Everyone is currently abuzz because the OCU announced a joint liturgy with Lutherans at European Trinity where people will be able to “confess and receive Holy Communion.”
However, this is really the third time this has happened. It began December 25, 2022 when members of the former UOC-KP community said the liturgy with the Lutherans is “our new European Christmas, unity and mutual enrichment of the two Christian worlds.”
“Well, isn’t that special.”
Even more worthy of note, Metropolitan Neophytos, of Morphou of the Orthodox Church of Cyprus, thinks there is an “experiment” being conducted in Ukraine with the focus of making West Ukraine Uniate (Catholic), presumably with Bartholomew’s full knowledge and approval.
“In an interview published on the UOJ’s YouTube channel, Metropolitan Neophytos said that one of the reasons why churches are being destroyed in Ukraine concerns the socio-political situation.
The enemies know that Orthodox people, families, and communities unite around the temple. And they say: here I have destroyed the temple, killed the priest, intimidated the bishop, and people will simply leave. When they have no temple, and no possibility to celebrate the Divine Liturgy, they will move to other, safer places. This is their plan,” says the bishop.
In his opinion, the people who are behind the destruction of churches in Ukraine “do not want the presence of Orthodoxy in all of Western Ukraine, they do not want Orthodox people to live there. They want the Uniates to be left there. And you will see that a structure will be created there that has never been seen before.
“They want to conduct an experiment in Ukraine. They want to make all of Western Ukraine Uniate. And then our Athonite brothers, the bishops who are now concelebrating with the OCU, will be surprised. They will see that the Epifaniy’s associates will serve with the Uniates,” said Metropolitan Neophytos.
According to him, “then they will have to think hard: have you ever seen Onuphry concelebrating with the Uniates? Maybe, Onuphry participated in some common event with them but never in their liturgy, never in communion with them. It is impossible to imagine such a thing.” https://spzh.news/en/news/74027-cypriot-church-bishop-they-want-to-make-western-ukraine-uniate
If this is true, and Western Ukraine is to become Uniate, has Bartholomew joined us to the Catholic Church without a tomos, a letter, an encyclical or even a casual warning? Did he bother to discuss it with Metropolitan Onufriy, the lawful primate of Ukraine?
Interestingly, the OCU and the UGCC almost simultaneously switched to a new calendar which was to be the important “first step” in our unity with Rome.
Consider, too, Bartholomew’s message to Pope Francis on the occasion of his 10th anniversary of his election to the papacy, dated Mar 12, 2023:
It is a special honour and a deep joy for me to express my most sincere congratulations to my beloved brother, Pope Francis, on the occasion of the tenth anniversary of his election as the first bishop of our sister Church of Rome.
Over these ten years, our friendship and collaboration, especially in the ministry of bringing comfort and peace to all God’s people, and in the mandate to promote care and healing for all God’s Creation, have brought us closer together in our common conviction and commitment to see the face and welcome the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the least of our suffering brothers and sisters.
Dear Brother Francis, we appreciate the priorities of your leadership, applaud the prudence of your actions and admire the progress of your mandate.
Personally, I look forward to sharing the next steps of your blessed journey as we approach the historic commemoration and extraordinary celebration of the First Ecumenical Council of Nicaea, where the main articles of our Christian Creed were formulated.
Lest anyone think the move with the Lutherans in Germany and the plan to make Western Ukraine Uniate has nothing to do with Bartholomew (i.e. Epiphany’s gone rogue), it is instructive to remember the following analysis provided by Orthodox Christianity regarding the tomos given to the OCU:
The tomos’ most painful provision may perhaps be the requirement that the OCU refrain from creating its own structures outside of Ukraine. Not a single one of the previously-issued tomoi had such requirements. In the tomos from January 5, however, it is clearly stated that the jurisdiction of the OCU is limited to the territory of Ukraine. The Metropolitan of Kiev “cannot place bishops or found parishes outside the state.” All ecclesiastical structures existing outside the borders of Ukraine should henceforth come under the jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople.
Here it is necessary to explain that under the “Orthodox diaspora” it is customary to include all Orthodox residing in territories where local Orthodox churches do not exist (this is primary Western Europe and America). The Patriarchate of Constantinople considers the spiritual nourishment of Orthodox believers in these territories to be its exclusive right.
In other words, everything Epiphany does remains under the providence of Bartholomew:
His All-Holiness Bartholomew I, Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch of the Church of Constantinople, and “first among equals” in the Orthodox Church, is 100% responsible for all of it.
