Breaking: The Romanians Play Hardball

Abp. Nathaniel Popp – Several days ago, I suspended commentary on the upcoming Romanian Convocare, pending any further developments.

Last night, I received word that ORSMA (i.e. the Sex Czar) has been tasked with investigating allegations against Bishop Irineu Devlea, the Bishop of Dearborn Heights and currently the only auxiliary bishop in the Romanian Episcopate of the OCA. As such, I am reopening the issue of the upcoming Convocare and its various irregularities.

Like all ORSMA investigations this was supposed to be done in the strictest confidence. (That’s the official word anyway). Generally speaking, this is next-to-impossible given the fact that the subject of such an investigation is immediately suspended from all liturgical and administrative functions. For a priest, that’s hard enough, for a bishop –not possible. You might as well bet on the sun rising in the West tomorrow.

The timing of course is suspicious, given the fact that the Romanians were going to meet in a conventicle to elect two auxiliary bishops and the divisions between the pro-Bucharest and anti-Bucharest camps going into this meeting. For those keeping score, Bishop Ireneu is in the pro-Bucharest camp.

In addition, my sources tell me this was most likely an effort to divert attention from the canonical impediments against one of the episcopal candidates. The candidate in question is a divorced man whose only wife had been a divorcee herself. His main qualification appears to be is his unwavering loyalty to Archbishop Nathanael Popp.

More information will be forthcoming as the situation continues to unfold.


(2015-09-01 – Grass Lake, MI) Cancelaria Episcopiei a fost notificată de către Biroul de Investigare și Revizuire a Acuzațiilor de Abatere Sexuală (ORSMA) a Bisericii Ortodoxe din America despre faptul că Preasfințitul Părinte Irineu (Duvlea), Episcop de Dearborn Heights și Episcop Vicar al Episcopiei Ortodoxe Române din America, este cercetat pentru acuzația de comportament sexual neadecvat. Până la finalizarea investigațiilor, Preasfințitul Părinte Irineu beneficiază de prezumția de nevinovăție. În conformitate cu Metodele, Standardele și Procedurile (PSP) de prevenire a abaterilor sexuale ale ORSMA, Preasfințitul Părinte Irineu este deprivat de sarcinile sale oficiale și nu are binecuvântare să desfășoare activități liturgice în cuprinsul Eparhiei noastre sau în altă parte.

Procesul de investigare este extrem de confidențial, de aceea, nimeni nu ar trebui să discute pe acestă temă. Datorită faptului că Preasfințitul Părinte Irineu a făcut cunoscută ancheta și altor persoane, Episcopia a hotărât să facă public acest demers de investigare. Să ne rugăm pentru Preasfințitul Părinte Episcop Irineu și pentru toți cei implicati în acest anchetă.
+NATHANIEL, Arhiepiscop


(September 1, 2015 – Grass Lake, MI) The Episcopate Office has been notified by the Office for Review of Sexual Misconduct Allegations (ORSMA) of the Orthodox Church in America, that His Grace, Bishop Irineu (Duvlea), Bishop of Dearborn Heights and Auxiliary Bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of America, is being investigated for allegations of sexual misconduct. His Grace Irineu is presumed innocent pending the outcome of the investigation. According to the Policies, Standards and Procedures (PSP) of ORSMA, His Grace Irineu has been placed on Leave of Absence and does not have a blessing to serve liturgically in our Episcopate or at any other location.

The process is highly confidential, and no one should discuss the investigation with anyone. However, since this investigation is being made known to others by His Grace Irineu, the Episcopate decided to make a general public announcement about this matter. We pray for His Grace, Bishop Irineu and all those participating in this process.


  1. Time to Clean House says

    The fact that the OCA has never taken the time to investigate the colorful past Ab. Nathaniel is just another indication of the corruption that infects that jurisdiction.

    When Nathaniel was one of the “three amigos” in Rome, along with Benedict DeSocio and Mark Forsberg (yes the same Bishop Mark Forsberg who has been in a loving relationship with his Archdeacon Gregory Burke) their antics in Rome were notorious.

    +Nathaniel has blocked every attempt to have Burke defrocked. Isn’t it strange that a man, Burke, who ran off to California and married another man, then went back to Florida after Bishop Mark went after him has never been dealt with by ORSMA? The OCA has scuttled his being defrocked because of the efforts of the ruling hierarch of the ROEA. Burke has used “mental instability” as his defense. Really? Maybe the OCA can ask the Albanian Archdiocese why they got rid of Bishop Mark when he was their ruling bishop? Maybe Fr. Arthur Liolin, yes, the brother of Bishop Nikon (Liolin) of the OCA New England and Albanian Diocese, and a frequent guest of Bishop Mark and Deacon Burke in Florida can shed some light on the selective prosecutions of sexual deviants in the OCA.

    Now we see +Nathaniel going after the one man in the ROEA who knows the depth of +Nathaniel’s immorality. And the OCA will just roll over and turn a blind eye once again?. Bishop Irineu brought charges against Nathaniel back in 2005 and then Metropolitan Herman stabbed Irineu in the back by not investigating the charges and tipped off Nathaniel of Irineu’s charges. It was then and since then, that Nathaniel threatened Irineu with deportation if he ever tried to talk about Nathaniel’s past.

    Those charges are still valid and must be investigated. Maybe now the OCA will finally listen to Bishop Irineu and expose the truth about Nathaniel. If it doesn’t then their high profile attempts to establish sexual misconduct rules and investigations are not worth a damn.

