I Don’t Even Know What to Say Anymore Except, “WHY?”

Why are we allowing this? 

According to the Orthodox Times, this was a Eucharistic Synod.  Maybe someone can explain what this means.  What’s a Eucharistic Synod?


The following was posted on Facebook:

Свејерерик Вартоломеј је 6. маја 2023 учествовао у миси у главној катедрали у Салерну заједно са католичким надбискупом Андреом Беландијем.

У свом говору том приликом, старешина Фанара је рекао да су се православци и католици окупили „данас у овој древној катедрали, молећи се и чекајући да једног дана буду заједно око истог Хлеба и исте Чаше“.
Такође се заједно са кардиналом Ђузепеом Беторијем, молио се на служби у католичкој базилици Сан Лоренцо у Фиренци.
Истог дана у Архиепископском двору у Салерну представљен је програм посете фанарског поглавара под називом „Два брата, једна вера“. ?!
Bartholomew is the 6. may 2023 attended mass in the main cathedral in Salerno together with catholic archbishop Andrea Belandi. 
In his speech on the occasion, the elder of Fanar said that Orthodox and Catholics gathered “today in this ancient cathedral, praying and waiting that one day they would be together around the same Bread and the same Glass.”
Also, together with Cardinal Giuseppe Betori, prayed at the service at the Catholic Basilica of San Lorenzo in Florence.
On the same day, in the Archbishop’s Palace in Salern, a program of the visit of the fanar chief titled “Two brothers, one faith” was presented. ?!


    • Thanks, Jane!

      All sorts of alarm bells are going off in my head. Why would the EP be attending a synod for the Catholic Church to talk about anything? Why would it matter to us (the Orthodox) if the Catholics have a more “vibrant Eucharists?” What does that even mean, anyway? I suspect at a “Eucharist Synod” with bishops talking about the Eucharist, they would be taking the Eucharist, as well. That can’t happen!!!!

      I would frankly love to see our two Churches unite, but not this way. Not with Francis and Bartholomew. They’re rushing ahead like it’s just the two of them. Doesn’t he think they should probably had a Council or something?! What about the rest of us? Seriously. Is the Russian Church going to go along with this? No!

      To join with the Catholics, we would have to change our traditions which literally defines what it means to be Orthodox.

      You know how Bartholomew loves throwing around relationship words like Sister Church, Mother Church, Daughter Church? Now Bartholomew has come up with another one. He’s been referring to the Catholic Church as our “elder” Church. What??? Elder usually connotes authority. He can’t give another church authority over us.

      He needs to be told to stop all this.

      • At the risk of seeming tedious, we should remember that there is one and only one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, which is the Holy Orthodox Church and which excludes the heretical confession known as the “Roman Catholic Church (sic)”. So there are not “two Churches” unless you mean, for example, the Church of Russia and the Church of Serbia, etc.

        As for Darth Varth, he is a Uniate. This is not news.

      • What traditions are you referring to when you say we would have to change our traditions?

        • Our traditions exclude those practices and beliefs the Catholics adopted after 1054. If the Orthodox Church accepted these practices and beliefs, it would change our practices and beliefs.

        • Universal, immediate and absolute jurisdiction of the pope, the filioque (at least accepting it as a permissible variant), created grace, papal infallibility, purgatory and indulgences, etc. We’d have to renounce the Photian council (VII) and probably the Palamite council (IX), if we were being honest.

          Two . . . different . . . faiths.

          • Three different roads, as the Queen of Elfland
            pointed out to Thomas the Rhymer:

            ‘ … “O see ye not yon narrow road,
            So thick beset with thorns and briers?
            That is the path of righteousness,
            Tho after it but few enquires.

            “And see ye not that braid braid road,
            That lies across that lily leven?
            That is the path of wickedness,
            Tho some call it the road to heaven.

            “And see not ye that bonny road,
            That winds about the fernie brae?
            That is the road to fair Elfland,
            Where thou and I this night maun gae.

            “But, Thomas, ye maun hold your tongue,
            Whatever ye may hear or see,
            For, if you speak word in Elflyn land,
            Ye’ll neer get back to your ain countrie ….”

            Short version performed by Maddy Prior and Steeleye Span @
            [Video – 07:14]

            And why should Thomas be worried about returning?
            Well, as Tam Lin says to Janet in Tam Lin:


            ” … At the end of every seven years
            They pay a tithe to Hell
            And I’m so fair and full of flesh
            I’m feared ’twill be myself … ”

            Performed by Maddy Prior and Steeleye Span @
            [Video – 10:44]

            And the moral of all this is:
            pick your path carefully…

      • Johannes says

        Our Eucharist has the advantage of delivering the body and blood of Christ to the faithful I’ll take that over “vibrancy” any day. Although virtually every Roman Catholic I’ve ever met thinks the Eastern Rite is more beautiful than theirs, so I don’t even know what this is about.