Per usual.
So I have a question. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR THE BISHOPS TO RESPOND? Communing with the Lutherans who have underscored their commitment to walk together with Rome through the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity and the Lutheran World Federation?
Or maybe undermining the canonical Church in Ukraine by making West Ukraine Uniate?
ARE THEY EVER GOING TO ACT?
Because if the answer is no perhaps we should start petitioning our various patriarchates to sever our relationship with those who are not committed to protecting the Orthodox Church. This is the most important job they have and so far, they are failing to act.
***
OCU and Lutherans on the way to unity?
27 May 21:013449
Joint “liturgy” of representatives of the OCU and the Lutherans of Germany. Photo: Facebook The OCU community in Hamburg has performed several joint “worship services” with Germany’s Lutherans, but there is no response from the OCU leadership to this fact. Why?
On May 28, 2023, a joint “liturgy” of representatives of the OCU and Lutherans of Germany will be held in Hamburg. The “priest” of the Dumenko structure invited his parishioners to this “service”, promising them “confession” and “communion”. Note that the Hamburg Orthodox Lutheran “worship” is far from the first one – something similar happened at Christmas and Easter. However, there has been no reaction from the leadership of the OCU so far. Why?
Western Ukraine will be Uniate
In his interview to the UOJ, Metropolitan Neophytos of Morphou said that some kind of experiment is taking place in Western Ukraine, the purpose of which is to completely oust the canonical Church from the region in order to bring its population to union.
In his opinion, the people behind the destruction of churches in Ukraine “do not want the presence of Orthodoxy in all of Western Ukraine, they do not want the Orthodox to live there. They want only Uniates to remain. And you will see that there will be a structure that has never been seen before.”
“They want to make an experiment in Ukraine. They want to convert the whole of Western Ukraine into Uniate. And then our brothers from the Holy Mount, the bishops who will now serve with the OCU, will be surprised. They will see Epifaniy serve with the Uniates,” said Metropolitan Neophytos.
They do concelebrate.
Let us remind you of some of the most resonant “concelebrations” with Catholics (Uniates and Catholics are one structure), not only representatives of the OCU, but also its leadership.
For example, on October 14, 2019, in the city of Varash, in the altar of an Orthodox church, the Catholic priest Vasyl Plakhotka prayed together with Epifaniy Dumenko and other members of the OCU.
On November 4, 2019, in the village of Hermakivka, Ternopil region, the rector of the local church of the OCU Volodymyr Stefanko prayed at the festive service of the UGCC together with the Uniate Bishop Dmytro Hryhorak and Greek Catholic clergy.
On October 14, 2022, the “archbishop” of the OCU, Nestor Pysyk, and other representatives of the OCU concelebrated with the rector of the Catholic Church of St. Sophia in Pidvolochysk Petro Savchak.
We have no doubt that all these cases of joint “worship” are just the tip of the iceberg that has come to the attention of the media. In fact, the situation is much worse than it seems. And this is no wonder given the position of the leadership of the UGCC, OCU, RCC and Phanar.
OCU, UGCC and union
For several years now, both Shevchuk and Dumenko have been saying that the UGCC and the OCU should unite. Thus, Dumenko stated back in 2019 that “in the future we (the OCU and the UGCC – Ed.) will look for those points of contact that will unite us.” Dumenko’s position was endorsed by Shevchuk, who noted that “the road map that His Beatitude Epifaniy spoke about is nothing but our definite intentions to serve our people together. And to develop the tradition of the once united, but today, unfortunately, divided Kievan Church. Because today we can already become a union.”
Today we can say that the first steps towards this middle ground have already been taken – the OCU and the UGCC almost simultaneously switched to a new calendar and from now on will celebrate Christmas and other holidays together. Actually, this decision was hardly dictated by the desire of these structures to be “away from Moscow”, but by their desire to be closer to Rome.
The fact is that in 2025, Phanariots and Catholics have scheduled a joint celebration of Easter. By this date, probably, the rapprochement is planned not only for the Phanar and Rome, but, first of all, for the OCU and the UGCC.
This fact is recognized even by the pro-Uniate telegram channels, which write that “there is a desire of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope to celebrate Easter together and dedicate it to the anniversary of the First Ecumenical Council. There is a tendency towards unification and the creation of a United Ukrainian Church… Will the OCU not meet the wishes of the Ecumenical Patriarch? Moreover, the idea of uniting with the UGCC is already sparkling in the air, which, in turn, will not go against the wishes of the pope.”
