It appears as if Ancient Faith Ministries is beginning to lose the luster of that old gold standard they used to live by.
According to their website, AFM is still a department of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese and. . .
“. . . exists to carry out the Great Commission of Jesus Christ through accessible and excellently crafted publications and creative media that educate, edify, and evangelize, leading to a living experience of God through His Holy Orthodox Church.”
It’s hard to understand how Metropolitan Joseph could miss the fact that AFM’s mission has evolved into something else. They no longer exist to “carry out the Great Commission of Jesus Christ”.
Perhaps AFM needs to break off from the Church completely as they now cater to a different audience.
The Orthodox don’t want their families exposed to openly, gay activists or Public Orthodoxy, as neither supports the teachings of the Orthodox Church.
One cannot have two masters.
The Great Commission of Jesus Christ can only be achieved through right teaching and if what I’m hearing from Abbott Tryphon is true, he was canceled because he is perceived as being “too political”. Apparently, the left finds traditional teaching threatening.
Of course, it’s threatening! Everything about Orthodoxy threatens a false point of view! When did their feelings become more important than right teaching?
AFM should probably just announce they’ve already made the decision to go a different way. If the feedback below is indicative of what they should expect to see, I can’t imagine the other jurisdictions will be happy about it, as it negatively impacts the American Church as a whole.
The question is: Will Metropolitan Joseph and John Maddox right the ship or let it sink in all its former glory? Mrs. M
* * *
I never listened to much AFR, just in general. In recent months I’ve been listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast and have enjoyed that one. However, I do follow Br. Augustine, Fr. Dn. Ananais, Jay Dyer and the rest in the”Orthosphere.” Last night on Michael Sisco’s show, he had the whole crew on there talking about this situation.
Part of me wonders if they were overblowing it. I think “in this climate, do we really need more division in the Church?” However, if AFR is not merely interviewing but promoting or giving a real platform for liberal nuts, then that’s a problem.
The guys also said that some of their hosts/contributors have been pushing the stab. That’s also a problem. I have not kept up with Abbot Tryphon’s blog or podcast so I don’t know what he said that was so divisive. But from what some have said, it sounds like he’s been trying to sound the alarm about what’s coming. If so, that’s something we sorely need from our leaders.
In his article on OT Samson, Fr Stephen De Young says:
“….In his final ‘prayer’ he requests from God no forgiveness and
expresses no contrition. He asks only for one last burst of strength
so that he can get revenge on the Philistines for what they did to
him…..Samson can, therefore, be seen as an icon of unbelieving
Israel at their worst and their need for a king like David…..”
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/wholecounsel/2019/04/11/samson-and-the-origins-of-monasticism/
De Young is wrong. Samson is an Orthodox OT Saint, and is commemorated on the Sunday of the Forefathers. Any priest that can’t get Samson write, I’m going to distance myself from his teachings.
In the comments section of that same article someone brings up Hebrews
chapter 11, where St. Paul apparently says that Samson was a man of
God,
“And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of
Gideon, and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel
and the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked
righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of
weakness were made strong, became vallent in battle, turned to fight
the armies of aliens” (Hebrew 11:32-34)…..”
Fr Stephen’s reply and Fr Stephen Damick both replied. Here’s Fr Stephen’s reply:
” Actually, Hebrews grouped him with three other unrighteous judges. Gideon repeatedly displayed faithlessness and tried to make himself king. Barak was a coward and a failure whom God humiliated by sending a woman to do his job. Jephthah murdered, burned, and cannibalized his daughter. Interestingly, Hebrews skips the earlier, righteous judges like Othniel, Shankar, and Ehud and just mentions the latter, wicked ones. So nothing good is being said here about Samson.
Whatever the author of Hebrews might have had to say about these figures is not recorded in scripture. This means that, good, bad or indifferent, it isn’t a part of scripture’s portrayal of Samson, which is wholly negative.”
NDSZ,
I won’t say that everything the Frs. put out there is wrong. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Their podcast in Christ’s harrowing of hades is really good.
In any case, while I don’t know enough about all the judges to say if Fr. Stephen’s critique is fair, I do think he’s being presumptuous when it comes to Samson. We know what his last prayer is, but we have no idea what was going on inside his head as he was chained and blind, at the mercy of his enemies. If he can be called an “icon” of Israel, then there’s every reason to believe he repented, as Israel often did in times of tribulation.
At the end of the day, the buck stops with bishops who follow the canonical church calendar. It is a lack of rigor and extreme tolerance when it comes to heteropraxis that leaves the door open for all of this. They should circle the wagons and be done with it.
I don’t understand the response. The author of Hebrews clearly says “For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and Barak and Samson and Jephthah…” openly suggesting there is much in their lives of which he can’t write that warrants them being in the hall of faith. Since when are we Orthodox confined to just the Scriptures in sussing out the life of a saint? The liturgy is simply further confirmation that the scriptural data is not all that meets the eye when it comes to the life of Samson.
The same can be said for Rahab though with a careful exegesis of her life from the scriptures alone one can see why she was included in the hall of faith.
Michael,
You are spot on! Based upon the response to the Judges aforementioned, I wonder how they would evaluate King Manasseh? (2 Chronicles 33)
I noted in the Synaxarion at church yesterday, September 26, that Righteous Gideon the Judge of Israel was listed among the minor commemorations.
The Fathers Stephen are wrong.
They DE-platformed and Orthodox voice and they offer their platform to modernist garbage. Period. Stop overanalyzing. I have seen this exact phenomenon and this exact discussion in so many different groups and organizations over the recent years. Once the deplatforming and the purges began, people kept passive and wondering if it was “really” happening or not and ultimately fighting amongst themselves over what was happening instead of fighting the enemy, right up until their movement was already entirely assimilated into marxism and then they were all surprised “when did this happen?”. That is how marxism operates. It has always. And, unfortunately, younger people and Westerners of any age are too naive to detect it.
