It’s All Beginning to Make Sense Now

But it didn’t yesterday. Let’s be honest, the Mueller hearings were a total debacle for all of the anti-Trumpers. Even the libtards on MSNBC, CNN and the rest of the corporatist media said so. There literally was no way that any of it could be used to further the cause of impeachment of the President nor provide any soundbites for the 2020 election.

It was a complete embarrassment. Mueller looked like a doddering old man. What a sad coda to an otherwise brilliant career as a decorated Marine, federal prosecutor, FBI director and now Special Counsel. All of his previous attainments will be overridden in the historical record. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say that the Democratic chairmen in charge of his fiasco were engaged in elder abuse.

So why did they do it?

Let’s back up a ways. Congressional hearings are always for show and for partisan advantage. It doesn’t matter if the chairman has a “D” after his name or an “R”. They know how the game is played: make sure your witnesses don’t embarrass you. In order to do this, they’re always stage-managed to the smallest detail. Why? Because nobody likes surprises, otherwise any political advantage will be neutralized or worse –it will explode in your face. And the witness doesn’t want to be caught in a perjury trap.

In other words, if you don’t manage it beforehand, it will explode in your face. Think of Oliver North back in 1986, or Clarence Thomas or more recently, Brett Kavanaugh. When it comes to the Senate, the chairman and ranking member will hold a press conference and express “concern” over a nominee or his credentials. Said nominee will then “regretfully” withdraw his name for consideration in order to “spend more time with his family” or some such. It’s all a game or more accurately, kabuki theater.

What happened yesterday was Exhibit A of how to lose control of the situation. Not only did the prime witness not want to speak in public –ever again–about “his” report, he went to the Department of Justice and practically begged them to not allow him to go forward, or at the very least to restrain him from saying anything beyond what the report said in the first place. And when he couldn’t get out of it for some reason (Uranium One perhaps?), he decided to play the doddering old fool. Even if that meant that it would destroy his sterling reputation forever.

The question is why did the Democrats allow this debacle to proceed? Especially when they knew ahead of time that Mueller was not going to give them any sound-bites? And why did Mueller allow himself to be used in such a ridiculous manner? I must assume that he is not in complete control of his faculties and, if this is the case, I’m sure his wife and children could have put a stop to this in the first place.

The only thing that makes sense to me at this point is that this whole exercise was a distraction. That this was all a clever –albeit embarrassing–ruse to get the peoples’ minds off of the Epstein scandal. Which, if we are ever to get to the bottom of, promises to be galactic in its consequences.

After the first 30 minutes of yesterday’s hearing, I found myself grabbing my Android and checking my emails. I had given up hope that any explosive words would come out of Mueller’s mouth. Then, during the first break, when the talking heads on FOX started scratching their heads, I knew something else was afoot. Chris Wallace was the first out of the gate to say that this hearing was a “disaster for the Democrats” and soon it became the mantra of the day. Even the zombies on MSNBC and CNN couldn’t disagree. It’s like they were all looking at their shoes, wishing they were somewhere else. The Left promised their kiddies St Mueller’s Day cakes and cookies but they delivered broccoli and asparagus instead.

So in case you didn’t know, last night, Jeffrey Epstein, the founder of the Lolita Express and owner of Pedo Island was found “injured” in his jail cell. Preliminary reports state that he tried to hang himself, others indicate that this was a half-hearted attempt to get himself transferred to some medical unit. Others say that he was another would-be victim of Arkancide. Chances are we won’t ever know the full story.

Regardless of what or who attempted to do Epstein in, it’s clear that nobody in the Deep State wants him to talk. If that meant throwing Bob Mueller and the Democrat Party under the bus in order to get people to look away from Epstein, so be it. As for Epstein, he’s a dead man walking. It’s only a matter of when, not if.

I imagine that whatever comes out in the end (and again, that depends on Epstein’s health), it will be really bad.


  1. George Michalopulos says

    P.S. there is one winner on the Democrat side in this sorry spectacle: Speaker Nancy Pelosi. By derailing the Impeachment Train once and for all, it takes a lot of heat off of Mdme Pelosi.

    It remains to be seen how the insane ultra-leftist SJW wing of the Democrat Party will take all this now that they Trump is running his victory laps.

    • Michael Bauman says

      Well George, the “everybody but us are Nazis” theme seems to becoming popular especially with the anti-sematic wing of the Democrat party and the Gang/Squad of Four. The way they are going they might soon have their own gang signs and patented clothing they can sell for exorbitant prices. The clothing will have anti-Jewish and anti-white male themes. They could be trademarked under the GS4 logo.

      Politics in the Untied States is irretrievably broken. It is becoming more and more chaotic, corrupt and violent. I am frankly amazed every day that there have been no high profile assassination or attempts at assassination. I actually do wake up many mornings wondering if President Trump is still alive.

      The last physical assault in the Senate was the caning of Sen. Charles Sumner by SC Rep Preston Brooks in 1856. It would not surprise me to see other such acts of violence occurring, except that the total lack of real conviction by all parties prevents such things.

      Still I am left to wonder in the words of William Cullen Bryant: “Has it come to this, that we must speak with bated breath in the presence of our {Gang of Four} masters?… Are we to be chastised as they chastise their slaves? Are we too, slaves, slaves for life, a target for their brutal blows, when we do not comport ourselves to please them?”

      Of course, if Omar and Talib actually do make a trip to Israel as has been reported, they might not receive the best of security.

      I think you are quite right that Epstein will not survive long in prison. He will commit suicide by stabbing himself 25 times in the back.

      Predictably the batty Libertarian Judge Napolitano blames it all on Trump.

      • George Michalopulos says

        Well said, Michael.

        I’m torn between two paradigms regarding the possibility of a civil war. Forward Observer has a really good 5-part series which results in the complete dissolution of the United States as a Federal republic. The opposite, somewhat more optimistic view represented by Kurt Schichter also has much to commend it.

      • Come on Michael, we need to drop the whole “anti-semite” thing; it’s just slander. I cant stand those four shrieking harpies as much as the next red-blooded traditional male, but I seriously doubt that AOC and Omar hate Jews qua Jews.
        They oppose the policies of Israel, so they are anti-Zionist at best. Opposition to a state’s policy does not conflate to hatred of their race/religion/whatever.
        We don’t see people accusing Bolton of being “anti-Persian” because of his opposition to Iran, just a war-monger, which is accurate.

        • Michael Bauman says

          Basil, OK but I would bet that Omar and Talib do hate Jews, qua Jews. They want to over turn all established order paving the way for a deep tryanny.  

          • Michael Bauman: “I would bet that Omar … do[es] hate Jews”

            Do you hate Palestinians?

            • Michael Bauman says

              Martin, since the term Palestinian is very inchoate, I do not even know how to reply but in general, I do not hate anyone. I, however, was not raised in an ideological religion that teaches hatred of the Jews as does much of Islam.

              Besides, the attitude and actions as well as the words of both Talib and Omar communicate to me that both of these women do hate. AOC and the woman from Massachusetts are just indoctrinated into an ideology of tyranny that has warped their minds, hearts and souls so that they tend to have common cause with those who do hate both Jews and Christians.

              In the case of Talilb and Omar, I do not think it is possible to separate their obvious hatred of the Jewish state, Israel, with their feelings towards Jews in general. Such a separation is a very western, secular distinction which is unlikely to have much influence on them. Talib has personal reasons for such hatred as do many of our brothers and sisters in Christ who live in Israel. Lord have mercy.

              I was raised in Kansas by parents who were deeply respectful of all human beings and worked their entire lives to healing divisions and sharing the burdens of many because they had a deep understanding of the interconnectedness of all things through a personal God (although neither could quite make the leap to true acceptance of Jesus Christ, at least in this life). I never had the experience of being despised (until recently) just because of what I believed or my sex or the color of my skin which Omar and AOC seem to do. They feel justified in their hatred because of bad things that Jews, Christians and white men have done to them and those they are close to. That justification is multiplied by the nihilism of their political ideology.

              You also have to understand that the testimony of my fellow parishioners who have both direct and ancestral experience with Islam is to not trust what Muslims say because they will turn on you. Some have told me that directly. In a very small way I have experienced that myself. My late wife and I lived next door to a pair of brothers who were Muslim. We had friendly interaction with them to the point that we shared a meal with each other in our respective homes. They saw our icons but were still cordial until my brother came to visit one day. My brother is an Orthodox priest who wears a cassock most of the time. I was standing in my driveway with him talking when one of the brothers saw him. His jaw dropped so far that I am surprised it did not dislocate. There was an obvious, but not overt, change in attitude. From that day on, they never spoke to my wife and I again.

              Maybe the proper term is not anti-Semitism because that has become a meaningless term, but that does not lessen the fact that they actually do hate Jews simply because they are Jews.

              As Tom Lehrer of 60s satirical fame wrote in one of his songs, National
              Brotherhood Week; “To hate all but the right folks is an old established rule”

              • George Michalopulos says

                One of Trump’s greatest hat tricks was making the  four unlovlies who make up the Jihad Squad the face of the Democrat Party.  

            • Michael Bauman says

              Martin, What’s a Palestinian? Do you think that non-Western people actually make the kind of secular distinctions between the state and the people who support that state and rule through that state?

              • Michael Bauman: “Martin, What’s a Palestinian?”

                “Martin, What’s a Palestinian? Do you think that non-Western people actually make the kind of secular distinctions between the state and the people who support that state and rule through that state?”

                Yes, they can. Possibly better than you.

                • Michael Bauman says

                  Martin, I still do not know what a “Palestinian” is.

