No longer content with their mission of allowing people to share and express themselves to their family and friends, Facebook has created a new role for itself. They are now agents of the Center for Disease Control (CDC), declaring war on what they call “vaccine hoaxes.” Why? Because they think we’re too stupid to navigate the world of reasons why a parent may not want to vaccinate their child. Someone’s got to do our thinking for us and Facebook has volunteered to get the job done in a “spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down” kind of way. In other words, they’re going to do it behind the scenes, without our knowledge, through their algorithms. “Vaccine hoaxes” will no longer appear when searched for on their site.
What exactly is a “vaccine hoax,” anyway? FB doesn’t bother to explain other than saying it’s been “publically verified.” Where and by whom is a bit of a mystery, as there is nothing about “hoaxes” on either the CDC or WHO websites. What we DO know is that since 1988, over 20,428 petitions have been filed with the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. 17,718 of these petitions were adjudicated, with 6,430 determined to be compensable. These “vaccine hoaxes,” have resulted in payouts of $4.0 billion.
I went on a mission to unravel the CDC’s recommendations with respect to 4 of the 49 vaccines a child must receive by age 6 to go to school: The vaccine(s) that are thought to protect you against polio. Polio is one of those diseases that strikes fear in the hearts of those who grew up in the 50s. Many of us remember a classmate or two who suffered from the crippling disease, and who can forget the image of the iron lung? I’m not sure I have ever actually MET a person who had to live in one of those dreadful machines but we’ve all seen pictures. It’s scary stuff and no one wants to see a scourge like polio take over again. End of story.
But given that perception differs from reality and fear is a powerful motivator, just how likely is it that polio will ever rear it’s ugly head in this country again?
The following was published by the World Health Organization this week. It shows the total number of polio cases worldwide, by country. The first thing that jumped out at me is polio is not in the United States. It hasn’t originated here since 1979. The only way polio can get here is if a traveler brings it in. The last time this happened was in 1993. There is no evidence this incident resulted in anybody getting sick in the United States, although the CDC still cites this case as a cautionary tale. Yes, it can travel here, but how likely is it?
There are exactly 33 contracted (person to person) cases of polio in existence today. These cases are no longer contagious, as you can only get polio 7-10 days before an individual becomes symptomatic or a few weeks after if exposed to an infected person’s feces. Antiquated sanitation systems were believed to be the culprit in the 50s. Because the last new case of polio surfaced in 2017, NO ONE IN THE WORLD should be contagious, right? It’s worth mentioning that if you DO get polio, there is better than a 95% chance you will NOT become symptomatic. The odds are overwhelmingly in your favor you will suffer no paralysis or any other major ill effect from polio. That was news to me as we were all led to believe that polio and paralysis were one and the same.
So why does the CDC still recommend we vaccinate our children?
That’s an interesting question. If you ask the CDC, they’ll talk to you about something called “herd immunity.” The very name of it suggests we’re like cattle but putting that aside, why do they say your child needs this particular vaccine? They’ll tell you it’s because polio hasn’t been eradicated. They’ll insist that your child, one of 74 million in this county, COULD be exposed to a traveler who COULD have gotten polio in a . . . well, a vacuum, I guess, since none of the 33 known cases in the world are contagious. If true, your child probably has a better chance of getting struck by lightning 10 to 20 times than contracting polio here in the United States. But is this true?
Or is it something else entirely? Perhaps what they’re really worried about is a pesky little vaccine known as OPV. It is used in third-world countries because it is administered orally, less expensive and easier to administer. Could a vaccine spawn a global epidemic if the greater population isn’t sufficiently vaccinated?
For whatever reason Congress is talking about vaccination now, even mandatory adult vaccination. I’m guessing this is because they know: (1) a good percentage of our population received fewer doses of OPV back in the day, which is known NOT to be sufficiently effective against polio, (2) they have no idea how long boosters last, AND (3) someone who has been fully vaccinated in a third-world country could bring it into the United States.
In other words: They’re worried about an epidemic from the vaccine.
The last thing the pharmaceutical companies would want is for you to lose confidence in vaccination. They make BIG MONEY on vaccines. So much so that even tobacco companies hope to lift their sagging revenues by getting into the game. Just ask Dr. Brenda Fitzgerald, the former Director of the CDC, who had to resign over her tobacco investments.
As an aside, I wonder how much Facebook is being paid?
https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/data/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arleneweintraub/2018/03/01/this-company-is-testing-a-flu-vaccine-made-in-tobacco-and-philip-morris-is-on-board/#7909bbd049ee
http://polioeradication.org/polio-today/polio-now/this-week/)
https://www.distilnfo.com/provider/2019/03/11/facebook-instagram-to-limit-spread-of-vaccine-misinformation/?fbclid=IwAR0_9-Io14r6MWG8sz_39S_S-kCrRVvCVUmjpReavb3y04EvrSdJ1CFgytU
Remember – as horrified as everybody acts about the sale of aborted baby parts, vaccine creation is one of the excuses given as to why it is necessary. As the years pass, more vaccines seem to be produced using material which is derived from murdered babies.
I am generally not anti-vaccine. But without being a conspiracy theorist, I think that as a parent, one needs to be really careful about what you do with one’s kids, and the more there’s this WAILING that if you don’t do exactly what is demanded right away, the more reason there is to really take a look and be careful as to what is actually going on.