Ever since the repose of both Fr Tom Hopko and Kevin Allen, AFR/AFM has been pathetic, in general.
AFR at least describes itself as the foremost Orthodox journalistic outfit in the English language. Yet what is the foremost issue facing worldwide Orthodoxy these days? The fake “church” creation in Ukraine and its unwavering support by Istanbul and the GOAA. And how much time has AFR devoted to discussing this issue? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
It’s a sham, just like any other entity that is funded by the wealthy of questionable ethics and values. It may have started out as noble, but ever since AFR decided that it would never, ever, ever, ever risk offending its wealthiest donors in the GOAA/Istanbul, it’s become pathetic. It deserves to die, if this is what it is. I’ll listen to Fr Tom Hopko’s and Kevin Allen’s old podcasts on archive elsewhere.
As for the Riggles, I used to go to church with them. Often kind, though they always struck me as highly emotionally unstable and very emotionally immature. I believe they have an immediate family member who identifies as LGBTQwerty, which at least partially explains their need to project this issue onto everyone else.
Like most who struggle with same-sex attraction or who feel compelled to validate their friends/family as they “live out their LBGTQwerty” identity, it has its roots in deep emotional pain and usually childhood trauma that no one except the person affected will ever be able to fix. And that requires so much emotional pain work and childhood trauma work that it’s just plain difficult, though many do it. Many do indeed “outgrow” same-sex attraction through emotional healing to be the men and women whom God designed them to be.
The most we can do is pray for the Riggles, hope that they come to the awareness at some point that they and their family need to walk the path of emotional healing and sobriety — which is a long, hard walk that most are afraid to do (there’s usually generations of family dysfunction and emotional/sexual/physical abuse to deal with — it’s not easy; but is it worth it? Hell yeah.).
However.. absolutely not, no, no, no: Neither they nor anyone else should be given a platform to project their emotional pain and dysfunction as manifested in LGBTQwertiness onto the rest of the Orthodox world. Absolutely not. That is not OK and is a clear boundary violation. But the emotionally immature/dysfunctional don’t have or do boundaries — therein lies the problem.
Many of our Orthodox bishops in North America are also probably emotionally immature/dysfunctional, and therefore they are completely unable to set or enforce these boundaries either. It seems that Orthodox bishops must be either in the Russian or Serbian Orthodox Churches to be emotionally functional these days….
Abbot Tryphon, I loved you when I visited your Vashon Island Monastery (love the coffee that you all make too!). You don’t need AFR/AFM. This “cancelling” is almost certainly a blessing. Christ is definitely at work here.
Blessed Feast of the Nativity of the Mother of God — may Her prayers save us! We need Her!
Dear God, what judgments are being made. May He have mercy. My focus daily as an Orthodox Christian is not the ecclesiastical situation in the Ukraine, nor the inner workings of the EP and the GOA. I choose to engage the AF resources which support me to live a life in Christ in the Orthodox Church. Did you listen to the podcast with Charlotte Riggle, which you refer to above? It does not promote an agenda contrary to the teachings of the Church; in fact, it is all about “Growing the Virtue of Philoxenia in Our Families and Communities,” the title of the podcast. Your characterization of this family is troubling at best. I am at a loss for words to respond to someone publicly stating about this family: “Often kind, though they always struck me as highly emotionally unstable and very emotionally immature. I believe they have an immediate family member who identifies as LGBTQwerty, which at least partially explains their need to project this issue onto everyone else.” They “struck you as…”? Sounds like you did not actually know them, yet have a lot to say about them Please take 30 minutes and listen to the podcast.
I have to apologize to you, kkp. I held your comment up because I was on the fence about publishing an attempt to shame another reader.
I’m also not a fan of pandering. Suggesting you are somehow more pious than the rest of us because you “choose to engage AF resources” which support you “to live a life in Christ in the Orthodox Church. . .,” etc. seemed like a clear attempt to say that the rest of us aren’t.
But that’s just me. George thought it was fine.
Now that I have posted your comment, I would like to point out a few things: No one said anything about the content of Charlotte’s podcast. The complaint was not with her, but with AFM and its promotion of gay activists. The fear is that its listeners might, wrongly, associate Orthodoxy with a homosexual lifestyle, if they continue to feature gay activists, of whom Charlotte is but one.
FTS was not trying to shame this family (as you are now trying to do with FTS). He was trying to give us a more sympathetic view of Charlotte Riggle. He was also not critiquing her work which I understand is quite good.
The problem is that she is known, publicly, as a gay activist, by choice, and if people who like her podcasts were to Google her to find out what else she’s done, they’ll discover this. People might wrongly conclude AFM is a platform for gay rights and assume it’s Orthodox teaching.
Charlotte may think she’s Orthodox, but she does not accept the Church’s teaching on homosexuality. She’s an advocate for a homosexual lifestyle. You can’t be Orthodox sort of. Unless you follow the Church’s teaching (or at least try) you are NOT Orthodox.
This is not an indictment of Charlotte as a person. It’s just the truth.
The discussion has nothing to do with Charlotte’s person, her work, the way she dresses, or her choices. Because she is a public figure, however, we can talk about it but it was never our intent.
This is solely about AFM and what they’re doing (or rather not doing). Canceling a symposium here and there does not resolve the ongoing problem of featuring a number of gay advocates. AFM is NOT being “a witness of Orthodox Christianity in the English-speaking world.” How could they be when their own speakers do not ascribe the teachings of Christianity? This is about making a profit and not caring how they do it.
