Lest anyone think that the New World Order (NWO) crusade against Russia is based Vladimir Putin being nasty to gays or on differences between political ideologies, please take the time to read these alarming words by Carl Bildt, Sweden’s Foreign Minister.
Bildt is merely reiterating what Zbibgniew Brzinski recently said: “Orthodoxy is the Enemy.” (Is it something in the NWO water that makes elites hate traditional Christianity?) In a way, we ought to be thankful for this frankness –it’s clarifying to say the least. One can only hope that other traditional Christians will have the secular-humanist scales fall from their eyes as well.
“For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12).
Source: Agora Dialogue
REX: Carl Bildt thinks Eastern Orthodoxy is main threat to western civilisation
Stockholm. Carl Bildt, Sweden’s Minister for Foreign Affairs and one of the architects of the EU Eastern policy, thinks Russia has changed for the worse in the past several years. While it demonstrated attachment to western values in the first decade after the Soviet Union fell apart and tried to impose them on its citizens, Russia’s current leadership takes a firm stand against the West, the Russian agency REX reported.
In the words of Mr Bildt, Vladimir Putin demonstrates attachment not to world but to Eastern Orthodox values, which becomes clear from a Twitter post of his [Bildt’s].
”The new anti-west and anti-decadent line [of conduct] of Putin is based on the deep conservatism of Eastern Orthodox ideas,” Carl Bildt is convinced.
The Swedish minister explains the striving to destroy the Ukrainian church and bring the Ukrainian autocephaly back into the fold of the Moscow Patriarchate with Putin’s striving to gain control over Ukraine. But precisely Eastern Orthodoxy, according to Bildt, is the main threat to western civilisation.
The original tweet:
(https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/448069450437513216)
It is left as an exercise for the reader as to how much exaggeration and distortion has been given to these words by the Russian source George Michalopulos has reposted.
Among other things, Mr. Michalopulos republished not the actual tweet of Mr. Bildt, but an edited version changing ‘deeply conservative orthodox ideas.’ to ‘deeply conservative Eastern Orthodox ideas.’
As a further fun exercise, imagine taking some of Mr. Michalopulos’s more colorful comments and imagine how
they would sound reinterpreted by the Russian agency REX.
What would Mr. Michalopulos have found if he searched Mr. Bildt’s twitter account for other uses of the word orthodox? If only there were such a way: https://twitter.com/search?q=orthodox%20from%3Acarlbildt&src=typd
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/320945337500045312
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/288197356783038464
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/155213256124936192
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/22693837302403072
So, apparently the man who supposedly thinks ‘Eastern Orthodoxy is a threat to Western Civilization’ tends to capitalize it properly when he is speaking of it on his twitter account and his comments tend to be wishing a merry Christmas or having expressed concern for the well-being of Coptic Orthodox Christians during Egyptian unrest.
Truly, a great monster of history.
George Michalopulos wrote:
Considering he never said that, I think you owe Mr. Bildt a public apology.
Not only has Rod Dreher published corrective to the misinformation in this article, but the website “Byzantine, Texas” displayed the good sense to remove a similar posted article, yesterday.
Oh, you know. The standard was set with the “breaking news” of Metropolitan Jonah’ release.
If you know even one-tenth of what you think you know, you would quit making snarky commentary about that. Actually…no you wouldn’t…it’s keeping you alive.
For what it’s worth, your Grace, Byzantine Tx broke the story of Metropolitan Jonah’s release. I got it from him.
Thank you to Nate Trost for delineating the original statement. And, I am wondering why Rod Dreyer and Byzantine , Texas had to so quickly parrot the incorrect statement without checking it out. When the Church is misused as a political tool, it is sad commentary on the priorities and proprieties of those who misused Her.
“what Zbibgniew Brzinski [sic] recently said: “Orthodoxy is the Enemy.”
A simple Google search yields absolutely no evidence that Zbigniew Brzezinski ever said that.
Matt, that’s interesting that you should say that. The reason I put that supposed quote from Brzenski in this article is because I first heard that not too long ago from an Orthodox bishop. He was speaking to several dozen people and giving some improptu after-dinner remarks.
I filed it away and didn’t think too much of it but for some reason, I felt compelled to put that in the piece I just published today. Well, lo and behold, about an hour later I got a call from a correspondent on my blog who told me that my piece had jogged his memory. He told me that he had heard that several years ago he had actually heard Zbig say that “the Russian Orthodox Church is the enemy now that the Soviet Union had fallen.” This was in the 90s and he thought that this was on episode of Meet the Press or some such Sunday morning news program. He also said he had spent an hour feverishly trying to find the episode or a document supporting said statement by Zbig but that he couldn’t find anything at all. It went down the memory hole it seems.
This was unprompted. I thought to myself “wow!” But then I filed it away and didn’t think much more of it as I was driving to work. Then during a break from my labors, I saw your riposte to me.
Now, let’s consider what I don’t have. I don’t have the actual quote and/or a newsclip. What do I have? The testimony of two men who don’t know each other, one a bishop, the other a layman who unpropmted by me (because I had never heard that quote in the first place) told me that Brzenski had said those words.
Do I have rock-solid proof? No, I don’t. But then again I have the testimony of two men who clearly remember that which I reported. Men who’ve never given me any reason to doubt their veracity nor whom I have ever heard espousing conspiracy theories. Interesting, isn’t it?