On a personal note, as an adult, I learned that the mother of a close relative believed, until the end, that her son’s lifelong, serious health issues (which consequently resulted in early death) were caused by a bad vaccine. Gives me pause, because the mother was a very well-educated, scientific person (college degree in the 1940s and all), who was NOT given to all sorts of crazy conspiracy theories. However, being from a rural area with a rural background, I have a high suspicion that she and her husband were dismissed out-of-hand by “the experts” merely because of their background.
I myself am Not anti-vac in theory, however I do believe that as a nation we are overdoing it.
As a Pharmacist, I can tell you that we are extremely over-medicated as well. I’m particularly distressed by the promiscuous prescribing of amphetamines to the young and psychotropic drugs to everybody else.
Read Gregory’s eulogy at Basil’s funeral, where he condemned the anti-science as stupid and lazy. Basil was a doctor and invented the hospital (that’s right, not Florence Nightingale). I agree doctors should prescribe meds more sparingly and temporarily, eschewing “maintenance”. Each gene codes for many different things in many parts of the body and eventually side effect catch up with you. (in fact the same genes code for totally different things in species like yeast and C elegans but can still be studied because of shorter lifespan). But using a medicine to deal with immediate onset of disease is still very valid. Consider that some super scientists in good health take ritalin to enhance their professional performance. Many traditionalists totally deny psychiatry because they are uncomfortable facing their own psychiatric diseases.
Fair enough. It can never hurt however to have it near to statements like this how science and psychiatry do have their limits.
Ever more, science has descened into scientism (that which thinks it has all the answers; that which thinks it can philosophise; that which has forgotten what true science is: the study only of what can be observed and repeated), and a huge current in psychiatry is rational or utilitarian, which is ultimately incompatible with faith.
the more we buy in to the politicization of issues that are basically a matter of verifiable fact, the more we discredit ourselves when it comes to arguing our case with respect to those issues relating to our core values.
time to take off the tin hats.
that’s when i start to wonder if some “conservatives” are really just carefully placed plants who have enough of a voice to make the world think we’re all crazy.
there’s a right way to fight our fight and saying “x” just because the left says “y” isn’t it.
I as a health professional agree with you. I worked and trained in Greece and uk. I do believe you over medicate in USA and may over vaccinate too, not letting natural imunity take hold. And in Romania I saw gypsy kids surrounded by flies and bare footed, in farm waste and yet fine. While volunteers from USA were down with something gastrically nasty in days.
However there are things that are dangerous and danger spreading such as illnesss that threaten babies and mass outbreaks such as in influenza and pneumococcal pneumonia in elderly, as some examples, that are necessary.
What ever the merits of the individual case, my concern is why is this being mixed with Politics.? What have being fascist or communist or what have you, got to do with scientific fact?
To add to that, Nikos, vaccines are dependent upon the body’s immune system to work. It makes me extremely uncomfortable when private citizens like Bill and Melina Gates embark on global campaigns to cure the ills of the world when they have no idea of the ramifications. They can’t know the impact of using a live virus like OPV, that once worked so beautifully in the United States, in a third world country. They assume it is responsible for saving vast numbers of people from polio but they’re only now seeing the unintended consequences in countries who have populations with immune systems severely compromised by inadequate supplies of clean water, food, and basic healthcare. – The inverse may also be true. Because we are circumventing our own natural ability to fight off disease by giving our kids so many vaccines in this country, who is to say we’re not negatively impacting the health of our overall immune systems? A strong immune system is dependent upon fighting off disease. My generation, who had measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., aren’t the ones having a disproportionate number of cases of asthma, for example, and they have just now linked the vaccine for chicken pox to a greater incidence of shingles, as opposed to actually having had chicken pox. The testosterone of my generation never dropped as it has now. We’re not seeing abnormal numbers of the cells that indicate immune system defects or sub-normal levels of infection-fighting proteins (immunoglobulin) in the blood in my generation. In other words, there are many things that younger people are having to deal with that previous generations did not. Could it be because we undermine our own natural immunity through excessive vaccination? – We don’t know enough about the long term consequences of taking a one-size-fits-all approach and yet we are apparently just fine with private citizens doing just that with the help of the institutions (Big Pharma) who stand the most to gain from it.
GALE true.. But u see see yr voice of scientifically informed questioning which i add for me too, gets drained out by the stupidly ignorant on one side and the arrogant rather mono tone stupid ‘tech ‘ gods’on other.
The basic aim of vaccination surely is to help the body aquire an imune response to a particular threat. And these threat should be of life threatening level to the groups vacinated.
To point out the Orthodox church blessed science and medicine and right up to modern times has Dr bishops such as Surgeon Luke,+1961 and Bishop Anthony Bloom in Uk. +2003
So true, Nikos.
Do your own homework. STOP believing what you are being told. Vaccine mandates are nothing short of Totalitarian tactics. They love keeping us in fear. I have 2 vax damaged grown children. My grandchildren are not vaxxed and at 4 and 2 years old, are extremely healthy- esp compared to the other children at daycare and nursery. Wake up America! Why did Congress pass legislation in 1986 to protect doctors and Big Pharma from being sued. READ vaccine inserts – the Adverse side effects – it will explain all of the child maladies we have today – everything from Autism Spectrum to allergies, Childhood Diabetes (Type 1) asthma, ADHD – they may not call it that, but the symptoms are clearly listed….why are doctors being well compensated for fully vaxing their patients? Wake up.
