According to our friends over at Helleniscope, it appears as if Archbishop Elpidophoros cut short his trip to Istanbul to address the pension crisis that has whipped the GOA into a frenzy in his absence. Nick Stamatakis reports they have been gathering in groups all over the country to organize against the GOA’s proposed reforms.
“Basically, they are attempting a revolt against AB [sic] Elpidophoros, and some of these groups have used very scathing words in their remarks on the issue in the recent Virtual Town Hall with Elpidophoros”.
So the Virtual Town Hall didn’t go well, Elpidophoros’ journey to Istanbul was cut short and the GOA is experiencing hammer blows on multiple fronts, like the deepening financial crisis and the continuing Federal investigations. Elpidophoros has got to be feeling the heat, especially since these problems seem to be coming to a head just before the upcoming Clergy-Laity Congress (Sept 9-10).
With the GOA, there’s always more: The financial situation at Holy Cross/Hellenic College has turned especially dire. According to Byzantine, Texas, six tenured professors had to be laid off.
And then there’s our favorite soap opera, As the Stomach Turns, where we watch the fate of St Nicholas Shrine twist in the wind. Despite the recent hoopla over the reconstruction, the monies had to come from other sources. The unceremonious furloughing of the professors, was probably one such cost-cutting measure. Looking for a twofer, perhaps they hoped to staved off the closure of Holy Cross while offsetting the costs for St. Nicholas.
The sale of the Brookline campus might have raised another $20 million. That would have provided half the funds necessary for the recent start-up of the Shrine. So, too, would have been the rumored sale of three New York City parishes (also reported in Helleniscope). So far, however, the impending sale seems to have been called off, possibly due to the furor that erupted when Stamatakis broke the story a few weeks ago.
Truth be told, His Eminence has been served a dog’s breakfast ever since he was placed here in America. Fires are everywhere: the bankruptcy of the Shrine, the impending collapse of HC/HC after being slapped with provisional accreditation, and finally, the insolvency of the priests’ pension fund are almost more than anyone can chew. Bartholomew, however, had faith in his beloved Sunflower. He was sure he could quiet the natives, while cementing the Phanariote hegemony over the Episcopal Assembly.
But it was all for naught. Elpidophoros’ attempts at outreach to the broader American community have proven to be lamentable. His disastrous march holding a Black Lives Matter banner could not have set well with the laity, especially now the ugly mask is off that odious organization. This, mind you, this was during a pandemic that he believes is so severe, he prevented people from coming to Church unless they could maintain a distance of 6′ from one another, while he’s marching up and down the streets, shoulder to shoulder, with throngs of unknown people to bring attention to the plight of black people who were looting, setting fires and pushing old ladies into the street. You’d think he’d want to step back for a moment and take stock of his bewildering actions. Instead, he publicly prays for Biden’s presidency and social justice at a DNC convention, seemingly unconcerned that more traditionally minded Orthodox are already reeling from his suggestion that non-Orthodox spouses should receive Communion. At first eyebrows were raised; now alarms bells are going off as it is beginning to dawn on folks that this is really an end-run around the whole gay-marriage issue. Have a same sex marriage performed outside the Church and then receive communion with your same sex spouse.
Any one of these calamities could be the spark that ignites an all out rebellion against the maladroit leadership imposed on America by the Phanar.
However, if they don’t fix the priests’ pension fund, the rest of it is not going to matter. If what Helleniscope is reporting is accurate (and we here at Monomakhos have no reason to believe otherwise, having watched with horror as these stories have unfolded before our very eyes), then it could spell the end of both the Archbishop and increase the call for autocephaly among significant swaths of the Greek Orthodox clergy and laity.
We agree with Stamatakis that a dearth of vision on the part of the GOA is at the core of each and every issue, as he writes:
“If our Church keeps losing faithful to other Orthodox Churches or other Christian denominations at the current rate, very soon half of the priests will have no employment at all at their present parishes. And yes, the faithful are voting with their feet! They DO NOT want to deal with a corrupt church hierarchy run by some in Turkey, were the Patriarchate’s legal status is ‘a Turkish religious institution.’ Are we serious?…If we learned anything during the first year of AB Elpidophoros is that no problems will EVER be solved using the ‘Turkish/Phanariot mentality’ in America.”
Elpidophoros did not return home empty handed after his abrupt trip with Bartholomew. With him were a “bunch of ‘confidants/assistants’ from Turkey and Greece who will be installed in key positions as pawns, to control the Church when he leaves us for good to go back [to Istanbul] and he becomes a Patriarch”.
This last observation is particularly chilling. It appears that Patriarch Bartholomew has insinuated into our midsts a foreign-born cabal of celibate priests to ensure that Elpidophoros’ Phanario-centric legacy is not undone when (as is expected) the current archbishop ascends to the Constantinopolitan throne.
Unless things start changing soon, there will be nothing to stop the free fall of the GOA until it hits the ground.
“When will we realize, clergy and laity, that it is impossible for our Church to grow in such a schizophrenic situation?” Stamatakis asks
When indeed?
[Edited: 08/26/20]
And let us not forget that Elpi as much as endorsed the party of Antichrist. Watch this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d25jHoQlkQ
“And let us not forget that Elpi as much as endorsed the party of Antichrist.”
His endorsement has grown stale already, the demands of today are higher, and those of tomorrow will rise even more. As of today you’re expected to give the Black Power salute and target any whites who refuse.
Black Lives Matter Mob Surrounds Liberal Woman at DC Restaurant Screaming “White Silence is Violence!” and Demanding She Show Solidarity:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/black-lives-matter-mob-surrounds-liberal-woman-dc-restaurant-screaming-white-silence-violence-demanding-show-solidarity-video/
According to WaPo, the woman, Lauren Victor, refused to raise up her fist in solidarity because she felt like she was under attack.
Victor told WaPo that she has been marching with Black Lives Matter for weeks but she felt that something was wrong about being coerced to show support.
“In the moment, it didn’t feel right,” Victor said, adding that she also could understand their anger. “I wasn’t actually frightened. I didn’t think they’d do anything to me,” she said. “I’m very much with them. I’ve been marching with them for weeks and weeks and weeks.”
