Touching portrait of Bps. Vikentios and Evangelos
The plot thickens into a sludge that threatens to drown more than just the alleged perpetrators of some very serious crimes. Lawyers have already been hired. The same firm that sued the Catholic Church and won millions for harboring pedophiles now has the Ecumenical Patriarchate in their sights. Kalmoukos also reports that Abp. Demetrios is “very uneasy” because Vikentios implicated a GOA clergyman. Word on the street is that this involves more people than just Paisios. Vikentios’ order to leave may be an attempt to silence him before more dirt gets out. This is ugly, real ugly.
Source: The National Herald. By Theodore Kalmoukos
BOSTON — Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew sent a telegram to Bishop Vikentios of Apameia on Christmas eve instructing him to leave the United States immediately. The content of the telegram is as follows: “Bishop Vikentios of Apameia, in Brooklyn.
Reminding you of the Church’s previous instruction, we urge you to leave the United States at once.
Patriarch Bartholomew
Phanar, 12/24/2010″
Bishop Vikentios refused to comment on the telegram when The National Herald contacted him.
The former deputy abbot of the St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery in Astoria returned to the U.S. from Greece on December 6, 2010 and has been residing at his quarters located inside the St. Nektarios Church – a dependency of the monastery – in Brooklyn ever since.
According to TNH’s sources, Bishop Vikentios remains listed in the monastery’s registry of monks, and accordingly, he is still considered to be a member of the St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery from an ecclesiastical viewpoint. Legally, he remains listed as the monastery’s secretary general on all legal documents on file with the state of New York.
From a legal standpoint, no change or alteration may take place to the monastery’s status without Bishop Vikentios’ consent and participation.
As a result, bank checks bearing the signature of the acting abbot Bishop Ilia of Philomelion were returned, as the bank could not match the signature with the one on file in its records.
Following a letter sent by the First Central Saving Bank in Astoria, where the monastery does business, to Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, the legal procedure required for the changing of signatories is explained. While the bank’s manager Andreas Petrou explains that the monastery’s accounts were not frozen by the former abbot and deputy abbot, he clarifies that upon being informed that there was a change in leadership by Metropolitan Evangelos of New Jersey and receiving a check signed by acting abbot Bishop Ilia of Philomelion, it was legally bound to freeze the accounts until it receives a new corporate resolution regarding the names and positions of the new signatories. This corporate resolution will require the consent of Metropolitan Paisios, Bishop Vikentios, and the monastery’s president, Metropolitan Theoliptos of Iconium.
In his telegram, Patriarch Bartholomew makes reference to a decision of the Holy Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate on December 2, 2010, according to which it unanimously agreed to accept the resignations of the monastery’s abbot Metropolitan Paisios of Tyana and deputy abbot Bishop Vikentios, who were instructed to give up residence in the United States from hereon in.
Both Metropolitan Paisios and Bishop Vikentios were then suspended indefinitely as of Dec. 17, 2010. This canonical punishment means that they may not celebrate the divine liturgy, the sacraments, or participate in any other church service.
TNH has learned that Patriarch Bartholomew plans on revisiting the issue of the St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery and its former leadership at the next meeting of the Holy Synod on Jan. 11, 2011. This time, he appears determined to impose even the strictest of punishments, possibly even defrockment for both clergymen.
Sources have told TNH that following the reading of the report compiled by the patriarchal delegation visiting New York to investigate the matter, which was read in the synod meeting of Dec. 2, 2010 by Chief Secretary of the Synod V. Rev. Elpidoforos Lambriniadis, the patriarch did not allow it to be added to the minutes of the meeting. Instead, he took it to his office, where he studied it together with the contents of a large file containing a great deal of evidence, including signed testimonies by alleged victims and recordings regarding Metropolitan Paisios that were submitted by the delegation led by Metropolitan Nikitas of the Dardanelles.
In regards to Bishop Vikentios, Patriarch Bartholomew appears to be leaning towards charging him with disobedience and insubordination regarding his failure to comply with the synod’s instruction to reside outside the United States from now on.
Regarding the allegations of sexual abuse, TNH has learned that lawsuits have already been filed against Metropolitan Paisios, the St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery, and the Ecumenical Patriarchate. The attorneys taking on the case specialize in this area of law and have represented victims of Roman Catholic priests and bishops who were awarded tens of millions of dollars in damages.
Archbishop Demetrios of America is also reportedly very uneasy about the scandal that arose at the St. Irene Chrysovalantou Monastery, especially after Bishop Vikentios alleged in his interview with TNH that a clergyman from the Archdiocese participated in sexual activities there.
Meanwhile, Archimandrite Elpidoforos Lambriniadis, the Chief Secretary of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, has opened lines of communication with a former nun of the monastery, Christonymphi Fitzpatrick, through Facebook.
Commenting on the telegram he received from the ecumenical patriarch, Bishop Vikentios told TNH that he is the victim of a plot. Specifically, when asked to name individuals in the patriarchal entourage that he feels have wronged him, he said “the Chief Secretary of the Holy and Sacred Synod Archimandrite Elpidoforos Lambrianidis is the leading figure, followed by Metropolitan Evangelos of New Jersey, and I am waiting to see who else will join in.”
TNH’s sources in the Ecumenical Patriarchate say that Metropolitan Evangelos had inaccurately conveyed to Archimandrite Elpidoforos that the monastery’s accounts were frozen by Bishop Vikentios. Archimandrite Elpidoforos then passed on Metropolitan Evangelos’ written correspondence to Patriarch Bartholomew, who immediately telegraphed Bishop Vikentios to leave the U.S. at once.
When asked when he is planning on leaving the United States, Bishop Vikentios replied “no comment.”
Leave! And be sure to close the door behind you.
Whether Paisio is guilty of a crime or not Bishop Vikentios lowered himself to the lowest levels by going to the media EK and “confessing” the truth about Paisio. Okay so his brother all of sudden was sexually molested and only now he found out and never mentioned it to the Patriarch??? Where is the logic in that? If something this imoral occured amongst Bishops then you go straight to your supervisor & local authorities. By bypassing both and going straight to the media tells you one thing. That your objection is to tarnish one’s reputation amongst the community. In light of this
news why not contact the feds? the police? the entities that could issue a warrant for an arrest? And why not quietly with decency and self respect instead of going to media and discussing issues while sipping some coffee. Not only did he want to destroy the Abbot he also wanted to destroy the parishioners that still support him. The very same parishioners who probably respected him sometime ago. This man (NOT A BISHOP IN MY EYES) forgot the humility behind being a priest and made a jerk out of himslef. I strongly believe he knows he is screwed and wants to make a few bucks before he shaves his beard and becomes a degenarate commoner like others. I also beleive the reason he is disobeying the Patriarch’s orders and not leaving the U.S. is because he is probably involved with the losers who are trying to sue the church. God I hope I am wrong and may God put his hand in this matter A.S.A.P….
The Bible says our sin will find us out. It also tells us sin leads to death. A dead church has the character of the dead. It kills spiritual life, spiritual maturity development and spiritual character formation. A dead church has the outer form of a church and the internal state of the spiritually dead. This church will kill your spiritual life by spiritual abuse and spiritual abandonment. It will turn you into what it is by indoctrination.
The dead cannot transform to new life. Take Christ out of the center of a church as Christ’s Lordship holding ALL transparent and accountable and Satan will replace Christ as authority in the church and he will cause you to go dead. His character is death and he will turn your church into his character if you lose Christ’s authority at the center of your church. That is Gospels and NT common Christian sense.
The GOA claims to be Gods only alone right and one true truth church and like the larger EOC does too. What the GOA really is can be seen clearly if you are not dead. The dead cannot see. They are dead. That makes sense, right? It is a top down authoritarian church/state dictatorship theology church of totalism that is closed, isolated and subjective. This causes it to have a dead character of corruption, failure, irrelevancy and spiritual abuse. Those character traits are the character traits of a spiritual life killer or church killer. They are the character traits of a false idol god who turns you into who the idol is, DEAD.
The Orthodox WONDER what is going on and WHY such takes place continually among them. After the way Katinas was handled they wonder what is going on? Most all of you will believe this is a bad bishop and corrupt monk problem. Those are only symptoms pointing to the cause. The cause is the totalism theology and its resulting structure and system of absolute religious dictatorship that renders all of you religiously codependent to its religious addiction to power.
Yes, I know, most all of you do not understand the dynamics of what I speak too. There are 5 things you can research for your thinking for yourelf selves that will put it together:
1. Totalism
2. Mind control
3. Religious addiction/ religous codependency
4. Shame based church
5. Signs of a dying church or dead church
6. Spiritual abuse
7. Christian cult
8. Organization pathologies
9.
A Google search will provide you with what you need. Then by thinking for yourself without totalism thining for you the problem and its solution will be found. I just handed all of you solution. Now do the Orthodox predictable and either reject it or deny it or keep whining about your church like a bunch of little kids who can’t seem to spiritually grow up and be the Priesthood of the Believer in authority in the church. Keep giving all of your Christ given authority over to corrupt totalist leaders who dictate you into ruin and do not lead you to success. Christ is leadership in the Gospels. Who He confronted was dictatorship. Christ leads us to success by our submission to His Lordship authority. If you submit to another authority outside of His authority FIRST in the church you and your church will be made corrupt by who and what you submit too.
Dictatorship dead religion dictates you into a dead church state.
The Lordship of Christ LEADS you into transformed alive state.
The difference between dictatorship and leadership in Christianity is the difference between Christ in the Gospels and the EOC. Period.
Did any of you notice the dynamic abusing duo of 400 pounder monks? There is a direct link between food addiction and sexual addiction and like there is a direct link between sexual addiction and religous addiction to power. This is just one aspect of the corrupt organizational pathology of the GOA. There is also a definite cult aspect involved too with ephraim.
Jesus told us we can tell a tree by its fruit. He was telling us we can know truth from lie. The church of truth heals and the church of lie destroys. A dying church of self idolatry is a lie. The church of other centered Christ is truth. One harms you and the other heals you. It all starts with the basis of the theology and then it resulting structure and system that operates in the reality of the real world practically applied and clearly seen for what it is. You can tell a tree by its fruit. Jesus said so.
The GOA is over. It is a Christian cult and the only solution to its state it can provide is a corrupt cult solution. Therefore, it will remain corrupt without solution. It has reached the point of no return. Sin leads to the death of a church. The church of sin is a idolatry dead church by how it idolizes religious addiction to power. Religious addiction to power is out of control by how it exersizes control by its power. The structure and system of the EOC is designed for one purpose, top down totalism power. The more alone right all of you believe totalism theological power is the more corrupt and dying it will make your church.
The process down into a dead church is very clear:
Unrepentance to carnality to corruption to irrelevancy to insignificance to church death to oblivion.
You must repent over the right sins and in the right ways of repentance or the corruption, failure, irrelevancy and dying state of church will be your continual without solution state of church. You have to go to cause and repent and change the cause. The degree you believe you are right will be the degree of your pride to face the cause. Pride goes before a fall, says the Bible. To face the cause means humility at a level greater than your pride in the cause or you will not change the cause.
You will not face the cause with humility to change the cause. The cause is your totalism theology and its resulting structure and system of dictatorship religion gone dead. The dead don’t know they are dead. How can they? They are not alive to know. Pride kills the ability to see the truth to know; ever notice that about the proud who will not listen and who end up in destruction?
You destroy yourselves by totalism theological power and control that is nothing more the power of man in his own power. Orthodox, there is great power in totalism absolute denial. It is the power to kill your church dead by denying the cause of the dying church. Totalism leads to total denial.
Keep destroying children Orthodox and your future is mill stone church that has no solution and has only a never ending circular without solution cycle of corruption as your Gods only one true church maturity and character.
The dead cannot see the cause of their death. The dead church believes death is life. Orthodox, you do believe your dying declining church is alive, right? Prove it objectively by thinking for yourselves and without church/state theological totalism thinking for you. You can’t. Your theology and resulting church is subjectively closed by theology and resulting church structure and system.
Not a one of you can see the cause of what is causing the death of your church. It is something OTHER than the totalism theology and its resulting structure and system of absolute power and control. Jesus did not come to us a totalism church/state theology of traditions of men power and control. Yes, Orthodox, disagree, and then try to find solution by the theology solution applied that is the problem. That is circular without solution church failed by its solution that causes the church to go dead by the cause of the death. There is a cause to EOC death. Face it and it find new life or deny it and die.
You have less than a generation to turn it all around or oblivion in America is your Gods only one true church come to us as our only true salvation failed. You are in freedom FROM church and state religion COMPETION now and that means your totalism by church and state power and control religion is gone and you cannot by your power control outcomes. The outcome is the outcome in the rational objective reality of the real world where Christ is true salvation that is true solution. The cause of the state of your church results in a logical outcome.