Someone should tell Fr. Andrew (Damick) that this issue was brought up in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and again this year and unless he addresses it, it will likely end up in court.
To me, what AFM is doing is like the advertising for “Beyond Beef” where they say on the packaging that it’s “100% beef” and then in tiny letters underneath say it’s “plant-based.” All on the same label, mind you. It’s false. It’s fraud on a fundamental level. It’s designed to make you think you’re getting something you’re not. https://www.addictedtosaving.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/beyond-meat-beef-free.jpg
Charlotte is just a product to AFM. They are selling her. When you tune into her offering, however good it is, you’re thinking you’re getting something you’re not. You are not hearing “a witness to Orthodox Christianity” if you’re out there, publicly, advocating something else.
FTS was being kind in characterizing her less like a villain and more like a regular human being with problems of her own. She’s just like the rest of us in that regard. Not you, of course, you who “focuses daily as an Orthodox Christian. . . to “engage the AF resources which support you to live a life in Christ in the Orthodox Church.” You’re obviously not broken like the rest of us.
But Charlotte doesn’t need defending. FTS’s characterization of her gives a more softened, realistic view of her as a human being. He didn’t have to, you know. He could have said anything because she’s a public figure. But he made her human.
If you look at what’s been said in a different light you might be less incensed.
This was never about Charlotte Riggle.
They put out a statement on this. Several years ago I complained directly to John Maddox in the past about Demacopolous being on Ancient Faith when he spoke in Eagle River. When I did they removed the podcast. Not sure about all the other references you make. Ancient Faith does a lot of good, and knowing several of the people I have no reason to question their Orthodoxy. Although anything to do with Public Orthodoxy in anyway shape or form, will make many start questioning it. Father Andrew tells why in the link. See what you think if you haven’t seen it already.
Here is there statement.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/asd/2021/09/19/afm-statement-regarding-abbot-tryphons-blog/
Anyone that speaks at the Eagle River Institute should be viewed with great suspicion
I’ve heard from people that this past one was a doozy
Thanks for this. I thought it was nicely worded and it, in conjunction with some newer statements from Abbot Tryphon, did soften my view of what happened.
In addition to the characters your writer above mentions, let’s not forget Angela Doll Carlson who is avowedly “pro-choice” and has pushed an attempt to mix Orthodoxy with yoga called “doxasoma.” She promoted her view on abortion loudly on Facebook during the 2016 election and beyond. There are screen captures floating around that document this clearly.
When I wrote with concern on social media about her views on abortion several years ago, I was hounded both publicly and privately by herself, Fr Andrew Damick, and some other guy from the publishing company, who approached from several angles. She and the publisher guy tried to tell me that she was simply “leaving it up to the woman” while personally “valuing life.” (Sounds like “pro-choice” to me.) Damick viciously attacked my character, using the hackneyed old “judge not” lecture etc and insinuating that I was just some kind of old gossipy nag who suffered from jealousy and anger problems.
(I expect we will all be hearing from Fr Damick again shortly and he will come for my throat again in the familiar, condescending way I am accustomed to hearing from him.)
Kinard participated in a private, confidential group I managed for conservative Christian women for some time, apparently affirming the views of the women in our group. And then she turned around within the same month and promoted leftist views in public. Is she confused and troubled, or is she a Riccardi Swartz type? Either way, I’d rather hear from Abbot Tryphon than someone with those kinds of issues.
Damick also publicly called Jay Dyer an “incel” on Twitter. This is what the priesthood has sunk to: closing churches and middle school insults.
And he (“affectionately” called one of the podfathers on his LOS group) openly dissed FrPeter Heers over his canonically correct views. Time to exit stage right from them, for some of us, anyway.
To be fair…
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2018/09/25/sexuality-and-gender-response-to-orthodoxy-in-dialogue-open-letter/?fbclid=IwAR2M3wHV8oX7xCihbD7ZKB6neXCZIP4Y5hti_fQ-jE3dg14jFWlwT3srUkY
Very confusing.
I used to like Fr Andrew Damick and learned a lot from his “Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy” podcast series back in the day.
But the emotional immaturity of an ordained clergyman calling anyone an “incel” is unbelievable. Why would a priest use that term? I remember crying in confession to my priest of blessed memory years ago due to sexual struggles that I was having as a young, single man in my early 20s. If he or anyone called me an “incel,” well that would’ve ended my faith that clergy take their role seriously.
Stories like this “incel” name calling bit and “cancelling” Abbot Tryphon show clergy like Fr Andrew Damick as completely unserious and flippant, as someone who’s still an immature 13-year-old at heart and wants to engage in performative “online owning” in order to be liked by the “cool kids.”
Sorry, not for me. Serious Orthodox Christians need better spiritual leadership – clergy and bishops who take their roles seriously.
FTS, my experience echoes your own. In communicating with AFM I was stunned at the adolescent behavior and gas-lighting that took place. It was very clear to me that defending and preserving the AFM clique and inner circle was the top priority. One look at the whole narrative of the “Ancient Faith Cinematic Universe” and “podfathers” reveals a level of maturity better suited for a John Hughes movie than the Church. The more one listens the more it comes across as adolescent.
The other thing we have to come to understand is that AFM is a business plain and simple A review of their latest tax filings posted at pro-publica reports that CEO compensation for 2018 was $101,820.
For me personally, it is hard to understand an Orthodox ministry model where bloggers and podcasters produce material for free while at the same time executives are compensated in the six figures. Are bloggers and podcasters being used? What Orthodox teaching forms the foundation for this model?