    No amount of deflection attempts by Nathaniel’s shills on this site can change the facts. Nathaniel is a desperate man. The ROEA deserves much better than what they have had to deal with these many sad years. And God knows that the OCA would be better off with Nathaniel gone.

    • You said:

      When Nathaniel was one of the “three amigos” in Rome, along with Benedict DeSocio and Mark Forsberg (yes the same Bishop Mark Forsberg who has been in a loving relationship with his Archdeacon Gregory Burke) their antics in Rome were notorious.

      Ah, the company that some of these ecclesiastics keep!

      for example:

      Is it only a couple years ago that Metropolitan Jonah was judged worthy of a deviant mental asylum for company he didn’t actually keep ?

      Didn’t much like your veiled aspersions on the very estimable widower Father Arthur. Shame on you!

      • Time to Clean House says

        No aspersions towards Fr. Arthur. He knew all about +Mark and Gregory Burke and got rid of them. Their relationship was a scandal and +Mark chose Burke over his episcopacy in the Albanian Archdiocese. Fr. Arthur is in no position now to do much of anything, but his brother can. But won’t.

  2. Formerly ROEA says

    Whew! It’s hard to see this as anything but a suicide attack. What could this gain Archbishop Nathaniel, when the obvious immediate impact will be to throw the upcoming Convocation, Congress, and Episcopate in general, into an uproar? Whatever shred of trust and goodwill the majority Romanian-speakers might have had for him will be out the window for sure.

  3. Challenging Bp Ireneu Duvlea was probably the worst counseled, most stupid thing Abp Nathaniel Popp could do, whether or not BpID is guilty, because in his efforts to defend himself in whatever sham of a spiritual court might attempt to try him, BpID will let loose of all the embarrassments of AbpNP, Adn David Oancea , Bp Mark Forsberg and his long-time deacon boyfriend, etc., etc. Maybe the next bishop of Dallas will start to fix that.

    The almost institutionalized active homosexuality in the episcopate of the OCA is about to come to light, and with that, we can hope and pray that our OCA will be cleansed and purified and get back to being normal.

    Our better bishops must acknowledge this scandalous behavior, correct it and discipline their fellow bishops, and make sure that we do better in the future.

  4. anonymus per Scorilo says

    In addition, my sources tell me this was most likely an effort to divert attention from the canonical impediments against one of the episcopal candidates.

    You sources are just feeding you with pro-Irineu intox.

    The only thing that is happening is that +Irineu’s camp is opposing ANYBODY ELSE to be an auxiliary bishop, such that people will have no choice but to elect him as ruling bishop when the time will come. They did this to Fr. Joseph Morris (they could not find canonical impediments on him so they attacked him for not “feeling Romanian”) and they are doing it now to these two candidates, and they would do it against anybody else who would be put forth.

    Blocking the election of another auxiliary bishop is the only path for +Irineu to become ruling bishop (if you want to see how well he would fare against any other candidate check out the number of votes he got for the DOS election), and they are fighting desperately to keep this path open.

    • Texan Orthodox says

      Wow, this is a straw man argument if I ever read one: “…if you want to see how well he would fare against any other candidate check out the number of votes he got for the DOS election.”

      How Bishop Ireneu fared in the DoS election has no relevance to the episcopal election in the Romanian Episcopate. The OCA DoS is overwhelmingly comprised of “American” convert and “cradle” Orthodox who are overwhelmingly culturally American. A Romanian-speaking, essentially Romanian Orthodox, bishop has no business being the bishop of an English-speaking, missionary-oriented DoS. Thus Bishop Ireneu did not get many votes in the DoS episcopal election.

      This drama in the OCA Romanian Episcopate (the OCA drama seems never-ending, doesn’t it?) makes me thankful that I am no longer part of that jurisdiction. In good conscience, I simply could/can no longer support the OCA. It was sad for me, because I was with the OCA for so many years and had many wonderful and spiritually enriching experiences with individual parishes and priests. But the never-ending drama and what seems to be the pro-homosexualist agenda of some in the OCA leadership makes me not regret that decision of leaving the OCA years ago. I am still remotely curious as to whether the OCA will allow Archimandrite Gerasim to be the next bishop of the DoS. Part of me thinks that, at the last minute, they will shuffle someone else in to that position.

      May our Most Holy Mother pray for us to give us the strength and determination to clean house in American Orthodoxy!

      • Mark E. Fisus says

        Has the high-level intrigue in the OCA affected the spirituality you said was rewarding at the parish level? Most parishes get a perfunctory annual visit from the bishop, if even that. I wouldn’t base my decision about which church to attend on politics which are far removed geographically and administratively from the day-to-day life of the parish. Orthodox is Orthodox. Is the priest a decent one? Is the parish life healthy? That’s all you need to care about.

        • It is possible for priests and parishes to hide out and pretend that the bishop doesn’t exist and create a reasonably healthy parish life just as it is possible for an orphan to manage to survive on the streets of a city. That doesn’t make it an ideal situation for growth.

          Even bishops who visit but once a year can have a profound influence on their dioceses, through setting standards and expectations for priests, through backing up good priests against vicious parishioners, through rescuing parishioners from bad priests, through working to carefully match priests with parishes, and all sorts of other support that parishioners rarely see. Having a good bishop as well as a good priest is similar to the having two parents rather than only one. Many people have proven that they can turn out well coming from a single parent home, but the advantages of having two are profound. Start adding in extended family support (think healthy sister parishes and brother priests in a diocese who have been nurtured under the same good bishop father figure) and it becomes exponential.