Quite apart from any dead end attempt to “challenge” you as to the substance of your comment, let me simply say that you obviously have no idea as to how the list of “Adverse Effects” appears on the manufacturer’s package insert. The manufacturers themselves provide this data to the FDA, and the FDA relies on their truthfulness.
I’m a former researcher and occasional manager of all required applications, forms, credential verification of researchers, IRB reports, patient data, research data, on and on required by the FDA for conducting drug trials with human subjects on behalf of a university with limited funding from the manufacturers. The FDA relied upon us to provide them with any and all adverse effects experienced by trial subjects. How could they possibly know if I purposely omitted negative outcome data (and trust that many have been caught later, when the symptom begins to arise during the “Trial Post-Marketing Phase”), or exaggerated positive outcome data? They cannot. Secondly, and equally absurdly, should you choose to follow the directives, you are obligated to report every subject Adverse Event without exception; and “without exception” includes “events” you know are not related to the clinical trial (e.g. you see a patient known to be lactose intolerant eating ice cream, who reports the “adverse event” of diarrhea). The point? The Adverse Side Effects list is full of “adverse events” that are unrelated to the medication trial.
Final thoughts: Why did Congress pass legislation in 1986 to protect doctors and Big Pharma from being sued? An FDA auditor left a note asking why a patient’s broken arm was not a reported “adverse event?” Um, because he exited the hospital van that delivered him dead-assed-drunk and fell. I would have felt quite badly if an “Adverse side effect” appeared suggesting a “danger for falls,” and affording him the right to sue me.
So, you gonna believe me when I tell you there is not a single paper on this earth that “explains it all,” or you gonna believe your lyin’ eyes that read that list? Wake up indeed.
RE: “Your un-vaxxed grandchildren are part of erasing herd immunity, which is extremely dangerous for autoimmune compromises kids & young adults like my daughter.”
Whether the risks of vaccination are real or perceived, is it reasonable (I’m not making a statement here: I’m asking a question) for one mother to expect another mother to accommodate the needs of her child when the other mother believes it will put her child at risk? This is the dilemma.
You might find this study on waning immunity of interest. I believe this is what you’re referring to with respect to the third booster. http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/433/eaao5945
I’m sorry to hear about your daughter, as I was about Tessa’s children. May the Lord be merciful to our children.
I have two vaccine injured children one on the spectrum and one that had serious language delays and regression of speech. I was very pro-vaccine before. I did everything I was told to do following the CDC, I had complete trust. I had no idea how unsafe these shots truly are. My last two children are vaccine free and are completely developmentally normal and nothing like my first two. We are being lied too and it’s coming to light now thank GOD. The inserts we are not given tell the true risks. None of the adverse reactions my children had were even on the little printout you get at the Dr. office. IF we knew what to report to VAERS they would be FLOODED with reports. I didn’t even know what VAERS was till 5 years ago and it’s too late to report. I had to homeschool my first two children because of these injuries, it’s life changing. Spectrum disorders are a cover up and should be labeled vaccine induced autism. Don’t get me started on the high SIDS rates in this country, also a side effect listed in the insert. Watch the deposition on YouTube by Dr. Stanley Plotkin a vaccinologist and the leading authority on vaccines. Out of his mouth he tells you everything you want to know. 9 hours worth of it all, as far the safety, experiments, proper testing and aborted babies used in the development of this “medicine”. Our government is bought and paid for right now, the Pharmaceutical companies lobby and win. We need to repeal the 1986 Act so they can be sued for harm. Our children suffer and die and they line their pockets with money. How can we assume we can make medicine on the bodies of murdered babies and not suffer from the result of that alone?
Also Most cases of polio now are caused by the oral vaccine go figure.
Watch this 3-minute video circulated by Bill and Melina Gates about circulated vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV).
You will learn that:
(1) a live virus is used in the oral polio vaccine (OPV) that is distributed in other parts of the world,
(2) children pass the poliovirus they receive from the vaccine to one another which is believed to create immunity,
(3) the virus can mutate creating a whole new concern, AND
(4) the virus from the vaccine can and does produce paralysis.
If the population is healthy, the virus passed from child to child helps to promote immunity; however, if the population is not healthy, the virus spreads just like the spread of “wild” polio.
It’s alarming to me that they are still using live viruses in the oral vaccine. Today, there are at least 3Xs more cases of polio from the vaccine itself than from the “wild” polio it is meant to prevent.
What’s even more alarming is that for every known case of poliovirus, there are over 95+ unknown cases where there are no symptoms. These people ALSO excrete the virus, infecting those with weakened immune systems. They can come into the United States infecting those who have not been inoculated.
The “wild” polio we’ve known has been eradicated. It’s now polio from the OPV that poses the very health risk we attempted to address by creating the vaccine in the first place.
http://polioeradication.org/news-post/vaccine-derived-polioviruses/
I happened to pass by, only to see google scholarship that is not “fair & balanced,” to borrow a phrase, but is, to paraphrase Johann Sebastian above, politicized rather than scientific fact; facts that are readily available from any introductory immunology textbook, a barrel of longitudinal studies in the National Library of Medicine, and data provided by the World Health Organization. Most importantly, the opinions expressed here are completely naive and/or ignorant of the astonishing emergent data regarding the role of epigenetics – environmental and other factors which result in transmittable genetic changes that otherwise do not change the underlying genome. This speaks directly to the issue of the emergence of a circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV)that can cause paralysis. However, the facts presented here are convoluted to the point of absurdity.