Today, there are many serious and healthy clergy who live in financial insecurity and carry out serious ministry in humility and secrecy. They are not part of the Ancient Faith Cinematic Universe. They do not have have podcasts or AFM blogs. These are the clergy who are the real heroes of Orthodoxy. These are the sober mind spiritual fathers we should turn to as Orthodox Christians while leaving the characters of Orthodox on-line ministry behind.
You guys remember when Fr Patrick Reardon commented here a few months ago and was just shocked that people would speak ill of certain AFR priests? He named several of them, as though they’re just above reproach, and I responded that, yes, most of those he said are just peddlers.
Plus, you never see the damage they do in their local congregations. How many of these celebrity priests have been to rehab?
FWIW, the problem of “incels” is something that the Church needs to bring attention to and not hurling it as a schoolyard taunt.
Hey Austin,
That’s just not true, Fr. Andrew never called Dyer an incel. On a thread, I believe on Twitter or Dyer’s FB page it’s been a few years forgive me, there were Orthodox men calling their Orthodox sisters in Christ lesbians and such because they had short hair and some other things. So I tweeted something about Orthobro incels attacking women on AFR. I myself never referenced Dyer as an incel nor did Fr. Andrew. I was referencing the men whose attitude reflected much of what we see in incel behavior. Somehow this morphed into people saying he called Dyer an incel, which never happened. It’s easy to get up in arms over this type of thing but how about we pray for one another before slinging accusations. Please pray for me.
I don’t think “incel” should ever be used by Orthodox clergy or laymen. The Church upholds celibacy as the higher angelic path, and it ought not be degraded, even if those who are celibate are in that state unwillingly. Maybe they wouldn’t be so frustrated if they were supported rather than mocked?
Clergy should instead be helping Orthodox singles to find Orthodox spouses, whether through creating suitable environments for youth to mix (here I note that Orthodox social gatherings like Parish Life Conferences have been canceled for the last two years due to the fake virus), or in working one-on-one with youth who have emotional problems that prevent their finding a spouse. Also encouraging them to discern a calling to monasticism, for that matter.
That’s hard in our “extremely online” culture, but that being the case, clergy should be helpful rather than defensive and insulting. Some say clergy should not be on social media, but I disagree, as it’s the only way young people will be reached.
Christ is LORD of all creation, including politics, government, education, economics, science, culture, and everything else.
Politics and Religion continually affect the most important areas of our lives:
(1) Politics affect our freedoms, physical safety, and livelihoods.
(2) Religion deals with our salvation, illumination, and spiritual safety.
Asking an Orthodox priest to not comment on such issues is foolishness.
It’s always worth reposting this: http://byzantine.orthodoxy.ru/2019/06/07/orthodoxys-appeal-to-the-liberal-left/
I think it should be clear where AFR stands. Unless someone dramatically puts the brakes to it, the direction will inevitably remain the same.
Agreed.
I have no fundamental disagreement with the quote from Karl Marx on the workers maintaining their weapons especially during times of repression or proto-fascist reaction. But I’m not for gun toting deacons either.
What about gun toting clergy, there is the story about one of the Russian priests who was a union organizer and the police came into the church to arrest him and he handcuffed himself to the altar and pulled out his revolver ,,,,, or saint Raphael who supposedly toted a gun in my due to the hostilities between the orthodox and marionites,,,,,
“Let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.” Luke 22:36
“I have no fundamental disagreement with the quote from Karl Marx on the workers maintaining their weapons especially during times of repression or proto-fascist reaction.”
I’m not taking any “vaccines,” to get a vaccine/health passport, in order to have basic human rights, and I don’t care what the people pushing that call themselves, or what they call their government system and ideology, or what label they try to put on me (probably fascist).
BLM leader against vaccine mandates:
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1440083566847676419/pu/vid/1280×720/e8yBAW_vQSQQGnDq.mp4?tag=12
Black Lives Matter and Maga activists team up in solidarity and are both upset about the mandatory vaccine bill NY state legislator Linda Rosenthal put in. Protesters were outside Linda’s home yelling NO FORCED VACCINE:
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1345503275613827073/pu/vid/1280×720/ScAgENP7qb7xPoIQ.mp4?tag=10
At this point, anyone against the “vaccine” mandates is an ally, and anyone for them, even if it is an alleged 8th Ecumenical Council, are trying to enslave and murder me and my family.
And they thought they were going to divide Americans over race riots! FREEDOM trumps everything in America. We’ll stand shoulder to shoulder to protect this country and what she stands for.
And this is something they’re going to hate. . . when you’ve been the enemy of someone and then come together over a common cause like this, you like one another more than if you just liked each other to begin with. Robert Cialdini told me that back in the 70s. It’s one of Cialdini’s 6 Principles of Persuasion.
What we have to understand about Covid is that it provides the constituency that Democrats need in order to remain competitive in elections – or at least they see it that way. That’s why it’s not going away under a Democrat president any more than a Republican president.
The Democrat Party is a grab bag of sometimes related, sometimes unrelated, sometimes conflicting interests. Basically, if you think of the Republican Party as the party of white males (and if only white males voted, only Republicans would be elected), then you can think of the Democrats as a collection of interest groups who see themselves as adverse to the interests of white males: feminists, LGBT, blacks, latinos, etc. Expanding that tent was the way that the Democratic Party survived. At this point, they have taken in every discernable group within society they can successfully exploit, having even made outreach to the peds. That signals they can’t go lower. Trump was gaining ground with blacks and latinos.
