And now from our responsible opposing viewpoint editorialist:
“What’s all this fuss about Aurelian having a big head? He was a great leader. Of course, he had a big head. He needed it for his big brain. That shouldn’t keep us from recognizing him. A lot of people have big heads. . !”
“Ms Litella. . . Ms Litella. . . , that’s Ukrainian, not Aurelian and it’s autocephalous, not macrocephalous.”
“Ohhhhh. That’s very different. Nevermind.”
Like Emily Litella, one can get lost due to the sheer number of iterations of the Church of Greece with respect to the Ukrainian problem and this “Gilda” ain’t happy.
First, Mr Dumenko makes the statement that the Orthodox Church of Ukraine is de facto recognized by the Church of Greece. Then the Church of Greece says that’s not necessarily the case and decides to put aside the matter until their next session. Then they decide that Bartholomew CAN grant autocephaly but not necessarily to Ukraine. Then they decide to kick the can down the road until their fall session. Then they decide to hand it off like a hot potato to the other bishops. Then they decide they won’t make a decision in October. Then they decide they will make a decision in October. Then they decide it will be up to Archbishop Ieronymos. Then they decided they will allow the Bishops’ Council of the Greek Church to address the issue at their recent session. Then Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos makes an announcement that says they decided to recognize Ukraine. Now, Metropolitans Seraphim of Piraeus and Seraphim of Kythira say a vote was never taken so they didn’t reach a decision.
OK, got it? That’s about as clear as mud. If I have inadvertently gotten this out of order, you’ve got to forgive me. There is a lot to keep track of.
Personally, I think that this was a trial balloon, to see how the rest of the Orthodox world would take it. Well, if so, then they got their answer and it wasn’t positive. To the extent that we here at Monomakhos had a role in derailing this crazy train, then we can take some satisfaction with doing the Lord’s work. Not just me and my editorial staff, but you, all of you, Dear Readers.
We don’t live in a vacuum. John Donne was right, “no man is an island, independent of the main”. We need each other and yes, our leaders need us, as well. Vox populi, vox Dei (“the voice of the people is the voice of God”).
So did it work? Did they hear the foot-stomping reverberations of the people? I hope so. But we won’t know for sure until this Saturday evening when Archbishop Ieronymus celebrates Great Vespers. Who will he commemorate as the Metropolitan of Kiev? Onuphriy, the legitimate Metropolitan whom every other primate (except for Bartholomew) commemorates in the Diptychs or the imposter Sergei Dumenko?
You see, this is what I think really happened: The bishops of the Church of Greece decided to muddy the waters and leave it up to their primate, Ieronymus to “take the snake out of the hole” (an old Greek cliché). Their hope is that he will just go ahead and say “Epiphany” when the time comes and that nobody will notice. It’ll be a “ho-hum” type of affair and once it’s done, it’s done. He could even mutter it under his breath, almost an afterthought if you will.
Unfortunately, the populi voiced their disapproval. The old way of doing things through obfuscation is no longer viable. And so Ieronymus is caught between a rock and a hard place. His bishops made this situation untenable, that is if all you care about is politics. (Who to please? the people or his paymasters in the government?) But a churchman shouldn’t care about politics. Better men than the present primate have felt the wrath of the world: Athanasius, Chrysostom, Maximus, and others too numerous to name all faced prison, exile, mutilation or even death.
Fortunately, Ieronymus won’t have to suffer anything that dreadful should he stand up to the globalists. That thought alone should make his choice fairly easy. So is he going to recognize “Aurelian and his big head” or not?
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Church of Greece doing something like this instead:
If it is true that they didn’t actually recognize the schismatic “OCU” this is a great relief to me. Glory to God!!!! Even though it’s most likely that Archbishop Jerome will at some point commemorate that “Epiphany” character, this revelation means that the hierarchy of the COG is not compromised, and will not be in schism.
Archbishop Ieronymos’ commemoration of the schismatic Epifanios at the altar would be the definitive act of a compromised hierarchy of the Church of Greece.
