The Fatima story is about 3 young children from Aljustrel, a village near Fatima: Lucia de Jesus (10), and her two cousins, Francisco (9), and Jacinta Marto (7).
Many believe the story begins in 1917, but it actually begins a year earlier, in the spring or early summer of 1916.
Lucia, Jacinta, and her brother Francisco were playing in the hill country of Portugal when suddenly, the children saw “a light whiter than snow in the shape of a transparent of a man, who was more brilliant than a crystal struck by the rays of the sun.”
“As he approached, we began to see his features. He was a young man of great beauty, about fourteen or fifteen years old. We were surprised and ecstatic. We did not utter a word.”
He stopped in front of the children and said, “Fear not. I am the Angel of Peace. Pray with me.” The angel prostrated himself, his forehead touching the ground. The three children instinctively imitated him, and repeated the angel’s prayer three times: “My God, I believe, I adore, I hope, and I love Thee! I ask pardon for all those who do not believe, do not adore, do not hope, and do not love Thee!”
He rose and said, “Pray thus. The Hearts of Jesus and Mary are attentive to the voice of your supplications.” Then he disappeared. The children told no one what they had seen.
The Angel returns.
The Angel returned in mid-summer. The children, after sheltering their sheep against the hot sun, were lounging in the shade of a fig tree. Lucia says: “Suddenly, we saw the angel right beside us.” And the angel admonished them: “What are you doing? Pray, pray very much! The Holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary have merciful designs concerning you. Offer prayers and sacrifices constantly to the Most High!”
Lucia asked, “How must we sacrifice?” The angel replied: “Offer God a sacrifice of anything you can as an act of reparation for the sins with which He is offended, and as a supplication for the conversion of sinners. Draw peace upon your country by doing this. I am its Angel Guardian, the Angel of Portugal. Above all, accept and endure with submission whatever suffering the Lord sends you.” The children told no one what they had seen.
The Angel returns a final time.
Then in the Fall of 1916 an angel appeared to the children for the third and last time. He found them prostrate in a rocky hollow in the hills, praying the prayer he had taught them on his first visit.
Lucia writes in her Memoirs: “An extraordinary light shown upon us. We sprang up to see what was happening, and [we] beheld the Angel. He was holding a chalice in his left hand, with the Host suspended above it, from which some drops of blood fell into the chalice. Leaving the chalice suspended in the air, the Angel knelt down beside us and made us repeat three times: “Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I adore Thee profoundly, and I offer Thee the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in all the tabernacles of the earth, in reparation for the insults, sacrileges, and indifference with which He is offended. And through the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart, and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I beg Thee for the conversion of poor sinners.’”
The angel rose and gave the Sacred Host to Lucia, which she consumed. He gave the chalice to Francisco and Jacinta, saying: “Take and drink the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, who is horribly insulted by ungrateful men. Make reparation for their crimes and console your God.”
After Communion the angel and children prostrated themselves and repeated three times the “Most Holy Trinity” prayer. The angel disappeared, but the children remained prostrate in prayer for hours afterwards. https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2016/05/13/2017-11-9-the-story-of-fatima-1916-to-may-13-1917/
On May 13, 2017, the Mother of God visited the children for the first time. There were subsequent visits, as well. This is a summary of the Fatima prophecies encapsulating the first two parts of the Secret of Fátima in Lucia’s Fourth Memoir. This Memoir had been requested by the Bishop of Leiria on October 7, 1941, and was completed by Lucia on December 8, 1941.
“You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go; to save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart, if what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and will have peace; the war (referring to WW I) is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will start (referring to WW II) during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that it is the great sign that God gives you that He is going to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, hunger, and of persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father.
To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded Russia will be converted and will have peace; if not, she (Russia) will spread her errors throughout the world, promoting wars and persecutions of the Church, the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated: finally my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, which will be converted, and peace will be granted to the world for some time. In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.”
For whatever reason, the Catholic Church has both feared and embraced these prophesies. I realize there are some who don’t believe that the Theotokos would speak to children on behalf of God, but I’m not one of them. I don’t necessarily believe in prophecies, but I believe in these children. More importantly, I think the Catholic Church believes in these children. I think the Vatican has probably withheld much in regard to what was said and what they were told is so specific and so hard to deny that they have been running scared for over a century. That’s all I’m going to say about that.
One hundred years following the prophecies of Fatima, Pope Francis visited the children’s resting place and canonized Francisco and Jacinta Marto on May 13, both of whom died as children.
But not Lucia.
Lucia purportedly passed in 2005, just prior to her 98th birthday, and was eligible for canonization 5 years later in 2015, prior to Pope Francis’ visit in 2017 canonizing her younger cousins. I often wondered if Pope Francis passed her by because she was not the real “Lucia”.
The actual Lucia looked very different from the “Lucia” who was sequestered all those years. Many have speculated that the woman lying in repose is not her. http://www.ourladyisgod.com/i-TheMurderAndReplacementOfSisterLucia.php
The best-known prophecy of Fatima, which by now is probably known around the world was this: “The moment has come for God to ask the Holy Father (Pope) to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the Consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart. By this means, He promises to save Russia.”
A third “secret” was kept in a sealed envelope in the Vatican for decades. Sr. Lucia, who had joined a convent at 18, was strictly forbidden to speak about the Third Secret to anyone. She was allowed no visitors other than close friends and relatives. After 1960, even her longtime confessor, since the 1930s, Fr. José da Silva Aparicio was forbidden to see her. The vision reported in this letter was so unsettling to the Catholic Church that no pope dared to reveal it for a long time Finally, in 2000, John Paul II officially disclosed it at a mass to beatify the Marto siblings. It spoke of a bishop dressed in white – the pope – being killed by bullets and arrows along with other bishops, priests, and various lay Catholics.
There is speculation there may have been a fourth “secret” that was dismissed by the Vatican.
Several Fatima devotees, however, are not satisfied with what the Vatican has chosen to reveal, suspecting that they may have either altered the messages or not disclosed them in their entirety.
In the summer of 1929, while residing in a convent in Tuy, Spain, Lucia had another vision. This time, the “lady” returned and asked, again, for the consecration of Russia. This apparition was followed by a visit two years later, in which Our Lord spoke to and warned Sr. Lucia about the deadly consequences to the Church hierarchy for failing to perform the requested consecration. Lucia reported these messages to her confessor, Fr. Bernardo Goncalves, urging him to find some way to persuade the Holy Father to perform the ceremony. Despite the fact that her earlier visions had now been declared “worthy of belief” by the Vatican, no action was taken to comply with the request. By 1935, Sr. Lucia had begun putting her urgings in writing, telling Fr. Goncalves, in reference to his questions, in a handwritten letter that “it would please Our Lord very much” if he insisted to his bishop that the consecration be done.