Indeed, neither the OCU nor the UGCC will dare to object to their masterminds if the latter order to unite. The same Dumenko stated that “the key to the union of the OCU and the UGCC is not in Ukraine, but in Rome and Constantinople.”
In addition, the curators themselves show their subordinates an example of “respect” and striving towards each other. It will suffice to recall the prayer of Patriarch Bartholomew in the Catholic abbey of Belgium, Notre-Dame de Saint-Remy in Rochefort.
Therefore, the joint “liturgies” of the Orthodox and the Uniates no longer cause surprise or resistance within both structures (OCU and UGCC). Likewise, the attempts of the OCU to move closer to the Lutherans are no wonder. Moreover, the Phanariots have been making advances to the Lutherans for a long time.
Phanar and Lutherans
For example, on September 29, 2022, the Finnish Archdiocese of the Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland signed a joint baptismal declaration. This declaration not only acknowledges the “grace” of Lutheran baptism, but also says that “the Orthodox Church and the Evangelical Lutheran Church have common roots in the undivided Christianity of the first millennium”, but “subsequently, the doctrine was developed so that we have different ideas about Baptism and how it is performed.”
Lutherans are heretics. Not schismatics or something else, but heretics. In addition, back in 1986, the Lutherans of the same Finland approved the female priesthood (by 2013, the number of “female pastors” in Finland already amounted to 50% of the total number of clergy, while in 2010, the Lutherans of Finland ordained their first “bishopess”).
In 2017, Lutherans shared the “rejoice” over the “equal marriage” law, i.e. recognized LGBT marriages. The ROC immediately broke off the dialogue with them. Interestingly, Patriarch Bartholomew, in response to the Lutherans’ position on accepting homosexuality, stated that although he condemns homosexuality, he will continue the dialogue with Lutherans “on a social and theological level”.
Apparently, it is precisely within the framework of this “dialogue” that the representative of the OCU in Hamburg, Yaroslav Bogodist, performs his “service”. Albeit, he went a little further than the “social and theological level” and decided to conduct an experiment to change the very essence and understanding of the Orthodox liturgy, turning it into something incomprehensible.
OCU and Lutherans
On December 25, 2022, the “priest” of the OCU in Hamburg Bogodist announced on his Facebook page a “unique historical Christmas service”. According to Bogodist, “it is unique in that we will celebrate a joint liturgy with Pastor Kord Scholer, in which there will be two Eucharist, Orthodox and Protestant, this will be a common holiday, united in love for Christ Jesus.” How technically this “union” of the two “Eucharists” took place is unknown. Which, however, is not a big deal, because the concept of “Eucharist” for Bogodist is relative and, probably, as close as possible to the Lutheran one.
How else to explain the fact that on the day when Orthodox Christians celebrated the Resurrection of Christ, he did not serve at all? Rather, Bogodist celebrated the “Great Liturgy” the day before (on Holy Saturday) at 20.00, but on the very day of Easter he limited himself to “the consecration of Easter baskets.” Let’s leave aside the fact that the “Easter Liturgy” at eight in the evening contradicts the Gospel, the tradition of the Church and, in general, the slightest understanding about Orthodox worship in general. Such an attitude towards the liturgy on the part of the representative of the OCU is hardly surprising.
It is also not surprising that “priest” Bogodist and his community in 2023 celebrated the Resurrection of Christ according to the “European Easter” together with the Lutherans, on April 9, a week earlier than Orthodox Christians around the world. Apparently, the “priest” of the OCU from Hamburg matured to the point of changing the calendar even earlier than his superiors in Kyiv.
Actually, in relation to other “things”, this advanced representative of the Dumenko structure is working ahead of the curve. For example, in terms of LGBT. It will just suffice to take a look at this photo with one of the Lutheran pastors, who has a scarf around his neck in colors characteristic of homosexuals.
Be that as it may, we are witnessing the process of the rapid creation in Ukraine of a new structure that will include all the religious diversity of Europe – from Catholics to Protestants of various stripes. This structure should become a platform to serve for the final merging of Catholicism with the Phanariots. Perhaps it is for this reason that the Tomos, which Patriarch Bartholomew handed over to Dumenko, does not say that the Church being created in Ukraine will be called “Orthodox”. Instead, it enunciates the establishment of the “Holy Church of Ukraine”, since according to its masterminds, it will be devoid of Orthodoxy.
https://spzh.news/en/zashhita-very/74034-ocu-and-lutherans-on-the-way-to-unity
You really, really do have to wonder this. At what point has the boiling point been reached?
