Randy, one of our commentators, recently brought to our attention that a pan-Orthodox council has been called by Metropolitans Seraphim of Pireus and Seraphim of Kytheria to discuss “Constantinople’s lawlessness in Ukraine.”
The invitations have gone out to all the Local Churches, even the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
As to whether the EP shows up or not is immaterial as far as these two metropolitans are concerned. If he doesn’t show, it won’t be the first time. Early December of 2017, Patriarch Kirill hosted 380 Orthodox bishops from Russia and throughout the world, including representatives from the Slavic countries and the Near East, as well as the ethnic Greek church leaders from Alexandria, Cyprus, Jerusalem, and Albania. Representatives from the entire “canonical” Orthodox world were present, even the OCA. There were two notable exceptions: Bartholomew and Archbishop Ieronymos of Athens.
Thank you to our friends at Ortho Christianity: https://orthochristian.com/125184.html
I’m guessing the OCA was not invited. Even if Metropolitan Tikhon were to receive such a letter, it would immediately belong in the “round file”. If any of the Local Churches were to accept such a letter, then it would acknowledge their own disregard for the Primacy of Archbishop Ieronymos and for the rest of the Church of Greece. Therefore, my guess is that only Patriarch Kyrill will take this letter seriously.
That’s a lot of guessing on your part.
This in no way disregards Archbishop Ieronymos Joseph, in fact it is the one way he can be saved from the hole he has dug himself into. This amazing occurrence could be the one possible way out of the terrible scenario that we find ourselves in. Please dont be a debbie downer.
Also, remember in 2017, one year after the Crete robber council, the MP was able to gather 370 hierarchs from every local church save for Greece and the EP for a meeting/council in Moscow. One thing that everyone can see, whether pro-Ukranian schismatics or anti-Ukranian schismatics is that the venerable Moscow Patriarchate has an incredible amount of influence and sway over the rest of the Orthodox world.
Is that how they have entitled the council? Is petulance a requirement for hierarchs?
Susan, you asked, “Is that how they have entitled the council? Is petulance a requirement for hierarchs?”
If you are referring to the phrase “Constantinople’s lawlessness in Ukraine,” the answer to your question is “No.” The quotation is not in the article on which the article in Orthochristian.com is based.
The original article, which is in Greek, does not use the term “lawlessness.” However, whoever wrote the Orthochristian article used it, saying that “Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus and Metropolitan Seraphim of Kythira have spoken out against Constantinople’s lawlessness in Ukraine many times.” So that writer’s use of the term is his characterization of what the two Metropolitans have been saying.
Mr. Michalopoulos simply quoted what Orthochristian.com wrote, but not what is in the original Greek-language article.
“We must not mind disrespecting men, if by respecting them we offend God.” – St. John Chrysostom.
Is there a pan-Orthodox petition that can be started in support of these two hierarchs and a pan-Orthodox council? I’m sure sometimes we laity feel like we don’t have a voice in the Church, but, traditionally we have been the ones to keep hierarchs accountable and this needs to be one of them.
If we could get the petition in multiple languages that would be great. I’m not 100% certain how to do this, but, if there is someone out there that could that would be great
+Bartholomew of Constantinople & +Ieronymos of Athens, eh?
Given the fact that the EP literally owns half of the Church of Greece, which in reality exists in a hybrid state between autonomy & autocephaly, I doubt this is mere coincidence.
I’ve been waiting a year for this council to be convened. It’s too bad it took the bad decisions of +Ieronymos to precipitate it.
Lord have mercy.
Yes the Church of Greece is in a pretend autocephaly from politics of 1850s but could pretend while Phanar pretended. Phanar, does not pretend any more and is busy calling in it’s collateral.
Watch out USA. Mind u will there be anything worth calling in??
Its about time!
Peter A. Papoutsis
Glory to God in the highest!
“I think that the stand of the Patriarch of Moscow was unacceptable. We do not sever full communion with the Head of a Church because we simply disagree with some of the decisions taken. We sever full communion only with Churches, which become heretic. As far as I know, neither the Ecumenical Patriarch nor the Archbishop of Athens is heretic. However, this does not mean that I agree with them. We tried to help by setting up a meeting, in order to find a solution, but they did not like it. That is why we did not insist. Neither the Ecumenical Patriarch nor the Patriarch of Moscow wants to set up such a meeting. So, the Church of Cyprus decided to take a neutral stand.”