          Yes it matters.

        • Texan Orthodox says


          Thanks for your comments, brother, and I don’t want to argue. I do not know the data everywhere, but I do know that for one of the local OCA parishes here in Texas, the last time they had a bishop visit was in 2006. The ever-memorable Archbishop Dmitri. That’s nearly 10 years ago.

          In answer to your other questions, “Is the parish life healthy?” Not so much at many of these parishes. And I do think it has to do with the fact that some parishes are simply neglected by their hierarchy.

          Ten years since the last episcopal visit? In these days of airplane travel, when one can fly from Houston to New York or from Dallas to L.A. in about 3 hours? And with Southwest Airlines, where you don’t even pay for checked luggage!

    • George Michalopulos says

      To even nominate Bishop Irineu for the DOS was questionable at best. Although by most accounts a fine man, the fact that he’s a Romanian national who can’t speak a lick of English made a lot of us in the South wonder what the blazes was going through the minds of Syosset.

      All that being said, it looks like he’s being railroaded. I pray he pulls out of this. I’d like to see him demand a spiritual court. Enough of this super-secret ORSMA bidness.

      • Mark E. Fisus says

        what the blazes was going through the minds of Syosset.

        Maybe to provide the impression of choice.

        All that being said, it looks like he’s being railroaded.

        And what if he really is a “bishop behaving badly?” I’d let the investigation run its course.

  5. Can someone please give more background? It would seem some of the commentators know some more background info based on their comments. Ones like these for example:

    “The almost institutionalized active homosexuality in the episcopate of the OCA is about to come to light, and with that, we can hope and pray that our OCA will be cleansed and purified and get back to being normal”

    I know about the institutional homosexuality in the OCA, but how is that connected to the Romanian convocare?


    “When Nathaniel was one of the “three amigos” in Rome, along with Benedict DeSocio and Mark Forsberg (yes the same Bishop Mark Forsberg who has been in a loving relationship with his Archdeacon Gregory Burke) their antics in Rome were notorious.”

    What happened in Rome?

    I thought the whole thing had to do with the qualifications for any candidates for the episcopacy.

    • anonymus per Scorilo says

      Can someone please give more background?

      There is no more background. Just guilt by association and innuendos by people who have an axe to grind against Abp. Nathaniel.

      For example Fr. James has always been a supporter of Fr. Robert Kondratick, and Abp. Nathaniel presided over the spiritual court that defrocked Fr. Robert ( As a result he tends to accept without too much discernment and to repeat all over the place the intoxication about Holy Bishop Irineu exposing the moral turpitude of Evil Abp. Nathaniel and being punished in return.

      • My displeasure with Abp Nathaniel has to do with his generally being scurrilous and a scoundrel in every area in which he flaunts his clout, mostly because of his…shielding of homosexual clergy.

        What he did to Fr Robert Kondratick was an exponent of all that, and an index of the malignant influence AbpN has had on the OCA’s Holy Synod of Bishops lo these many years. In that particular event, the results had already been ‘baked in the cake’ because of pettiness and envy among the OCA’s bishops, several of whom had embarrassing secrets to hide. The fact is, though, that what the bishops thought was secret has long been known and is disgusting the laity, who will act appropriately before long.

        Please note that I did not write ‘Synod of Holy Bishops’.

        ‘How long, Lord?’ HOW LONG???

  6. M. Stankovich says

    Mr. Michalopulos,

    So, your decision to “reopen” this discussion because of “new developments” has, in fact, repaved the road to (pay attention to the vibe, Thomas Barker) the the same old song that was playing 5-years ago; which, Lord knows, inevitably will lead to the question, “Wasn’t Jonah the Metropolitan back then? Why didn’t he clean house?” Survey says” “Lavender Mafia.” Round & round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel… AND, chimes in the undisciplined, scandalous monk James, constitutionally from the core incapable of uttering the words, “I was wrong, I apologize,” apparently believes himself in a position to direct the better bishops to discipline! Crazytown this is. Whatever Abp. Valerian (Trifa) did in his youth, he repented and lived a monastic life; he faithfully established and led his flock; he brought a man to this country who was literally tortured for the faith, Archimadrite Roman (Braga), whom many (including myself) believe will be acknowledged to be a saint, who helped develop and supported until his last day on this earth, a wonderful, flourishing women’s monastic community near the Vatra. And all of this is unmentioned and unknown, buried under by scurrilous, anonymous, ethnic-driven trash and murderous gossip.

    And finally, having served as a consultant to ORSMA, and as one who knows the “Sex Czar” personally, I am offended at any inference that its Coordinator, Cindy Heise, LMSW, is a “tool” or operative of some “plot” or manipulation. I personally defend her integrity and professional ethic.

    • Thomas Barker says

      Your Four Tops link, M. Stankovich, is one of the few elements of this discussion that I recognize as familiar.

    • Ms. Heise may personally have integrity. I have no reason to doubt that. The Sexual Misconduct process in the OCA though is a huge boondoggle. From its usurpation of episcopal authority, which then becomes a justification for episcopal inaction, to the failure to promulgate and follow procedures, to the Spanish Inquisition nature of the investigations, to the puzzling lack of timely action, to the inability to distinguish between degree of offense and risk, the OCA’s approach to sexual misconduct allegations is a case study in what not to do and how not to do it. It is a bureaucracy for bureaucracy’s sake that leaves alleged victims and alleged perpetrators alike as collateral damage in its wake as it grinds along becoming a self-fulfilling justification of its own existence.