Black Colorado Man Arrested for Hate Crime After Stabbing White Man While Screaming ‘Black Lives Matter’
Black Georgia Man Who Stabbed Stranger Says He ‘Felt the Need to Find a White Male to Kill’
National Media Ignores Two Black Lives Matter Inspired Hate Crime Stabbings Against White Men… in ONE DAY
Portland Black Lives Matter: ‘A Black Person’s Life Matters More Than a White Person’s Right Now’
Cheers could be heard from the crowd following her racist proclaimation.
We all knew that was what they meant all along, based on the media’s lack of concern over cases like Cannon Hinnant and Jessica Doty Witaker, but nobody expected them to come right out and say it.
This is the real reason why the left gets so outraged over the phrases “All Lives Matter” and “It’s Okay to Be White.” It isn’t because these terms are “racist,” it is because they don’t believe it.
Portland has been rioting for three months, as their Democrat leadership ties the hands of the police and allows it to continue.
Not One Democrat Condemns Vicious Attacks on RNC Attendees Including Assaults on Lawmakers, a Sitting Senator and a Wounded Warrior
Virginia Democrats Pass Bill Reducing Assault Of Police Officer To A Misdemeanor
Black Lives Matter Mob Surround Historic DC Church, Chant ‘Burn It Down’
HuffPo White House Reporter Calls Republicans Attending Trump Speech on South Lawn, “Filthy, Diseased”
A clip of Kamala Harris speaking to Stephen Colbert in June is going viral once again, as the party attempts to pivot away from their support of the violent riots.During the interview, Harris warned Americans to “beware” because the riots were here to stay.
“Everyone, beware. [Protestors] are not going to stop before Election Day in November and they’re not going to stop after Election Day,” Harris added that “they should not” and “we should not.”
President Trump Grants Full Pardon to Alice Johnson
President Trump granted a full pardon to Alice Johnson during a meeting in the Oval Office Friday attended by the media. Previously, Trump had commuted Johnson’s life sentence without parole for her role in a Memphis drug ring to time served which freed her from prison after about 22 years behind bars as part of his efforts to reform the criminal justice system. Johnson was placed on parole as a condition of the June 6, 2018 commutation by Trump that was supported by Kim Kardashian.
Alice Johnson Responds to Liberal Media Attacks That She’s a GOP “Prop” — Reminds Media of Brutal Killer Donna Hylton at the DNC
Last week DNC welcomed convicted rapist, torturer and killer Donna Hylton to speak to their supporters. Democrats introduced Hylton as an “impactful community leaders.”
Hylton squeezed her victim’s testicles with pliers before he was murdered.
Last night former prisoner Alice Johnson spoke at the RNC.Alice was let out of prison after 22 years by President Donald Trump.
Alice was put away for life under a Joe Biden sponsored bill.
The liberal media call Alice Johnson a “prop” last night.
On Friday morning Alice Johson went on FOX and Friends. Alice Johnson reminded viewers that the media said nothing about Donna Hylton, a former prisoner speaking at the DNC.
WOW! Can’t Make This Up! CNN reports on “Mostly Peaceful” Protests as Fires Rage and Shots are Fired in the Background
CNN Interrupts President Trump’s Speech to Compare Him to Pontius Pilate!
Nancy Pelosi: “I Don’t Think That There Should Be Any Debates… I Wouldn’t Legitimize a Conversation with [Trump]”
Media Blackout: North Carolina Man Arrested For Shooting at Crowd of Trump Supporters, Which Included Children
Seattle Black Lives Matter Rioters Tried to ‘Burn Officers Alive’ By Using Concrete To Seal Precinct Door Shut Before Starting Fire
Speaker Pelosi Labels President Trump and Republicans “Domestic Enemies….Enemies of the State”
The Democrats, with help from their stenographers in the media are keeping the Covid-19 panic alive until Election Day in order to change how Americans vote — they are pushing for mail-in voting because it doesn’t require voter ID and there is no chain of custody.
The Democrats are spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about the USPS and now the Speaker of the House is using civil war rhetoric by labeling the President and GOP lawmakers “domestic enemies.”
Hillary Clinton, “Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is gonna drag out and eventually I do believe he will win if we don’t give an inch,” she added.
“Eventually win” as in the Democrats will continue to count ballots for weeks after the election until they have enough votes to overcome President Trump just like the Democrats did in Orange County, California in 2018 with ballot harvesting.
Unhinged Leftist Assaults Democrat Gathering Signatures To Recall Oregon Governor
Oregon Governor Kate Brown is so far off the rails that even democrats across the state have joined Republican efforts to recall her. Among those was Harlan Wright, who was gathering signatures for the recall effort in Happy Valley, just outside of Portland. That was until violent, unhinged leftist Joshua John Thompson showed up to the recall site and engaged in a verbal altercation with a female petitioner before physically assaulting Wright, sending him to the hospital with multiple injuries.
Wow, thank you for a comprehensive tally. My prayers is that liberal Christians at least would all awaken, if not based on pro-life only but also based on Trump doing good for and treating personally with respect people of color, as a number attest Trump has done at the RNC. He has also treated the pre-born of all colors beautifully. And seeks to protect all lives through the police. Quite unlike how he is portrayed in the MSM. IF those Christians would only watch the youtube clips of the “people of color”, some “life-time Democrats” speaking for what Trump has done for them and how he treats people of different stations in life, it would be beautiful to see. May God bless them to be open-minded and then open-eyed.
I’ve posted this here before, but it bears repeating….
The obvious quick treatment for the financial problems of the GOA is to file bankruptcy, but I can just about guarantee that is the last thing the GOA leadership wants to do. A bankruptcy trustee has wide-ranging investigative powers, and no one (in charge) in the GOA wants that kind of scrutiny. In addition, attempting fraud or deception in a bankruptcy proceeding is a good way to get the legal stuffing beat out of you.
Perhaps the GOA laity should demand a bankruptcy filing…?
Wayne, I don’t dispute what you’re saying, however I know on the other hand that several RC dioceses in America have filed bankruptcy in order to avoid further scrutiny. Are we talking about two different chapters in the bankruptcy code? (I’m not a lawyer so any legal illumination in this matter would be appreciated.)
The bankruptcies of the RC dioceses and a hypothetical bankruptcy of the GOA have different motivations. The RC dioceses have filed because of the huge liabilities involved in settling child molestation lawsuits. The extent of that abuse was known in general terms, since no later than early 2002, when the Boston Globe’s exposé was published. There was little to be lost by filing bankruptcies at that point. The bankruptcies were not filed to avoid scrutiny, but to discharge liability.
