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I was having a conversation with George for the umpteenth time about how he wished he could go to war for Russia.
Russia, of course, is the county which houses our home, the Church.
Our home was pushed into this war by the West through Bartholomew, without whom none of this would have happened.
Separating the Church in Ukraine made Ukraine weaker and more vulnerable to the increasingly nationalistic powers who were growing in number with the aim to dismantle Ukraine on behalf of the West.
It wasn’t as if it was a secret. If that were true we wouldn’t have been able to write about it as far back as 2018. We knew what was brewing and it broke our hearts.
Ukraine dates back to the earliest centuries of the history of Christianity, to the Apostolic Age, with mission trips along the Black Sea and a legend of Saint Andrew that ascends the hills of Kyiv.
She was a jewel of the Church. These Nazi, satanists, have peppered her landscape with bioweapon plants that are making pathogens to target the Slavs, an East Slavic ethnic group native to Ukraine!
That’s how much they love Ukraine.
Installed mercenaries, with a penchant for blood, have joined the fledging Fourth Reich, to infiltrate the Church through a mechanism Bartholomew carved out for them to launch their destruction.
Ukraine was to be a proxy for war with Russia. Why did they wipe out the country, her resources and her people? So much easier for them to get at Russia with no one to get in the way.
These nationalists bind the arms of their countrymen with white linin, so they can identify who to torture before throwing them into ditches, serving as unmarked graves, to blame the Russians.
Seeing the Ukrainian people come out in groves to turn their backs on Bartholomew, as his unholy robes touched their blood-soaked ground, should tell you who Ukraine believes is on their side. It’s not Bartholomew. God hating people have reduced that once quaint little country with their beautiful monasteries and cathedrals into a killing field.
I can’t even say the West hates Ukraine because they don’t care enough about it to hate it. The West was actually making money off of the plight of Ukrainian people through that FXT bitcoin fiasco. Imagine the audacity of laundering money out of a war torn country you turned into a toilet.
It’s official, however. Ukraine is now the #$%^hole of the West. And when the West packs up and leaves, who do you think is going to be there to clean up this mess?
Russia’s going to be there with a heavy heart and shovel in hand.
But we’ll be there, too, on the other side of the ocean. We’ll be there holding the people who raped Ukraine accountable. We’ll have those tribunals ready to go and we will confiscate all their resources so we can use their money to help you rebuild.
The whole world will know the American people hate what our powers did to destroy your country. They will not be free and the hoodlums and mercenaries with the grandiose idea that your country belonged to them, will be no more. The oligarchs won’t live another day to wheel and deal with your resources. And with God’s help, your Church will be made whole again.
I’m glad George is not a younger man in Russia and I’m glad we weren’t at the Capitol on January 6, because he’d be one of those men I wouldn’t be able to hold back.
I reminded him he fights on the front lines of this blog every day and say, “It’s always the people who have never been in a war that want to be in one.”
Just as I said that, I looked down and the following poem appeared before me. I cried as I read it to George. I was wrong. Some men fight with their whole hearts, their whole lives, for the country they love. Old men should fight. They know what’s at stake and are willing to die for it.
* * *
This comes from soul of a Russian man. It doesn’t rhyme in English but it does rhyme with our hearts. This is our Holy War.
Call me to war
Instead of a guy who is twenty.
I served, I can, I understand
How to fight for the Motherland.
Let me die, let him live
Let the girl hug him at dawn.
Let his mother not come back
For a black coffin with a bitter epitaph.
Call me. They don’t take me.
Too old, and too sick.
It’s a pity, only nerves, like a tourniquet,
Stretched for truth, for faith.
Call me, I’m the grandson
The grandson of a soldier who died in battle,
That did not let go of the banner
And he fell like a hero once.
Call me, an old man
I am wiser and more cunning, I am “experienced”.
I can still raise a hand
With a gun for Rus’, for the State.
Call me, I can save
Someone’s life that is holy and radiant.
Just before I lay down dead
I’ll blow myself up and the Nazis
Those who cherish the swastika and the cross,
Who forgot about Berlin at 45 m.
Those who holiness trampled on their former places,
Where the war swept once.
The war that is called the Great
That war, where my grandfather lay down with bones.
Call me. They don’t take me.
So, I will fight with verses.
04/09/2022. A. Olenichev
Well, that’s a full dose, Galinushka. You go girl!
Here’s an interesting article that touches on this very subject:
“Orthodox shahidism” and neo-pagan theology of war of the Moscow Patriarch Kirill, by Dr. Serhii V. Shumylo
https://afon.org.ua/publikatsii/pravoslavnyj-shakhidizm-i-neoyazycheskaya-teologiya-vojny-moskovskogo-patriarkha-kirilla.html
Of particular notice in this article is how the Moscow Patriarchate has increasingly aligned itself with Islam in this present “military operation” in Ukraine.
In case anyone thinks this is new, you’ll be disappointed. This is about Patriarch Kirill preaching the Gospel again. How dare he tell frightened young men about to go into battle that they should not be afraid of death! I mean the audacity of him telling them that their death will be honored by God because Scripture says so: John 15:13 says, “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” (Snark off)
And they’re not just laying down their lives to protect their own country from the evil that has infected Ukraine. They’re putting their lives on the line to protect us from the evil that has infected Ukraine. All of us.
Where were you when the Ukrainians were being threatened by the nationalists? Where do you think these ultra-nationalist patriots, neo-Nazi radicals came from? Didn’t you see them turn against their own people? Weren’t you listening when the Ukrainians expressed their frustration over rigged elections and their inability to change the system? Activists twice overruled voters whom they suggested didn’t “deserve the franchise” because they were pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian. In desperation to thwart Poroshenko (the evil friend of your buddy), they fell into a trap and elected Zelensky. A comedian! Who knew he was a puppet of the deep state?
Ukraine became a nation rife with corruption. And this isn’t the Ukrainians I’m talking about. I’m talking about the evil forces that infiltrated their country, one of whom was us, a country rife with the same corrupting influences that we are also in a desperate war to defeat.
The “Ukrainians” are no more what they’ve become than we are what we’ve become. That isn’t Ukraine and this isn’t the America that reflects the will of the American people.
Before Russia invaded, Ukraine had already been overcome by forces far more subversive than anyone could imagine. What happened in Ukraine had all the earmarks of how the Soviet Union infiltrated Russia. I can see why alarm bells were going off for the Russians. You don’t forget something like that. They could see how the separatists were tortured and killed for just speaking Russian! How the Minsk’s agreement was trampled upon and ignored. The number of aggressors kept growing and growing and bioweapons financed by the Pentagon were not only popping up all over the landscape they were infecting birds with pathogens and dumping them out of airplanes over Russia!!!
How long were the Russians supposed to stand down with these alarming developments?
After overthrowing the centuries-old Romanov monarchy, Russia emerged from a civil war in 1921 as the newly formed Soviet Union. The world’s first Marxist-Communist state would become one of the biggest and most powerful nations in the world, occupying nearly one-sixth of Earth’s land surface, before its fall and ultimate dissolution in 1991. Do the rest of us want to relive the cold war experiment with an enemy like that again? Sorry, but some of us remember how quickly a situation like this can deteriorate into a nightmare. We don’t want the forces in Ukraine to spread into Russia or anywhere else because when they do, no one is safe.
The globalist are using this situation to usher in the Great Reset. You know that, right? Let Ukraine get out of control and attack a world power like Russia and all hell will break loose. When it does, they’ll sneak in with their agenda and we won’t see it coming. Just like no one saw what was happening in Ukraine. The Ukrainians did but no one would listen to them. Certainly not Bartholomew. Not only did he not listen, he did the unthinkable. He took their Church away from them and gave it to people whom I’m guessing don’t spend a lot of time in Church. They’re all about liquidating properties now. Didn’t you see the headlines? “The OCU, led by Epifaniy Dumenko, called on the central and local authorities to effectively liquidate the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.” https://spzh.news/en/news/88433-pcu-prizvala-vlasti-zapretity-ukrainskuju-pravoslavnuju-cerkovy
Is that what Bartholomew wanted all along? Well, there are two possibilities: (1) He was too stupid to see this coming or (2) this is exactly what he wanted. He didn’t care about the Ukrainian people. He doesn’t even care about the Church. Who goes into a country to decimate the Church?
I wouldn’t worry about what Dr. Serhii V. Shumylo thinks. As far as I know, he’s not on the Church’s recommended reading list.
My dear, this response is almost as eloquent as your original posting.
To all: I just received an email about Irving Berlin and his patriotic compositions, especially “God Bless America.”
I intend to write about this. For now, all I can say is how far we as a country have fallen. I fear that our elites need for us to hate Russia so that we can forget how degraded and anti-Christian we have become.
Dr. Serhii V. Shumylo (sometimes spelled in English as Sergei Shumilo) is nonetheless, an author on Orthochristian.com, with several published articles:
https://orthochristian.com/112175.html
As an ecclesiastical scholar, his work is widely respected. As an example, he co-organized the widely-attended forum (attended by Metropolitan Onuphry) at the Kiev Pechersk Lavra in 2016 on 1000 years of Russian monasticism on Mount Athos:
https://afon.org.ua/novosti/afonskij-forum-otkrylsya-v-kievo-pecherskoj-lavre-obnovleno-foto.html
His work is also published on the rocorstudies.org website:
https://www.rocorstudies.org/2022/02/02/9405/
He is Ukrainian, and his Facebook page says he lives in Kiev.
Well, if his Facebook page says he lives in Kiev then I guess we’d better run right out and buy whatever he’s selling!
You know who else lives in Kiev? The Chocolate King.
In fact Kiev is the home of the palaces of many of Ukraine’s oligarchs.