Same here in America with Elpi, after all that he has done, what else could he possibly do to get the bishops to speak up and kick him out. I mean if you really think about it his errors are so numerous that at this point communing with Catholics would actually be one of the least scandalizing things he’s done…how sad is that.
I very much enjoy Nick over at Helleniscope, but my one critique of his is the “Elpi will be gone any day now” attitude. No he wont, or he would have already been gone. At this point I’m starting to think that he could sacrifice a baby to moloch and still wont be dispatched from his post.
But, back to the topic at hand. If parts of the OCU can commune with Lutherans, and Bart communes with them, when will the bishops speak up? Who even knows.
My guess is that they’re waiting till it’s “official” on paper. Thing is, I really doubt it will ever be official on paper, and that’s by design. If there is a solid red line in the sand it’s easier to pick sides. What they (Bart, OCU, Elpi) are doing is muddying the waters and setting fires here and there so that there is confusion.
This is no excuse though, the patriarch must get together and depose Bart. He needs to be deposed and IMHO the Ecumenical Patriarchate needs to temporarily be suppressed, if that’s even possible.
“At this point I’m starting to think that he could sacrifice a baby to moloch and still wont be dispatched from his post.” Well, he certainly enables abortion, so in many ways, he may have already sacrificed to Moloch.
“…Elpi, after all that he has done, what else could he possibly do to get the bishops to speak up and kick him out.”
One assumes you mean kicked out of the AOB. As a practical matter, the one who holds his office cannot be removed. The bishops can remove themselves, but they cannot remove him from the AOB. It is built into the bylaws that the one who holds his office serves as chairman of the assembly.
Personally, I wish they would remove themselves and re-form an assembly. It would be fitting for one who pursues emptiness to preside as chairman over an assembly that has been emptied of all those bishops who refuse to pursue emptiness.
Or it would be better to just disband it.
Good observation, Petros.
I assume that you mean “patriarchs”, plural. One disadvantage of having a confederation of Orthodox local Churches with their patriarchs and metropolitans and archbishops is that there is no central locus of absolute authority. Our Lord himself chose 12 apostles, not just Peter, to diffuse the authority, so that no one man, whether he be a Francis or a Bartholomew, would be able to arrogate unto himself all power and glory. All or most of the esteemed hierarchs are therefore left with the cumbersome task of listening to the Holy Spirit and then acting in accordance with his will. Conciliar church polity is very inefficient, but it contains within itself certain failsafes. It would appear that the Holy Spirit is speaking in no uncertain terms right now. Wouldn’t it be nice if all of the bishops of the world would get their act together and assemble in person on the 17th centenary of the Nicene Council? Then they could defrock Bartholomew, Elpidophoros and Epiphany and give the Constantinopolitan Patriarchate a “time-out” for a decade or so. They could settle the issue of rapprochement with the Oriental Orthodox, the Catholics and other Christians, and there is so much more that they could do to answer the burning questions of the day.
Well, in addition to everything else that’s bad about the OCU, just more evidence of their diabolical nature!
“Has Bartholomew Joined Us to the Catholic Church?”
He has no authority or earthly power to even be able to do something like joining the Orthodox to the Catholic Church…. Orthodox Christian ecclesiology does not operate according to the Roman Catholic top-down papal ecclesiology that so many Western Christians project onto the Orthodox faith. Orthodox ecclesiology is conciliar…. No recent Orthodox ecumenical council has given Patriarch Bartholomew such authority…..
By the same token, the sometimes-mentioned mutual “lifting of the anathemas” in 1965 that Patriarch Athenagoras did with Pope Paul VI makes no sense from an Orthodox ecclesiology perspective….. Patriarch Athenagoras had no authority to speak on behalf of the entire Orthodox faith unless that authority to speak on behalf of the Church to lift the anathemas was given to him by an ecumenical council.
In 1965, the vast majority of the world’s Orthodox Christians — including the vast majority of Orthodox ordained clergy and bishops — were under active persecution behind the Iron Curtain. For Patriarch Athenagoras to claim that he spoke for “all Orthodox Christians” in 1965 is completely nonsensical. He spoke for only the Patriarchate of Constantinople and its affiliated jurisdictions (i.e., Greek Orthodox in North/South America, Australia, etc.).
The 1965 “anathema lifting” gesture by Patr Athenagoras and Pope Paul VI was a P.R. photo op, nothing more.
