It’s My Party And I’ll Cry If I Want To . . .

The newly autocephalous “church” of Ukraine must be singing Leslie Gore about now. 

According to Orthodox Christianity, Patriarch Bartholomew will not attend the enthronement of “Metropolitan” Epiphany Dumenko.  I suppose he could adhere to the canons which state that he would have needed an invitation from the local hierarch and I  but if so, then he wouldn’t have gone into Ukraine in the first place. Regardless, I guess Patriarch Kirill just wasn’t “feelin it.”

As previously reported, Mt. Athos ain’t feelin it either.  Fifteen of the 20 ruling monasteries voted against sending a delegation.  Some, including Philotheou and Karakallou, went so far as to say if Mr Dumenko came to Mt. Athos, they would close their gates in his face.

On a positive note, Abbot Ephraim of Vatopedi and Abbot Alexios of Xenophontos received their boutonnieres.  (“I love him, I love him, I love him and where he goes I’ll follow, I’ll follow, I’ll follow. . .”  No, wait.  That’s Little Peggy March.  Gotta love the 50s.)

I dunno, maybe they’re going to try and get Dumenko to repent. Still, the fact that Patriarch Bartholomew isn’t going speaks volumes to me. My guess is that he doesn’t want to be embarrassed, especially given the fact that no other primate is going or is sending a delegation. To my mind, this tells me that the EP has some private regrets.

Having said that, I can’t help but feel a little sorry for Dumenko. What all this tells me is that he’s going to be left holding the bag, and he’s having some regrets himself.

We’ll see. In the meantime, let’s all pray for all the actors in this sorry drama.

Many thanks to our friends at Orthodox Christianity. 

http://orthochristian.com/119065.html
http://orthochristian.com/119045.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Uo1nNt6LU

 

About GShep

Comments

  1. Abbot Ephraim suffered a heart attack after arriving in Kiev: http://orthochristian.com/119087.html

    As a firm opponent of the schismatics, I think he was somehow forced into it by Black Bart. Maybe his cardiac arrest is a gift from God…

    • Gail Sheppard says

      Lord have mercy.

    • It would not at all surprise me if the Elder feigned a heart attack (although I’m not saying he did). It strikes me as the sort of thing a wise monk might do under the circumstances.

      • A “wise monk” practicing deception and spreading a falsehood about his physical condition? I doubt this could be considered godly behavior. “Let your yes be yes and your no be no.” We will be judged by the words that proceed from our mouth taught Jesus.

        • Gail Sheppard says

          Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. Jacob lied about being Esau’s firstborn. Rahab and Judith lied. – They were “righteous” lies. If Abbot Ephraim lied to avoid the enthronement, perhaps his was a “righteous” lie, as well. – I hope he did because it would mean he wasn’t ill. Don’t you, JK?

          • Gail, I see clearly now. You go to a hospital, feign a heart attack, attract the attention of the medical staff through deceit, possibly endanger the lives of others because of the attention you draw and claim a “righteous lie”. Interesting scenario Gail. Thanks for the clarification. In any event, I hope Ephraim makes a full recovery, if he needs to.

            • Gail Sheppard says

              If he’s not having a heart attack, why would you assume he was in a hospital “endangering other lives?!” Good grief, JK. Why believe the worst of people before you know the full story?

              • Gail, I am merely responding to the foolishness presented by Brian and your support of that foolishness. I don’t believe the worst of Ephrem

                • Gail Sheppard says

                  I didn’t “support” anything, JK. I provided scriptural support for “righteous” lies and suggested this might be one of them. I also said I hoped he wasn’t ill. You took that to mean that I supported him “attracting the attention of the medical staff through deceit, possibly endangering the lives of others” which is as inaccurate, as it is stupid.

        • JK,

          When faced with a choice between a sin that harms one’s own soul or a sin that harms/scandalizes the souls of countless others, which is the more selfless and therefore more godly choice?

          And yes, it is always a sin to lie, though Rahab’s lie is called a work of faith in both James and Hebrews. True righteousness is always the righteousness of faith.

      • Interesting Brian,

        Lying is what a “wise monk” might do.

        Does this mean “wise” monks are taking examples from the koran, and applying taqiyya towards their EP?

        I prefer Saint Gennadius of Constantinople way of thinking:

        Adorn yourself with truth, try to speak truth in all things; and do not support a lie, no matter who asks you. If you speak the truth and someone gets mad at you, don’t be upset, but take comfort in the words of the Lord:”Blessed are those who are persecuted for the sake of truth, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.”(Matt. 5:10)

  2. It is being reported that Abbot Ephraim was threatened by the schismatic Bartholomew to attend the enthroment or be suspended of clerical duties. He had a heart attack when he arrived in Kiev and was hospitalized.