-Archbishop Chrysostomos of Cyprus
https://orthodoxtimes.com/archbishop-of-cyprus-the-stand-taken-by-patriarch-of-moscow-was-unacceptable/
You conveniently missed the part where Archbishop Chrysostomos categorically refuses to commemorate the head of the schismatic “OCU”.
That is a convenient way of saying that he is afraid to do anything. Some of our holy fathers did not differentiate between heretics and schismatics….or looked upon schismatics as worse than heretics! Bartholomew and Ieronymos have celebrated with schismatics, therefore they are schismatics. Soon, the Archbishop of Cyprus will have to make the hard decisions instead of hiding behind neutrality. At least he doesn’t agree with Constantinople. That’s a start.
Mikhail, I believe you’re right the Archbishop is scared, but I believe he’s scared of Moscow reacting in a similar way as with Greece. Cyprus is a big haven for Russian money. It could be highly detrimental to Cyprus if blacklisted by Moscow. So I think the Archbishop’s hands are tied. If he supported the EP’s decision, his own government would probably turn against him.
“Some men have no fear of God; yet they do have fear of the dog.”
It sounds impossible, but maybe Archb.of Cyprus (AC) has another kind of fear of MP: That of knowing that MP is right but he doesn’t want to admit it.
I don’t agree with you Joseph. I believe there are many Churches that fear the vindictive Bartholomew will revoke their autocephaly.
There is no fear of Cyprus losing autocephaly though. Their autocephaly was recognized at the Third Ecumenical Council and then reaffirmed at the Council of Trullo.
Regardless, when Ukrainian autocephaly was granted, Patriarch Bartholomew was clear that neither was the EP threatened by anyone, nor was the EP threatening anyone:
“We are not intimidated by threats. As we recently stated, the Ecumenical Patriarchate neither threatens nor is threatened, but instead advances steadily, fulfilling its sacred mission as stipulated by the sacred canons and respecting the privileges granted by the canons of the Ecumenical Councils. We cannot ignore these canons and privileges granted by the Ecumenical Councils to the First-Throne Church of Constantinople. We respect and preserve them, and we shall implement them in the case of Ukraine and wherever else necessary.”
https://www.archons.org/-/ep-ukraine-statement
Joseph, this is a completely roseate view of the EP’s actions. First of all, under these papalist sentiments, the EP can (in his mind) revoke any autocephaly, even of a church that preceded the Ecumenical Councils (e.g. Antioch) or had its autocephaly granted by an EC (e.g. Cyprus).
Why do I say this? The EP has not threatened the autocephaly of Antioch per se but has threatened to “intervene” on behalf of factions in Lebanon and threatened to reconfigure the boundaries of Antioch. He already did that with the Qatar mess. Don’t forget, the northern half of Cyprus now belongs to Turkey; as such he can limit the boundaries of Cyprus’ church.
Quite clearly, the EP lives in an Alice in Wonderland world in which his whims of the moment constitute “proper” ecclesiology and/or canonicity. Don’t believe me? Go back to the preambles of the Cretan Robber Council; the words are clearly stated that all local Church are “sister Churches” with no one primate being superior to the other. There was no talk of “primacy without equals” at the time. Worse, Fr Alex Karloutsos, the spokesman for the EP clearly stated that Ukraine was a legal archdiocese of the Moscow patriarchate and that there was no intention of disrupting Moscow’s integrity.
I could go on and it pains me to say this, but the EP has gone rogue. I fear that he fears that he is losing control of the situation.
Was Cyprus neutral when this Ecumenical Patriarch broke communion with the Greek Church in 2004?
Met. Eustathios of Sparta: The Head of the Church on Earth is the Ecumenical Patriarch.
This is title of an article Published in “Orthodoxos Typos” (Orthodox Press).
At the and of the article the newspaper asks:
(Semiautomatic translation)
:……“We ask: Whence does it follow that the Patriarchate has a “coordinating role”? From the Turkish occupation? Is the existence of a “coordinating role” inherent in Orthodoxy? Where is it written that there is a “head of the church” on the earth, and indeed that it is the “Ecumenical Patriarch”? Which Father of the Church or Synod says that there is a “seat of Orthodoxy”? Is it Orthodox that he is “Head of State”, that is to say, to have political power? Is the “navel of Orthodoxy” there where the Patriarchate of Constantinople is transferred? Is there a “navel of the Church”? Only the Pope believes that he is the Head of the Church on Earth and Head of State.”