A short drive from Kyiv stand the twin palaces of two Yanukovych-era executives at Ukraine’s state energy company Naftohaz. Police have been investigating allegations of fraud at the company worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The two oligarchs, who have not explained the origin of their families’ spectacular wealth, are now running for Parliament – and with it, the prize of immunity from prosecution. (A special report by Natalie Sedletska of RFE/RL’s Ukrainian Service)
For some wonderful footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asuie5I5xSY
Joseph,
I must say that, although he doesn’t expressly say it, he makes a very convincing case for the utter foolishness of Bartholomew’s granting of the tomos to these obviously sectarian, Ukro-centered nationalists.
https://orthochristian.com/120077.html
This foolhardiness is already understood in principal by most readers here, but the information in this article sheds a great deal of additional and rather disturbing light on the subject. It reveals in stark and undeniable terms the sheer falsehood of Bartholomew’s argument that, “They are Orthodox. Why shouldn’t they have their own church?”
I wonder, was this ever decisively dealt with?
Brian, from Dr. Serhii Shumylo’s previous articles, it’s obvious that he stands with Metropolitan Onuphry. He likely still does. Dr. Serhii’s more recent articles, however, are quite startling in tone, and show a complete exasperation with Patriarch Kirill’s support of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Indeed, this exasperation is probably felt by many in Metropolitan Onuphry’s flock. It’s apparent that the Patriarch’s recent comments are a great insult to them. They are Orthodox Christians after all. So why should they, for all practical purposes, be given the status of “infidel” and be made the object of “jihad?”
RE: “. . . and show a complete exasperation with Patriarch Kirill’s support of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.”
If you can find even one thing Kirill has said that he supports “the invasion of Ukraine,” you may post it here. But if you can’t, don’t bring it up because I won’t print it.
I’ve got a better question, since the EP created an autocephalous church in the Ukraine, and he views it as a stavropeghial institution, then why doesn’t he say something –anything–about what’s going on there?
Why doesn’t he condemn the atrocities perpetrated by the Azovs?
Just wondering.
Joseph,
First, I am an American. Thus I live in a country that, because of the ‘values’ it sadly promotes in the world, is a subject of Pat. KYRILL’s many comments. Yet I in no way see myself as the subject of his comments because I am aware that he is speaking of a Satanic, corrosive ethos that is destructive to faith, culture, and humanity in general. He is not speaking of political, national, or ethnic groups. To think that he is attacking me or Ukrainians as such is a fallacy and a misrepresentation.
Second, this war and any war is terrible. No one who comments here ought ever forget this, regardless of their views. The ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ suffer together in war. The exasperation of its victims, both intended and unintended, is more than understandable. Real people are suffering and dying on all sides. And lest anyone forget, we are commanded to pray for peace.
But exasperation is not scholarship.
Brian, I think there’s a big difference here. Russia is not bombing America, but it is bombing Ukraine. Perhaps any criticism that Patriarch Kirill has about America and the West is even justified, … but Ukraine… ? Ukraine is a highly conservative country, a country where at least 67% of the populace identifies as Orthodox Christians.
The national security interests of the Russian Federation are certainly understandable, and the given response we see to NATO threats is even predictable. What comes across as problematic, especially now, is the idea that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine together constitute “Holy Russia”. Perhaps that idea may have worked on some level before Russian troops invaded Ukraine this past year, but what we are witnessing now, at least from the point of view of Metropolitan Onuphry, is an Unholy Russia. According to him, it is a Russia guilty of the “sin of Cain”:
https://spzh.news/en/zashhita-very/88101-cerkovy-vtyagivajut-vo-vnutrennije-razborki-silovikov
I think we’re done believing the “party line.” Ukraine was invaded before Russia. Now, they’re liquidating the Church. Who are these people, Joseph? Who let these people into Ukraine?
Russia’s the only one who can get them out.
“the idea that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine together constitute “Holy Russia”. Perhaps that idea may have worked on some level before Russian troops invaded Ukraine”
You cannot measure what the Ukrainians really think. If someone expresses pro-Russian views, or even tries to defend his native language ends up quite badly. See May 2nd 2014, in Odessa.
Ask yourself, does the population of the territories occupied by Russia in present military operation, want to be under Kiev or under Moscow?
Martin, sure, the territories recently annexed by Russia are predominantly populated by people who want to be part of Russia. The eventual annexation of those territories was the expected outcome from the civil war in Ukraine that has been going on since 2014. Also, the bishops in those territories, who used to be part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, are now I believe part of the ROC, and that’s understandable.
Yet none of this suggests a “One Holy Russia”. Only through a horribly destructive war and human decimation will it even be possible for Russia to conquer and “unite” with the rest of Ukraine, and then Ukraine will cease to exist as an independent state. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphry would also cease to exist. There’s nothing “Holy” about any of this.
It’s interesting how the “go to” position of everyone connected to the Ecumenical Patriarchate is to disparage the Holy Church of Russia.
To hate the Russian Orthodox Church, to paint her in such a negative light in every possible circumstance, is to hate the 110M (95 million in Russia, total of 15 million in the linked autonomous Churches) Orthodox Christians attached to her, many of whom are in Ukraine.
The Russian Orthodox Church didn’t start this war which is what you would have us believe. Forgetting of course, that it was Bartholomew who served and continues to serve the interests of the Nazis nationalists, Poroshenko, Rada, and Biden (whom he calls a “man of faith, and man of vision”).
Biden, alone, has contributed an obscene amount of money to keep the killing going. Then, of course, there is the Pentagon and their biolabs. Look at the following White House press release. You’d think the war in Ukraine was our war. Oh wait, silly me. It is.
President Biden today announced an additional $800 million in security assistance to Ukraine, bringing the total U.S. security assistance committed to Ukraine to $1 billion in just the past week, and a total of $2 billion since the start of the Biden Administration. The assistance will take the form of direct transfers of equipment from the Department of Defense to the Ukrainian military to help them defend their country against Russia’s unprovoked and unjustified invasion.
The new $800 million assistance package includes:
800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
2,000 Javelin, 1,000 light anti-armor weapons, and 6,000 AT-4 anti-armor systems;
100 Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;
100 grenade launchers, 5,000 rifles, 1,000 pistols, 400 machine guns, and 400 shotguns;
Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition and grenade launcher and mortar rounds;
25,000 sets of body armor; and
25,000 helmets.
In addition to the weapons listed above, previous United States assistance committed to Ukraine includes:
Over 600 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;
Approximately 2,600 Javelin anti-armor systems;
Five Mi-17 helicopters;
Three patrol boats;
Four counter-artillery and counter-unmanned aerial system tracking radars;
Four counter-mortar radar systems;
200 grenade launchers and ammunition;
200 shotguns and 200 machine guns;
Nearly 40 million rounds of small arms ammunition and over 1 million grenade, mortar, and artillery rounds;
70 High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles (HMMWVs) and other vehicles;
Secure communications, electronic warfare detection systems, body armor, helmets, and other tactical gear;
Military medical equipment to support treatment and combat evacuation;
Explosive ordnance disposal and demining equipment; and
Satellite imagery and analysis capability.
In addition to the U.S.-produced short-range air defense systems the Ukrainians have been using to great effect, the United States has also identified and is helping the Ukrainians acquire additional, longer-range systems on which Ukraine’s forces are already trained, as well as additional munitions for those systems.
The United States continues to expedite the authorization and facilitation of additional assistance to Ukraine from our Allies. At least 30 countries have provided security assistance to Ukraine since the Russian invasion began. In 2022, the Department of State authorized third-party transfers of defensive equipment from more than 14 countries, a number that continues to grow as Allies and Partners increase support to Ukraine.
Lest we forget, Joseph…
For eight years peace was on offer
to Ukraine with the Minsk Accords;
which peace would have kept the Donbass in Ukraine.
The terms were not enforced by Kiev and the West;
who have admitted to using them to trick Russia,
so as to gain time to arm Ukraine for further war.
So the blood being spilled now is on their hands
and on the hands of their supporters; which supporters
do seem to include some of the chief Phanariots.
Brendan, nations will always rise against other nations, and political parties will always rise against other political parties. It’s a given. Yet how does the Orthodox Church respond in these situations, and is that response truly Christian?
Historically, Ukraine has endured a near-constant tug-of-war between its bordering nations, and of course that still continues today. Schismatic “Orthodox” groups in Ukraine, such as the UGCC, the UAOC, and the UOC-KP, are often a testimony of a national resistance to that historical tug-of-war.
In light of this, it doesn’t really help matters to argue that Ukraine should be under the Vatican, or Moscow, or Constantinople. That just contributes to the historical tug-of-war and brings about further schisms. Rather, I believe what makes the most Christian sense is for Ukraine to be spiritually united under its own Patriarchate. I think Metropolitan Onuphry’s flock is now generally moving in that direction also, having separated itself from Moscow.
Gee, Joseph, are you saying the UOC is not in communion with the Russian Church? Because that is not the case so maybe you should stop saying the UOC has “separated itself from Moscow.”
In the Church, separating means to fall out of communion.
There are actually benefits to the Russian Church if the UOC declares their autocephaly, assuming they remain in communion, which they are and will.
I don’t agree with Epiphany on how he is characterizing the situation, but even he acknowledges a deeper story. If the UOC stays connected to an “aggressor,” which rightly or wrongly is attributed to Russia, the UOC will be forced to change their name to ROC and they’ll loose their property.
https://df.news/en/2022/06/13/epifaniy-it-s-an-imitation-despite-claims-of-separation-uoc-mp-remains-part-of-roc/
It’s also a way of taking care of the Faithful abroad under Onufriy. The EP will not be able to interfere.
