It’s called “acting as if” or “fake it till you make it.” The Vatican and the Phanar are appearing together as if they’re already one and we are all expected to swallow this fantasy.
Practically speaking, there are many layers to this onion that we can peel away. Some are theological, others cultural, yet others political –one could say geopolitical. I am not a theologian nor a canonist. I can see which way the wind is blowing, however. And the winds are not blowing in the globalist direction. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see this. All over the world, people are rejecting the entire globalist world order and this includes ecumenism.
Both Francis and Bartholomew either can’t see it or won’t see it. In any event, they’re whistling past the graveyard, hoping against hope that the ordinary people who take their faith seriously will get over their collective heartburn. Unfortunately for them, that’s not likely to happen.
For us Orthodox Christians however, we have to ask an additional question: Why in God’s holy name do we want to hitch our wagon to the falling star that is Catholicism? We here at Monomakhos have pointed out several traditionalist Catholic websites and podcasts out there. These “tradcats” are beside themselves with sorrow and discomfort. More than a few are coming to the realization that it will take generations for the homosexual rot that has infected the Catholic priesthood and episcopate to burn itself out. If ever.
From a purely practical standpoint, I would think that the Greek-speaking Orthodox Churches would want to go out of their way to distance themselves from the Papacy, at least for the time being. Can they not see the rot over there? Or are they blind to the corruption that is presently engulfing Catholicism? And if so, what does this tell us about the present state of the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
I’ll be waiting with bated breath for the copy of Primacy and Synodality in the Second Millennium and Today. I’m betting it’s a rewrite of Archbishop Elpidophoros’ now infamous words where he states, “If we are going to talk about the source of a primacy, then the source of such primacy is the very person of the Archbishop of Constantinople, who precisely as bishop is one “among equals,” but as Archbishop of Constantinople, and thus as Ecumenical Patriarch is the first without equals (primus sine paribus).
We may have ourselves a pope, my friends. We just don’t know it yet.
Ecumenical Patriarchate Commemorated Its Founder, Apostle Andrew the First-Called
“. . . A representative from the Church of Rome, Cardinal Kurt Koch, who is the President of the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, was also present.
Short after the dismissal, the Ecumenical Patriarch addressed the official representative from the Roman Catholic Church and stressed that his presence at the Phanar was proof of the peaceful coexistence between the two sister churches.
The Ecumenical Patriarch expressed satisfaction with the fact that the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, which has been working on this issue for 40 years, has made progress on the discussion of a very important text entitled: “Primacy and Synodality in the Second Millennium and Today.”
He also referred to Pope Francis, who gave recently fragments of the relics of St. Peter to the Ecumenical Patriarchate; “This is extremely important. The faithful will be able to venerate the relics, and therefore they will have the opportunity to deal with several subjects through dialogue. It is really nice for us to meet the Heads of the Churches, but it is also important for the faithful as well.”
Moreover, he asked Cardinal Koch to convey his brotherly wishes to Pope Francis; “The quest for the restoration of full communion between the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches is not only a matter of theological dialogue. We could reach our targets by other means within the Church world. Mutual respect and appreciation are very important in order to establish better relations between the two Churches.”
Perhaps Bartholomew is terminally ill and wants to leave the legacy of being the one who united East and West.
What for?
The second half of your statement is correct.
As for the first…well, he is very old.
Hang on a cotton-pickin’ minute.
Bart is a few years younger than me, and I am now approaching my prime.
The Irish age well.
As George saying Catholicism is dying in West. I do not doubt or denigrate the simple faith of good believers who attend Mass and pray and live a good life. I know some. I know many who remain believers but put of by the corrupt priesthood and rest. Becoming true of us too Sadly.
Yes there will be bits of this Church that will survive, God is never mocked, but Phanar blind to all this in it’s globalist Bubble living in world that is dying.
And Clearly anybody who ready those words of the next shoo- in to post, elpy boy, pseudo monk and bishop and wanna be cardinal Visarion, and is not moved to leave the room, IS SIMPLY A ROMAN CATHOLIC OF EASTERN VARIETY. I’m looking at you Joseph. Sorry to be personal but THIS IS PERSONAL.
I was researching Patriarch Bartholomew’s educational background. He studied at the Ecumenical Institute of Bossey in Switzerland. From 1963-1968 he did post-graduate work at the Pontifical Oriental Institute in Rome, and later served as a lecturer there. Can anyone give us some background on this college in Rome, and is anyone familiar with the work he did there? I would guess that the Ukranian Uniate Church would have a big part in the Pontifical Oriental Institute.
He is bathed in scholasticism. That is why the Green Patriarch has always felt a kindred spirit with the “bishop” of Rome.
Yes but Michael we need to stop this Green Patriarch thing. ALL OF US as Christians SHOULD BE GREEN, should be conserving the Planet for future. Without the ideological crap. Why do we hand this kudos to bart et al?.
What has he done except words and nice conference calls.? What have any of them done.? First class travel no doubt. U can just hear one of the disciples booking Christ’s first class seat.
They irrelevant and desparate to have a seat at table. Well I got news. WE ALL IRRELEVANT TO THE WORLD IF WE FOLLOW CHRIST.
Of course, the Russians make Bart out to be The Manchurian Candidate. So is Prince Phillip, I guess.