Source:http://orthodoxostypos.gr/%CF%83%CF%80%CE%AC%CF%81%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%BA%CE%B5%CF%86%CE%B1%CE%BB%E1%BD%B4-%CF%84%E1%BF%86%CF%82-%E1%BC%90%CE%BA%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82-%E1%BD%81-%CE%BF%E1%BC%B0%CE%BA/
To say that the EP or any patriarch is the “head of the Church on earth” is to road to papalism, i.e., “first without equals”. It is not Orthodox.
Exactly Michael!
And to think that this Met. was supposedly one of the so-called “serious” ones. It appears it was just a pretty face or indeed a mask.
Lord have mercy!
Interview of Met.Eustathios about the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
An interesting transcript extract, translated semiautomaticaly.
Starting at 16:48
“..In the election of the present Patriarch, a lot of things happened, and the Turks deleted, from the list of candidates, all those who were very important and did not expect that the present Patriarch would be made, like the previous one too…”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1025&v=bBIR-1PugmI
That the EP serves de facto at the pleasure of the Turkish President (in their minds, the successor of the Roman Emperor) should be enough to throw the entire mess into question.
Bartholomew is on the war path. He is going down with the ship no matter the stance of the other Churches. This is what he said on Sunday November 3, 2019. He truly believes he is the Eastern Pope. You will notice that he is guilty of everything in which he accuses the “ignorant sons and daughters.”
“…And within this system and organization, Constantinople holds the first position, a service as we have said, which position, with all its privileges and rights, her ignorant sons and daughters have endeavored to dispense with, moving against their benefactor. They are disputing both divine and secular laws, steeped in the centuries, in an attempt to satisfy human ambition and political expediency. But their efforts are in vain! Because Orthodox ecclesiology and the canonical order of the Church, do not change, and the gates of hell do not prevail against the Church. They are so deeply rooted in the two-thousand-year history of Christianity that no one can uproot them, as strong and robust as he is, or thinks he is, against the entire world and against God.”
Who knew that Christ gave the keys of the kingdom to the Metropolitan of Heraclea?
George,
it is about time you or somebody else on that side of the Atlantic wrote a totally unusual document to assist the Greeks in Greece in this emerging situation. After all, many American Greeks still have some family in Greece and they wnat the best for them :
What are the “isolated” Greeks to do in this new situation? They may live e.g. in Athens or a another big Greek city and their (Arch)bishop is with Bartholomew and the Ukraine Schismatics.What are the various (temporary?) alternatives to people and pros and cons?
-Keep going to the same temples/parishes as before.
-ditto, except when the Bishop is present.
-not go to church until they can travel to another Metropol (some hours driving).
-go to Old-Calender churches.
-Other ideas.
-There is a Russian church in Athens but not in (many) other cities. .
Why invent the wheel again, if you have had so many years of experience in the US?
Perhaps we should create new Russian churches in Greece belonging to the Patriarch of Moscow to accommodate those few of you who feel your Russophilia is connected in anyway to the salvation of your soul. All the above are laughable arguments from an obvious minion of the Russians. Perhaps we should create Greek churches in Russia for all those who oppose Kyrill. Perhaps we should have a Church of Belorussia, and a Church of Kazakhstan, and a Church of Ossetia, and a Church Siberia, while we are at it.
By the way George, why did you delete all my comments? You don’t exactly prove any credibility by resorting to such tactics. On the contrary, you prove that you have lost the argument. I don’t think you will have much success trying to silence the opposition. On the contrary it will probably backfire, we might use the same tactics for all you Russophiles/Anti-Patriarchates in Greece. Trust me, you won’t be happy with those results. Did I also mention that I can keep posting under different names, different emails, different locations? Laughs.. You haven’t thought about that through.
Why are you so angry?
Cons. perhaps, just perhaps, your comments were deleted because they were diatribes in a spirit of anger that prove nothing other than the poverty of your own position. Maybe George wanted to shield your from yourself.