Very specifically, this “live” virus is an attenuated virus, meaning it has been weakened to the point that it is now only similar to the actual live virus, meaning no one is being injected with live wild polioviruses. This bears repeating: no one is being injected with a live viruses. Apparently no one is aware that the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella), rotavirus, chicken pox, smallpox, and yellow fever vaccines are all attenuated live viruses. The vaccines for Hepatitis A, flu shots, polio shots in the US, and rabies are inactivated viruses. Hib (Haemophilus influenzae, type b), Hepatitis B, HPV, Whooping Cough (part of the DTaP vaccine), Pneumococcal disease, Meningococcal disease, and Shingles are specifically derived from the germ of the virus & specifically target those areas to provoke a strong immune response. As to how targeted vaccines, utilized to provoke a specific immune response – an active antibody response to fight disease – could be considered a “circumvention” of our immune system, or an “undermining” of “our own natural immunity” is ridiculous.
The attenuated polio virus (OPV) is purposely used in Africa (Bill & Melinda Gates vigorously funded the World Health Organization to provided these missions of attempting to eradicate world polio; that is the full extent of their “influence” as laypersons) specifically because it is extremely cost-effective in quantity. To say there is a “child-to-child” transfer of immunity as the result of OPV needs significant qualification: OPV replicates in the human intestine for a limited period of time, building antibodies, then it is excreted. As The WHO notes, “In areas of inadequate sanitation, this excreted vaccine-virus can spread in the immediate community (and this can offer protection to other children through ‘passive’ immunization), before eventually dying out.” Understand the point: the only manner by which another human child experiences the transfer of anything from OPV is contact from material excreted from the intestines of a OPV-vaccinated child.
Further, it is true that in extremely under-immunized populations or where immunization is incomplete or poorly conducted, the excreted OPV can undergo genetic changes in the wild, and under certain rare conditions can produce circulating vaccine-derived poliovirus (cVDPV) capable of producing paralysis. Studies have determined that circulation of more than a year is necessary for occurrence; in well-vaccinated populations it is innocuous. How often does this condition occur? The WHO is not “only now seeing the unintended consequences,” as they began emerging in 2000. Between 2000 and 2015 the WHO recorded 10 billion doses of OPV administered to upwards of 3 billion children worldwide. In that same time period, there were 24 cVDPV outbreaks in 21 separate countries, resulting in less than 800 cases. In 2016, a switch was made to remove a component of OPV further reducing the risk of cVDPV. Likewise, they established the demonstratedly successful protocol of stopping an acute outbreak of cVDPV by immediate, multiple oral vaccinations of children regardless of the source of the virus.
As always, I am troubled that such important topics – the details and complexities of which I have only touched superficially – are addressed with google, conjecture, and “hunches.”
This is a direct quote from the WHO: “OPV consists of a mixture of live attenuated poliovirus strains.” Notice it says **LIVE**. Attenuated means having been reduced in force, effect, or value. It does not mean “similar.” OPV is very much a “live” virus that can/has been known to replicate and revert to neurovirulence in the intestine. The WHO has known about this for a while. Between 1980 and 1992, 109 cases of vaccine-associated polio were reported in the United States which is why we converted over to IPV. The WHO now recommends global transition to IPV.
The “switch” you read about “to remove a component of OPV further reducing the risk of cVDPV in 2016” is still in process. In the meantime, 5 more countries have been impacted with new cases within the last 6 months, specifically on 9/7/18, 10/7/18, 10/18/18, 12/5/18 & 1/22/19. As a matter of fact, the CDC just issued a Level 2 Travel Alert for Indonesia where they only have cVDPV; there are no “wild” cases.
No one can “stop an outbreak” once it has occurred. The impact can only be mitigated through more vaccination.
We’re getting to the point where we’re having to vaccinate, as a result of a vaccine. If that isn’t irony, I don’t know what is.
I have no intention of debating a google scholar. My only recommendation is that you, perhaps, audit a graduate-level course in immunology, followed by an examination of the issues in the context of epidemiology & public health. You throw empty “facts” at me for which you possess a google-driven, shallow understanding, derived from from freak sites – now in 3-minute video increments that, much like manufacturer product inserts, you have no mechanism by which to reasonably evaluate as to voracity. As you attempted to demonstrate to me previously, a practitioner of evidence-based science & medicine, you can’t seem to grasp the fact that this is not simply an argument or debate to be won, but a significantly different manner of thinking. You have purposely or otherwise ignored the fact that 10 billion doses of OPV administered to 3 billion patients has resulted in less than 800 documented cases of cVDPV worldwide. Countless person’s have been spared from the ravages of this and other communicable disease. From an epidemiological point of view, the less than 800 cases are statistically insignificant. Except, of course, to those freaks who love to turn their ignorance into conspiracy. And it leads to the acceptance of “tactics” that are some of the most despicable actions I have read of in a very long time; actions on the part of freaks whose “mission” brings the very angels in heaven to weep in sorrow at the state of our humanity.