It gets even weirder. Today I sent a video to a friend of mine about a debate at Towson College. The two debators were completely incoherent and the only words that were intelligible were curse words. Yet they won. Here’s the weird part: This was about 1:00pm. When I went back to see it again at 8:00 it had been taken down.
Do I think that the MSM took down Zbig’s words? If he in fact uttered them, then you bettcha do I believe it!
Sheesh, George! We need a rule: all apocalyptic statements or profound alarmist accusations need to have some minimal level of objective support.
If we become completely unmoored here, then what’s the point? To me it has some importance that this place remains anchored to some degree……
George seems to be a Putin fan. I think Putin’s recent efforts to ban obscenity are something many here will sign onto, but the price is freedom. Russia should be working at reducing violent crime. I guess they like to start small.
Putin is opportunistic and not a very good Christian. If he were; he would call for Russian separatists to halt the violence.
Did not happen…
Anti-Christ.
Dan? shouldn’t judge others …………. are you a “good” Christian ??
Excuse me. Would never be a leader with 80% popularity and let it result in people killing the 20% to be on my side.
Put not your trust….
Putin can stop civil war now.
Even I’d be a Putin fan if he reversed his errors, but we know how leaders behave.
And George, if you really believe government supporters are anti-government….what can I say.
Are you absolutely sure that it is the Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine who are causing all the violence? Remember, we were assured that Saddam Hussein has WMD. George Tenet, the DCI told Pres Bush that it “was a slam-dunk.”
As for being a “Putin fan,” I can say that I admire any leader who wants what is cognizant of the needs, wants, and desires of his own people. One who is aware of his people and their history; their ties to the land. As an added bonus, I admire a leader who has taken the well-being of Christians in the Middle East to heart.
Compare this leader to our own who always comes down on the side of Muslims as opposed to Christians, who wanted the USAF to be the air wing of Al Quaida cannibals (literally), and who wishes to continue to depress the wages of American workers by inviting in millions of alien invaders. A man whose sense of American history is so minimal that he thought that there were “57 states” in our Union. A man who attended a “church” in Chicago where the pastor said “God damn America.”
Yeah, I admire Putin.
George,
Putin is not the protector of Christians (Orthodox) worldwide and certainly not the Mideast. This is propaganda and is a lie. Thousands of Muslims & Christians have been murdered in Syria by Assad and Putin has done nothing to protect the Orthodox Christians. Same in Egypt, etc. Putin wants Assad in power to continue his own interests in Syria and Iran. He could care less about the Orthodox Christians.
Sam, the only reason that the Christians of Syria haven’t been exterminated in toto in Syria is because Assad is still in power. The only reason he is still in power is because Putin has protected him. QED.
On the other hand what do we know? The Syrian rebels are Sunni jihadis; they are bloodthirsty and have even committed acts of cannibalism. Putin confronted PM David Cameron of Great Britain last year and asked him point-blank why he was so keen on supporting these savages. Cameron was shaken by Putin’s simple question. And the Parliament for the first time in centuries forbade a British PM from going to war.
Putin is not the only thing standing between Assad and the jihadists, George. Not all the Syrian rebels are jihadists, for that matter (there are secular forces in the northwest and southwest of the country, and Kurdish forces in the far northeast). Assad’s regime still stands because it has enough strength in the Syrian Establishment, which unlike that in Egypt has basically united, and deep roots in many sectors of Syrian society. He also has support from Iran, Iraq, and Hezbollah, which practically speaking is every bit if not more important than that from Putin. The situation isn’t as simple as you make it out to be.
“Compare this leader to our own who always comes down on the side of Muslims as opposed to Christians, who wanted the USAF to be the air wing of Al Quaida cannibals (literally), and who wishes to continue to depress the wages of American workers by inviting in millions of alien invaders. A man whose sense of American history is so minimal that he thought that there were “57 states” in our Union. A man who attended a “church” in Chicago where the pastor said “God damn America.”
“Al-Quaida” sounds like a Mexican dish; al-Qaeda is a terrorist group. He has not always sided with Muslims – what has he done lately as Christians have been expelling and slaughtering Muslims in the Central African Republic? The Mubarak regime was certainly not on the side of the Christians, so the Egyptian Revolution was a wash there. Deportations of illegals have risen dramatically under the Obama Administration. He is not ignorant of American history – the 57 states comment was a slip of the tongue; he was tired and meant to say he had visited 47 of the lower 48 states, and said fifty instead of forty. Every candidate makes gaffes, and he’s no different.
I’ll give you the line about Jeremiah Wright, though, but let’s have some basic accuracy in reporting.
The increase in deportation is a result of the changing of methodology in recording deportation. This administration counts anyone turned away at the border, which is totally bogus. If measured in the same way as the baseline, there is a marked decrease in deportation of illegals.
These people use statistics to lie. About illegal immigration, about unemployment, about ACA signups, and about countless things not yet in the public eye. But, Matt, if you want basic accuracy in reporting, you need to find some new sources, as the ones you are using are totally corrupt.
I agree with you George. Personally I believe Robert Gates did indeed see a cold-blooded killer when he looked into Putin’s eyes. But the threat posed to Russia, her people and her church by the West, the EU, and Vatican City is a far greater danger. If they ever succeeded in getting their hands on her they will tear her to pieces, plunder her resources and shut down the ROC. As one of maybe 12 or so “bitter” remnants through out the world of the old ROCOR I can assure you I have NO warm feelings for Putin or the hierarchs down at Moscow Centre. But I’m certain the threat from the West is far greater. It’s a bitter, bitter pill I’m having to swallow but I hope that ruthless, conniving thug stops the atheistic Western syphilis, this novus ordo seculorum, dead in it’s tracks at the Ukrainian border.