Cons.,
“Perhaps we should create new Russian churches in Greece belonging to the Patriarch of Moscow to accommodate those few of you who feel your Russophilia is connected in anyway to the salvation of your soul”
(highlighting mine)
“You” should not create anything. They people who have paid for so many Orthodox temples in Greece, will again pay for new temples because the “mother” church takes hold of the “daughter’s” temples and on purpose forgets that in the autocepally of 1850 the “mother” Church said that Greece s not daughter any more but SISTER! I am sure you have read my post with Fr.Metallinos’s words.
.
Just how do you know they are FEW?
.
Russophilia: Are you an expert in psychology and you have made a remote diagnosis? Or is it rather a “clever” move from the ecclesiastical substance/importance to ethno/polemics?
Show me right here, right now two things MP as done worse than Bartholomew’s:
Gifting the “Holy Quran” which rejects the Holy Trinity, the Crucifiction and Resurrection
In Absentia excommunicating N.Sotiropoulos for criticising anti-christian comments by a bishop
Read the open letter by Monk Gabriel, I trust you speek fluent Greek even better than Bartholomew:
https://tasthyras.wordpress.com/2019/11/04/%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%84%CE%AE-%CE%B5%CF%80%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%AE-%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CF%82-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD-%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA-%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%AC%CF%81/ ConsIoannis
C’ple,
The thing is, Christians just don’t buy this “Greece vs Russia” narrative that you’re pushing and that many rationalizers for the church of C’ple’s behavior also seem to be pushing.
What Christians want is fidelity to Christ and to His Church, not the “legitimization” of schismatics who actively persecute the faithful church, and not preferential cozying up to the Vatican or to secular governments, rather than building bonds with your fellow Orthodox Christian brothers in Christ.
Feel free to continue pushing the “Greece vs Russia” narrative, which also seems to be popular among the State Dept operatives who are funding C’ple’s “OCU” creation. But by all means know that Orthodox Christians aren’t buying it or listening to it.
Cpole, just for your info, we here at Monomakhos have had a lively discussion regarding your continued participation. In the end, we decided that your supremacist, bigoted comments serve a purpose: to let other Orthodox Christians the level of fear and frustration that the Phanariotes are experiencing because of the EP’s maladroitness.
Keep on keelin’ on.
George:
Unlike myself, you are too much of a gentleman for your own good. As a student of history, you must know that old “Honest Abe” won the War of Northern Aggression because he shut down newspapers, threw people in jail, and curtailed freedom of the press. Jeff Davis didn’t do these things; we know what happened to him.
Likewise, Tsar Martyr Nicholas was far too lenient with his enemies. The attacks against him remind me of the attacks against President Trump right now. I guess I’m fired up, because I’m listening to Michael Savage right now. Then, the world cheered when the Tsar was butchered together with his wife and children. Now, leftists openly call for the President’s son to be locked up with pedophiles. Speaking of locked up, it was Obama who ordered illegals put in cages. Will we hear that from the mainstream media? You know that better than I do.
ES, I appreciate being called “too much of a gentleman”!
Of course, you are absolutely correct about “Honest Abe”, like Lenin, he played for keeps. The only saving graces I can give him are two:
1. He refused to take foreign money to put down Southron independence (which like Andrew Jackson and later JFK, caused the internationalist bankers to put the hit on him), and
2. He had no intention of enacting “victor’s justice” on the South.
Had he lived, the horrors of Reconstruction would not have been enacted or at the very least would have been lessened significantly. As it were, his Democrat VP and successor (Andrew Johnson) tried to mitigate the genocidal fury of the Radical Republicans. (Not to say that Johnson didn’t have serious defects but –as a Southerner–he tried as much as possible to override the Reconstructionists’ most egregious actions.)
As for the Tsar-martyr, I too, long imbibed the mendacious history put out by the Left. He was not perfect, perhaps a little too timorous for his own good but he was not the monster that Lenin and his acolytes in the West made him out to be.
Of course your assessment of modern Leftists and their complete and utter derangement is spot-on.
The Russian Holy Synod has said openly that the sacraments of Constantinople and Greece remain valid. In my opinion, going into schism (communing in Old Calendar schismatic churches) is not an option; it would be no better than attending an OCU parish.