I am amused by Ms. Dunn’s comment above that the gov’t “loves to keep us in fear.” Nah. Conspiracy theorist have the market down cold. And it all begins by a comprehensive effort to discredit experts and expert opinion (and is it coincidence that seemingly every researcher who is caught unethically manipulaing data or similar despicable activity immediately claims a conspiracy of gov’t & big pharma to silence them – this current situation is nearly a verbatim replication of the historical issue of schizophrenia); and raises conjecture, anecdote, and “hunches” to the same level of voracity & significance as replicated and refereed research data. But by far the worst is the assault on truth, and the transformation of truth as contextual to “variables”; in other words, truth is a relative concept. And finally, to complete this circle, the internet & social media has made everyone an authority & expert, with an opinion as important & worthy of respect as an experts opinion. Google-driven individuals who have never stepped foot in a hospital, ER, clinic, or ever been directly, critically responsible, quite literally, for the care and treatment of another human being, feels entitled to “school” an expert in the matter of viral disease & immunology and the epidemiological impact, or how the list of “Adverse Side Effects,” provided by the manufacturers themselves, tells “everything I need to know.”
I’m sorry to repeat myself, but I would suggest that the great investment chasing or creating conspiracy would be better invested in direct service to children – I have mentioned the great joy I have derived from spending my lunch hour holding & feeding infants in custody of child protective services when they test positive for opiates or methAMP at birth. I predict it will greatly reduced the anxiety in regard to “live” polio virus administered in Zimbabwe.
No, we’re not going to do this. You are not going to suggest I “audit a graduate-level course in immunology, followed by an examination of the issues in the context of epidemiology & public health” when my entire 40+ year career has been spent on implementing wide-scale health programs, the last being for 350,000 lives in Puerto Rico. Saying something with authority does not make one an authority and frankly, Michael, you present yourself as an authority on everything.
No one is debating whether or not “10 billion doses of OPV administered to 3 billion patients has resulted in less than 800 documented cases of cVDPV worldwide.” That is not the point. The point is that there are currently only 33 cases of “wild” polio in the world today which are believed to be no longer contagious, as the most recent case was reported in 2017.
Conversely, there are 105 recent cases of polio derived from the OPV vaccine in multiple countries who wouldn’t have a single case of polio were it not for the vaccine itself.
It is time to rethink our strategy with respect to polio. – When you have a billionaire who is the second largest contributor to the World Health Organization, with a demonstrated propensity for wanting to eradicate polio at the expense of other needed initiatives, it’s time to rethink letting private citizens buy their way into global decision making roles. https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/
Go online and find a used set of audio CDs with review materials for the medical boads.
You have no reasonable basis to mock my qualifications or experience, nor to even vaguely compare your “entire 40+ year career” to mine. We are not “colleagues” by any stretch of your describing your “experience.” In this country, we provide medical & public health education in a specific, systematized manner for a reason, and google is hardly an equivalent. Do you feel confident you could pass the immunology & epidemiology portions of Step 1 of the US Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), which every single medical student must pass at the end of the second year of study? If not, then you need to educate yourself if you would presume to lecture me. Apparently you are offended by my suggestion, but I am offended by your casting an otherwise astonishing public health accomplishment, with an astonishing safety profile, into yet another conspiracy of the US gov’t and big pharma, with Bill & Melinda Gates – who have dedicated their entire wealth to philanthropy – unfairly cast as “sinister” figures. This is politics, not science.
Finally, you corrected my description of an “attenuated virus” as “similar” to the wild virus. I got the term directly from an explanation in a text of Stanley Plotkin, MD, mentioned by Ms. Meas below (while he is perhaps not the leading authority on vaccines, he certainly is among them). I choose my words carefully.
It’s not “mocking” someone to suggest their pompous, condescending attitude is misplaced.
You did not describe an attenuated virus as “similar” to the wild virus. You emphatically denied a live virus was being used. Specifically, you said: “This bears repeating: no one is being injected with a live viruses [sic].” Your misuse of the word “attenuated” was just an aside. It was your greater point that no one was being injected with a live virus that was of concern. You’re going to have to provide the link to what you read about Stanley Plotkin. There is no way this guy said a live virus was not being used. It just isn’t true.
There is no conspiracy here, Michael. There are facts that you are either denying or misrepresenting. I’m not “offended.” I am worried that you are misleading people.
M.%20Stankovich: “You have no reasonable basis to mock my qualifications or experience”
She is not mocking you. She is providing compelling arguments, that do not match with the views that you absorbed.
If you feel mocked or embarrassed, that is not her fault.
Dr S, I don’t believe that Gail was “mocking” your qualifications. What she was doing (and I’m still somewhat on the fence regarding the whole vax/anti-vax kerfuffle), was bringing up several salient points regarding the OPV. Besides, I’ve long known that she’s a diligent researcher.
While I don’t begrudge Bill Gates his philanthropy on the face of it, I do know that much philanthropy in the past has had deleterious consequences. I’m thinking particularly of John D Rockefeller, Sr, the Ford Foundation, the Pew Foundation, etc. We see this today with the SPLC, a totally discredited racket that slanders people.
Anyway, re vaccinations, two of the GOP candidates for president in 2016 –Rand Paul and Ben Carson–acknowledged that perhaps there was too much vaccination going on. Interestingly, both of these men are MDs.
Salience, Mr. Michalopulos, as measured by, for example, Step 1, is not simply in producing (googled) out-of-context quotations – even when the quotation is correct – but rather “mastery.” What exactly does this mean? Acquired knowledge put into practice.