  1. What’s that hand statue? How come the satanic baphomet statue have the same fingers raised up? Anyone know the significance?

    • It’s the way they hold their fingers, I believe, when they give a blessing.

    • Antiochene Son says

      It’s a stylized version of the ICXC Byzantine blessing hand gesture. It’s in all kinds of icons.

      Let’s not jump instantly to kooky town; if devil worshippers have something it’s because they stole it from Orthodoxy and used it for their own ends. I for one would not want to so hastily risk blaspheming a holy reliquary.

      • Johann Sebastian says

        No it isn’t. The Latin benediction gesture is more closely related to the way we make the Sign of the Cross on ourselves: the fourth and fifth fingers being pulled down to the palm to symbolize the dual nature of Christ incarnate, and the three outstretched fingers symbolizing the Trinity (whereas we bring them together).

        The Orthodox benediction gesture is indeed a stylized ΙΣ-ΧΣ hand sign, which is also similar to the way Old Believers make the Sign of the Cross on themselves.

        Of course there is some superficial similarity between the Orthodox and Latin gestures, so perhaps the latter arose from laziness, misinterpretation, or some lack of manual dexterity on the part of a Roman hierarch. But they are not the same, nor do they symbolize the same thing.

        And there are theories floating around like this one, which reads like a nonsense BuzzFeed trivia article:


        There have also been claims that there is a relationship between our benediction gesture to those found in the Indic religions. And while there is a striking resemblance, the most popular narratives here marginalize the clear Christian meaning behind our use of these gestures and how they served as markers of our belief during times of persecution

        • It’s not old believers benediction. I’ve never seen a bishop in church give it with ring finger and index finger raised. Only the famous Baphomet statue. And what does it mean on the Baphomet statue?

    • CS Louis says

      I think the RC hierarch is holding a reliquary with an arm bone of St. Matthew – since they are celebrating the feast of the translation of his relics.

  2. I agree with your views. I was baptized Catholic. In my late life, I became an Orthodox Christian. I remember when the Vatican turned things upside down in the Catholic Church. All of a sudden you could eat meat on Friday, etc.

    This Eucharistic Synod is a clever way to destroy Russian Orthodoxy. We must look deeply into this synodal “brotherly love.” Francis condones the Great Reset. So does Bartholomew. What love is this without Russian Orthodox?
    It’s all poop! What love is this to create schism in the Ukrainian Orthodox Church? Ha!

    Psalm 139 1-4
    Deliver me, O Lord, from the evil man.
    Rescue me from the unjust man,
    Who devised wrongdoing in their heart.
    They arrayed themselves for war all day long;
    They sharpened their tongue like a serpent;
    The venom of asps was under their lips.

  3. He (Bartholomew) needs to be told to stop all this.

    Gail, I’m thinking that there are Orthodox bishops, priests and laity that have ‘told’ him to stop doing what he’s doing. However, Bartholomew has an agenda, and simply doesn’t care what other people think, or tell him. The man is a loose cannon. I think it’s high time we pretend that he doesn’t exist anymore. (I know, just wishful thinking, but a nice ‘wish’ at that!)

    • You’re right, of course. But there is a way out of this. (See our next piece.)

  4. What does that even mean, anyway?

    Speaking as a former Roman Catholic I can confidently say that belief in the real presence in the Eucharist (within RC’ism) has all but collapsed. They probably need to have a more “vibrant” Eucharist bc even their own people now see it as a symbol. It’s also where you get weird RC practices like eucharistic adoration & exposition.

    That can’t happen!!!!

    The second someone finally gets Bart on camera taking RC communion it’s over for him. This has apparently long been the “last straw” for the Ephraim monasteries.

    Doesn’t he think they should probably had a Council or something?!

    I’d be willing to bet that this is an emphatic “no.” He doesn’t even think we need a council within Orthodoxy to fix the Ukraine schism. He thinks he is above a council. Plus, I’d be very willing to bet that he knows he will come down on the wrong side of a council should one be called about RC-Orthodox “unity” or the OCU.

    Is the Russian Church going to go along with this? No!