If I were in that situation, I would probably attend a canonical parish, but I would withhold my tithe and save it until this mess is sorted out. I know the Greek Church is government-funded so it doesn’t matter as much, but it’s all an individual can do.
Antiochene Son, Please post the source for what you say. I do not disbelieve you, but I would like to know the source so that I can share it with others.
blimbax,
It is somewhere on orthochristian.com. I read it myself. Should have saved it but didn’t, and now can’t seem to find it or I would have posted it here for you.
Unlike what the propaganda from the CP would have us believe of the MP, it was measured, wise, and very Christian in tone. Not radical at all. Not condemning of anyone who happens to find himself under the CP. Not seeking to divide. It spoke of the MP’s measures as being – I believe the word was – “disciplinary” (or a similar idea) as in, intended to bring Bartholomew to his Christian and hierarchical senses).
I hope someone finds it and posts it because there are some here who need to hear it. It is one thing to stand against the actions of Bartholomew; it is quite another to anathematize those who, through no fault of their own, are under his jurisdiction. As we all keep saying, Bartholomew is not a Pope; and his madness doesn’t define the boundaries of the Church.
Despite OrthoChristian’s horrible search function, I was able to find it with Google: https://orthochristian.com/125002.html
As long as a cleric is not defrocked, but only deserves it, the Sacraments he celebrates are considered valid—even if he sinfully dares to celebrate them while being suspended (but not yet defrocked!). For this there is canonical defrocking, which puts a final limit on the rites of such a person. Therefore, Patriarch Bartholomew, not to mention the hierarchs and clerics who serve with him, is not devoid of grace in the Sacraments he celebrates, even serving with the layman Sergei Dumenko (Epiphany). Although he grievously sins thereby, and is, undoubtedly, subject to ecclesiastical court. But that hasn’t happened yet.
I was mistaken in saying it was the Holy Synod, but the publishing of this interview by a Russian Church publication would indicate it is in line with church policy.
In other words, heresy is not a communicable disease that spreads through communion. (Which is why Old Calendar schismatics get it all wrong; St. Cyril was in communion with Antioch when Antioch was in communion with Nestorius; does this make St. Cyril a heretic? Of course not.)
Thanks for finding and posting the link.
Does this mean, among other things, that a lay member of the Church of Greece or of the GOA can receive communion in the Russian Church?
The Russian Holy Synod put out a document on their English language website when they severed communion. If I recall correctly, a Greek/EP layman is allowed to receive communion in a Russian/ROCOR parish, but a Russian/ROCOR layman is not allowed to receive in a Greek/EP parish.
Antiochene Son (November 6, 2019 at 7:16 am) says:
Despite OrthoChristian’s horrible search function, I was able to find it with Google: https://orthochristian.com/125002.html
As long as a cleric is not defrocked, but only deserves it, the Sacraments he celebrates are considered valid—even if he sinfully dares to celebrate them while being suspended (but not yet defrocked!). For this there is canonical defrocking, which puts a final limit on the rites of such a person. Therefore, Patriarch Bartholomew, not to mention the hierarchs and clerics who serve with him, is not devoid of grace in the Sacraments he celebrates, even serving with the layman Sergei Dumenko (Epiphany). Although he grievously sins thereby, and is, undoubtedly, subject to ecclesiastical court. But that hasn’t happened yet.
SNIP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the canonical tradition of The Church, a priest who dares to officiate while under suspension is automatically deposed from the priesthood. No formal process is necessary.
That rule has not been changed, in spite of the statement quoted here, which — in addition to that error — also uses some really strange heterodox vocabulary.
Yes, I did wonder about that.
But to the larger point, I think his point is that the EP has not been formally charged with heresy, nor has he been suspended by his Holy Synod or a Council, so grace is still found in the EP’s sacraments, even though Bartholomew himself may be personally sinning if he has departed from the Church’s position. The same with other hierarchs.
Where Bartholomew puts himself in serious danger is that he has placed the blessing of his office upon a “church” that has few if any validly-ordained clergy, and whose primate is, canonically, a layman. If Epiphany is leading his “flock” into sacrilege (simulating the Divine Liturgy) on a daily basis, and Bartholomew is his teeth, then Bartholomew is personally responsible for the destruction of many thousands of souls.
Not a position I would want to be in, especially as an elderly man who may be called to stand before Christ at any time to give an account.