Some of the best writing on this is from Mark Hackard and his website http://souloftheeast.org/.
My maternal grandparents, Germans, always insisted that Hitler was ‘good for the German people..” THey also died believing that the moon landing was a hoax created by “Jews of Hollywood.” They believed that President Roosevelt was really a Jew: “Rosenfeld”, who always supported the Jews rather than the Christians For some reason, reading George’s defense of his crush on Putin, I was happily reminded of those grandparents. “Plus ca change….”
Your Grace, I for one do not believe that FDR had any Jewish ancestry whatsoever. Indeed, he and others of his class and breeding had rather dim views of Jews. He also had no sympathy for those Jews who tried to enlist his aid for the Zionist cause in Palestine. Neither did his successor for that matter until things got rather electorally bleak for him.
I’ve always believed in the moon landing.
Demonstrating once again that the apple does not fall far from the tree!
Russia has been plagued with obscenity for 70 years of Bolshevik rule. The Bolsheviks promoted the use of obscenities to compromise the Russian people. Extreme obscenity was a part of every Politburo meeting ans d was promoted by Lenin, Stalin and Khruschov. It was almost “de rigeur” for party people to speak like an inmate of the Peter prison. Putin has resolved to put a stop to the denigration of the Russian language. God bless him.
“The price is freedom”
The words Putin banned from the media are also banned in the US media. How horrifying.
Which books with swear words in the US require special warnings and covers on the packaging?
Dan Fall says:
Starting small with broken windows is how New York City was pulled around.
Oh, sure, stop harassing the tanks and men with guns sent to murder you by the foreign puppet Nazi Kiev junta that overthrew the elected government by force.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPD6B8TX2II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKsfhXMwRVM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftc3yRmR6FE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvIa3azfYQc
My reading of the Bible and saint’s prophecies inclines to me to thinking Russia wins WWIII, the USA is nuked, and everyone in world, the angels, and God celebrate us being put out of our misery. Russia then either makes the mistake of invading Israel (and gets judgement directly from God, because the Jews have an appointment with Antichrist and some with Christ), gets conquered by the Antichrist, or both. We’ll see, but everyday it seems to become a little more clear that we are the evil empire now (if nearly starting WWIII backing Syrian Al-Qaeda cannibals wiping out entire towns of Christians wasn’t enough).
Things are getting weirder and weirder. I wouldn’t be surprised to see demons showing up posing as “aliens” or anything else at this point.
Give that man a box of moldy Sergius Nilus essays! I especially liked the “My reading of the Bible and saint’s prophecies inclines me to thinking Russia wins WWIII, etc.” The Chancellor of the OCA graciously publishes his diary, while “Ladder of Divine Ascent” interviews himself when no one else will!
I have to say I agree with his last sentence after this insight into how he thinks, though I can’t imagine why demons would pose as aliens.. Is this a result of Scientology auditing of this Ladder by chance? I think he’s overdue for another midnight dip in the Russian river.
Nuff sed
Give that man a falling apart copy of Fr Schmemman!
“…inclines to me to thinking Russia wins WWIII, the USA is nuked, and everyone in world, the angels, and God celebrate us being put out of our misery.”
Mr./Ms. Ladder,
We are no longer a nation where a majority struggle to follow the moral law taught in the Bible. Our imaginations are continually evil. We have become so depraved that an unborn human being can be sacrificed on the altar of convenience and prosperity. We are up to our knees in the blood of our own children. Why God withholds his wrath, I cannot fathom. Chapter 18 of the Book of Revelation sounds a lot like a description of the United States to me. Half of the clergy may sneer at you for what you say, but I don’t.
But was there ever a reader of Revelations who did not think that it applied to his own times? And still the end has not yet come.
Every “prophesy-minded” person who seeks to construct the chronology of the events described in Revelations finds them in the events of his own days. Was there ever some deep student of the matter who put forth a theory that the events were going to fall 100 years thence, 250, 500, or whatever?
And would any early apocolyptic have thought 2,000 years would go by without fulfilment?
On the other hand, perhaps Revelations always describes the present day, in some sense.
If the Congress acts to remove a seated President, is it lawful if the vote passes?
How so was it not lawful for the Ukranian Parliament to do so?
They did not follow the constitutional procedure for impeachment.
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/03/russia-in-ukraine-a-reader-responds/
Daniel,
The Ukrainian legislature fell short of the two-thirds majority needed under its constitution to remove the president. Therefore Yanukovich is still the legitimate president of Ukraine. Moreover, without a legitimate government, and given all the chaos in the country, caused by both sides and outsiders as well, Russia has not violated international law through its actions, especially since the lawful president of Ukraine invited it to intervene.
It’s actually fairly cut and dried according to international law as the above link will demonstrate. Frankly, the West’s position is a crock of boo-boo.
I should add, the one exception to the “cut and dried” reference I made above is the annexation of Crimea by Russia. This is in violation of the constitution of Ukraine and perhaps is the only thing Russia has done that is really questionable under international law. However, the Ukrainian constitution is not a source of international law, only Ukrainian law.
This is where our adventures in Kosovo and Egypt become relevant . . .