I am a realist (an oftentimes a skeptic). The CP is not going to send heartfelt thanks to the Church of Greece unless he is sure that this is a done deal.
The Archbishop will commemorate Mr. Dumenko on Saturday, thus bringing the Church of Greece into communion with the schismatics. The result will be a widening schism in world Orthodoxy and an internal schism in the Church of Greece.
I pray that I am wrong.
So I am checking out my Facebook page and up pops a post entitled, “Metropolitans Seraphim of Piraeus and Kythira say no vote happened, no recognition of OCU” to which I reply My, my, my. Before I can finish reading the post, a reply from a site called “Greek Orthodox Christianity” replies with something like if it makes you feel better to believe Russian bots and their disgusting propaganda, go ahead.” I replied, my feelings have nothing to do with it…I just want to know if the Greek church made a decision? No reply. The thread was then deleted. When I went to the site to check this out, I see that it has been liked by the archons, the GOA and the EP. Thirty-two people have liked the site, so it must be new (or underwhelming).
I have to say I was shocked to read their characterizations of this issue–Here is one of their comments, “Russian propaganda and Anti-Greek abuse is in overdrive, as the Pan-Slavists from Russia and their deranged followers, come to terms with the recognition of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine.” Zowie.
I just want to thank everyone on this blog for being able to weigh in on these issues with real feeling but without totally succumbing to the rhetoric displayed on a site that styles itself “Greek Orthodox Christianity.” A visit to this site is an eye-opener and helps me understand the program this past week to help people in the diocese understand the existential threat to the EP. Existential threat? Am I missing something here? (I did not make it to the program.)
Susan, so you like “eye-openers”? Check this out: http://www.oxiday.com/blog
Groan, Gail. But then again, according to the “Greek Orthodox Christianity” site, I am a racist. No wait. I am a Pan-Slavic racist. No wait. I am a brain-washed Pan-Slavic racist. And I could have gladly gone my whole life without ever hearing about cake porn. My eyes are certainly more open than they were before!
You took the red pill. Now it’s too late to close them!
Susan, what is seen cannot be unseen; once the bell is rung it can’t be unrung. 🙂
Susan, the last refuge of schismatics is to hurl the epithet “racists!” Or some variation (“Pan-Slavists!”) thereof. If that’s the best they got then you know we’re on the right side. Fortunately, the word “racist” has been drained of all meaning thanks to its promiscuous use.
A tangent if you please: I despise Freud for being mostly wrong about almost everything but when he was right, he was right. He was right about “projection”, we are going to be seeing it in spades.
I can hear the bleat of the Fordham liberals now,” oooo,ooooo, Pan -Slaaaavism.
LOL! What pathetic creatures they are.
Yesterday, I took the liberty of reading prophecies from Ss Paissios and Lawrence of Chernigov and Elder Joseph. Sobering. Do I believe them? Let me put it this way: regarding the officially-sanctioned apostasy (from Cpole) which they peddle, it all seems to be coming to pass.
How do I explain it as an admittedly amateur historian, a rationalist? I can’t.
Mr. Michalopulos, where would you recommend reading these prophecies? I came across some a ways back on various websites, but wasn’t sure as to their authenticity. It would be greatly appreciated if you could point me towards a reliable source.
For the one on St Lawrence of Chernigov, go to http://www.orthochristian.com.
https://orthochristian.com/77399.html
Think of it like this. You know how the far left political groups like to apply terrible labels to those who don’t agree with them? But in reality, they are the ones who embody these characteristics? For example, Antifa likes to say they are anti-fascist, and that they target the nasty fascists. But in reality, they are the fascists (and communists). It’s the same thing here. The Greek brown shirts are out in force accusing big bad Russia of bullying and threatening and propaganda. But the only bullying, threatening, and propaganda…is coming from C’pole and their sycophants. For a perfect example of this, take a look at the garbage that spews from many of the Archons….and the “renown theologians” at Fordham.
Or as I like to call the Fordhamites: “the Undynamic Duo”.