                  • This is silly. “Palestinian” is ONLY used to refer to the Arabic-speaking, mostly-Sunni (with some Christian) population of that part of the Levant. The state of Palestine (like, for example Jordan) might have only existed in and of itself for the best part of a century, but those people, despite the best claims of the Israeli state, have lived there for centuries, millenia even, and are likely descended from the locals that accepted Christianity in the first centuries.
                    You don’t hear anyone asking “what’s a Jordanian?” or some other recently-constructed state; only the Palestinians’ very existence is even questioned and it is absolutely disgusting. These people had their land, villages, houses, and means of income seized from them – something that continues to this day – but somehow they are the bad guys when they throw rocks at the IDF, who respond with bullets and precision-guided bombs.
                    Say what you want about Islam, but no people should be treated like that in their homeland by what is effectively an occupation force of mainly Europeanized Jews with absolutely no connection to the land and no right to be there.
                    Also: An ideological religion that teaches hatred of people? Islam, yes, but also Judaism. Deny it if you will, or “interpret” it some other way (a leeway that is rarely given to the Quran), but the Talmud, which is admittedly the foundation of contemporary Judaic belief, teaches hatred for “the goyim.” Both are religions of hatred, but one seems to get off scot-free for its animosity against everyone. [cue indignant boomer responses]
                    Finally, I still find it hard to believe that right-on PC club members like AOC et al hate Jews qua Jews, especially when wealthy Jews form a large proportion of the Democratic Party’s financial backers and big influencers. IMHO, they represent a genuine stream of left-wing anti-Zionism shared by people like Corbyn and his Labor Party in England.

                    • Basil good on you and yes.
                      But people need to realise the similar extreme hate and fanaticism that parts of judaism have and how they act in Jerusalem. PIGS. Secular and even normal religious jews hate them
                      I spent sone time living in the hassidim area of Stamford Hill in North London. Believe me if i were ignorant, incidents every day could have turned me in to a Jew hater. To see the children all in black, as white as dead flesh, smileless and the shaven headed females always pregnant like cows , let alone the child abuse scandals as i professionally found later, BUT HEY WE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY ARE WE?

                  • Palestinians are people who lived in the Palestine before Jewish settlers came in XX century. Most of them are Muslim Arabs and some are Christians.

                    • Michael Bauman says

                      Martin, no I do need to hate them, I am cautious about the veracity of Muslims.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      Interestingly, a significant percentage of these Palestinians have some Jewish ancestry.

                    • Michael Bauman says

                      Boy, that came out wrong. I do not hate Palestinians it should have read. In fact I pity them as they have become cannon fodder and political footballs. They have lost their humanity in the process. Cannot go back and undo Israel however. Surrounding Arab countries refused to make them welcome so generations have festered like canker sores and the policies of the Jewish state supported by the US bucked up by crazy dispensationslists have made things worse and worse. Israel does not like us either but I refuse to buy into hatred of the Jews just as I refuse to hate all Muslims.

                      Both religions have out lived whatever of God they may have had, but God still keeps calling them to Him.

                    • Michael Bauman: “Boy, that came out wrong. I do not hate Palestinians it should have read. In fact I pity them as they have become cannon fodder and political footballs. They have lost their humanity in the process.”
                      Well, you do come out wrong. Michael, wake up, on this issue you got hypnotized by the mass media, right wing talking heads or catchy memes.
                      Palestinians are people like you or me, or like Israeli Jews for that matter. The main difference is that one side is humiliated by being oppressed, and the other demoralized by being the oppressor. I am not sure which is worse condition to be in.

                    • Lon Calefas says
  2. Tim R. Mortiss says

    And anybody knows that Epstein is just a stand-in for the Freemasons and the British Secret Service. 

  3. Estonian Slovak says

    Tim, would you mind explaining why Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, in his book, “The Orthodox Church,” writes that,” Orthodox Christians are forbidden , under the pain of excommunication, from becoming Freemasons.” This is a hierarch of the EP and a renowned theologian speaking. It’s true he originally wrote the book as a layman, and it has been through many editions, but I don’t believe that footnote was ever removed.

    • Tim R. Mortiss says

      ES, I have no quarrel with the position of the Church about Freemasonry, or certainly no significant one. I am not and have never been a Mason, and in fact the only member of my very large family who ever was or has been one to my knowledge was a great-grandfather who died in about 1956 in his 80s.
      To me all of this Freemasonry business which has popped up on Monomakhas over the years, and which has been going strong lately, is an aspect of something that I’d never known about or encountered until I entered the Church: a sort of atmosphere of conspiracy theorizing and sometimes outright paranoia. It is often displayed here, and the business of Masonry is just one aspect.
      The pattern: big suspicions of Masonry are expressed; I respond, not as a Mason, but as one who sees Masonry as a largely defunct fraternal organization. This  just points up the conspiracy thinking.
      Stabbed in the back by the Brits, State Department controls the Ecumenical Patriarch, Epstein hurt in his cell ties to Mueller testimony, on and on and on. I’ve heard many iterations of this sort of stuff (these are just recent examples here) from my fellow parishioners in my GOA church over the last six years.
      I don’t want to exaggerate or overstate it by any means. Nor do I think it has anything to do with Orthodoxy. Ethnicity? That’s another matter. Veddy interesting…..

    • Kallistos also wrote that the goal is to get the top of the mountain and it doesn’t matter what road you take to get there; maeaning that all religions can get you to heaven.

      • Broken clocks, twice a day, etc.

      • Jk a deeply believing hindu living with love and compassion will yes be welcome by God over the nominal wealthy Christian who walked past the begger every day and never showed compassion for others in his or her life.   I refere you  to the words of Christ himself about the Banquet and not every one who says, ‘ Lord, Lord.”  will be welcomed. 
        We should leave those outside the Church to God because WE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS SHOULD TREMBLE FOR OURSELVES AS I DO. 

  4. InsideDeepState says

    Mueller suffers from early stage dementia spotted even before he took special counsel job.  The letter the AG wrote limiting his testimony was written at Mueller’s request because he could not handle the scope. Mueller is neurological on the decline. But, people knew this all along. Why wasn’t it flagged? Who was trying to game this disadvantage? Special Counsel staff, that’s who. The Deep State is still alive and will take a generation to uproot. Trump has been right from day one. 

    • George C Michalopulos says

      IDS, to be honest, I don’t know what to believe. While it was clear that Mueller acted in a completely demented, senile way (and for six solid hours at that), If you remember his 9 minute press conference from six weeks ago, we saw none of that?

      Question/Suspicion: was this a performance worthy of Daniel Day Lewis? Or was his earlier press conference done under the influence of psychotropic mood enhancers that would make him look vigorous?

  5. Steven J. M. says

    When I first heard it reported that Epstein tried to kill himself, the first thing I thought is that he can’t have been put up to running a blackmail racket. While I now think that it’s more likely to be something else, I’m going to keep it in my back pocket that this was staged in whatever way to steer people away from those who put him up to it 

    • George Michalopulos says

      To all: the events surrounding Epstein’s recent history is fluid. The only thing we can say for sure is that something’s afoot.

  6. GCU Synchronize Your Dogmas says

    Ah yes, the ritual recitation of the talking points. Somebody missed the part where you’re supposed to try and sound triumphant but not come across as reeking of flop sweat.

    The media wants a circus and of course Mueller is not a ringmaster and it was always going to be a sober affair. That they are disappointed at the lack of fireworks (not counting the usual histrionics from certain members of the GOP caucus which everybody just tunes out at this point) doesn’t change the public statements confirming elements of the report. Which was all this was ever going to be. And it didn’t need to be more than that because those simple facts are damning, the whole Mueller report is damning, and to have read it is to recognize what it is: a referral for impeachment.

    The ball is in the court of House congressional leadership to do its moral and constitutional duty and begin an impeachment inquiry. While I can understand their hesitation and strategy behind dragging the heels to actually start the process, this reserve is not something that can ultimately hold. I’d give the start of an inquiry 50/50 by the end of September and 60/40 by the end of October. It’s kind of like watching an avalanche in slow motion.

    The observations ascribing senility to Mueller is classic projection. This is, perhaps, to be expected given the constant stream of nonsense coming forth from a certain famous twitter account, the incoherent rally speeches and the moments of televised national shame on the grounds of the White House.

  7. George Michalopulos says

    DeepSteak:  sorry for the dilatory nature of my response (I can’t find the original thread).  Anyway, I said I’d get back to you.  

    Just looking at my Federal taxes for 2018, my tax bite came to 37.27%.  

    My State tax bite for the same year was 4.87%.  

    37.27 + 4.87 = 42.14%.  

    And that doesn’t include property taxes, driver’s licence renewal, sales taxes.  (Nor the Federal gasoline tax).   If I added those in I imagine I’d be bucking close to 50%.  

    At least with Feudalism, we knew we were serfs.

    • Deep Steak says

      i specified unadjusted gross income and actual taxes not withholding for a reason. i will demonstrate with basic math why your figure of 37.27% does not pass a smell test for accuracy

      two basic hypos both joint filings with the only income adjustment of standard deduction

      dual earner 150000 gross
      150000 x 7.65% = 11475 fica
      126000 x 22% – 8121 = 19599 income (13%)
      total fed 31074 (20.7%)

      single earner 400000 gross
      8240 ss cap + 2900 med low cap + 200000 x 2.35% = 15840 fica (4%)
      376000 x 32% – 36621 = 83700 income (20.9%)
      total fed 99540 (24.9%)

      when typical fica is 7.65% federal income is 13.9% on 100000 taxable for joint and a couple making 400 large with nothing but a standard deduction is only paying 25% your claim 37.27% of seems inaccurate and requires more proof. i mean the top tax bracket is 37% and only kicks in above 600000 for joint


      cpa can feel free to nitpick my calcs

      • George Michalopulos says

        I believe it was Mark Twain who said: “Lies, damn lies and statistics”. You fit the bill. Maybe next year I ought to hire you to do my taxes. (I’m being snarky: My CPA has kept me out of prison for over twenty years now and he’s done yeoman-like work in maximizing my deductions. BTW, I shouldn’t say this but I actually do tithe –that’s 10%. Something tells me I wouldn’t be as lucky with you.)