I have been a designated facility Infection Control Officer a number of times, but consistently for the last several years in a 120-bed facility where patients frequently enter the detox unit from homelessness: complicated TB produced by lack of medication compliance; MRSA complicated by lack of medication compliance; the entire range of Hepatitis A-F, and we have only recently resolved a HAV epidemic in this county -mainly among the homeless – that resulted in more than 25 deaths; various fungal & bacterial infections; treatment-resistant STDs galore; and community-acquired pneumonia & viral meningitis. I believe I am entitled to claim a certain amount of expertise. The attempt to compare “life experience,” 350,000 lives in Puerto Rico notwithstanding, to what will soon be 29-years of clinical practice with living, breathing human beings is ludicrous and patently dishonest. It most certainly was mockery and was fully intended as such.
As to the demand, “You’re going to have to provide the link to what you read about Stanley Plotkin. There is no way this guy said a live virus was not being used. It just isn’t true.” In the world of virology, “live virus,” and “live attenuated virus are extremely different terms. Google apparently was “inept”; I contend that the full answer would be lost on the questioner (if only for the fact that Plotkin himself notes that, “One of the brightest chapters in the history of science is the impact of vaccines on human longevity and health,” yet it is an exceptionally complex subject “that encompasses immunology, molecular biology, and public health”); anyone who who has ever read me knows I am able to scrupulously cite anything I proffer; and I fundamentally refuse to, again, be someone’s research assistant. If you would impose yourself into a debate at this level of discourse, I expect you will be prepared to do so without my instruction. The answers here I have derived from several texts Plotkin authored in virology that any medical student would know; a 1644-page reference volume published by Elsevier entitled, Plotnik’s Vaccines, 7th Ed., 2018, an article in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, “History of vaccination,” (or History of Vaccine Development, 2011, where Plotkin is the editor) supplemented with: Plotkin S. “Vaccines, vaccination, and vaccinology.” J. Infect Dis, 2003; 187:1347–59 and Plotkin S. “Correlates of vaccine-induced immunity.” Clin Infect Dis 2008; 47:401–9.
Over the course of these texts about vaccine classification:
Finally, and most importantly, a general rule of virology – the more similar a vaccine is to the disease-causing form of the organism, the better the immune response to the vaccine – is the key to why live attenuated virus was and continues to be used by The WHO:
As to the question of whether vaccination itself “circumvents our natural immune systems” and “over-vaccination” impacts the natural process of immunity (a “theory” promoted recently by the spouse of a current Cabinet-level gov’t. member such that increases in, for example, the incidence of cancers, where etiology is most likely epigenetic, is attributed to a lack of “exposure” to “typical childhood disease”):
I reiterate that I believe that the emergent issue here is epigenetic, and this will become more significant in regard to prevention and treatment. This is the single statement for which I offer my own speculation.
The above is not in dispute (as of yet). What I dispute is your assertion that you were “mocked”. I don’t believe that that was the case.
When the doctor with hands-on knowledge plus evidence that is presented clearly is corrected with phrases like “you are NOT going do that to ME, I am your equal, your peer, and I know more than you do” (300,000 Puerto Ricans notwithstanding), mockery seems like an appropriate word for Dr. Stankovich to use.
I’m not going to argue with you with respect to what I can or cannot say to Michael. I have known him for a long time. Sometimes friends say to each other, “I’m not going to go there with you. . .” Michael has a lot of knowledge about a lot of things, but so do I. On this subject, I think we’ve arrived at the same place. We both know live viruses are being given to people, people have become sick in expected numbers, those numbers are posing a risk to the rest of the population, and consequently, we may need to alter our strategy.
“I have been a designated facility Infection Control Officer a number of times”
Infection specialists can be in error, even as a group. Group thinking, conformism and self-interest are a powerful factor.
I will give one striking and verified example: pellagra “epidemic”. Compelling Joseph Goldberger’s studies were being rejected as dubious by the experts for several years (until 1937), not before several thousands died.
We need to use some common sense and reasoning. My position is that many of vaccinations carry some risk and cost to the immunological system. That is why the risks and benefits have to carefully calculated. More is not always better.
If you’re not prepared to support what you’re saying, don’t bring it up.
There is nothing in this term paper that supports your contention that (1) live viruses are not being given or that (2) Plotkin stated as such. In fact, you proved both my points by quoting the following: “Live vaccines are derived from “wild,” or disease-causing, viruses or bacteria. These wild viruses or bacteria are attenuated, or weakened. . .” In other words, a live polio vaccine exists (it’s called OPV), and though it has been “weakened,” it has not been inactivated. It is still live.
You have also stated: “Polio vaccination programme so far is due to the use of the live attenuated vaccines in mass campaigns so that transmission of the wild type virus is broken.” As a result, we have more vaccine-induced polio than “wild” polio and the cases of “wild” polio are no longer a threat to the rest of the population. The people who are (a threat) are those who have vaccine-induced polio from the use of OPV.
Perhaps I should have clarified this whole business previously, though I presumed it obvious: we are not in agreement that these rare cases – in context & consideration of the billions of doses of OPV doses safely administered throughout the world – constitute a world public health threat in any significant dimension you would imply, and certainly not thought of in terms of “contagion” when, ultimately, the issues of quantity & cost arise in managing the goal of worldwide eradication. And “migration,” as I have already noted, while possible, is demonstratedly insignificant where there is a sufficient level of immunization, properly administered. It’s that simple.