Lucia not only urged that the consecration be done, she insisted it be done exactly as specified. In 1946, she explained in an interview that the general consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart performed by Pope Pius XII in 1942 was not satisfactory, because it was not the specific consecration of Russia.
In 1952, the Pope did mention Russia in another consecration but failed to perform the ceremony in union with all the bishops of the world. Pius XII claimed he had not been informed of this requirement, which is explicitly stated in Lucia’s memoirs.
By 1957, Lucia was clearly dismayed by the Church’s continuing failure to accede to the “lady’s” request. In a meeting with Fr. Agustin Fuentes, Postulator of the Cause for Beatification of Francisco, Lucia emphasized that whole nations risked disappearing from the world and many souls were going to hell as a result of ignoring “Our Lady’s” request. This interview was published widely in English and Spanish in 1958, with the approbation of the Bishop of Fatima.” https://fatima.org/silencing-of-sister-lucia/
Catholics have struggled with the prophecies of Fatima because they are chastisements of what would happen should the Catholic Church fail to follow God’s request. According to many devotees of Fatima, if the direction from God had been followed, a period of peace would have resulted. Russia –or more accurately, the foreign agents who took it over in 1918–would have been prevented from “spreading errors;” the errors being communism.
Regardless of what we, as Orthodox believe, we can agree on one thing: that had it not been for these “errors,” the globalists would not have found the fertile ground they needed to begin thinking about the Great Reset and depopulation.
Some continue to allege that the prophecies have not been revealed in their entirety. Apparently, they are so horrible, and so undeniably true, that they convicted those at the highest level of the Catholic Church. If accurate, this would explain why the Catholic Church attempted to consecrate Russia on several occasions, without actually having to do it.
In 1917, during World War I, Pope Benedict XV made a request for peace, and finally, in May of that year, he made a direct appeal to the Blessed Mother to intercede for peace in the world.
Pope Pius XII (1942) verbally consecrated “the peoples of Russia.”
Other popes made similar attempts.
Finally, in 2013, Pope Francis consecrated “the world” to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, with the explanation that the world includes Russia.
To date, however, no ceremonial rite of papal consecration has been specifically addressed to “Russia,” nor invoked with the physical presence of the sum total of all the bishops.
The various popes who were tasked with this responsibility just couldn’t bring themselves to fulfill the request. What other conclusion can be drawn? The question is why? Why did they not want to consecrate Russia? Could it be because the Roman Catholic Church would be eclipsed by the Russian Orthodox Church?
Interestingly, Lucia always used the word consecration with regard to Russia and not conversion.
I think it’s important to understand the meaning of the word consecration; not just generally but to the Catholic Church. I also think it’s important to consider if the word consecration was a euphemism for something Lucia might have conveyed (perhaps The Third Rome), given she was literally put in solitary confinement so she could not repeat or talk to anyone about what she saw. Every attempt to visit and/or communicate with her had to be passed through the Vatican, leaving one with the distinct impression that they were worried about what she might say.
Consecration means the process of making or becoming holy; to be set apart. It is an act. The act of separating from a common to a sacred use; the act of devoting or dedicating a person or thing to the service and worship of God by certain rites or solemnities: as, the consecration of the priests among the Israelites; the consecration of the vessels used in the temple; the consecration of the elements in the eucharist; the consecration of a church.
It’s worth noting that Lucia did not use the word conversion which she used with the Angel in the context of the conversion of poor sinners. She specifically used the word consecration with respect to Russia, over and over again.
If consecration was what was communicated by Lucia, could it mean that the Catholic Church was to acknowledge that Russia was to be set aside for a holy purpose? If so, it’s not hard to understand why the Catholics would be loathed to admit it as it would unseat the Holy See in Rome and raise several uncomfortable questions about their ecclesiology.
Specifically, God asked the Holy Father (Pope) to consecrate Russia, in union with all the bishops of the world. This appears to be something much bigger than praying for the conversion of sinners. Could it have meant the bishops were to agree to acknowledge Russia was set apart by God to be used for a sacred purpose, as would be the consecration of a Church, specifically the Russian Orthodox Church? And that until the Catholic Church places the Russian Orthodox Church in her rightful place as the rightful head, there will be no peace?
It is worth noting that there has been no consecration and there has been no peace. Since the first World War, there has been a second and we may be on the precipice of a third.
Again, this raises uncomfortable questions for the Roman Church. Today, the Catholic Church avoids the word consecration, using instead the word, “conversion,” when referring to the Fatima prophecies. To convert poor Russian sinners to the Catholic faith is far different from consecrating Russia where the Russian Orthodox Church would be set aside by God for a holy purpose. Why not pray for the conversion of other countries that had a significant impact on world affairs, like Germany and China for example? They were also taken over by communists.
Could this prophecy have anything to do with the Third Rome?
Is that why Francis and Bartholomew perceive the need to unify? If they joined together, the First Rome and the New Rome would be replaced by the Third Rome, after which there would “be no more,” according to the prophets.
It’s worth noting the calamities that ensued as a result of failing to consecrate Russia, were at the hands of Russia; not Holy Russia. They were made by demonically-possessed, Western-influenced Bolsheviks, most of whom were not Russian Christians. Now, the pernicious poison of Marxism has been injected throughout the West for several decades. Not only in the political systems (i.e. socialism) but in our schools, cultural institutions, and even Christian denominations. These were the “errors of Russia.”
And because we have been infected by these toxins, we now stand at the precipice of the third world war. We are also told to expect a worldwide famine. Lack of oil and hyperinflation lurks around the corner.
Perhaps as a Church, it is time to CONSECRATE (not convert) Russia as the Third Rome, allowing the First (Pope Francis) and the New (Bartholomew) to fall away. Each see/patriarchate had a significant role in heralding in probably the worst times this planet has ever known. In my opinion, they are evil, and until they fall the world is going to be in a constant state of peril.
Mrs. M
***
I’d like to make one more point that has nothing to do with Fatima. George and I are not “advocates” or “agents” of Russia. We love this country and will fight to the death to protect her. But it is clear to us, our republic has been infiltrated by human contaminants who have a problem with the truth. That’s why George and I do what we do. Not for Russia, but for the United States. All those people you see who are “showing up” (in rallies, for convoys, giving speeches, digging for the truth) are just like us. We do it not because we hate this country, but because we love it.
We also love the Church. When the contaminants in our country infiltrate our Church, we will simply not allow it to go unnoticed. As I have said before, I don’t see the artificial lines that divide us in the Church. I am comfortable in every canonical jurisdiction in this country and in every canonical Orthodox Church in the world.
The problem is that some people (not Churches) who are in authority are not paying attention to their brother bishops or to the canons. They have been infected by the cares of the world and have ceased caring about the Church. Sometimes, altogether. Again, this isn’t an Orthodox problem; it’s a people problem.
It’s easy to blur the lines between the actions of the state and the actions of the Church; however, they are not the same.