    • Antiochene Son says

      Who am I to judge, but it seems like Bartholomew is really trying to stoke the flames for himself.

      Putting an elderly man’s life in danger to scrape together some legitimacy for his project?!

    • What I don’t understand is that when Elder Ephraim was given the ultimatum to attend the enthronement or be relieved of his clerical duties, why didn’t he accept a “clerical exile?” One friend said he heard that the EP threatened that if he didn’t go, not only would he be relieved of his responsibilities, but that there would be harsh, long-term consequences for his monks at Vatopaidi Monastery.

  3. God will not be mocked! Abbot Ephraim was seemingly given a gift from the most high God to avoid his presence at this mockery of Church order. Bartholomew should pay a attention. I was misquoted before but I will say again, paraphrasing our Lord, it would be better for Bartholomew’s soul of a millstone were hung around his neck and he were flung into the Bosporus than to allow the hundreds if not thousands of innocent deaths that will result from his evil deeds.

  4. Constantinos says

    George,
    I have to ask you a question. Why does the Church say that Orthodoxy first came to America through Russians in Alaska? Russia sold Alaska to the US in 1867 for $7,2 million dollars. Before that, it was a Russian territory. Alaska didn’t become a state until January 3. 1959. In 1767, Orthodox Greeks established a community in New Smyrna Beach, Florida so it was the Greeks who first brought Orthodoxy to this country. In 1794, St. Herman of Alaska brought Orthodoxy to Russian Alaska. Along with all the other things the Greeks gave the world, they established Orthodoxy in America. As has been said before, “there are two kinds of people in this word, the Greeks, and those who wish they were Greek.”
    One time I was wearing a t shirt that said “Life too short not to be Greek.” A man in line at the convenience store said, “I’m Italian so we’re cousins.” I don’t think so, bro. It’s not that simple. So to all the non Greeks out there, eat your hearts out.

    • Costa,

      Sorry to intrude, but America was called America before the United States (or Canada, etc.) came to be.

    • Monk James Silver says

      Constantinos (February 2, 2019 at 5:58 am) says:

      George,
      I have to ask you a question. Why does the Church say that Orthodoxy first came to America through Russians in Alaska?
      (snipping a lot of unhelpful phyletic assertions)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Technically, the continent on which Alaska is located is called ‘North America’, but (pace our Canadian friends), ‘America’ is a handy reference for the whole continent. The ‘North America’ designation becomes necessary primarily in contradistinction to ‘South America’ and ‘Central America’, not here.

      Florida was no more an American state in 1767 than was Alaska in 1794. But the most important difference here is not that some Russians came to Alaska like some Greeks (about half of them Roman Catholics) came to Florida.’

      Although Russian traders had been active in Alaska for many years prior to 1794, that date has nothing to do with their being Russians or even Orthodox Christians. No, the signal difference here is that the Orthodox Church of Russia sent a group of missionary monks to Alaska in 1794 with the express intention of establishing the beginnings of regular church life there.

      The Greeks who came to Florida were not on an ecclesial mission, but came to America for economic opportunities and for freedoms denied them under Turkish domination. Noble aims, certainly, but not the foundations of The Church in America.

      That distinction belongs to those monks and other saints from Russia, no matter the ethnocentric preening of any other nationality. All of us Orthodox Christians in America are blessed by their holy work and by their continued intercession with God for us.

      •  The Greeks in Florida and the Russians in Alaska came for other purposes and so neither qualifies. Go to the Russian Patriarchal Catherdal on 97th and Fifth and you see “Cebero-Aleutska Metropolia” (Северо Алеутская митрополия, Siberian-Aleutskan Metropolia; also Алеутская и Североамериканская епархия ) was the origins of the OCA.

        • Lakis,
          The Russians came as missionaries shortly after coming as explorers: 
          https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/russian/russch3.html
          Also “Severo” does not mean “Siberian” but rather “Northern”. 
          The OCA owes its existence to the influx of Carpathorussian Uniates under Fr. Alexander Toth.  Personality conflicts and the Ukrainian/Russian divide eventually separated the Metropolia from the Church Abroad.

        • Correction:
          In my reply to Lakis, I should have written “Fr. Alexis Toth” rather than “Fr. Alexander Toth”.

    • Hope u never mentioned Albania to him. Lol.  My great aunt always said re Italians , One race , one face!! !