      • Daniel E Fall says

        Or we could have bishops, brooms, and rugs!

        Great idea :(.

        How’d that work for the other guy?

        Your anonymity and pen name precludes the post.

      • M. Stankovich says

        Unfortunately you mix valid observation & criticism with what appears to be purposefully inflammatory statements that, from my experience, are untrue. Your suggestion of “fraud” & “self-fulfilling justification of its own existence” are untrue. To my knowledge, Ms. Heise is the only paid employee – and I will state quite unequivocally, you could not pay me enough to assume that position – and the consultants volunteer their services.

        Your comment as to a “Spanish Inquisition nature of the investigations,” while overwrought, is a philosophical question worth addressing. The cases presented to an office of sexual misconduct are on a wide spectrum – obviously more than you would imagine – include those which are obviously “immoral,” but there is no identifiable “victim” (e.g. clergy in a consensual relationship with someone in their secular work), to child sexual abuse and incest. Obviously, some of these matters involve liability, mandated reporting, and necessary involvement of the legal system. Nevertheless, it is the mission of the Church to protect, comfort, ease the suffering and relieve the shame of victims. I personally withdrew my participation from ORSMA because I believe they have chosen a path guided & directed by former law enforcement that employ techniques and procedures, as I personally observed, and that were later defended to me, that I believe violate my ethics as a mental health professional & physician. Others may feel differently, but in real time, I walked out of an “investigation.” I worked in prisons for 10-yrs., and I am not naive as to the nature of heinous crimes nor perpetrators. Nevertheless, I managed to respect the image and likeness of God, no matter how personally despicable the individual before me. Obviously, potential criminal cases before a sexual misconduct office demand attention: immediately call the police, and fully cooperate as required by ethical demand and without restraint. Otherwise, I personally cannot find justification for subjecting Orthodox clergy to law enforcement tactics and procedures for accusations of immorality. The most favorable intervention in which I participated involved a diocesan chancellor, the dean, and myself, that was planned with incremental steps as necessary; that began with prayer; that was frank; that protected the safety of all parties involved; that offered specific solutions with the support & authority of the bishop; and closed with prayer and a sense of hope. Is this realistic in every case? Certainly not. But why must it even be said that more will be restored by hope than terror?

        • M. Stankovich says

          I need to clarify that my examples of “cases presented to an office of sexual misconduct are on a wide spectrum,” did not intend to apply specifically to any case related to ORSMA or the OCA. I was speaking to what “an office of sexual misconduct” might investigate in general.

  7. Formerly ROEA says

    I cannot speak to any accusations, but maybe I can shed some light on what is immediately at stake.

    The Romanian Orthodox in North America are divided into two jurisdictions since the early 1950s. The ROEA is under the OCA and, until the fall of Communism, was progressing steadily towards Americanization. With the influx of Romanians and Romanian priests into the ROEA after 1989, the Romanian-speaking first generation immigrants have become powerful, perhaps the numerical majority, and they mostly lean towards reunion with the other Romanian Orthodox jurisdiction (under the Patriarch of Romania).

    Bishop Irineu is the de facto leader of the Romania-leaning faction. Archbishop Nathaniel wants to retire, and wants to insure that he will not be succeeded by Bishop Irineu. Thus he has introduced, on very short notice, a Convocation in which two American-leaning candidates are proposed for election as Auxiliary Bishops. The qualifications of those candidates are being contested by the Romania-leaning faction.

    It would seem that someone is attempting to neutralize Bishop Irineu and the Romania-leaning faction at the last moment before the election convocation. Whether the allegations prove to be true or false, this move, at this time, can only bring disaster, imho.

    • anonymus per Scorilo says

      Bishop Irineu is the de facto leader of the Romania-leaning faction

      Bishop Irineu’s supporters are indeed trying to portray this as an American-Romanian conflict, and to present him as the leader of the pro-Romania faction, persecuted unjustly by the evil pro-Americans. However, this pictures has many many holes.

      First, most of the pro-Romania faction was against his election, and is still against him. There is an old Romanian proverb which explains why: “with such friends, who needs enemies.” They know very well the reasons why he was not elected bishop in Romania, and they know very well that these reasons do not make him a very good exponent of their cause. The present ORSMA investigation confirms that their reluctance to support him in the first place was justified.

      Second, they have probably talked to the monks from Sambata who had him as abbot, and hence have gotten his measure much better than the people who have only seen him waving dikiri-trikiri. I do not think their love for Bucharest is large enough to compensate for having him as ruling bishop for a few decades.

      Third, they are much too smart to place all their eggs in one basket. There are many more subtle ways to stir the ROEA towards Bucharest. A nice chat over a cup of coffee with whoever will be the next head of the ROEA is much more efficient than the gramatically-challenged ravings of people who claim Abp. Nathaniel has stolen millions from the ROEA, is a satrap, is gay, is fascist, etc.

      And fourth, think about Romanian pride – what self-respecting Romanian would like to be represented at the Assembly of Bishops in front of the other Orthodox in America by somebody “who can’t speak a lick of English” (paraphrasing George).

  8. Formerly ROEA says

    And for whatever it’s worth, I believe the two candidates are fine men. As to whether or not they are good candidates for the episcopacy, and whether or not this election at this time is a good idea, I’m glad I don’t have to decide.

    Bishop Irineu has also shown himself to be a very capable bishop, and his pastoral support for the Romanian speakers in the ROEA has been very much needed. Unfortunately he has been rather open in his criticisms of and conflicts with Archbishop Nathaniel. Which simply makes these allegations at this moment seem rather suspicious….