Because I love the Russian Orthodox Church is not an indicator of the way I feel about Putin. I happen to admire Putin because I don’t have to twist myself into a pretzel to understand him. The only thing I understand about Biden is he is not who he appears to be: literally, which I think will become evident soon.
Our country is not what it appears to be either. After years of neglect, we are finally coming together to address our common needs which, not so surprisingly, follow the principles outlined in our Constitution. Unfortunately, the Constitution bears little resemblance to what we’re experiencing in our country at the moment but the truth will win out in the end.
George and I aren’t agitators: We’re Americans who love our country.
In other words, George and I are not Russian agents. We love the Ukrainian people. And we love the Russian Church and so should everyone who is Orthodox. – This does not make us agents of foreign powers.
Perhaps you all can help us set the record straight if the opportunity should present itself.
It would be much appreciated.
Mrs. M
In the 20th century, there was no place in the entire globe that Christianity was more alive than in the former Soviet Union. Tens of thousands of Orthodox Christians witnessed for Christ with their lives, following the example of Our Lord on the Cross. This push to convert and consecrate Russia is pure nonsense. What needs to be done is to publish the lives of the Holy New Martyrs, to write articles about them to make videos and let the whole world know what it’s like to be a Christian and let them consecrate their lives to Christ.
In the 20th century, there was no place in the entire globe that Christianity was more alive than in the former Soviet Union. Tens of thousands of Orthodox Christians witnessed for Christ with their lives, following the example of Our Lord on the Cross. This push to consecraeRussia is pure nonsense. What needs to be done is to publish the lives of the Holy New Martyrs, to write articles about them to make videos and let the whole world know what it’s like to be a Christian and let them consecrate their lives to Christ.
Maybe that’s why the RC was supposed to “consecrate” Russia. Because Russia was a greater witness to Christ.
Many of those lives have already been published. There’s Russia’s Catacomb Saints. The Russian Golgotha as well. And many lives have can be found online.
I don’t believe any of the Fatima incident comes from God at all. It is possible that it was simply a few children, self-deluded. It is possible they were deluded by “pious” adults.
But it is also possible that it was a demonic apparition masquerading as the Holy Mother of God. That would explain the calls for the conversion of Russia and this:
“. . . finally my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, which will be converted, and peace will be granted to the world for some time. In Portugal the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.”
“Immaculate Heart” refers to the pseudo-dogma of the Immaculate Conception which is heresy attempting to cure a heretical understanding of original sin. “The Holy Father” in this context undoubtedly refers to a pope of Rome, arch-heretics one and all without their conversion, of which there is no mention. As for the “dogma of the Faith” being preserved in Portugal, the dogma to which this refers is Roman Catholicism which is itself a heresy.
So if this had any supernatural origin, which I severely doubt, it would be a diabolical one, not from God, and the Orthodox should have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
Attempting to convert Soviet Russia OR reborn Holy Russia to Catholicism sounds like the machinations of the devil to me, designed by the devil to unleash a heresy on an Orthodox nation at its worst under Soviet domination, in the case of Soviet Russia, or a call to outright apostasy in the case of reborn Holy Russia.
Let the curse of God be on such, whether charlatans or sorcerers.
As an Orthodox Christian I firmly believe in the message of Fatima, I have been there myself and to other places where The Most Holy Mother Of God appeared.
The reason Orthodox Christians don’t believe in apparations that occured outside the Orthodox Church……………is pride, because we have the grace and the fullness of the truth that makes us allegedly more superior to other Christians. We need to change this mindset immediately because it’s unhealthy.
The Theotokos reveals herself to the poor in spirt and humble in heart……….Not the prideful!
Youssef
. . . No, we don’t believe in apparitions outside the Church that teach blatant falsehoods. Fatima is one of them.
If we do have the fullness of grace and truth then, naturally, our Church is superior to all other churches. Not we ourselves, but our Church, the one true Church.
I would argue that each Church within the greater Orthodox Church has its own saints and miracles that they believe in. The Russian Church have theirs, the Greeks have theirs, etc. They don’t particularly care what happens outside the Church which includes the RC.
It’s also true most Orthodox don’t believe in Fatima. My piece was not about what the Orthodox believe. My entire point was that THE CATHOLIC CHURCH BELIEVES IT and yet they can’t bring themselves to honor it which I’m sure our new guest would agree.
The Church does warn us not to put too much emphasis on our own miracles, that happen to us, lest we be deceived.
Yea, I’ve seen a couple of good critiques from an Orthodox perspective on Fatima. I would hardly say it’s divinely inspired. Unless you take it from the perspective of what Fr. Josiah Trenham said: It was about Russia returning to her Orthodoxy.
If Orthodox can believe in Fatima and other roman catholic Marian apparitions then we should all become roman catholic since the apparitions all promote roman catholic specific dogmas, which would imply we are in the wrong.
This woman is a traitor, she should be shunned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OhLtsDa9EU
There is much more going on behind the battlefront that is still beyond our reach, so we would all do well to be circumspect before we pontificate. I include myself here.
From the superficial treatment that she gives the war, and from her bias against Pres. Putin, it is painfully clear that Sr. Vassa is an amateur when it comes to politics. It appears that the nun is a religious academic with relatively little experience of the real world where things get down and dirty. So, as far as I can see, Sr. Vassa would do well to stay in her own lane, lest she embarrass herself and lose some of her credibility in other aspects of her ministry.
If she had any credibility at all, she blew it in her acceptance of teenage homosexuality before she was reprimanded by the hierarchy. Credibility is one thing. She has already lost that permanently. This is new. Traitors are hated among the Russians. She is moving herself from the category of quasi-Uniate flake to betrayer of Mother Russia.
She’s just a ditsy, shallow little girl.
So called Sr. Vassa hasn’t been excommunicated by the ROCOR yet? Canonical Orthodoxy really have their nut jobs. Too bad they refuse to reign them in.
Kosta, I think that excommunication would be a bit harsh for Sr. Vassa. Another slap on the hand should be sufficient, with a warning about opening her big mouth again. And, if she persists, let her go…as in cut her loose. She can go wallow with the Greeks!
Yes, Sr. Vassa seems to be, on and off, shifting around on various matters. She hasn’t shown consistency on many topics. We should all pray for her.
Yes, I agree – I enjoy listening to Sister Vassa occasionally, like I enjoy reading Rod Dreher. I find their stuff edifying at times.
Yet both Sister Vassa and Rod Dreher have the same incapacitating Achilles heel — both are internationally-known and very public Orthodox Christians who seem to have this insatiable need to be validated and affirmed by the western, secular, non-Christian society that they seem to serve.
It’s just too much at times, and honestly it’s offensive to those of us American/Western Orthodox Christians who live in the secular, post-Christian West but who take our faith seriously and who live our daily lives in that constant struggle of trying to learn how to be both Orthodox Christian and live in the post-Christian West, where God put us. During these days of rampant, incipid “cancelling” of all things Russian, it’s even harder.