Thank you Gail for clearly illustrating the distortions and confusion being inflicted on the Body. By way of our baptism we are all co-responsible for the Church … write, speak, discuss this with your priest, Bishop and all the brethren even if it seems futile. At a recent gathering with an Abbot, he lamented that the situations is getting worse and a false union is very much a possibility. This was hard to hear but helpful, and all the more reason to speak up for the love of Brother and Sister – confess the truth so that they are not lost to confusion when/if a schism occurs. A priest once told me “the Faithful will save the Church with God’s help”, we have to do our part and pray the Confessors do theirs.
Well, the Church of Russia (including the ROCOR) have separated themselves from the travesty through severing communion. The other jurisdictions that wish to remain Orthodox should do the same.
I’ve heard even OCA priests in the DOS say that the canonical prohibition of prayer with heretics and schismatics refers only to joint liturgy and intercommunion. Nothing could be further from the truth. You don’t need a canon to tell you that. You need a canon to tell you not to put yourself on the road to Uniatism.
This is why I draw the line at the Church Calendar. Those on the Julian calendar are much less likely to indulge in such behavior and that seems to me to be an earmark of the True Church.
Isn’t this why some Orthodox Christians made the calendar such an issue? Wasn’t it that they didn’t think it was just about the calendar, but that the calendar change would become a slippery slope to further compromises?
This is correct. I believe it was Elder Ephraim in an epistle in defense of the new calender asked “Have we become Franks”? ( by adopting the Gregorian). Unfortunately it seems so, or we are definitely headed in that direction. What many don’t know is the phrase, “We will not become Franks” was used by the Greeks in defense of the old calender. In the late 1920s the Holy Apostles Church in the ancient Agora in Athens reverted back to the old calender after icons began streaming (weeping) myhrr soon after New calender Christmas. They told the bishop, “we will not become Franks!”
In my opinion, the biggest issue with the Church calendar drama is the in-our-faces reality that the Holy Spirit does not divide the Church. And that’s all the new/revised Julian calendar (RJC) has done, is divide. That’s how we know it’s not of the Holy Spirit, in my opinion.
Every single time the “new calendar” has been instituted, those pushing for it had known that it would divide the Church, yet it was done anyway. In 1923 in Istanbul/C’ple, they knew that the massive Russian Church was suffering at the hands of the communists and had no input into the calendar decision at their 1923 so-called council…. yet they moved forward with the new calendar push anyway, knowing that it would divide the Church. (This was around the same time that C’ple recognized the fake and short-lived “Living Church” in Russia, throwing Patriarch Tikhon under the bus, but that’s another story……)
When Slavic churches in North America later in the 20th century “forced” the New Calendar on their people, man we all know the divisions that this drama caused.
Plus, the two biggest arguments in favor of the new calendar historically have been: (1) it makes the Western Christians (i.e., mostly the Anglicans) not think we are so weird and we hope they’ll like us more, and (2) it is easier for Orthodox Christians in the West to celebrate Christmas.
Both are really lame arguments, in my opinion.
Adopting the new/RJC did not increase most Western Christians’ affinity for Orthodox Chrisitianity… most simply kept on ignoring the Orthodox faith…. just sayin’
I’ve also read that the push for the new/RJC in the 1920s was done at the behest of British influence in Istanbul/C’ple, with the goal of dividing the Orthodox Church…. to draw the Greek Churches closer to the West and leaving the persecuted Slavic churches to their own affairs. Not sure how true this statement is, but it certainly could be. We see the downstream ramifications of this divide-and-conquer policy still today.
If the Orthodox Churches want to shift en masse to the new/RJC, then fine I’m all for it, but it needs to be done properly, at a full Church council with the blessing of the Holy Spirit…. with the discussion and arguments (and maybe fist fights? – haha) that this process entails.
The Finnish Orthodox Church has celebrated Pascha on Western Easter since 1921.
https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/06/the-date-of-orthodox-easter-in-finland.html?m=1#:~:text=The%20Orthodox%20Church%20of%20Finland&text=Under%20the%20complex%20political%20circumstances,began%20to%20celebrate%20Western%20Easter.
…care to tell us the real reason, Joseph?
The Western Paschalia was not such a great goal for Bishop Herman (Aav) and the modernist Finnish Orthodox: after all, other former parts of the Russian Church had simply switched to the New Calendar, and seemed content with this.
It was the Finnish State that wanted Orthodox poplulation to follow the Paschal dates of the majority denomination (the Lutherans), and failing to do so would have meant the loss of the status of a Church of State, and – perhaps more importantly – State fundings.