  5. Constantinos says

    George,
    One last thing about the Greeks. Archimedes of Syracuse, the father of Geometry, was a Greek mathematician, physicist, engineer, inventor , and astronomer. He is considered one of the greatest mathematicians of all time. He even anticipated calculus and statistics. Dr. Evangelos Katsioulis, another Greek, has the the world’s highest IQ at 198.4. I only advocate brain building for Greeks because the Hellenist mind is too precious not to develop to its fullest potential. Okay, brain building for Greeks; the rest, what difference does it make?

    • Linda Albert says

      Oh, now I see where Bartholomew gets his hubris. BTW, if Greeks are so great, why do the Macedonians want to separate?

      • Tim R. Mortiss says

        I think that Costa either jests, or protests too much!

        • Constantinos says

          Thank you Mr. Mortiss! On another note, I was just looking at the web site of my former Episcopal church. In their bulletin, they asked for people to welcome their new priest- and his husband. It reminds me of the statement by our Lord,” When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”

          • Tim R. Mortiss says

            However did such a scion of Greece come to be an Episcopalian?

            I have an old Presbyterian’s view of Episcopalians. You wouldn’t call it a bias, as such, just a sort of mildly jaundiced view of sheep-faced lugubrious doilied clerics, as opposed to stalwart Scots with their Geneva collars and brimstone.

            They are all much of a sameness now…..

      • Gus Langis says

        Linda,
        The Macedonians do not want to seperate from Greece they want to invade their northern neighbors to stop the Skopje Bulgarians from calling their country Northern Macedonia. The only Macedonia is the province in Greece with Thessaloniki as its capital not the region of Vardar with its state capital in Skopje.

        • Me being greek and living now in Bulgaria am amused by it all.  The former internal republic od macedonia of former yugoslavia ,is now the republic of northern Macedonia ,in the vardar geographical area if macedonia that is divided between Bulgaria # Pirin macedonia,  the said republic and greek Aegean macedonia.  

          I was there last yr . Lovely place and people who apart from Albanian and greek minority are Bulgarians and speak Bulgarian.  The Church is alive abd monasteries but great threat from Saudi and Turkish money re islam. The Albanians in Ochrid spwot at me in the street as i went by with our young priest in the party from Bulgaria . In the monastery the liturgy was in macedonian and greek. 
          Greek friends jump up and down  over the name but I say get real and look at the real threat TURKEY. 

          • My grandfather, great grandfather, and great great grandfather – the latter obviously a product of my great great great grand father – were staunch Macedonians. Being Bulgarian, Greek or Serbian never came into it. No way. And how is that? Certainly they were all alive at a time when Macedonians are said by some historical accounts to be definitely Bulgarian, Greek or Serbian, but this was news to them – and many others like them. How? Who in the history of mankind didn’t know what nationality they were? And why? Why did my grandfather watch his grandmother get shot dead for speaking Macedonian if Macedonians aren’t Macedonian?
            And why isn’t anyone jumping up and down about the conspiracy to excommunicate the Macedonian Orthodox Church (MOC). Lord, give me strength! All these people want for themselves is a bit of Orthodoxy and national pride  – LIKE EVERY OTHER LOCAL ORTHODOX CHURCH AND COUNTRY – and they get sacked with labels like ‘political’, ‘phyletistic’ etc. Give me strength!  
            MOC for communion with the Church!! MOC for communion with the Church!!
            Those poor, persecuted people  – second only perhaps to the poor Irish, in the whole history of humankind. 
            MOC for communion with the Church!! I care!!

            • Of course people are what and who they say and feel .and people in any area get a local sense of identity .
              I have long criticised the  greek attitude as narrow. But claiming Alexander the Great as Slav is also silly  
              All I can say having visited is that they speak a dialect of bulgarian,  remind me of Serbs  i live in Bulgaria so can tell. I understanding them totally language wise.  
              We know croatian and Serbs one people actually 
              Yes beautiful people and alive wonderful church and monasteries under threat from Saudi islam, Turkey abd Albanian irredentism   . 

              • Modern day Greece isn’t quite ancient Greece, either – culturally, linguistically, racially, whatever. But this certainly doesn’t effect my priest’s preference for quoting Democritus over Christ.
                That it’s silly for the slavs to claim a connection to Alexander is one theory out of many – the case put forward by the slavs being pretty good reading too.