        P.S. I did not put down that I received no refund this year but am on the hoof for a four-figure sum on top of what I already paid.

        • Deep Steak says

          this is not statistics but elementary school arithmetic
          when i point you to irs tax rates of top marginal rate of 37% which does not apply until over 600000 of income in a joint return while you claim you pay 37.27% of your gross income in federal taxes that suggests one of two things
          1 you are making close to seven figures of non capital gains income at a minimum to hit those rates
          2 you are wildly mistaken as to your actual tax rates
          this is not rocket science, the income tax brackets are 10/12/22/24/32/35/37 and typical fica until you get really rich is 7.65%
          your statement that you have extensive charitable contributions and a cpa maximizing your deductions suggest you beat the standard deduction making your claim even more not less suspect

          • George Michalopulos says

            Elementary? Then why do I (and millions of other taxpayers) shell out $80< an hour to well-qualified CPAs? Because we're stupid? I'll let you in on a little secret: It's because we don't want to go to prison. The tax brackets you describe are federal tax brackets. If you’re lucky enough to live in Texas, Nevada, Florida or South Dakota, you don’t pay a state income tax.

            • Deep Steak says

              two million six hundred thousand dollars of taxable income is required to hit an effective federal tax rate fica and income of 37.27%
              a metaphor
              you are claiming to have just run a 100 meter dash in 10 seconds that you are an elite athlete is far less likely than you just do not know how to operate a stopwatch correctly
              for given dollar amount of taxable income calculating income tax is simple arithmetic you take a number multiply it by another number and then subtract another number.  if the taxable income number is less than 100000 you do not even have to do that you just look it up in a table
              some peoples taxes can be very complicated but more peoples taxes are actually very simple. some might need a cpa to accurately calculate actual income and then try and reduce the taxable income  to as low as possible but for working and middle class w2 earners not so much. mildly curious if you even had to file schedule a in 2018 or if standard deduction was bigger after the tax bill changes
              yes i am describing federal tax brackets because you were making claims about your federal taxes which cannot possibly be accurate
              you have two choices
              go back and get the numbers right which are most likely in a 17 to 22 percent range
              continue believing and claiming you are paying 37 percent which is going to harm your credibility with anybody familiar with federal taxes
              ps – if you accurately stated your state income tax rate to that many places it allows a pretty close estimate of your state taxable income

              • George Michalopulos says

                I can assure you Mr Deep Steak, I did not make anywhere near that amount of money. (If only!)

                And no, I’m not going to show you my actual numbers.

                It’s arguments like yours that bring me back to the Aristoteleian side of logic rather than the Platonic.

                • Yr american tax system is a nightmare. Sounds like.  Here, Bulgaria it’s 10% flat tax. I’m not a great fan of flat tax but there it is.  

                • Deep Steak says

                  lol i guess somebody can not handle getting memed

                  i will make it interesting if anybody on this site can describe an accurate joint return scenario with less than 250000 in gross income that has an effective federal income + fica rate of 37 percent (ie 92500 on 250000) i will donate a hundred dollars to the charity of their choice in their name

                  i will even refrain from any counter requirements as much as i wanted to suggest if nobody can do it than gm has to vlog himself singing along to katy perry i kissed a girl and post it on his youtube

  8. Estonian Slovak says

    I think that the gentleman may be a disciple of Bernie Sanders. Bernie walks into a bar and announces,” The drinks are on the house!” Then he shouts, “Who’s buying?”

  9. Michael Bauman says

    Martin did you read my post?  My second one.  BTW, the oppressor/oppressed language along with your assertion that I am brained washed sound like mindless talking point gibberish to me.  So I guess we are both soul less brain dead zombies. 
    Or not.  The tradgedy in the middle East is not a problem of rights and cannot be solved by political deals.  It can only be solved by massive metanoia by all parties involved.  As it is every political deal exacerbates someone’s hatred and fear even if it actually addresses some need. 
    All are punished.  Until that is realized and the parties involved start talking to each other as human beings rather than from competing ideologies that long ago forgot God. Nothing will change.

    • Michael Bauman: “BTW, the oppressor/oppressed language along with your assertion that I am brained washed sound like mindless talking point gibberish to me.
      I am sorry, if you do not see that inhabitants of Gaza are being oppressed, then I will stop at that. I do not want to be impolite.

      • Michael Bauman says

        Martin, “I am sorry, if you do not see that inhabitants of Gaza are being oppressed, then I will stop at that. I do not want to be impolite.”

        I did not say that either. I simply do not like or trust the dialectic that usually comes with such jargon as oppressor/oppressed and it is ideological jargon.

        Our world is rarely binary. Even in ostensibly binary situations that reek of evil, God’s mercy can bring healing and peace. In fact, peace most often comes when conflict is approached from a both/and standpoint rather than an either/or binary assumption. When people are looked at and forced into artificial binary situations, nothing good happens. Certainly there are challenges to fundamental principals that cannot be compromised, but that bed rock is rarely reached IMO. In this case it is a toddler tantrum writ large: “God gave this land to me”. “No he didn’t, He gave it me, you can’t have it” “But I have a right to it”. “My right is stronger because my God is better”. Both together: Mommy, Daddy, tell him!”

        In this case, both parties are dead wrong. A better approach has been articulated by the Patriarch of Antioch, John X and his predecessor. Paraphrased: We (Christians) live here, you Muslims live here. We are not going to abandon the land in which our ancestors are buried for generation to generation long into the past. We do not expect you to abandon the land either. Let us find a way to share it.

        Oppression is a real thing existentially, and I have no doubt that the folks in Gaza are suffering from what can rationally be called oppression, it is just that I tend to see it much like a domestic violence situations. The Palestinians and the Israelis have developed a long standing co-dependency with each other so that neither can see any way of living but violence and use of power until there is a ‘victor’ not realizing they are destroying each other and themselves in the process. You made a similar comment.

        There will be no victor existentially as long as the co-dependent behavior is dominant. The Church and her people get dragged into the mess as do other countries.

        In many such situations, the “weaker” partner often maintains behavior that is guaranteed to trigger the violence and aggression in the other. Oddly, the violence validates the one upon whom it is unleashed. It is a thoroughly scripted and totally predictable “reality show”. In fact any genuine attempt to change behavior by one party to withdraw from the situation often creates an upsurge in the activity that has always led to violence in the past.

        Politicians on both sides make use of the co-dependent situation in cynical and corrupt ways. All are untrustworthy. The Israelis have done a better marketing job than the Palestinians to the sensibilities of the United States, but they are no more trustworthy. They just tend to have more polish to our eyes.

        I have no doubt that if the power hierarchy were reversed and the Israelis were in Gaza and the Palestinians in control in Jerusalem, nothing fundamental would change other than who is the “oppressor” and who is the “oppressed”.

        I refuse to get aroused to condemnation. I hate neither. I weep for both. It is the only rational response. When I see politicians attempting to create “righteous indignation” against the “oppressor” they are lying. You do realize that the origin of that language comes from Karl Marx, right? That is a patently false dialectic that is in direct opposition to God and the revelation of Jesus Christ. It is the way of death. I try my best to not go down that road. When I fail, the only recourse is to repent.

        This kind only comes out through prayer and fasting and the guarding of our own hearts in thanksgiving for God’s mercy and providence.

        • Michael Bauman: “ I simply do not like or trust the dialectic that usually comes with such jargon as oppressor/oppressed and it is ideological jargon.
          In my case, the word “oppression” means what it means. I refuse to have my vocabulary robbed in Orwellian way.
          My words are nor “ideological jargon”, you are displaying a knee-jerk reactions.
          You do realize that the origin of that language comes from Karl Marx, right?
          Who told you that, Rush Limbaugh? Either way, what type of a sofizmat it is, “you may not use this word, because X used it first”? (BTW, Marx in many things was right.)
          This kind only comes out through prayer and fasting and the guarding of our own hearts in thanksgiving for God’s mercy and providence.
          Prayer and repentance are good, but their purpose is not solving the equations.

          Let me summarize. Over the last post, you tried to control the language your opponent uses. You started by questioning the word “Palestinian”, when this did not work, you question the word “opression”.

          • Michael Bauman says

            Martin, thank you for your polite and direct challenges to my posts.  I appreciate it. 
            I am not nearly as good at planning dialog as you seem to think though. I certainly seem unable to connect with you very well which troubles me. Since I am stubborn, I will try to clarify.
            1. I have heard many different versions of what a Palestinian is so who they are is not well formed in my mind.  I was seeking clarification only. Although my phrasing could easily be interpreted as you did. Forgive my sloppiness.
            2. It is not the word oppression itself I was questioning but the dialectic pairing of oppressor/oppressed.  I have seen and read that particular Marxist jingoism used often in my life and in my view that dialectic approach makes a mockery of the tragedy of actual oppression by devaluing the human suffering of such situations and merely plugging them into some form of historical determinism and the utopian eschatology of “progress”.  It is that inhuman dialectic which is Orwellian in my view.  
            It is never my intent to twist anyone’s words or thoughts.   I apologize for giving you that impression. 

            • “It is not the word oppression itself I was questioning but the dialectic pairing of oppressor/oppressed. I have seen and read that particular Marxist jingoism”

              It never hurts to study your supposed enemy 😉

              Hegelian/Marxist dialectic of “oppressor/oppressed” or rather of “master and slave” means something quite opposite to what you assume.

              Let me elaborate:

              When the stronger enslaves the weaker, he puts the slave to work for him. At the very end the master become utterly dependent on the slave and cannot survive without him. So the slaves, who do the real work, are destined to become masters.

              My Israeli Jewish friends complained about the decline of kibbutzim that they knew. The members of these agricultural cooperatives started to hire Palestinian laborers, more and more. Now they are comfortable and affluent, but lost ability to do work themselves.