Misha; you can’t seriously suggest on one hand the President is still the President and that Crimea was lawfully obtained…
If the President is still the President because the law was violated, then when did the Ukrainian government with him in charge decide to give Crimea to Russia.
See? Doesn’t work…
On the contrary, Dan, works nicely:
President Yanukovich invited the Russians in to help manage the situation in the Ukraine. To some extent, they did. However, the people of Crimea, predominantly Russians, had had enough of the Kiev government. They decided to have a referendum on secession and joining Russia which passed overwhelmingly.
Now, does it violate the Ukrainian constitution? Most certainly, at least by every account I have read.
So what? Ukraine’s constitution is not a source of international law.
Kosovo was a terrible precedent for the West to set and we were warned ahead of time. We will be seeing its results for decades to come. On the point of “home rule” or “secession”, there seems to be no international law anymore. Where there is no law there is only self interest.
I suppose a burned out light bulb shines in the sun.
Dan,
Perhaps, but what you assert is a non-sequitur. If Russia chooses to annex Crimea after a Crimean referendum overwhelmingly supported annexation (which Yanukovich did not support, btw), what does that have to do with the fact that the Ukrainian parliament could not muster the votes necessary to impeach Yanukovich?
Nothing.
It would be like a Mexican state voting to seceed without the government of Mexico and Obama sayin yes to it.
And my light bulb has a logic problem?
You can’t say you are right if you aren’t.
Crimea’s secession will never be viewed as lawful.
Dan,
I can say whatever I want to. Remember the old Sicilian proverb: Don’t demand what you can’t take.
a. Why should Obama have a voice in whether a Mexican state secedes?
b. I’m pretty sure the Russians couldn’t care less if the Crimea secession is viewed as illegitimate. They have successfully portrayed themselves to their own public as taking care of Russians abroad. They now control the Crimea, with its popular approval. They have explained to Kiev and its Western instigators in the only language that they understand that Russia will not tolerate such shenanigans on its doorstep. And Russia has prevented the Ukraine from joining NATO since the NATO charter prohibits accession by a country whose territorial integrity is in dispute (same with Georgia, btw).
Mission accomplished. If America wants to pound sand, so be it. China just signed a major oil deal with Russia and Europe seems to want to forget all about it and resume normal trade relations as soon as possible.
http://rt.com/business/161964-eu-third-round-sanctions/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27618681
Nonetheless, it’s not over. Recently a number of pro-Russian forces were killed at the airport in Donetsk. Now, pro-Russian forces have shot down a helicopter killing a high ranking Ukrainian general and 13 others.
All in the name of “containment”.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/opinion/ukraine-the-real-energy-crisis-starts-in-june-as-russia-plans-to-reduce-gas-supply-30314114.html
Also, things get quite interesting next month. Gas wars.
Meanwhile, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan just signed their Eurasian Union economic treaty:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/russia-belarus-kazakhstan-set-alliance-23908194
And miners demonstrated in support of the pro-Russian government in Donetsk.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/28/miners-russia-rally-donetsk
http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2014/05/21-ukraine-prize-russia-west-ukraine-gaddy-ickes?utm_campaign=Brookings+Brief&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=12890674&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8b3NCLXDSQFNbHjFNIBhDCTYyN-efg9UIubQCHLGp7kU4iDV
Also, take a look at the above link to an article from Brookings. I agree with their conclusion to a certain extent and it may explain Putin’s lack of fervor for invading Eastern Ukraine. When you run the numbers, the possibility of Ukraine entering the Western camp is not economically feasible. It could firmly enter the Russian camp (but Western Ukraine would be a perpetual problem and supporting the Ukrainian economy, which Russia to a considerable extent already does, would be an wasteful drain of Russian resources). Or it could be “Finlandized”; i.e., become (relatively) neutral.
However, the option they do not discuss is division of the country. Eastern Ukraine continues as a production center for Russia, thus saving its economy. Western Ukraine gets its “freedom” and “European-ness” and the West can pay for it. Of course, the West doesn’t want to pay for it because they don’t give a rat’s tail about Ukraine itself, other than as a strategic pawn, and they have their own problems. Thus we are left with this perpetual, impotent tantrum regarding Russia’s actions.
A sort of federalization may be the answer but that will require a strong resistance to Kiev’s present military initiative in the East in order to show the futility of continued centralization.
Mr. Fall,
Hmmm. A Mexican state voting to secede and subsequently being annexed by the U.S. Sounds like Texas to me. Texas didn’t need Andrew Jackson’s permission to secede in 1836, and Mexico unsuccessfully resisted the secession. So why is the secession of Texas from Mexico any more lawful than the secession of Crimea from Ukraine? Because the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo recognized U.S. sovereignty over Texas in 1848 (i.e. 12 years after the secession)? A similar agreement between Russia and Ukraine is possible and perhaps likely. So far, there seem to be two main moral differences between Russia’s annexation of Crimea and our annexation of Texas: 1) We killed many more Mexicans than the Russians have killed Ukrainians in this conflict. (Let us pray that remains the case.) 2) Our annexation of Texas in 1845 was undertaken explicitly to facilitate the westward expansion of slavery. No one has credibly imputed motives that odious to Russia. I neither support nor defend Russia’s actions in Ukraine, but it is impossible to take seriously all of this moral posturing by Americans, given the obvious parallels to the U.S.-Mexican War.