Rod Dreher spends so much time essentially imploring his audience to not hate him for his love of Orthodox Christianity. No idea why he feels the need to constantly apologize for it. Sister Vassa spent so much time studying in Rome that she seems to have the same need – “please don’t dislike me for being an Orthodox Christian.” Same could be said for Patriarch Bartholomew’s groveling-style behavior before the post-Christian West.
Why do some of these internationally-known voices consistently apologize for their faith? Lead by example! “Yes, I’m Orthodox Christian… I don’t really care if that offends you, and yes, this faith is meant for you, too! God loves you and wants you to be close to Christ sacramentally through the Orthodox faith, that’s really the end of the story!” — this should be the approach.
I’ve never understood these public voices’ incessant need to grovel or to be validated by or to ingratiate themselves before those who hate or oppose us. It’s like severely unhealed codependency or a learned helplessness or something.
May Christ give us strength to live in “boldness, but without condemnation,” as we pray during the Liturgy before the Lord’s prayer.
My next question about Sr. Vassa would be, why does she spend so much time making YouTube (and other) videos—when she should be praying…like Orthodox monastics usually do? I’m not sure if this is her ‘gift’ back to the world, or what?
She is one of those perpetual “students” who live outside a monastery.
No, it’s worse, she’s a “teacher.”
I have no idea why ROCOR hasn’t dropped the ban hammer on her yet.
Basil,
My guess is that her pedigree has a lot to do with it. Her dad was the venerable ROCOR priest who labored for decades at the Nyack, N.Y., ROCOR parish. A good man, by all accounts, who loves his family, his parish, his church, his country. Her dad as priest there followed in the footsteps of the amazing Fr Seraphim Slobodskoy, who in addition to helping his parishioners build the Nyack, N.Y., parish building by hand, also wrote “The Law of God” – a text that every Orthodox Christian shown own and read regularly. I treasure it.
Fr Seraphim Slobodskoy and Sister Vassa’s dad are among those that I can only dream of being – men who were foundational building blocks in the American Orthodox Christian experience. They did so much to build up our faith in this country during the 1900s.
My guess is that The Powers That Be approach Sister Vassa with kid gloves because of who her family is. This phenomenon happens all the time, and yes it’s a delicate issue. But sometimes the elephant in the room needs to be discussed……
Perhaps they don’t take her seriously. I could understand that. If your five year old daughter watched the news and began to “have feelings” about the matter, you might just try to ignore it if she was persistent. Feelings pass.
I would have kicked her out of the sisterhood over the homosexuality thing, but I’m not sure that the male hierarchy takes her that seriously.
I’m legitimately surprised that she has not been censured yet. Between her and the monk from Mull Monastery I have to wonder why they are continually allowed to produce material.
Wow, I clicked on the link “ourladyisgod” and can only describe it as one of the wildest rides I’ve ever been on. That place is an absolutely schizophrenic cesspool of heresy and blasphemy. It’s the hermeneutic of suspicion, mixed with extreme prelest, while on acid.
Yes, it shocked me. Its masthead actually says “Our Lady is God” and, beneath it, “The Biblical Lord is Satan.” Really. I got off the site quick as I could after seeing that.
What does consecrating a country actually mean??? Do the Latins have some sort of church service for entire nations? No one has been able to explain to me what this means.
It’s kind of a riddle. I think you almost have to play charades to figure it out:
1. It’s something the RC did NOT want to do.
2. It’s something the RC could not completely ignore.
3. It’s something that involved the whole RC.
4. It’s something that elevates the Russian Orthodox Church over the RC.
5. It’s something that had to do with the threat of communism.
6. It was something so specific and so horrible the RC could not dismiss it like they do 90% of the other prophecies brought to them.
7. It had to do with elevating Russia.
8. The consequences of consecrating Russia would negatively impact the RC.
9. It had nothing to do with converting Russia, as they already served as a beacon for Orthodox Christianity.
10. It had to do with some secret kept by the RC that was SO secret they had to cloister a nun (perhaps even kill her) to keep the secret hidden.
11. It wasn’t some idle prophecy that required miracles to be proven; it was something she told the RC that she couldn’t have known but it was true.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/250674/pope-francis-to-consecrate-ukraine-and-russia-to-immaculate-heart-of-mary
Pope John Paul II consecrated Russia as per the directives from Fatima back in 1984 to the satisfaction of one of the sisters, Lucia, expressed in writing. You have to go to the end of this story to get that.
All of this is Catholic anti-Russian propaganda aimed at the “conversion” or repentance of Russia from what it is doing now which is, IMHO, nothing less than a second Triumph of Orthodoxy against the Western heretics.
We should take none of it seriously but, even if you were going to do so, the consecration has already taken place by the account of all relevant persons.
No, he didn’t, Misha. This is well worth the read and it’s short. http://unamsanctamcatholicam.com/history/79-history/225-john-paul-ii-admits-1984-consecration-invalid.html
See below:
https://www.bluearmy.com/letter-from-sister-lucia-confirmed-consecration-of-russia-was-done/
and this:
https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html
“Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished («Sim, està feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984»: «Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984»: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis.”
It is unseemly for the Orthodox to be preoccupied with such nonsense.
The problem is Sr. Lucia was not Sr. Lucia.
The Holy Mother of God wants nothing from the heretics but that they repent their heresy and be baptized into the Church. She does not want them to “consecrate” anything in their foul, unclean state of heterodoxy.
Misha, please read my comment which I just published. I tried to explain why Gail and I decided to write something about the Fatima event.
In particular, we are intrigued by three phenomena:
1. Sr Lucia said that the Virgin was concerned about Russia (which at that time was in the process of being overthrown),
2. There has been much speculation in traditionalist Catholic circles about the final disposition of Sr Lucia,
3. There has been even more speculation about whether the subsequent Popes performed the rite as requested,
and I’ll add this as a 4th: what are we to make of Archbishop Vigano’s declaration that Moscow is the Third Rome?
Now I realize from a strictly traditional Orthodox perspective, it may be unseemly to dwell upon the first three items but I for one, can’t shake the consternation I feel about what Vigano said. It’s just too discombobulating for Catholic theology if you ask me.
George,
The girls said what they said before the Bolshevik Revolution. The Provisional Government was in power for most of October, 1917. I assume that it was absorbed by them that Russia was not Catholic but that it had fallen into heresy or schism – thus the emphasis on the consecration of Russia.
Vigano is simply being disingenuous and obsequious in using the “Third Rome” appellation. RC’s do that. After all the sound and fury signifying nothing, he asserts that Putin was led into a trap and that he should relent to escape it.