A bankruptcy filing by the GOA exposes a different set of problems. The problems are due directly to financial (mis)dealings. In addition, any dealings with the Turkish government are subject to the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which forbids payment of bribes to foreign officials. While the GOA is not per se subject to the FCPA (as it does not issue securities), the law does extend to foreign firms and persons who commit or facilitate bribery on US territory. I would also wager that any investigation would include money laundering
That is a different set of circumstances than those surrounding the RC bankruptcies.
Prediction: If the GOA does file bankruptcy, it will be preceded by a one-way flight from New York to Istanbul carrying Archbishop Elpidophoros.
Wayne, thank you for the explanation.
I imagine that those “pilgrims” who went to Istanbul last year with hundreds of gold cufflinks might be subject to investigation?
“Unless things start changing soon, there will be nothing to stop the free fall of the GOA until it hits the ground.”
If there is indeed a cabal of bureaucrats coming in from Turkey/Greece then I can almost guarantee that the above statement is more or less inevitable.
Right now the laity are voting with their feet and leaving the GOA, eventually it will be entire parishes, like what happened with the parish in Texas that broke with the GOA and joined ROCOR. If the monasteries leave then that will almost certainly be the death knell for the GOA. The majority of the GOA are not ethnocentric parishes like in the Northeast, in the West and especially in the South they are either majority convert, or, solid minority convert.
Eventually institutions like AFR (heavily GOARCH) and OCMC (officially pan-Orthodox but in all practical purposes ran my GOARCH) are going to have to decide how long they are going to be affiliated with such mess.
The recent doings of Archbishop Elpidophoros with the satanic BLM and DNC might just be the final blow that knocks the remaining faithful laity/clergy out of that jurisdiction. If the Antiochians were smart they would start a Greek Vicariate to welcome those clergy/parishes/monasteries who with to leave GORCH
Our bishops are skating on thin credibility right now with how they have handled the epidemic, they better take note or else many jurisdictions will be in free-fall (Looking at you OCA)…which honestly might not be a bad thing here in the states. Let those jurisdictions that are actually going to stand with Orthodoxy stay afloat and let the other flounder
Eventually institutions like AFR (heavily GOARCH) and OCMC (officially pan-Orthodox but in all practical purposes ran my GOARCH) are going to have to decide how long they are going to be affiliated with such mess.
If AFR here means “Ancient Faith Radio,” relax.
Ancient Faith Radio is an official and thriving ministry of the Antiochian Archdiocese.
Father Pat,
Can you then explain why AFR flatly *refuses* to address the Ukrainian schismatics issue – the “ecclesiastical” entity which C’ple “recognized” a couple of years ago and which ripped a divide right through the Orthodox world? And which affects the daily life of the English-speaking Orthodox world far more than it does in the old world countries?
Any unit like AFR that calls itself Orthodox Christian as well as a journalistic organization is deeply neglectful – not to mention it is blatantly gaslighting the Orthodox world – if it pretends that the Ukrainian schismatics issue isn’t worth covering. Why do they avoid it like the plague?
Intuition suggests that they avoid it because of wealthy GOAA donors who stipulate that the issue not be discussed.
How they do so and maintain any sort of journalistic integrity, I have no idea.
The leaders of the GOAA and C’ple, in my experience, are the world’s foremost experts in gaslighting. It seems that they’ve taught AFR a thing or two if AFR considers the Ukrainian schismatics issue “not worth covering.”
Come on. Do they really think we’re that stupid?
Let us use our heads:
Ancient Faith Radio is a ministry of the Antiochian Archdiocese. If it is true that “AFR flatly *refuses* to address the Ukrainian schismatics issue,” it is most logical and most commonsensical to infer that this represents a policy of the Antiochian Archdiocese.
I say this only by way of reasonable speculation. I have not been on the Board of AFR for some years, and I have not the slightest shred of information on the point.
Your further suggestion (“Intuition suggests that they avoid it because of wealthy GOAA donors who stipulate that the issue not be discussed’) implies a lack of integrity in the organization. Obviously, you don’t know John Maddex.
Father Pat,
Thank you for the clarification. No, I do not know and probably will never meet John Maddex.
But regardless of how much integrity he has, and regardless of which jurisdiction AFR is a ministry of, the fact remains that AFR DOES NOT TALK ABOUT the glaring immense problem that Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox clergy in the United States and Canada — who may be located right across the street from each other — are no longer in communion and cannot concelebrate.
All because some people in some position of authority — and it doesn’t matter who — seem to think that the Ukrainian schismatics issue is unfit for public discussion on AFR.
If this is not ridiculous — that this topic remains “off limits” to Orthodox journalism — then I don’t know what is. I will call it again what it is — gaslighting. The faithful know that the Ukrainian schismatics issue is an immense problem and needs to be discussed freely, yet the powers that be won’t allow journalistic discussion of it.
I stand by the position that a serious journalistic organization would address this issue because it needs to be addressed.
It is concerning to me that AFR is becoming the “NY Times” of Orthodox journalism — an entity that is all too happy to simply toe the party line.
At one point I was a regular donor to AFR (though never large amounts). I haven’t listened in years.
“Can you then explain why AFR flatly *refuses* to address the Ukrainian schismatics issue ”
Why would they do such a daft thing ?
Most of the small orthodox churches have been pushed around with much worse things by the big bullies in Constantinople or Moscow. And almost nobody in these churches drinks their propaganda anymore.
Or it can just be because these “small orthodox churches” are rightly horrified by the uncanonical actions of the EP. You don’t have to be a PhD in theology to recognize papalism, incipient or otherwise.
Let’s not start keeping count of the two sides 🙂
I think Constantinople’s papalism is an empty threat without a cash flow, which comes from the GOA and from the Greek Foreign Ministry. So Constantinople only displays the degree of papalism that those who control the cash flow allow.
Same goes for Moscow, its cash flow is controlled, and all its moves are in 99% agreement with the wishes of the controllers of the cash flow.
This is why, when the Russian-Polish friendship was going strong and Russian national interest demanded, they decided to receive Catholic priests by vesting, with no Orthodox chrismation and ordination. And without any consultation with other Orthodox Churches.
And this is why in March, when Putin freaked out about the coronavirus, they were the first to demand that the communion spoon be wiped with alcohol wipes after every communicant, again without any consultation with other Orthodox Churches.
Moscow Papalism.