So they have two other operations going. One is to open the southern border. The other is to create a new constituency tailor made for the Democratic Party out of whole cloth. We shall call these unfortunate types hyperanxious (“cowards” was my first inclination). They are the constituency being created by the Covid hoax. And much of Biden’s support up til now has been predicated on Old Uncle Joe being able to deal with the virus. Covid is the new Climate Change/Green New Deal. You see, this eats into the demographic of married white women, et al., who often vote Republican.
And then he came out with the vaccine mandates – a year and a half after this whole fiasco started.
So you have to step back and ruminate on the whole scene because, absent Trump, the public would know a lot less than we do now. Trump pulled back the curtain on the Uniparty Pro Wrestling Match that is the American two party system. It is corrupt and rigged top to bottom. We can be mathematically certain of that now given what we know about the 2020 election and the way both Establishment Dems and Establishment Republicans have reacted to The Steal.
The Fix is broad and deep.
MAGA is the only honest political movement in the country and now it is being stigmatized as domestic terrorism and identified with the anti-vaxx movement. Thus the Covid hyperanxious have someone to hate now that unites them to the Democrats.
Now, you might remark, “What a sick system!”, and you’d be right on the nose. This is what a society left to the management of beta males looks like. It’s thoroughly ripe for self destruction, or revolution, or some cascading metamorphosis of uncontrollable transition to something else, the present being terminally, fatally pathetic.
Part of the problem is there’s so much willfull blindness on the part of so many laity, if the thread on this in Reddit’s Orthodox page is to be believed. Somehow they think the church can stay above the fray despite one side being explicitly opposed to Christianity. What makes this dangerous is it exposes the church to social justice infiltration and subversion. We’ve seen this before in other organizations.
Though I’ve heard of AFM by word of mouth, I can’t say I’ve ever listened to anything they’ve done, at least not knowingly. What was he doing with them to begin with? Bad company corrupts good manners.
FWIW, Abbot Tryphon took down this post fairly quickly which is pictured above. Out of respect for him, I am uncomfortable that someone took a screen grab and is floating it all over the place. Though, they may have his permission and I am not aware of that.
I am disappointed with AFM’s decision to no longer host his blog and don’t buy the response from Fr. Damick that it has been a year long back & forth between AFM & Abbot Tryphon.
Since Fr. Damick has become the Chief Content Officer it is interesting how some of his personal friends are now featured new podcasters on AFM. Nonetheless, it is a good idea to have someone keeping an eye on what’s being put out there. I wonder how he’ll handle all these other “issues”?
I have heard there were a lot of back and forth meetings. He posted that he has found another platform where he is able to speak his convictions more freely. I’m, of course, happy for him and I’m also glad this has come out (again) because AFM is continuing to stumble in this regard. It’s not about the people. They may be very nice people. But they are on the wrong side of Orthodox teaching.
He published it, however briefly. So deleting it doesn’t make it cease to exist. I think what he initially said was great regardless of the fact that he deleted it. We don’t even know why he deleted it. Just because he deleted it doesn’t mean it’s not true or valuable. There’s also no need to get permission to share something when he already publicly disclosed the information.
I noticed that things weren’t right at AFM when Sister Vassa (of Coffee with Sister Vassa fame) started to say strangely un-Orthodox things a couple of years ago. What the heck?! I’ve since stop listening to any of AFMs stuff anymore. Never liked their bookstore either. Stuff way overpriced and of average quality.
St. Vassa left AFM years ago. Whether willingly or unwillingly I don’t know. She moved to Patreon and now lives off of her supporters there, having quit her teaching job.
Excellent, Alec Haapala! Excellent!
I’m not interested in watered down AFR. I want to learn something about Orthodoxy I listen to Constantine Zalalas on St Nicodemos Hagiorite YouTube channel or either on his website St Nicodemos Publications. He clearly relates the patristic teaching. Also, the website Pantocrator.gr has many hours of sermons. I also listen to Fr Peter Heers / Orthodox Ethos.
Relatedly it has been greatly sad to see the spiritual decline Fr Andrew Damick on the internet. Through his internet success he has been totally consumed by conceit. Ten years ago he would have never made Lord of Spirits. He laughs at his own jokes and dumb pop culture references while teaching wildly speculative theology just for the sake of entertainment.
In fifty years, long after people have forgotten him and AFR, people will still be repeating the lies from that podcast. People will assume it’s just holy tradition that humans can become demons or that the early Fathers taught demons can act as a third party in sex rituals, and priests will even teach it, not knowing that it was made up by two pathetic 50 year old men who play with Star Wars toys.
As a catechumen several years ago I steered clear of AFM when I saw they allowed contributions from career women, women who wore pants and women who had short hair (without medical reason). All of these practices contradict the Bible directly and I knew it was only a matter of time before overt feminism, homosexuality and abortion would be promoted on their platform. It ALWAYS starts with rebellious women (and I say that as a woman myself).
For me, how you look is less important than what you teach.
Women who cover their heads in public are the future! There are more of them you you think. With all due respect, how you look and how you dress may indeed symbolize who you are, what you believe and where you end up going in the after-life. We know our heavenly Father may grant mercy on all who repent of having succumbed to the influences of the world, but the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. The truth is written on our hearts.
Modesty is in order, I grant you.
Did I say it was inappropriate to wear headscarves?
How one looks and dresses is important, I agree, but to disregard a woman because she wears pants and has short hair seems a bit extreme to me. That would be like writing off the piety of practically all elderly women. At a certain age, some women can’t wear anything but pants, their hair is too thin to have it longer than a few inches and they might risk a fall from a long skirt getting caught in their orthopedic shoes. (I wonder if St. John the Baptist was called out for what he wore! – I know Saint John Maximovich didn’t even wear shoes most of the time!)