But Putin is just accelerating a process he had already undertaken to sever Russia from the West. It began in earnest in 2014, following the coup d’etat in the Ukraine. He has been constructing Fortress Russia and growing closer to the Chinese ever since. Russia has long had a good relationship with India. There is no trap other than the one the West is falling into. Yet it is too late for them – it’s done.
At the end of the day, all Fatima is is three little heretics reaffirming the Roman heresy and calling for the conversion of Russia from God to the devil. Ruminate on that all you like. No one will stop you.
I’m with Misha, these are exactly the kind of fruitless controversies we should NOT be getting involved in. Read the bible and the Fathers, we are to avoid these kinds of things. I avoided them even while I was Catholic, it was so nuts there. Very sorry to see it cropping up here.
Good grief, Theo, it’s time to give it a rest.
I’m done discussing it. It’s not my website. On the whole George and Gail do an excellent job. This is a triffle.
Thanks, Misha. Did not intend to cause a firestorm.
An interesting perspective that I found compelling:
http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx
Whether it’s real or fake–and I have no inclination toward one or the other–it should be taken for granted that some element is the product of manipulation or fabrication.
But assuming it’s real, consider that the “consecration” of Russia by Rome would necessitate a sort of repentance on the part of the latter–acknowledging both schism and heresy.
On the other hand, a failure to do so would force Russia to act in a brutal way at some point–right or wrong–thereby (and by Roman design) discrediting Orthodoxy and leading the rest of the world away from Truth.
God guides, but Rome manipulates. Who else manipulates? Sure ain’t the Church, but we have been known to get entangled. Pulling ourselves out of it tends to be messy. History testifies to this. You know who else tends to get roped up in these things? Ukrainians. Biggest Polish joke ever was the Uniate “church” but all you ever hear about was the Soviet liquidation of it in 1946. Don’t think that was all staged to discredit the Church with knowledge of the ramifications it would have down the line? Somehow everyone’s forgotten what happened between 1596 and 1918.
Or, what I think it means is the Catholic Church was to concede to the Russian Orthodox Church and Rome would return to what it was, i.e. a patriarchate.
“Biggest Polish joke ever was the Uniate “church” but all you ever hear about was the Soviet liquidation of it in 1946. Don’t think that was all staged to discredit the Church with knowledge of the ramifications it would have down the line?”
I’m interested, tell me more. (Not familiar with this pocket of history.)
Briefly…
The Ruthenian (Uk/Bel/Rusyn) Catholic Church was formed initially in the late 16th century (Union of Brest-Litovsk) with other various unions taking place shortly thereafter (Union of Uzhhorod, 1646) in areas controlled by the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Habsburg Empire. It arose out of an alliance between the Ruthenian nobility who had become excessively Polonized and Latinized and a desire to convert the peasantry to Catholicism. This was fiercely rejected. Some clergy compromised. While it’s framed in Catholic sources as voluntary, evidence suggests that it was often very much a decision made under great duress and with considerable pragmatic motivations not unlike the Sergianist controversy that would later befall the Moscow church under Stalin. Anyway, make a long story short–Orthodoxy was effectively illegal, and many of the faithful didn’t even realize they were now officially Catholics on paper–still maintaining Orthodox rites and calling themselves “pravoslavny.” Ones that did realize and resist were fiercely persecuted.
Even the much loved Ukrainian Catholic Cardinal Lubomyr Husar admitted that our people were tricked by the Catholics–
https://risu.ua/en/interview-with-cardinal-lubomyr-husar_n767
Fast forward to 1946…the Stalinist government liquidated the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and “reunited” it with the Russian Orthodox Church in a way that–to me at least–mirrors the way that church was created in the first place under Polish Catholic coercion. Whatever I think about that church, though, it wasn’t a high point in our own history and, from my perspective, ensured that an organic and genuine renunciation of Unia and reconciliation with Orthodoxy would never happen. Instead, it just put more fuel into the tank of (anti-Russian) Ukrainian nationalism.
That said, there have been other forms of Ukrainian nationalism throughout history that have been very pro-Russian and pro-Orthodox (Khmelnytsky, Galician Russophile movement under Yakov Holovatsky). Unfortunately they didn’t win out.
Thank you for this, John! It certainly explains a lot.
Pope Leo XIII who reigned sometime around the 1930’s composed a prayer for the conversion of Russia that he ordered to be said at the end of the Mass. This practice continued until it was ended by Vatican II. I don’t know whether or not the prayer was inspired by the so-called Fatima secrets, but some Orthodox were a bit puzzled by it. Well they should be because in Russia, Orthodox Christians were witnessing to Christ by martyrdom. I read somewhere that there were more martyrs during the reign of communism than there were during the time of the Roman Empire.
Man proposes God disposes.
MONASTERIES OF ELDER ZOSIMA (†2002) LIBERATED BY RUSSIAN ARMY:
The monasteries founded by the beloved Elder Zosima (Sokur, †2002) in the Donetsk village of Nikolskoye were liberated by the Russian army on Sunday, on the feast of the Triumph of Orthodoxy.
300 monks, nuns, and civilians were being held hostage at the Monastery of St. Basil and the Convent of St. Nicholas by a battalion of the Ukrainian army, which had equipped firing positions on the territory of the monasteries and destroyed both the building with the cell of Elder Zosima and a storage of diesel fuel the monastery used for heating.
On March 9, the headquarters of the territorial defense of the Donetsk People’s Republic reported that the nationalist militant group Aidar was threatening to kill the clergy and monastics for refusing to take up arms against Russian soldiers.
However, on Sunday, the Russian army managed to drive out the Ukrainian soldiers who were holding the monasteries hostage, as brothers and sisters of the monasteries reported to OrthoChristian.
The Monasteries of St. Basil and St. Nicholas are a focal point in the current conflict, as they continue to follow the traditions of Elder Zosima, who was strongly in favor of Russian-Ukrainian spiritual unity.
According to Major General Igor Konashenkov of the Russian Defense Ministry, there were no casualties among the hostages and no monastery buildings were damaged during the liberation.
See: https://orthochristian.com/145145.html and https://orthochristian.com/137050.html
++ Amen, Amen, Amen ++
An important point of Catholic teaching about apparitions that not even all Catholics are aware of: Even when they are approved, they are not therefore considered REAL. They are not parts of formal Catholic teaching or considered actual appearances of the Blessed Mother. All approval means is there is nothing in them to contradict Catholic doctrine, and may be paid attention to if they increase the piety and devotion of the faithful. But no one is required to; you can ignore them all your Catholic life and be a perfectly good Catholic. I say this as a former Catholic catechist who taught about the proper approach to apparitions for years, due to much confusion and division among the Catholic faithful about them.
Given the Orthodox Church is very strict about visions and other spiritual phenomena due to their ability to mislead (far stricter than Catholics are, one of many things that attracted me to Orthodoxy), it seems odd to be paying attention to Catholic apparitions on this website. As they do in the Catholic world, they can provoke unhealthy curiosity and speculation.