                • Re macedonia and Slavs.  it’s nothing nationalistic, just history facts. The Slavs as tribes did not enter the byzantine empire south of Danube River until 6th c. That is history.  
                  They moved and mixed with locals, killing and raping too, that is life. 
                  Once they converted to Christianity the mixing went to deeper degree . 
                  And fast forward to 19/20c there were villages who spoke greek but said they were bulgarian  and vice versa . In what is now northern Macedonia in 1914 many villages said they were bulgarian and many simply macedonian.
                  Just as in 1922 greek speaking Muslims were deported from Crete as turks and Turkish speaking Orthodox from Turkey as Greek. And Potassium Greece and Bulgaria are ethnically bulgarian and greek 
                  Here in Bulgaria a typical bulgar is a hybrid of greek, Slav and Original Volga turkic race. So not really Slav!! 
                  I do not hold to any racially pure greek nationalism.BUT PLEASE DO NOT BRING A SLAV EQUIVALENT  
                  it’s like many many germans,especially from East areas are Poles or other Slavs. 
                  What is interesting as with celts in 6th century england , once the ruling elites are defeated,the peopke often adopt the language and fashions of the new comers as the celts did of the Romans and then of the German saxon etc The normal French remained a separate class because they were too few to dominated in that sense  and in end remained english ruling elite till now but adopted english language etc from 13c. 
                  Just as Russians are a mongrel ,including indeed mongols and Slavs and turkic, race. 

            • Solitary Priest says

              The Irish, the Macedonians, AND Ukrainians, have all suffered persecution. There is no halo on anybody’s head, as my late spiritual father would say. But I’m afraid the Macedonian church was a creation of the Tito regime. Maybe in Macedonia, cooler heads will prevail , unlike the Ukrainian situation. Let us hope!

              • I’m sorry but I can’t agree with you. On the surface, the MOC is a creation of the Tito regime, but underneath it all, Tito was being used by the MOC. Why? Because Macedonia/Macedonians want what every other orthodox wants – a piece of orthodoxy and national pride. Besides, if one wanted to, who couldn’t say something like “a creation of the Tito regeime” about many other local churches? In one way or another, probably each and everyone of them has walked (and still is walking) hand in hand with political interests. Why is the MOC’s so reprehensible all of a sudden? 

              • …and remember, if Tito wanted an independent Macedonia to spite the Serbs, this still doesn’t make an independent Macedonia wrong (in and of itself). Only if Macedonia isn’t Macedonian (but rather Bulgarian, Greek or Serb) would there be bigger problems. But I’m convinced it’s Macedonian. I think I could admit if it wasn’t.

                • Notas Gatalonas says

                  The entire Macedonia conflict goes back to Ignatief’s Abortive 1878 Treaty of San Stefano and the 1885 East Roumelia Catastophe , which Florinsky attacks as the separator of Greek from Russian Orthodoxy. Bulgaria still names many of its agencies “Balkan”  because they believe they are entitled to the entire Balkans.

              • Re macedonia and Slavs.  it’s nothing nationalistic, just history facts. The Slavs as tribes did not enter the byzantine empire south of Danube River until 6th c. That is history.  
                They moved and mixed with locals, killing and raping too, that is life. 
                Once they converted to Christianity the mixing went to deeper degree . 
                And fast forward to 19/20c there were villages who spoke greek but said they were bulgarian  and vice versa . In what is now northern Macedonia in 1914 many villages said they were bulgarian and many simply macedonian.
                Just as in 1922 greek speaking Muslims were deported from Crete as turks and Turkish speaking Orthodox from Turkey as Greek. And Potassium Greece and Bulgaria are ethnically bulgarian and greek 
                Here in Bulgaria a typical bulgar is a hybrid of greek, Slav and Original Volga turkic race. So not really Slav!! 
                I do not hold to any racially pure greek nationalism.BUT PLEASE DO NOT BRING A SLAV EQUIVALENT  
                it’s like many many germans,especially from East areas are Poles or other Slavs. 
                What is interesting as with celts in 6th century england , once the ruling elites are defeated,the peopke often adopt the language and fashions of the new comers as the celts did of the Romans and then of the German saxon etc The normal French remained a separate class because they were too few to dominated in that sense  and in end remained english ruling elite till now but adopted english language etc from 13c. 
                Just as Russians are a mongrel ,including indeed mongols and Slavs and turkic, race. 

              • Having been to macedonia I THIBK cooler heads will prevail. Actually I have no problem with a macedonian church or a martian church. I have a problem with a corrupt or badly worshipping church. 
                If people anywhere feel a.sense of identity that is local, then why not have own church? 
                The problem in Ukraine is not that i do not want a separate Ukrainian church. They have every right. BUT THE PROBLEM IS NOT HOW EP HAS GONE ABOUT IT. Explained at great length by me and others. And with whom 
                Of course the ordinary people are victims of the Politics. And who ever runs their local church. 