Not that the Russians know anything about hit squads, espionage or covert information ops. I wonder if Putin offers that up in Confession to his chaplain and hand holder, Kyrill?
AF, please see Anony-Mouse posting from earlier today. According to Matthew Namee (who filed a FOIA request from the CIA), the late Arb (then EP) Athenagoras was a bought-and-paid-for asset of the OSS/CIA. Actually not “bought” as he was 100% willing to do anything that the OSS/CIA ordered. Enthusiastically, I might add.
So much for separation of Church and State.
Well, that being the case, at least President Putin is nominally Orthodox. If he’s faking it, that’s on him. It may be that some Tsars were faking it. That in no way affects my being a Monarchist and supporting the Byzantine ideal of symphonia. I realize on this one point we disagree, Michael. But in general, I feel you are the voice of reason on this blog.
Solitary Priest,
if Putin is faking it,
why isn’t Bartholomew faking it,
or Elpidophoros etc?
I do not know the mind of Putin. I said IF he is faking it. For all I know, he could be sincere. I’m not in love with the guy, nor with Patriarch Kiril. I just feel that that MP is a better choice than the EP.
I tend to think that Bartholomew is an unfortunate old man, perhaps like Patriarch Sergius, trying to make the best out of a bad situation. But he was educated by the Jesuits in Rome, which leads me to believe he is a soul brother of the Pope. If only he and the Pope could be truly united in the Truth, that would be something to rejoice about.
Totally agree with you.
SP, I think Symphonia is a bad idea because of the impossibility of executing it without harming the Church. It may be correct for a fully Christian society but that is the rub. Even a constitutional republic like the US is good for a fully Christian society.
Russia has the best chance of becoming one precisely because of the bloody experience with modernism they have lived.
My wife has some interesting Facebook friends. One of them outright asked her if she was not afraid of Russia taking us over. She said, no, better than China or Islam.
Any “reason” I voice here is by God’s grace.
She also speaks Mexican pretty well, so she is not really worried about that prospect either.
Still, there is a seed of the Church in China that may yet flower by God’s grace.
Yes, and the Russicum exists solely for the purpose of converting Russia–and Ukraine.
https://youtu.be/JKRATDhzJeU
https://youtu.be/acxG-M45oxc
and this little bit which is disturbing if the caption is to be believed (we all know about Nikodim of course)
https://youtu.be/Clg5jhAkmoY
Shows you nothing changes. WAS SAME IN 16)17C IN UKRAINE. Read TARAS BULBA, let alone history. Why many who supporting Peter Great church reformation were so anti -Catholic having experience of it first hand.
Peter I did some research some years ago, and i am writing from memory.
I looked up two sources
-the EP web page about Bartholomew
-the Italian Institute in Rome and its parent bodies.
The mother institute was founded by none less than the Jesuit General
Ignatius of Loyola. The mother institute advertises itself that many of its graduates later became Popes (and you may add, at least one of them Ecumenical Patriarch).
BTW B’s studies there were financed by Fanari, headed by Athenagoras.
That was a good investment for the future.
Below please find an article from today in The National Herald.
Patriarch Theodore and Antonis Diamataris honored The Thronal Feast of the Church of Constantinople
By Theodore Kalmoukos
December 4, 2019
https://www.thenationalherald.com/272137/patriarch-theodore-and-antonis-diamataris-honored-the-thronal-feast-of-the-church-of-constantinople/
George,
Did you see this? Fascinating documents recently available via the FOIA. Confirms what many have known unofficially for decades – that the Patriarch of C’ple and the GOA have been for decades and likely remain today firmly in the back pocket of the CIA.
https://orthodoxhistory.org/2019/12/02/greek-archbishop-to-proto-cia/
Abp Athenagoras (then GOA Abp, before his elevation to Patr of C’ple), to the precursor of the CIA):
“I have three Bishops, three hundred priests and a large and far flung organization. Every one under my order is under yours. You may command them for any service you require. There will be no questions asked and your directions will be executed faithfully. Please tell Mr. Burns for me that this is so.”
Maybe this was considered more acceptable back when it was thought that the CIA was fighting atheistic communism. But now that we know that the US gov’t’s real enemy is more appropriately described as “all things Russian,” then it’s clear that this tight link between the GOA/C’ple and the CIA is terrible for Christian Orthodoxy.
Most Holy Mother, save us! (“Orthodox poetry,” lest any ev-prots be offended.)
I did! thanks for bringing it to our attention however. I’ve been planning on writing something about it soon.
Traditionally the Patriarch was always chosen by the Emperor. The same is true with Rome. Brzezinsky chose Wojtyla, Cheney chose Ratzinger, Obama (and Brzezinksi) chose Bergoglio. Obama is more Catholic than you think, just look at his links to Fr. Michael Louis Pfleger and Catholicism is the dominant faith of Hawaii.
“Obama is more Catholic than you think”
Bergoglio isn’t.
Actually, “Most Holy Mother of God save us”, has been improperly shortened from “Most Holy Mother of God save us through your intercessions. The same is sought from saints.
I would like more info about this. If true, this is scandalous. Would it not be canonical grounds for removal???????????? May someone with more subject matter expertise than I please explore and share what they learn? Moreso than any local, minor hierarchical tussles, this story has the potential to be majorly historically shattering. George, Tmatt, Rod, and any other investigative journalists out there, please let us know what you find!