We’d all do well to remember there is only one leader of the Orthodox Church, it is Jesus Christ, He IS in control, and we need to keep our eyes on Him, not on any “Rome” on earth, as tempting as it may be. And He will work out the details.
NO one is even talking about the Orthodox Church, Theo!
We are talking about the Catholic Church and their reaction to something 3 little children said that sent them into a tizzy. It has nothing to do with the validity of visions one way or the other, although the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Fathers are full of such stories.
I was reading one just the other day: https://www.orthodox.net/articles/vision-of-st-john-of-kronstadt.html
What about Revelations? What about when the Angel Gabriel approached Mary? What about the Transfiguration? What about when God appeared as a dove and a voice from heaven, said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased?” What about . . .? There are 52 instances of visions in the Bible and the Orthodox Church embraces them all.
But again, this isn’t about the Orthodox Church. This is about the Catholic Church and why they were afraid of the vision reported by these 3 children (which incidentally was accepted by 10,000 others who were there when the “lady” made the sun dance or some such thing).
I believe it’s possible that the Fatima message was that the Orthodox Church should be consecrated as the “first among equals” to all the bishops in the church and that if that had happened, it could have changed history. I suspect the Catholics believed it, too, but they refused to acquiesce and give up their power.
Now, look where they are.
Why would anything from our Gracious God be contingent on the actions of those who have walked away?
Well, it’s not. That the RC doesn’t recognize the Russian Orthodox Church (if that was indeed what this was about) it would have NO impact on the Orthodox Church! The impact (and this was in the prophecies) was completely on the Catholic Church and what would happen to her.
FYI
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2022-03/pope-francis-to-consecrate-russia-and-ukraine-to-the-immaculate.html
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I’d say that the Vatican saw Gail’s essay and decided to do something about it. 🙂
There have already been a number of consecrations of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, including by Pope John Paul II in 1984 (which apparently Sister Lucia thought satisfied the requirements of the apparition), and by Pope Francis (Oct. 13, 2013). As a former Catholic, I wouldn’t read too much into it. During my many years there they seemed more a source of division, frustration and controversy than anything else. And people continue to yammer on about it. So Pope Francis is doing it yet again, I suppose in hopes of getting everyone to quiet down again.
So does this mean that Russia and Ukraine are being joined to Rome through the sacramental rite of consecration? From the picture, it looks like some kind of voodoo ritual.
For once we agree, my friend.
Again…????
You know what they say: 5 or 6 times is the charm.
We need to clear some things about Gail’s piece on Sr Lucia, Fatima, and the “consecration” of Russia.
While Gail and I are both skeptical about the apparition of the Blessed Virgin to the three children at Fatima (since we are Orthodox), Gail’s thesis was the Catholic worldview. According to official Catholic teaching, the Fatima event was a valid vision, sent to warn the world about what lay ahead.
That said, Gail (and myself included) have often wondered why there is so much turmoil within Catholic circles about the vision, its efficacy and whether or not the Lady’s instructions were followed. (And if not, why not?)
We are also intrigued by the emphasis placed on Russia and whether it was to be “consecrated” (to her “immaculate heart”) or converted. This is huge. Why does Russia fit so prominently in the eschatological mindset and not the German Empire or the Austro-Hungarian Empire? The latter one is Catholic.
If I may go on, there have been several Catholic mystics who have expounded on Russia’s role in the end-times, how that nation is to serve as a “chastisement” for the West because of its sins. These visions, speculations, and prophecies only enhance the place of Russia within the worldview of the Catholics.
And then there’s the explicit assertion by Archbishop Vigano that Moscow “is the Third Rome.” Well folks, that’s another layer to this story that will make it harder to decipher.
So in discussing this story, Gail and I went back and forth trying to make sense of it all, realizing of course that as Orthodox Christians we can’t put too much faith in the original teaching. Then again, there was so much intrigue regarding many aspects of this story from the Catholic perspective, that it deserved some comment from an Orthodox perspective.
When the rubber hits the road, even those of us who are skeptical have to answer this question: why did Sr Lucia say that Russia must be consecrated (whatever that means)? Russia in 1917 was a decaying empire, in the grips of violent revolution and on the cusp of a bloody civil war.
Anyway, just like we can’t let Vigano’s comments go unexamined, neither can we ignore Fatima.
George, when you say, “According to official Catholic teaching, the Fatima event was a valid vision, sent to warn the world about what lay ahead,” it’s actually more nuanced than that. When the Vatican approves a vision or apparition, it is only saying there is nothing spiritually misleading in terms of faith or morals in either the apparition or in the life of the visionary. But it makes no official attempt to interpret it, and does not say “It’s real, pay attention!” Do people pay attention to them? Even Popes? Yes. And they debate, argue and easily fall into judgment of others who don’t interpret it as they do.
Fatima is my favorite apparition due to the vision of hell and the numbers of people going to hell every day, which I think is something people need to take seriously. But I take all apparitions and visions with a big grain of salt. Our faith in not in visions, but in Christ – and division as a result of these things, which I’ve seen a lot of, is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
As for prophesies, as my longtime elderly Catholic spiritual director used to tell me (memory eternal), “Well, wait and see if it comes true.” Very good advice. We shouldn’t be getting caught up in those things, but rather caught up in Christ.
Anyway, I like this blog, you guys have good things to say, which keeps me coming back. But hearing you discuss Catholic things makes me feel kind of like when I hear well-meaning Catholics try to explain Orthodox things. If you haven’t actually been Catholic, or been Orthodox, it’s hard to understand from the outside. Forgive me, and take it for what it’s worth.
No, we’ve never been Catholic. We are Orthodox. George all his life and me since 2003. We talk about all sorts of things we find interesting, realizing, of course, not everyone is going to agree. That’s OK with us. Hopefully, it will be OK with you, too.
Yes, but the point I’m trying to make is: you’re wading into waters about which you know little. I’m trying to warn you, from my own long experience as a teacher of Catholicism in the Catholic world (not to toot my horn, but I have a MA in theology and did much curriculum development for adults) that apparitions are an ongoing source of confusion and disagreement in the Catholic world, including a lot of very sketchy Catholic websites involved in controversy (like Unam Sanctum Catholicam, which you linked to above). I can understand why you guys might be interested in Marian apparitions that involve Russia, but frankly I think it’s a conversation better avoided, it has not borne good fruit in the Catholic world and I think will only cause confusion here. You know a tree by it’s fruit.
As someone who does not believe the Fatima apparition was in fact the Most Holy Theotokos, I applaud Gail’s insightful analysis. With news that Bergoglio will consecrate Russia and Ukraine (which in 1917 were both within the Russian Empire, except for extreme western, mostly Uniate areas, which were in Austria-Hungary) we can sense that something profound — and not necessarily God-sent — is at work in our world. We may indeed be approaching the End of History, but not the one foreseen by that other Francis (Fukuyama) a few years ago. https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2022-03/pope-francis-to-consecrate-russia-and-ukraine-to-the-immaculate.html
Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it!