  9. seeingthrough says

    Nathaniel and Mark Forsberg were expelled from Ukcrainian diocese before they try to join the OCA. They were expelled from Roman Catholics and from Holy Trinity Romanian Orthodox Church in Youngstown, Ohio.
    Late on Bishop Mark Forsberg, elected bishop of Albanians in OCA was red hand discovered by the Albanians and expelled from OCA, with a salary for life. Now he lives in Florida with…deacon David. Nathaniel visits Florida more often and guess where is he staying ????
    Recently Bishop Mathias of Chicago was suspended by the OCA because he was involved with a lady. He made a big mistake because he was involved with a lady not with a man. If he was doing the second option he could be promoted not demoted. (I told him that, and he was just laughing, now he is out of the Parish in Hermitage Pa.)
    OCA bishops is a clicque of homos who support themselves. Jonah was not Russian, not homo and he is out. Theodosius and Herman could not not cover their…activities and now they are retired with a full pension. LOL. Mathias has no pension, no financial support and he does’n know too much therefore is out for good.

    • Daniel E Fall says

      I have never seen anyone work a paintbrush so hard over the actions of Matthias. Comparing a man acting on a vulnerable woman to men hanging out together fulfilling your homosexual fantasies does require anonymity as well.

      Get a new canvas.

      • they make is sound like he raped her…or molested her…
        as i remember he asked to stay at her place but told her if anyone found out
        people would get the wrong idea…

        • Daniel E Fall says

          Noone said he raped her.

          Intimacy is not necessarily sexual. It is a close bond. A bishop is not supposed to engage in such. His behavior was way off base. Any suggestiveness of impropriety beyond said is not needed. Matthias cannot be defended in any way. He let the people down as have many of the bishops.

          The fact you drag up the mud and defend him suggests an ulterior motive to demote the OCA.

          It does nothing else.

    • Estonian Slovak says

      There may be some truth in what you say .From which Ukrainian Diocese were they expelled, the one under Constantinople or what used to be the larger, but uncanonical group?
      (The two groups merged in the 90’s with the blessing of the EP). There used to be a joke that the uncanonical Ukrainians would accept anybody. If that group expelled them, it’s hardly a compliment to them.
      I presume you are Romanian. Very few OCA bishops were Russians in the strict sense of the word. Metropolitans Theodosius and Herman are both Carpatho-Rusyns, whom the Ukrainians consider to be “bad” Ukrainians. Even in the Metropolia’s Russian speaking days, two members of the Synod of Bishops were Latvian, the rest almost all Byelorussians or Ukrainians .Metropolitan Ireney was a Byelorussian from Poland, Archbishop Kiprian was from a region in Ukraine so far to the West that it remains in Poland to this very day. The only Great Russian Bishop that I can think of was the late Archbishop John Shahovskoy of San Francisco, although there were some in the earlier Russian mission, notably St. Tikhon of Moscow.

  10. Time to Clean House says

    I am not sure what rock you have been living under. please take no offense. This blatant attempt to deflect attention from the immorality of +Nathaniel at the very time that he is trying to shove down the throat his hand-picked new Auxiliary bishops is a sin.

    What right does ANY bishop have to hand-pick his successors? NONE. That is up to the clergy and faithful under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. A divorced cleric as his successor? Why? Are the pickings that thin in the ROEA?

    The scandals of the Roman Catholic Church that have come to light in the past 10 years did not come out of a vacuum. When the Three Amigos were prancing around Rome, gay clerics [in the Catholic Church] were causing the present problems.

    annoymous per Scorilo, your impotent attempts to cast blame on Bishop Ireinu are pathetic. This man has all the goods on +Nathaniel, he knows it and most faithful in the ROEA know it even if you are too blind to accept it.

    Archbishop Nathaniel, stand aside. You are not beyond reproach.

  11. we should strap all bishops to a lie detector test

    • Perhaps.

      Clearly, something needs to be done, since some of our bishops are behaving as functional atheists, fearing neither God nor Man

      • Michael Bauman says

        Monk James: unfortunately overcoming living as functional atheists is the challenge of our time. It is not surprising that our bishops suffer from it as well.

        If we want better bishops, we have to become better Christians. That simple

        Bishops are not born full grown and holy from some rock somewhere.

        Yes there appears to be a mendacious system that rewards mediocrity at best, but that can be changed too as we strive for greater holiness ourselves with our brothers and sisters closest to us.

        I am fortunate, I know, in having a good bishop, but that same bishop gives credit to the people of his diocese.

        The Orthodox community here in Wichita, Ks used to be riven with strife, jealousy and all kinds of stupid stuff. It is still not perfect by any means, but we have grown as unique parishes and as a community.

        So, as we criticize our bishops, we have to know that the seed of their behaving badly is within our own hearts as well. If we do not do that as we move to make corrections, it will degenerate into scapegoating. Scapegoating is a demonically destructive urge.

        As an outside observer, it seems to be a major problem in the OCA but it is within most jurisdictions to some degree: “if only we got rid of so and so or elected so and so all would be right…” or “since so and so was elected, all is doomed…”

        Lord have mercy.

        • George Michalopulos says

          True to a point, Michael. Still, the office of bishop is a significant one. If a man can’t abide by the dicta that St Paul puts in his Epistles, then they don’t need to be ordained to the diaconate in the first place. Period.