In addition, if the UOC becomes autocephalous, it means Ukraine belongs to Onufriy. The EP cannot make advances in a country (like joining the Catholic church to the Orthodox Church, for example) that has an autocephalous Church. It will come down to which autocephalous Church the greater Church recognizes and it’s not going to be Epiphany’s.
Or so it would seem to me.
They’re being smart about this because they’re even putting a carrot out there to the OCU that they may recognize the canonicity of their hierarchy by restoring the apostolic succession of its bishops. The EP hasn’t been able to do that for them in spite of its best efforts. But maybe the UOC can if they unite.
Read the Resolutions of the Council of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of May 27, 2022: https://news.church.ua/2022/05/28/resolutions-council-ukrainian-orthodox-church-may-27-2022/?lang=en
Russia and the Russian Church are taking a lot of hits for greater good of the Church (for the world). We owe them a debt of gratitude whether you see it or not. They’ve rid Ukraine of the filth that infected them and now it looks like the Russian Church is considering giving Ukraine a chance to be whole again (minus the Nazis, the blood thirsty nationalists, the greedy oligarchs, the satanists, the sex traffickers, the crooked politicians, the EP, the United States, the money launderers, NATO and the globalists at large).
Joseph, Russia tried to negotiate peace,
but Ukraine shelled the Donbass continuously
(egged on by the USA, UK, NATO and EU);
and the Phanar is not on the side of the angels,
having helped to grow the conditions for war.
From the media wing that supports Metropolitan Onuphry:
“Primate: UOC announced its complete separation from the Moscow Patriarchate”
https://spzh.news/en/news/70112-primate-uoc-announced-its-complete-separation-from-the-moscow-patriarchate
Brian, since I’m not able to add/edit my previous comment, and to attempt to answer your question, Dr. Serhii readily points out that there is “no longer continuity in the ordinations from the self-consecrated Lipkovsky hierarchy”. His concern in his article is more about the “spiritual-ideological” heritage of the Lipkovsky-ites. I wonder if he still feels quite the same way though.
Vasily Lipkovsky was certainly a problematic figure in many ways canonically, but he was also a courageous man who faced insurmountable circumstances. May his sins be forgiven. He essentially stopped being an active “bishop” in 1927 when he was arrested, and then his “church” was disbanded in 1930 and incorporated into the Moscow Patriarchate. In 1937, Vasily Lipkovsky was executed by the Soviets.
Joseph,
I wasn’t asking if the man, Lipkovsy, was ever dealt with. I was asking if the ideology – the veneration, the ‘sainthood,’ etc. – that his person represents amongst what was the “Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine” and the so-called ‘Kievian Patriarchate’ was ever decisively dealt with or even addressed prior to and/or since the tomos was granted.
The problem, Joseph, is not that Mr Shumylo is a propagandist (he isn’t). As an academic, he burrows into the minutiae of an issue and in so doing, shows how the incident/event is not as clear-cut as the historical narrative often makes it to be.
Unfortunately, history works that way: narratives congeal over time and become hardened. The American Civil War for example: it wasn’t about slavery, one only has to read the letters and newspapers of the time to realize that slavery was a burning issue but as far as the Federal govt was concerned, there were serious economic reasons why Lincoln felt the Union needed to be preserved (at all costs if I might say: he even made a guarantee in a proposed 13th Amendment in 1861 to preserve slavery in the South if that’s what it took to keep the South from seceding.)
St Lawrence’s prophecies I believe to be authentic. They not only ring true about a possible future but ring true about the past, how the Poles and their agents exploited the Ukraine for their own dark purposes. In stunning detail I might add.
So far as I know, nobody has come forward who knew St Lawrence to debunk them. Shumylo, like many revisionists, only casts doubt on their veracity. As far as I know, Shumylo didn’t know the late saint. (Nor did he interview any of Lawrence’s contemporaries.)
If I may add, given what we know about the scandalous (pre-Bartholomewite by the way) origins of the sect headed by Mr Dumenko, it is clear to me that St Lawrence’s prophecy was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
As a general rule, we must be very careful trodding down the path of pure academicism and/or revisionism when it comes to the saints. In my reading of pre-Revolutionary history, there were many in the Church who disdained the growing cult of St Seraphim of Sarov. (I personally remember that Nov 9 –St Nektarios Day–was only a black letter day on the GOA’s annual calendar and that Nektarios was horribly persecuted by the ecclesiastics of his day. Today, it is a major feast day and his icon adorns the icon-screen of every Athonite monastery here in America.) It was only the fervent insistence of Nicholas II (who is likewise a saint) that his canonization was allowed to proceed.
In fact, if memory serves, Nicholas pursued a policy of wide-scale canonization for more saints than every other emperor. I believe this was due to the agency of the Holy Spirit, who inspired Nicholas to do so, knowing that the Russian people would need the intercession of these people in the coming years ahead.
I meant to say that St Nicholas II drove the canonization process of St Seraphim of Sarov. Not the canonization process of St Nektarios of Aegina.
Galinushka,
I prefer to counter such drivel head on. God, in the Old Testament witness, personally ordered genocidal extermination under certain circumstances. We cannot deny this because it is manifestly true in scripture. Liberals are correct when they say God ordered mass homicide. He most certainly did, under the right conditions. And it was a far harsher form of warfare than jihad.
And this is not to be isolated to antiquity. Same circumstances, same morality applies. God ordered it because it was positively good – objectively the right thing to do. Many Christians dance around this truth and indirectly deny it with equivocation. They should not. Christianity itself stands or falls on this truth in more than one way.
First, if there is a God 1.0 and a God 2.0, then Christianity is itself untenable. For such a contention is absurd and logically incoherent. Nor does it prevent any modernist or liberal for proclaiming a God 3.0.
Second, frankly, Christians are in need of room to fight “holy war” against their adversaries (snowflakes need not apply). To be sure, the war is primarily spiritual and has a spiritual focus. But the need for violence remains under many circumstances and especially those comparable to Israel’s existential plight in the Old Testament and Christians should have no hesitation in invoking it. Frankly, it will likely become necessary to apply it against the Muslims. And, de facto and informally, it has been applied by the Russians in Chechnya and the Serbs in the Balkans.
Christ’s admonitions that seem to exhort non-violence across the board which appear in the New Testament must be viewed in context. The Judeans were engaged in a futile struggle with Rome whose power was overwhelming. Thus the Zealot party periodically waged active war against the Roman occupation, often resulting in large Judean body counts. This struggle was ultimately doomed to failure and resulted in the destruction of the Second Temple.
Christ was not countermanding or setting aside the Old Testament witness regarding violence in any way. He came not to abolish the Law but to complete it. He was applying Old Testament wisdom to the circumstances in which He found His people:
“If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat;
And if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head,
And the Lord shall reward thee.” – Proverbs 25:21-22, St. Paul echoes this in Romans 12:20
Christ offered an alternative sword with which to counter the Romans. Kill them with kindness and await deliverance. Or, as Sun-tsu wrote: If a battle cannot be won, don’t fight it.
God’s morality is consistent over the Testaments and throughout Christian history. But it is not for snowflakes and cherries. It is up close and personal (as the couple in Acts caught hiding land from the Church found out to their premature demise). God put you in this world and He won’t hesitate to take you out.
The word “anathema” has an interesting history. In the Septuagint, it often refers to “herem”, the ban, the sometimes genocidal war that God ordered against this or that errant tribe in the OT. It also had other meanings in the Septuagint. In the New Testament, and in subsequent Christian history, its primary meaning has been placing the recipient under a curse and so it means, approximately, “accursed”.
Now, obviously, when Israel was sovereign, it had the power to wipe out certain types of sworn, existential enemies under this curse and proceeded to do so under orders from the Almighty. In the time of Christ’s earthly life, the Judeans had no such power. They were not even allowed to execute for capital offences. But that is a function of context, not principle. And so “anathema” came to be synonymous with “cursed ostracism”.
The phenomenon of a War of Anathema has never been abolished and, in fact, when Christ returns, He himself will wage such a war against His enemies as we can see from St. John’s witness in the Apocalypse, chapter 19:11-18.
Now, none of this means that fighting in such a holy war entitles one to a place in paradise. However, to the bishops is given the power to bind and loose and what they decide will be honored in heaven (Matthew 16:19).
The Muslims probably inherited the idea of holy war, jihad, from Christians and Jews; specifically, from the Old Testament witness in the lives of Moses, Joshua and David where it is clearly expressed. This is also where they inherited their postures for prayer, the notion of praying in a certain direction, their concept of a holy law (Torah and canon law), avoidance of pork, rejection of idolatry, and countless other features. They stole liberally from the “People of the Book”. But, just as we should not have women going uncovered in church simply because Muslims insist they be covered in public, nor should we reject the concept of holy war just because Muslims adopted a rather watered-down form of it.
Also, Christians need not fight any particular war as a “war of the black flag” (as our Confederate ancestors would refer to it). It is merely a facet of Christian liberty to be applied with prudence and restraint by Christian authorities. If facing a true existential threat, we have leave to eliminate it. But lesser threats should be dealt with less severely.
Just as a pre-emptive note, it is impossible for the counterargument not to reduce to a moral indictment of God as He is revealed in the Old Testament.
I might be wrong and I don’t profess to be a biblical “expert”, but weren’t some of those tribes that were wiped out in the OT practicing child sacrifice among other abominations? If they were…good riddance.
Deacon,
I don’t doubt that they were. But God did not send the Israelites on a world tour to wipe out evil. He sent them to wipe out evil tribes (evil in various ways) who attempted to wipe out His people.
Deacon John,
You are correct.