I was still Catholic when Francis became Pope, have observed him ever since. This consecration coming from him – the second consecration of Russia he’s done, not the first – I’d say is not God-sent at all, and I wouldn’t read anything into it, except as a PR stunt by the Pope to manipulate the Catholic base. Though he may certainly have ulterior motives of a purely worldly nature. But those are not things we should fear.
As for the end of history, the Father alone knows when that will be. Wars and rumors of wars are NOT a sign it is near (nor is Fukuyama’s theorizing; Jim’s right on that). It will be at a time we do not expect; our job is to always be watching and ready. So Jesus Himself explains, the entire chapter of Matthew 24 His straight teaching on the subject.
… Then who on earth is he?
Well, he’s not the Commander and Chief! I don’t know; a bobblehead for the west, maybe?
As someone who did not vote for him (or the other main, much worse candidate), I’m afraid he is, indeed, the Commander-in-Chief.
He’s a puppet, much like Zelensky. Zelensky was hired to play the president of Ukraine in a comedy which was his training ground to learn how to act the real part and to get public approval. Igor Kolomoisky put him up to it and pulled the strings to some extent for the CIA and Foggy Bottom. However, the neo-Nazis were the spearhead of the Maidan movement that actually accomplished the coup d’etat overthrowing the democratically elected Yanukovich. Kolomoisky has already fled to Scandinavia. He knows it’s over. Now Zelensky is taking orders from the CIA and the neo-Nazis, who seem to be keeping him coked up and half drunk so his nerves don’t fail and he gives it all away, before which they would probably shoot him in the head and blame the Russians.
Ole Joe is a similar puppet. The Democrats had nobody to go up against Trump but they had to defeat him in order to protect their dominance and that of the DS. So they got Clyburn, the national black patronage guy, to put all his eggs in Biden’s basket and then everyone else was expected to salute. Through voter fraud they drug him across the finish line. But he is an empty suit. He is obviously suffering from serious dementia, probably Alzheimer’s, and can’t control his bowel movements, much less the executive branch. There is a junta behind him of the familiar characters from the Obama/Clinton orbit – Susan Rice, Jake Sullivan, Anthony Blinken, et al., who actually run things from day to day. They script him and try to keep him on a leash, but as often as not he strays off message into wonderland or, from time to time, tells the truth, which then has to be “clarified” by WH spokesmen.
It’s all a big circus – a joke. However, the nasty edge to it is that some of these fools don’t have the sense to steer us clear of a shooting war with Russia.
“…he is an empty suit.”
Scotland once had a king like that: King John (John Baliol).
Even in his own day he was known as The Toom Tabard;
ie: The Empty Coat.
For what it’s worth, here’s what I think about the message of Fatima, something I’ve thought about for years including my long time in the Catholic world: If true, it was given at a time Russia was about to embark on the atheistic communist revolution, thus it was clearly an attempt to prevent that. Part of Mary’s warning was that if Russia was not consecrated, it would spread it’s errors throughout the world.
Russia was not consecrated, at least not until it was far too late. Whether the consecrations done since then were done correctly is disputed right up to today. What is not disputed: Russia did fall into atheistic communism, this error was spread throughout the world, and still affects the world today, including right here in the good ole USA. So any discussion of consecration is moot, and has been for the past century. Better look to Christ and stay close to Him.
There was another apparition I appreciated in the Catholic world, in the 1950’s in the US. A little nun in a small cloister received messages from Mary (alleged) about the coming sexual revolution, with pleas to both young Catholics and Catholic clergy to preserve their purity and not fall for the tide of sexual sin heading our way. The message went unheeded, and the Sexual Revolution exploded in the Catholic world along with everywhere else. Very recently the US bishops declared the apparition inauthentic, though, in my opinion, for weak theological reasons, more likely due to the fact almost the entire clergy has been caught up in sexual sin. And I’m not talking about child abuse only. Much research in recent decades has shown celibacy apparently a rare thing among Catholic clergy, though most are active with adults, not children. So why would they approve an apparition which condemns themselves?
The last part of the message was that severe chastisements would come upon the US if the message was not heeded and sexual purity not preserved. It was not, and we certainly are now living through some difficult times, and may have more difficulties coming.
At any rate, I take apparitions along with all visions, prophecies etc. with a very large grain of salt, due to their ability to cause curiosity, controversy, and cause more harm than good, which I saw over and over in the Catholic world. The Orthodox spiritual tradition of not paying attention to such things is very wise in that regard. We should pay attention to Christ, pray and repent, and follow His commandments, He is our true and only Savior.
I made this comment, then ran across this by Jay Dyer. Don’t know what anyone here thinks of him, but he is Orthodox now, and I concur with his experience of apparitions in the Catholic world:
https://twitter.com/Jay_D007/status/1503884487880495106
Theo, you could get the whole world to agree with you and it would change nothing. You had your say something like 6 times. No more discussion from you on this topic. It’s time to give it a rest.
All last year, during Covid, I was privileged to help an elderly Egyptian couple from our GOA church. The last six months I was involved in home hospice care and had ample opportunity to learn more about their lived faith. Evidently, in Egypt, apparitions of the Holy Mother are not rare nor confined to a private audience, if you will. I suspect the notion of having a Vatican-like administrative apparatus approve these appearances is unnecessary because they are confirmed by a community of believers. My dear friends witnessed such an appearance. I think when our faith is nurtured with the blood of martyrs, it takes on a sinewy form unlike the faith of those of us who have not experienced harsh and bloody persecution. I don’t really understand the ramifications of the Fatima story vis a vis Russia vs. the Latin church, other than it seems to involve a call from the West for the East to do penance. I do know that the Serbs have very strong feelings about the purported appearance of the Lady of Medjugorje, a story also with a limited audience and also with a similar West vs. East point of view. Oral history in my family is that when the Latins insert themselves, it is never good for Orthodox Christians. So I pray for a strong faith and discernment during these times. Thank you Gail and George for all of your hard work.
What do the Serbs think about it? Medjugorje is not an approved apparition. The local bishops at the time said it was not of supernatural origin, then Pope Benedict (I think, maybe JPII, I forget now) gave it to a Vatican commission to be studied. They apparently concluded their work several years ago, but Pope Francis has never released the results. Though he did make a comment, Mary is not a postman delivering messages every day, and I agree. I’ve heard there is an 800 number you can call to get her daily message. So that’s one I really paid no attention to at all when in the Catholic world, though it’s massively popular with Catholics. And divisive, you really get condemned by supporters if you question it at all.