Further, and most importantly, Plotkin, WA Orenstein, PA Offit, and KM Edwards (who, in some combination, are virtually inseparable in the literature of virology) all agree on one fact: the live attenuated vaccine OPV, of itself, is not responsible for circulating vaccine derived polio viruses (cVDPV); if this were the case, we would be inundated, in fact overwhelmed, by new cases of polio. Perhaps you need to reread what I presented directly from Plotnik’s Vaccines, 7th Ed., 2018 (I don’t know where you got the idea this was a “term paper”):
What exactly are being referred to here by the term events to which there are causative “mutations and recombinations?” The terms alone should have been a tip off that the issue, as I have insisted, is epigenetic; transmittable, inheritable mutated genetic changes that do not affect the underlying genome (cf. Epigenetics: How Environment Shapes Our Genes by Richard Francis, MD. Exceptionally well-written and $1.66 hardcover (used) on Amazon). What “events” have been described so far? First of all, these high-risk excretors of virus that has undergone genetic mutation and/or “rejuvenation” are nothing short of statistical anomaly; I am sorry to again repeat the fact that with 10 million administered doses there are less than 800 documented cases over nearly 20-years. I would invite you to do the incidence calculation for cases per 100,000 people yourself and match it against the safety profile of other live attenuated vaccines. As noted by Plotkin above, in the US, the figure is already calculated at 1-in-500,000. By any stretch of the imagination, I don’t know how else to support the insistence by Plotkin, WA Orenstein, PA Offit, and KM Edwards that this condition is “rare.” Quickly, other identified events are as simple as temperature (as noted, live attenuated vaccines are subject to instability & degredation in temperatures >37 degrees C [98.6 degrees F]; significantly more likely in immuno-comprised individuals; significantly more likely in areas of poor hygiene and medical care; and significantly more likely in under-immunized and improperly immunized areas.
And Madonna Mia! If there is another way to state that there is a fundamental distinction in fact and in terminology between “live viruses” and “live attenuated viruses?” Yeah, I get that they both contain the word “live,” and while “live attenuated viruses” are “live” in as much as Plotkin notes they “retain the ability to replicate (grow) and produce immunity,” they rarely cause illness. And in the end, that is the discussion here.
To Martin’s comment above, my reaction is that there is a subtle undertone of “suspect any scientific information and its proponents at face,” with which I completely concur is critical. Nevertheless, when I read, “Group thinking, conformism and self-interest are a powerful factor,” I begin to think this is intended to suggest that medical decisions are being made for less than causes – as the OCA’s former Met. Theodosius used to say – “worthy of a blessing.” Certainly, the world is fallen and where humans gather there is bound to be actions and activities that are self-serving financially and otherwise, based upon deceit and corruption. And so it goes… It seems to me that the advice of the Apostle whom the Lord loved covers considerable ground: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” (1Jn. 4:1) I would also wager – based upon my pure anecdotal observation – that when we are experiencing symptoms of some profound disorder, we look into the eyes of someone entrusted with our well-being – or more importantly, the well-being of someone we love and cherish – and trust and pray that they possess “group thinking, conformism and self-interest” expressed in an evidence-base of ethical best practices. I could be isolated, but these are, in fact, the sort of practitioners I have chosen to surround myself with, and because of whom I am a better practitioner. There is no question that “many [and I add, if not all] of vaccinations carry some risk,” but unless you have more to convince me, I must conclude, for the time being, that your position that vaccinations exert a “cost to the immunological system,” is, at best, shortsighted.
I can’t seem to emphasize how complex this issue has actually become, based upon our understanding of genetics and molecular biology, and then attempting to grasp it in the context of world health. My reaction was to find it directly “associated” and posted in response to gross disinformation by posters uninterested in the exchange of information or discussion, but only intent upon chastizing fools too blind and ignorant to “see” the reality of politics, not science. It was inappropriate that this topic was positioned in such a way, and I’ve done my best to correct this situation. And now I’m finished.
Mr. Stankovich “there is a subtle undertone of suspect any scientific information and its proponents at face”
You are right. This is what a true science is based on – on questioning everything and constant change. But scientists being human, tend to develop group interest and stick to the comfortable familiar konowledge. That is why, often a progress happens when the older generation of scientists, holding to cherished opinions dies out 😉
“your position that vaccinations exert a “cost to the immunological system,” is, at best, shortsighted. ”
What?! Excessive vaccinations, do not exert a cost?
Dr. Stankovich,
My observations are merely anecdotal, but you might find my experience interesting. When I was born, my aunt contracted polio. My mother decided to become her caretaker so when I was six months old, she and I were received the polio vaccine. We stated with my aunt for one year while my mother nursed her back to health. As a grown man, I chastised my mother saying her first priority was her husband and new born son, not her stupid sister. I told her that was her mother’s responsibility. My mother said that I was not neglected at all, I believer her, but it still rankled me because I thought my father and I should have been her first priority. My mother said, “What if she couldn’t walk?” My response was, “I don’t care.” Anyway , I was six months old when I received the oral vaccine, and was living with a person who had polio for one year from the time I was six months old until I was one and one half years old.