              • George Michalopulos says

                There’s a joke in Israel about the kibbutzim. A grandmother was telling her grandchildren how hard they worked on the kibbutz when they were young. “We young women worked hard all day preparing the food that was harvested. Your grandfather worked from sun-up to sun-down building roads and fortifications with the other young men. It was hard work but we were young and healthy and we had a good time.”

                To which the grandson replied in horror: “Granma! I didn’t know that Granpa was an Arab!”

        • Sorry, Michael, I usually enjoy your comments and insight but this was pure sophistry with a sprinkling of pietism to make more palatable.
          This is not a case of “they’re both to blame.” After the Brits left Palestine after WW2 (following a Jewish terrorist campaign), European Jews swarmed into that country and forced the Palestinian people to flee, committing atrocities to strike fear into the hearts of the civilians. Since then, the Palestinians have only done what any reasonable people would do in such a situation: resist.
          I look forward to your “both sides are at fault” if the Mexican Reconquista gets spicy (pun intended) and white Americans find themselves on the receiving end of a little oppression. Sound crazy? Well, so did the Jews returning to Palestine. All it takes is demographics and a couple of years.

          • Gail Sheppard says

            Basil, I hear you, but what happened to the Palestinians has happened on any given Sunday, to any given people, throughout history. Nations conquer other nations. At some point, the conquered nation has to move on.

            This is not the same thing as saying there weren’t injustices. Of course, there were. However, the Palestinians have turned down 7 peace agreements and some of them were a whole lot better than anything they could hope to achieve through their own efforts.

            Every time they engage the enemy, they destabilize the region. I would understand if there were any possibility they could get back what they had because then they would be the victors, but they can’t. So why are they fighting?

            A better question is why should I care? It’s hard to support a people who won’t be satisfied until they get a specific outcome and the likelihood of that outcome is nil. If you can’t win, it is not reasonable to resist. It is certainly not reasonable to expect the support of other nations. When the Palestinians engage the Jews their sole intent is to punish the nation that did them wrong. They need to let go of their vendetta and move on.

            • “I would understand if there were any possibility they could get back what they had because then they would be the victors, but they can’t. So why are they fighting?”

              It took my ancestors 400 years, but they freed (most of) Greece from the Turk, as did the Serbs, Bulgars, and Romanians. There’s no such thing as a lost cause when you have faith that you can prevail and free your homeland from a foreign oppressor.

              • Gail Sheppard says

                Therein lies the problem, Basil: It’s not my homeland. – I understand why you feel the way you do. Can you kind of understand why I might feel the way I do?

                • It’s not my homeland. – I understand why you feel the way you do. Can you kind of understand why I might feel the way I do?
                  I don’t. Do you “feel” that Palestinians and Serbs just should shut up and go away? Why might you feel the way you do?

                  ” It’s not my homeland.”

                  If it were, would you understand?

                  • George Michalopulos says

                    Interesting insights, Martin. For an answer, please see my response to Gail below.

                  • Gail Sheppard says

                    No, Martin. I do not feel everyone should shut up and go away so please don’t ascribe that to me.

                    I do think, however, that no one, including you, should expect me to defend your interests.  That’s your job.  I’ve got my hands full protecting my own interests.  And why would anybody like me want to help when there is this implied expectation that helping some other part of the world is my duty?  When the U.S. does get involved it’s rarely appreciated and people blame every terrible thing that happens on our involvement. Example: “We (speaking of Syria) were the safest place in the Middle East until you came along.”  This is a no-win game for us.                

                • George Michalopulos says

                  If I may respond: the reason we need a united and territorial Orthodox Church here in America (which is autocephalous) is because “our” homeland is the U S of A. While I realize that the various ethnic groups have legitimate grievances regarding our countries of origin, our true problems are here.

                  We cannot criticize AIPAC (the “Jewish lobby”) and America’s blind support for Israel on the one hand while bellyaching for other foreign countries on the other. That’s blind hypocrisy. It’s certainly not consistent.

                  Regardless, if we are to concentrate on foreign issues (again, let’s listen to George Washington in his Farewell Address), then as American Orthodox we are failing miserably. I first felt the sting of the defeat of our Orthodox witness during the Kosovo crisis of 1998-99 when SCOBA couldn’t organize a two-car funeral of a response. Now of course, under the new, improved, Canon-28 hypercharged (and GOA-dominated) EAUSA, we are sitting by mutely while the State Dept is hijacking “the New Rome” for even more foreign interventionism.

              • Michael Bauman says

                Basil, the question I have always had and been unable to answer: Does the end, political and ethnic self-governance justify killing and maiming and destroying others even when their rule is unjust?

                Like Patton said, “The goal of a soldier is not to die for his country, it is to make some other soldier die for his country”.

                What is passed from generation to generation to accomplish what was accomplished? Christianity that explicitly teaches us to love our enemy? I think not. St. Basil’s rules for war and participation in war involved repentance when the war was done. Has there been personal and societal repentance for the killing that went on? Even granting the existential necessity of the fight, killing others always damages the soul. We are not meant to kill one another.

                But I am not a pacifist. There is place for taking up arms in defense of others and one’s self, but it is a perilous place in which one must guard one’s own heart even more fiercely. Such peril is one of the reasons we pray for our nation’s soldiers. The enticement of the darkness and the hardening of one’s heart in battle is just as much an enemy as the physical enemies, perhaps more.

                It is said that soldiers in battle do not fight for their country, they fight for their buddy next to them. Studies done after World War II indicate that a very high portion of soldiers in battle simply refused to fire their weapons, at times even when they were under great threat. Were they cowards? Perhaps, but perhaps they just did not want to kill.

                This enigma is one of the reasons I really like a confederate form of government. Confederations do two things badly: levy taxes and make war because confederation requires the actual agreement on the part of the governed to do both things. More centralized governments have no such brake upon them.

                Indeed one of the great acts of violence against the Church such as we see with Pat. Bartholomew is to abrogate the blessed confederation of the Church in Christ. Because of that we are often assumed by the world to be ditzy, disorganized, weak. Are we?

                We all fall short of the glory of God, and rely on His unfailing mercy for our life and our salvation. May that mercy abound in your life and may you be blessed with all good things.

                • George Michalopulos says

                  Brilliant! Well said, Michael.

                  The contortion of these United States into the United States (1913: Federal Reserve Act; National Income Tax; direct election of Senators –thank you Woodrow Wilson [and Teddy Roosevelt for being the spoiler]) stripped the proper forms of republicanism (i.e. confederation of equal states) into a unitary national state (a la France, Germany, Greece, etc.) from the Constitution. Thereby making it easier for the US to be a warfare/welfare state.

                  • Michael Bauman says

                    George, while you are correct as to what the events and people you mention did, I move the timeline back to the Civil War and Reconstruction.

                    The Civil War made the Federal Government supreme over the states. Reconstruction implanted the idea in law.

                    Indeed, the Constitution itself paved the way for such a happening. The first words of the Preamble: “In order to form a more perfect union…”

                    One need to look no further that the letters of Andrew Jackson to see how deeply the idea of union was. That was why he threatened to send troops to South Carolina when they wanted to abrogate Federal Tariffs.

                    The tension between Federal Union and a confederated form of governance is at the core of our national character in many ways.

                    Interestingly enough, despite our nations founding in English Common Law (roots I the Justinian Code), we have never been an ethnic nation. Sure we have our human difficulties with folks who are not like us, but we have never been and never will be a race.

                    That reality is perhaps one of the most difficult things for Old World hierarchs to comprehend and adapt too. Obviously the GOA and dependencies are the least flexible.

                    Part of evangelizing this country is realizing that we as a people are not race dependent. If we get an autocephalous United States Orthodox Church, it will have to be Jesus Christ who holds us together, nothing less. There are even likely to be regional variances in the services to some extent. Some of the variance reflecting the original Old World starting point, but others that are simply the continued differences between North, South, East and West that stubbornly refuse to be homogenized.

            • Gail Sheppard: “If you can’t win, it is not reasonable to resist. It is certainly not reasonable to expect the support of other nations.”

              Majority of the world nations recognize the Palestine as state. Significant part of Israeli Jews support Palestinians.


            • Gail I must disagree with you strongly.  
              Firstly the entire problem is because after 1945 the europeans and USA dumped their holocaust guilt on to the Arabs who had no part in it, Jerusalem mullah not withstanding. For centuries Islam gave jews sanctury, as Ottoman Turkey . Secondly there were circa 1900 an arab population, many tracing their villages and olive trees back centuries.  
              THIRDLY,  the Jews were expelled from Palestine totally by emperor Hadrian in AD 135 and Jerusalem leveled. 
              The return of the jews was caused by zionism that had a invested interest, let alone Rothschild bank,  in getting european jews to emmigrate. Most of these european jews as opposed to the middle East ones, had no roots in Palestine anyway. 
              Lord Balfour and the Brits did their usual ( see India, Africa, Cyprus IRELAND, the bastards have form)divide and rule. 
              The jews, and Yes I understanding where in 1945 coming from, and would I have done different?  used murder and slaughter to grab land.And killing and hanging uk soldiers etc, see King David hotel,1948  etc. 
              The arabs quite naturally resisted  , NOT A CRIME. 
              Now as one says re Arabs, ‘who needs enemies when they make a nice job of it themselves!! ” . 
              But Israel is no little country but since last century last decades, is a NUCLEAR POWER supported by west and USA.
              It has engaged with uk and France in aggressive war(1956) and ‘contrived’ six day war in1967,  and what has done to Lebanon, a never ending   war crime included the Sabrina and Shatilia camp massacres by it’s fascist fallange maronite allies, it conived at in September  1982. The Mass  bombing  of Beirut and rest.  Obscene war crimes.  That the arabs resist is regarded as crime in itself I think by some!!!  Maybe you?  
              As for the Peace deals,  israel never honoured any of the promises made and they were also heavily one sided. Now u may argue better than nothing but until it is YOUR HOME, YOUR LAND, I think we don’t have view.  And modern Israel is aparteid state maintaining brutal illegal occupation, murdering palestinians daily. And u surprised the palestinians fight back?????. The increasing extremes the fault of Israel and have you looked at the extremes of judaism?? As for bringing God into it. Then we in the realms of Isis and El Queda really, are we not? 
              And as a Greek, if Jerusalem is totally Jewish city, WELL I WANT ISTAMBUL,  NIKEA, SMYRNA back and all the greek cities and villages in Asia Minor, and WE WERE THERE TIL 1922/3 FROM 500 BC if not long before. SO HOW ABOUT MY CLAIN??? . 
              Ucan take sides in palestinian – israel conflict and that fine, but it has two sides and the palestinians have EVERY RIGHT TO STRUGGLE. A country founded on aparteid as was South Africa, will not stand. 