Me on May 6th, 2014:
May 13, 2014:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-says-baptism-for-all–even-martians-20140513-zraqo.html#ixzz31X6KkNKa
But, it isn’t just “another display of his lively sense of humour.” Rome has been signaling/preparing for this for years (one could argue that it began as far back as Vatican II).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gB7QhHcYIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Uu4zX8S2Kc
“Greetings, we come in peace. The servants of Allah with me are the same who created you at the command of Allah. All your flawed religions prior to Islam were based on this truth, but all led to the same God, Allah, and you can know I speak truly, for I am myself Jesus the un-crucified Messiah who proclaimed, to the Jews, the coming of Mohammed PBUH. Come baptize me, Pope, as did my cousin John, as a sign of repentance, for I am a mere sinful servant of Allah, and not God, for Allah is one, not three. Let all the world take this new second baptism that you baptize me into, only the damned among you who have ruined the earth will refuse. Look at my hands and feet, there are no scars, because Judas died in my place. The honoring of Judas must end, let all crosses be torn down, broken, and burned.”
Or whatever. It certainly won’t be Orthodoxy, so the details don’t matter.
“Things are getting weirder and weirder.”
Here on Monomahkos, for sure. My humble suggestion: stop reading.
Regardless of what one thinks of Russia and of the Orthodox Church in Russia, it does work to Christianize the culture, something it tries to do every day within the contexts of Russian culture. Take abortion, for example. Russia has the highest abortion rate in the world, and it was even higher during Soviet times. But since the Russian Orthodox Church has taken aggressive steps to educate the Russian public, to push the sanctity of life, and to make options for women other than abortion, the abortion rate in Russia has decreased dramatically (by an amazing rate).
That the Orthodox Church in Russia is not perfect should come as no surprise. But the fact that it is Christ’s church proselytizing to the Russian people within the context of Russian culture is the truth.
In America, we are taking baby steps toward an American church that will proselytize to the American public within the context of American culture. What we have now, to a large degree, is simply translated Greek Orthodoxy, translated Russian Orthodoxy, etc. (and often it is not even translated). We cannot expect the Church in Russia to operate the same way we would expect the Church in America to operate (this is completely notwithstanding the fact that there is probably absolutely no consensus of how the Church in America should operate).
Bottom line is that the Church in Russia is making remarkable progress in Christianizing Russian culture once again, and for that we should be thankful.
And if there is any truth to the fact that some Western Europeans think that Orthodox Christianity is the enemy and that Islam is their friend — man, are they in for a big surprise!
Christ is Risen!
can someone answer for me: What makes the Kiev government “Nazi.” I understand that is a buzz word , especially in Eastern Europe. What are the Ukrainians doing that makes them nazis?
Well, to begin with, using Nazi symbols is a hint. The president and prime minister are a Baptist preacher and a Scientologist. The origins of Maidan are in Galicia , a part of Ukraine proud of its Waffen SS Halichina heritage.
I know a few Baptist preachers, and a lot of Baptists. Not a Nazi among ’em!
Comparing Baptist preachers with Scientologists is taking even ignorance way too far…..
In other words, being Baptist does not relate to the issue……
Antonio, there are large elements of both Russian and Ukrainian society that are nostalgic for the days of Nazism (there are also such in the U.S. and Greece among other places) Recently neo Nazis paraded in their black uniforms with “schwarz-weiss-rot” semi-swastika banners in Saint Petersburg.
Baptists are proud of their individual freedom and almost never make doctinal or political statements as a unit or denomination. To deny there are Baptist preachers who are nazi-sympathetic is touching and optimiistic, but you can’t do it. I am personally acquainted with a schoolmate of the Ukrainian Prime Minister who grew up with him and attended school with him. He confirmed that he is very intelligent, honest, and a “Greek Catholic” and most definitely not a Scientologist. Whoever came up with that demonstrates bankruptcy in the area of intelligent argument.
And yes, the collaboration of many Uniates in Galicia seems shameful to us today, but why keep silence about General Vlasov and his “liberation” army of Russian emigres fighting for Hitler? Some who loudly bewail and lament “Banderists’ and “Ukrainian SS,’ think nothing of praying for Vlasovtsi at annual panikhidas in Russian Churches!
greggo,
It boils down mostly to two groups: “Svoboda” [originally styled the “Social-National Party of Ukraine, in honor of the National Socialists] and “Pravy Sektor”. Svoboda is a sort of a wannabe fascist party. Now they hold 4 important posts in the Kiev government. Pravy Sektor are genuine neo-Nazis. Their forces have been folded into the Ukrainian National Guard. Both were spearheading the Maiden coup d’etat after a deal had been made by Yanukovich and the more civilized Maiden leadership. Essentially, they overthrew the government and expected something in return. It was under their watchful eyes and weapons that the parliament passed the anti-Russian language law. Moreover, they have sent forces into the East.
There is a long history behind this. Google “Stepan Bandera”. He was a Nazi collaborator, mass murderer, etc. A hero to Svoboda and Pravy Sektor, and many others in the West. Anti-Polish, anti-Russian, anti-Semitic; real nice people.
In May 1941 at a meeting in Krakow the leadership of Bandera’s OUN faction adopted the program “Struggle and action for OUN during the war” (Ukrainian: “Боротьба й діяльність ОУН під час війни») which outlined the plans for activities at the onset of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and the western territories of the Ukrainian SSR.[37] Section G of that document –”Directives for first days of the organization of the living state” (Ukrainian: “Вказівки на перші дні організації державного життя») outline activity of the Bandera followers during summer 1941 [38] In the subsection of “Minority Policy” the OUN-B ordered the removal of hostile Poles, Jews, and Russians via deportation and the destruction of their respective intelligentsias, stating further that the “so-called Polish peasants must be assimilated” and to “destroy their leaders.”