So, the Finnish Orthodox would have eventually become unable to pay for the upkeep of those church buildings (like the Helsinki cathedral) built for them by those pesky Russians, and would have to relocate their Liturgies to re-purposed sauna shacks… a perspective that could well motivate offering their grain of incense to the modernist emperor.
Filthy lucre is not always the motivation for all sorts of things, but it seems quite evident that it had its fair share in this sad story.
Lies, lies, and acts of silent omission are everywhere. The GOA must be completely destroyed and rebuilt. Only Christ can do this. I think he is leading us to the truth. We must have faith in what He alone can do. I am beside myself watching the humongous amount of evil that is being unleashed in every way, shape, and form.
Christ foretold that there would be MANY deceivers and MANY deceived. Not a few, but MANY. In addition to thisChrist asked the question, “when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” He knew that when He came back, the world would be embracing a religious system filled with deceit!
He also knew that “in that day,” true faith would be almost entirely absent from the face of the earth. That day is upon us. May we remain strong in our convictions. May we keep uncovering the lies told to us. Thank you, Monomakhos for all your hard work in revealing truth.
Patriarch Bartholomew cannot join Orthodox to the Pope. He can only separate himself from the Orthodox.
It doesn’t actually say anything about intercommunion though. I think people are falsely drawing that conclusion based merely on the scarcity of details provided. I’m not sure what a joint Liturgy actually means here, but it does say that there is two different communions provided.
I do recall His Beatitude Epiphany saying in an interview that the OCU refugees in Europe are sometimes stuck in awkward situations where there is no Orthodox Church that will receive them. They are sometimes forced to use space provided by other Christian confessions.
Where does it say there were two different communions provided?
https://spzh.news/en/news/73975-ocu-announces-joint-liturgy-with-lutherans-at-european-trinity
I’m sorry if Epiphany feels it’s been awkward for him. His presence is awkward for the entire Church.
Boy howdy.
I don’t believe Metropolitan Epiphany said it was awkward for him, but rather that it was awkward for the refugees.
The link on this article that points to the previous one from last December says there was separate eucharists:
https://spzh.news/en/news/70342-ukrainian-phanariots-of-hamburg-hold-a-common-liturgy-with-lutherans
It does look highly irregular, but I would at least like to hear an explanation from whomever is overseeing this. Perhaps no one actually is overseeing it, and for all I know this priest has gone rogue.
This is the current one:
OCU announces joint liturgy with Lutherans at “European Trinity”
The OCU “priest” said that Orthodox Christians will be able to “receive Holy Communion” during a joint “service” with Lutherans.
“OCU priest” Yaroslav Bohodist has announced a joint “liturgy” with Lutherans at “European Trinity”.
Yaroslav Bohodist, the rector of the community of St Nicholas of Myra in Hamburg, has invited his parishioners on Facebook “to a common festive liturgy with the
Lutheran community” to be held on 28 May, the “European Trinity” day.
He said it would be possible to “confess” and “receive Holy Communion” during the “service”.
As earlier reported, a joint “liturgy” of representatives of the “Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the Diaspora” and Lutherans was held in Hamburg’s Lutheran St Andrew’s Cathedral on 25 December 2022.
https://spzh.news/en/news/73975-ocu-announces-joint-liturgy-with-lutherans-at-european-trinity
It’s a curious thing, and I wish more details were provided. Lutherans do have a Liturgy, but I have to wonder in this particular setting if these Lutherans actually used the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I don’t see why they couldn’t. Maybe the Lutheran priest would just use a different anaphora? I don’t know.
It’s the communing part that’s problematic. Joint liturgies are seemingly a dime a dozen these days. Bartholomew has them all the time with Pope Francis.
Many of us here on this blog have had Lutherans come visit our parishes and pray with us at Divine Liturgy. Some of those Lutherans have even later converted to Orthodoxy. Perhaps the situation of this joint liturgy (I’m just guessing) is that the Ukrainians were granted use of the space of a Lutheran church for having their Divine Liturgy, and then the Lutherans wanted to join them.
It wouldn’t work to have a Lutheran priest concelebrating at an Orthodox antimins, so perhaps the work-around was to have a separate, but simultaneous, Lutheran eucharist for those Lutherans present. They are using a Lutheran church after all. Sure, it’s still highly irregular, but I don’t believe a joint liturgy like this would happen in a consecrated Orthodox altar. Nonetheless, it’s interesting to think that maybe there are Lutherans now using the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
This has nothing to do with a “space” or “antimins,” unless Bartholomew gave them antimins for their alter which would be way out of whack even for him.