It is mentioned quite a few times in the law of Moses, usually in the context of “Ye shall not do as those inhabitants of the land, for they…”
But perhaps the most direct and thorough treatment is found in the book of Wisdom:
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Wisdom-of-Solomon-Chapter-12/
I am about as far from a ‘snowflake’ as one can get, and though I do concur with Misha’s overall point, especially the one expressed by his final paragraph above, I cannot recall any instance in Christian history wherein the Lord commanded us to do what he commanded the Israelites to do – not from the lips of Christ, nor from those of his Apostles.
Thus, if I ever do hear someone say, “Thus saith the Lord, annihilate your enemies,” I will wait until I see the Lord sending swarms of hornets upon these enemies before I give it any credence. I will also remember that latter portion of this passage from the book of Wisdom as well as the first.
Great points, Gail! (Bravo!)
Seriously Joseph? What has Kirill said that is not consonant with the Gospel? Did Jesus not tell His disciples that He would “send them as sheep among wolves”? That is not a pretty picture. Jesus not only accepted war but counselled prudence when considering it.
War is not evil if it is done in defense of faith and fatherland. Even an offensive war, one done as a spoiling attack against a potential aggressor is justified. Being a puppet of the EU/NATO, the Ukraine had all the hallmarks of a potential aggressor. As far as I’m concerned, the fact that the West had set up no less than 38 biowarfare labs on its territory was more than enough justification for the RF to conduct its SMO.
On a spiritual level, now that the Ukraine is beholden to the anti-Christian West, what with its neo-pagan rituals (as shown in several videos), then Patriarch Kirill is rightly concerned with the spiritual welfare of his people.
As an Hellene, I am saddened that this is not the case with the churches belonging and/or allied with the EP.
I have intended for awhile now to write about the pre-Christian phronema of the pagans, how they anticipated Christ and were imbued with a Christian-like spirituality which imbued their lives. A first example would be St Paul preaching to the Athenians on Mars Hill about their “unknown god.” The second example would be of Norse culture as exemplified in The Norseman.
Long story short: the neo-paganism of the Third Reich and the Perun cult of the Azov battalian has no truck with Christianity and no future synthesis can arise from them as they are deviations from Christianity and not anticipations of them.
George, If you study the history of missions you will encounter many stories of missionaries encountering tribes and groups of people, whom God had been prepping to hear the Gospel.
The Alaskan Natives are one such people
Agreed. That’s one difference between pre-Christian paganism and post-Christian paganism. Like the kind we’re seeing in the Ukraine with its Perun cult.
“Long story short: the neo-paganism of the Third Reich and the Perun cult of the Azov battalian has no truck with Christianity”
I recommend The Occult Roots of Nazism by Goodrick-Clarke. BTW, the cult of swastika was introduced by Lanz von Liebenfels who was an Austrian, years before Nazism appeared.
People like Dr. Shumylo need to stop pretending that this is about Russia conquering Ukraine. It isn’t and never has been. Russia (including Patriach Kyrill) was perfectly content to have a free, neutral, politically independent Ukraine coexisting peacefully with Russia and the ethnic Russians within its borders, as it was from 1991 through approximately 2014.
To pretend otherwise is simply disingenuous, and in this case religious, propaganda.
Thank you, Gail! Beautifully written.
Here is a very interesting and enlightening discussion between Matt Ehret and Vanessa Beeley about the situation in the Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlSBzreRYR4
Thank you.
I read Matt Ehret. Thanks for posting.
As a Russian I can say that back during the 20th century, those of us who left Russia because we lost in the civil war against the Reds knew what we had to do: we had to create our own free alt.Russia.
In those days Europe was actually Christian, not post-Christian. We were shown a lot of understanding and sympathy because the people around us shared our values and thus they were sympathetic to our plight.
We also had people from the European and American left who viewed us with derision, feeling we were a rat line of wealthy bourgeois escaping from revolutionary justice. We were a witness to the fact that the ‘workers revolution’ they tried to bring about in their own countries was a failure. The Soviet secret services tried various methods of intimidating our communities, from diplomatic pressure to direct infiltration (operation Trest, the Inner Line) and terrorism (kidnapping of generals Kutepov, Miller, Dr. Alexander Trushnovich). But we prevailed.
Fast forward to today, and Russia has officially parted ways with communism as a state ideology and geopolitical strategy. Russia’s centrist government not only allows the Orthodox Church to exist but legislatively supports Orthodox and traditional Abrahamic morals, the same morals that are being attacked in western societies all the time. You can walk into a grocery store in Russia and see sandwiches labelled #BLM: Bread Lives Matter. You don’t seen rainbow flags and pride parades. There is no ‘wokeness’, and even the Russian left’s old school brand of internationalism has socially conservative underpinnings.
Sure, the statues of Lenin and toponyms bearing the names of communist politicians continue to remain an eyesore, and will continue to until the older generations that need those symbols to feel happy about their youth will go away. But to make a moral equivalency between today’s post-Soviet Russian government and the militantly atheist centripetal Soviet government is only for those who don’t understand the reality on the ground, or as is more often the case, those who need it for propaganda purposes. Just as it is a mistake to compare the west of even the progressive likes of FDR and JFK to Obama and Biden, and to commit the sacrilege of comparing Solzhenitsin and Sakharov to Navalniy and the ‘transformed man’ Khodarkovsky.
It appears the Iron Curtain has never truly disappeared, but is now changing sides. As a result, most Orthodox Christians outside of Russia now find themselves in a world where they are likely to be persecuted. Even in Orthodox Greece – which successfully defeated communism – is now witnessing an onslaught of wokeism, while her Church is pressured to not rock the European boat and urged to join in the globalist crusade against Russia.
It’s time to start alt.Greece, alt.Cyprus, alt.Bulgaria, alt.AmericanOrthodoxy etc. because it’s getting to the point where the people need unity in the face of an encroaching enemy. In Russia, there was a revolution in 1917 by a force that was very maximalist and aggressive in action. That drew the lines rather quickly. Whereas in the western world, Orthodox Christians are more in the position of the frog that is about to be boiled. It’s easy to ignore what’s going on around you, until it’s too late.
I’m afraid it’s already too late. That’s not to say that it’s over because it’s far from over. This is the hill many of us are ready to die on and we’re still here.
In Cyprus, there are a total of six districts. Two of them are partly occupied by Turkey while one, Kyrenia, is wholly occupied. Kyrenia has representation in the Cypriot government and even has a bishop attached to it. This despite the fact that almost no Greeks live there. There are a few hundred Greeks who live in the occupied part of Famagusta district as a community. The Cypriot government tries to support them, but when they send history textbooks to the schools the Turks censor them, tearing out any offensive pages. All of this is going on in the 21st century, in Europe.
My point being that if things get very bad (and I think they already are), you need free oases to act as a public face for those communities who are being persecuted. The Cypriots don’t give up on their countrymen who are in occupied lands, and they still root for their liberation from the occupiers.
The one hope I have is that there will be a “Balkanization” of America. It’s a pejorative term, but separation can be the best way to prevent bloodshed. But that will still leave many Orthodox people in blue states behind enemy lines. Having the free oasis communities here is critical for providing them with a lifeline.
George,
Thank you so much for your testimony and thoughts. You’re absolutely correct.
Here in Texas, we need a Texit! fairly quickly so we can go our own way and flourish away from the wokism that’s captured and infected the East and Left coasts. Other states are welcome to join us. Orthodoxy is ripe to grow here, as it has been doing for decades.
Native Texans – including Latino Texans with heritage from Mexico and central/South America – make great Orthodox Christians. It’s so natural.
As he said when he was flying over Texas so many years ago, the venerable Met. Leonty of blessed memory said “I’m praying for those who live in Texas now.” Vladika, who was among those who brought our holy faith from Russia to America, we need your prayers now more than ever! Vladika, you knew how to suffer yet also how to retain your humanity – please teach us how to as well.
The book about Vladika Leonty put out by St Tikhon’s is fantastic.
Blessed feast day of St Alexander Nevsky – truly a manly, Orthodox warrior saint, fighting for our holy faith and for his homeland. May St Alexander Nevsky be a model for all of us Orthodox Christians in the beleaguered West.
I am an UNWOKE Orthodox Christian. Christians were never promised a rose garden by God. We will suffer affliction and tribulation in the name of Christ. We follow Christ not human law that goes against Christ. Period.
Isn’t it time to discuss Jews and Revolutions?
What’s really going on? Predatory capitalism.
https://www.bluemoonofshanghai.com/politics/8184/
I feel you, Jane. But discussions regarding Jewish political activity often descend into expressions of animus against the Jewish people. This is certainly understandable given the character of their economic activity wherever they have roamed. You have to back up and realize that the Jews are actually saying something different than most other immigrants. They are, by their very continuation, rejecting Christ (and when they live in the Muslim world, rejecting Muhammad). They could, as Hebrews/Judeans, simply convert to Christianity or Islam and assimilate, even retaining some Hebrew cultural identity (like Latinos, Greeks or Slavs). Some have, but those that remain cling to their exclusive tribal identity. It’s not even religious, or even racial (see above example). It’s a sense of cultural speciality/entitlement.
They wish to remain strangers. Dominant strangers. They are pleading communal solidarity and the right to organize communal economic cooperatives and to rise to positions of serious economic influence within communities where they are not part of the dominant ethnicity or religion. That is the source of their difficulties.
I used to feel sorry for them because of the Holocaust. And, no doubt, that was a condemnable atrocity. However, things happen for a reason, not just out of the blue. Jewish economic exploitation and political activity most certainly contributed to the animus which led to the Final Solution.
Notwithstanding all of that, we are counseled by St. Paul to be patient with them and that they will eventually come around to Christ. The sooner they do so, the better for everyone. It is not my role to either condemn them across the board or to protect them from the natural consequences of their own actions. They are on their own.