Moscow Papalism is a very small speck compared to Istanbul* Papalism, to be sure! (*The city formerly known as Constantinople.)
Seriously, we can be critical of Moscow for certain things, but papalism isn’t one of them. The Church of Russia is not only the largest Orthodox Church and with the most bishops but from what I’ve seen and heard, the bishops run their respective dioceses with great autonomy (as do the priests their parishes).
One of the things I observed about Russia is the great outburst in creativity by the laity when it comes to the Church. If you get a chance to go, it’ll make your head spin.
The Church of Russia is also the most multinational Orthodox Church that has ever existed. The Divine Liturgy is celebrated in something like 150-200 different languages each Sunday among the many dioceses across the Church of Russia.
(I’d be curious to know how many different languages dioceses of C’ple celebrate the Liturgy in… One of the issues with the former rue Daru group in Paris when it was “dissolved” by C’ple a couple of years ago was that C’ple’s plan for it to be “absorbed” into the local Greek dioceses in Western Europe conflicted with the rue Daru’s group practices, which had been to celebrate Liturgy in local languages for years. The majestic St Alexandre Nevksy Cathedral on rue Daru has had a French language mission parish as part of it for years, However, the Constantinopolitan Greeks in France are still celebrating in — can you guess it? — koine Greek; shocker, I know.).
A significant number of the world’s “Russian Orthodox” are not Russian at all. Similar to how very few “Roman Catholics” are “Roman.” Millions of Orthodox across the world are spiritually Russian Orthodox yet have no Russian blood of their own, and that’s OK!
I think AFR is firmly within the liberal secular ecumenical wing of the Church.
I think AFR is firmly within the liberal secular ecumenical wing of the Church.
This is how you describe John Whiteford, Andrew Stephen Damick, John Mark Reynolds, John Parker, Edith Humphrey, Stephen Freeman, Jeannie Constantinou, and Barnabas Powell? Really?
Fr. Pat,
You’re only mentioning a handful of people and in fairness to FTS, he didn’t call out any of them.
There were a few women who were being featured in a seminar on AFR a couple of years ago. One or two wrote children’s books introducing the theme of gay relationships, one had pictures of her involvement with gay pride events and another wrote a love story with a gay character. The fear was that if there were people out there, especially inquirers, who liked the seminar and looked up the works of these women, they would conclude that the Church supports gay relationships.
I friended one of the women (can’t remember which one at this point) and asked her if she would like to address these concerns on my FB page. She was happy to oblige (at first) but when she received some pointed questions, she had my FB page pulled and it took me awhile to get FB to understand that I had done nothing wrong. She had brought it all on herself.
John received numerous complaints; one of them from me. I think a few of the priests finally got to Metropolitan Joseph and the seminar was cancelled.Then there is Sr. Vassa Larin (who is not a nun) who replied to a question from a woman of a fourteen year old boy about how to handle her son’s “coming out”.
So, yes, in many ways AFR has become quite secular.
George and I have been begged by several people to write more openly about this but it’s difficult because we know the positive role AFR has played through the years especially with regard to converts. As you may (or may not recall) I worked with Kevin Allen on several of his podcasts so I am far from hostile to their mission but in good conscience I cannot disagree that they have featured people who do not believe in the tenets of Orthodox Christianity, which has the potential to both confuse and mislead.
Great post. AFR was definitely helpful in my first year or so of Orthodoxy, but I stopped listening, for the most part, after there was a picture of the Arrested Development television series on the homepage next to icons of holy saints. It was for that “pop culture coffee hour” or something like that. I pretty much stopped listening after that. If I wanted to find gospel messages in shows promoting perversion and dysfunction, I would have stayed Protestant. I haven’t seen anything like that on the site for a while, but it was a trend a few years ago when that Pop Culture show was being promoted.
I also knew Kevin Allen and had/have great respect for him. My husband and I used to listen to Dr. Clark Carlton on AFR who also isn’t really involved with it anymore. My husband had me listen to Dr. Clark Carlton before I was even considering becoming Orthodox about 12 years ago? Memory lane. But yeah…I would never recommend AFR to anyone anymore. I would rather send a youtube link to a sermon because noone assumes you are endorsing all of youtube when you do that, but with an Orthodox site like AFR, it’s weird that we can’t embrace everything on it when it seems like we should.
Also, just today, I went on the site and see that they are promoting a Protestant doctor and author of The Five Love Languages. Now, I remember this series from being a Protestant and it is very helpful, but it’s just more evidence of them being more secular/ecumenical.
The fake “nun” Vassa Larin has done untold damage to the Orthodox faith. She has often teamed up with those famous destroyers of Orthodoxy, George D. and Telly from Fordham. AFR should be ashamed of themselves for publicizing any of her talks or teachings.
Very well said, Gail.
I too, have had great respect for AFR over the years: it was clearly the best “product” out there in American Orthodoxy as far as media went. However, there does seem to have been people trying to insinuate themselves in its interstices. Gail mentions one of the ladies by name. There were two others (whose names neither of us can remember) who are on the *ahem* “diversity side of things.
I hope that it can be righted. We need AFR, especially now since the GOA is going full-bore Episcopalian under the new primate.
George, with a bit of imagination, the problem is analogous to Gail’s recent words:
“…when it comes to long-time posters, we will often put your comments through and read them later so you have the opportunity to respond to one another more quickly. One or two of you have let us down on occasion and posted stuff you know should not be out there. ..”
AFR may have been genuine in the past and people may have trusted them, but this is no guarantee for the future. The same applies to the Ec.Patriarch etc.
A similar thing happened in Greece a couple of days ago, when A.Konanos, an ex-priest, resigned from his priesthood without explaining why. We had about 300,000 followers and I assume many of them are now confused.
It seems, the lesson to all of us is:
Our beacon is NOT the EP, or AFR, or Konanos etc: It is rather the word of God, the Rudder (Pedalion) with the canons, the homilies of St.Chrysostom and other Fathers of the Church.
IIRC AFR has been in financial trouble recently, or thats what it seemed given the requests for donations and support. Maybe thats indicative that no one is listening to them anymore? With “alternative” Orthodox Options like Orthodox Ethos and Patristic Nectar, which seem to be growing in popularity, its seems as though if accurate people are voting with their feet for Orthodox media as well. I know Jay Dyer has a huge Orthodox following and is responsible for bringing many people (mostly young men) into the Church, and he has no qualms with calling out the wrong-doings in the Church on part of GOARCH and the EP
Jay Dyer is doing great things, and with the blessing of his priest and bishop. He’s speaking the words that many young people need to hear. Glory to God and many years to him and his new Mrs.