    The Churches of Russia, Serbia, Macedonia, majority of Greece, Athos, Bulgaria, Romania, Antioch, Jerusalem, etc., will not go along with this. Basically, if you want to know who will join him, look at who has followed him into schism over the OCU: portions of the Churches of Greece, Cyprus & Alexandria, plus his sycophants in the Fanar. That’s it. From what I understand and have been told by those on the “inside” the majority of laity & clergy within the Churches of Greece & Cyprus are emphatically against the OCU & increasingly if not outright against Bart.

    If no other Church followed him on the OCU, which is an inter-Orthodox issue, there is no way any other Church will follow him to Rome.

    As I’ve said before regarding people who have compared this situation to 1054, you are giving waaay too much credit to the EP and the authority it wields.

    Bart is a Pied Piper who has only managed to charm a few rats into follow him.

  5. Joseph Lipper says

    The EP has a certain responsibility, though, to reach out to hetero-Christians and represent to them the Orthodox faith. The EP simply expressed and gave witness to the words and desire of Christ, “that they all may be one”. This was not an attempt by the EP at intercommunion with a false and heretical ecclesiology. Yet it was certainly a beautiful and appropriate gesture that the relics of the Holy Apostle Matthew were gifted to Patriarch Bartholomew. There is some good will here, and that shouldn’t be thrown out.

    Roman Catholicism will eventually fall apart and perhaps very soon. The fragmentation already began 500 years ago with the Protestant Reformation. Like the current theory of “Russian World” that now arrogates itself globally, Roman Catholicism is simply not a sustainable ecclesiology.

    • George Michalopulos says

      Joseph, at the risk of being disputatious, the EP no such special “responsibility”. To believe that, one would have to believe that he has a special charism that no other bishop has. That’s simply not true.

      Such ideas are novel and arise from his imagination.

      • Joseph Lipper says

        George, all Orthodox Christians have the responsibility to reach out to hetero-Christians, but not all Orthodox Christians are going to be invited over by Roman Catholic bishops.

        I’ve sometimes been aghast when I’ve met Roman Catholics and realize they have absolutely no idea what Orthodox Christianity is.

  6. It’s comin’….. 2025 I think is the year they said.

    This is all geopolitics — the goal is to divide the Orthodox Christian world (“divide” as the world sees it…. the Church itself cannot be divided!) into “good little Orthodox Christians” (i.e., those who follow the modern-day mainstream Roman Catholic Church including all of its messes, rampant homosexuality, and pederasty) and “bad little Orthodox Christians” (i.e., those in communion with the Patriarchate of Moscow).

    The mainstream modern-day Roman Catholic Church is not about faith or religion or growing closeness to Christ — it’s about being used by the poweful and wealthy of the world as a tool toward the “one religion” that will accompany their desired “one world government.” They view the modern RCC essentially as an NGO. And delusional folks in the Patriarchate of C’ple and in the GOA play along.

    One can argue (quite well, I think) that all of this is part and parcel of what the West’s war in Ukraine is all about.

    I’d let it go, Gail. The time is definitely here for each man and woman to choose Who he/she will follow. God gives us free will, and we need to honor that even if some make bad or unhealthy choices.

    We can lament the unhealthy choices that some make, but as 12-step groups wisely advise, sometimes the best thing to do is to detach with love, to take care of our own spiritual lives, to care for those whom we love, and to be available if/when those who wander off ever come back.

    Sorta like the parable of the Prodigal Son…. the Father did not give his son who wandered off some “bad boy” lecture… he simply received him with love. My guess is that there will be many in C’ple/GOA and possibly also in the OCA who wander off but who later come back.

    • I can understand your reasoning, but I can’t let it go. The Church is not this man or this woman. It’s all of us, as in one Catholic Apostolic Church. That’s the way Christ envisioned it.

      • George Michalopulos says

        Neither can I. I view all sincere (i.e. Trinitarian, liturgical, sincere*) Christians as brothers and sisters.

        *By sincere I don’t mean those that argue in bad faith. Enough with the liberals who use the Higher Criticism of the Bible to justify their absurdiites.

    • “It’s not possible to wake someone who is only pretending to sleep.”

  7. I think its a meeting on the discussion of the sacrament of Holy Communion, for whatever that means that is so important.

  8. Before we start wondering, we should have answered the question of “how much”… Money is the primary reason Bartholomew and his “gang” do things. It is widely rumored that since the visit of the previous Pope to Constantinople, a large sum of money is “donated” from Rome to the Phanar annually. This is the main reason why… All else, all other ideological or political reasons mean nothing without money… “Εν τη παλάμη και ούτω βοήσωμεν”, says a proverbial ecclesiastical expression, parodizing a hymn. Which translates as: “First (money) In our hand and only after we will proclaim!”