              • Gail Sheppard says

                Specifically, what are you disagreeing with, Nikos? That what happened to the Palestinians has happened on any given Sunday, to any given people, throughout history? That nations conquer other nations? That at some point, the conquered nation has to move on because they destabilize the region when they fight? That there is any hope that this small group of people who don’t have the means to take on Israel can possibly get back what they had? That it’s hard to support a people who won’t be satisfied until they get a specific outcome and the likelihood of that outcome is nil?

                You haven’t addressed anything I’ve said. Instead, you’ve postulated that I don’t think they have a right to fight back and that I support Israel. You are mistaken. I don’t.

                I never said the Palestinians don’t have the right to struggle. I just don’t want to be part of it.

                • Estonian Slovak says

                  I don’t agree 100% with Nikos, but I think I see where He is going. Leaving aside the horrors of the Holocaust( in which I lost three relatives), if the Jews can get their land back after 2000 years, who can’t Greeks make.a claim on Constantinople? Why is it that Jews, African Americans, and now, apparently, Ukrainians are free to address past grievances, but when the rest of us do it, we are told, ” that was in the past, get over it.”

                  • Gail Sheppard says

                    To me (and I’m speaking only for myself), I don’t see the logic of supporting a Hatfield & McCoy feud where grudges span generations. In their current state, the Palestinians cannot defeat Israel; they can only make them mad and when they get mad, tensions rise and they do unspeakable things to each other. Why would I want to be a part of that? The injustices that are committed are on both sides.

                    Few people know that I was adopted. My birth name was Brichta and several of my relatives were also in the holocaust. One survived. He changed his name to Frank Bright. Now if he were to tell me a group of holocaust survivors were determined to take back Berlin, so he could reclaim the family’s “large villa with a large back garden and large balcony”, I would think he was crazy. No one can recapture their past. What we can do is honor where we are today and praise God for our present circumstances. At least that’s what I’d be teaching my kids. I would not want to bring them up in a war zone where there is constant fighting.


                    When it gets to the point where something like this can happen, it’s gone too far.

                    • Joseph Lipper says

                      The thing about “Israel” is that it’s never formally defined it’s land boundaries. By not formally defining their boundaries, they justify their Zionist expansion by taking over and occupying neighboring lands. It’s still happening and it’s funded by U.S. tax dollars, U.S. military and political support. Just look at the former Syrian territory of Golan Heights. That takeover of Syrian territory was and still is a major breach of international law.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      Hi, Joseph! I’m not big on foreign aid to any country and I think international law became a joke when Bush overrode the United Nations and went into Iraq. Breaches of international law are not uncommon. – I know good people live in Syria but it is also the home of hundreds of terrorist groups and like cockroaches, they come back. Israel is a whole lot closer in proximity than we are and I imagine we’re helping them, militarily, to keep a lid on things.

                    • Gail, the only reason Syria is full of hundreds of terrorist groups is because Israel, USA, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, etc. all funded, trained, and supported them in an attempt to destroy the anti-Zionist popular government of Syria. Prior to that, Syria was the safest place in the Middle East.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      So, when was Syria was the safest place in the Middle East? Was it prior to the Islamist Uprising in the early 80s? Was it prior to when the Sunni Islamists fought the Ba’ath Party-controlled government in 1976? Was it prior to when Syria and Egypt went to war with Israel in 1973? Was it prior to the take over by Hafez al-Assad in 1970? Was it prior to the Six-Day War in 1967 or the Baath Revolution in 1963? When was this tiny little country that is not a whole lot bigger than the State of Oklahoma, the “safest place in the Middle East?” I’m not doubting you, Basil. I just wonder when this was. They only achieved full independence in 1961, right? – Basil, you undoubtedly know more about this than I do, but to an outsider, like me, it looks like they are perpetually immersed in conflict. Surely some of the responsibility lies with them.

                    • Tim R. Mortiss says

                      Why is Israel in the Golan? Why in the West Bank? 
                      I was grown up in 1967 and remember it pretty well.

                    • Monk James Silver says

                      Tim R. Mortiss (August 2, 2019 at 5:52 pm) says:

                      Why is Israel in the Golan? Why in the West Bank?
                      I was grown up in 1967 and remember it pretty well.

                      The Golan, as can be seen from its name, which is Hebrew, was part of Israel from biblical times.

                      What is now sometimes called the ‘West Bank’ is actually Judea and Samaria. Since when were they not a historical part of Israel?

                    • Monk James Silver:

                      “The Golan, as can be seen from its name, which is Hebrew, was part of Israel from biblical times.”
                      Unfortunately the Palestinians do not buy this. They say these are double standards.
                      It would be very helpful for world peace to have universal standards.
                      Just imagine one could say:
                      “By the same token, these places in th US are Red Indian also from …biblical times. Why should Anglos, Spaniards etc  live here?”

                      If you don’t like this example you can find another one.

                      I think there are some International rules but they are not very precise or fair, certainly in applying them.
                      For the rest we are very good Christians.

                    • Monk James Silver says: “What is now sometimes called the ‘West Bank’ is actually Judea and Samaria. Since when were they not a historical part of Israel?”

                      Today’s Jews are descendants of Judeans, not  of Samaritans.  The coast was inhabited by Philistines.
                      Palestian/Canaan cites were inhabited for at least 4000 years, while Jews lived there for no more than 1300 years, and never alone.

                      Here is the map to refresh your memory. The homeland of Jews is in yellow:


                    • Gail, when I said “prior to the civil war,” that’s what I meant. The years immediately running up to the outbreak of the civil war, i.e. the Bashar al-Assad years, were stable and peaceful. Actually, pretty much all through the late 80s and 90s too, i.e. that 30-year block that you ignored.
                      Some comments on this page pretty much sum it up: peaceful, stable, economically improving, but authoritarian and corrupt. I’ll make it clear right now that I’d rather be in a country that’s authoritarian and corrupt, but peaceful and stable, than any so-called democracy where so-called refugees and other criminal elements run wild, burning down parts of the town while the police stand back and do nothing.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      400,000 died in the recent war and there were grandmothers for whom this was the second time around. It all happened on Assad’s watch and his father before him. If that’s stability, I’ll pass.

                    • Monk James Silver says

                      Ioannis (August 3, 2019 at 2:55 am) says:

                      “The Golan, as can be seen from its name, which is Hebrew, was part of Israel from biblical times.”
                      Unfortunately the Palestinians do not buy this. They say these are double standards.
                      It would be very helpful for world peace to have universal standards.
                      Just imagine one could say:
                      “By the same token, these places in th US are Red Indian also from …biblical times. Why should Anglos, Spaniards etc live here?”


                      That’s all very true, but not germane to my point, which was that the ancient name of the Golan remains in place, and that name is a Hebrew name.

                      Other temporary inhabitants (squatters, basically) might have called the area by different names in other languages during the exile of the Jews from their homeland, but the Hebrew name seems to have endured.

                    • Tim R. Mortiss says

                      My point about the Golan and the West Bank has nothing to do with ancient history. It has to do with the 1967 Six-Day war.
                      Israel occupies the Golan because Syria attacked it in that war. It occupies the West Bank because Jordan attacked it in that war.

                    • “400,000 died in the recent war”
                      Gail, for the third time: PRIOR TO THE CIVIL WAR. There were thirty years with no internal unrest or conflict. Not trying to argue that the Assad government is perfect, but the country was, by most accounts, safe and secure between the years of the MB crackdown and the current war.
                      We Americans don;t have much to be proud of really, with our murder and incarceration rates.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      This nation wept when 13 kids were mowed down by the National Guard, leaving 4 dead. I can’t even IMAGINE what it would be like to live in a place where your own government could mow down a hundred thousand civilians.

                    • Gail Sheppard: “400,000 died in the recent war”

                      First, you get this number from the same media
                      that found WMDs in Iraq, make EP
                      an Eastern Pope and Putin the actual head of Electoral
                      Second, large part of victims in this civil
                      war was caused by the Western humanitarian
                      interventionists and their moderate allies
                      on the ground.
                      About mass media:
                      “Don’t believe what you read, and only
                      half what you see”

                    • Monk James Silver: “That’s all very true, but not germane to my point, which was that the ancient name of the Golan remains in place, and that name is a Hebrew name.”

                      “London” is an ancient Latin name, Caesar was a great guy, yet Britons also have rights there.

                    • Gail Sheppard: “I can’t even IMAGINE what it would be like to live in a place where your own government could mow down a hundred thousand civilians.”

                      Same as in Kosovo and Bosnia, where the wicked Serbs run concentration camps with hundreds thousand of victims? Do you remember, Gail?

                    • Gail, we live in a country that has Guantanamo Bay and a president that has promoted waterboarding, i.e. TORTURE. We live in a country that has caused the deaths of probably over a million civilians in our imperialist wars in foreign climes, crushing them under bombs and poisoning future generations with depleted uranium. So, yeah, no need to imagine anything; it’s your reality.
                      We Americans have absolutely no right to point the finger at anyone. Our barbarism is on an industrialized and global scale, while petty ME dictators are merely local.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      Not pointing a finger. Just making an observation.