      • They do not, the Slav ones even claiming Alexander the Great.  And you know that even in japonese . Kimono . …heimona, χειμώνα ,  winter, a kimono a form of dress work in winter. ???????

        • Pericles Hanuflis says

          Not to mention Potomac potami, and those curious straits between Malaysia and Indonesia

        • Monk James Silver says

          Nikos (February 9, 2019 at 9:20 am) says:

          They do not, the Slav ones even claiming Alexander the Great. And you know that even in japonese . Kimono . …heimona, χειμώνα , winter, a kimono a form of dress work in winter. ???????
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          All of that nationalistic palaver notwithstanding, it should be remembered that many ancient authors reported that the great Alexander of Makedonia — in spite of being the student of the great philosopher Aristotle — never learned to speak Greek without a foreign accent.

          That ought to tell us something about Alexander, but also about Makedonia.

          • friend.  The point I made was he was not a greek in sense of Athens or Christ. I am having lunch now in Arbanassi nr Veliko Tarnovo , a beautiful up in hills place with the most breath taking churches painted by greek 17the artists..  
            Alexander get considered himself Greek. Not me, not you but him and it was the dominant, one can say as enish Culture today. Ihave no problems with that .BUT slavonic entered the area in 6th century .
            As here in Bulgaria modern bulgars are mix of greek,Slav and Original turkic.   I have no problem with any of it. I LOVE IT.   

          • re kimono etc I WAS BEING BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING IRONIC ,but irony not a yank thing. irony being my  one english trait 

    • Costa,
      Hellenic overload! My BS meter is in the red zone.

      • The Athens Olympics (that both bankrupted Greece), Smyrna, Instabul, Cyprus and now Macedonia were all concocted  while nursing hangovers at the Cafeneum after a night of bouzocchan tavern orgy. After boondogles like the  Antirheum Bridge to Nowhere, and the WTC church, now they have an even bigger doozie: rebuilding the Colus of Rhodes! Graecians need to reject the sclavonian mongols in favor of their pelasgian progenitors in Albania who,  being a much hardier race, continuously repleshish grecletude when orgies decimate it.

  6. Joseph Lipper says

    Let’s pray for the health of Abbot Ephraim.

    Does anyone remember what kind of turn-out was present at Metropolitan Ireney’s enthronement for the OCA in 1970?

  7. Rhonda Dodson says

    Several reports from Mt Athos indicate that 13 monasteries voted against sending a delegation to Epiphany’s installment while 5 voted for it with 2 monasteries not attending & thus not voting either way.

    Reports say that Abbot Ephraim had a heart attack & was hospitalized in the Ukraine. He has since been transferred out of the Ukraine for further treatment. Let’s refrain from claims that he lied or faked a heart attack. Such claims are pure speculation. He has been under an incredible amount of stress from Bartholomew with threats of defrocking & against the monks of his monastery. Add to this that he is not a young man & has a history of heart disease & heart surgery.

  8. Gail Sheppard says

    Thought you all might like an update. SCHISMATIC HEAD EPIPHANY DUMENKO VISITS ABBOT EPHRAIM OF VATOPEDI IN HOSPITAL

    http://orthochristian.com/119096.html?fbclid=IwAR22XvnYWTWM_R8pJmhYx-n_K3R-p7CqEQz53x0Z9n2tkIAEjWHqyGqkACE

    • Gail Sheppard says

      Sometimes I wonder if Dumenko isn’t just “collateral damage” in this saga. We need to pray for him, regardless.

      • Indeed. We need to pray for everyone involved, especially those we may consider to be our enemies.

        May the Lord have mercy and use this for the salvation of many.

      • Gail I think he is and probably a good man caught in a situation above him and manipulated by Denisenko who controlled by his wife , they both a nasty piece of work. They remind  me  of Romanian dictator caucescu and elena his evil, Nasty wife who controlled him totally. 

  9. r j klancko says

    And we support this insanity! Why? If do not support these clowns,. If we refuse to play their non Christian games,. If we do not give them any press perhaps they all will get the message. That is if they have a flair for the obvious which I have have yet to find such a street smart monk. This is tragic, this is embarrassing,this is totally unchristian I shed a tear for all of you. Tomorrow I will seek the church of saints curley Moe and Larry perhaps there will be more sanity there. We are the laughing stock of Christianity and do not see it

    • Do not fret rj. The Church may get smaller, but it will also get stronger.

      PS….Curly was my favorite.

    • Agree but really paedophile Catholics have greater claim Sadly. I can, do weep for us all

      • Zezis Contoftinas says

        Read Eric Metaxas book on Miracles, not for the theology but for the stories on Greek and Catholic clergy!!!