Dear Mikhail,
I have noticed that as well, far too often. I was very saddened to here a poster Gregory in another thread say “The right of the Ecumenical Patriarch to hear appeals, which the Holy Fathers granted, is still a canon law of our Church, regardless of your hatred of the Great Church of Christ.”
I have many Orthodox friends, Americans, Russians, Greeks etc. and I do not know a single one that has hatred for the Great Church of Christ, quite the contrary, there are schismatics that actually do though, they are just using Constantinople for aggressive reasons against the Russian Orthodox Church and all the Orthodox Churches, “whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it”
All of my Orthodox Christian friends lament this situation precisely because they actually care, very much indeed, such an insult is indicative of what you have mentioned. If a person is actually ok with a Hierarchical Council meeting and the fruit of that meeting is confusion and more of a schism, and they say “God bless the Hierarchical Council of the Church of Greece!” then many of us simply see things much differently. “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”
God has not forsaken Orthodox Christians that place their hope in him as opposed to those that place their hope in the globalist left and the U.S. services that will sell them out in a heart beat irrespective of their worldly aspirations.
Matthew, another case of projection. I for one, have absolutely no hatred for the See of Constantinople. At all. Only for what it’s doing throughout the Orthodox world.
Mikhail, I like your usage of the word sycophants; when I was in the military we used to call them a__kissers, but sycophants is a better term. Years ago I was trying to explain the definition of sycophants to my wife, who left the U.S. to do her BA and Master’s work in Mexico out of Berkeley High, when suddenly her eyes lit up and she said, “yes, I get it, achichincles.” Then it was my turn to be dumbfounded, “achichincles, ind of a word is that?” She replied, “its’ an Aztec word for ‘Lesser Lords.” I believe her because her college major was Mezo-American Anthropology, she knows a lot of Aztec words.
Somehow my writing got messed up above. In the messed up sentence above, I said to my wife, “achichincles, what kind of a word is that?”
That’s a funny story, Jackson. But quite frankly, I think your military definition is the most accurate. : )
https://orthochristian.com/124664.html
I’m totally confused. However if the CofG did not recognize the Ukrainian Schismatics the Glory be to God. The old girl is not completely compromised.
We need a real pan-orthodox council and quick. We just thwarted the Globalist’s plans in Syria and we got peace in Syria. We can thwart their plans in the Ukraine. We need a council.
Peter A. Papoutsis
Peter,
a previous EP (I think Demetrios) told the Pope who wanted to sign Union:
“Even if we sign Union, if the people do not agree, then we have achieved nothing”.
.
He was absolutely right.
.
So, it is now our turn, the people’s turn:
We shall not put to practice what they, by themselves, have agreed, voted, or signed.
We shall exercise the right of the Orthodox people, indeed the largest number in side the Church.
The Church is also the millions of simple laity, not just Bartholomew! We are not Roman Catholics, no way!
If Bartholomew and his instruments do not want to listen, then we shall go to other Orthodox Bishops who do not agree with Bartholomew and his ouvertures. Fortunately, there many of them out there!
Brilliantly put. Whether Ieronymus says the magic words “Epiphany, Metropolitan of Kiev and all-Ukraine” or not, the damage to the CoG is done. Her candlestick will be extinguished. As such, it will wither, hopefully the greater share of those Greek Christians who take their religion seriously will start going to the nearest Old Calendar Church in Greece.
Really? You’re promoting the Old Calanderist schismatics? Better to remain in resistance than to run off into schism on the other side.
Dan, not promoting it. Predicting it. Big difference.
The question every Greek Christian has to answer is this: who is in schism?
I’m not gonna say that I know the answer definitively. All I can say is based on what I see, the EP is causing turmoil everywhere. If that isn’t a sign of schism, I don’t know what is.
Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise that ROCOR provided canonicity to the Greek Old Calendarists way black when. After all, the MP has officially recognized that ROCOR has always been a part of the Russian Orthodox Church, now an indissoluble part.
I don’t know if he’ll say “Epiphany” this weekend, but he has communed with Epiphany in the recent past. Isn’t this confirmation that he recognizes the OCU?