          It’s not that I’m not in sympathy with you –I truly am. But only to a point. If we accept the lower bar (based on our own sinfulness), then the bishops do not need to put on regal airs. Let us take away their regalia and pretensions. Otherwise, let them at least try to be holy. Who knows? By their example, we may yet follow them.

          • Michael Bauman says

            George you mistake my meaning. Bishops should be a cut above but if we raise the standard for everybody we will have more and better candidates.

            Also, I learned a long time ago that if I have a problem with someone the best place to begin the healing is me going to confession.

            As to the regal airs: those are not necessary in any case.

      • Unfortunately, Monk James,this same mindset that you point out is thriving in parts of the GOAA, as well. Perhaps this will cause some of those bishops to take note and stop being the arrogant, self-serving “leaders” in many of our US Communities.

  12. I’ve been living under no rock. I chose not to engage in gossip, slander, and idle talk.

    If you guys have evidence, cough it up, otherwise, hush up.

  13. Time to Clean House says

    If Archbishop Nathaniel wants to retire, then he should just retire and let his former diocese decide who will be their next bishop.

    What is it about some bishops who feel more like kings than bishops? A king will manipulate reality, if necessary, to make sure that his hand-picked is the next king. Not so with bishops, or at least that is what the Canons set forth.

    The very fact that AbN is trying to influence who will be his successor speaks volumes about the man’s narcissistic reality.

    Again, if AbN wants to retire (pray God, hear our prayer), then step down and go away. The ROEA will go on without you, and better for it.

  14. Time to Clean House says

    Michael Stankovich,

    Since you are such good friends with the OCA Sex Tsarina, would you ask her why her Synod bosses still do nothing to deal with the homosexual deviant Gregory Burke? Why a man who married another man can still serve at the Altar of our Lord? There is a complete file on Burke, a full investigation done, its conclusions damning and clear. Yet, he still serves and brings scandal to the Church.

  15. M. Stankovich says

    Time to Clean House,

    Perhaps you would be so kind as to re-read my post in its entirety, as you are – as I predicted – begging me to ask you: “Wasn’t Jonah the Metropolitan when all the facts of this matter – damning & clear – came to light, yet the man continued to “still serve at the Altar of our Lord?” Round & round the mulberry bush… And for the record, I endorsed Julie Dreher as a write-in candidate for Metropolitan honoris causa to replace Jonah for personally going to his home and confronting him to take responsibility and action for such matters because she had the same responsibility to her children. Brava. Your “outrage” strikes me as selective as your memory.

    As to Mrs. Heise, I did not define my relationship with her as “good friend,” and in fact, my contact with her, as a consultant, has only been by phone & electronic media. She is a colleague. I resent her being referred to as the “Sex Czar/Tsarina” as she is a well-trained, experienced, and licensed professional who has taken on an exceptionally complex, sensitive, and “politically charged” position while remaining first and foremost, an advocate and protector of victims of abuse. She is not a prosecutor, a constable, nor a judge. She is a mental health professional and I personally defend & endorse her integrity and professional ethic.

    • Time to Clean House says

      I could care less about Metropolitan Jonah, but you did a nice job of trying to side step my question. I asked a simple question since you have contact with your collague will do something of substance and ask her or not? I know you are not an OCA member, but people are scandalized by his standing at the Altar of our Lord and it does lead some to think that what he did is OK with the Synod.

      As for your resentment of Ms Heise as “Sex Tsarina”, she isn’t so offended as you seem to be. Get over it, Doc!

      Oh, and by the way, Ms. Heise is an “advocate and protector” of ALLEGED victims of abuse. Right?

      • George Michalopulos says

        It’s really sad. And ironic. The office of Sex Czar is probably a good thing in the ideal just like the Inquisition. But just like the Inquisition, it will degenerate (if it hasn’t already) into a prosecutorial office to be used at the whim of the powerful.

      • M. Stankovich says

        Time to Clean House,

        Two thoughts immediately come to mind: I was immediately impressed by a communicative devise I read about recently, if I recall correctly… um yes, the telephone. You would put me to the test, suggesting that I “represent” your point of view and get an answer in your stead? Man up, son. Pick up the phone, use your real name, be civil and not a moron, and ask your question for yourself. You somehow imagine I walked away quietly without making my views known? You would be an idiot. And you are further proof of concept of a running theme: this forum is filled with do-nothing, whining, bitching bêler une chèvre. Take your hat off when you read posts by Fr. Alexander Webster for no other reason than he personally goes directly to the source of the conflict. If it is, in fact, “time to clean house,” your “outrage” is pointless and helps no one. I’ve heard enough of your bitching to last through November.

        As to your second point, it is not as significant to defend Ms.Heise individually per se (though she is certainly worthy of such a defense), but respect for a very difficult, but very necessary position. The moniker “Sex Czar/Tsarina” was fully intended at its inception to a pejorative and offensive. I personally have discussed the role of ORSMA with several bishops – and I have been contacted individually by other bishops regarding similar matters – and it should be no surprise that many do not feel competent to deal with these matters without professional guidance. Disparaging the office based on conjecture and exaggerations helps no one; but again, I fully believe it should be accountable, and to my knowledge, it has no measurable mechanisms that one would find, say, in a common Employee Assistance Program. I would note to Mr. Michalopulos, in no way should my commentary to be interpreted as suggesting that a “law enforcement” approach is or will be used in a manipulative, coercive, or controlling manner. It is an accepted approach by law enforcement when a crime has occurred, and my point was, when a crime has occurred, call the police immediately and cooperate. In my experience, there was always a reported case case to be investigated when an investigation occurred.