Seriously, if Bartholomew had even just ordained Epiphany before giving the autocephaly, he would have a much stronger case. But as it stands, the Lord has allowed these events so that it is obvious and clear what has happened.
Nicole shared this yesterday. Back in 1962, SCOBA recommended the same thing. If Bartholomew loved the Church, he would have ordained them. He didn’t.
https://orthodoxsynaxis.org/2019/11/07/scoba-resolution-on-the-ukrainian-autocephalous-church/
Ioannis. Yes there is a Russian church in Athens. AGHIA TRIADA in centre by Zappeio and beautiful 10c byzantine churches it is and its services are in slavonic and greek with superb Russian style choir. But it is naturally up to now
under Church of Greece.
I assume now the Church of Russia will open churches in Greece as many russians living in Greece and many many tourists.
Below please find a “Letter to the Editor” from Friday in The National Herald, by Theodore G. Karakostas, Boston, MA.
Letter to the Editor: Response to Kalmoukos Article on Epiphanios
November 1, 2019
https://www.thenationalherald.com/266761/letter-to-the-editor-response-to-kalmoukos-article/
The above “Letter to the Editor,” by Mr. Karakostas, is in response to the below article from October 17th, which appeared in The National Herald. Unfortunately, the article is locked and doesn’t appear in its entirety. I will continue to be on the lookout for the article in its entirely, and if found, I will post.
Metropolitan Epiphanios of Kiev Will be Honored with Archon’s Athenagoras Human Rights Award
By Theodore Kalmoukos
October 17, 2019
https://www.thenationalherald.com/264720/metropolitan-epiphanios-of-kiev-will-be-honored-with-archons-athenagoras-human-rights-award/
I believe the Russian Church in Athens, St. Seraphim of Sarov, many decades ago was forced to come under the Church of Greece
Peter. Yes it was but to be fair it should have been as on greek church territory and at time present situation not existing There is also from 1920s the 10c byzantine church of Holy Trinity in central Athens but again within greek church. I presume now church of Russia will open churches in Greece, hopefully. And soon!!
Below please find two articles from the Oxiday website.
The Non-Human Rights Award
http://www.oxiday.com/post/the-non-human-rights-award
“Protecting religious rights” Could not fill half the room!
http://www.oxiday.com/post/archon-epic-fail-protecting-religious-rights-could-not-fill-half-the-room
Below please find an article from today in The National Herald.
Archbishop Elpidophoros Visits OCA Headquarters
By TNH Staff
November 12, 2019
https://www.thenationalherald.com/268076/archbishop-elpidophoros-visits-oca-headquarters/
Whenever I read missives such as this I worry that the day in which I will receive a bottle of single-malt scotch is fast approaching. Never more did I desire to not win such a bet. Alas.
However, in reading the particular news-story above, hope increases that it is I who will send the bottle instead. In reading between the lines, it seems that Arb Elpi has stressed the need to maintain “Eucharistic concelebration as a cornerstone of our unity”. This indicates to me that the Phanar is worried that the OCA will break communion with the GOA because of their criminal actions in Ukraine. (Personally, I think we should do so simply on principle.)
If so, this tells us that administrative unity is moribund for the time being (which is a good thing). It also tells us that the leverage of the OCA has increased significantly. If nothing else, the EP is scared that the EAUSA will come to naught if the OCA decides to leave. Presently, it is merely a cordial meeting between the bishops of the GOA and OCA. Antioch, ROCOR and the MP have left. I’m not sure if the other patriarchal jurisdictions even attend any more.
The question therefore is this: is Syosset smart enough to realize that it is they which holds the whip hand presently?
No, they aren’t and they don’t know how to do anything with an advantage. Something lacking in the culture precludes worldly smarts and successful church politicking.
Below please find an article from yesterday in The National Herald, by Mr. Nicholas Karakas of Naples, Florida.
Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops is a Failure
By Nicholas Karakas
November 11, 2019
https://www.thenationalherald.com/267988/assembly-of-canonical-orthodox-bishops-is-a-failure/
Interesting article but the author misses the key point that the EP’s insistence on being first and running the show is the heart of the problem. The GOA needs to set the standard and unite UNDER the OCA. THEN you will see the dream that was articulated at Ligonier, but SQUASHED by the EP, realized.