“. . . That paved the way for Archbishop Ieronymos to join the primate of the new Ukrainian church, Epifaniy, and many other Bartholomew-minded hierarchs at celebrations in Istanbul of the Ecumenical Patriarch’s personal feast-day on June 11th.”
https://www.economist.com/erasmus/2019/06/15/the-gift-of-overcoming-barriers-eludes-the-worlds-orthodox-christians
Peter, re: Syria. Trump is going to have the last laugh on the globalists on that one.
Yesterday I saw Sen Lindsey Graham on one of the chat shows. He’s completely changed his tune regarding Trump’s decision. Graham’s reasoning did not make sense at all but I have to believe that somehow, Trump gave him a massive fig leaf.
And what, perchance may that fig leaf be? My spider-sense is tingling and it tells me that there will soon be an opening on SCOTUS. In other words, Graham and other conservatives of an interventionist bent will have bigger fish to fry.
If I am reading the tea leaves correctly, three words: Amy. Coney. Barrett. If so, let the fireworks begin. It will be the battle royale of all time.
Sorry, Peter. It’s too late for a council. The Greek Patriarch of Fener will not call one nor would he abide by any decisions made by a council not called by himself (e.g. if Alexandria or Jerusalem convened a council).
No, we have a genuine schism in the Church now.
The Synod of the Church of Greece-which calls itself “Holy” came out strongly to state that their press release was accurate and they indeed recognized what they believe to be the “autocephaly” of the Ukrainian schismatics.
See:
https://orthodoxia.info/news/%ce%ba%ce%b1%ce%b9-%ce%b7-%ce%b9%ce%b5%cf%81%ce%ac-%cf%83%cf%8d%ce%bd%ce%bf%ce%b4%ce%bf%cf%82-%ce%b4%ce%b9%ce%b1%cf%88%ce%b5%cf%8d%ce%b4%ce%b5%ce%b9-%cf%84%ce%bf%ce%bd-%ce%ba%cf%85%ce%b8%ce%ae%cf%81/
I tend to agree with you Ioan. The path of C’pole has been very intentional for a very long time. But the current CP has pressed the throttle to the floor and put the situation on steroids. I believe his ultimate goal is union with Rome/uniates. As we can see, this is already developing with the new schismatic group in Ukraine, and with Bartholomew’s hyper-ecumenism in general. I think he wants to leave a legacy of being the one who united East and West. Sadly, history will only remember him as a creator of massive schism.
“…the participants of the synod pass judgment on the unconvinced of the Church, but praise the ones that stood against her, yet those that preach of her and struggle for her, they call them heretics. I however do not preach my own beliefs nor have I innovated anything, nor do I stand for some strange dogma or rule but I abide to her extreme glory”.
St Mark of Ephesus
Was it St. Paisios who said that in such times in which we now find ourselves that God would raise up a new St. Mark of Ephesus?
Raise quickly, O Lord! Arise Mark!
File this one under: “Clear as Mud”.
https://orthochristian.com/124734.html
Then there is this:
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/32319-dieukriniseis-mitropolitou-kuthiron-pros-tin-iera-sunodo-kai-ton-paronajias-kalliniko-
The way I read it, the Metropolitan of Kithira is saying that no vote was taken.
“Ἀπόφασις, κατά τά ἰσχύοντα εἰς τήν ἐκκλησιαστικήν καί τήν πολιτειακήν νομοθεσίαν, λαμβάνεται μετά τήν εἰσήγησιν τοῦ ὁρισθέντος εἰσηγητοῦ (καί ἐν προκειμένῳ τοῦ Μακ. Προέδρου), τήν ἐπ’ αὐτῆς διεξοδικήν συζήτησιν καί τήν ἐπακολουθοῦσαν ψηφοφορίαν (φανεράν, μυστικήν ἤ δι’ ἀνατάσεως τῆς χειρός). ”
Decisions, according to the ecclesiastical and civil legislation, are taken by introduction [of the proposal] . . . , a full discussion, and following that a vote (open, secret, or through show of hands).” [My translation which is subject to correction.]