The outcome is revealing who is truly in power and control in your church. Can you think for yourself without totalism thinking for you and quess his name??? No, its not the Patriarch. The Patriarch works for him. Here is a clue, he loves to kill the spiritual life of children and warp their view of God by sexually abusing them and then covering it all up. He loves to destroy the salvation of children by self centered spiritual abuse and abandonment. He is a liar, theif and murderer who destroys children and turns churches into spiritual death camps by destroying them with corruption that he deceives all in those churches into enabling to their own self destruction. They always WONDER what is going on and they never seem to figure it out and that is exactly how he wants it. In the end he tells them what is going on and it is not him going on and they believe him when he tells them it something else going on.
Orthodox, do you know his name, let alone, what is going on?
Blessings in the new year,
Ashley Nevins
John,
I will shorten the posts and keep it to one or two points.
The addiction pathology in the church structure and system is serious and it has a causation. The source of the organizational pathology causation will be more difficult for the Orthodox to admit than the logical outcomes of the pathology seen in the reality of the real world. There is a direct link between food addiction and sex addiction and like there is a direct link between sex addiction and religious addiction to power.
The Orthodox must start looking at CAUSE and its EFFECT. The cause is not a few dysfunctional leaders. Those are symptoms (effect) pointing to the cause. The issue is the theology that creates a totalism structure and system of religious dictatorship. The whole structure and system is the problem and not the leadership. The leadership stand on the foundation of the theology as the authority of the theology in the structure and system of the church. The theology designs and operates the structure and system.
This has been going on for too long for it not to be this and the width and depth of the problem tells you that the problem is deeper than the hierarchies.
Yes, I know, some of you find the words ‘dictatorship’ and ‘totalism’ offensive and you disagree. The time to be less than objective and honest about the cause has long past. There are no other terms that can be used to discribe the problem cause and its effect. The horrific logical outcomes of the theology are all around you and yet the Orthodox deny them by denying their cause. You can identify the symptom, but if you do not take it back to cause the symptom identification is all but worthless in solving the problem.
The question you all need to be asking yourselves is simple….Why is your church found in a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state without solution? That question recognizes the symptoms, but it asks YOU to go to cause. The Orthodox want to stay on symptom as the cause and they fail for it.
The bottom line is simple here. The Orthodox church organizational structure and system is designed for one purpose, top down totalism authoritarian power and control. That totalism has a cause and a logical outcome effect. The logical end result is a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying church that has no solution. That is the difficult truth the Orthodox do not take back to cause and they fail for it.
Gods only alone right and one true truth church cannot find solution by being alone right and true truth and I know why. I ask all of you to find out why by going to causation. In the Orthodox Mind the cause is anything OTHER than what I point too as the cause. The cause is the Orthodox Mind that is developed from the cause and that is why that mind denies the cause. The cause will not let you see it is the cause because the cause is the foundation of the structure and system. Totalism theology totally does not want you to go to cause or totalism authority could potentially be threatened. That is mind control caused by religious codependency upon religious addiction to power.
Yes, I know it is very difficult to hear it told you in terms that do not compromise the problem. There is no Orthodox correct or polite way of telling you the truth of the truth of this. It is more difficult for an Orthodox to look at the cause than it is the victims of this latest sex scandal in NY. Those victims are a symptom pointing to the cause and the cause is not the abusers entirely. The abusers are a symptom pointing to the cause. The cause goes deeper than the symptoms and that is why there is no solution found by the Orthodox who only really deal in symptoms that they do not take back to cause.
The interesting thing about totalism denial is how it totally denies itself as the cause and then all under that totalism power and control believe that anything other than the totalism theology is the cause. If totalism is your mind then total denial of totalism being the cause is your mind about the problem that has no solution by your Orthodox Minds. That is a serious problem not recognized as a serious problem by the Orthodox because the Orthodox cannot recognize it as a serious problem by their not going to the cause of the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying church that has no solution by itself as the solution applied.
Orthodox, the solution is outside of totalism and totalism will not allow you to see it by how it subtly and unknowingly to all of you controls your minds not to see the source of the problem at its point of causation. Totalism thinks for you and it will not allow you to think for yourselves to solution. Totalism has to be the solution or totalism will lose total power and control over all of you. That is CIRCULAR without solution church by the failure solution cause applied to the problem and when the solution applied is the problem. You cannot really understand or see the truth of this if totalism is your mind set as the solution and it is. In totalism there is only one solution to all problems and it is totalism.
CIRCULAR without solution is the logical end result of totalism theological power and control that is nothing more than man in his own power in total control and as he stands on a foundation of theology that is totalism power and control. That leads to a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church that has no solution because totalism man and his totalism theology are the solution to the problem and the problem is the cause of the problem applied as the solution to the problem.
Circular is the Orthodox logical end result of totalism theology that has no solution by it being the solution to itself. Christ confronted a cult of totalism and dead traditions of men. Do you find that offensive that He did and that He did not mince words with them? They found Him offensive in His graphic and no compromise confrontation. He was HIGHLY sarcastic with them.
Jesus in the Gospels did not come to us a top down authoritarian theology of totalism church and state dictatorship power and control. He did not come to us as totalism mind control that thinks only inside a closed, isolated and subjective box of we alone are right. Christ by humility is totally out of the the totalism box. You cannot put God into a box, Orthodox. You cannot control God by your top down totalism power and control structure and system or you will make yourselves God and fail. He did not come to own us by making us slaves to totalism theological power and control that is slavery. The Orthodox can disagree and they do by their theology and resulting structure and system of church failure.
Christ in the Gospels is not circular without solution nor is He seen in a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state. He confronted a Sanhedrin of totalism power and control and that claimed to be Gods only true salvation by its totalism power and control and by traditions of men legalisms and works and religious performance to salvation. Orthodox, that is the failure Christ contronted. He confronted a totalism religious dictatorship whose design and structure of organization was top down power and control. It was corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying without solution. They denied the solution outside of them and they paid serious consequences for that. God bypassed them and left them to their corrupt selves and they died. God let them be their own solution without Him as solution.
The humility of Christ that is a bottom up and open system confronted the pride of a totalism top down and closed system. Christ came as least expected. He came bottom up and open system and as the direct dyametric opposite to what He confronted to show us the clear difference.
Orthodox, this is not against you. It is for you. It’s candid frankness sounds like it is anti Orthodox or something close to that. It is merely a confrontation that does not mince words in the face of dozens of victims of this most recent abuse in NY. The truth of why they were abused is worse than the abuse they received because in affect all of you are spiritually abused and spiritually abandoned by totalism theology too. Entire jurisdictions are under this abusive and mind controlling theology that leads you to corruption that has no solution making you all VICTIMS of it. How that victimization of the laity works itself out in the practical reality of the real Christian world is another subject that I will not discuss here today.
Orthodox, think for yourselves to cause to find solution to the cause or continue to die.
I know, asking some of you to do that is found offensive by you. That is not solution. It is the problem I speak into from the outside. You take offense of the state of your church being pointed out and yet you do not stop the offenses of abuse against childern made in the image of God. The GOA learned nothing after Katinas. That is telling to me what your true priorities are. They are totalism power and control over all and no matter who it destroys. Orthodox, it is destroying YOU and you deny that it is.
The same cause of the NY monastery sex abuse is the same cause of the spiritual abuse that is destroying your church by totalism theology and that is always found alone right and Gods truth and therefore not the cause. The more alone right you believe you are the more God will reveal how wrong you are. He will let you remain in a irrelavent and dying survival existence state by your own power as your relevancy and solution. Deny the cause and you will deny its solution and die.
This is a very good website with the potential to find solution if the solution is not denied by total denial by totalism. I take about as much pleasure in telling you this as I do looking at the most recent abuse victims in NY. I hope none of you deny the cause of that abuse of children or mill stones will be the future of your church. That is a systemic problem that has a theological causation and it has no solution by the theology applied to the problem and because the theology is the systemic problem.
BTW, I believe the GOA is far more corrupt than the OCA ever was and the OCA is repeating its failure by the circular solution applied. You can see it taking place right before your Orthodox eyes that deny. Jonah told the crowd at his enthronement that he has ‘the most profound repect’ for the bishops on stage with him and that profound repect for corruption is revealing itself. The OCA like all Orthodox jurisdictions is circular without solution by the solution applied.
The Orthodox have no solution and therefore no way of escape. Christ in the Gospels came to us as our way of escape from such totalism theological corruption that destroys. He is the solution that is outside of you and that you deny by believing your church is the Christ of salvation and yet its salvation cannot provide solution to its failed state. Totalism as salvation is circular without solution by the salvation it applies as solution to the totalism problem that has no solution for it being the failed salavation applied. In other words, the EOC has a serious unsolvable problem that is killing it for itself being the serious unsolvable problem that is its solution and that does not provide solution.
Humble Christ salvation is the solution to proud totalism as the Orthodox salvation failure. Pride as a salvation solution will not work. True salvation in humble Jesus will work. The solution is outside of your structure and system of church and it is your only salvation to its corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state. Pride as salvation that fails will disagree. Pride as salvation will always reject humility as salvation and that is why pride will fail as salvation and then cause the failure of a church that then denies why it fails by its failed power and control salvation that is denial of true humble salvation.
Telling.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, that’s short?
As near as I can figure: 1. You don’t like hierarchical church organization because its of the devil
2. All Orthodox are under the sway of the devil because our theology is of the devil
Well, lets see, last time I checked a lot of Protestant clergy had sex abuse issues, corruption issues, veracity issues. That only proves that the devil attacks all of us and tends to find our weakest point.
Of course, you are ignoring the fact that all Christian theology has the Orthodox Church as its point of orgin. Frankly, as bad as we are, it is due to the fact that we are ignoring our theology, not following it.
I’d go on, but I really do want to keep my comments short. My poor brain starts burbbling after about 250 words or so.
Michael,
I believe the evil one is in rule behind the scenes pulling all the Orthodox puppet strings to insure your continual failure. The evil one shares something in common with your church leadership and church theology. He is totalism power and control and he is a dictatorship of death that leads to the death of a church. It takes two to tango, baby. The sick bondage enmeshment of religious codependency and religious addiction to power is the dance. That is the death dance of a dying church without solution.
Once his spiritual bondage takes holds only spiritual violence can throw him out and since none of you are into throwing out corruption he gets his way with your church and it fails. Your structure that creates your system is how he systemically causes your systemic failure by the enabling help of your totalism structure that creates the system that systemically fails. Satan just LOVES totalism. It is who he is and that makes his deception ever more harder for those under totalism to see him for how it hides him by his ability to blend right into the totalism and no one takes notice, but you sure can see the outcome of his rule. His finger prints are all over the EOC failure.
He has turned your church into the dictator who wears no cloths.
I believe he is the Pied Piper leading all of your right over the cliff into irrelevancy and insignificance. His unseen unspiritual dictatorship rule is pulling the puppet strings of Orthodox hierarchy dead religion rule. Like Met Jonah he has the most profound respect for the corrupt.
The Lordship of Jesus Christ in rule over a church is not a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying church without solution, but Satan in rule is.
I hope this clears that all up.
Next.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, much of what you say is thought-provoking. As a life-long Orthodox, all I can say is that thanks to the tribalism unleashed on this land by the Bolsheviks, it would appear that we are indeed the “withered branch” of Christianity. Failure certainly abounds. This however does not negate the fact that we are the Church of Christ, having an episcopate in an unbroken tradition going back tot he time of the time of the Apostles.
I have been very chary of taking on the Evangelicals mainly because I live in the Bible Belt and see the good that they do. Within a five mile radius of my house are least six mega-churches and one or two more under construction. And only one Orthodox parish (former ROCOR). So I see your point about planting one Evangelical church and one Orthodox church in a hypothetical city with no churches at all. The Evangelicals would win hands-down.
Now for the criticism: all of these Evangelical churches are essentially based on cults of personality. When the senior pastor dies, it invariably founders. Plus, they are revolving doors. You simply don’t see the same people year in and year out. Doctrine is mutable and based on what the senior pastor says it is. Etc. None of what I describe is intellectually consistent. There is no integrity.
As much as I disdain the antics of the various Orthodox jurisdictions, the fact remains that the worst problem we have is administration, not heresy. As for the monasticism, there are abuses no doubt, but monasticism is a vital and legitimate expression of Christianity. You would do well to stand in the shadow of a St Seraphim of Sarov or Nektarios of Aegina on the Day of Judgment. Your witness is invaluable but I warn you: be careful of your mockery of some of these spiritual athletes.