I respect your viewpoint. I hope you will read the article a d the footnotes in the article. Perhaps you have already? The Jewish wealthy dynasty families run the global show. It’s a fact. The US military us their army. Truthbeknown.
Klaus Schwab: “No, Mr Bond.
I expect you to digitalise!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW9jwDwSOFI
[Video – 04:05]
I cannot listen to Schwab. He is an evil old piece of dried turd.
The ultimate Bond villain.
I’d liken Jane’s description of the head of the WEF to the EP, but I won’t since my confession list is already maxed out.
The idea that anyone in the will be held accountable is fantastically, irrationally optimistic.
George/Gail, I wonder if there is a way to get the Assembly of Bishops to recognize and call out the persecution of the canonical Ukrainian Church. They seemed to have no problem calling out Russia for the SMO, so logically they should do the same for the Orthodox Church.
Much like this blog was a catalyst for calling out the bishops during covid, and the Antics of Elpi, I think it would be good to bring attention to the UOC and Met. Onuphry. If they, and the other patriarchs, remain silent then they’re just as guilt as Bartholomew
Couldn’t agree more. They are very lax in this regard and I think part of the reason is they’re not completely informed.
Oh Petros my boy,
The AoB is run by the Greek Church of Istanbul! What on earth makes you think they’d ever criticize the fake church in Ukraine, which they “created”?!?
It’d be like Joe Biden criticizing his son Hunter for his laptop shenanigans! Not gonna happen!
It started out with a lot of hope, but the American AoB has turned out to be completely flaccid, plastic, and useless. Like the Greek archdiocese in America, the best course of action is to simply ignore them and expect nothing from them.
I have no allusion that the Greeks on the AoB would criticize the actions of Zelenski, but, given how ALL of the non-Greek bishops stood up against Elpi when he tried to promote Belya to bishop I think the non-Greeks have much more power than we give them credit, given that they vastly outnumber the Greek bishops.
Who, exactly, do you envision as being the ones to hold them (who are “them”?) accountable? 101th infantry? That top judge at The Hague (and who’s going to bring “them” there?) Or one of the judges at the Washington DC court? Please be a bit more specific so that we don’t have to play guessing games.
What can I say to a comment board filled with folks gung-ho for further offensives of Russia and a disbandment of my Greek Orthodox Archdiocese? I remember further the current threats made by Turkey against my ancestral Greece. knowing of Russia’s strong connection to Turkey.
All of you cheerleaders for Putin (and, indirectly, for Turkey), please remember the saying used in the US space program years ago: There is no problem so bad that it cannot be made worse.
I am afraid that you all are making it worse.
John, no one on this blog (that I know of) is shilling for the “disbandment of [the] GOA.” Or for any other jurisdiction for that matter. Earlier, I would say that most of us wanted the various jurisdictions to coalesce into an authentic, territorial, American Orthodox Church.
That is a far cry from asking for any “dismemberment.”
That said, given the pratfalls that the current GOA primate has suffered from –as well as the decidedly secularist/ecumenist trajectory of the GOA under his helm–I’d say that a unification of all jurisdictions in America is the furthest things from our minds. Indeed, my ire would be aroused if any other American Orthodox jurisdiction went along the primrose path of worldliness.
Please understand, as a Greek-American, I am most distressed by the current downfall (too strong a word?) of the GOA. In the Red States, the GOA primate has made evangelism all but impossible. I know Orthodox priests and laity who feel he “spat in the face” of those assembled at the March for Life last January. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Nor is anyone agitating for war. I certainly am not. War was brought to Russia’s doorstep by NATO aggression. Even Brzenzski, who had an abiding, genetic hatred for Russia, warned America that pushing the borders of NATO further east would be catastrophic. So did George Kennan (“Mr X” who originated the original Containment policy back in 1948) and Henry Kissinger, ultimate Realpolitikian. As to why Turkey and Russia are aligned, they have their own reasons. Personally that makes me uncomfortable.
Having said that, the fact that Erdogan looks out for his own nation’s interests speaks well of him. In fact, he may be riding on the correct historical wave. (See for example Orban in Hungary and Meloni in Italy.)
I only wish the Greek government was as stalwart in defending Greece’s interests. It’s possible of course that Greece is too small and/or economically dependent upon Brussels (or its Diaspora) to strike out in such a bold fashion.
Let me just comment on the so called Russian Turkish ‘alliance’…
Erdogan has been a regular supplier of weaponry to Ukraine. And Zelensky has gone on record praising Erdogan on numerous occasions. In some Ukrainian cities there were even posters of Erdogan calling him a friend of Ukraine, depicting him dressed in cyborg style armor.
Turkey also happens to have one of the largest standing NATO armies and of those numerous trained professionals, many professional military (mercenary) companies that can be deployed to Ukraine with fully plausible deniability. It controls the Bosphorous straits where Russian war and commercial ships pass. One can say Turkey’s greatest asset is what makes for great real estate investments: location. And that includes being able to take advantage of energy transit, as well as overflight rights.
That means that Russia is in a position where it cannot ignore Turkey, let alone be hostile to her during such a time.
Rest assured, there is no mutual love between Erdogan and Putin. Erdogan created a huge headache for Putin in Armenia by emboldening Aliev, and he’s showing no signs of relenting. I’m not even talking about the ongoings in Syria in years past, amidst other things. We can go on and on…
I recall a line from the Godfather: “Your father did business with Hyman Roth, your father respected Hyman Roth, but your father never trusted Hyman Roth”. So it is with Erdogan. He has the uncanny ability in this conflict to create trouble for either side, and he is always looking to maximize his ability to extract profit in both directions, like a true war time profiteer. In this sense, he’s like a water boy in the middle of the desert who can charge you $100 for a bottle because you can’t get it anywhere else, and it’s your own interest of survival. And don’t think the Russians don’t know it.
I’d love more than anything for Greece and Cyprus to be on Russia’s side (so would most Russians who have always been sympathetic to Greece), but that’s not happening – at least until there’s a stronger resistance within the EU block to fight the globalists. Orban has been a good example: the leader of a small landlocked European country and member of the generally anti-Russian Visigrad group managed to take a stand and refuse to bow to pressure to rubber stamp Brussels. Lessons Mitsotakis and Anastasiades should learn from.
To George Michalopulos: Well, I am at least glad that you are “uncomfortable” with Russia and Turkey being aligned. Just think, if you you were to actually go and offer your services to Russia, it might be followed by a Turkish occupation of some Greek territory in what Erdogan would call another “peace operation.” Putin could then order you to go help the Turks by being a translator. Yes, it could happen.
You wish the Greek government could be “stalwart in defending Greece’s interests.” Yet if Greece were to be more militant (in any direction) it would only offer the enemies of Greece the ability to say that Greece brought upon itself whatever disasters that might follow.
Greece must continue its generally moderate foreign policy.
You might want to read what I wrote just above your reply re: Turkey and Russia. No love there, pure pragmatism.
Despite Greece sending weapons to Ukraine, closing her airspace, and despite what Bartholomew and three other Greek first hierarchs did regarding the “OCU” including the late Chrystostomous of the Church of Cyprus, Russia has not significantly changed its policy toward Greece and Cyprus – even though in the case of the latter it could have easily offered to recognize the occupied part of Cyprus, in exchange for a military presence there that would balance the UK’s continued presence on the island, and offer Russian tourists direct flights to Ercan airport.
And by the way, the United States continues to not only keep Turkey in the NATO space but provide it with weaponry (despite the F-35 ban – apparently the Turks found it in their interest to not care). US made weapons continue to be used by Turkish troops in Cyprus. The US is definitely a bigger asset for Turkey than Russia, it’s just that Erdogan knows he is in a very convenient position now to profit from both sides.
Meanwhile, when it comes to choosing the US over Russia, Greek and now Cypriot politicians (and even clergy) are fine with throwing Russia under the bus. We’re always told “…but you must understand…”, yet when Russia deals with Erdogan there is a lack of a desire to “understand” and instead we get these angry comments that “Russia is betraying Greece”. You can’t build relationships on double standards.
Given Greek support for various diabolical machinations like the “Living Church” and the OCU, Greeks should be grateful Russia does not encourage Turkish action against them in Istanbul and elsewhere.
With Turkey continually threatening Greece, and with Turkey’s frequent celebrations of their previous genocides, this is perhaps the most mean-spirited comment of this thread.
John,
I cannot help but agree.
“For the peace from above, and for the salvation of our souls…
“For the peace of the whole world, for the good estate of the Holy churches of God, and for the union of all…”
We may have our differences, but do we pray what we believe, or don’t we believe what we pray?
As George often says, echoing St. John the Beloved, Let’s try to love one another.
Our forefathers fled heathenated grecletude to partake in American Holiness. Most Greek Americans are victims of communism and don’t care squat about Commitadges or Nigrasiatas or Cheaprious.
It’s certainly worrisome, isn’t it? BTW, Turkey just won another major geostrategic victory yesterday when they vetoed Finland and Sweden from joining NATO.
What to do? Will the US give Turkey more bennies or will we try to make life miserable for Erdogan (like we’re doing with Orban)? If the latter, then Turkey is driven further into Moscow’s embrace.
Gotta give Erdogan credit, he certainly knows how to play both sides against the middle.
John, Greece’s subservience to Brussels does them no good. If Italy can break free, then so can Greece. (Note: I’m talking about Greece’s domestic situation.)
As far as Turkey’s long-term goals, I see your point. However, how would Turkey’s invasion of the Dodecanese be any different than America’s occupation of the Southwest? Or France’s occupation of Alsace-Lorraine?
I see very big differences between the two historical examples you cited and, say, the Turkish entries into Smyrna in 1922 and into the northern one-third of Cyprus in 1974.