Μή γενομένης ψηφοφορίας καθ’ ἕνα ἐκ τῶν ὡς ἄνω τριῶν τρόπων, τήν ὁποίαν εὐτόνως ἐζήτησε ὁ Σεβ. Ἀδελφός Μητροπολίτης Καισαριανῆς κ.Δανιήλ (καί ἐπεσήμανε τήν ἔλλειψίν της εἰς συνέντευξίν του ὁ Σεβ. Μητροπολίτης Μεσογαίας κ.Νικόλαος), καί προφανῶς ἐξέφρασε τήν βούλησιν ἐμοῦ καί ἄλλων Σεβ. Ἀδελφῶν, εἰπών μετά παρρησίας: ἐάν θέλετε ἀπόφασιν θά πρέπει νά γίνῃ ψηφοφορία, καί μάλιστα φανερή, μέ ποῖον τρόπον δύναται νά ἀποκρυσταλλωθῇ μέ ἀκρίβεια μία ἀπόφασις, ὅταν ἔχωμεν ἕνα πλῆθος ἑπτά καί πλέον δεκάδων ἀνθρώπων; καί
He goes on to say that no vote took place under any of the above mentioned three methods, a vote which had been requested by Metr. Daniel of Kaisariani (and the absence of which vote was noted in an interview by Metr. Nikolaos of Mesoghaia), and which clearly expressed his desire and that of other Brothers.
Of course, on Saturday we will see whether the Archbishop of Athens, who so far as certainly shown a profile in courage, will celebrate with Bartholomew in Thessaloniki and, if so, will refer to “Epifanii.”
Blimbax,
GOOD NEWS (as it could be a lot worse!):
.
RUSSIAN HOLY SYNOD: WE WILL STOP COMMEMORATING GREEK PRIMATE IF HE BEGINS TO COMMEMORATE OR RECOGNIZE SCHISMATICS
…..
The Russian Synod’s statement concludes: “The Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church authorizes His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and all Russia to stop commemorating the name of His Beatitude the Archbishop of Athens and All Greece in the diptychs if the primate of the Greek Church begins to commemorate the head of one of the Ukrainian schismatic groups during Divine services or takes other actions testifying to his recognition of the Ukrainian Church schism.”
.
Full text:
https://orthochristian.com/124782.html
Thank God, a VERY WISE DECISION OF MP.
Glory to God in the highest!
Another interesting paragraph;
.
At the same time, the canons of the Church condemn those who pray or concelebrate with those who are defrocked or excommunicated, and thus the Russian Church “ceases prayerful and Eucharistic communication with those bishops of the Greek Church who have entered or will enter into such communication with representatives of the Ukrainian non-canonical schismatic communities.”
And this is a very interesting paragraph from the fuller text in Greek from https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/32344-i-dilosi-tou-patriarxeiou-mosxas-gia-tin-ekklisia-tis-ellados
We also do not give our blessings on pilgrimage trips to provinces, which are shepherded by these hierarchs.
That’l teach ’em
There’s always the threat of Russian pilgrims not going to Greece.
Statement of the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church..
This is the final full text in English.
Source:
https://mospat.ru/en/2019/10/17/news178948/
For what it’s worth. I think the Church of Albania will recognise the crooks in Ukraine. Perhaps they can do it on 28th October and make it a truly greek affair. Followed by Romania. They already do well in mock Latin!!
I do not know about Finland but they may not. Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem. SERBIA, Bulgaria, Bielorussia, and the japonese church etc will I believe not either. AND there U have a schism and I do not see an end. Truly bartholomaios is Cursed. ANAXIOS ANAXIOS ANAXIOS.
Finland is an autonomous church under Constantinople.The Belarusian and Japanese churches belong to Moscow, though the latter is autonomous.
As for myself, I no longer mention the names of the two Ukrainian US bishops or any other EP hierarch in Proscomedia. I will commune EP laity, since I cannot take a stronger stand than my bishop. If the OCA really does submit to the EP; I will leave, with or without my parish.
Bravo!
God aid you Fr!