                    • Martin,
                      “London” is an ancient Latin name, Caesar was a great guy, yet Britons also have rights there.”
                      Indeed Martin.
                      There you have it, even in this blog, we agree on fair Universal Rules, but if it concerns us or US then we find a hidden iota, a digit, or a letter and suddenly the Rule doesn’ t apply to us or US.
                      If there are no Ethics in politics, then there is no Peace, period.
                      Christ is proven true, again and again.

                  • Monk James Silver says

                    Tim R. Mortiss (August 3, 2019 at 11:11 pm) says:

                    My point about the Golan and the West Bank has nothing to do with ancient history. It has to do with the 1967 Six-Day war.Israel occupies the Golan because Syria attacked it in that war. It occupies the West Bank because Jordan attacked it in that war.

                    True, although it’s hard to imagine Israel’s ‘occupying’ its own country.
                    It’s also true that the Israeli armed forces (IDF) have never acted except in self-defense.
                    When Egypt, Syria, and Jordan all swore to annihilate Israel in 1967, as soon as Egyptian forces began to move, Israel preemptively took out the entire Egyptian air force, parked in the Sinai desert while awaiting flight orders.  Syria moved feebly from the northeast, and was repelled by Israel. 
                    Egypt lied to Jordan about air support, already neutralized by Israel,so Jordanian armies invaded from the southeast with no aid from Egypt, and were repelled by Israel.  The Jordanians unceremoniously fled the area and left Jerusalem unguarded, although the IDF were prepared for quite a battle.

                    As it happened, though, the Israelis retook the Old City, including the Temple Mount. and placed their flag atop the Dome of the Rock. Out of sensitivity to Muslim religious feelings, the Israeli flag was quickly removed from that Dome, and other Israeli concessions concerning the Temple Mount followed over the years.

                    Egypt had to admit its embarrassments eventually, and only Jordan made peace with Israel.  That relationship —  while kept delicately in balance —  seems to have been productive ever since.
                    BTW:  Prior to 1970 or so, there were no ‘Palestinians’ except for the Jews, who had borne the title with opprobrium for centuries.  The local Arabs misappropriated the name.  Originally, for example, what we now know as The Jerusalem Post was originally The Palestine Post.

                    • Monk James Silver: “It’s also true that the Israeli armed forces (IDF) have never acted except in self-defense.
                      As almost every expanding power in history. You never expand without providing a reason, and without showing that your opponents are bad. That is how you get good people on your side.
                      At worst, you say that you made a mistake and stay on the course.
                      I don’t think politics is your strong side, Monk James.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      I’m glad you qualified that with “as almost every expanding power in history”. Therein lies the rub: The Israelis are no different that the Americans or the modern Greeks. Hence my own relative indifference to the Middle East.

          • Michael Bauman says

            Basil, what I wrote is to explain why I refuse to get all emotional and demand changes that no one has the power to make while condoning the killing, maiming and destruction of people and property in the name of God. That on going blasphemy against God is what I object too. Christian, Moslem, Jew. All are guilty.

            Talib and all the SJWs out there demanding disinvestment from Israel don’t give a tinkers damn about the Palestinians. All they are interested in is advancing their power at the expense of others. Their political philosophy is Marxist. Guess who gets hurt the most—indigenous Christians. No one, least of all the US State Department, cares anything about us.

            I know how horrible Israel is. The state of Israel should never have been created, but guess what, it was. Uncreating it will cost billions more in blood and treasure. Is that somehow “helping”.

            I also know that the Diocese of Hauran in southern Syria where the founders of my parish came from and to whom we still have familial connections is suffering. I know the bishop there, Met. Saba, a truly Christian man, who is suffering with and for his people. His diocese is in absolute ruin because of the demons unleashed by Obama and his minions. Trump has done nothing to alter the course. Yet, Met. Saba is not “righteously indignant”. He weeps and while still weeping goes out to find ways to support and care for all of the people in his diocese, Christian, Moslem–all of them. In Christ there is do dialectic, no distinction.

            Yeah, Assad is a bad guy too. I get that. Sadam was a really bad guy. All of the so-called Palestinian leaders are bad guys too. The leaders of Israel from Ben-Gurion on have been bad guys. I stipulate all of that. Lebanon had a functional sharing arrangement set up until Israel’s aggression and Syrian interference destroyed that all predicated on “righteous indignation.” They are all like the Queen of Hearts running around demanding the heads of their enemies in the cause of “righteous indignation”.

            Guess who suffered when Sadam was overthrown and as we try to push out Assad, indigenous Christians. The Christian population has declined drastically in Iraq to almost nothing. The indigenous Orthodox Christians of Israel are betrayed by the Greek leaders of their Church and pushed into the arms of the Muslim Palestinians by both the Church and the Israeli government.

            If the Muslim Palestinian leadership were ever to gain ascendency as the ruling party in Israel, or even if lasting peace were miraculously obtained, the Palestinian Christians would be next on their hit list probably in agreement with Israel while being once again abandoned and oppressed by the Greek bishops.

            You want to help? Try supporting In Defense of Christians. I choose to use my limited funds and energy to support the home diocese of my own parish. The rest I can do nothing about except to the extent that I pray, fast and give alms with mercy as I can. Sorry if that sounds pietistic to you, but you are wrong.

            I am also at odds with the entire modern agenda of “Progress” which includes the delusional sanctimonious hypocrisy of Wilsonian Democracy.

            The “Progressives”, as George said, have stolen Christian words and ideals and turned them into garbage to support tyranny and the destruction of genuine faith communities of all types. They literally are doing the work of the devil.

            Bad guys doing bad things while people try to live, work, pray and support their families are killed, maimed, destroyed, etc. etc. My emotions, time, money, etc will do nothing to stop it, least of all supporting corrupt politicians in “righteous indignation” who will only make it worse. There is no political solution, IMO. The rulers there do not want one. By the grace of God maybe my tears and prayers will have an impact somewhere.

            Most of what passes for indignation is neither righteous nor actual indignation. All sides. The ones actually working in a human fashion for other human beings you seldom hear about.

            • All of the so-called Palestinian leaders are bad guys too.
              You have a great ease with judging other people.
              Let us look at one example, and you show me how “bad” this person is:
              Now, to be clear, I have sympathy to both sides of this conflict. Maybe I am an unpractical dreamer, but I would like Israeli Jews and Palestinians to live there in peace and friendship. BTW, I knew a few of each and they were all nice and decent people, (maybe with one exception who was aggressive and judgmental)
              “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.”

              • George Michalopulos says

                To set the record straight: Hanan Ashrawi was the long-term mistress of Peter Jennings. In case you were wondering about how he always found time to travel to the West Bank for his reportage (which was invariably anti-Israeli).

                Just sayin’.

                Personally, I don’t have a dog in this fight (well, that’s not true as my tax dollars speak for me I guess) but it never ceased to amaze me how the Palestinians “never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity”. The Jews on the other hand were infinitely more clever. When the UN partition plan was first proposed, David Ben-Gurion told the Zionist delegates to take whatever piece of land they were offered, “even if it was only the size of a tablecloth”.

                Had the Palestinians accepted the Oslo Accords, they would have had way more land now and the many settlements that were created in the interim would not have been erected. Kinda makes you think, doesn’t it? Was Arafat paid to sabotage the Accords? He did become a billionaire. Hmmm.

                So yeah, my sympathy for them has maxed out.

              • Michael Bauman says

                Martin, me too.

          • Michael Bauman says

            Also Basil, whatever else my argument may be it is not sophistry. Just because you do not believe or accept my conclusion or my premise it is not therefore automatically fallacious, neither is there any intent to deceive.

            It is probably prolix since George and Gail made my point in much more succinct ways. I do tend to verbosity. They also seem to agree with my basic point.

  10. “When I see politicians attempting to create “righteous indignation” against the “oppressor” they are lying. You do realize that the origin of that language comes from Karl Marx, right?
    Gee Michael, I did not realize that Karl Marx was so popular in XVI century. “Ye may se how cruell thay will be in oppressioun of the Poore, hauing cut of you, quhilk, beyng of the mayst nobill and potent Housis of this Realme” (Ane admonition direct to the trew Lordis mantenaris of the Kingis graces authoritie. George Buchanan, 1571)
    Here is my favored:  “‘When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?” (XIV c.)
    Here is the KJV quote: “Thus saith the Lord; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.”

    • George Michalopulos says

      Martin, while you are correct, the fact remains that Marx and his satanic ilk have taken the phronema of the Church (in this case its righteous indignation) and used it for purely secular purposes.

      Basically, when it comes to all secular ideologies, the mask is off: As David Horowitz said several years ago “it’s all about power”. The satanic Bolsheviks used the Orthodox Church when Herr Hitler was invading their land. They turned on a dime, not because they all “came to Jesus” but because they didn’t want to lose their power.

      Similarly in modern America, traditional Christianity has outlived its usefulness. The power vacuum favors one of two outcomes: rigid secularism (which leads to nihilism) or Islamic rule. It’s a coin-toss at this point. At any rate, one of the two will rule.

      It’s all just about a will to power. Period. End of story. (Hence my own growing sympathy to throne-and-altar type of symphonia. Not possible of course without a Christian majority.)

      Is there a way out? It depends if Trumpism is transformational or if it is merely transitional. I suppose but I’m not holding my breath. Personally, I think as far as the US is concerned, all Trump has done is buy us some time. Ironically, I see the possibility for more Trumpian successes in the Old World –especially Great Britain, Australia, Central Europe, Italy, etc. I had written off Greece but I’m emboldened by the fact that that country has broken free from the grips of the the Globalists.

      Fingers crossed.

      • Michael Bauman says

        George, you got it.  Thank you 

      • Deep Steak says

        islamic rule for america is not plausible much less a coin toss future possibility

        an authoritarian christianist fascist future for america on the other hand

        • Joseph Lipper says

          I really don’t see how anybody can conclude that Mohammedism could rule in America.   It’s probably the most stigmatized religion in our country.  The vast majority of Americans do not view it favorably, but rather see it as the religion of enemy countries.   Although it’s presence is growing in America, it currently only represents about 1.1 percent of the population.  