It has nothing to do with “joint liturgies” which Bartholomew has had with Pope Francis in the past.
If you read the article, which I should have included in the piece, it says, “The OCU “priest” said that Orthodox Christians will be able to “receive Holy Communion” during a joint “service” with Lutherans.” https://spzh.news/en/news/73975-ocu-announces-joint-liturgy-with-lutherans-at-european-trinity
Whenever the Eucharist is involved with the nonorthodox, whether it’s on the giving end or the receiving end, canonical barriers are being breached.
Lutherans in the Ukraine have been using a (bastardized) version of the Divine Liturgy for almost a century.
https://www.angelfire.com/ca4/saintsophiaseminary/liturgy.html
To me this is worse than even using their own made up service, because it is taking something holy and making it into a farce.
For what it’s worth, Ukrainian Lutherans didn’t arise from the Orthodox in the area—these communities split off of Uniate ones.
Also, to go off on a tangent, I find these news reports about the churches in Ukraine going new calendar “as a snub to Russia” and as a matter of “gratitude toward the West” very amusing. Quo vadis to the “anticolonial” woke crowd: what about all the brown and black Eastern Christians in Africa, the Middle East, and South Asia that have used and continue to use the Julian Calendar
since their conversion during the earliest years of Christianity, either completely free from or in resistance to Papist or Reformed colonizers? Who are the Ukrainians really snubbing?
Ukrainian Lutherans:
https://youtu.be/7XK8PSggAnA
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Lutheran_Church
So what this Lutheran church and Epiphany have in common has nothing to do with the Orthodox faith and everything to do with being Ukrainian. The OCU has placed itself in a position where they are opening up communion and redefining the parameters of the Church. Bartholomew has truly birthed a Frankenstein in Ukraine and it’s gotten loose, making itself comfortable in Europe. If the bishops do not object, it will be on their heads.
This was on Facebook which is decidedly different than how the article reads. Looks like you’re right, Joseph:
Yaroslav Bogodist
Author
Ubi Petrus a Lutheran pastor was present. communion only for Orthodox
This is a Lutheran church. Lutherans are served only by a Lutheran pastor. I conduct a service for the Orthodox
in my invitation it is written that the Lutheran community will also come, naturally this is a Lutheran church and I am glad that they are present and give us a church. they allowed icons, decorate the temple with green branches, and Lutherans came to pray that day and see how the service was going. their shepherd was also present and he made a prayer for his congregation that day
European Christianity gets creepier by the day.
I visited a Ukrainian church long ago—think it was under the EP and based in Bound Brook in NJ.
I noticed that they put more emphasis on being Ukrainian than Greeks even do on being Greek. Also thought it odd that out of all the Slav churches—Russian, Serbian, Bulgarian, even Ruthenian/Slovak Uniates and Belarusian autocephalists (yes, I went to take a look-see)—it was the only one that didn’t use Slavonic for the services. Why don’t other Slavs have a problem with Slavonic?
Even the Canonical UOC is allowing joint services with Lutherans? So, who isn’t allowing joint liturgical services with non-Orthodox these days? It goes on far more than we know, even communing monophysites. I think we know the answer, why Bishops don’t act … because they are ecumenists. We should have hundreds like Bishop Neophytos speaking up against this heresy, why don’t they speak up? Because many of them would be condemning what they themselves (and their clergy under them) have participated in or believe to be permissible.
“European Trinity”…?
France, Germany, Italy?
(Not necessarily in that order…)
Even the Uncreated God is now a phyletist.
The Uncreated God ‘believes’ in Family’
How do we know? He gave being one.
A Tribe is a Family of Families.
A Nation is a Family of Families of Families.
Members of one level are also members of the other levels.
The Uncreated God ‘believes’ in ‘Nation’.
How do we know? He chose one to be a light to the others.
The Orthodox Church is a Family of Local Orthodox Churches.
A Local Orthodox Church is a Family of Local Believers.
Whether or not the territory of a particular Local Church
should correspond to the boundaries of a particular Nation
is (I think) a matter of Administration rather than of Principle;
but in practice they probably will often coincide.
Joseph, you can’t be serious?! His ‘Beatitude’ Epiphany? Who exactly do you ‘work’ for?! (We’ve all been wondering for a very long time.)