George,
This is an excellent website. It is the best Orthodox expose’ site I have seen yet.
Your response does not take symptoms back to cause to then find solution to the cause.
I believe the EOC is going to have to crash and burn like really hard before they believe the cause is the cause, but then I know how the cause is the Orthodox theology and so nothing is going to change. In other words, the dying decline will not stop.
Seraphim and Nektarios question my salvation like all of you who believe your church is Gods only one true and alone right salvation. I question the salvation of your church to bring you solution. So, I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree on who and what mocks who and what.
I know exactly how the Orthodox MOCK the relevant to our generation and understand how the Orthodox mocking of God has back fired upon them in their failed state that mocks them. God has turned what mocks Him into a mockery of itself. The width and depth of the EOC failure is awesome to behold for its size of total systemic failure by theology. Truly, it is astounding. The scale of it is massive by systemic failure!
George, all of you are sincere in your faith. Your faith is not the question to me. I fully understand your Gods only alone right and one true church mind set. The question is, why can’t your church find solution to its corrupt, failed, irrelevant dying state by its salvation? If your church is the truest of all churches then it logically follows that it would be the most safe, healthy and relevant church on the planet and not one jurisdiction is found in a safe, healthy or relevant state. It would follow that it is not without solution by it Gods only one true salvation.
This is not about church perfection of being alone right. It is about Christ centered relevancy that leads to solution and about how a church really can be who Christ is in the Gospels. A church that fails FORWARD to success is a relevant church. Notice how I say it fails forward? I do not see you failing forward to success as a church. I see you dying by failure falling backwards to oblivion.
Oh, yes, you will continue to exist. But, what will you continue to exist as is the larger question not a one of you is answering. A church can reach a point of no return by always returning to what causes its failure. Satan wants you corrupt without solution so that your church will return to a failure solution. All of you can disagree and deny this spiritual warfare truth, but that does not keep you from returning to what fails you over and over and over again. My best proof is the EOC failure that is only getting worse in its failure. The cause of the failure is obvious except to those involved in the failure. That is very concerning regarding the future of your church.
The concern is in your face confrontational, but the concern is real concern no matter what the Orthodox reaction. Your church is in a failed state and it has no solution and to believe that it does have solution is as delusional as the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of the EOC. Churches in this state are delusional about themselves. They say things like the DOA Archbishop did a few years back where he told the faithful in public that the DOA had grown by ONE MILLION in the previous ten years. That would make the average parish size about 2,400 each.
The reality is that the GOA is DOA. Period.
No church can compete with the Greeks on grandiosity of self righteousness. NONE. I call it the Twilight Zone church for its delusions of visionary hierarchy grandure. It is corrupt from the center out and when that onion is pealed it is going to reek like a backed up toilet at an overflowing sewer farm. It is going to make PTL look like little kids playing with tinker toys.
The dynamic leader Greek Archbishop of the DOA is not the only hierarch who is in a Orthodox delusional state about the EOC. All the bishops are or the church would not be found delusionally failed by denying the cause of the failure. I read all the info. on the recent bishop meeting where they decided to define you as mission after TWO HUNDRED YEARS here. They define all of you and the Christ, the Gospels and the NT don’t. Didn’t Jesus define us as mission everywhere we are found? Maybe I read that wrong in the Gospels and need to see it the Orthodox way by following their role model and example?
I just loved how all the bishops praised the DOA Archbishop for his leadership of that bishop conference. He is the great leader after Spyridon who has lead them to this healing church relevancy state with one million new members under his leadership. Conciliar unity of totalism theological dictatorship was clearly seen among them at that conference and all the Orthodox watched and waited with great hope in their hearts. I believe they are going to meet like 12 more times to get this all worked out for all of you??? Good luck, because luck is all you got in that one.
They define all of you and they define your future by who they all really are in the failure of the Orthodox in America in the PRESENT. That definition is about to hit the fan real hard in NY and it is going to splatter that definition over the entire DOA. This goes much, much, much deeper than a failed leader in a otherwise good church. That happens all the time and is to be expected in spiritual warfare reality church. The DOA is not a good church. It is corrupt from its core out. A failed man is not what is driving the total systemic failure of any Orthodox jurisdiction. The theology is.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, you lost me after the first paragraph. The EOC is never going to “crash and burn,” otherwise this would mean that our Lord and Savior was either lying or deluded. He said that the “gates of hell would not prevail against the church.” I can’t ontologically bring myself to believe that without descending into nihilism/atheism.
Yes, we got problems. Much of what you observe is true. Most of it is from the devil (or our own pride, the source of all sin). And I truly feel your pain. But the Church (if it is indeed The Church) will survive until her Bridegroom comes to reclaim her.
Historical fact: we’ve been here 2,000 years. If we’re not The Church, we’ve been doing an awful good imitation of it.
Allow me to consolidate the position:
1. Theological totalism church/state power and control that is closed, isolated and subjective is the problem.
2. The problem results in a state of church that is self centered, self protective and self sufficient.
3. The self centered, self protective and self sufficient church abuses to stay in power and control.
4. Such a church cannot find solution because the solution applied is the problem itself leading the church to become circular without solution by the solution applied.
5. The logical end result of this is a dead church without solution to the cause of its dying state.
Totalism theology will totally deny that it is the causation of the problem and that only keeps the problem circular without solution. It will deny the cause of its failure by the very thing that fails it. Anything other than the problem will be identified as the problem leaving you all circular without solution and set up for the next round of corruptions that do not have solution.
The Orthodox from their position can all disgree from the cause of their failure they are all in denial of and because the cause of the failure is, Orthodoxy = God and God = Orthodoxy. That is self idolatry that is totalism and it is grounded in the foundation of a totalism theology that is a dictatorship of dead religion found in a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state that it denies. You can’t see what happened to the ROC circa 1917 and the GOA circa today? The cause of their failures have the same theological foundation that causes the failure. It is systemic failure by the dictatorship theology that systemically by its power and control renders you all powerless to its control.
The Orthodox believe that their church is Gods only alone right and one true truth church and therefore it is the only true salvation from God. That is totalism that is the set up for your failure and it leads to self righteous pride that refuses to see its cause of failure. You see all of this played out in the Gospels as our warning to not become remotely like what Jesus confronted.
Those Christ confronted too believed they had the right theology, the right worship, the right belief, the right fathers, the right history, the right tradtions and the right salvation. They were self idolatry by being Gods alone right and one true salvation. They were nothing more than a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying traditions of men authoritiarian rule where man and not God are the authority at the center causing all to go corrupt. They too refused to listen to the cause of their failure and they also rejected the solution for themselves being the solution. If you cannot see the direct connection to your church failure you will continue to fail. I promise.
Christ came as least expected. He came opposite to what He confronted so the clear distinction could be made. He did not come to us a top down church/state theology of totalism no matter how the Orthodox try to justify their structure and system of totalism church.
Christ came to us at our top down ruled over and rule abused and rule abandoned bottom by being humility structure and system that is OPEN. He came bottom up and open system. He did not come to us as a closed by top down system of totalism religious dictatorship. That would only eventually have lead to a totalism failure like the one He confronted and as you clearly can see is the failure of the EOC.
It’s simple. Jesus told the authoritarian top down ruler theological dictatorship of totalism abuse and abandonment to go be right. The response was they were offended and they took action to silence the confrontation by murdering it. A church that is found corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying has murdered Christ as the center of authority in the church that holds ALL in the church transparent and accountable. You do not have to literally physically kill Jesus to kill your church. You only have deny that Christ is the solution to the theological dictatorship religion that kills Christ as the center of authority that holds all transparent and accountable. Denial of the cause of the failure will kill your church dead and it will keep it dead.
Some of you are very keen on what the symptoms are that point to the cause. You are actually brilliant in that observation. However, you are not taking the symptoms back to cause and so your church remains failed no matter what you try to do to stop the dying state of the EOC and to deny that it is in a dying state will kill your church dead. You must go to causation to find solution and unless you do its OVER. Your only future will be unrepentance to carnality to corruption to irrelevancy to insignificance to church death to oblivion. That is not totalism or preaching telling you that. It is the facts of the situations staring all of you in the face and that are denied by all of you.
I fully understand the reaction to the confrontation. You immediately want to go into defense mode and self protect and prove you are right somehow. It is difficult in the extreme to admit the cause of the failure when the failure is your salvation that is failed at providing solution. Totalism salvation will not save your church from totalism self destruction. I promise and all of my promises to the Orthodox come true and just like all of my predictions of the Orthodox come true. Totalism is highly predictable in how it thinks and behaves and so logical end results are easy to formulate.
I take no pleasure in telling you this. In reality is not me telling you this. The obvious state of your church speaks louder and more clear than I can to what is really going on here.
If I may, I would like to refer you to two books that can used as starting points to find solution:
1. The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, Van Vonderen
2. Toxic Faith, Arterburn
I would also encourage you to conduct Google searches are on:
1. Spiritual abuse
2. Religous addiction
3. Totalism
4. Shame based churches
5. Signs of church death
Can you connect the dots Orthodox? You will find that the resources have been produced by not Orthodox Christians and you will not find any Orthodox resources that can match them. There is a causation reason why the Orthodox do not develop resources like this. They would expose why the church is corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying. Yes, I know, you disagree and I fully understand why that you do and you can tell me why I got it wrong from your position of failed church disagreement that is dying without solution.
Ashley Nevins
Nice touch, George.
John, the RCC is at least as corrupt as the EOC. The Protestants in 500 years have grown larger than the EOC. Yes, they have corruption problems too. However, they are able to find solution that makes them far more Christ centered relevant to our generation than the EOC. I read the Orthodox 2010 census and could easily read between the lines of it.
What you believe is a chaotic fractured state of the evangelicals as their weakness is their great strength to change to relevancy and total religious power and control cannot understand how it works successfully without totalism power in control. It works because church/state theological totalism is not involved and just like that totalism structure and system was not Christ come to us in the Gospels and that is why Christ works in the Gospels and what He confronted did not.
John, play along with me here a little bit here for a moment. This a hypothetical illustration. Find a city of 100,000 in freedom of religion America with no church found in it. Yes, we both know there are not any, but that is not the point. Then place an Orthodox parish and an evangelical church in that city. Start each of them with a let’s say a dozen people each. One church will be top down and closed by structure and system and the other will bottom up and open by structure and system. Come back in 5 years and compare the results of the two.
In my city of 200K there is only one Orthodox parish and it has been here for 55 years. On a good Sunday it maybe it has 100 show up. In far less time than that 5 churches in my city have each grown into thousands in regular Sunday attendance. Those churches are alive with the Lordship of Christ at their center and I know for a fact they are held transparent and accountable. They are true repentance to salvation to Christ’s Lordship to change to innovation to relevancy churches. Do they have problems, you bet they do and some of them are flat ugly and I know because I have been asked to be involved in their solution, and they find solution or they would die. I have seen everything from homosexuality, child porn, child sex abuse, internet porn addiction, adultery, stealing and murder. Yes, you heard me right, MURDER, and that pastor is serving a life sentence. They are not at all about unrepentance to carnality to corruption to irrelevancy to insignificance to oblivion churches. They are not too little too late churches. They are real churches that are messy like what Paul confronted in the NT. When there is a serious problem they seriously deal with it right now or they go bye, bye real fast similar to what PTL did. They are Gods true church and not the Orthodox only one true church that is ALWAYS too little too late.
There is a huge difference between true churches and one true churches. The difference is relevancy in Christ by the Lordship of Christ that is not a totalism dictatorship of religion structure and system. If it had been left up to the Orthodox salvation would have NEVER have come to my city and at best only about 100 would be involved in a dead church going no where. Is that lecturing the Orthodox or is it speaking to the reality of the situation?
The Orthodox have been here in America for approximately 200 years and just recently decided to be mission here by their totalism power and control BISHOPS edicting that they could be and when the Gospels defines Christians to be mission wherever they are found. The freedom of Christ in the Gospels defines me and not a dictatorship of failed totalism dead religion. I know who my God is who defines me and He is not Orthodox totalism that defines Christian reality for me. I am a son of Christ and not a religious codependent puppet on the strings of religious dictatorship that is addicted to its power and control. The Orthodox do not know who they are in Christ by who and what defines them and what defines them defines their church failure.
This all goes to the causation I speak into the Orthodox about and that they deny and tell me it is another problem causing the problems and when the cause of the problem is clear to see. It’s the theology and its resulting structure and system. I thoroughly understand what causes church success and its failure. I have been involved in the study of that and the practical application of that my entire adult Christian life. There is a spiritual solution to the failure of the EOC. It is the Lordship of Jesus Christ at the center of authority in the church. That is the key difference between the church that succeeds and the church that fails. The God that leads your church will either lead it to success with the Gospel and NT or it will lead it to the failure of that church with the Gospel and NT.