“In late 1942, Bandera’s organization, the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, was involved in a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Volhynia, and in early 1944, these campaigns began to include Eastern Galicia. It is estimated that nearly 70,000 Poles, mostly women and children along with unarmed men, were killed during the spring and summer campaign of 1943 in Volhynia[39] by the OUN-Bandera which bears primary responsibility for the massacres.” – Wikipedia, Stepan Bandera
Look at the bottom of the Wikipedia article. He has many, many monuments and streets named after him in the western part of Ukraine.
Awaiting Brave Clergy Participation
CALL FOR PAPERS Religious and Sexual Nationalism in Eastern
Europe: Theoretical and Empirical Perspectives Forthcoming 2015
Editors: Srdjan Sremac (VU University Amsterdam), R. Ruard
Ganzevoort (VU University Amsterdam)
The Amsterdam Centre for the Study of Lived Religion invites
proposals for articles for the volume Religious and Sexual
Nationalism in Eastern Europe: Theoretical and Empirical
Perspectives ( http://www.livedreligion.org/ ).
One of the prominent and fiercely contested issues in Eastern European societies regards the position of religion and homosexuality. The volume will focus on the strategic and ideological assumptions, interests, and effects of present-day constructions of (homo)sexuality and religion in public arenas of Eastern Europe. In recent decades the public perception of both religion and sexual diversity has changed fundamentally in Eastern Europe. Whereas several Western societies consider the acceptance of sexual diversity the litmus test of tolerance and essential to human rights, other societies see homosexuality as a threat to their national and cultural identity. In many of Eastern
European societies (e.g. the Western Balkans), religion plays a dominant role in strengthening particular cultural identities as appears for example in the problems around gay pride parades. Sexual and religious nationalisms emerge in collective identity markers in political debates and popular culture. This volume will look at the cultural discourses at work and explore the cultural differences in several contexts of Eastern Europe and the cultural and political role of religion in conflicts about sexual diversity. An integrative approach that aims to chart and evaluate
the dynamics of religion, nationalism, and homosexuality in different multi-layered political and religious contexts is therefore required. The aim of this volume is to develop a theoretical and empirical framework that will allow a critical and systematic exploration of theoppositional pairing of religion and homosexuality as it is related to the public arena of different national and religious contexts of Eastern Europe. We would like also to invite scholars from other Western European countries to contribute to the volume.
Areas of interest for this volume include, but are not limited to, thefollowing topics: – Religious and sexual nationalism: theoreticalperspectives – Methodological issues – Case studies from different countries – Media discourse analysis – Religion and the rights of sexual minorities in post-communist Eastern Europe – Religion,
violence and homosexuality on social media – Effects of public discourse on LGBT communities – Contextual theological developments regarding sexual diversity – The relationship between ethno-nationalism and religion in Eastern Europe – Analysis of religious and sexual nationalism in popular culture.
Please send all proposals (300 words) to
sexualnationalism@livedreligion.org.
Deadlines: Submission of proposals: May 15, 2014
Notification of acceptance: June 15, 2014
Completed manuscripts (7,000 words): October 15, 2014
Srdjan Sremac
Cornelis de Wittlaan 16 BG
2582 CL Den Haag, The Netherlands
Tel: +31(0)65 433 23 18
E-mail: sexualnationalism@livedreligion.org.
http://www.srdjansremac.com/ http://www.cirelstud.org/
I doubt papers on the “Orthodox Point of View” are among those being solicited! Perhaps one of the “Progressive” clergy can come up with a tome on why the “Orthodox Point of View” is not REALLY the Orthodox point of view, supported by a few disjointed, random and inapplicable quotes from the Fathers on “love,” then some quotes from some hot diggity dog academic “theologians … ” hey! Honorary degree from a university in the Netherlands! Maybe get more invitations to speak to audiences who value that kind of “prestige!” Progress! Forward! Then, one day, my autobio! Can’t wait to tell all about my fight for justice! My Fight! What a title! Maybe even a German edition!
Good Lord! You even have to be anonymous in addressing this? And you ask if “anyone”brave enough? Who are you, a Son of Job?
Here is all the answer they need:
“Whereas several Western societies consider the acceptance of sexual diversity the litmus test of tolerance and essential to human rights, other societies see homosexuality as a threat to their national and cultural identity.” Really? ” “And he said to him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” (Lk. 16:31) Now how much bravery did that take?
Let’s not forget what your “We are the Legacy!” friends did to Met. Jonah.
You still have not criticized the STINKBOMB letter, a slanderous screed calculated to destroy the man’s reputation.
Anonymity is necessary to limit the destructive reach of the Legacy types.
Easy for you to say, Doc, when you are protected by Benjamin and the Chancellor. Try being on the side of truth and see where that gets you with them. Anonymity becomes necessary when the establishment will destroy you. But you don’t get that Stankovitch, along with a lot of other things. I look forward to your well worded rejoinder that reeks of meaningless religious platitudes and Scripture quotations. Here’s one for you and all your friends,”For, as it is written, ‘The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.'”
Matthew,
Kindly direct me to your published warnings and admonitions to the bishops that unless we began a serious, directed, and concerted effort to address the issue of same-sex marriage, we would find ourselves exactly where we find ourselves today: in the minority of both social and religious opinion in this country. Mine are numerous and easily found. J’accuse.