Thank you, Father. May God preserve the OCA from such a grave error. As a layperson I would have to do the same, painful as it would be to leave the Church of Vladika Dmitri and the devout dear clergy and parishioners there. After reading the award winner’s deceptive acceptance speech to the Archons this week-end ~ and with no visible objection from the GOA hierarchy or priests to the events ~ I cannot visit or worship at a GOA Church in peace at present. Hoping the GOA Laity will speak the truth in love as you have counseled previously. And that the Local Patriarchs and Monks of Mt Athos will lead the way to a reversal of the unfolding tragedy so that GOA priests do not have to “go elsewhere.”
Thank you all for your support, but I haven’t really done anything outstanding. I’m living in relative comfort in the United States. I have seen plenty of foolishness from Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs, and others. But I have never really suffered for the Faith. My brother priests in Ukraine are the real confessors here. I pray for them and for the martyred church of Serbia daily.
You’re standing up, Father, and when you stand up, you’re standing up for them.
Fr, I concur with Gail. You are standing up for the truth and even though you’re anonymous, don’t think that the laity don’t appreciate it. We need direction. We’re not getting it from /Arb Hope-bearer and the Fat Cats who are shameless propping up Sergei Dumenko as some sort of Gandhi-figure.
How Dumenko can speak of Martin Luther King, while at least some of his followers act like KKK members, just floors me! Perhaps Louis Farrakhan is more Dumenko’s type. And Farrakhan did say Hitler was a great man!
Okay, here’s the latest, in case someone hasn’t already seen it:
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/32333-prot-nikolaos-sabbopoulos-stin-ektakti-isi-egine-sunodiko-prajikopima-eis-baros-tou-arxiepiskopou
Protopresbyter Nikolaos Savvopoulos was interviewed by Romfea. The article begins as follows. (I am only posting a portion of it in order to convey the flavor of Savvopoulos’ remarks. He does not pull his punches, and I hope that the entire interview is translated by someone more skilled than I am. The translation offered below is mine and therefore I am posting the original Greek so that anyone who wants can find the pertinent portions and provide a better translation):
Ζητήσαμε από τον πρωτοπρ. Νικόλαο Σαββόπουλο τ. εκπρόσωπο της Εκκλησίας της Ελλάδος στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση να μας σχολιάσει τις τελευταίες εξελίξεις στο ουκρανικό και μας μας απάντησε ως εξής στις ερωτήσεις μας:
We requested from Protopresbyter Nikolaos Savvopoulos current representative of the Church of Greece to the European Union to comment on the latest developments in the Ukrainian (matter) and he responded as follows:
Η όλη διαδικασία κινήθηκε στα πλαίσια ενός νεφελώδους τοπίου, χωρίς να αφήνεται το περιθώριο, όχι μόνο στον πιστό λαό της Ελλάδος, ούτε βεβαίως στους κληρικούς αλλά ούτε ακόμη και στους ίδιους τους Ιεράρχες, για να έχουν μια σαφή εικόνα για τις προθέσεις και τις κινήσεις αυτών που ετοίμασαν την Έκτακτη Ιεραρχία.
The entire procedure moved in the framework of a cloudy space [i.e., in murkiness], without leaving the margins [tr. note: this is a bit unclear to me], not only for the faithful people of Greece, not certainly for the clergy but not even for the same hierarchs, so that they might have a clear picture of the proposals and movements of those who prepared the Special [meeting?] of the Hierarchy.
Αυτό γίνεται σαφές και από τις αναλυτικές επισημάνσεις του Σεβ. Κυθήρων Σεραφείμ, ο οποίος στις πολύ εύστοχες περιγραφές του για τα τεκταινόμενα εντός της Συνόδου μας ανέφερε ότι, κατά την τελευταία ΔΙΣ, η οποία αποφάσισε το «προνόμιο» του Οικουμενικού Πατριάρχου και το «δικαίωμα» του Αρχιεπισκόπου, δόθηκε το «κοινό πόρισμα» των δύο Συνοδικών Επιτροπών στους αρχιερείς απλά για να το παρατηρήσουν «φωτογραφικά» και όχι για να το μελετήσουν και μάλιστα με ταχύτητα αποσύρθηκε αμέσως από τη συνεδρίαση.