Since the EOC is Gods ONLY one alone right and one true church it logically should be the most safe, healthy, dynamic and relevant of them all and it is found opposite of that. The fact is that the whole of the EOC is systemically failed from its causation source of failure. Your competition is not and you can clearly see that by stepping out of the closed system church to see how the open system church is far more relevant than is closed system Orthodoxy. Those churches are inclusive by freedom in Christ theology and not exclusive by bondage theology. Denial will see something else. I promise.
Your competition in freedom of religion is not failed and yet you seem to think it will not work when it is working as the missionary machine to the world. It can’t work or Orthodoxy looks as bad as it really does and so the not Orthodox church must somehow be brought down to the level of Orthodox failure or inablity to work and when it works and is not a failure by comparison. It is alive compared to the EOC and all you have to do see that it is alive is to see its relevancy the EOC does not have.
John, I will not join a perfect church. My sin would only ruin its perfection. There are no perfect churches and being alone right and Gods only one true church is not the goal. The goal is a Christ centered outward focused church that is safe, healthy, growing and not afraid to change to relevancy. It is a church that is not so right it cannot change to relevancy. That is exactly who Christ came to us as in the Gospels. He confronted His opposite by not being a top down exclusive closed structure and system that refused to change. All He had to do is stand up next to them and you could see His success compared to their failure. John, it is still the same today.
This is an excellent website. The Orthodox need more just like it. It confronts that which will not confront itself. That is real Christianity seen practiced in the reality of the real world where it really counts.
Those victims in NY need your encouragement and support and they do not need be looked down upon as LOSERS. Most likely their emotional and spiritual lives have been destroyed by the abuses. Orgies with kids!?! Losers destroy children and a loser church will let them. That would be the GO Patriarch and those he put into positions of authority that abuse and enable abuse and just like he enables it too. He knew and he did nothing until the FBI rang his church bell real hard. He only understands the police and the courts and he does not submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in understanding. He is his own transparency and accountability and God just exposed that for what it truly is as leadership in the GOC.
Confronting the UNSTABLES only will not find solution. You have to go to the cause of the instabilty and confront that along with the unstables or you are only dealing in symptoms and not finding solution to causation. John, you are willing to confront the unstables, but are you willing to confront the cause of the instability? I am on your side when I ask such questions. I want you to find solution.
I loved where you said, our attitude might be that if we have corrupt leaders, so what? That is a good starting point to find solution from if you can go to the cause of the ‘so what?’. The ‘so what?’ is apathy an indifference created by being made powerless by corrupt power and control and the corruption has a cause. Does my saying that make me totalism too?
I wish all of you the very best in your efforts to confront corruption and find solution. The self destruction of Christians is very difficult to watch and very difficult to confront. You have both my empathy and prayers in your efforts.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, you sound like a Bleeding deacon… So please save it.
I had the pleasure of growing up at St. Irene Chrysovalntou and know both priests personally for the last 35 years. All who know the history of both priests know that Vikentios was very jealous and envious of Paisios. His last interview with TNH showed just how unstable he is. Shame on all of you who are judging Paisios. No real evidence has been provided. Your info is from the BS you read in the newspaper.
I am not saying that Paisios is a Saint but I do know him personally and respect him 110%. I really don’t care about the money and gold. All I care about is the other accusations and from my experience he is innocent. In the end the truth will come out…
My mother passed away last month. She was sick from the month before so we spent a lot of time together in the hospital. I had informed her about the news with the church and asked her opinion. She told me not believe nor judge anyone. She told me to read the story of St. Nektarios.
This is the story of Saint Nektarios: Nektarios was ordained bishop and assigned in Cairo. It seemed as though Bishop Nektarios had one success after another, but people do not become Saints without difficulty & thorns. So it was with Bishop Nektarios . Some people who disliked him & were jealous of his success made up lies about the good bishop. Patriarch Sophronis was swayed and took everything away from Nektarios.
Cryssi,
Your church is full of the bleeding wounded and many have left near death. It just loves to shoot its wounded. It wounded and shot at least three dozen at the NY monastery. Don’t believe me? Watch, wait and see what all comes out. This is going to be all about totalism power and control over those it causes to bleed out dead. It is going to be self protect the church hierarchy
and the victims can all go to hell and hell will make sure they are all abused by coming forward with the abuses.
It’s about serving the sexual addiction lust of hierarchy and it is nothing about the hierarchy serving the laity by the hierarchy coming under them and raising them up to spiritual maturity and the laity priesthood of believer authority in the church. There is only one authority under totalism and it is not God. It the rule of dictatorship religion man in his dead tradition of failed leadership causing the church to go corrupt without solution.
Mills stones is the future of your church if it does not repent over the right sins and in the right ways of repentance. The blood of children is on its hands and that mocks God and what mocks God is found mocked by God. I promise this is going to happen if the church hierarchy does not lead you into repentance that leads to true solution. Your church is bleeding out to its death. That is the blood seen here.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley,
As I said before no charges have been filed with the authorities. People are coming forward to whom? So far everything has been based on hearsay.
It’s good that you have strong beliefs but so do us Orthodox Christians. I don’t know about the rest but I strongly believe in the Greek Orthodox Church/ way. Who are you to tell people what they need to do or what is going to happen?
PS Orthodoxy will never die!
Chryssi
Hi John,
Reading The National Herald is like reading Us Weekly, National Inquirer, The Sun etc.
I don’t want to open up a can of worms so I won’t. Just don’t believe everything you read.
In the end the truth will come out.
Ashley, the critical fault in your thinking is that you conceive of the Church as a human entity only (or seem to). The trouble with such a view is that it tends to deny the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and drift into an almost deist approach to our inter-relationship with our Lord.
A small quote from an excellent book our men’s group is reading right now, Constantine Scouteris’ Ecclesial Being
Your thought experiment on the planting of an evangelical church and an Orthodox Church in the same community is not really telling at all. The Church is a hospital built by the Holy Trinity for healing. We, her members, are the maimed the halt and the lame, the torn, the bleeding and the wounded. So try a similar experiment with me: assume that a beautiful, fun-filled, recreation area with all types of activities and an accute care hospital were both established in your town where neither had been before–barring a disaster of some sort, would you now expect a great many more folks to be at the recreation center after a year in business than in at the hosptial?
I am not nor will I ever excuse the sinful behavior of our hierachs and leaders, but their sinfulness and ours in no way vitiates the reality of who we are. Each and everytime we celebrate the Divine Liturgy, God is with us and we partake of Him, therefore we have life and the Church has life. That life overflows unto everyone drawn to Him and the Cross and the gates of hell will not prevail against us.
Thank you for your prayers and may His mercy be with you as well.
Michael,
Ask and you shall receive…
Please conduct a Google search on the following:
1. National Association for Christian Recovery
2. Celebrate Recovery
3. Christian recovery churches
4. Christian recovery ministry
5. Churches that abuse
You will find that they offer church healing ministry resources the EOC does not quite offer.
The resources represent the edge of the cutting edge of Christ centered healing ministry in the church and yes it is modernity in the church that does not deny modern problems of the wounded and broken in the church and the larger society. It is the front lines of spiritual warfare that defeats the evil one and takes back the captives by setting them free. It rationally sees the issues with objectivity that does not deny the problems or their solution. It is Christ centered and so it is other centered and that is the diametric opposite of a self centered closed system church. It comes to you with healing solution by outreach ministry church and it is not a church of you come to me and we then we abuse you when you do come for healing. It is outward focused on healing and not inward focused on its self centered self.
I am the first one to admit of the abuses of your relevancy competitor in freedom of religion. That is why they write books on spiritual abuse and toxic faith. They are not in denial of their issues like another church I know that is. Yes, they fail, but they have solution to their failures you do not have and so while you die by irrelevancy to our generation they live by bringing healing life to the wounded and broken in our midst.
I just brought you another solution. Did you conduct the searches to see how that I did? Or, am I still somehow not getting it about the Orthodox church failure and why it fails? Yes, all of you need to think self protection defensive to find solution.
Will the GOA be allowing SNAP to conduct sex abuse recovery groups in their parishes in NY? I understand that before this over there will more than three dozen victims.
Will those sex abuse victims from that NY monastery be involved in a Christ centered and Christian sex abuse recovery group in a Orthodox parish? I know two recreational churches here in my city that have them. You can tell how spiritually shallow and immature they are by having such ministry in the church. It’s just pop culture church with secular humanistic psychology deceiving many that it is Christ’s healing in the church, right?
Next.
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, I have no idea what the GOA will do and I am sure that there are a great many ministries in evangelical circles that are worthy and necessary. That is not the point.
The GOA may well wither and die, its candlestick removed, but the Church will not.
We obviously have a lot of work to do, but so do all Christians.
Michael,
Yes, Christians will ALWAYS have a lot to do in Christianity, so what? Nothing new in that.
What is the cause of the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church?
What is the solution to the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church?
Those are the questions I keep asking all of you. That is the point.
Did you review the resources I gave you to Google search? Any thinking for yourself thoughts? And, thinking for yourself is too the point. It is called thinking out of the closed box of subjective isolation to solution. Did you isolate yourself from the resources on healing church relevancy? After all, this whole conversation started over victims of Orthodox church sex abuse and the scandal around their abuse, right? What, you don’t want to talk about their healing solution?
You are right. The church will not die. God will simply bypass what is dead and move into the future with what is alive and just like Jesus did in the Gospels. No church is immune and including the entire of the EOC that God is bypassing. If you cannot see the bypassing then what do you see happening? This issue is larger than the DOA GOA. I read between the lines of the 2010 Orthodox census. Dean Calverts analysis of that census at its end said you had a lot of work to do and I say, so what and what is new with that? It is the same Orthodox denial of the true cause of the failure. No amount of work is going to work in your church if it does not find solution that works.
I would say the bottom up and open system freedom in Christ church is working circles around the circular Orthodox and your competition is not going in circles. It moves in a fairly straight line to success and away from failure. Look at the resources I gave you in the last post to see how we work in comparison to how your church jurisdiction works GOA or not. Those resources provide solutions that work.
Thinking for yourself is hard work that works and the resources prove it. A true healing model church is hard work. They work because they obviously know its a lot of work to make them work. They don’t talk about the obvious, they do the obvious and that is why they are found relevant by their work. Their work is based in solution because their theology provides solution that works. God works if you are willing to work with God to do the work of God and that kind of work is relevancy work that turns a church into relevancy.
Yes, the Orthodox church has a lot of work to do and so what? That’s a given if you are a Holy Spirit led Christian. If Orthodox church does the wrong kind of work it will remain irrelevant and only really relevant to itself. Relevancy is hard work. Thinking for yourself to relevancy is the hard work of becoming and staying relevant. Being basically only relevant to yourselves is dead religion social club church that talks Christianity, but does not really live out or practice real world Christianity that is hard work. I know all about the hard work of church relevancy and I also know all about the work of those churches found irrelevant by their RELIGIOUS WORKS. Its easy to tell them apart.
Orthodoxy may well be relevant to all of you, but unless it is truly alive in Christ the Orthodox will never really be able to make that relevant to those outside of them in freedom of religion where their are alive choices and alternatives to declining Orthodoxy. Have any of you ever read the books written by George Barna? He’s radical about innovation to change to relevancy. He’s got this great book out called PAGAN CHRISTIANITY that exposes the traditions of men in the Protestant church. With a little out of the box conceptual thinking on any Orthodox part and it would expose the same in your church too by reading it.
I just love the title, don’t you? It just protests so very well and it don’t mince words. The book talks about organic church bottom up, bottom up and more bottom up. It is highly open system open think church. It’s radical change to new relevancy. I believe it is a reformation of the Reformation and it is going to work. It’s an Orthodox must read book.
I’m telling you, your missing it if you don’t read Barna. He is on the edge of the cutting edge. The Orthodox will just love the title of his first book, Marketing the Church. Hee, hee, any Saints rolling over in their graves? Barna takes risks for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Period.
Nothing the Orthodox are working on is finding solution to failed state of church. It is all circular without solution circling right back into the same corruptions over and over again by the exact same systemic causation. Yes, it will take a lot of work for the Orthodox to finally come to see the causation of the church failure and its solution.
Ashley Nevins
It might be useful to point out that in the area of sexual abuse Protestants have plenty of trouble…
Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year
Read more: http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm#ixzz1AOCJQKIr
These men deserve severe worldly punishment and it will come it will come to them, one bit at a time. We now live in a modern world. Word travels fasts and lots of people know things as they happen…..