          • George Michalopulos says

            What you say is true. However I for one can foresee a scenario in which Sharia law become predominant in several parts of America.

            Allow me to explain: “tolerance”, “pluralism” and “diversity” are merely the transitions stages between one orthodoxy and another. And both orthodoxies are patriarchal –as is in fact every civilization from time immemorial. These diversities cannot stand on their own or sustain a culture. Two of these pillars are the homosexual agenda and feminism, both of which are nihilistic to the core and neither which can sustain themselves left to their own devices. They need subsidies from exogenous sources. Though they are nonviable in the long term, they still can cause great damage. In the end, they will collapse any civilization which tolerates them.

            Since as Empodecles said “nature abhors a vacuum”, another more rigid and militant civilization will arise to fill said vacuum. As such, I can see Moslem clerics ruling over American sh!tholes such as Detroit and Baltimore. I can see Janissaries in the future slaughtering the thousands of homeless vagrants that are living on the streets of Los Angeles or throwing homosexuals off of buildings in San Francisco.

            Just as circumcision was propagated in the Victorian era to help adolescent males control their urges (i.e. stop them from masturbating), so too, will we see a rise in female circumcision (female genital mutilation –FMG) arise in due time to encourage female chastity.

            Now I’m not predicting any of this, I am just foreseeing the possibility of this happening if our civilization continues to hurtle downward. It can of course reverse itself. The question is: Will it?

  11. Michael Bauman says

    George, you got it.  Thank you.  Many consider Marxism to be similar to heresy as he so wildly misstated the nature of God, man and creation.   
    As the poet said: “To do the right deed for the wrong reason is surely the greatest treason”.

    • Michael Bauman: Many consider Marxism to be similar to heresy as he so wildly misstated the nature of God, man and creation.
      God, man and creation” Good, can you elaborate on each of these three points?
      I have a fourth point. Marx claimed that people’s views are primarily an expression of their group interests, not of the search for objective truth and as such those interests form their beliefs and the culture . The dominating worldview is a justification of the privileges of the dominating class. Care to relate to it?

      • Michael Bauman says

        Martin says: “I have a fourth point. Marx claimed that people’s views are primarily an expression of their group interests, not of the search for objective truth and as such those interests form their beliefs and the culture . The dominating worldview is a justification of the privileges of the dominating class. Care to relate to it?”

        The interrelationship with those around us, especially those we most care about, influence everyone to be sure. But Marx was arguing for historical determinism which I totally reject for so many reasons they are impossible to count. In addition he assumed the primacy of the group over the person to the extent that personhood, as Christians know it, vanishes. That is in violent disagreement with Traditional Christianity and is wholly without merit. Various groups and the oligarchies that control them, especially centralized states tending to the tyrannical, love that idea. It even seems to make its appearance in the Orthodox Church from time to time but that is simply wrong. I would say Patriarch of Constantinople is currently on this page. The primacy of the group over the person is not new with Marx, he just expresses it in a wholly Godless way.

        In addition to God, man and creation; three words are important to understand in what Marx asserts:
        1. culture;
        2. justification;
        2. privilege

        The culture around us in the west at this time is a culture of nihilism succinctly summed up by Nietzsche in his “The Three Metamorphosis of the Spirit” in Thus Spake Zarathrustra. It normally expresses itself in a Christian secularism but it seems to be moving more into the darkness of philosophical materialism and out right rejection of God.

        The rejection of God in and of itself justifies all sorts of immoral, corrupt and evil acts.

        The type of privilege you are speaking of, I assume, is one of wealth, status and power. I would assert that a Christian approach to such things, while acknowledging hierarchy rejects the accumulation of wealth except to use to lift up others; the rejection of “place” since the first will be last; and the use of power for power’s sake. Biblical government is designed to protect those whom are governed, restrain evil and punish it in appropriate ways.

        But again, Martin, you seem to be approaching things in a dialectic and binary manner. In Christ, both the Body and the Person in communion are held in reverence and co-operate with Christ and our brothers toward salvation. Obedience is to Jesus Christ, through the Church but we still retain the freedom the Christ’s victory over death allows us if we enter in to the Bridal Chamber and embrace the Cross.

        There is an historical phenomenon that I have not been able to study or fully process but it is worth noting. The second half of the 19th century, early 20th saw a deluge of ideas and philosophies that are clearly at odds with the revelation of Jesus Christ in the Church. While these philosophies have precursors in earlier times (nothing new under the sun), they were articulated and propagated in particularly virulent form seemingly designed for our time. To name just a few: Marxism/Socialism, Nietzsche’s nihilism; cultural Darwinism, Freudianism, the Science of Mind, Theosophy, Dispensationalism; political Zionism; political progressivism in the US, Wilsonianism, et. al.

        They are interrelated and have one thing in common, revolt against God and the Christian hierarchy in particularly. They seek the destruction of humanity, the subjugation of creation to the elite human will alone to boot.

        Particularly, they all look to destroy and deny the unique person that each of us is by virtue of being created in the image and likeness of God. That uniqueness was only magnified and strengthened by Jesus’s Incarnation, death and Resurrection while fully God and fully man.

        As these ideas became the cultural zeitgeist we suffered through one of the most destructive centuries in our human history: the 20th. While I do not share the premise of Gen. Patton, I can agree with his statement (in the movie at least): God, how I hate the 20th century. Such a revolt can come from only one source: the evil one. At my baptism, I proclaimed my rejection of him and all his ways. My intent to reject him and his ways began in earnest on a January day in 1968 when in desperation, I called out for Jesus Christ to let me know if He were real. For reasons only He knows, He responded to me.

        I am a weak and sinful, selfish and arrogant man but I still haltingly challenge all of the works of the evil one that I see including the current political philosophies of all the parties in the United States. Still, I feel I have a certain responsibility to at least, not be silent during elections. Mostly in the last elections, I voted “none of the above” I gave my vote grudgingly to Trump because of the deplorables remark by Hilary and the Democrat party’s support of abortion and perversion. I had my fill of hypocritical and meaningless “righteous indignation” during the 1960’s. Still…

        Sorry for another prolixity. These thing are neither binary nor linear. There is a multi-dimensional interconnectedness of being that makes it difficult to unpack things in existential ways.

        Briefly, it comes down to the words of St. John, the Apostle and Evangelist: ” Little children love one another.” I see no love in the politics of the modern world even when I am forced to participate in the sin it generates. I work not to live in a state of fear which the elites of this world seek to propagate so that they may rule. I fail at that daily.

        Real culture, real thought and all real life comes only from our continuing encounter with our Lord Jesus Christ in our private closet and in the communion of the Church. That encounter is simple, if we allow it to me.

  12. Thank you, Michael. I would like to be brief.
    First, I am not a Marxist.
    Second, Marx made some important inputs to the human
    understanding that even anticommunists use, without realizing it.
    Same is with Darwin (I am not a Darwinist). It is easy to demolish
    Darwin, for example starting from the fact that Darwin theory does not include genetics.
    The type of privilege you are speaking of, I assume, is one of wealth, status and power. I would assert that a Christian approach to such things, while acknowledging hierarchy rejects the accumulation of wealth except to use to lift up others”
    You mix two things – what is and what should be. As you can see some church hierarchy today use Christian rhetoric to gain more worldly goods.
    It makes me nervous when I see Christians invoking noble principles to buttress neoliberal (free market in US parlance) ideology of Reagan, Thatcher, Limbaugh designed to justify concentration of wealth in the hands of the few and cruel treatment of the poor.
    The neoliberal worldview is a tool to protect particular interests, exactly as Marx said about XIX century liberalism, that starved Irish, forced opium on Chinese, and sent to Heaven 10 million souls from Belgian Kongo, under “good Christian” King Leopold.
    What Jewish Prophets of old would say?

    • Michael Bauman says

      Martin, I never for a minute believed you to be a Marist, but the current crop of US politicians who are caterwauling about Israel are. They are likely not even good Marxists in that they actually studied him or his work They just got indoctrinated into it.

      I too do not like the connection between any economic theories and Christianity. Especially the consumerism/debt based economy that is currently labeled “free market”, but is not. In fact, it is not hard to argue that such an economy is in violation of nearly every Christian principle there is because that is the truth. Consumer debt is a form of serfdom IMO.

      Of course in Marxist countries the wealth gets concentrated in the hands of a few through direct confiscation.

      There is no such thing as a “free market” and no such thing as a capitalist economy at best one might say it is a mixed economy. Actually, the current globalist economic structure most closely resembles a fascist economy (not Nazi BTW) just national socialism.

      A capitalist model assumes too many things about the nature of human beings and how we act in trade and business to hold water for too long. It ignores greed, corruption, irrationality and venality of all types. To work as designed it assumes all parties have access to the same information and can process it properly. Any divergence from that is often written off as “competitive advantage”

      Writ small, it actually works very well because enlightened self-interest dictates care of the poor and the needy. Writ large and the passions take over, as with any economic theory. Even though capitalism is the only widely held economic theory I know of that does allow for growth and creation of new wealth, we human beings still often think as if we were still mercantilists (there is on static pie of ‘wealth’ and the devil take the hindmost).

      Unfortunately, “wealth” has somehow come synonymous with “debt”

      There is no Christian economic theory that I know of. Unfortunately, Marxism adopted the language of the Christian paradigm and took out God, so it can seem quite attractive, seductive even.

      All economics are used as a tool to protect interests. So what? It is not my job to make a better world. It just isn’t. That idea buys into the myth of Progress which modernism preaches. It is a false eschatology. I am responsible for repentance, forgiveness, worship, prayer and almsgiving with a merciful heart. The most likely outcome for me is failure. I am responsible for caring for those in need who I can actually see and touch. Giving aid to brothers and sisters who are in need elsewhere.