And my response to you, Matthew, is sleep now in the fire. You had four full years as the appeal of the constitutionality of CA Proposition 8 worked its way through the California Appeals & Supreme Court, the Federal Appeals Courts, all the way to the SCOTUS; and the sponsors were open and transparent as to their goal and process as they patiently gathered support and amicus briefs at their leisure. This issue was lost because of indifference and our fundamental lack of a voice of moral authority. In the week that oral argument was heard by the SCOTUS, where were the American Orthodox? In Rome giving trinkets to the new pope and seeking photo ops. When did the Orthodox respond to the decision? Weeks and months later. Sleep now in the fire. As to my “scripture as platitude” response above, the moron who posed the question, “who is brave enough,” does not grasp the challenge: they scoff at the “Orthodox way.” They are not interested in hearing “as it was in the beginning,” Orthodox anthropology and the true nature of man; they would wish to engage us in empty, distracting discussions of “human rights” and “evolving orders of society.” “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.” I am sorry you find this “meaningless” and inappropriate.
As to being “protected,” do you somehow image Fr. Jillions or Archbishop Benjamin will “rescue” me should I refuse to council someone preparing for an abortion or someone seeking the mandatory course of therapy necessary for gender reassignment because I am ethically opposed? There are cases in CA where a clinician’s license have been challenged and suspended even when they offered to make a referral to a competent colleague. My point is that I have direct consequences for acting according to my conscience and faith. You would lecture me about “the establishment will destroy you?” You are too much of a coward to even identify yourself. Anonymity is the way of cowards and the antithesis of integrity. And it is cowards who do nothing but mumble, whine, and bitch that are responsible for the minority situation we find ourselves in now. Now I ask you, was that a satisfying rejoinder?
It was well worded, meaningless, needlessly long, and missed the point of what I said almost entirely. Yes, it was quite satisfying. By the way, my name *is* Matthew, so I’m not being entirely anonymous. True there are a lot of Matthews and several of us with the same name post here but..so what? If you think all of us are cowards who are anonymous or are at least somewhat anonymous, why bother responding? I look forward to your long response that addresses nothing.
Matthew,
You make an excellent point. I should not have responded as you waste my time. À bientôt.
“Matthew,” you said, “Easy for you to say, Doc, when you are protected by Benjamin and the Chancellor. Try being on the side of truth and see where that gets you with them.”
I think you owe the man an apology. You as much as claimed he is not on the side of truth! And I can’t imagine why you think that M. Stankovich is protected by Archbishop Benjamin or Father J. Jillions. Protected from WHAT?
I respond not because I consider you worthy of response, but to object to your careless and cowardly attacks launched like drones from unaccountable security. It’s totally what we used to call ‘sissy’ behavior or effeminacy. M. Stankovich addressed YOU. You are right to say he thereby “addresses nothing” since he addressed YOU.
George:
Kriste Aghsdga! Christ Is Risen!
Why do you insist on spinning fantastical arguments based on premises, which are already proven to be false?
Don’t you realize that by doing so, you are shredding the very last traces of credibility you might still possess?
You claim that the EU is out to destroy the Russian nation and the Russian Orthodox Church. Can you point to one concrete fact to support that claim? No.
On the other hand, I can show you and your readers the desecrated, looted and burned Ghvrtaeba Cathedral, which was attacked by the military invasion forces which were under the direct command of Vladimir Putin. Not only that, these abominations were publicly “blessed” by bishops of the Moscow Patriarchate,
In August 2008, the Russian bishops, Panteleimon of Kabardino-Adyghe and Feofan of Saratov (since transferred to Machkhala) accompanied the invasion forces and publicly “blessed” the weapons used to attack civilian populations. These “blessings” were televised first in Russia and then in Georgia. You may watch the video with your own eyes as it is included in the “Orthodox Occupation” video on You Tube. These infernal “blessings” are also included in Andrei Nekrasov’s documentary “Uroki Russkogo” (Russian Lessons), which debunks the Russian government’s propaganda campaign of justification for its invasion of Georgia. Mr. Nekrasov’s documentary is also available on You Tube in 12 segments, some with English sub-titles for those who do not understand the Russian language.
On August 8, 2008, the missiles “blessed” by Bishop Feofan were used attack the ancient Ghvrtaeba Cathedral and the Shrine of the Protomartyr Razhden in Nikozi. On August 9th, the Russian military and their Ossetian allies looted, desecrated and burned this ancient House of God. These weapons were used in bombing raids and missile attacks on civilian populations throughout Georgia, including areas well outside the so-called “zone of conflict”.
The 2008 documentary “Orthodox Occupation” has been re-released and posted on You Tube at the following url:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FRMy143Nm0
Portions of this documentary plus additional footage are now available with English voice over, titled “Orthodox Occupancy Part 1 and Part 2” at the following urls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dWSx4scmP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmw7jY3gzj4&feature=related
A television documentary on the destruction of Ghvertaeba and the work of reconstruction carried out by Metropolitan Isaiah may be viewed at:
http://pik.tv/en/war/film/1755
George the EU doesn’t HAVE to destroy Russia or the Moscow Patriarchate. Putin and Patriarch Kirill are already destroying Russia and the Russian Church apace.