        And finally. let’s be clear: as is the case for all mandated reporters everywhere, when a child reports abuse, it is always presumed true until proven differently. Why? The research is clear that a sexually abused child is significantly more likely to deny abuse than offer false report. How do we know this? The widespread proliferation of cell phones with photo & video recording capabilities, perpetrators in possession of DVD’s that include the child, confession of perpetrators of abusing children who have denied abuse, and DNA evidence. Secondly, children rarely retract accusations of sexual abuse unless they are coerced, and this generally occurs from family members dependent upon the perpetrator for financial support (e.g. mother, step-mother, girl-friend of perpetrator, siblings, etc.). There is a fascinating new book published this past July that I just began reading which is a first-ever study of the spouses/significant-other of sex offenders. My point: ORSMA responds to all alleged and confirmed victims of abuse.

        I side-step nothing, son. I do not ask anyone to do something I am not prepared to do myself. And that includes apologizing when I am wrong.

        • Time to Clean House says

          So, in other words…you will side step and do nothing in this case. And who is the moron? And you assume no letters or phone calls have been made. Do you know this personally?

          You are aware, or are you just blowing wind, again, that a full report on Burke was completed. No doubt your friend has a copy of it, has seen it, and sits on it because Burke is still raising the Gifts at the Altar. Why? Because any attempt to move on Burke has been stonewalled. Left as an internal Synod matter. Apparently you are fine with that?

          No outrage yet? Clergy can bugger other men? That’s ok? Apparently so. No wonder you aren’t a member of the OCA, just a defender when it suits you.

          Thanks for nothing. Again.

    • You said you “know her personally” and that you were willing to personally vouch for her integrity. That is a pretty big endosement, going beyond a simple “I have no reason to doubt her integrity.” Any colleague of mine for which I was willing to say that is someone that I would be comfortable picking up the phone and asking, off the record, “what gives?” Of course I would not reveal the contents of that conversation on the internet. I suspect you may have already had that conversation.

      But if her job is strictly restricted to dealing with the victims of clergy sexual misconduct, I don’t see what she would have to do with a case of two clergymen allegedly buggering each other and the bishops who allegedly pal around with them and protect them. Who exactly is the victim? Such a case would be outside her purview.

      The responsibility for this stuff lies with the Synod of Bishops. If the case is as clearly documented and is as well known as has been portrayed on this site, then that means that the members of that Synod are sitting on their hands — for whatever reason. And that includes Metropolitan Jonah, if it happened on his watch.

      Or maybe it isn’t as open and clearly documented as people say. As I have said before to someone else on this site, if you are in the OCA and you are in possession of proof of the grossly immoral actions of a clergyman, you are obligated to make a formal complaint in writing to your bishop, demanding a response. If it is a bishop, it needs to be written to all of the other bishops.

      If you are unwilling to do that, it is your duty to be silent.

      • If one mentions Metropolitan Jonah in relation to the Burke case, one also has to bring up the current locum tenens for not doing anything, along with Fr. Gerasim who is currently the diocesan administrator, Archbishop Nikon, and Archbishop Dmitri.

        • M. Stankovich says

          Actually, one does not have to bring up anything more. All of of your similar comments serve as nothing more than illogical, ludicrous distractions. Do you believe that anywhere else in this world – and in the world to come, for that matter – someone sworn to protect and defend the morals, the health, or the safety of those in their charge could claim, “But neither did those before or after me” as a credible defense?” You obviously have no understanding of the seriousness of the meaning of “oath,”; have never been to a courtroom; or are familiar with the Scripture or the Liturgy, notably St. Basil’s statement that the Lord will return to “render to each man according to his deeds,” and presumably for his irresponsibility, and is one neither helped nor hindered by his predecessor or antecedent. Fr. Schmemann always used the example of the “poor little guy, over-dressed in his best suit, hat in hand, head down, facing the Lord at the Judgment seat and all he had to say was, ‘Pardon me Lord, I am only human.’ And the Lord replied, ‘Who told you this? I created you King to rule over the whole creation, and to share with me the eternal Paradise!'” What will he say? “But those before me did not, and undoubtedly those after me will not. How can you blame me?” Stop these childish attempts to exonerate by going to the schoolyard. Each will answer for themselves.

      • M. Stankovich says


        If this comment is addressed to me, I would note to you that I am bound by an ethic of the “need to know.” I have many, many times on this forum stated that, while I have access to individuals in personal and other capacities in the church whose credibility I openly endorse, and whose integrity I openly defend, I never have picked up the phone to seek information out of “curiosity” or for any reason that was not singly predicated on the “need to know.” In this case, that “need to know” was based on my participation with a specific case with ORSMA. Professionally, I have access to the confidential mental health records of millions of individuals, as I had access to the criminal records of considerably millions more. To do nothing more than spend an idle moment “cruising” records, looking for a neighbor, or looking for a “high-profile” case I heard on the news is not only unethical, but illegal.

        As to your second concern, the role(s) and responsibilities of of the Coordinator is clearly established by the Synod of Bishops itself and can be found on the OCA website if you are not familiar. And finally, I absolutely agree with your position on taking action. Unfortunately, anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of HTML5, and an obscure Greek but profoundly sounding “kabob” of a name, and Mr. Michalopulos’ ear, is bound to raise a little sand, just because… If wishes could be hopes.