The Smyrna and Cyprus tragedies could be repeated on Greece’s islands.
By the way, I will be seeing the movie “Smyrna” when it shows tomorrow right. I hope you and others see it as well.
I hope to be there.
That said, using the example of the Greek of Smyrna after WWI is problematic, wouldn’t you say?
I was there at the movie. A very gripping presentation. I shows us what can happen when the Greeks are attacked by the Turks.
And now there is no Greek element in Smyrna, now called Izmir.
The Turks celebrate these events and remind Greeks that it can happen again.
So why do you fault Russia for protecting Russians in their ancestral homelands? When the filiki Etairia was operating in Odessa it was Russian territory not Ruthenian. When Laskarina Bouboulina was waging naval battles with the Ottomans she was flying Russian flags. Her ships docked in Odessa and Crimea. So it’s wrong when Russia protects their people in their ancestral lands but when Greece illegally invaded Smyrna that was “different”? I’m Greek and have no sympathy for the Greeks let them hide behind NATO (oh wait Greece is an ally of Turkey in NATO)
The Turks who ravaged Smyrna were supplied by the Russians.
Yet there seems to be no arguing with a Greek who despises his heritage, not just over today’s events, but also going back over a hundred years.
Clarification: Attaturk was supplied by Vladimir Lenin, the Bolshevik leader who had hoped Attaturk would join the cause of the Third Internationale. Context is critical here.
“The Turks who ravaged Smyrna
were supplied by the…[Soviets?]”
The Turks who ravaged Smyrna were supplied by the Soviets. Please don’t confuse Russian with Soviet. That’s the type of thinking employed by the Ukrainian extremists.
Lenin lent Chechens to his henchman Ataturk because Turks would not attack their Greek neighbors. Lenin did not win in one day, but the civil war lasted 1917-22 and the League of Nations, 19 nations including USA and Greece sent forces, which Lenin wanted to punish. Tito, Pangalos and Ataturk learnt their ways fighting with Lenin. Smyrna was the natural consequence of the collapse of Russian Whites. In 1926 soviet dictator Pangalos evicted those under fifty from Greek monasteries. Catherine invited Greeks and Jews to plot their regeneration from newly liberated Odessa, but in her mind that meant Greece and Israel as part of the Czarist Empire. Don’t let Committadges Stone get you to forget San Stefano and the East Rumelia; https://sites.google.com/site/persrusmacedonia/ Just see how short lived Georgian independence was in 1776.
I assume you’re addressing this comment to Kosta and far be it from me to reply for him. I would say that if one has a critique about his culture that doesn’t mean he “despises” it.
I, for one, do not.
My own critique about Greek involvement in the Great War was that we should have obeyed our king and remained neutral. True, we won but events soon spiraled out of control.
I would also add, that the “Russians” who supplied the Turks were led by Vladimir Zhabotinski, who also helped the Turks engineer the Armenian genocide. The British had made a side deal with Atarurk to entice him to cede the Iraqi oilfields to the British.
I think it was Western powers in general who armed Turkey and abandoned Greece. Regardless, this was during the Soviet period when godless communists were firmly in charge of Soviet foreign policy. Of course they acted like monsters. That is why Russians today recall the Fanar’s support for the Living Church, a Soviet facade.
Of course, the Nz’s later took up the example provided by the Turks, and those are the monsters who run the Ukraine presently.
https://www.ekathimerini.com/opinion/1192701/smyrna-1922-the-truth-still-matters/
Some Greeks have been trying to tie the Russians to Smyrna for some time now: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2022/09/09/smyrna-1922-a-complex-legacy/
If you have any information regarding Soviets arming Turkey with an eye toward killing Greeks in mind, I’d love to see it. I know you have no such information regarding Imperial Russians.
If this is to be believed, the Greeks themselves committed their fair share of atrocities against Turks, though I urge caution regarding Wiki, you should go to the sources cited and see whose ox is being gored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Turkish_War_(1919%E2%80%931922)
In all of this, I see no substantial mention of Russia. Bear in mind that Russia fought a campaign in the Caucasus against Turkey during WWI but that action ended when the tsar abdicated in February, 1917.
It is an ungrateful dog that bites the hand feeding it.
John, I was unable to make it. My elder son called me last night and told me how gripping the movie was.
Coincidentally, I was watching Kings and Generals (I’ll try to find the link) and they were talking about the Greek occupation of Smyrna. What is little know (and for which I’m deeply ashamed), is that the Greek Army committed atrocities against the Turkish population once they pushed out of Smyrna on their way to Ankara.
Like the Byzantine massacre of the Latins living in Constantinople (in 1185 if memory serves), our hands are not exactly clean either.
(We won’t even go into the Iliad!)
At any rate, i’d like your review of this movie.
You are correct to note Trojans were Turkish Hittites. Greeks should discard the theory that Trojans were Greeks, they were Hittite
Turks along with the Ugaritic Canaanites (Conder, J Anthr Inst v17 1888, pp 137-158) as confirmed by the volpomammic birthmyth of Romulus and Remus. Said myth (Hugh Pope, Sons of Conquerors, p 223) is shared with American Indians and Kyrgiz. Thomas Jefferson (via Constantinopolean Constantine Samuel Rafinesque-Schmaltz) knew the American Indians were Turks, confirmed by Hugh Pope (Sons of Conquerors, 2005, p221). But when Greeks from Turkey came in the 1920s, they could speak with the Indians, leading Americans to consider Greeks and Turks cousins in family squabbles. A hundred years ago the Turks were also known as Magog and Tatary. Alexander the Great pushed the Magog back over the Dervent Gates of the Armenian Cavcas only to have them return over a millenium later.
???
It seems that this is a particularly odious bit of pro-Turkish propaganda. They claim to be related to the ancient Trojans. That is nonsense!
This, of course, is an effort to give the Turks cover for exterminating the Greeks from Asia Minor.
More Gogery and Magogery from Tartary…
The problem with Greece is that they have no good alternative. At least Italy has Lega, etc.
Greece’s best options are: Communist, Socialist, or the “lite” version of those.
It will be interesting come next Spring to see what has occurred in the political landscape of not only Greece but the whole of Europe. If the boys at The Duran are to be believed then many governments will tumble.
In my casual observation of Greek politics, there does not appear to be a strong Eurosceptic conservative party. Hrisi Avgi was a disaster, Michaeloliakos and his cronies were crazy and only capable of political theater. It ended up being the liberal media’s parody of a right wing Eurospectic party. Kammenos’s ANEL was another sad story.
The Greek left has a very deep rooted base, but their biggest achievement – Tsipras – was another disaster from a Eurospectic perspective. After lots of tough talk about leaving the Euro and even hinting at leaving NATO, flirting with Putin for bailout money, he ended up making Greece even more dependent on Brussels.
Sadly, as with all other EU countries, political parties are used to that magic drug called “direct EU funding”, and it’s hard to escape its grasp. It’s difficult to start a Eurosceptic party (esp. a right wing one) because the cards are automatically stacked against you – your adversaries can easily tap the Brussels oligarchy for support once you start waving your banner.
The Greeks had a good alternative in Russia but they prefer to be vassals. They could of had a Russian pipeline but Greece nixed the idea. The Russians were some of the best tourists especially on Cyprus unlike the cheap drunkard western Europeans living out of their backpacks. They could have played Russia and the western empire off each other. They have made their grave now so let them lie in it.
Kosta, what you say is true, in all respects.
However, I think there’s a deeper 3D chess match that the Greeks are playing. And by Greeks, I don’t mean the Greek government, there fools every last one of them. Nor do I mean the ordinary Greek people, they’re hostages to the satraps of Brussels that rule in Athens. When I say “Greeks” in this respect, I mean the Greek shipping owners. These are some smart, tough cookies and they always look out for their own.
These ship-owners have already said that they will ship Russian oil. At a premium no less. They don’t care about the sanctions or the feckless fools of Athens. It’s a win-win-win: The Russians sell their product (oil) at a premium, the Greeks make more money transporting it (which they use to cover the increased cost of reinsurance, and the buyers (India, China, whoever) offload it onto their ports and resell it (again at a premium) to the EU.
So the EU gets screwed again. Screw ’em. Their finance ministers should have gone to any decent college and taken Econ 101.
As for the ordinary Greek people, they have a peasant’s (based) understanding how the world works. The ship owners have a steady supply of Greek young men ready, willing and able to hire on. If that means Athens loses revenue that’s OK because Average Greek Sailor will send remittances back to his family which can give them an additional economic cushion.
Kosta, countries don’t like it when somebody plays them off their adversary 🙂 That is of course the challenge of politics in small countries, trying to sit on two or even three chairs at the same time. Such is Vucic, president of Serbia – he’s got one leg in the EU, one in Russia, and a third leg in China. I don’t envy him frankly, it’s a tough balancing act.
One of the biggest challenges of a Russian-Greek alliance (as with Russian-Serbian) is geography. If Bulgaria were pro-Russian, it would be much easier because you don’t have to step over Turkey to have unintermediated lines of transportation – essential for solid defense and economic cooperation. But Brussels does an amazing job keeping Bulgaria in the anti-Russian orbit: it’s a small and poor country, so it’s very cheap to pay off politicians there. And Bulgarian-Greek ties still have to contend with bitter memories from the 20th century.