The following statement is also incorrect:
“…It appears that our ethnic jurisdictions in America, their stone-walling unity because they fear they would end up being swallowed by the GOC, a position they despise which would require them to publicly begin preaching Christ as their much early exemplary missionaries and prophets….”
Rather those outside the GOA fear the rampant secularism in the GOA and the average Greek’s ethnic chauvinism and tendency to be Greek first and Orthodox second is offensive and deeply troubling.
The EP is the source of disunity in the New World. The Episcopal Assemblies were a failure from the outset when it was insisted the EP bishops be first “…in accordance with the dyptichs…”. Yeah, good luck with that.
Why would bishops need to be under 75? And why is that schismatic Elpidoforos called A.B.?
Until Orthodox in America figure out they are temporary sojourners in Anerica. That our parishes are metochions (that alone rids us of worrying of being guilty of the phyletist heresy and any argument of not following canons. As if today’s bishops and laity care about canons)). A unified church is not in our interests, this is too large and too fragmented of a continent to have a single church and single territories. These nonsensical articles with hidden agendas will keep appearing, and how do I know they have hidden agendas? Because anything coming from a Greek rag reeks of ethnophyletism and the western culture of human secularism
Gus I am Greek AND I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY. I spent a life time working in Uk NHS where i constantly heard talk of systems but no regard as to what went in them.
No one seemed to get it that you can dig the( yes needed) irrigation ditches to take the water flow, but if there ain’t any water, or it’s flowing in other directions,??? You get the point? .
So yes one big organization and same dead crap, liturgical chaos and what ever gets us. It is what goes into the organization that counts. And if it is as now, forget it!
Elpidophoros ( it’s his job future after all!!! when bartholomaios kick the bucket) is wanting an EP world church made up of all those so called diaspora churches of Europe and Australia etc as barbarian territory , including u guys in USA. Why Phanar forbad it’s new Ukrainian cash cow any diaspora parishes. And with weakened autocephaly understanding to interfering in the other churches as he wishes.
Why Filaret, ha. A crook. OURCROOKED!!! ? HILARIOUS. Any way why he is kicking back. EP may make him a defender of Orthodoxy yet!!!
FOLKS, ITS ABOUT POWER AND MONEY MASQUERADING UNDER PIOUS CRAP.
Re philaret, that is a possible future defender of Orthodoxy, AS A LAYMAN OBVIOUSLY!!! ?
Niko I’m greek as well. I dont know about outside of the U.S.A but the EP already has multiple overlapping jurisdictions under him. The EP is a conglomerate where numerous sects operate under his umbrella. While the GOA is the big one, he also has the Carpatho-Russian churches, the Ukranian Churches, something called the Jerusalem Vicariate, and even a seperate Greek jurisdiction from the GOARCH with as many as 5000 members which is a metochion. Basically a vagante monastery originally based on the old calendar which had 4 satelite greek parishes that made an agreement to be under the EP but not under the Greek archdiocese.
Gus,
the important thing is not dogma, ethnicity or what have you,
it is
“I AM THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH,
JUST LIKE MY BROTHER FRANCIS!”
Sorry Ioannis, but, ignoring ethnicity, which doesn’t count, Orthodoxy and orthopraxy define what it means to truly be a Christian, as the body of Christ, personified in the Orthodox Church, has become the New Israel, Christ the new Adam, the Theotokos the New Eve and the Jerusalem on earth has been replaced by the Jerusalem on high.
Alitheia, I am sorry,
I don’t see the connection with my words.
Please clarify.
Gus, γειά σας φίλε από την Βουλγαρία . I know EP has. I used to think, as a greek that this was a wonderful thing. An example of multi ethnicity and generous support of groups in difficult times . And even one way of greater unity in diaspora until one saw what he did to the european Russian exarchate and to understand that it is unity in a papal sense and greek domination, and that said by me as a Greek!!
Now under this Patriarch., And I really do believe this Patriarch is different to what has gone before. Not that for last 100 yrs it has been good, but under Bartholomaios, we see a definitely papal type ideology arising. After all look where he studied and elpidophoros too, who will be worse. And above a greek superiority mentality, as one Orthodox race ‘ above equals’. Where do the words of St Paul fit in there?.