Boy, isn’t that true! A lot of wisdom in that saying.
Orthodox, I understand how challenging this all is to you. It comes out of no where and straight up at you without compromise. The discussion is finding fault with the analysis. That is not a problem with me that you do. It is a problem for all of you because you are not offering up solution. You can talk about all other things except the solution and then not find solution. If the solution is only symptom solution the cause of the problems will never be solved.
This is all overwhelming. I know. It is designed to cause you to PROCESS it by thinking for yourselves. It is meant to rock your bubble and make it go pop. That is process based Christianity that leads to solution. It will lead to the process of recovery for your church and that is the solution found by not denying the cause. There is a process of church restoration and you are without it by denying the cause of the problem. Be encouraged, Orthodox, there is a solution process to church recovery and new life if it is not denied.
Orthodox, what is the CAUSE of the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church? Can a one of you identify it for me and since I don’t have the read right from inside the corrupt church? You can ONLY find that out by taking symptoms back to cause. That is not an argument I am trying to make with any of you. It is common sense. I am not trying to win a debate. The evil one has already won by the state of your church. If you got a fire that will not go out do you fight the fire symptoms or do you go to cause of the fire and fight it there? Yes, I know, the fire is burning so out of control it is extremely difficult for an Orthodox to know what the source of the fire is to find to put out. And, some of you think I am overwhelming? Look at the fire burning that overwhelms all of your so called fire suppression attempts. None of them work, do they. That is not a question. It is a statement of fact that questions the Orthodox failure by the facts of the failure.
Orthodox, your church is on fire and burning to the ground and none of you are seeing the cause of the fire. You can point your finger at other Christian churches that have issues too, but that is not solving your problem. Your church is irrelevancy compared to your number one competitor in freedom of religion that is competition. You can blame or deflect by taking this personal and when the problem is personally destroying your church that you all personally belong too. Yes, call that boiling Christianity down to a human only institution and when it is revealing the human man in rule of church exposing his corrupt flesh that is not submitted to Christ’s Lordship. I do not bring you down to the level of mans institution, but your church of the rule of man does and that is why it is found corrupted to it core without solution from the core out.
I want to see Christians raised up to the maturity and character of Christ and will confront that which destroys a church ability to do that. I am not popular among you by telling you this, am I?
Orthodox, I know all of your rationalizatons, counter arguments, justifications and reasoning. I see right through it all to cause. I read my Gospels and can see them all there. They are archaic self protection defenses that all deny the cause. Yes, disagree, and do not take sypmtoms back to cause and remain the cause of your own failure. Call the cause something other than the cause to remain secure in the false security that is insecurity seen in the church failure that points directly to the cause that you all deny.
Thinking for yourself is hard work and it requires you take personal responsiblity for your personal Christianity and the Christianity of the larger church. Instead, let totalism take responsibility for your Christian lives and church and see where that leads you all. Letting totalism failure think for you is lazy and failure wants you to stay lazy so do not go back to cause and find solution that threatens its power and control over you all. Let religious codependency lead your thinking and you will never think for yourselves to cause or solution. I promise.
You are right, the church is not a completely human institution. Christ is to be the Lordship center of the church holding ALL in the church transparent and accountable. All are to submit to Christ personally first or you GO CORRUPT. Call that Protestant, western rational Christianity, hertrodoxy or what ever, your church is still corrupt without soluton by the solution being the problem applied to the problem and that causes you to go circular without solution. Call it want you want in your comparison of it to your failure that is Gods objective standard of true truth church measure and miss the point of the confrontation by making me the problem. It will not work. I have too much training, education and experience for it to work. I have seen and heard it all and I know what is really going on when that comes out.
Let mind control by totalism create a short attention span and memory among you and easily forget what is being exposed here. Move onto your next debacle without solution and forget the last debacle that also had no solution. You know, Katinas, the OCA, the EP, etc. Like Met Jonah have profound respect for the corrupt and feel sad at the events in NY like the GOA Archbishop does and then move onto the next scandal without learning your lessons from the previous scandals by allowing the scandal to handle the scandal and that only results in more scandal. Is this me being the totalism I point out???
Let’s look at the two largest jurisdictions in the USA. Are they found with solution or are they dying without solution? What is their state of those churches? Who leads them and what is the spiritual state of their laities? What is theology that creates the structure and system of those jurisdictions and that then leads those jurisdictions? Where are these jurisdictions being led too???
Christ did not come to us as a top down totalism church/state theology with a resulting absolute power and control structure and system that causes the church to become closed, isolated and subjective and with a character of self centeredness, self protection and self sufficiency. That is corruption that leads to the death of a church. It turns the church into ROC circa 1917 serfs owned by the rule of corrupt man in the traditions of dead religion. The laity is not the center of the church that the leadership comes under and raises up to the maturity of Christ. It is diametrically opposite in Orthodoxy. The rule does not serve, all of you serve it! That is religious codependency that leads to church failure by submitting to the pride of man in top down rule power and control that makes you all PAWNS to be manipulated to its power and control ends that are bringing your church to its end.
Totalism is absolute power that corrupts totally by absolute control in the power. Totalism OWNS all under its rule and it treats you like it owns you and that is not Christ as Lord. It is man as God who owns the church and the church goes corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying. That is where all the spiritual abuse and spiritual abandonment is coming from and that are SYMPTOMS pointing the CAUSE.
All of you STILL talk as if the solution can be found within yourselves and within the structure and system of your church. That is self sufficiency by believing you are Gods ONLY alone right and one true church and the self sufficiency comes directly out of the self centered and self protective totalism theology. Keep staring the failure in the face and keep denying its cause and the cause will keep your church in a state of irrelevant insignificance without solution. The best logical outcome the rational reasoning Christian mind can see as your end result will be a survival existence state of church that is circular corrupt and failed without solution.
Thinking for yourself in Christ Lordship thinking exposes the cause of the EOC failure. You will never see the cause of the failure as long as totalism is your thinking that thinks for you and in ways none of you can see. This is not about winning an argument with me. The argument has been won by the evil one. Your church is found in survival existence state without solution. Satan will subtly and unseen by all of you cause you to defend the indefensible as if you are being attacked somehow and when you are only being exposed for the cause of the failure. He does not want you to go to cause. He wants you to believe the cause is other than the cause to keep you a corrupt failure like he is a corrupt failure.
You will respond like John 8:31-59 in self protective and therefore subjective apologetic defense. All the defenses to Christ confrontation made there are the same apologetic defenses some of you are making in response to my confrontation. Those are system verses showing the system of Christ in the Gospels. A system in this context has a theology source that results in a structure that the system comes out of. Orthodox, what do those Christ confronted use to defend themselves with?
A critical thinking for yourself question none of you are asking yourselves is this:
Is it possible that after centuries of Orthodox totalism rule based upon traditions the Orthodox church has now been turned into a dead traditions of men church gone corrupt by its theology?
I am not asking you to give me your answer. I am asking you to think for yourself to the answer.
Yes, that kind of a question causes a particular reaction. I fully understand that. It is by design that I ask it to cause that reaction to expose what the reaction really is based in. The Orthodox cannot ask themselves questions like this because the Orthodox cannot think conceptually outside of their closed, isolated and subjective theological box. What’s next, this is the wrong question to ask? That is circular thinking to think that. The closed box is alone right and Gods only truth and so you do not question the box. The box thinks for you. Your thinking is LIMITED to the 6 sides of the closed box and so that is the limit of your ability to conceptually think outside of that closed box to solution.
The box is the only solution and do you know what? Christ as solution is in no church box. The solution is outside of the closed box. Christ came to us out of the totalism box. He came as least expected. He came opposite of what He confronted to make the clear comparison no matter what Orthodox TRADITION says otherwise by structure and system of dead religion church gone corrupt. It does not matter how old you are and you all like to make that as a defense. The longer you have been this way the more ingrained this becomes your thinking and the more you deny that your thinking is FAILED. You systemically by generational transmission pass this fozzilized museum dead thinking onto each passing generation and add more to that dead thinking with each passing generation until you reach a point of NO RETURN.
The point of no return church is the frog in the kettle church.
Christ is humility to repentance to Lordship to resurrection to new life. (CHANGE)
Orthodoxy is pride to unrepentance to the rule of man to irrelevancy to church death. (NO CHANGE)
Are any of wondering why your church is not changing by finding solution to what is CAUSING its corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church?
Orthodox, you cannot put Christ into a closed box of top down theological power and control where you by your power and control try to control God. You cannot by totalism theological power control outcomes or image by playing God. God will not be mocked. He will turn that mocking around on you and show you for who you truly are by mocking yourselves. He will simply leave you to yourselves in your own totalism power and control to find solution and you will go circular without solution and made to be fools who mock themselves in their mocking of God. Your failure is God reversing the mocking. You refuse to listen to God to find solution for yourselves being your own in your own power solution that you only listen too. Being your own solution mocks God and God is no one to mock.
You can deny that the Orthodox church is found in an irrelevant state of survival existence without solution and believe you are right. My only response to that thinking is, go be right Orthodox.
Yes, I know, speaking into you like that this is not going to be received well, but the self destruction of your church is received well by all of you or it would not be found in a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state without solution. Yes, many of you are concerned and some of you actually do protest the corruption by standing up to it, but that is not the solution. The solution is going to cause and working out from the center of cause to solution. Since the cause is sacred to all of you then nothing is going to change and your church will continue its death spiral into irrelevant and insignificant oblvion no matter what you try to do to reverse the dying decline.
Being miserable inside a church that refuses solution is the Orthodox future without solution. Most all of you have become so carnalized that corrupt leaders are tolerated and yet those corrupt leaders are intolerant of any critical analysis by critically thinking about them. The norm is corruption and so you no longer confront the corruption for your apathetic and indifferent nomalizing of it. You accept it because the apathy and indifference is the powerless state the totalism places all of you into. Oh, yes, it does too, Orthodox. You do not repent over the right sins and in the right ways of repentance and so no confrontation that goes to cause takes place and you go circular without solution. This has been going for centuries and now it all catches up with you. God does not tell us WHEN our sin will find us out. He just tells us that it will.
Orthodox, I can see your sin. I see the state of your church. That is your sin finding you out if it can be seen and seen for what it truly is. You all act as if you sin has not found you out and so you do not go to the cause of the sin that finds you out and remove without solution. You are in denial of the sin that finds you out and so you do not recognize the sin that finds you out. Is that lecturing the Orthodox or is that confronting the Orthodox?
Orthodox the cause will lead you to solution if you do not deny the cause. That is not arguing against you. It is arguing for you. In John 8:31-59 Christ was arguing for them and what was their reaction to His confrontation that argued for them? They wanted to OFF Him on the spot. He was boldly and without compromise telling them that HE ALONE is salvation and they argued back that the traditions of men is salvation. They denied salvation as Christ alone as solution. He spoke into their closed, isolated and subjective box of we alone are right and they rejected the salvation solution that came to them outside of them. They believed they were their own solution. Can you see that taking place???
Orthodox, you do not have a salvation solution to the corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church. God does not call Christians to live without solution in a miserable state of corruption, failure, irrelevancy and death. Oh, but the evil one who Christ points to as their true God in John 8:31-59 will lead you into exactly that. It is his character and he will turn you into his character if you follow him. You will follow him and be blind to the fact that you are and the signs of your blind following that is in denial of its blindness is the state of your church. Orthodox, the state of your church is in direct proportion to the state of your blindness. Can you SEE how blind I am telling you that you are by the state of your church? The state of your church tells me you cannot see the cause of its state or its solution. Yes, look to the Patriarch’s of Orthodoxy for solution and look to Mt. Athos to take you to cause. It will NEVER happen. Those closed boxes have no solution to offer and the only solution they can supply is what is the cause of your church failure. You have to think for yourself to cause to find the solution.
The argument Christ brought to them in John that was in support of them in the confrontation is simple to see: CRITICALLY THINK FOR YOURSELF IN CHRIST LORDSHIP. They were so reactionary right in self defense they could only think like they had been mind controlled indoctrinated to think. He exposed how shallow and hollow their self protection was and they hated Him for that. He exposed the sin that finds them out. They being alone right compared themselves to themselves and He compared them to Himself. Get it? Yes, I know, this is most likely the first time most of you have looked at it like this. You are seeing it from the Christ centered outside looking in and not from the Orthodox centered inside looking out.
Christ went to cause as He exposed the symptoms they raised up as subjective and closed apologetic defense. He told them Satan was their cause and god. Tough stuff, right, Orthodox? They tried to defend the indefensible and like all idolators in a cult of totalism mind control do. No matter what Christ told them they were right and He was wrong. The system of Christ in the Gospels is be to our only salvation and they all disagreed by traditions of men in failed salvation based upon something OTHER than Jesus. Christ + anything else = failed salvation. That is system context of Christ as the system context of all the Gospels. He alone is salvation and solution. Period.