Okay, Gail. But please understand: I’ve read this blog for several years, don’t comment often as being somewhat new to the Orthodox world I don’t feel knowledgeable enough. I’m here to learn.
But I do know a thing or two about Maruan apparitions, and in speaking up am trying to help you out, so you don’t get too deep into the weeds with it. I hope you can appreciate that. My comments might not be welcome, but they are well-intended.
Theo, I’ve been doing this blog with George for years. I hate to pull rank on you, but I now own this blog and if my readers don’t enjoy one of my stories, I don’t want to be hounded over it.
I, too, know more than a thing or two about Fatima. My piece was NOT about the prophecies, although for those who didn’t know, I had to give some background.
My piece was about the Catholic Church and their schizophrenic behavior: On the one hand, believing in the stories completely, yet on another, rearing up like a horse who sees a snake in its path. There is a REASON for their odd behavior and I hope one day we’ll get to the bottom of it.
It is you, my friend, who keeps bringing it up, so again, you’ve had your say so let’s drop it. However, I do want to give you props for toning it down. It’s much appreciated. Let’s just go on from here.
https://thesaker.is/what-is-bergoglio-up-to
A great take published by The Saker. The author thinks that this ‘consecration’ (the non-consensual nature of which makes me think of Mormons baptizing the dead) is a Hail Mary pass (sorry…) by Frank to get a piece of the NWO pie in the wake of the current war.
One thing I’ve noticed since the Russian invasion (or whatever you would like to call it) is that everyone seems to have forgotten about the ills that have plagued the Church for the past few years. Even the creation of the African Exarchate. Unless I’m missing something (which is 100% possible).
The irony to me is that all of these hierarchs have been decrying the Russian invasion of Ukraine….while those same hierarchs were completely silent about Constantinople’s ecclesiastical invasion.
I’m sure Bartholomew is stoking the flames in the background, after all “never let a good crisis go to waste.” It is going to be extremely interesting to see how all of this plays out in the Orthodox world once the dust settles. Will the U.S still have a need for Bartholomew once their pet project in Ukraine has been decimated? Me thinks the answer is a resounding “no.”
I think Bartholemew heard you. I notice he’s not telling dissatisfied UOC clergy to go to the OCU but instead planning to take them in directly. I guess he doesn’t care if he attracts people who reject the OCU so long as he’s increasing his own power and financial base.
Very diabolical—and pathetic! A new ‘uniate’ movement within the realm of Constantinople.
Brothers and sisters!
Russia is in deep sin and needs national repentance. While killing the aggressors is lawful by the law that God Almighty gave us in His Holy Bible, it will not resolve the deep and centuries long problem of Russian Empire.
More than three decades ago Vladimir Rusak, a Russian priest, that time an editor of A Journal of Moscow Patriarchate, while studying the history of the church, discovered a deep sin that Russian Czar committed while establishing his own church, All-Russian Orthodox Church, that he insisted to split free from Byzantine or Greek Orthodox Church.
For spreading that stark truth V. Rusak was arrested and sent to Soviet political prison being accused of “Anti-Soviet (sic!) Agitation and Propaganda”. The author of this letter spent several years with Vladimir in prison “Perm-35” where the correspondent learned this sad news. That prison camp was located in the same Ural region as famous camp “Perm-36”. In 1988 Rusak was released with many dissidents, but his discovery never became popular in “free” Russia.
Obviously, the Soviet Communist regime took at their heart the matter of evil foundations of Russia, but at the same time preferred to conceal the sinful nature of the empire. I want to ask, did anything change in Russia now, after 30 years? No, Russia is still in sin and continues to do evil things.
People of faith know too well that sin destroys souls, lives, peoples, and states. The Russian atrocities will continue unless somebody will step up on behalf of the entire Russian nation to ask the Creator for the forgiveness of their sins in order to stop the forces of evil in the High Places. {Ephesians 6:12}
The Bible says: “… if My people who are called by My name [“Holy Russ”, a.g.] will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” {2 Chronicles 7:14; Russian – 2 Paralipomenon 7:14}
I am living in Florida, USA and do not have much influence on Russians. I hope, you can help to spread the necessary truth to all Russians, so that they will repent before God.
In the Name of Jesus,
Alex Goldovich
“Deep sin that the Russian Czar committed”? Please.
The ROC was established in the last few years of the Eastern Roman Empire, by then a rump state whose soldiers could barely leave the walls of Constantinople, while the Greeks were in the process of being suppressed by Muslims. Soon after that there was no more Roman Emperor and the EP was under the Sultan’s thumb, meaning there was de facto no authority left to split from. Of course the Church was going to attempt to rectify this and found a legitimate heir to the Roman scepter in the Russian ruling family through the line of Sophia Palaiologina.
Just because a couple of Czars famously made colossal mistakes (ex. disbanding the MP, the liturgical “reform” of 1666), that doesn’t correlate to the ROC itself being one, nor that they were somehow bad for the Church overall. What is bad for the Church is being without an Emperor as we are now.
Alex are you a member of the “tribe” here to promote the Geoffrey Pyatt/ U. S foreign policy narrative??? That won’t work here.
It is the collective west and her sins that have reached heaven and now we are feeling the wrath we deserve. Western civilization created it’s death spiral all on its very own Russia simply sped up the decline. The hypocrisy of the west and it’s hysteria is in open view and 70 percent of the world supports Russia. Russia will survive this but I can’t say the same for us
Really, America sinless? My God! We’ve recreated Babylon here on North America. Say what you will about Russia (or China, or India, or Upper Volta) but they don’t have parades in which men openly fellate each other and call it “pride”.
If you’re trying to propagandize, try and at least get the story of Fr. Vladimir Rusak correct. He lived and died as a loyal son of the Russian church: https://www.rocorstudies.org/2021/04/13/vladimir-s-rusak-historian-of-the-russian-orthodox-church-life-and-legacy/
“Brothers and sisters!”?
“In the name of Jesus”?
Probably a Protestant hack with issues vis a vis Russia and Russian Orthodoxy.
Russia’s great sin was tolerance of communism, of which it has repented. The ROC became autocephalous during the Greek apostasy after the Council of Florence. After the Greeks repented, its autocephaly was confirmed and the title of “patriarch” was given to the head of the ROC by Constantinople in the 16th century.
Constantinople and a few other sees have become schismatic by organizing or recognizing a schismatic, graceless pseudo-church, the OCU. But the fact that the ROC acknowledges this and has severed communion as a result is no sin but rather a virtue.
The text for the “consecration” service has been released, and as expected, it is not good enough for the Trad Caths. Better luck next time!
Fatimania is basically a cult used to let the Trad Caths self-soothe.
The title used for Pachimamma is used for Theotokos in “consecration”:
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2022/03/23/notes-on-the-upcoming-antipapal-faux-consecration-mashing-the-throttle-into-a-concrete-wall/
Interesting, a bit whacky, but interesting article