I sincerely doubt the men in Jesus’ time wore those goatees many of you men like to sport with your man buns. Not criticizing any of this. Just saying Christ will not be coming back to judge our dress code. And maybe, just maybe, we shouldn’t either.
BTW, I really appreciate you using your own name. Some people can’t, which I understand, but when you can, it takes some guts to own up to what you’re saying and I appreciate that.
Gail, I had to google ‘man bun’
before I knew what you were talking about.
As for ‘dress code’, I do not possess a single pair of trousers
(or ‘pants’ in the transatlantic dialects). I wear a kilt.
In Scotland, a kilt is masculine wear.
I first wore one when I was three, at my cousin’s wedding
long before I ever wore (long) ‘pants’.
Now I wear one most of the time; ie: not in bed or bath… 🙂
I will email a pic (via George) of myself and my older brother,
thus attired, when we went to my uncle’s wedding
some sixty or so years ago… 🙂
Who wouldn’t be good with kilts?! Can’t wait for the picture!
Gail, did you get the pic?
I did! You should use it as your icon!!!! We’re you the one who was being pulled by the other? (Meant avatar.)
Christopher, modesty –in both sexes–is important. Not just at church but in the public square as well.
I take St Paul’s strictures to be age-dependent. In other words, older women don’t need long hair, when they wear pants, they do so modestly (i.e. no skin-tight jeans).
You have given something to think about when it comes to younger women’s attire. Why for example, do they try to be like men? Woman is the adornment of God’s creation, shouldn’t younger women dress to augment their femininity? With my father’s recent repose, we have gone through older photographs, especially of grandmothers and their relatives. These women, dressed in Edwardian attire were quite lovely. I’m not saying go with the whalebone corsets. That’s extreme.
I’m rambling.
George, you like skin-tight jeans. 😉 Ok, not in Church. All agreed.
How do you know they accepted donations from women who wear pants? For that matter, how did they know that these contributors wear pants?
Mrs. D said “contributions” not “donations.” She’s probably talking about the pictures attached to their work.
“When did their feelings become more important than right teaching?”
When “they,” meaning certain Orthodox circles in the late 60s/early 70s, under the influence of the secular Protestant culture, decided artificial birth control is okay, and it spread in the Orthodox world. Therein the rot set in; the rest is just the inevitable decay, with AFM the latest casualty. Permit sin, darken the mind, more sin comes in, more darkness results. That is the spiritul reality, and it affects the whole Body, not just the individual. Methinks a general examination of conscience for the entire Orthodox world is in order. Not that I’m going to hold my breath.
There is an old adage, “You can’t tell a book by its cover.” When I followed the link to the article which justifies the parting of ways of AFM and the monk, the blog headline sent warning bells to my warning system. His name is written in great big caps with an Orthodox cross tucked in. I am not sure how to explain this but a name written in great big caps sends a warning to me. What is important to this fellow? Just an observation.
Like most here, I am troubled by this Abbot Tryphon debacle, and I think AFR is deserving of a lot of criticism regarding this decision, but to be honest, I think most of their content is solidly Orthodox, and they have actually ended relationships with some of their past contributors who were taking unorthodox positions on a number of topics. So it’s not as if they are not cognizant of what they publish. Let’s not forget who they still actively host: Fr. John Whiteford, Fr. Spyridon Bailey, Fr. Steven DeYoung, Frederica Matthews-Green, Dn. Nicholas Kotar, etc. AFR is also the place where the great Fr. Josiah Trenham was made known to so many of us. I will never forget the role that AFR played in my conversion to Orthodoxy. It was simply put the most accessible and content rich Orthodox site around when I began my journey in the 2000’s. If they didn’t exist, I’m not sure what my journey would have been like. They have certainly grown larger and more successful since then, and like all of us, have made some poor decisions, but they are nowhere close to Public Orthodoxy and their ilk, and I think it’s somewhat extreme to reject them as providers and creators of beneficial content. Just my two cents.
RE: “. . .I think most of their content is solidly Orthodox.”
And we’re trying to keep it that way. It’s a contest each and every year. The bishops know about this. If they continue to do nothing, then they don’t care.
Seems this is the uphill battle we’re fighting with them i.e. church closures, Elpidophoros/EP, and now AFR…I mean, is there anything they are doing anywhere?
I would never call myself a pessimist, but, I feel myself inching closer and closer to that regarding our bishops
?
See that’s what George and I were up against, too: They were standouts at what they do.
But I heard all this in 2017, and the problem was addressed in the short term but not the long term. They kicked the can down the road. I heard the same thing (about the same people) in 2018, 2019, 2020, and now 2021.
They’re apparently fine with the direction they are going.
To the extent that AFR censors certain posts from :Fr. John Whiteford, Fr. Spyridon Bailey, Fr. Steven DeYoung, Frederica Matthews-Green, Dn. Nicholas Kotar, etc. they are not of God.
For AFR to censor sermons from my own parish (A thriving POPULAR, BIG PARISH) is utterly despicable. Good decent, holy, normal sermons! May God rebuke such errors and have mercy on the souls of such deluded men. I doubt the parish will continue with it for much longer.
Legit question: does anyone still listen to AFR anymore?
I actually asked someone that before this all even started. People like Jay Dyer (who Fr. Andrew insults) draw way more people than AFR as a whole I would almost be willing to be.