Has anyone seen “Father Spyridon” on Youtube? Any thoughts? I like his sermons.
He’s great. We really like his sermons as well.
You should also check out Fr. Spyrdon’s books. They are fairly cheap on Amazon and fairly patristic.
Realistically, buying Orthodox books from non-Orthodox sellers is short sited. Eighth Day Books http://www.eighthdaybooks.com is not only a great book store that had everything it is an Orthodox ministry as well. A true spiritual resource. If you call them you get a real person who knows the books.
HAS everything
Just for “fun,” I tried the search function on the Eighth Day Books website:
“Your search for ‘Alexander F. C. Webster’ returned 0 results.”
That was despite four books and a new one already available for pre-publication orders directly from Holy Trinity Seminary Press in Jordanville, as well as other vendors such as Amazon.com.
Their search function needs work but I have seen and bought your books there. Phone works well
I’m sorry to hear that Fr, because Eighth Day Books is the premier Orthodox bookseller in America in my humble opinion.
This is all quite interesting.
I never go to the AFR website to listen to anyone. I’m just kept aware of it mostly because of Father Josiah Trenham and the late Kevin Allen but my interaction with them is largely through YouTube and Father Josiah’s Patristic Nectar Publications.
I saw that Father John Whiteford is on AFR but I’ve known him over the years through his blog and prefer reading him rather than listening to him unless he is being interviewed.
Clark Carlton still has material up at AFR but I discovered him through his books and only very recently found some of his talks at AFR while googling on the web.
Father Barnabas Powell is interesting, but he strikes me as too young in the Faith to be receiving such attention and I was quite disappointed with his answer to the issue of the Orthodox teaching regarding justification as a result of the whole Hank Hannegraff mess (I don’t think Hannegraff still knows the answer and Father Barnabas did little to shed any light while a guest on his podcast. I had the distinct impression that like Frederica Mathewes-Green – who offered a distinctly Protestant response – he didn’t have the answer).
I know Sister Vassa having my roots in ROCOR. Again exlusively from the web not AFR. It is a separate the wheat from the chaff sort of thing when listening to her (at least for me). But given her ecumenist mindset most likely due to her relationship with Father Robert Taft over the years, her shortcomings regarding Orthodox theology aren’t surprising.
I know very little about Dr. Jeanne but I do have a Protestant friend who is interested in Orthodoxy listening to her. Given the comments here I may have to do some sifting for her.
All in all I put AFR in the category of my convert phase, when people like the late Father Peter Gilquist, Conciliar Press, and others were quite helpful though now I see little reason to avail myself of such sources. I still maintain to this day that many of them moved too far too fast, and that was/is reflected in certain aspects of their theology and orthodox disposition and mindset, but nonetheless God used them mightily in my early journey to Orthodoxy and for that I am forever grateful.
It’s a shame if they have been undermined by noxious elements.
Has Sister Vassa been censured yet? It seems that ROCOR would have handled that
ROCOR put out a statement here:
ROCOR HOLY SYNOD INSTRUCTS FAITHFUL TO DISREGARD “PASTORALLY HARMFUL” STATEMENTS FROM SR. VASSA
https://orthochristian.com/105218.html
ROCOR HOLY SYNOD INSTRUCTS FAITHFUL TO DISREGARD “PASTORALLY HARMFUL” STATEMENTS FROM SR. VASSA
https://orthochristian.com/105218.html
That material is from 2017 dealing with a specific issue Sister Vassa had written about. Not a general caveat about her teaching.
Yes, if its a general sanction one is looking for, AFAIK it has not been issued.
To be flat out honest, Sister Vassa would never be able to get away with much of what she gets away with completely unchallenged if she were not part of the family that she is from.
No doubt, her parents have done and continue to do amazing things in ROCOR, but it seems that she sort of skates by fairly free due to her family pedigree. If her last name were not “Larin,” she’d likely be challenged far more than she actually is.
“Father Barnabas Powell is interesting, but he strikes me as too young in the Faith to be receiving such attention”
I wonder how long that process takes.
Father Barnabas joined the Greek Archdiocese in 2001 and is a graduate of Holy Cross Seminary.
I have no idea. I’m sure it varies from person to person. I was only giving you my impression. I’m not his Bishop so I have no say in the matter.
I just recall a video of him giving a seminar at a GOA church and the priest introducing him noted that he had been ordained for only three years (at the time) and normally wouldn’t allow this but thought it was okay in the case of Father Barnabas. I had kind of a raised eyebrow but I found that and a number of his other videos helpful in terms of church outreach.
I didn’t give it much weight until I listened to him on the Bible Answer Man podcast which was fairly recent since Hanegraff’s reception by the GOA is relatively recent. Juggling the question of justification doesn’t strike me as an issue a priest should have difficulty in handling. For that matter someone who calls himself the Bible Answer Man and a specialist in Apologetics since the days of the late Walter Martin should know the answer regardless of which Christian confession they identify with.
What is the issue with Hanegraaf? He certainly is too young in the faith to be a serious resource outside his wheel well, but a priest’s ordination should be sufficient unless he proves himself immature by his actual words or actions. I’ve seen green priests say profound things and I’ve seen seasoned priests say scandalous things. Age or time has nothing to do with it. It’s a matter of the heart and life in the spirit.
People keep saying that Sr Vassa is not actually a nun. How so? I mean, obviously a monastic shouldn’t have a YouTube show, but are you saying she wasn’t tonsured?
Dear Father Pat,
Re Presbytera/Dr. Jeanne: in my hearing at a fundraiser for a local female monastery a few years ago, Presbytera Jeanne dismissed (disrespectfully too as if ridiculous) the Fathers’ writings on and our Tradition’s understanding of the Most Holy Theotokos as irrelevant or worse and endorsed only modern academic understandings of her. She sounded like any nonChristian secular ecumenist feminist at that talk. Several Patristic priests or monks had already stayed home due to their awareness of this ahead and at least one wrote her gently ahead to no avail, I later learned.