The EP commemorates the pope in Constantinople when the latter is present, and possibly always. Ecumenists such as the EP and MP already recognize the salvific quality of Latin, Anglican and monophysite sacraments. The union is already here as a confederation of schools of christianity. We and the latins have accepted the theology of the miaphysites where the “mia” katholiki ekklesia can be interpreted as a multitude of churches working side by side. According to this theology the creed does not read “mono” (only one church) but mia ekklesia which allows for a union of plurality. The Oriental Orthodox themselves do not have mysteriological communion as they don’t vest and concelebrates in each other’s rites ( yes you’ll find a few cases in diaspora but this is not the norm). These Oriental Churches got together in 1965 at the council of Adis Ababa under King Selassie. Before this the last time they ever gathered was in 431 AD! It was a first meeting in 1600 years and they did not view each other as in communion before then due to calenders, Eucharistic differences, even christological differences on the corruptability of Christ. The Ecumenists have successfully pushed the agenda that Christianity is just a confederation of Trinitarian affirming rites.
“Rivers of water run down mine eye because they keep not the law”
This celebration seems prescient, matcbing the description of the state of affairs for the church at Thyatira in revelation 2 which prophesies of an open communion and acceptance of sexual immorality.
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
More trouble in paradise. Maybe, maybe, this is Bartholomew turning the ship around.
Also, looks like Elpi will be “celebrating” Bartholomew’s name day…again…at the Episcopal building in NYC, given that its June we can assume there will be pride flags again.
Vatican releases “Alexandria Document” based on dialogue with the Orthodox about synodality.
There are a number of positive acknowledgements in there — such as retconning many RC ecumenical councils as local councils of the Roman Patriarchate — but by the end it’s clear they’re simply not going to let the papacy go.
The one title that the Orthodox could agree with — Patriarch of the West — was dropped by Benedict in 2006.
This really makes me wonder if Bart’s new found “papal powers” are his way of forcing centralized papacy on Orthodoxy in the way that Francis is using the Orthodox to force synodality on Roman Catholicism.
All-in-all this document really isn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be.
Even if the Roman Catholics dropped papal primacy/infallibility, that’s just the tiny tip of the iceberg. How is Orthodoxy suppose to square the Divine Liturgy with your typical suburban Novus Ordo. It’s not possible.
I hate to say it but these meetings really are a waste of time. Roman Catholicism is imploding and it has been due to a self-inflicted wound via Vatican 2
Vatican II didn’t come from nowhere, the rot was set in long before that.
It was none other than rad-trad hero Pius X who nuked the RC fasting discipline, which previously looked a lot more like ours. The RC festal calendar was gutted in the mid-late 19th century. In both cases it was done to serve capitalists and industrialists, who simply could not allow the death traps they called factories to be shut down for 30 days out of the year, or their slave-like workers to have less output on fasting days. How oppressive it was for Christians to have so many days off work!
Rather than teach the proper relationship between life and work, the RCC pushed the interests of their fatcat donors every step of the way, and destroyed the spiritual life of their entire flock to do it.
(Incidentally, this is why I say the RCC is mostly to blame for our present cultural rot. The only significant cultural power bloc in the Western world was the RCC, even in a WASP country like ours it represented a huge and unfragmented section of the population, and time after time they caved to demands till there was nothing left.)
The more I learn about Pope Leo XIII and Rerum Novarum, the more I realize that the West has lost much because of Protestant industrialism. Losing the Latin Mass was the capstone in the victory of Protestantism over Catholicism.
Of course this is ironic because Protestantism is essentially dead.
Curious you should support Tridentinism at the same time as you support the Russian assault on the older, more reliable Greek language. Do you understand that politics is all about peer pressure, following the same physics of diffusion as option pricing? If you live near Tridentine Fatimist extremists, or eve Buddhist or Muslim extremist, you are more likely to seek out extremist tendencies in your own, supposedly Orthodox faith to compete and satisfy your neighbors. your beliefs, all beliefs, are a lot less rational than you think. Humans are the only creature that believe their own myths, ideologies and idolatries, than reality. This is the Apple of Edem.
Now I’m curious: What did Pius X do that changed Roman Catholic fasting practices? I only knew that they were jettisoned rather quickly beginning with the decision of Pius XII (the WWII pope) in 1953, that you could drink water and take medicine and still be counted as fasting prior to receiving the Eucharist.
Jeff: Pius X significantly liberalized fasting and holy days: https://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2021/04/how-st-pius-x-1917-code-of-canon-law.html
As the Kennedies brought Rerum Novarum and Vatican II, the Bidens must bring Rerum Tertiorarum and Vatican III