To me the biggest hope is a strong Eurosceptic wave from inside the EU, where we once again get a Europe of the nationalities as opposed to the supranational globalist project. It’s perfectly possible to have an EU confederacy, it just needs time and traction.
heathern Graeconia will revert to Ottoman Suzerainty as the Prometheus plans of 1853, 1967 and 2008 failed to neutralize their sovietical presticulations. Greece and China Signed 16 Deals on November 11, 2019. On Jun 14, 2021 Greece said they have no plans to end economic ties with China. Paese Eznepede told the Greeks the Russians and Chinese will save them (Suroti 1999) so they made him a saint on January 13, 2015. May 27, 2008, Greek chief priests of Manhattan, Boston and Atlanta report to Moscow. Greek Archbishop Elpedorfus Partook in the Black Lives Matter NYC Protest on Jun 3, 2020. Nigerians go learn Trojan Horse from Greece. Greek priests front for Putin in Cuba and Venezuela. A neighboring official wrote how their perfidious, slothful cult of envy begat Communism (World Bank WPS8399 April 2018) Alexi Gianoulias, Patrick Theros front Iran. Athens Archbishop Gristledole said we deserved 9/11. In 1983, Jesse Helms, who defeated Galifanakius for Congress, opposed a national holiday on grounds MLK was communist On March 15, 1965, Greek Archbishop Iakovus marched beside Martin Luther King at Selma, pictured on cover of March 26, 1965 Life magazine. Marchesini was going to expel the US Fleet and Macarius give Breznev bases. (Clayton Fritchey, Chicago Tribune, Nov 13, 1973, p. 14). December 1919 Bristol commission condemned Greek atrocities at Smyrna. Dionysan orgy underbrush fodder for pyro oil lamps, burnt selves off Smyrna in 1922,Thesalonia in 1917, Pyrgos in 1934, Pikermi in 1902, Parnasus and Tatoi in 1923, Oropus 1889, Pentelieus and Hymettus 1887, Thessaly 1878. Athos been a soviet spy base since 1839 (NY Times Aug 18, 1878. p. 6). Theodosian Code promoted confiscatory taxation and Diocletian socialism (Rostovtzeff 1926, Gibbon ch. 13) that Toynbee (1939, IV p. 399) said caused Anatolia to apostase into Islam. After the communist zealot massacre of Thesalonia aristocracy in 1342, Cantacusene usurpation of 1345 orchestrated by Moscow with omphaloscopic hesyogasm. Massacres of sixty thousand Latins in 1182 Istanbul blinded Enrico Dandolo who sought revenge in 1205 when Russians subdued by Mongols. Pope made Charlemagne emperor because Irene Fourtipace invented welfare. Justinian closing the universities promoted plague and Islam. Justinian Novella 85 is the precedent for gun control. Faya Yaya!
I think a Turkish troll has appeared here folks. At the end we can see how the whole thing is poorly researched, as a claim was made about Justinian’s relationship with Islam. The reality is that Justinian lived a hundred years before Islam.
Well, Meyendorf always blamed the Greeks for fighting instead of converting the Turks to the omphaloscopic usurpism of Cantacusene.
Don’t know what you’re smoking; but,
I expect the East India Company your supplier.
Wow, are you saying that the Russian tourists don’t drink?
A small nation is unavoidably consigned to a dangerous position in international relationships. You can call it “vassal” if you wish.
But consider the situation of Armenia, which has effectively been a vassal of Russia. That relationship was of limited benefit when the Azerbaijanis went to war with the Armenians in 2020 over Nagorno Karabakh.
Were it not for Russia, Armenia may not even have existed today, I doubt Iran would extend itself nearly as much as Russia had over the past 30+ years.
And despite the fact that the current Armenian administration heavily flirted with the west, it was the Russian peacekeepers which managed to quell the fighting.
What concerns Greece, all you need to do is see how effective the Greek diaspora has been in lobbying American politicians. Carolyn Maloney, Bobby Menendez and a few others rally on about Erdogan, at the end of the day it amounts to a hill of beans in DC. Turkey can’t buy F 35s only because they bought Russian military hardware, not because of Greece and Cyprus. Cyprus got the arms embargo lifted only because the US is glad to make it dependent on NATO hardware. Did the US do anything about the Turkish occupied north? Bunk.
Yet Greek American organizations continue pressing their case and some of these individuals (not all) are shilling for the Ukrainian cause in hopes it will buy them Washington’s protection from Erdogan. They keep throwing good money after bad at the Democratic Party, for naught.
George S: It was Kosta who tried to mock Greece for its vassal status to NATO powers. I then pointed out how Armenia is similarly a vassal to Russia. Those relationships can have their frustrations.
But, yes, you are right; Armenia has been aided by the Russians in at least a limited way recently and might not exist today at all if not for its vassal relationship with Russia. Do you actually want Greece to junk its connections with NATO now and seek protection as a vassal of Russia?
John, I imagine GeorgeS will respond for himself. You raise an excellent point however vis-a-vis Armenia’s vassalage to Russia. One I hadn’t thought of.
Because of your insight, I am wondering whether Greece or Armenia got the best of their status. From what I hear from my Greek relatives, the economic strictures that Brussels has placed on Greece have not been easy to live with.
It’s not for me to want or not want for Greece to do this or that – I’m not a Greek, after all. As a Philhellene I can only applaud some things and disapprove of others.
I think the logic underpinning Greece’s membership in the EU and her clinging to Euroatlantic institutions as the key allegiance is flawed. There is this thinking that “Since Greece is the cradle of Democracy and Western culture, we belong in the European Union/Euroatlantic ‘free world'”.
Back during the cold war there was unquestionably an objective of staying free of Eastern bloc absorption. But since that time not only has communism as a European threat disappeared, but the players in the transatlantic power structures have changed.
Now the transatlantic bloc has become a force that promotes the neo-liberal world order which is rapidly degrading into a post-Christian cultural marxist superstate. As with the communist bloc of years past, it is not content to stay in one place but seeks to ever expand its influence. It’s not an environment where a member of the club can opt out of the ideological component (ask Orban how that’s going). Even if a level of conservative traditionalism is marginally tolerated, marginally is the key word here. Lastly, it is also a jealous alliance that does not tolerate non-aligned actors. Full spectrum dominance is the name of the game.
Part of that full spectrum dominance strategy is to have Turkey on board as a defense partner. Either that or somebody like Iran, and we know that’s not happening. Erdogan may be an irritant, but hope springs eternal in western circles that the next Attaturk is around the corner, while Iran can’t fit with Israel no matter how hard you try. Hence Erdogan is tolerated. Hence we keep hearing Blinken and all the Euroatlantic think tanks say “Turkey needs to be kept with the west”. And that’s a fairly consistent policy across the aisle despite the best attempts of the Greek American lobbyists to convince DC that Greece = Democracy = Best partner while Erdogan = Anti-democracy = bad. Because the euroatlantic players could care less about democracy, it’s pointless to even prove it.
This game is not going to stop, because without Turkey in the equation full spectrum dominance doesn’t work nearly as well in the East Med, and East Med is very important. They’re not going to take the nukes out of Incirlik and put them in Souda, because in nuclear war response time is the difference between life and death, and we all know who the nukes are likely to be targeted at. Also, they are no worries about the Turkish population having an issue with sending nukes to Orthodox Russia, unlike in Greece where people may have a problem with that.
Bottom line, is the so called “west” a great big partner for Greece that treats her with respect and leaves the Greeks to determine their own societal norms and interrelations? Maybe some Greeks think that way, more likely many Greeks feel they have no choice and it’s best to keep throwing the darts and hoping Bobby Menendez will be elected president. Well, many Russian Americans hoped Trump would get elected and find a dialog with the Russian administration. We got John Bolton and Mike Pompeo instead…
Greece can’t be a real vassal of Russia because Russia doesn’t have the same strings Brussels has to control both geopolitical and interpolitical terms of engagement. Russian geopolitical relations don’t come with requirements to hold pride parades or accept third world migrants. Russia is dealing with Iran right now and neither country is telling the other how to live and conduct internal affairs, nor is there any ban on having bilateral relations with other states. That’s not how the jealous transatlantic club operates.
And this is not just about Greece and Russia. MANY countries around the world have grown tired of unipolar hegemony and there’s a new alternative club forming for those who want to have options in geopolitical relations. Geography makes it hard sometimes to change ties, but the more people do it, the more momentum there is, the better.
We’re told that democracy is great because people have a free choice. Ironically the “free world” of the “transatlantic west” operates on the principle that unipolar hegemony is the only way to be free. The contradiction should be obvious for all to see, especially for Greeks…
GeorgeS, a brilliant analysis! Your insights are eye-opening. Much to think about.
Exactly. Great analysis.
GeorgeS, I already responded to you earlier. Needless to say, I was highly impressed by your overall analysis. I especially like the concept of “full spectrum dominance.”
That said, having reread your analysis, your insights have inspired me to go on another tangent, one which you may or may not have realized. And that is this: when you speak of the “East Med” and its geostrategic importance and –this is key–the Greek-American lobby, then we Greeks are definitely over the barrel. You see, because the Ecumenical Patriarchate is not an independent agent but is instead a hostage to the Turks on the one hand and a CIA/globalist asset on the other, then the Greek-American lobby is hobbled from the outset.
What will the the GOA/Archons (i.e. the “Greek lobby”) do when the Turks demand additional sanctions from the State Dept should the need for them to do so arise? Do you begin to see the problem? Thanks to your analysis, I do.
Will the EP then importune on the Russians to come save his hide? Who will Greece turn to if the Turks demand the Dodecanese. If that scenario is too extreme to contemplate, how about if they demand reparations from the Greeks for their support for Kurdish terrorists?
It seems clear to me now (even more so) that because the EP has been playing this fanciful “New Rome” schtick that the Phanar will have nothing to show for it at the end of the day. It’s the same for Greece: the “cradle of democracy/source of Western Civilization” schtick will likewise come up snake-eyes because it’s just a fantasy as far as the State Dept is concerned.