        • And was dolls as relics and artificially made icon tears.  Of course not all and I am not denying miracles at all but ‘Not to order’ and  not as main focus of faith. 

  10. Joseph Lipper says

    Where’s the photo-op of the canonical Metropolitan Onufrey visiting Abbot Ephraim in the hospital?

    • Gail Sheppard says
      • Joseph Lipper says

        Gail, yes there’s the picture of Metropolitan Epiphany visiting Abbot Ephraim in the hospital.

        Is the canonical Metropolitan Onufrey not able to also visit or offer prayers because now Abbot Ephraim is “schismatic”?

        • Gail Sheppard says

          I thought it was a thoughtful gesture, Joseph, and I will pray for them both. Although, sometimes a picture tells a thousand words. In the first picture, Epiphany is looking directly into the camera instead of at the abbot’s face. Epiphany is all smiles but the abbot appears to be slightly grimacing at the camera as if to show his displeasure. (Maybe he is in pain due to the death grip Epiphany has on his hand.) – In the second picture, Epiphany is looking directly at the abbot and a plastered smile appears on the abbot’s face. I’m a mom and I’ve seen that look on my kid’s faces before they roll their eyes. – In other words, I don’t know how genuine all this is. And, more to the point, neither do you.

          • Joseph Lipper says

            Granted that Metropolitan Onuphrey is in Moscow right now, but what this orthochristian.com article fails to mention is that Abbot Ephraim is “schismatic” from their point of view. Because of this, I don’t believe the ROC would justify prayers for the health of Abbot Ephraim in the Divine Liturgy.

            • Gail Sheppard says

              Abbot Ephraim was sent by Epiphany’s Patriarch to represent the EP, Joseph. Some say under duress. I’m sure the MP wishes him well. He has been a strong advocate for the canonical Church.

            • Mr. Lipper, perhaps you’ve been subjected to unjust criticism before, but now I really wonder where you’re coming from when you write, “I don’t believe the ROC would justify prayers for the health of Abbot Ephraim in the Divine Liturgy.” Certainly, in the Orthodox Church as I understand it, there would be no obstacle for offering prayers for someone’s health regardless of jurisdictional issues. As for praying for his health during the Divine Liturgy, I think you’re setting up a straw man argument. Did anyone say that the prayers were offered during the Divine Liturgy, apart from your insinuation? And even if they were so offered, in what way is that somehow against the rules? In fact, it seems to me that one could offer prayers for Filaret, that he see the light and repent, for instance.

              • Joseph Lipper says

                blimbax,

                I’m referring to traditional Russian Orthodox practice, that at proskomide only those who are Orthodox are commemorated. My point is that this schism has far reaching implications that just become plain silly. To say that Abbot Ephraim is not Orthodox is just plain silly, but that’s essentially what Moscow is saying.

                I believe the Russian Orthodox Church has a great love for Abbot Ephraim, but in reading this article by orthochristian.com, it almost seems like they’re gloating over the fact that he had a heart attack, and that it was all Patriarch Bartholomew’s fault. And will the ROC commemorate Abbot Ephraim in proskomide? Probably not.

                • Solitary Priest says

                  Please, Joseph, knock it off already! I’m sure nobody is gloating over the fact that Fr. Ephraim had a heart attack. If some people, the sin is on them.
                  It is not Russian. but Orthodox to only commemorate only Orthodox at proscomedia. I have no problem remembering Fr. Ephraim. Also, I commerate the two US Ukrainian bishops. I don’t like the role Archbishop Daniel played in this Ukrainian situation. I’m sorry that politics and nationalism sometimes trump Orthodoxy. I probably wouldn’t serve with him now, but I won’t stop praying for him.

                  • Joseph Lipper says

                    Solitary Priest, thank you. I’m glad to hear your conscience has you remember in proskomide the two Orthodox Ukrainian bishops of America and for the Orthodox Abbot Ephraim of Vatopedi.

                    • Solitary Priest says

                      I may remember them at proscomedia, but I wouldn’t enter their churches to concelebrate at this time. I also remember Greek Old Calendarists at proscomedia, and I can’t serve with them either. Yet, I would consider them far more likely to be in the church than Monophysites or Uniates. If I’m doing wrong by remembering certain folks at proscomedia, it is something I shall answer for.

        • “Is the canonical Metropolitan Onufrey not able to also visit or offer prayers because now Abbot Ephraim is “schismatic”?”

          Perhaps your friends were blocking the access, Joseph?

        • The Ukrainian KGB would not allow hierarchs of the UOC to enter the building.

          Does that answer your question Joe?