No offense to our boomers out there but I 100% see AFR as “Boomer Orthodoxy.” I don’t know anyone who has been brought to Orthodoxy in the last few years because of AFR, they’ve all been converting bc of Jay Dyer, Dave therealmedwhite, and other OrthoBro’s like that
No one wants the wishy-washy Orthodox-lite that AFR is peddling now. That’s why I haven’t listened to them in forever. Also, the same reason I don’t do anything with OCMC anymore, they’re pretty much in lock-step with GOARCH and all that
I listen to their streaming music sometimes, but even that’s getting weird. A few weeks ago, I heard something on the AFR music stream, that sounded like something you would hear in a modern Novus Ordo Roman Catholic mass. I can’t really tell you what it was because it was something I’ve never heard before, and it did not sound like any Byzantine or Slavic tone I’ve heard before. It definitely had a modern, western, 1960’s vibe to it.
I do. And I also listen to those Orthobros you mention, plus some others. AFR isn’t perfect obviously. But these instances where they have made some questionable editorial decisions are not the norm by a long shot.
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/asd/2021/09/19/afm-statement-regarding-abbot-tryphons-blog/
Just to be very clear, though: AFM is against abortion, against same-sex marriage, against violent rioting, against sexual immorality, against transgenderism, etc. …….
We absolutely do not embrace any kind of attempts to alter or compromise the Orthodox Christian faith, including its moral teachings. We oppose such attempts.
What say about contributors who put out passable Orthodoxy on the site, yet espouse homosexuality/abortion etc. on their personal sites? See Demetrios comment above. Might as well invite James Martin (RC pro-queer priest) to contribute content (long as it’s passable Orthodoxy) then ignore his famous personal ministry.
AFM is not a platform for political commentary of whatever view — left, right, center, etc. It’s also not the place to oppose candidates for political office, something that Fr. Tryphon did on his AFM blog and which we had to delete.
The left does not care about optics. Fr. Tryphon could have his own blog and they would still fabricate a reason to tie it back to AFM endorsement. It’s not a fun part of Orthodoxy but there is a social component in how we interact with the rest of the world. If you do nothing to call out the corruption (which sometimes means you publicly rebuke figures) you soon will find that Progressivism joys and achievements are our joys and achievements, and whose failures are our failures. There will come a time where you can’t fence sit anymore and you’ve done nothing to maintain the ramparts.
Deja vu: Why AFR Can’t Be Taken Seriously
Mommy Dearest?
July 22, 2019
https://www.monomakhos.com/the-game-of-on-upmanship/
See, history DOES REPEAT itself!
Doxa to Theo!
Anon 2 says
July 24, 2019 at 12:56 pm
In America and the West at least, sadly there remains a core Orthodox contingent who are still afraid of “offending” the GOA. Not sure why. But certainly hierarchs and influential clergy in many jurisdictions remain fearful of coming across as offensive to the GOA. That may explain much of the muteness. My guess is that there is a certain amount of learned helplessness at play, and some leaders in the GOA probably love the learned helplnessness that they have induced in many American Orthodox over the past few decades.
Another case in point is Ancient Faith Radio. I love much of their content and used to listen to many of their podcasts, but the fact that AFR has declared the EP’s behavior over the past year as off-limits for discussion on its media shows just how laughable it is to label AFR as a serious journalistic organization.
Kevin Allen (of blessed memory) and even Fr Tom Hopko (also of blessed memory) used to do some very good journalism for AFR where they would address tough but important issues facing the Orthodox world, but since then AFR simply doesn’t allow their shows to ask the tough questions. There are plenty of puff piece AFR shows, like “Get to know that Orthodox Christian next door to you who makes chess sets!” or stuff like that — not that these kinds of shows are bad, but simply that they are not terribly compelling. AFR flagrantly ignores the most serious jurisdictional and likely heretical issue to face our faith in centuries.
If AFR were serious, they would allow shows and serious Orthodox journalists to address the EP’s behavior over the past year and would address the drama that has been unfolding with the Ukrainian church schism over the past year. Obviously, they would present all sides and angles to the issue.
But they’re not serious or interested in doing this, in all likelihood because they are (1) afraid of offending those in the GOA and losing Greek donors, and (2) probably they know that, to any serious Orthodox Christian, the EP’s behavior over the past year has been outright scandalous and cannot hold up in any serious discussion, let alone be defended without the EP’s representative saying “I won’t answer any more questions.”
Yes, an emissary of the EP can deliver a paper at some arcane conference about how glorious the “first of the Orthodox thrones” or whatever they’re calling themselves these days is, but in a back-and-forth interview where one has to answer tough questions, the EP and his backers would get flayed alive. We all saw how terrible the GOA’s “town hall” meeting went for the GOA, and that was put on by the GOA itself!
All data points suggest that AFR is simply afraid of losing GOA money and donors. Hence, their muteness. And in my mind, hence also their reliance these days on puff pieces and on simply rebroadcasting dozens of clergy’s Sunday sermons.
Reply
• Lana Ivanova says
August 13, 2019 at 8:17 am
AFR is an ecumenical joke and should be shut down for leading Orthodox Christians astray, even without what you are speaking of.
Father Josiah Trenham quietly left AFM/AFR about a year ago.
Recently Father Stephen Andrew Damick was on the Gospel Simplicity YouTube channel. All was going along swimmingly until he decided toward the end to take a huge swipe at the Orthosphere. It threw me off but it was clear there was something personal going on. He didn’t mention any names but it was also clear he had at least Jay Dyer and Father Peter Heers in his cybergun sight.