A failed salvation will not solve the corruption of a church, but it will enable the corruption of a church. Undermine the authority of Christ’s Lordship at the center of a church by raising up other things that are equal to Christ’s authority in the church and those other things wll lower Christ’s authority and the church goes corrupt without solution by those other things being used as salvation and the salvation solution. A church either works by its salvation or it does not work by it. That is Christian common sense. Your salvation is your systemic unity and that is why ALL Orthodox jurisdictions are found failed by the same cause source. That failure is not the SYSTEM context of Christ in the Gospels that I speak into you all about. You fail systemically by totalism theology and the traditions of men and that is what Christ was telling them was their failure in John 8:31-59.
The disagreement here is the thinking for yourself in dialogue with what thinks for the Orthodox. Yes, I know that most all of you disagree with me by totalism stop think. You stop thinking at the walls of the totalism box and therefore cannot think outside of that box. Stop think is a symptom of cultism. Open think is Christ in the Gospels confronting stop think. Christ is out of the closed box of stop think as an open system that can think for itself with open think. Christ is change because Christ can conceptually think for Himself outside of the box of totalism. The Orthodox do not teach this in seminary. They teach closed think we are Gods alone right and only one true church and that is stop think that stops the church dead in its tracks.
Stop think will disagree. I promise.
Stop think will kill your ability to find relevancy in freedom of religion that is all about the freedom to think for yourself to solution. The danger in letting totalism think for you is that totalism is delusional about itself by being totalism. Think it through for yourselves to the truth of that. Totalism will make you as delusional as it is and delusional church is subjective church that fails in objective competition. The delusional will disagree in their obvious failure. The Orthodox are not at all use to this kind of a confrontation from INSIDE of their closed box because of the failure that will not confront the cause of the failure for it being the failure. The box cannot confront the box for the box being alone right Gods only truth. Some of you do confront. You confront symptoms and not cause and the church remains failed.
Few, if any of you, have met a Christian who can think for himself outside of your closed box quite like I do. I have arguments in support of you that I have not brought forward and that most all of you will take as harsh or negative analysis when it is pointing at the harsh reality of the cause that is causing negative outcome of your church. Ladies and gentlemen, the reality I speak too is far worse than any words I can use to discribe it to you. There are huge eternal salvation consequences involved if your salvation cannot provide solution and way of escape and it can’t. It is a closed box dead end. A closed box is a dead end and that is why Christ did not come to us in the Orthodox closed box or as anything remotely similar to it. By being open He confronted what was closed. IT DOES NOT WORK THE OTHER WAY AROUND. GET IT?
Orthodox, can you open think about your stop think? Can you conceptually think outside of the closed think box? Can you go to the cause of the stop think that is a symptom pointing to the cause? Those questions are not arguing against you. They are asking you to think for yourselves and that is arguing for you!
Orthodox, go be right in the obvious cause of your failure that you all deny is the cause of the failure by stop think closed system thinking that is alone right or open think to the cause of the failure and find solution. The solution is outside of your top down and closed system church. It is the bottom up and open system Christ who comes to you as your only solution to your corruption you have no solution too. Apply the solution and find new life or deny the solution and die. That is the reality of the situation and my pointing out the reality is not against you. It is for you.
Tough love is not a concept found among the Orthodox who cannot find solution by the one true truth love they claim they have. The Bible does not lie. They will know we are Christians by our love. In other words, the kind of love we have based in our truth will be the love we have that does not lead to church corruption, failure, irrelevancy and death. When we do fail it will find solution. God is telling us the world outside of us will know what we are by our love and Christ love is not a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying church that has no solution. How you love like Christ loves from your salvation will determine your success or failure with Christ, the Gospels and the NT.
They will know they are Orthodox by their love. Yes, quite literally those outside of Orthodoxy will know by thinking for themselves to know. Christ’s love can think for itself to know. The evil one’s hate will lead you to his solution. Hate is self centered, self protective and self sufficient. Think it through, Orthodox. Hate and not love leads to the death state of a church. The dead will disagree. Hate killed their ability to think for themselves to Christ’s love solution in Christ’s salvation. They never saw the hate deception as Gods love coming and do not realize how their solution hates Christ as solution and so they remain circular without solution by ways and means they do not see. Totalism is idol god man in his own power of dictatorship rule that hates true God Christ Lordship power in rule over it. Totalism must be in total power and control as its own god solution and that god fails the Orthodox.
How hate actually hates is not always obvious to us and it can look just like the love of Christ in its deception that leads to delusion about what the love of God truly is. Hate will tell you it is the love solution to set you up to kill your church. You can see the solution hates provides in its love promise to give you solution. It promises to be conciliar with you and that is lie that leads to spiritual abuse and spiritual abandonment by religious dictatorship love. The practical reality of the lie of hate believed to be love is seen in the practical real world in a corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying state of church without solution. Sin hates the Lordship of Christ and that is why sin leads to death and the death of a church. Good Orthodox folks, it is obvious that sin has led your church to this end and sin is not your sincerity of belief in God. It is the sin of idolatry of the cause that you make God.
Love wants you to find solution. Hate does not. Love is with solution. Hate is out of solution. Christ is with solution. Sanhedrin is without solution. Orthodox, can you connect simple Gospel of Christ dots?
Orthodox, is tough love tough to hear for how it does not mince words in confrontation that does not compromise the cause of the failure?
Thinking for yourself in Christ Lordship gives you the freedom in Christ to re-think your thinking and come to solution about problems. Orthodox, you might consider giving that a try. The worse that could happen is that you still undermine your thinking by allowing something or someone else to rule over the thinking of Lordship Christ in your head. The best that could happen is that you allow the Lordship of Christ in freedom in Christ to lead your thinking to solution.
Taking risks for the Gospels leads to a relevancy church that is with Christ as its salvation solution. Thinking for yourself outside of totalism Orthodoxy thinking for you is taking the risk to find the Christ centered relevancy solution to the corrupt, failed, insignificant and dying state of the EOC that has no solution. The risk of Christ to solution exists outside of your no risk taking dying church. Orthodox, don’t take the risk and so don’t find change to innovation to relevancy to new life in Christ who exists as relevancy and life outside of your irrelevant church death. Also, please in your denial find fault with those Christians churches outside of you and so you don’t have to face your own failure that you deny by pointing the finger at relevancy that has salvation solution and that is not dying by its salvation.
This is the Orthodox century for America! Your bishops have now defined you as mission and so this can happen. Freedom of church and state religion is going to find relevancy in the EOC and convert to bondage by church and state religion. That is delusional thinking.
What in reality is taking place is simple. This is the century that freedom of religion competition exposes the cause of the EOC failure in America. Rational objectivity exposes irrational subjectivity and it does not work the other way around unless you are delusional in irrational subjective thinking and therefore believe that it is objective thinking that is rationally sane in thinking. A church gone irrationally insane is a church found in a corrupt, failied, irrelevant and dying state without solution and that believes it is Gods only alone right and one true truth church on the planet. That is very difficult to hear, is it not? Does it make you want to defend the indefensible? I hope that you do defend the indefensible to reveal the failure of the defense to provide solution.
Orthodox, I do not watch your claiming lips of being Gods only alone right and one true church. I watch your failed hips. You can claim to be who ever you want by your lips. I will watch your hips to see if they match up with your mouth that calls me a HERETIC-ODOX. I am all mixed up by being heresy and truth together and therefore I am without solution by the dualism of thinkng. I should listen to James, I am double minded in the Orthodox Mind, right? My Christian thinking is fractured and in disunity compared to the Orthodox in their unfractured unity reflected in their mutual dying state of unity. I don’t have the richness of the full Orthodox Gospel and all that the Orthodox church claims that it is, right? I really don’t know what it is I am missing and if I truly did I would repent of my error and convert, right? Yes, I want to convert from freedom to bondage. I want to convert from success to failure. I am telling you how you sound and look to those outside of your delusional viewpoint of yourselves in your failure. It’s not beautiful Orthodoxy, is it? You folks might consider getting over yourselves. It will help a lot.
I am wrong and the Orthodox are always right. Being right makes the Orthodox church a safe, healthy, functional and relevant church that is Gods only true truth measure of what is a real Christian church. All churches are measured against the truth of Gods only true church and they are found wrong in the comparison by the only true church. Heresy = wrong. Maybe this is being simplistic, but I always thought being wrong leads to failure. Orthodox by your Gods only one true truth, I wrong to think that?
The Bible tells us we can KNOW they are Christians by their love. That is Christ in the practical reality of the real world seen by His hips that match His lips. If you can see it you can measure it and a claim is no practically seen measure, but you can compare the reality of Orthodox love to their claim to meaure the success or failure of both. The Orthodox love to measure in their hypocrisy of measure that does not measure them to Christ in the Gospels. Your measure of yourselves is your comparison to yourselves that always sees you differently than how you truly are in the practical reality of the real world where it counts and so you are found failed by being the idol that measures the idol.
Orthodox, I know you are Orthodox by how you love. Your love is the state of your church. Your church loves all of you just like it loves Christ who is your only salvation and solution. It loves you and Jesus with corruption, failure, irrelevancy and church death as the love seen its salvation. That is spiritual abuse and spiritual abandonment calling itself Gods only one true salvation in Gods love come to America. If that is Gods true salvation and right solution come to us what is Satans false salvation and lying solution come to us??? That is exactly what Christ was addressing in John 8 and it is the context of all the Gospels. It was out of the box confronting in the box and the confrontation is a clear warning to not go into that kind of a box. Yes, I know, not a one of you believes he or she is in this box like I desribe the box and that is the problem. The Orthodox parish in my city believes they are the only ones with Christ’s true salvation in my city and that is why on a good Sunday after 55 years of Sundays only 100 show up? You can pretty much duplicate that same outcome in all cities you are found in after being here for 200 years.
This is not the subjective Orthodox mirror on the wall telling you all that you are the most beautful church of them all. The objective mirror of Christ in the Gospels is telling me a different story and its not a pretty story told. The more I understand the Orthodox failure the more the Orthodox look like the modern day equivelant to the Sanhedrin. That will make some of you angry. I hope it does. Let your reaction come forward to the truth of the failure and what it really looks like in modernity that has caught up with all of you in your museum church of dying decline dead traditions of men and that cannot find relevancy in our generation and like Christ was relevancy to His generation. Telling.
Think for yourselves to solution by coming out the closed box so that you can. That is on your side and not against you and yet many of you will take this as a other than its intent by we alone are right reaction that does not think for itself. If any of you believe you are above, set apart from or not involved in the failure as the failure yourselves you are deceived by the failure. The theology is your thinking and your thinking has led to church failure.
Thinking for yourselves is hard work. You have a lot of thinking for yourselves hard work to do to find recovery and restoration. I wish you all the very best in that thinking out of the closed box process to solution. If you have not reached the point of no return you will find solution and it will not take 200 years to find that solution. All indications are that you all refuse the solution or it would have been found by now. That is Christian real world reality that Biblically by Christ Lordship can think for itself to see that you are not finding solution within yourselves or your church.
Orthodox, self protective reaction based in self centered self sufficiency will not lead to solution.
I promise.
Blessings of grace to all of you and may grace bring you solution to the failure.
Ashley Nevins
PS: Orthodox were any of your priests, monastics or bishops found among the Black Robes of the American Revolution? Think it through by thinking for yourselves. Welcome to America based upon freedom from church and state totalism that thinks for itself and that is why it is not based upon church and state totalism and instead is based in the Reformation that broke the back of church and state rule setting us free to become the Christian missionary machine to the world. Frankly, had it been left up to the failed Orthodox Christ as my salvation would have never come to me and I would not be found confronting all of you today as to the true cause of your Gods only true church failure.
Wow! Getting shorter and shorter I see.
Ah, Ashley. If you only spent as must time learning proper grammer as you do typing your rather inane screeds… you might actually have a message worth wading through.
Good morning, Heracleides,
I hope this day finds you thinking for yourself well.
Considering state of your church you might consider making the sacrifice and wade through it to solution.
Here is the core of it since you can’t seem to understand it.
Jesus did not come to us a top down authoritian totalism church/state theology that is closed, isolated and subjective and whose character is self centered, self protective and self sufficient. He did not come to us in a corrupt, failied, irrelevant and dying state without solution.
Christ came to as:
Philippians chapter 2 to repentance to transformation to change to innovation to relevancy to church alive to solution.
Orthodoxy comes to us as:
Pride to unrepentance to molding to no change to no innovation to no relevancy to dead church to failure.