      Salvation is intimate, not global. Even though salvation has a cosmic foundation, our participation in it is about embracing my own Cross until I cross the finish line by God’s grace.

      Watch, guard your heart, pray, give alms and implore God’s mercy. Do not trust in the ways of men and the self-proclaimed rulers of men. That just leads into the abyss.

      • Marxism adopted the language of the Christian paradigm and took out God
        To be precise, Marx mind formed in the milieu of liberal Protestantism, where Hegel, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer and Feuerbach thrived. Not so different from New England transcendentalism.
        He believed that Christianity presents the true aspirations and potential of human beings in a compensatory dreaming way, to relieve pain of unjust and unbearable existence by providing a religious painkiller. Remember that he knew the vapid sentimental religiosity of German middle class of his time. Had he known faith of Dostoevsky, we might have got something very different.
        But still, he made some key discoveries in social science, and we should respect that. Same way as we should respect Darwin, without becoming social Darwinists.

        How this might sound to the American ears of the end of XX century, is secondary.

        • Gail Sheppard says

          RE: “To be precise, Marx mind formed in the milieu of liberal Protestantism. . .” I would add that it infiltrated our school systems, as well. I remember when someone first suggested this to me and I thought, “No, this can’t be possible.” But I see it now.

          • Well, I sort of like New England Transcendentalists. Also I like Kant, Hegel, Schopenhauer etc … I like even Husserl and Heidegger. I learned a lot from them all. If I may compare, Saint Paul himself studied Greek pagan culture.
            But I do not like what is happening in the schools.

          • Tim R. Mortiss says

            I suppose that it is just possible that there was such a thing as ‘liberal Protestantism’ when Marx’s mind was formed, but a ‘milieu’ it wasn’t. And I doubt very much Marx’s mind was formed by it.
            Those darn Protestants again….
            I may be wrong, but I like to keep my posts short. That way I only make one or at most two unprovable assertions at a time.

            • Tim R. Mortiss: “I suppose that it is just possible that there was such a thing as ‘liberal Protestantism’ when Marx’s mind was formed, but a ‘milieu’ it wasn’t. And I doubt very much Marx’s mind was formed by it.”

              I just stated the facts. You may look it up:


              or that:


              Either way, I have a well thought view that Marx and Nietzsche and Schopenhauer have roots in liberal Protestant theology of early XIX century Germany, even if such view might be surprising to you. Those are mine own thoughts and insights, and quite likely that others stumbled on the same.

              • Tim R. Mortiss says

                I suppose I’m thinking of liberal American Protestantism, not thick on the ground when Marx was working on his mind. I don’t contest your points otherwise.
                On the other hand, liberal Protestantism, at least in American terms, is mostly defunct, replaced by ‘Progressive Christianity’. Indeed, the mainline US churches left liberal Protestantism, exemplified by Reinhold Niebuhr, long ago. Most contemporary Presbyterian writing, something with which I am familiar, has long characterized the liberal church as the enemy. The conservative church hasn’t been a factor to them for generations.
                Of course, the Orthodox always criticize Protestantism, but they never actually do anything about it.

                • Michael Bauman says

                  Tim, I see your point but in reality every Divine Liturgy is a direct and forceful challenge to the Protestant mind. Every icon venerated and intercessory prayer to a saint, especially the blessed Theotokos chips away at the various Protestant theologies. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see….

                  Unfortunately, every time we elevate ethnic heritage over Jesus Christ and reject other human beings out of pride and apathy, the opposite is done.

                  Lord have mercy on us.

              • Michael Bauman says

                Martin, you got it right.

            • Michael Bauman says

              Tim, I do not know about Marx, but Nietzsche’s father was a Lutheran pastor who did not believe in God effectively.  I do not know if it was “liberal Protestantism” but it was a milleau of lukewarm, legalistic place holders without real faith.  
              So Nietzche grew up with a view of God and Jesus Christ as an ineffectual man who preached surrender. 
              That was a common experience.  IM studied opinion the outbreak of antihuman philosophies in the last part of the 19th century, many coming from Germany, was the result in part of the decline of genuine Christianity which began prior to the Reformation. I do not think it an accident that the geography of the Protestant faith coincides with the area evangelized by Arian missionaries.  
              The long arm of heretical belief flowered in Germany and produced a flood of virulent anti-Christian philosophies.  It is a bit much to lay it all at the feet of the Protestants alone however. 
              Christianity was eviscerated by the religious wars touched off by the Reformation though. Which it turn owes it’s Genesis to the abandonment of the Church by the Papacy and the Catholic Humanist movement. It is a big tangled messy ball.  

              Pat. Bartholomew seems determined to relive the whole thing

              • Michael Bauman: “Tim, I do not know about Marx, but Nietzsche’s father was a Lutheran pastor who did not believe in God effectively.”

                The “Royal Path” to understand great thinkers is to focus on the logic of their thought and general history of ideas. Pop psychology and anecdotal stories from the childhood might explain only the lesser minds.

                • Michael Bauman says

                  Martin, other than the fact that Nietzsche referred to it himself more than once and one of his most noted commentators, Walter Kaufmann, also referenced Nietzsche’s attitude and relationship with his father as formative for Nietzsche’s thought I’d say you were right. But, you are not.

                  The personal experience of Nietzsche is part of a much larger picture of the religious/spiritual/philosophical environment or milieu in which he grew up, matured and practiced his craft.

                  Nietzsche was a sad, lonely misanthrope who quite despised the Christianity of his father. Unfortunately, like most people, he did not attempt to discover a more authentic Christianity. It is neither possible nor desirable to separate a person’s thought from their life. Thought is not an isolated phenomenon, ideas and their consequences are part of the fabric of history itself and are rooted in the personal history of those who articulate them. Are you a Spencerian or something?

                  Nietzsche may have been a “great thinker” but the consequences of his exploration of the demonic mind are truly horrible. The majority of his writings are specifically contra-Christ. Not the real Incarnate Jesus Christ, but the ersatz Christ he leaned from his father. An ersatz Christ that was commonly preached in Germany at that time and for a long time prior. Interestingly enough his work and the work of his followers did a lot to elevate the ersatz Christ to a place of reality. In the process creating a climate in which the only rational response of a thinking person was to reject Jesus Christ and the religion that bears his name. That makes the exploration for the true Christ much more difficult.

                  • Michael Bauman: “Thought is not an isolated phenomenon, ideas and their consequences are part of the fabric of history itself and are rooted in the personal history of those who articulate them. Are you a Spencerian or something? ”

                    Are you a postmodernist or something? Just kidding 🙂

                    If you need to put me in a box, call me a Husserlian. I mean that the value of insights made by a serious thinker is independent from his motives or psychology, nor can be reduced to or deducted from.

                    Think it that way – the value of a piece of gold is not determined by the way you got it or what is your personality. It is determined solely by its weight and purity.

                    The main reason why the background can be helpful, is that it might help to decipher the meaning of the work in question.

                    • Tim R. Mortiss says

                      Yet much argument is in the direct service of interest, as I found in 44 years in and out of  the courtroom.

                    • Tim R. Mortiss: “Yet much argument is in the direct service of interest”
                      What interest you have in mind?

                      What is your interest?
                      “as I found in 44 years in and out of  the courtroom.”

                      What is the evidence?

                    • Michael Bauman says

                      Martin, you are an interesting person. It is no surprise to me that English is not your first language.  The structure of your thought is different.  Me I am just a Kansas boy raised by a couple of deeply intelligent and empathetic parents who were genuine American pioneers. My grandfather homesteaded in eastern New Mexico in 1905.  My father was raised there. My mother participated in the genesis of modern/contemporary dance at Bennington College and went on to dance with Martha Graham and other dance pioneers and was a teacher of the seminal Graham technique for the rest of her life.  Each of them in their own way pointed my brother and me toward an Incarnational life. A life that only reaches fulfillment in the Orthodox Church. A life of interconnectedness and communion.  Nothing is isolated, separate or stands on its own. 

                      I have never read Husserl nor even heard of him before probably because I have never had much interest in phenomenology.  If he indeed postulated some idea that thought and value can be isolated from personal and human experience as you seem to suggest, I will pass.

                      I can tell you that if there is any gold in Nietzsche’s thought it is so buried under tons of slag as to not be worth looking for.  Even taking into account his early work in philology. But even that was skewed by his desire to find a pure Greek thought separate from Christian influence.

                      T.S. Eliot in his play “Murder in the Cathedral” had Beckett reject the temptation of seeking martyrdom for his own glory instead of God’s by saying “To do the right deed for the wrong reason is surely the greatest treason”.  Further, St John Chrysostom in his Paschal homily points out the importance of intent.  

                      Intent is an important part of our life and all of the connections we have to one another.  Especially when it comes to ideas. Ideas have consequences because of connections. 

                      Gold has no intrinsic value other than the life with which God endows it.  That life has a unique particularity but is without human meaning until it is intentionally connected to us and our lives.

                      Nietzsche’s anthropology as with Marx’s is forever dark and destructive because  they were intentionally contra-Christ.That aspect of Nietszche’s thought was highly influenced by what he saw as his father’s hypocrisy and weakness.  Nietzsche’s intent colors his entire corpus. 
                      Without understanding that intent, his work is taken out of context. That lack of context can make what he writes more seductive. I actually experienced that to some extent. It is impossible to understand without grasping at least some semblance of context.

                    • Tim R. Mortiss says

                      I mean only that usually there is more to arguments than their facial merits; that serious arguments are often deployed in the service of interest, and that therefore the interests of a party are often very material to the analysis of his arguments.
                      This is knowledge that I am sure predates Marx by millenia.

    • I just want to say some excellent postings on here  re Marx, nihilism etc.  Well thought out and deep. What makes the blogg shere gold.   I just want to say thank you for everyone with finner minds than mine.  Thank you.  

  13. Іt’s impressivе that you are getting thoughts from thіs post as well as from our dіsсussion maɗe here.