  9. Ecumenism has confused everyone. The MP and Constantinople hold that Latin and other heterodox sacraments are true and the Latins the same, meaning Christianity are simply made up of “schools” of sects.
    Different teaching means nothing now as they’ve melded into interpretations using mental gymnastics that can appease everyone. For example when I disproved immaculate conception by using their Byzantine rite how in the Annunciation service the Theotokos says she’s overshadowed but the holy Spirit purifying her soul and body , they just say it can be interpreted to have happened at any time. When I tell them she died naturally which cannot happen if she was spared of original sin they say some fathers thought you could, blah blah.
    No mention that Rome needs to drop Florence as a robber synod, that they need to drop their 8th Ecumenical council as a robber synod.
    And what is that statue of a hand with two fingers held up????

  10. Antiochene Son says

    Francis has total contempt for RCs who are trying to hold onto what semblance of tradition their church still possesses. Why on earth should we think Orthodoxy would fare any better in communion with him? Anyone who believes we would be allowed to just merrily retain all of our theology and practices is a fool.

    Francis is one of the most powerful ultramontanist Popes the RCC has ever known. Don’t underestimate his cunning.

  11. Christine says

    Francis is calling all Orthodox home to roost, not just Bart. It’s a deliberate, intentional strategy of folding in as many Orthodox churches as possible under Rome.

    • In complete agreement with you @Christine.
      Patriarch Tawardos II and Patriarch Bartholomew seem to have both drunk from the same Kool-Aid. Both ignoring those that are not in agreement with their pro Catholic overtures. Interesting to know what concessions they are “talking “ about.

  12. “Numerous prominent Catholic voices have even questioned the legitimacy of Francis’ papacy. In fact, as The New American magazine Senior Editor William Jasper, a Catholic, pointed out in 2017, a powerful group of Catholics asked President Trump to launch an investigation into whether the Obama administration, Soros, and other forces were involved in orchestrating a coup against “Pope Emeritus” Benedict XVI.

    Pope Joins Rothschilds and Mega-banks for “Inclusive Capitalism”

    Known as the “Council for Inclusive Capitalism with the Vatican,” leaders involved in the alliance come from organizations claiming to represent more than $10.5 trillion under management, $2.1 trillion in market capitalization, 200 million workers, and offices spread across 163 countries. Some of the most powerful firms, banks, and foundations on Earth are represented.

    In all, there are 27 “Guardians of Inclusive Capitalism” so far. The list includes more than a few that have long promoted homosexuality, transgenderism, abortion, race-mongering, and other sins completely at odds with Catholic teachings and biblical morality. Among them: leaders of the UN, Visa, Bank of America, Johnson & Johnson, BP, MasterCard, Salesforce, the State of California, the Ford Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, and more.


    So Bartholomew and the possibly fake Pope
    get together in a Eucharist Synod to promote the Great Reset “one world religion” because they were told to do so by so by their money masters.

  13. http://byztex.blogspot.com/2023/05/coptic-martyrs-of-libya-added-to.html?m=1

    More proof that Roman Catholicism doesn’t care what you believe as long as you submit to the pope.

    They are recognizing martyrs in a communion (Oriental Orthodox) that doesn’t even agreed to, or adhere to, the dogmas/doctrines.

  14. Setting aside other issues discussed here, the RCC sometimes calls different kinds of gatherings “Eucharistic” if focused on the unity the Eucharist gives. I attended a Eucharistic diocesan conference once years ago that focused on that. The RCC also acknowledges the validity of the Orthodox Eucharist, though we are not in communion with each other. Orthodox observers were at the council of Vatican II and sometimes other kinds of gatherings. But they don’t receive communion there, of their own accord. So it’s not something unusual or nefarious in itself.

    But I completely agree with the point about unity between Bart and Frank: NO!!! It would be a disaster.

  15. rdrjames says

    Next thing you know, they will be canonizing Latimer, Ridley and Cranmer!

  16. Canon XLV of the Holy Apostles

    “Let any Bishop, or Presbyter, or deacon that merely joins in prayer with heretics be suspended, but if he had permitted them to perform any service as Clergymen, let him be deposed.”

    Canon LXV of the Holy Apostles:

    “If any clergymen, or laymen, enter a synagogue of Jews, or of heretics, to pray, let him be both deposed and excommunicated.”

    Canon XXXIII of Laodicia

    “One must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics.”