To Martin, you need to make a clear distinction between the impact of a live virus and a live attenuated virus. It is a fact that an infection with a viral disease impacts the natural ability of the immune system to protect & fight against other affronts to the immune system, in some cases profoundly so. A child who has contracted measles, for example, is immediately suseptible to the impact of other pathogens because of the limited resources of the immune system. It is always problematic when an antibiotic given to focus the immune system on a particular pathogen, results in a “cross-infection” from another. This does not happen with live attenuated vaccinations, as a weakened virus provokes a response from the immune system – a response the immune system “remembers” – but does not cause disease. In effect, it bolsters the immune system, not suppress it’s ability to function. There is also no evidence that multiple vaccines – and the majority of vaccines for childhood diseases are live attenuated virus – administered at the same time (for example mumps, measles, Rubella, or diptheria, tetanus, whooping cough adversely affect the natural immune system in an otherwise healthy child. Unfortunately, some have come to believe disproven theories, wild conjecture, outright fraud, and Rolling Stone magazine rather than replicated science. I seriously recommend an examination of the theories of schizophrenia as a perfect example of this phenomenon. Finally, this is not intended to dismiss adverse effects and so on related to vaccinations, but beyond the scope of this forum.
Constantinos, I believe you were making a point about the contagiousness of poliovirus – why vaccinate a child who lived with someone who had polio. It seems that individuals who have contracted polio can themselves be contagious to others as long as 14-days before showing symptoms. Acute polio is measured in terms of weeks (If I’m not mistaken, paralysis of the lower limbs was considered permanent if there was no reflex response after 15-days). As has been mentioned in this thread, they will continue to excrete the virus for approximately 30-days. If you were living in the presence of your aunt after 30-days, she was no longer contagious.
As a pharmacist, I can tell you that polio vaccines that use attenuated live viruses have caused disease. Clinically, vaccine-derived polio is virtually indistinguishable from “wild” polio. In an effort to stem the dissemination of disinformation, I am putting a moratorium on this discussion until further notice.
Yes very sad, discussion led by ignorance
I am not sure if my comment went through as it said it was waiting? If so please feel free to disregard this one. Which is the same.
I have two vaccine injured children one on the spectrum and one that had serious language delays and regression of speech. I was very pro-vaccine before. I did everything I was told to do following the CDC, I had complete trust. I had no idea how unsafe these shots truly are. My last two children are vaccine free and are completely developmentally normal and nothing like my first two. We are being lied too and it’s coming to light now thank GOD. The inserts we are not given tell the true risks. None of the adverse reactions my children had were even on the little printout you get at the Dr. office. IF we knew what to report to VAERS they would be FLOODED with reports. I didn’t even know what VAERS was till 5 years ago and it’s too late to report. I had to homeschool my first two children because of these injuries, it’s life changing. Spectrum disorders are a cover up and should be labeled vaccine induced autism. Don’t get me started on the high SIDS rates in this country, also a side effect listed in the insert. Watch the deposition on YouTube by Dr. Stanley Plotkin a vaccinologist and the leading authority on vaccines. Out of his mouth he tells you everything you want to know. 9 hours worth of it all, as far the safety, experiments, proper testing and aborted babies used in the development of this “medicine”. Our government is bought and paid for right now, the Pharmaceutical companies lobby and win. We need to repeal the 1986 Act so they can be sued for harm. Our children suffer and die and they line their pockets with money. How can we assume we can make medicine on the bodies of murdered babies and not suffer from the result of that alone?
George u have it in one. It’s a matter of degree. My niece who has Phd in medical science, is very careful re her daughter.
I worry about the extremes on both sides and how an issue to do with science has become political and how sensible vaccination is being ignored and measles, for instance, levels, rising.
Individual tragedy is tragic but u cannot make blanket claims from them. The issues have been intensely investigated.
I am health professional myself.
You have to remember the soviets used oriental medicine to cut costs. I accept that many traditional medicines have efficacy and are homologues to many modern medicines. The FDA overreacted and banned a lot of traditional “snake oil”. A lot of the pre-FDA meds can be found online in scanned versions of the US Dispensatory. But the ideology of a lot of traditional medicine is off the wall. If you want to decry syncretism, this is it. It is downright witch doctor stuff. Still, a lot of meds today have also gone overboard. See https://sites.google.com/site/deplorablepolicyguide/
Much of so-called Chinese medicine is founded on an anthropology/theology that is incompatible with Orthodox teaching. Some of it can co-exist if properly understood but much cannot.
As to vacines, much of the early opposition had to do with the binders and other delivery compounds in the vaccines. Is that no longer an issue?
Michael Bauman: “Much of so-called Chinese medicine is founded on an anthropology/theology that is incompatible with Orthodox teaching. ”
I am not sure. If it works and is real, then it is true. If it is true then it is compatible with Orthodoxy, or rather unrelated.
Pagan physicians in Apostolic times were different than today, yet they were to be respected.
“I accept that many traditional medicines have efficacy and are homologues to many modern medicines. The FDA overreacted and banned a lot of traditional “snake oil”.
FDA did not “overreact”. FDA had a mission to suppress cheap competition to the rising big pharma.
Alas, there is more than a little truth here. I say this with a heavy heart. There’s more than a little “snake oil” with much of Big Pharma as it is.
Personally, as an aside, one of the reasons I published this excellent piece was because it brings up another very salient point. Which is this: in the recent past, Fakebook has gone out of its way to deny that it jiggered and/or suppressed its so-called algorithms in any way. Now of course, it’s changing its tune, saying that it is preventing “vaccine hoaxes” from seeing the light of day.
This is a backhanded admission that it does in fact suppress and censor news stories which doesn’t fit the globalist narrative. This admission to me, is huge.