I had wanted to go back to an issue, that is of Ukraine. So will raise it here. We need to stand back and see things in context of bigger picture. Since the fall of Constantinople the EP has been engaged in how best to maintain the power and influence of said EP..Now on a human level one can understand fully and while EP was one of millions of actual believers in Ottoman empire in what is now Turkey etc, it made a kind of sense. But from 1923 with loss of this flock and loss of the Balkans to national Churches, the EP has cast about to find a way of being relevent and a power player in the ways we have seen over last 100 yrs by indulging west and seeking to enhance it’s ‘ supra national’ status. AT ANY COST!!!! just as Catholic PAPACY did in post 1870 Italy with formal infalibity. Something that had been implied but not until then, formally stated as dogma.
And WE need to look at the events in Russia in early 1920s in this light, where Lenin sought to destroy the Russian Patriarchate and St Tikhon, by support of the revisionist ‘ living church’ .
Now not everything the ‘living church’ people proposed was a bad thing in itself, but that not the issue. But over all with it’s pro – communist adulation, married bishops, altered liturgy and as good as shaven clergy, known in villages as ‘ red and clipped, ‘ and its corrupt sect type leaders and persecution of Tikhon and the Church, a disgusting pathetic communist pleasing organization, even if round the edges there were well meaning laity and clerics who hoped it might be a way forward in communist USSR, just as maybe there are same in Ukraine today in their situation. These in 1920s, quickly understood their mistake, and repented, publically it might be added, and were re- ordained etc if needed.
Again very relevent with Ukraine today. And even communist power lost interest and it was, never supported by the believing Russian and Ukrainian peoples who remained, especially in Russia itself, faithful to the Patriarchal Church . It died out, literally with communist help!! And or repented, and returned to the Patriarchal Russian Orthodox Church.
But what is even more relevent here, is the part the EP played. I had always known that from 1923/4 the EP had recognised ‘living church’ as THE OFFICIAL Russian church and requested Tikhon to resign and go to a monastery. But what I did not know is that the EP through it’s dubious representatives in USSR, who were only interested in their own personal creature comforts and advancing EP worldly power in the new situation of post 1923 reality, but that through these creatures , EP played an active supporting role in the ‘living church’, as putting it forward as the NEW and ONLY church in USSR, ignoring Tikhon etc as if did not exist. It’s so uncanily relevent to current situation as to be frightening. All of course at same time as calander change. Again it’s not calander per se , and I, in fact personally am not hooked on to any calander, but of the issues around it. But that is another discussion ,not for now.
There is really much in common between events of 1923-28 and now with Ukraine.
As an aside you may not know, I hope you do,but of the pivotal positive role the Russian church played in pre 1917 formation of Orthodox church in USA and major use of english etc and multi ethnic SINGLE CHURCH but respecting,Greek, Arab etc etc, Culture and tradition, within one church structure with ethnic bishops. And the part that Tikhon in early yrs of last century as head of the American Church, played in this?
All relevent to now and the fact the corrupt Phanar is willing to SACRIFICE YOU AND UKRAINIAN CHURCH for it’s short Term worldly CORRUPT INTERESTS and now in real danger of falling in to heresy. Anathema, ANAXIOS! ;
Those Churches going along with Ukrainian situation, such as Greek and now of Alexandria, may only see themselves agreeing to an action supported by byzantine canons and church usage, as seen from the Bosphrus. But as with western churches a 1000 yrs ago, they are on the road to agreeing papal heresy, for short term delusional worldly gain.
The statement about those bishops needing to be retired is absolutely ludicrous… “apart from our AB.”
Metropolitan Tikhon is only about 4 years older that Ephialtophoros, and the small Georgian bishop is a relative spring chicken by the looks of things. I doubt any of these hierarchs are over 75.
Yellow journalism!
Lol, exactly. Greek journalists tend to be slimeballs. The only thing I can think of Langis Theia journalist thinks the 75 year rule is the Latin practice of retiring their bishops. In other words this guy doesnt even know the practises of the Orthodox church.
Secondly Elpidoforos does not look youthful compared to the rest, he looks older in fact. He also looks creepy always having that fake smile for the photo ops as if he is showing his pearly whites to a dentist.
It’s also funny how everyone is concerned over violating canons of overlapping jurisdiction when they violate every other canon on the books.
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~ Greek Orthodox Archimandrite