Several years ago, Meupe Antony shocked us with the following words:
“Kirill is a highly educated theologian and an experienced churchman; but Kirill is evil (borotisulia- the Georgian expression is much stronger than the English word – boroti is the “Evil One “ in the Lord’s Prayer suli is soul). Kirill will destroy the Russian Church.”
Who’s credibility is at stake here Francis? When I attended St James on Palm Sunday, you had the tactlessness to introduce me to a fine Georgian gentlemen who I believe is your Sr Warden. You told me to “ask him which country (Georgia or Russia) invaded the other.” (Almost a verbatim quote.)
This was extremely disingenous of you as I have NEVER stated that Russia did or didn’t invade Georgia. You made the rhetorical fallacy of known as a category mistake. I.e. we talk about the virtuosity of Wagner’s Ring cycle as opposed to Beethoven’s Eroica and then you bring up the fact that Beethoven threw eggs at his housekeeper.
All I have ever stated is that Georgia’s president, the Neocon toady Shaakashvili, provoked Russia. These are facts. As to whether it was moral for Putin to cleave off Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia that’s a different matter. If you think it was right for NATO to cleave off Kosovo from Serbia then logically you cannot proscribe the same for Russia.
That’s all water under the bridge now. I belong to a jurisdiction in which might makes right so I have no countervailing argument to offer or to mollify your grievances. I am somewhat puzzled by your characterization of His Holiness being “evil” while being a “good theologian” at the same time. Would you be willing to give us an example of a hierarch who can be both evil and good at the same time or how one would attempt this?
Dear-to-Christ Francis,
while you’re busy cataloging the various dire statistics coming out of Russia, would you care to comment on certain unpleasantries that have befallen our land?
For one, you can start here: http://thetruthwins.com/archives/100-facts-about-the-moral-collapse-of-america-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe
Reading recently about the situation in Sweden, whether Foreign Minister Bildt said what some say he said, or did not (and, of course, the “message on the internet” that he was “innocent” of the “charges” was 100% pure, unadulterated truth!), if Sweden is any indication of the direction of the EU, Mr Bildt does not need to “say” it … It is quite obvious, as it is here in the US. I suppose it depends on which “segment” of Orthodoxy one might be speaking about. Most decidedly, Orthodoxia Ecumania is no “threat” to Western Civilization! Neither is “Orthodoxia Americana!” As far as both are concerned, they are not among the dullards who think “individual freedom” is not the world’s “highest good.” They still believe the “great concern” of the US and the EU is “individual freedom.” Sure is! Just like in Sweden, where those who “criticize” the “protected minorities” are jailed; just like the US, where “individual freedom” no longer applies to anyone who has religious convictions and a business. All that ethnic, old world stuff, you know! Oh yes! And all that “Antichrist” business-just a fairy tale to scare children! So, let’s forget nasty ole Russia! They’re … Mean to gays! Civil rights violators! Oh my! How horrible! Why can’t they be “progressive” like us! Wow! So wonderful, living in the very, very, very most Progressive, Christian, and Free nation on earth! We’re such an example to all!
Christians in Syria are massacred by weapons given to the murderers by the US … They murderers are paid by the US … Saudi Arabia, our good friend and ally (“friend ” is spelled O-I-L) routinely BEHEADS gays “caught in the act.” In cases @
of rape, has executed the victim as guilty of “adultery!” No “civil rights violator” status for the Saudis. Ah, yes, “Truth, Justice, and the American Way!” And, the Myslins (except those we’re paying to further our “interests”) hate us because we’re free! Progressives of the World Unite! You have only your spiritual chains to lose!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-dr-john-chryssavgis/orthodoxy-putin-and-the-w_b_5302368.html?utm_hp_ref=religion&ir=Religion
Mr. Bildt’s original (and recent) twit was this:
“Perhaps @McFaul underestimating force of Putin’s new anti-Western and anti-decadent line. Building on deeply conservative orthodox ideas.”
Mr. Brezinski said in the 1990’s:
“We destroyed the USSR, we will also destroy Russia. Russia is a dispensable state, anyway. The orthodoxy is the main enemy of America. Russia is a defeated country. It will be divided and put under guardianship.”
Though I don’t currently possess a hard position towards the apparently identical usage (ie – neutral context) re: the language used by both men, Is their usage of “orthodox” really an overt reference to the Russian Orthodox Church? It’s not necessarily so.
Though from another p.o.v. both men appear to be using language in a deliberately duplicitous manner. There is a Russian Orthodox Christian Orthodoxy. There is also a Russian (or Soviet) political orthodoxy based on a hard-line interpretation of the Marxist dialectic.
I think there is enough reason to believe that both men may have hard both aspects of the meaning in mind when they used “orthodox” in their statements. It sends a message to everyone in the USSR/Russia.
That’s all.
I thank that you will find that most historians strongly criticize Carter and Brezinski for their ineffective and counter productive foreign policy.
First of all, Archpriest John, we have no idea at all how many historians there are, and, until we know that, we can’t say ‘anything about “most” historians, particularly in reference to events contemporaneous with our lives.
I know that there are some pundits, media, people, college professors and perhaps a couple authors of books commenting on current affairs, who can be found to criticize the foreign policies of each and every American president. There is no standard, either, for defining what ‘productive’ means relative to any foreign policy. Productive of WHAT? Where do the Camp David Accords fall on the “productive/non-productive scale?
I recommend stating one’s own estimation of this or that public figure, e.g., a president, with confidence without undercutting that estimation by claiming support of any vague “authority.’ Might as well say, ‘And all the polls (or pols) agree with me!’