    The Extraordinary Joint Conference of the Sacred Community on Mount Athos

    Theological dialogue must not in any way be linked with prayer in common, or by joint participation in any liturgical or worship services whatsoever; or in other activities which might create the impression that our Orthodox Church accepts, on the one hand, Roman Catholics as part of the fulness of the Church, or, on the other hand, the Pope as the canonical bishop of Rome. Activities such as these mislead both the fulness of the Orthodox people and the Roman Catholics themselves, fostering among them a mistaken notion as to what Orthodoxy thinks of their teaching.

    • Antiochene Son says

      The Orthodox Church does (and always has since the schism) see Rome differently from other separated groups. Even with the opportunity to do so, we have never set in place an Orthodox Pope of Rome, like we have an Orthodox Pope of Alexandria despite the Copts also having their own bishop with the same title. I don’t fully know the nature of the distinction, but there is one.

      Even after Florence, despite our total rejection and condemnation of Latin theology, the Church has always maintained a ribbon of hope for Rome in a way that it has not for other Christian communions.

      Canons are not self-enforcing, they are tools for the Church to pick up and use when they are needed. As the Church as a whole has never used them with absolute akrivia (functionally banning every conceivable form of prayer with the Latins), it indicates that these lesser kinds of prayer are not what those Canons mean, or at least they are not appropriate for our times.

      We should desire the reunion the Latins with us. We should desire to win them over. Yes, it must be on the basis of Orthodox doctrine. No, bishops should not pretend things are repaired when they are not and skirt the lines of concelebration. But some Orthodox are so extremely against any form of communication with the Latins that there is no way we could ever win them over.

      • Akrivia is the norm, ekonomia is a pastoral exception for a certain circumstance, after which akrivia returns. This is often forgotten in Western Orthodox circles. It is uncanonical to pray with heretics and schismatics – period. There is a reason for these canons. The Fathers took a much dimmer view of heterodoxy than we do in contemporary times. That is our fault, not theirs. It is also the reason that Orthodoxy has found little traction in the West and America in particular. We have not evangelized as if we alone are the Church – period.

        Now, it is certainly true that economy has been at its most liberal in dealing with converts from Roman Catholicism. That, IMHO, has been a mistake. It would be wiser to implement akrivia across the board given all contemporary circumstances.

        I have no desire that the RCC be reconciled with Orthodoxy. What I do desire is that as many individual Roman Catholics as possible abandon their Roman Catholicism and embrace Holy Orthodoxy. But those are two different things.

        There is no institutional solution. Rome is too far gone and corrupt to negotiate their way back to true Orthodoxy.

        PS: There are two very practical reasons why the Church has not enthroned an Orthodox bishop of Rome. Earlier in history, this was impossible due to the relationship of the Italian state to the RCC. Presently, this would put the new Orthodox bishop of Rome ahead of Constantinople, et al., in the diptychs, and they have no intention of doing that as it would cull their power.

        • The reason why there is an Orthodox Pope of Alexandria is because we both share the same list of patriarchs for over 60 years after Chalcedon. Alexandria and Antioch was still part of the empire till the 7th century and Chalcedonian bishops could easily be placed on the throne. In the west the papacy was hijacked by the Carolingian Franks and effectively were no longer part of the Roman empire. Trying to place a Roman Pope in Italy would at best been ignored but more likely any such replacement and supporters would have been burned at the stake. The problem with Orthodoxy is how we always handled Rome with kid gloves. From the early Syriac creed of St Aphrahat the Persian to the liturgy of St. James makes clear the rock of Matt 16.18 is soley the confession of faith with no other interpretation whatsoever. Yet we never chastised bishops and even saints when they utilized this cacodox hyperbole to make an alliance with the pope.
          When the heretical Athanasian Creed ßsprouted up instead of us anathemizing it we tried to make it Orthodox by dropping the Fillioque. Well this Athanasian Creed also does not acknowledge the virgin nor her status as Theotokos, it also does not espouse the monarchia of the Father and we were swept away from the 6th century onward to emphasize the monarchy of the divine essence instead of the Father. We should have squashed this Fillioque from the very beginning. No priest or bishop wants to explain how in Orthodoxy only Orthodox laypeople can baptise in an emergency as heterodox have no grace but at the same time claim validity of heterodox sacraments. Orthodoxy is soft , our bishops and theologuans have an inferiority complex.

  17. Mark E. Fisus says

    “Two brothers one faith” my rear end. The Catholics worship a Father who was put on the Cross, as they confess a Holy Spirit who proceeds from both Father and Son, which would make them the same Hypostasis, because the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.