Glad I heard it in person, wretched as that was. I got up from my chair just beside the nuns’ table to leave in quiet protest only to remember in the doorway I had brought people! At that remove I could still hear but let my jaw drop and color rise without being as rude as I might have been (ah my passions). Having been a Protestant, I so know this line of thinking. Not Orthodox. And especially damaging to very vulnerable women who do not know Our Panaghia is the new Eve and our role model as well as so much more.
Hopefully that is simply a personal blindspot of which she has been or will be healed (please send link if she has publicly, please). It spoke to such a bias however that I would not recommend any teaching by her or Sister Vassa until each awakens, repents, rejects previous teaching, and confesses very publicly since they both demonstrate clear issues with Patristic Orthodox Tradition consistent with our destructive secular culture. Since so many women including Orthodox have been confused by our culture, to have a priest’s wife who teaches confused as well, is most distressing. Since this came up on the Eve of Dormition, must speak. May our Most Holy Theotokos illumine all our darkness.
A Joyous foreFeast of Dormition so beautifully informed by our Patristic understanding of our Most Holy Theotokos!
In Christ,
Nicole
Yes. “The Jews look for a sign and the Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified.” Most of those you mentioned, at least the ones I’m familiar with, are attention seekers whose sermons are like “you always believed x, but really it’s y.” Their speeches are all about wowing you with how clever they are. They do not preach Christ, crucified or otherwise. They preach themselves. I assume Mr. Michalopulos doesn’t want me criticizing these priests by name (or you) and going into specifics about things they’ve said and done, so out of respect for him, I’ll just say that the only internet celebrity priest I respect is Trenham. I also have a lot of respect for Kh Krista West’s program.
You think you can just name drop famous priests and assume that I’ll be awed by their popularity? Is that how Orthodoxy works?
John Maddox is probably a good guy, but a well intentioned fool is still a fool.
John Maddox is probably a good guy, but a well intentioned fool is still a fool.
Although I completely disagree with this unjust and uncharitable assessment, it does serve to clarify, I think, the new policy about civil discourse recently promulgated by George and Gail.
I’m sure we all appreciate this clarification. It throws a new and helpful light on earlier and apparently outdated policies; Matthew 5.22 comes to mind.
Dearest Fr. Pat Reardon, while I have long admired your wisdom as a great priest, I also witness with my own soul the seeds of heterodoxy in your jurisdiction having fully flowered. No jurisdiction that turns away the faithful from the Holy public sacrifice of the divine liturgy according to the whims of a Godless government and threatens to call the police on it’s faithful for trespassing to attend the DL is worthy of being trusted. Repentance for all of us. May God have mercy on us.
Fr Pat’s jurisdiction is not the only one here in America who has caved. Let us be fair.
George, maybe no one has “caved”. The Church is universal but IMO there is no such thing as “world Orthodoxy”. The local manifestation is what counts under one’s own bishop.
Maybe you ought to consider that the Bishops made a genuine pastoral decision that not riling up their flocks over something over which we have no control was the better choice.
The article states from sources that he was returning because of priests “revolting”. Okay… perhaps that is true. In fact, I believe it to be true, but what if he is the arrogant type not to care? And it’s not like the issue will be solved by him returning. He made his decision. My opinion is there is another reason for returning… an underlying issue far greater. The elite circles the Archbishop revolves around is the issue at hand here. The treasonous activity that involved trapping Papadopoulos and how Karloutsos was involved.
We know Karloutsos and Archbishop Elpidophoros visited the White House not too long ago and weren’t given hardly the time of day by President Trump. The President knows these people far greater than even most of the laity of the Church. Perhaps they were there to cut a deal and were rejected?
“THE CHURCH OF AMERICA CAN OFFER FINANCIAL AND POLITICAL SUPPORT TO THE CONSTANTINOPLE PATRIARCHATE ENDLESSLY, BUT WE DEMAND AUTONOMY IN OUR CHURCH GOVERNANCE. CONSTANTINOPLE CANNOT SOLVE ANY OF OUR PROBLEMS, SPIRITUAL OR PRACTICAL. IF THEY INSIST ON A TIGHT GRIP OF THIS CHURCH, THEY RISK LOSING IT FOR GOOD, PERIOD.”
I would like to refer to Father Josiah Trenham on this matter here in these 2 links for anyone interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56X53n3gR3k&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z49ZbiJJJd4
Hello there. That part in video #2 about a concrete concept to start up a series of classical Christian schools with orientation toward concentrations of Orthodox populations where they live is something I could definitely support. The fact that Fr. Josiah described the target audience fairly specifically, too, helps to give focus to the proposal.
I didn’t realize there were fifty-six Orthodox bishops in this country! (I’m not sure if Fr. Josiah was talking about all of North America or just the U. S., but that’s a small detail, I think, at this point.) I bet there could be one Orthodox bishop per state, and then have the six ‘extras’ shepherd parts of the states that have the most concentrated Orthodox populations – probably the usual suspects in the Northeast, I imagine. Or maybe we combine Massachusetts and Rhode Island into one diocese, and Delaware and Maryland into another – that would free up two more episcopates for installation elsewhere. And so on.
Philip,
You might find this of interest: http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/assets/files/studies/2018-12-FastQuestionsAndFastAnswersAboutOrthodoxGeography.pdf
Thanks, Gail! Anything with maps warms my heart. 🙂
So what’s the solution?
Practically, what is the avenue to reverse all this? We can’t just kill all the bishops and replace them with Monomakhos readers. Is there anything that can be done besides just watching?
You mentioned that the priests are enraged and threatening a mutiny. What does that even look like? What can the priests do beyond complain on the internet? When the people rise up and demand an autocephalous, united American Orthodox Church, and then the hierarchy says “no”, then what happens?
Why does Bartholomew have a reason to care if the priests and laity are upset?
If the Parishes STOP THE CASH FLOW, the greedy will take notice!
Bart needs the cash flow from America more than we need him,the changes they are bringing to our faith are disturbing and should be rejected by all Orthodoxy!
“Why does Bartholomew have a reason to care if the priests and laity are upset?”
Because the people might walk – and take their money with them.
If you just glance through some of the articles from Canadian Greeks:
https://orthodoxreflections.com/category/canada-single-spoon-communion-petition/
you will note that even in Canada, where the Greek community is heavily immigrant in nature, faithful Orthodox are abandoning Greek parishes and attending other jurisdictions. If we are not already there in America, we soon will be. The assumption of so many hierarchs is that Greeks are a captive group. That is not the case. There are many Orthodox Christians with Greek last names that value the faith over their “Greekness.” As they vote with their feet and their financial support, that is going to have an effect.