This becomes clear also from the analytical highlights provided by His Eminence Serapheim of Kythera, who in his well targeted descriptions of what happened in the Synod brought to our attention that, according to the last Synod, which decided on the “privilege” of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the “right” of the Archbishop, the “common findings” of the two Synodical Committees was given to the hierarchs simply for them to see them “photographically” (tr. note: in other words, superficially) and not for them to study them and in fact they were withdrawn swiftly and immediately from the meeting.
Δεν ξέρω εάν καταλαβαίνετε το τέχνασμα. Κλήθηκαν οι Αρχιερείς για να αποφασίσουν για ένα θέμα που διχάζει την ολόκληρη την Ορθοδοξία και δεν μπόρεσαν να μελετήσουν το πόρισμα των αρμοδίων επιτροπών στις οποίες οι ίδιοι είχαν αναθέσει το έργο να εισηγηθούν. [Par.] Αλήθεια ποιος φαεινός εκκλησιαστικός νους μηχανεύτηκε κάτι τέτοιο.
I do not know if you understand the trick [or, subterfuge or “slight of hand”]. The Hierarchs met in order to make a decision concerning an issue which is dividing all of Orthodoxy and they were not able to study the findings of the pertinent committees to which the same had referred the matter. [Par.] Truly, what brilliant ecclesiastical mind engineered this.
* * * * * * *
Okay, here’s the latest, in case someone hasn’t already seen it:
https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/32333-prot-nikolaos-sabbopoulos-stin-ektakti-isi-egine-sunodiko-prajikopima-eis-baros-tou-arxiepiskopou
Protopresbyter Nikolaos Savvopoulos was interviewed by Romfea. The article begins as follows. (I am only posting a portion of it in order to convey the flavor of Savvopoulos’ remarks. He does not pull his punches, and I hope that the entire interview is translated by someone more skilled than I am. The translation offered below is mine and therefore I am posting the original Greek so that anyone who wants can find the pertinent portions and provide a better translation):
Ζητήσαμε από τον πρωτοπρ. Νικόλαο Σαββόπουλο τ. εκπρόσωπο της Εκκλησίας της Ελλάδος στην Ευρωπαϊκή Ένωση να μας σχολιάσει τις τελευταίες εξελίξεις στο ουκρανικό και μας μας απάντησε ως εξής στις ερωτήσεις μας:
We requested from Protopresbyter Nikolaos Savvopoulos immediate past representative of the Church of Greece to the European Union to comment on the latest developments in the Ukrainian (matter) and he responded as follows:
Η όλη διαδικασία κινήθηκε στα πλαίσια ενός νεφελώδους τοπίου, χωρίς να αφήνεται το περιθώριο, όχι μόνο στον πιστό λαό της Ελλάδος, ούτε βεβαίως στους κληρικούς αλλά ούτε ακόμη και στους ίδιους τους Ιεράρχες, για να έχουν μια σαφή εικόνα για τις προθέσεις και τις κινήσεις αυτών που ετοίμασαν την Έκτακτη Ιεραρχία.
The entire procedure moved in the framework of a cloudy space [i.e., in murkiness], without leaving the margins [tr. note: this is a bit unclear to me], not only for the faithful people of Greece, not certainly for the clergy but not even for the same hierarchs, so that they might have a clear picture of the proposals and movements of those who prepared the Special [meeting?] of the Hierarchy.
Αυτό γίνεται σαφές και από τις αναλυτικές επισημάνσεις του Σεβ. Κυθήρων Σεραφείμ, ο οποίος στις πολύ εύστοχες περιγραφές του για τα τεκταινόμενα εντός της Συνόδου μας ανέφερε ότι, κατά την τελευταία ΔΙΣ, η οποία αποφάσισε το «προνόμιο» του Οικουμενικού Πατριάρχου και το «δικαίωμα» του Αρχιεπισκόπου, δόθηκε το «κοινό πόρισμα» των δύο Συνοδικών Επιτροπών στους αρχιερείς απλά για να το παρατηρήσουν «φωτογραφικά» και όχι για να το μελετήσουν και μάλιστα με ταχύτητα αποσύρθηκε αμέσως από τη συνεδρίαση.