Humility is the opposite of pride. Bottom up is the opposite of top down. Open is opposite of closed.
Christ came to us at our totalism ruled over and rule spiritually abused and rule spiritually abandoned bottom with healing solution through Him alone as salvation to solution. He came opposite to what He confronted to make the clear distinction between Him alone as salvation and totalism as salvation. Christ came to us as the salvation solution to a corrupt, failed, irrelevant dying totalism structure and system of dead religion based upon the traditions of men in their legalism, works and performance based man centered and traditions of men centered salvation.
I don’t believe the problem you are having is understanding me. I believe it is dead church denial of the cause of the EOC failure that is the issue here. I am the problem for pointing out the problem and I am the problem because my grammer is not right. That is failure to see the failure of the EOC and it is failure based in the denial of the failure. That is as simple to understand as I am.
Denial of your denial will not lead your church to solution, but it will make sure you do not find solution.
Do the hard work of wading through the resources by Google search and by thinking for yourself Christianity that leads to solution by going to cause and then does not deny the cause. My grammer is not the problem here. The Orthodox denial of the cause of their failure is.
Thinking for yourself Christianity that is centered in the reasoning of the Lordship of Christ can think for itself to solution because the Lordship of Christ is the center of authority in the church holding all transparent and accountable to Christ’s authority FIRST.
Please, blow the dust off of you Bible and read John 8:31-59 to see all the Orthodox counter arguments and the cause of their failure found there. Those verses outline the system of Christ in the Gospels and it is an open system that is bottom up confronting a closed system that is top down. You can clearly see Christ telling them that HE ALONE is salvation and solution to their failure to grasp Him as their Lordship savior that defeats the dead traditions of totalism dead religion salvation that leads to failure with out Him as salvation and solution alone. He tells them who is their true authority in their failure that leads them to failure without Him as their center. Is that not clear to you?
Heracheides, the EOC is failed and it has no solution by its salvation and I know why. Your grammer tells me that you are in denial of the cause of that failure. It’s just too hard to wade through to solution and that is denial of the problem and the solution together. I fully understand the totalism mind that denies its totalism failure by totalism thinking for you and that is the cause of your denial of my grammer that goes to cause and to solution. I understand how totalism reacts to a Christ-centered confrontation that goes to the cause of the totalism failure that totalism mind control denies is a failure and that has no solution by the totalism problem being the solution to the totalism problem.
Circular without solution is the solution the Orthodox apply to the problem by applying the problem to the problem as its solution. You have to come out of the totalism closed box to see the cause of the problem by conceptual Christian reason that can think for itself to see the cause of the problem and its solution. Christ is not in your closed, isolated and subjective box and that is why you are without solution. The solution is outside of your church and that is why my grammer is wrong and it is wrong in your closed Orthodox mind because the solution I bring you is not from inside the closed box of subjective failure. It is the objective solution that can see both the cause of the failure and its solution by being the solution that comes to you from outside of you. You know, like when Jesus came to us as the same in the Gospels. The solution is a truly Christ-centered alone solution.
I am Christ-centered therefore I think for myself. I think for myself therefore I am Christ-centered. I am Christ-centered therefore I have solution. I am Christ-centered therefore Christ alone is the solution. Simple is Gospel solution to the Orthodox failure. Christ came to as simplicity salvation. It’s simple, He alone is salvation and solution or your fail as a church by you yourselves being the salvation solution. Your failure of church is obvious and so its cause of failure and the failures’ solution.
The opposite of this is simple to see. I am totalism centered therefore totalism thinks for me. I cannot think for myself therefore I am totalism centered. Totalism alone is the solution. Simple is this to see as the Orthodox failure that has no solution. Those Christ confronted in their totalism failure also beleived they were the right theology, the right worship, the right belief, the right fathers, the right traditions, the right history, the right structure and system and the right salvation. They too believe they were Gods alone right and one true truth in salvation and they were found spiritually bankrupt by their salvation that was their failure. Those Christ confronted were corrupt, failed, irrelevant and dying by being self centered, self protective and self sufficient salvation. Connect the dots Orthodox or continue to fail without solution.
I fully understand why the totalism mind cannot grasp what it is I am speaking into it about.
Thinking for yourself is hard work, is it not? Letting failure think for you is not hard work, right? Some of you almost realize the width and depth of your church failure by seeing the clear symptons of its failure, but you have no solution from the cause of the failure and that is more than proved by this point in time by your irrelevancy in your failure. You admit you have a lot of work to do. You can let failure think for you until Christ comes and still fail if your work does not lead you to the cause and solution to the failure. That will only end up in a church of dead religious works that fails and no matter how hard all of you work to stop the failure by your religious works.
Religous works is all about trying to find solution in its OWN power and that is the cause of the self centered, self protective and self sufficient we are Gods alone right and one true church failure whose basis of failure is its theology and the resulting structure and system that come out of that theology.
The Lordship of humble Christ at your center is your ONLY solution and not the pride of the totalism rule power and control of man as your center as your solution.
Christ alone is the salvation solution to the totalism salvation solution that does not work.
You church is as failed by the degree its salvation is a failure. Your church is failed without solution by its totalism salvation. In the Orthodox Mind controlled by totalism the cause of the failure is not the theology that creates the Orthodox Mind and whose thinking is its failure. Totalism mind control is the failure of Orthodox Minds to find solution to its failure. Totalism will deny it is failed and the cause of the failure or its looses totalism mind control over you all and totalism is all about its power and control over minds. That is how dictatorships work. Period.
By totalism rule of man being the power and control at the center of your church that is the set up of Satan ruling from behind the scenes unseen as he pulls all the Orthodox puppet strings that corrupt your church to a point of no return by Satan unknown to all you providing the solution that fails. Is that grammer clear enough for you?
Simple is Christ alone as solution come to your failure as the solution and all of you deny Him alone as the solution and so you fail in your own rule power of man who rules the church in his own power and that is totalism dead dictatorship religion gone corrupt by its theology that is totalism.
Deny the solution and die or embrace the solution and find revival and new life. I read between the lines of the 2010 Orthodox census. Simple.
Ah, does this clear up your complaint now or do I need to think for you some more to explain the failure and its ONLY solution? Your complaint in reality is an excuse to not do the hard work of finding the cause and its solution. You simply do not like being told what the cause of the failure is and what its solution is and that is the reaction here. All of you believe totalism is the solution and so I am always going to be found wrong in some way by you. It will be threading a camel through a needle like you all like to do in your totalism legalism that is your failure. I see right through all of this and that is very troubling to the Orthodox that I can and since they cannot. So, logically you have to make me the problem somehow to deny the cause and its solution. I see the cause and its solution that totalism legalism’s deny.
I am troubling to the Orthodox in my thought provoking thinking for itself Christ-centered reasoning that can see the cause of your failure and its only solution. I rock the Orthodox boat, so-to-speak. I protest the cause of the failure and not the symptoms of the failure. Those of you who do protest the corrupt and failed state of your church are only protesting the symptoms and therefore you are not taking the symptoms back to cause. And, the Orthodox do not like me telling them that one bit, for the most part. You all need to consider getting over yourselves and for the purposes of finding solution outside of yourselves.
Orthodox, this is for you and it is not against you. I am only pointing out how you are against yourselves. That’s it. The choice is all yours to make. You can either find the solution inside of yourselves or you can look outside of yourselves to Christ alone as your solution.
Failure disagrees and it has to or it would have to face the cause of its failure.
Ashley Nevins
Orthodox, Christ alone is the confrontation and Christ alone is the solution in the Gospels and it
is not doctrinal confusion. Relevancy is not confusion or it would not be relevancy. Failure is the confused state of the Orthodox who in their confused state of corruption cannot find solution. The Orthodox are confused as to what the cause of their failure is and its solution or they would be found not confused about what Christ-centered church relevancy is.
I am not asking you to embrace Martin as your solution. I am asking you to think Christ-centered Lordship as the center of authority of your church to solution. Yes, that would result in a structure and system change away from what fails you, but it will not make you revolutionary Protestant.
Totalism is top down power and control by dictatorship power and control. If you cannot see how God has knocked out the props of that power and control out from under you then you are missing it. Unless your church is in absolute power and control by state and church it is found failed and since it can only be found successful where it is in absolute power and control that is telling of why it fails when the props are knocked out from under you. The emperor dictatorship Orthodoxy is the dictator without cloths in the reality of the modernity world where Christ as relevancy salvation exists outside of your irrelevancy Orthodox salvation failure.
For instance, the OCA is really the only truly independent jurisdiction in America. It cannot stand up on its own two feet and walk, let alone run to success. The solution it applied to its collapse is the problem itself. Jonah has the most profound respect for those bishops of corruption who were on stage with him at his appointment. Don’t believe me? Go back and listen to his speech. Everyone missed that except quess who? ME. I think for myself and so I can listen for myself. All in attendence of that meeting were allowing the failure to again think for them. It’s the same in EVERY Orthodox jurisdiction. Now Jonah has a new vision for them that is going to lead them out of their failure. The vision is based upon totalism theology top down power and control no matter how it is spun. Circular is the OCA vision that is not going to lead to solution.
OCA = God and God = OCA and it fails over and over because of that. That is self centered, self protective and self sufficient idolatry of itself and self idolatry is the sure failure of a church. Continue to hold yourselves up as Gods only true truth Christians and see where that self idolatry leads you. Can you see where it has led you? You alone are right and Christ alone is not your solution because you alone are your own right solution. Christian logic exposes your failure and the denial of that failure. Period.
The solution is outside of all you. The OCA failure is the failure of all Orthodox jurisdictions from the same theological systemic cause.
John, you are right, my spiritual gift is prophesy as well as exhortation, administration and discernment. My personality type wired into me by God is ENTJ. I am a no nonsense thinking for himself in Christ’s Lordship Christian and I do not win popularity contests for it. I am not ashamed of the Gospels as solution. The shame based church is ashamed of the Gospels and it abuses by shame that shames Christ in the Gospels and therefore it is found failed by its shame basis that shames the church into failure. Now, why don’t you all disagree and argue about who and what I am and so you don’t have to go to cause. Let’s go off into the Twight Zone of Orthodox rabbit trail circular. Yes, let’s debate if my spiritual gifts are from God since I am not of Gods one true church the EOC and whose spiritual gifts are leading it to solution that does not go circular without solution in failure. After that maybe we can debate whether or not I understand who I am in Christ by identity, worth, value, meaning, purpose and calling in Christ who is my salvation and that is not Orthodox salvation. I am not an unworthy sinner like I hear countless Orthodox say they are. I am worthy by my salvation that is my identity and it is Christ the armor of God who makes me worthy. Satan is shame that is unworthy and Christ the armor of God is the offensive attact against that Satanic lie by His price paid for my salvation. One is pride that is unworthy and one is humility that is worthy. Yes, Orthodox QUESTION my salvation and compare it to yours by your objective only Gods true truth standard of objective salvation measure. My redemption out of slavery is my idenity that does not put me into a dead religion that is in slavery to what kills it and then calls that dead state my only true salvation. Orthodox, you are only alive as your salvation is alive to you. Real salvation makes the dead come alive. I know that from personal experience in my own salvation that is in personal relationship experience with the living God called Jesus Christ. Orthodox, do I seem dead religion dead to you or Christ is alive to you???
The whole of the EOC can collapse and I do not think that will lead you to find solution. I believe your theology that is the structural and systemic failure of your church will be applied to that collapse causing you not to get back up with relevancy. The fact is that the EOC has collapsed by its failure and in its failure to find solution. Every failure you have has failure applied to it as solution and so your circular fail over and over and again and again without solution. All of you are in denial of the collapse by the theology that denies it is the cause of the collapse. You have reached the point of no return by your theology and its resulting structure and system and the only way your can reverse that is by Christ alone as your solution.
What works with your competition works because it is Christ alone centered. What causes your church failure is man alone centered. In your failure you fail to see the theological systemic connection that is leading all Orthodox jurisdictions into failure and not just the GOA. I read between the lines of the 2010 Orthodox census to that logical conclusion by Christ-centered Lordship reasoning.
Understand why you all avert your eyes and you will understand how totalism mind control is what controls your eyes from seeing why that you fail. If you stop averting your eyes by only focusing your eyes on the symptoms you will continue to fail because your eyes are not seeing the causation of the failure that the symptoms will take you back too. Mind control controls what the eyes see and mind control never sees the mind control it is under. Rational Christian reasoning that can research facts by thinking for itself in those facts is how I came to that conclusion denied by all of you. None of you really believe the failure is as serious as I tell you that it is by the facts of the failure and what those facts point back to as the cause of the failure.