Austin, what can we do? Repent, pray, fast, give alms by taking care of those closest to us. Refuse heresy entry into our heart.
The Church is not an “institution” it is a living body headed by our Lord. He died so killing the bishops would not work. Besides there are many good ones. A priest friend of mine who recently came over to Antioch from the GOA simply said that all of the Antiochian bishops believe. You can look on the Antiochian website to find the one for your area.
“Antioch from the GOA”
How common is this?
Get canonical releases to ROCOR or the Antiochians en masse. If the priests go, the parishes will go. If the dioceses can have an extra priest (or deacon) join a parish to serve with them for a short time to learn the normal customs of that diocese/jurisdiction, then the clerics can learn the drill and either stay in the host parishes or start their own missions. Fr. Nectarios Trevino did that, so did Fr. Mark Tyson.
My guess would be the majority would go with the Antiochians given the common liturgics and similarities between the Greek & Antiochian Churches, but that is just a hunch. Though it seems that the majority of Greek parishes that have currently left have gone to ROCOR (in the U.S and abroad). Makes me wonder if the Metropolitan Joseph doesn’t want to sour the relationship with GOARCH?
Hey, Monomakhoi!
Something seems to be wrong with the comment history section. At one point yesterday it was showing comments for articles back from November, and now it’s May articles. Do you know what’s up?
Same here. Now the “recent comments” are from 2013.
” At one point yesterday it was showing comments for articles back from November, and now it’s May articles. Do you know what’s up?”
Website is telling me that the most “recent” comments are from 2012.
WordPress has a name for this. It’s called an “update.” Trying to figure out how to back out of it. Wish we knew more about this stuff.
Perhaps you could try installing the Jetpack plug-in. A lot of the features require payment, but the comment feature is actually free. It will completely sync and replace your native WordPress comments, so readers will not see duplicates. Unfortunately, it’s hard to follow the discussions with the recent comments function broken.
Thanks for the help, Dan. We are not seeing duplicates, I don’t think. What’s happening is the section for “Recent Comments”, the comments used to appear in reverse order with the most recent one first.
Whatever I did, caused it to randomly pull comments from the past and display them in NO particular order.
It’s a nightmare for me behind the scenes for I am unable to do anything by approve or trash comments. It won’t let me reply to anyone. I’m unable to edit anything. It updates after each approval so I have to wait as I go from comment to comment.
With posts, I can no longer add media.
If you’re a WordPress Geek would love to get to know you better. I don’t know what you charge, but I do need the help.
Hey Gail,
Definitely no WordPress geek. I think our resident millennial Petros may be of more use here. If not, then try using a website like freelancer . com
You can post a quick job description describing the problem you have, and pretty much within minutes you’ll start seeing bids from different web developers around the world. I don’t think you’ll be charged more than a $100 total for the fix here. It will involve handing over some of the log-in info for various parts that the freelancer might need access to, but I wouldn’t worry too much about this.
Finally, I did not mean that I’m seeing duplicates, just that once you install Jetpack it will take over the comment function. It will still show all the old comments, it just won’t do it side by side with native WordPress comments. A trivial point really. For what it’s worth, Jetpack will make life a lot easier for you – the moderator. It also allows people to log in with Twitter, Facebook, or Google when commenting, which makes the conversations more authentic to some extent.
I noticed I’m not able to edit messages any longer either – so apologies for the double post. I just wanted to mention why I’m suggesting what I am – and that is, this what our marketing dept does at my company. We don’t have an internal web developer, and the ladies managing our website and social media accounts aren’t exactly savvy as it comes to the back end of running things. So they do most everything by contracting it out to freelancers. Being a complete “zero” in coding is not an issue whatsoever, so long as you can explain your problem in clear terms to the contractor. Maybe while you’re at it, he can implement Jetpack for you, which will make your life a LOT easier. Best of luck!
Dan
I so appreciate the suggestion, Dan. I contacted Freelance.com! They couldn’t figure it out. I went to the guy who created this site and he found a plugin I had inadvertently enabled that was causing the problem. It was an easy fix. But now I know about Freelance so it’s a win/win.
ARCHIMANDRITE ANDREAS (KONANOS), SPEAKER AND AUTHOR KNOWN THROUGHOUT ORTHODOX WORLD, RESIGNS FROM PRIESTHOOD
https://orthochristian.com/133521.html
Several times in this thread, the granting of “autocephaly” by the Phanar (and the ensuing recognition by the Greek/ Alexandrian churches) to the Ukrainian schismatics has been raised. This was the issue that caused my exodus from the GOA. Some of you may remember me posting awhile back, and how this resulted in an ecclesiastical rift between me and my better half (who remains in the GOA).
Perhaps I am guilty of black and white thinking, but, following the egregious actions of the EP, and compounded by the heretical statements/ corrupt practices of his likely successor in New York, I could no longer partake of eucharistic communion in a Greek parish. It is my understanding that one important component of communion is being in unity with one’s bishop. If I could no longer affirm unity with my regional bishop, and through him, to the “Archbishop of America,” and through him, to the Patriarch of Istanbul, then the act of communing seemed disingenuous to me. My better half sees the matter differently. She has been able to affirm the local parish (a micro perspective), while setting aside the “chain of command” (the macro). In truth, the parish in question – and the presiding priest – have enormous strengths, but I would say that that they run counter to the prevailing norms in the GOA. Unlike Protestantism, Orthodoxy does not permit the concept of a “denomination of one.”
In the aftermath of my departure, I will admit that my faith has been shaken to a degree. Returning to the Ukrainian issue, I find it very unsettling that the heads of all the autocephalous churches have failed to speak with consensus on this issue. Some are for, most are against, and still others have chosen silence – yet the ramifications of this decision (with all of its ecclesiological implications) are not going away. Even when Bartholomew passes, the probable accession of Elpidophoros ensures that the Phanar’s distorted understandings of ecclesiastical domination, racial precedence, and groveling to the secular western powers will continue. Despite the welcome initiative of the Patriarch of Jerusalem, less than half of the churches were represented, and of those who abstained, it was repeatedly claimed that only the Patriarch of Istanbul possesses the authority to convene a council. Suppose, however, that if this is so, that the Patriarch refuses to do so (as is presently the case), or is blatantly embroiled in heresy (not unknown for holders of the patriarchal throne). Is the Orthodox faith at an impasse, with no way forward?