This becomes clear also from the analytical highlights provided by His Eminence Serapheim of Kythera, who in his well targeted descriptions of what happened in the Synod brought to our attention that, according to the last Synod, which decided on the “privilege” of the Ecumenical Patriarch and the “right” of the Archbishop, the “common findings” of the two Synodical Committees was given to the hierarchs simply for them to see them “photographically” (tr. note: in other words, superficially) and not for them to study them and in fact they were withdrawn swiftly and immediately from the meeting.
Δεν ξέρω εάν καταλαβαίνετε το τέχνασμα. Κλήθηκαν οι Αρχιερείς για να αποφασίσουν για ένα θέμα που διχάζει την ολόκληρη την Ορθοδοξία και δεν μπόρεσαν να μελετήσουν το πόρισμα των αρμοδίων επιτροπών στις οποίες οι ίδιοι είχαν αναθέσει το έργο να εισηγηθούν. [Par.] Αλήθεια ποιος φαεινός εκκλησιαστικός νους μηχανεύτηκε κάτι τέτοιο.
I do not know if you understand the trick [or, subterfuge or “slight of hand”]. The Hierarchs met in order to make a decision concerning an issue which is dividing all of Orthodoxy and they were not able to study the findings of the pertinent committees to which the same had referred the matter. [Par.] Truly, what brilliant ecclesiastical mind engineered this.
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Minor point of correction, but the other heads of the churches are not commemorated at great vespers. So, we’ll have to wait until Sunday liturgy.
John Donne is wrong. To be fair to the man, though, he never met me.
All schisms start with a little fissure:
https://orthochristian.com/124786.html
The Church of Greece is in great danger. Since the Tomos of 1850 which recognised the autocephaly ( restricted) of Original Kingdom Church that basically was cyclades islands and Peleponisus and Atica/ boetia area, as Greece grew to current size there has existed a in -between state of the new lands, so called, being under Athens, but also Constantinople and it having the power.
During cold war etc it was left as a working reality one might say.
However Bartholomaios in late 1990s was already calling in his IOUs, with the then head of Greek church,Christodoulos, a powerful Figure, fighting back. Strange that from that moment scandal eveloped him as well as illness and in 2008, still a not elderly man, death.
Does Ieronimos have rhe conjones to stand up? Would seem NO. Possibly Seraphim of Piraeus who seems a different Figure. One can but hope but crisis time for Church H of Greece. Quo Vadis?
The coward and schismatic Ieronymos, has just commemorated the false hierarch Dumenko. Let the fireworks begin. Now Bartholomew will travel to Athos and continue his dissection of the Holy Mountain.
The Balkanization of the Church. And the Phanariot fanboys consider it just rewards to balkanize the Church as vengeance for Russia not showing up to the Pan-Orthodox D.L. to show case “unity” at the Crete council. Do we still remember that??? All that talk about Orthodox unity and the lamenting that Russia and Antioch was not there to showcase that unity??? So the EP as revenge decides to do the exact opposite to what he was preaching.
Between the US and Russia:
http://www.ekathimerini.com/245614/opinion/ekathimerini/comment/between-the-us-and-russia
That is an interesting analysis. And yet another reason to support Trump: he is a Euroskeptic and as long as he’s president, then we can see a continued weakening of EU/US ties. That Russia will fill the gap is immaterial to me.
Interestingly, the allegedly “warm reception” that the EP “received” on Mt Athos was not all that warm.
https://orthochristian.com/124892.html
And it looks like the CoG saga (whether they recognized Dumenko’s sect) is not quite over yet.
More to follow on that one.
https://orthochristian.com/124892.html
If you ever wondered what the word “prelest” means:
https://orthochristian.com/124895.html