Yes, I know. Many of you think me somewhat extreme in my analysis. Christ alone is your extreme solution to your extreme failure as a church. The radical Christ is your radical solution. Your church simply is not radical for Christ because He is not the Lordship center of authority in your church. You are instead found failed by your idol god who leads you all into failure and just like failure is his person and character. The God who leads you will lead you to success or failure and it is obvious who is leading your church into failure. In fact, the failure has such a bondage grip on your minds your minds cannot conceptually conceive that the theology and its resulting structure and system is failure. The bondage tells you it is your only solution and you follow it right over the cliff in into irrelevancy and insignificance. You are really only relevant and significant to yourselves and that is failure that is the collapse you deny.
You can still exist and be collapsed. You will exist in a collapsed state of survival existence and that is exactly what the EOC is doing if you have the Christ-centered discerning eyes to see. From your totalism mind set and from the position of failure that mindset creates I fully understand why you deny both the cause of the collapse and its solution. Challenging all of you to think for yourselves is found very challenging for all of you to do and I know why.
This not a Protestant vs. Orthodox argument with me. It is a Lordship of Christ vs. the totalism bondage of man confrontation with me. I am only pointing out that Christ alone is the solution to the idolary causing your church failure and that is its collapse. You all believe that your Gods alone right and one true church is its self solution to itself. I am telling you that is idolatry leading you into a collapsed failure in your own power that denies the power of Christ alone to provide you with true salvation solution.
Yes, go ahead and disagree and talk, talk, talk about all other things except finding Christ-centered solution that works. Talk about me and not Christ as your only solution to avoid the solution that you all deny is the solution and I will continue to tell you to look to Christ alone as your solution. I am not the discussion here. Christ as your only solution is the discussion and that is why I keep pointing you to Christ alone as your solution.
Sincere Orthodox you are not the solution to your church inside of your church. That solution exists outside of your failure and it is the Christ who leads a church to relevancy in our generation and like He was relevancy in His generation and like He is not relevancy to our generation through your church and like the Sanhedrin was not relevancy to the generation Christ was relevancy in. All of you believe you are something you are not by comparing yourselves to yourselves and you do that because you believe you are Gods only alone right truth in salvation. Your salvation is your failure and it is the cause of the spiritually bankrupt state of your church clearly seen from outside of you.
Orthodox, denying the cause of the failure will not keep your from failing. That is like denying that Satan does exist and that will somehow protect you from him if you do.
That is for you and not against you. This is not a I win and you lose discussion with me. I am not here to win and because Christ alone is your only winning solution. I see the loser state of your church and that is what I speak too. You have already lost and because you continue to exist you do not believe you have lost. Come out of your nice and comfortable parish and look again with eyes that can truly see the depth of the failure that is the collapse of your church. A survival existence state of church is a collapsed state of church in comparison to relevancy Christianity that defines relevancy much differently than your church failure does.
The fact that you don’t believe your church is collapsed and that really only the GOA is in the verge of collapse tells me you that you do not know what a collapsed church is and looks like. Yes, it is possible that the GOA looks more failed than your particular jurisdiction. Pull the covers off of any OC jurisdiction and the candy coat will not hide the rotten failure inside. I promise they are all this corrupt, failed and collapsed once you pull the covers to see. I see right through the covers hiding the failure of all jurisdictions. I compare you to Christ in the Gospels and not to each other like you all do.
I do not see you as Gods stand alone and alone right and one true truth objective standard of Christian meaure that all outside of you is compared against. When failure compares itself to failure it will fail. When success is compared to failure you can see why failure is found failed and it does not work the other way around contrary to failed Orthodox opinion.
The failure is pride that goes before the collapse and it is not Christ leading you by humilty to soluton that would lead you to relevancy success in our generation. Pride is its own solution and it rejects humility as the solution. Your theology is pride and not humility and that is why your church fails by the theology turning all of you into its pride by ways and means you do not see. I am sure that upsets some of you when I don’t hold back from telling the cause of the failure. Love is the confrontation, Orthodox. It is tough real world love coming from where Chirst really lives in the real world as relevancy to our generation.
You can measure the degree of the Orthodox failure by the degree of its pride that denies the humble Jesus as its solution. You are far more failed than you believe that you are and because failure at this level cannot see the level of its failure for the level of it denial that matches the level of its failure.
Yes, I know, you disagree with most all that I tell you and especially the most important part of all being how and why totalism theology leads to the total failure of a church. Failure = collapse and like collapse = failure. Oh, but that can only really happen in the GOA, right?
There are no other jurisdictions in quite its failed state and just like the EOC is not found quite in its failed state. That is circualar without solution thinking that keeps the circular failure a failure. That is failure to see the theological systemic connecting cause that is the failure of you all. The GOA is failed, but not the jurisdiction you are in? I KNOW BETTER.
I am on your side Orthodox by being on the side of Christ alone as salvation solution that will save your church from its totalism salvation that is its failure. You are but an inch away from seeing the cause and it solution. That inch might as well be a universe away from all of you and because you are only dealing in symptoms and not cause. The last inch is taking the symptoms back to cause. Your denial still refuses to do that and therefore your church will continue to fail by the cause of its failure denied by all of you and for the cause being your denial.
Yes, I know. In the Orthodox Mind most of my grammer fails me for it not being Orthodox alone right correct and one true Orthodox truth that tells you are not failed. Thank you, John, for the support you can agree with and its OK with me if you disagree on other issues. Orthodox, most all of you have your hearts in the right place. The issue is turning your good Christian hearts into relevancy that leads people to Christ as their salvation. May the joy of the Lord in the assurance of your salvation motivate you all to love others to salvation. The world all around you and outside of you can know you are Orthodox Christians by your love and only if you really love others to their salvation.
This in my not Orthodox opinion is the best Orthodox website of its kind found anywhere in your church. I say that because it exposes the problems like no other site does, other than Pokrov. This website has potential to find the cause and the solution to what fails your church if those things are not denied. George is a stand up Christian man who is worthy of respect from any Christian Orthodox or not. He is very close to finding the cause and the solution and I hope that he does to his credit for the sacrifice his stand makes in his church. He is not winning any popularity contests in the EOC and I bet most EOC ignore what he is communicating to them for how he does not mince words. I flat dig George and in my mind it is OK if we agree to disagree and that holds true from me to all of you.
Warning: if you enable corruption you will become the corruption you enable in time and when you do you will be found circular without solution by the corruption used as the solution and that is the point of no return from corruption as you only solution that denies holy Christ as your only solution.
You have been fairly warned.
Pray for the victims in NY and pray that the GOA is humbled to solution. I am praying that all of you are humbled to solution no matter what jurisdiction you are found in. The humility is going to be painful in the extreme. I promise that is your only solution to find Christ as your only solution.
May Christ’s salvation lead you all to solution before Christ returns,
Ashley Nevins
Christ is never alone, faith is never alone, the Gospel is never alone.
John,
It’s your choice to read or not read, and yes I can cut it down to 800 and will. I repeat myself sometimes because the Orthodox have a hearing problem that leads to their not hearing the depth and width of the crash of their church.
It is like they are standing next to a nuclear explosion and denying the explosion and the loud noise it makes. Yet, the radiation from the bomb going off inside of their church is unseen killer killing the church and the Orthodox deny the cause of the radiation sickness killing them.
I was done with my line of thought brought forward anyway and will wait until the next release of information on the NY monastery issues before I post again and I will keep it to 800 or less since that is what you need or want to process the post. We can discuss the failure of the GOA again when new information is released on the 40+ victims of this abuse or how the church is handling it all.
Heads up, as the stories of the abuse come out I will post how the church is to bring healing solution to them that it does not understand how to bring to them and why it does not understand how to bring it to them. It will be a interesting and thought provoking 800 words. I promise most all of you will find something to disagree with when I do and that will make the conversation that more interesting. You all will speak from inexperince with victims and churches found in this state and I will speak from experience with victims and helping churches find solution out of this state.
I fully understand how church recovery works from something like this debacle and its starts with bringing healing solution to the victims and I fully understand how a church is to bring that solution to them. The GOA is not an bottom up and open system processed based church. It is a top down and closed rigid legalisms based church. A closed church system closes out solution to those it abuses and an open system church opens solutions to the abused. The differences between the two types of churches are huge when it comes to supplying healing solution that works.
I promise, the GOA will not bring them healing solution, but the victims will bring them into court as a part of their healing solution. Confronting the abuser who will not allow himself to be confronted is the victims in court facing off with the abusers and winning the face off. That will help them in their recovery. The GOA hierarchy is going to show its true colors when in court and like it has out of court by the abuses it causes and does not stop. God is exposing how all of this goes right to the top and now let’s see how the GOC laity handles it all and like they handled Katinas and that Athos land scandal in Greece. No bishop heads rolled over Katinas, but the heads of the victims did roll to protect the hiearchy.
The EP’s head needs to roll or the heads of the victims will role to protect him. God is done with him and this church by how it places corruption over the innocent victims to self protect itself from its sin of placing the penis of monks and clergy into the orifices of the youth of the church. Is that gross or what when it is stated in such truthful terms?
Time to wake up GOA laity, these men are destroying your church from the top down and inside out and all of you are EXSPENDABLE to their self protections and lusts. That is your worth and value to the Lord in their eyes and the totalism theology is the set up of their view of your worth and value before the Lord by how it makes them idols of religious addiction to power and control you all codependently bow too in their known corruptions. Really, if I don’t say another word I have said what you all really need to hear. So, I might not be back for more of the denial. I will pray about it.
I hear the point you are making and agree. Too long are the posts replies. Yes, I have a tendency to be too prolific in explanation.
My apologies. Thank you, for your input. Appreciated.
Bye, bye, for now.
All the best,
Ashley Nevins
Ashley, no need to apologize. We need your witness, it’s just that it would be easier to read if it was contained to 5-6 paragraphs.
George,
I just saw this reply from a few days ago and will now make a response. I take no pleasure is this confrontation and like I take no pleasure in the destruction of children by Christians. These children are the future of the GOA and by their treatment I know there is no future for the GOA. If you destroy children created in the image of God you have destroyed the image of who and what God truly is among you. Another image of a false God then is in rule over your church and the church goes corrupt, failed, irrelevent and dead. The church takes on the character of its god by allowing that character to be the norm of the church accepted and it is accepted or the church would not be found in this dying state.
When a church devours its youth that church is over. It will then try to destroy children outside of it to feed its lusts. It will destroy anyone who is in it and anyone unfortunate to unknowingly be on its path of self destruction or who unknowingly falls into its spiders web. Those inside the destruction will not see it coming and will not see how destroyed that they truly are. Any youth you are able to draw into the church from the outside will be made the abusive and abandoning failure that the GOA is. You will become your own vengence of God come to you by your self destruction of youth. The consequences are telling all of you what is the cause of this and the church inability to find solution is telling all of you the cause of all of this.
The Orthodox do not listen. They only listen to themselves because they believe they are Gods alone right and only one true truth Christians with the only true salvation from God being their church. That is triumphant grandiosity in self righteousness that is the pride that refuses to change from the cause of this attitude. I repeat this theme and the cause of your church failure because the Orthodox do not listen. Yes, that makes my posts longer and at the same time if you read them everyone of them will reveal a new truth not discussed by the laity of your church that will point to the cause and to the solution.
Bringing out how and why the EP, Archbishop, bishops, priests, monks and laity all together either abuse or enable the abuse of children is not a brief explanation because the Orthodox do not listen to the explanation by their knee jerk reaction being we are right and how dare you point out our wrongs since you are not one of us. That’s the point. If I am not one of you and see this what is that telling your church about what it is not seeing? The GOA is out of excuses like it is out of solutions. That is not a brief explanation of how and why that it is, but since you request it I will work harder in the future to keep my posts shorter from this point forward.
I know that you, George, want to find solution and you are one of only a very few in the entire of the EOC who really do no matter how many say they want to find solution too. Yes, we disagree on some issues. We are two different kinds of Christianity and so that is expected. Iron sharpens iron to solution. It’s in the Bible. The Orthodox talking out of both sides of their mouths by saying they want solution and then not doing anything to really find solution is why I am in their faces with many words of confrontation that tell them over and over what the cause of the problem is and what the consequences are. Weak kneed and mealy mouth milk toast religious codependents who are carnal spiritual coward whimps don’t find solution. Iron does. The Orthodox love to talk about their problems in a circular fashion without end and like a backed up toilet all over the floor, but they do not talk about WHY and HOW they are powerless to solve the problems that are quite literally destroying the EOC. The sewage all over the floor reeks and the Orthodox cannot find the cause of the backed up toilet. Hey, I told you this in five paragraphs!
Ashley Nevins