It’s like the race card in American politics, it’s played in a cynical fashion by the Democrat Party only when it suits them.
Economic hassles are not as bad as being invaded. For the last couple of years Greece has managed better than the Armenians.
And the US military presence in Greece gives at least a limited hope of some protection from Turkey–and even provides some US cash.
Still, Turkey concerns me, of course.
Concerns me as well, John. When push comes to shove, the Greeks will always get the short of the stick.
It concerns me as well, John. That’s why I think that if/when push comes to shove, the US will throw Greece under the bus.
From Turks and Azerbaijanis,
whose intentions are murderous,
Armenia needs a protector.
Personally, I think than rather than “junk” their connections to NATO, they should be more like the Turks and start “reimagining” their relationship. Nothing wrong with playing hard to get.
George Michalopulos says Greece should be “playing hard to get.”
But taking that course can lead to the kind of diplomatic isolation that Greece experienced in 1922, when the Great Catastrophe occurred in Asia Minor.
Russia these days, as in 1922, has clearly chosen the Turks. That is unlikely to change.
The US and western Europe have not always played nice with Greece, but they remain the best option out there for Greece.
John, I hope you’re right. I personally see that the EU sees Greece as expendable. The northern countries bitterly resent Greece as an economic parasite.
NATO on the other hand needs Greece because of its geography. That doesn’t mean that the political situation regarding that “geography” can’t (or won’t) change.
John, I’ve been thinking overnight about your observation (which I believe is valid).
And it’s this: I come back to my original analysis, that Greece should have played “hard to get.” I fervently believe that if the Church of Greece had held firm in not recognizing the schismatic church in the Ukraine, the Russians would not be in bed with the Turks.
For one thing, had the three Greek-speaking churches (Athens, Alexandria, Cyprus) had done the right thing, we may not be in this present conflict in the first place. I realize that’s a hypothetical but life is complicated. Think of it this way: it has often been repeated that if Britain and/or France had activated one regiment in 1938 and placed it in Czechoslovakia, Hitler wouldn’t have annexed the Sudetenland. (We get that tidbit from the diaries of several German officers.) We also know that many members of the German general staff implored Hitler to not invade Russia.)
Second, the coalescing of Russia’s interests and Turkey’s –while they are antithetical to Greece’s presently–are not necessarily antithetical to Greece’s. Both Greece and Turkey made common cause against the Soviet Union for decades and even sent soldiers to fight side-by-side during the Korean War. I’m sure there are at least one or two realpolitikians in both Ankara and Athens who could thread that needle, to the mutual benefit of both.
Third, had Athens not pressured the Greek Holy Synod to vote the way they did, the fissures that already exist within NATO/EU would widen. Let’s be honest, they are going to widen anyway. The EU is like Yugoslavia (and the Ukraine), an untenable, artificial construct, one cobbled together on an unrealistic basis. For one thing, you cannot have “Europe” without Russia. As I see it, NATO/EU is not an organic entity but an “astroturfed” one.
As such, it will inevitably implode, one way or the other.
It would be better for Greece if it were inside the Eurasian tent looking out than outside the Eurasian tent looking in. It should be obvious that Turkey is no longer beholden to the West, regardless of its status in NATO. It has become increasingly associated with Russia. Thus, given its position, the US is not postured to influence Turkey in Greece’s favor and has even allegedly been involved in plots aimed at regime change.
Greece’s natural place is with Orthodox Russia inasmuch as it is a predominantly Orthodox country. It’s not about democracy. And even if it were, the West is not democratic in any meaningful sense of the word. What is called “democratic” by some is the seeming air of freedom of expression in the West. However, that has long been curtailed in favor of Liberal Totalitarianism. One is only free to express certain opinions, otherwise one is a target for cancellation.
Basically, it’s going to be authoritarianism across the board. The only question is what variety. Western “liberal democracy” has always been a dishonest illusion. That is the real value of the Trump phenomenon: pulling back the curtain so we could see the real Wizard of Oz and how sausage is actually made. It has precious little to do with “democracy” but is simply psyops run by oligarchs through the intelligence services.
Not that “democracy” is a desirable goal. America was founded as a republic. The Church Fathers decisively rejected democracy in favor of monarchy. Given the appetites and tolerances of contemporary world society, outright monarchism may not be optimal. However, dominant party politics (one party dominance, quasi-authoritarian rule, ideally right wing) is about the best that the Orthodox can obtain at this point given the realities of Liberal Totalitarianism.
Would a tsar/emperor do any better against Western Liberalism than Putin? Doubtful. It goes without saying that the side imposing LGBT and feminism is evil.
Russia has put together an emerging Eurasian coalition with China, India and other countries as varied as Iran and Saudi Arabia. Like it or not, this coalition is growing economically and the West is retreating economically. One can see this clearly in the UK and Germany. It is a bit like a buildup before a tidal wave: the coast dries up and the water recedes but in the distance one can see a mountain – or is it a wave . . .
Anyway, let Greece do as it wills. So far it has chosen poorly so I wouldn’t venture to speculate on what it will do.
I cheer for Putin. Numerous times since 2014 he requested to negotiate with Ukraine. (Minsk agreement). The US told Z in February not to. How many missiles are lined up facing your home? The US is front man for certain folk who NC want Russia broke up into regions. Lots of treasure to be had!
What blogs, news articles, books are you currently reading and researching? Please name them. You may not have a clear understanding of how we got here today?
Certainly I am for peace. Bartholomew is not. He created the schism in Ukraine.
Jane: I am generally well-read, the blog’s George M will attest to that.
Russia was mistreated in many ways over recent decades, much like Germany was mistreated at the end of World War I. In both cases the humbled nations ended up being ruled by a leader who went too far in responding to his nation’s grievances.
To put it specifically, I do not think it would be good to see Putin and Russian troops in Kiev. You probably hope to see that.
A good leader is someone who looks after his country’s interests and doesn’t allow foreign actors to change this focus. The EU globalist political class is one such foreign actor, and those who are members of this club end up being forced to adhere to this superstate.
Putin may have given Russia herlast chance of being independent of this globalist model of governance, and that can only be considered a good thing – not only for Russians but for all those who are sick of being subjects of the new globalist world order. Now people can build economic relations with a country that won’t cut you off if you don’t have a pride parade in your capital. What a concept…
What is ‘going too far’? I guess it depends on your personal assessment. Fortunately Putin is the kind of leader that isn’t interested in what other countries leaders think of him, because he has his priorities straight. It would be one thing if he were a Ghengis Khan figure, but that is not who he is.
Various attempts to compare him to Hitler and Stalin are absurd. My family experienced both such regimes and to compare that to today’s Russia is ludicrous.
Can you imagine during Stalin’s time someone like Ksenia Sobchak being allowed to leave and then re-enter the country? Can you imagine over one hundred thousand military aged men being allowed to leave the country in fear of the draft? Can you imagine during World War II the Germans trying to minimize the civilian casualties of their adversaries in battle (or how about the Americans in Iraq, lol)? I can go on and on.
Let’s face it: some of Putin’s harshest critics come from countries which are so deeply entrenched into the globalist governance model that they can’t imagine a life outside of it. That’s very sad, because the more people think that way, the less free they will be. Sort of like the prisoners in Plato’s cave.
Global Governance Model = Mass Formation Psychosis
“….making it worse.” may be a bit over the top, eh John? Unless Putin happens to be a frequent visitor here and thinks “wow, I have support of some people on Monomakhos – we better crank it up a notch”.
I’d take the comments posted here at face value, some well thought out, others expressed out of the emotions of the moment. At the end of the day, what should NOT matter is what country one is aligned with – but how our beliefs and actions align with the teachings and traditions of the church. There are plenty of Russian Orthodox who are horrified with what is happening in Ukraine, and plenty of Greek Orthodox who are horrified with the actions of Patriarch Bartholomew and Abp Elpidophoros. Taking it back to a Russia/Turkey/Greece thing is not really helpful or healthy – IMHO.
To just a dad: It is in large part a Greek thing to me because Greece truly is in great danger from Turkey.
If Greece is in great danger with Turkey it’s because they deserve it. It’s not Russia that is in NATO. It’s Greece along with Turkey that are in NATO. Both Greece and Turkey are military buddies in an alliance against Russia. Turkey plays both sides as many smart countries do when two powers exert their influence. Greece is a puppet vassal state of America and that’s why it gets shafted voting for every sanction and doing whatever Brussels and the Yankees tell them too, to their detrimant. I’m Greek too, but I have no sympathy for Greece, they chose the wrong side (as usual)
Kosta: It seems that all ethnic groups in have a few bitter misfits who, for various reasons, have turned against their people. You give us an example of that.
But think about what comments like yours, if publicized a great deal, will serve to enable. A Turkish move against Greece these days could rival in horrors the worst of what Greece has previously endured.
Greece can make mistakes with its politics, all nations do. That is no excuse to say they will “deserve” a disaster.
And Greece remaining in a toxic military alliance with Turkey isn’t? Some major cognitive dissonance there.
Give it a few generations. Pretty soon the Greeks will be like the Ukrainians—Russians who were so badly abused by Catholic Polaks that they started to hate who they were and took on an invented ethnonym.
For Greece the goal of the NATO alliance was never to help protect Turkey. It was to give protection to Greece in a dangerous world.
I am not aware of Greece forgetting that it is Orthodox instead of Catholic. . . [Editor Note: Deleted]
Since few, if any, who comment here have any say or influence whatsoever over the movers and shakers in world geopolitics or Church affairs, I’m wondering how any here can “make that worse.”
It seems perhaps you mistake us plebes with (various) opinions for the people in various offices (worldly or churchly) who have power.
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
Is anyone going to answer Lola’s question?