        • Correct me if I’m wrong, Joseph, but from the video it sure looks like Metropolitan Onuphry was in Moscow at the time.

  11. Gail Sheppard says

    MOSCOW, February 1. /TASS/. Patriarch John X of Antioch and All the East who is currently in Moscow has called on all local churches to speak out against the Ecumenical Patriarchate’s actions in Ukraine where a new ecclesiastical institution brokered by Constantinople was established recently, the press service of Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia reported.

    “Speaking after a divine service in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior, Patriarch John of Antioch called on all local churches to raise their voice against the Patriarchate of Constantinople’s lawlessness,” the press service said.

    Patriarch John of Antioch arrived in Moscow to take part in celebrations to mark the 10th anniversary of Patriarch Kirill’s enthronement.

    http://tass.com/society/1042841

  12. Johann Sebastian says

    I’ll just leave this here:

    https://www.ludwell.org/orthodox-church-in-london-1727

    “The early parish records, now also housed in the National Archives in Kew, show us that the parish membership was composed of both Greeks and English converts. The documents from this court reveal that there was also an Arabic speaking dimension. This is also witnessed to by the involvement of Archimandrite Gennadios and the future Fr Bartholomew in the project with SPCK described earlier. The community depended upon the Orthodox Church of Russia: Bartholomew Cassano traveled there at the end of 1726 to be ordained a priest in St Petersburg at the hands of Bishop Theophan (Prokopovich), the Archbishop of Novgorod. The contrasting Russian and Greek influences in the parish life is seen by the alternative rendering of the name of Archimandrite Gennadios or Gennadiy in the court documents.”

    • The first Greeks come as refugees in 1660s and were able to found a Church in Soho Greek St London. 
      Due to internal feuding which we Greeks and Orthodox have made a life art, the Church was clossed in 1670 I think??  by Compton, bishop of London on grounds of teaching illegal ‘Popish doctrine’  ‘.Probably this reflected the heightened anti -catholicism and anti – foreigners mood in the early yrs of Charles ii reign, leading up the Titus Oates Fantasy Catholic plot. 
      But undoubtedly ,the opposite of USA, the greek church is the mother church of english Orthodoxy. 

  13. Joseph Lipper says

    The Ukrainian presidential elections are coming up at the end March. If so many Ukrainians feel shafted by the creation of the OCU, then where is the presidential candidate fighting for UOC-MP justice?

  14. John Parakyrkas says

    It’s “ounia fatsa, ounia ratsa” and it applies to souther Greeks, esp Chiots and Peloporicans who are all Venetian Uniates. Athens farmed Scythia begetting Russia, Sparta farmed Sicily begetting Rome. So Dulles & al got it backwards.

    • If i got choice make me a slav, and now in Bulgaria so handy???????

      • Zelas Latofitas says

        Well, the Romanians claim most Bulgarian ancestry is Thracian Dacian Vlach Romanian.  But go look at the NY Times a century ago and you will find most cities now in Bulgaria with Greek names like Philipoupolis (Plovdiv), Pyrgos (Burgos) &c. The Bulgarians themselves get their name from the Volga River, where their mongol forefathers came from. While they were able to force their language on the region, they were not necessarily the majority. And here’s the fun part, the bacteria that makes yogurt is called  Lactobacillus bulgaricus, and the greeks need to realise it is a Mongol (Magog) invention named yokurt made from horse milk. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria

        • Exactly and the Muslim greek speaking cretans and the Orthodox Turkish speaking Asia minor Greeks. And most turks have greek and Armenian blood and in byzantine empire they did not give a toss because only thing that counted was being Orthodox Christians,not race. 
          My niece is part greek, part austrian and hungarians from mum and ger daughter has, ghanaian ashanti Genesis, Greek, Austrian, etc.  The more the merrier.
          One of the good things about uk, yes there are ,is the high % of mixed race kids. Healthy and happy. 
          In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, Slavs or free.   Nor black nor white.  Does anyone have a problem with that. 
          The issue is not race but Culture. 