On a smaller scale, the lack of agreed-upon authority/ ability to achieve resolution is largely responsible for the jurisdictional overlap here in America. Seemingly, on virtually every controverted issue, there are ecclesiastical “authorities” taking irreconcilable positions. When I was formerly a Roman Catholic, an evaluation of the Orthodox, then in vogue, viewed them as a “wayward band of brothers, squabbling endlessly, and all because they lost their father.” I don’t share the conclusion, obviously, but it’s disheartening to recognize the kernel of truth in this caricature.
Brother Cyprian, you have a big Cross on your shoulders, regarding your better half.
For what it is worth, I can only tell you how similar problems have been solved in cases I have seen:
-Literally continuous mystical mental prayer from the depths of your heart, with tears, even when walking in the street. Ask the Lord to illuminate both of you.
-Utter humility towards your better half.
Out of nowhere, your better half will change overnight, when the Lord wills.
Both of you will come closer to the Lord.
Lord have mercy!
Grant this oh Lord!
I actually love how the website is showing all these random old articles. I think many of the comments there are most relevant now during this pandemic. One has to ask – where did all the clergy go? It looks like 30-40% of the comments, circa 2012, are from clergy, and there are 200-300 comments under ever post. Did someone upstairs tell them all to stop spilling all the beans on Monomakhos!?
test
1 2 3
Hi George, are you testing us?
Sorry… I just couldn’t help myself.
LOL! We must never lose our sense of humor!
I am sorry to be off subject…but every American needs to see this video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_logo&time_continue=636&v=F_WS3hJ3Iyo
BINGO!
Not sure where to put this…but isn’t it sad that this sanctimonious Greek Briton does nothing to give context as to why the Greeks feel the way they do about Islam, namely, 500 years of Turkish persecution?
https://www.varsity.co.uk/features/19750
This is why BLM succeeds and the world couldn’t care less about us.
I had no ideas the Greeks in Britain were so based. Awesome.
The author openly identifies as a ‘heretic’ on his Twitter page, so he’s not really someone that we should be really expect to speak up in defense of the truth.
He worships “liberal democracy”, so it’s not too surprising that his article is all about reigning in and controlling “religious extremism”. It’s worth noting that he considers himself a “moderate”. We should expect nothing other than being called religious extremists if we are actually Orthodox. BLM succeeds because it is of the world, so the world embraces it. We should be concerned if we are not beset by tribulation in following Christ faithfully to the cross.
The land they want to put that pagan shrine up on in New York would pay for everything and then some. They could even use the leftover to engage in a little almsgiving! I heard there was a religion that supported that.
Father Alexander, I am not sure why you chose to belittle such a fine Orthodox ministry as Eighth Day Books but you should know that their search engine is a real time refection of what they have on their shelves. I checked with Warren, as you could have done, and found out that they are simply out of stock on your books right now. Sold too many I guess and has sold them for 25 years. You owe Warren and all of the folks here, especially me an apology for your arrogance. Your comment hurt.
Eighth Day is a real business housed on three floors of an old Victorian house not some fantastical warehouse in the sky that caters to everyone’s whim and passions.
You can contact him at Eighth Day using the phone number on their website. Warren will ALWAYS order a book for you, if you ask
“His disastrous march holding a Black Lives Matter banner could not have set well with the laity”.
Some people like myself have a positive view of BLM. Others do not. I could be misinformed, but so could BLM’s opponents. In any case, I don’t see his position on the issue as a key problem.
I do find it troubling that although he marches in a BLM march for human rights that he imposes draconian measures on church services. In the March, he is photographed in the middle of a crowd of people, yet he simultaneously would ban that from happening in church.
Were this an antiabortion March, the same problem would exist. He is basically unwittingly proving that the virus does not merit the draconian antichurch shutdowns.
Just like all lives matter, which includes blacks, this I support, but then again is this not a given? So much so, the whole statement is just plan stupid, not to mention a lie by The BLM. They only care for black lives killed by cops, yet many, many more blacks are killed by their own race, and of course the unborn, via abortion. The problem is BLM, the organization, has become confused with the statement, black lives matter. This is not by accident. Typical leftist tactics. Self described trained Marxist are what the founders of BLM are.
Is it troubling, or a problem that our Archbishop of American walks with Marxists, socialists, and anarchists? Or gives a prayer at the DNC, but not the RNC? What about our EP? Is it troubling, or a problem that he is, full in with leftists, and the green new deal? Just read his new Protocol (529). Meanwhile the EP divides us from our Russian Orthodox brothers, and closer with the Pope. Of course there is also the Cretan, and Ukraine fiasco abroad, and the big scandals with the future 100 million dollar shrine(not to mention the millions to maintain it), empty pension funds for clergy, and Holy Cross College funds mismanaged and the school near bankrupt, and at one point close to losing accreditation.
Traditionally most Greek Americans are Democrats, and most pay no attention to GOA “details”, but now we have had the internet, and blogs. How the GOA/EP “wheel” is greased, is for the most part not a secret any longer. They still do their best to sweep “details” under the rug, but sooner or later the corruption is exposed. Democrat or not, one thing most Greeks are not is Marxists nor anarchists, hardly any view themselves racists, but BLM does, and is. Hell BLM does not even support traditional family, a bedrock for near all Greek families.
So, is it all troubling? It is if a Church which is already having trouble keeping people in Church, especially young adults. By going political they risk losing even more. In my view, at least a third of its members. Maybe in New York they don’t care, as they will always have some millionaire or billionaire cut them a check, to cover “$hortcoming$”.
I care, and I do find it more than troubling. The walk by AB, and the talk by the EP was the final straw for me. New York and Istanbul might not care, my parish might, but the end has come for me. I imagine many more will do the same. Not sure what the next step is, but this is where I find my family.
PS-The beginning of the end, for me, was 95% of Orthodoxy’s reaction to the pandemic, here in America. They could have set themselves apart from all other churches,(Saint Anthony Monastery in AZ did) but instead followed “science”. Truth is they followed politics, not God.
“The Natives Are Getting Restless”
Of course they are. Here’s why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8
I was chrismated into the Antiochian church, but presently attend a Greek church. However, im going to drive the extra distance and go back to Antioch. Mainly because of the breathtaking mismanagement. if this were anywhere but the church, people would be going to jail.