It was pretty unprofessional. I found his constant reference to himself as a professional communicator (as opposed to the rest of the Orthosphere) as rather pretentious. I didn’t know the back story but now I am somewhat up to speed. Jay Dyer has re-released a video he did after Father Andrew went after him the first time as a result of Jay Dyer trying to contact him by phone to discuss privately why he felt the need to attack him on twitter (which includes the noted retweets by Father Andrew of his podcast host tweet namecalling Dyer an “incel”)
Whatever good they may have done in the past, AFR/AFM appears to be in bad shape. Jay Dyer lays out numerous examples and shows Father Andrew defending some of this crazy stuff.
https://youtu.be/cHiXI7E4Ui4
I listened to AFR quite a bit before and after I was received into the Orthodox Church. I have to say that the Ancient Faith Prayer book is still my favorite. I spent many hours listening to various programs, but I chose what I listened to, and in the archive there is a huge library of choices.
Then I started listening to talks by Priestmonk Kosmas (yes all 89 of them), and that kind of broke the habit.
I listen to the Daily Orthodox Scriptures, but on Castbox, the Arena, but on the PNP app, books from Audible, Kingmaker.
I haven’t listened to AFR itself for a while, but I think it serves a purpose. and am grateful for the role it played in helping me come to Orthodoxy.
I must say that I am distressed by the apparent trajectory of AFR, which I long considered to be the gold standard of American Orthodox evangelistic/outreach resources. Truth be told, I was leery about what I had been hearing over the last couple of years, hoping that it was just a speed bump along the road. I didn’t really want for us to publish this story but it got harder and harder to ignore all the downsides.
I still order incense, wicks and the occasional book every now and then from them and wish they’d return to their earlier, bolder days.
My dear elder George, I once felt similarly to you, that AFR was a good effort and an encouraging sign for the Orthodox Church in the English speaking world, I did think Mr. Kevin Allen was superb, I listened to him regularly about ten years ago. In some ways he reminded me a bit of the decency and geniality that Mother Angelica of EWTN had relating to the common man, going back 20 years ago. When either Kevin or Mother Angelica left their respective programs, the decline set in slowly but surely.
I would have to say that the root cause of both AFR and EWTN’s decline and built-in-compromise was that it’s founding jurisdictions if we could call them this, both suffered from modernism quite profusely. It is true that the New calendar does you in just as the New Mass (and New springtime, New theology) does you in for the Roman Catholics.
I think both AFR and EWTN have had too much of a congenial risk-averse mentality. Perhaps a component of the inherit expectations of the communications media (and protestant world) that they invariably become compared to. The neverending quest for keeping “ratings” and donations high enough to continue broadcasting. It’s not that we want to be sensationalistic in political talk per se, but when during certain times, it is normal to speak about such things and to do otherwise becomes oppressive, perhaps even sinful!
The faith is in and of itself, multi-faceted. All emotions for all times, all of the human experience is represented. One need not fear political controversy any more than they fear using the restroom (flush down certain politicians? hehe).
Men are sinners and they need repentence, cleansing. They need the beauty of God’s holy house and prayer, and fellowship to restore them. They need both boredom and discipline, all of the emotions of humanity are potentially necessary. To cry with joy, to cry with sadness, to cry with horror. It is all necessary at some point. If we know love and serve God, all will be revealed according to what we are ment to have. The Holy Ghost helps us along….other new more orthodox options replace the old forms that falter.
I know a very well-placed, well known and respected elder priest who’s already been there a long time. Has no respect for bishops and considers them very ignorant of their own faith, canons, etc. It’s refreshing to talk to him, he’s very bold, no tip-toeing around. He just tells it like it is. Remember, we follow Jesus, not man, and only those leaders who also truly follow Him, as evidenced not only by words, but by actions.
Petros: I meant the above as a reply to you, when you said “I would never call myself a pessimist, but, I feel myself inching closer and closer to that regarding our bishops.” Sorry, somehow got it in the wrong place. For myself, I am of necessity a total pessimist. Hate to be that way, but it’s a matter of my own spiritual protection in these kinds of times.
At the end of August, medical contributors and readers at Orthodox Reflections got very upset at the interview on AFR between Dr. Nash and Fr. John Parker. It was very one-sided and full of just general misinformation (to borrow a trendy term). The misuse of St. Innocent’s legacy in Alaska with the smallpox vaccine was just one example. Out of several concerned, one RN in the pharmaceutical industry took it upon herself to respond with one of the most researched and insightful discussions of abortion-related cell line usage, healing in Orthodoxy, and the insider workings of the pharma industry. It is here:
https://orthodoxreflections.com/answering-afr-on-covid-and-the-vaccines-with-fr-john-parker-and-dr-ryan-sampson-nash/
All of us have listened to AFR before, some more diligently than others. None of us had been prepared for the Dr. Nash interview. That threw up red flags, but we were willing to give AFR the benefit of the doubt until the Abbot Tryphon fiasco. This monk is a national treasure beloved by tens of thousands. In terms of popularity, his social media following is double that of Ancient Faith Ministries. They let him go via email. A priest of the Orthodox Church defended doing this action to us on Twitter. You do not do something like this, even if it were justified (this isn’t), via email. You pick up the phone and talk like Christian men to each other. An Abbot deserves at least a phone call. The disrespect is staggering.
We easily got the impression this is simply so much CYA. AFR wanted to get rid of the good Abbot, and hoped that it could go away quietly. It did not, and they are too inept to even recover some ground. If it were us, we would have begged Abbot Tryphon to publicly reconcile. The fact that they won’t attempt that indicates they are too far gone to be even functionally Christian, they are too inept to realize the pit they are in, or both.
It may be more sinister at the top than we even know. George and I have talked about the possibility that some of the people we hold in esteem may be subjected to extreme pressure. Met. Hierotheos Vlachos is an example. He does NOT sound like what I imagined after Crete.
Gail: truly.
Nicholas, the idea of cashiering anyone via e-mail strikes me as the height of chicken-sh!tedness. You are right: at the very least, a phone call would have been the decent thing to do.