          • Zeke Lamessis says

            Most of the early Turk invaders were only men. If a muslim converted to Christianity, they were executed, if a Christian converted to Islam, they were freed of the head tax and other restrictions. So it is likelier that Turks are of Greek blood than the other way around. 
            Consider that Turkishness was really a mental (bipolar schizophrenia) disease which repelled them from civilization and made them into marauding savages.  The Trojans were undeniably Hittites, who appear with Mongolian Turkic Turanian slanted eyes on drawings. That is why the Trojan Romulus and Remus share the Magog Volpomammic birth myth. The Ugaritic Canaanites became the Magog. “archaeologist Ursula Brosseder of the University of Bonn in Germany. The Huns developed as a political movement that picked up members from various ethnic groups as it spread, she explains. Brosseder suspects the ‘Hun phenomenon’ formed on the grasslands of western Eurasia, a territory that includes regions cited by Hakenbeck. The earliest evidence of Huns in that region dates to about 2,400 years ago” [Science News, 4/29/2017, Vol. 191, No. 8] This political movement movement derived from the Ural Ataics HLA DR1 schizophrenia gene [Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacology & Biological Psychiatry 30 (2006) 423 ? 428] and the Mongol 3’VNTR Dopaminergic Bipolar Gene [Human Biology, Vol. 68, No. 4 (August 1996), pp. 509-515].  Broadberry [LSE WP184 11/2013] shows that the Great Divergence of world economies manifested in 1348 due to Ghenghis Khan whose Tatar Magoguery decimated China, India, Russia and Greece. Fan Tsing fuh Ming was the call of the San Ho Hwuy and indeed Sun Yat Sen blamed the Manchu Magog for decimating China and thought the west was enlightening and liberating. But Mao instead used the Opium War as a foil to revert to tatarism. Note the cognates morphing,Magog, Mongol, Magyar, Hungar, Uyghur, Hangook, Gog. American Indians, Koreans, Japanese, and Turks are the true heirs of the Gog and Magog.   [Hugh Pope, Sons of Conquerors, 2005 pp. 210-223] But the Arabs always were led into battle by Turkish generals.
             

            • Tim R. Mortiss says

              A true son of the Orthodox Church! Weird, incomprehensibly complex ethno-nationalistic obsessions, and false to boot! False? Let’s just say: ever unprovable. Like all of them always are. And, of course, the more unprovable, the more to be cherished and nourished down the generations. Taken down from the armoire, like a weighty ancient complex clock of bronze, passed around, polished, and admired in hushed tones, then put back in the place of honor (and worship).
              True, this gent’s post is over the top. But as someone here recently posted, no true Lower Sorgovian will share communion with an Uppernorthwestern Sorgovian, inasmuch as one burned the other’s church 100 years ago. Or was it the other way ’round?

    • Lampros Neotrifas says

      Enrico Dandolo and his henchman are alive and prosperous at the Ceres Marice Club in Monaco. Shippers are Koinobarabric Uniates (Comnene Genoan, Paleologue Venetian, Kulukundis Hampshire,Coumantaros McKee, Niarchos Nazi Ford,  Embricos Hayworth Khan,  Livanos Jagelonian Radziwill,  Onasis Napoleonic Bouvier) John Sfakianakis and Chris Catsambas distribute Saudi Yesil Sermaye that planted all the canards Greeks believe againtst those who brought down the Ottomans in 1919. Greek shipping moves Arab oil and and Greek banking launders muslim money.

  15. Joseph Lipper says

    “Russian intel offering Ukrainians US$2,000 for setting on fire churches of former Moscow Patriarchate” https://www.unian.info/society/10440396-russian-intel-offering-ukrainians-us-2-000-for-setting-on-fire-churches-of-former-moscow-patriarchate.html
     
    “Russia-occupied Crimea’s de facto authorities want to close cathedral of new Ukrainian church
    “The occupying authorities have ordered the priests to leave the premises.” https://www.unian.info/society/10440057-russia-occupied-crimea-s-de-facto-authorities-want-to-close-cathedral-of-new-ukrainian-church.html
     

  16. Joseph Lipper says

    “To many, an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church is a ‘restoration of historical justice’”

     
    https://www.post-gazette.com/news/faith-religion/2019/01/10/Ukrainian-Orthodox-independent-Russian-affiliated-church-Kiev-Moscow/stories/201901100202

  17. Joseph Lipper says

    “Kyiv Military Hospital’s church decides to join new Orthodox Church of Ukraine, 14 January 2019 KYIV, Donbas war veterans and military personnel often attend the church.
     
    “The Church of the Intercession of the Holy Virgin at the Main Military Hospital in Kyiv has become part of the newly created Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU). The hospital church has been subordinate to the then Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP) for over 20 years, Ukrainian TV Channel 5 reports.
     
    “The priest proposed joining the OCU and members of the church unanimously supported the idea. The church is located in the Main Military Hospital’s territory, therefore Donbas war veterans and military personnel who are now defending the country against Russia’s hybrid military forces often come there. Therefore, the local community did not hesitate about making such a decision.” https://www.unian.info/kiev/10407462-kyiv-military-hospital-s-church-decides-to-join-new-orthodox-church-of-ukraine.html