Demetrios gets appointed to the Hate Crime Prosecution Council

    I don’t think this will help Mayor Emmanuel or Anita Alvarez. However I am simply thrilled that our Bishop is this Board. Simply Thrilled!


    • Well with his hopes to become Metropolitan now dashed, because the scandals in Chicago, he might as well seek out something to do in his free time. Very interesting and coincidental that this appointment comes now, in the wake of the Dokos trial coming soon. Hmmmmmm.

  18. Peter A. Papoutsis says

    Disgusting, but definitely an eye opener. I just love SJW. The Dems made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. Enjoy!

    Debbie Wasserman Schultz Under Fire for Comments About Young Women


    • Carl Kraeff says

      From the article: “Progressives and pro-choice activists are criticizing Democratic National Committee Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz for saying she’s seen “complacency” among young women born after the Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling,

      Could this complacency be the result of progressives and pro-choice activists murdering their progeny?

      In any case, Peter, I have been guilty of complacency myself by staying out of the firing line, especially in the discussion of your article. For one thing, you were doing just fine; just like El Rusbo, you were more than handling them with one arm tied behind your back and only a minuscule part of your brain engaged. My best wishes for a health, safe, and prosperous New Year!

      • George Michalopulos says

        An excellent point, Carl. I believe it was Woody Allen who said “Half of life is just showing up.”

        Proglibs have been in the process of exterminating themselves since 1973. An entire generation of this demographic has been self-eliminated.

      • Peter A. Papoutsis says

        Thank you Carl. Happy new year to you and your loved ones as well. Unfortunately, I fear that I am in the vast minority in Orthodoxy specifically and in Christianty in general. Both the Pope of Rome, the EP and the vast majority of their bishops and priests believe in the two covenant heresy.

        May God have mercy on us all.


      • Michael Warren says

        For what it is worth, the strength of the Bernie Sanders campaign as an anti liberal establishment, social democratic insurgency is refreshing. Although by no means ideal, he is the the most interesting candidate in decades in the American mainstream. Alas, his social and gun views divide more than unite American working people. His economic vision is long overdue.

        Jah Jah Wasserman Schultz may be done with national politics as a result.