      • Time to Clean House says


        There is a full and documented investigative report on Burke and his homosexual marriage (domestic partnership) to be precise, done by the OCA. It leaves no doubt as to the actions and guilt of Burke. Burke admits what he did. There is no question about it. Burke got a doctor’s note saying he was mentally fragile. But using the same excuse in other clergy sex cases with adults was inadmissible and irrelevant to the Synod. Truly a double-standard.

        The questions remain – why has this report been buried by the Synod? Why has the Synod done nothing? Why, in particular, has Archbishop Nathaniel and Archbishop Nikon blocked every attempt to defrock Burke?

        Why has ORSMA not gone public with its outrage over this matter? Is ORSMA even upset? This case is open and shut, yet it continues to be shut up behind a locked door of Synodal contempt.

        • I ask this in all seriousness: what happened when you wrote your OCA bishop a formal (preferably via certified mail or its equivalent that requires his signature) letter of complaint outlining your charges and concerns?

          • Time to Clean House says

            the response……..crickets………….

            i was later told, when I asked, face to face, to mind my own business.

            I hope that answers your sincere question.

  16. It is very sad to read all this notes. People who teach us to forgive does not know how to forgive. Do not bring this dirt to the public.

    How can I tell my kids to forgive when you cannot do that.

    You do not need to speak English to be a good Christian orthodox.

    Father Ephraim from Arizona does not speak English but people from all over the world go to get the blessing from Father Ephraim.

    That what some people have to look into it in our Romanian Episcope.

    Ginditiva ce ar spune Parintele Arcene! Dumnezeu nu ne lasa nici odata! Doamne ajutane pe noi pacatosii.

    Have faith in God.

    • Thomas Barker says

      Timpii sunt rele pentru că oamenii sunt rele. Pentru vremurile bune, oamenii trebuie să devină bun. Da. Doamne ajutane pe noi pacatosii.

  17. seeingthrough says

    Now is the time to stand up for the faith in small circle, large, extra large America. Europe, all the continents and keep the faith. If we don’t we all loose just like Sodomah and Gomorah. Evil is evil and God is God! Everyone of us have the right to choose which side you are on.
    May God bless us all!
    And don’t live under a rock!!!!!

    • Subdn Constantin says

      Yes, you are right…. We do all have choices. May God Bless us all! Maybe you should rethink some of yours.
      But enough of the rock comments…. We all don’t have access to that many rocks…. too many like you are collecting them to throw at others. Come out from under your rock! If you have something to say, don’t hide behind some anonymous name!

  18. Estonian Slovak says

    Sorry to pile on more bad news, but an obituary in the Cleveland Plain Dealer dated June 4th of the late John Hategan, son of the late Fr. Vasile Hategan reveals that a grandson of Fr.Vasile may be in a “marriage” like the Stokoe-Brown duo. While this is no reflection on the late Fr.Vasile,who was a prominent priest of the ROEA,it does reflect the new attitude of society. I mean, when a man named James has as a significant other named Steven, what are the odds that we are speaking about a heterosexual couple?
    This old hunky is too technologically chalenged to provide a link and I didn’t check the ROEA website, I was afraid of what l might find there.

  19. Sane rugam pt prea sfimtitul parinte si episcop IRINEU SI PT Toti celal….

  20. Gail Sheppard says

    Even those whom you deem as “scoundrels” can do God’s will, with God’s grace.

    There a was a time when I learned that Metropolitan Philip was considering excommunicating me.

    Archbishop Nathaniel had a plan to keep me in the Church.

    Surely, that counts for something.

    It did for me.

  21. the romanian says

    The thing that nobody seems to consider is that a BISHOP is investigated for “sexual misconduct”, being that a bishop should not have any sexual conduct, he should be charged for “sexual conduct” since any sexual conduct is against his vows as a monk and bishop of the Orthodox Church.

    That’s a lot to take in for some but I think that investigations like this could be made as follows: for sexual conduct if the bishop is allegedly having an affair with a woman, and sexual misconduct if he is accused of one with men (or much much worse, underage men/women).

    What’s intriguing is that a lot of people accuse +Nathaniel now, as if he was the one investigated, it is a classic maneuver when it comes to serious accusations, to go against the person who could be behind it and attack that person. I think this is not the correct way to look at things.

    Some of the worst comments here were stating that +Nathaniel has nothing to gain from this scandal, so he should have avoided it. That’s the worst kind of advice, hiding the truth. I assume all people writing this comments are orthodox, and thus I wonder how come some of them have little to do with the orthodox vision of life.

  22. nathanail is a angel ?

    • Formerly ROEA says

      Dear “romanian,”

      If you are referring to my comment above, please keep it in the context in which it was written. This discussion is about “Romanians playing hardball,” in other words, the particular timing of this accusation/allegation/investigation, and the ramifications it would appear to have for the Convocation to elect new bishops for the ROEA. It is very hard indeed to see this development, at this moment, as anything other than political hardball.

      • the romanian says

        Dear “formerly ROEA”

        It could seem like this can’t be a coincidence, but the fact remains that the OCA has made an investigation, and not +Nathaniel, he merely took action according to the gravity of the accusation. If Irineu is proven not-guilty you are right (what do you think are the odds of that happening?) otherwise hardball or not, any sexual conduct/misconduct from a Bishop needs to come to light and he has to take responsibility for his actions.

        Read the fine print on “However, since this investigation is being made known to others by His Grace Irineu, the Episcopate decided to make a general public announcement about this matter”

        I think Irineu was trying to gain people on his side on this, but it backfired since after it was made public on the website, it basically finished his career.

    • seeingthrough says

      Nathanail is an angel in Heaven, and only that one!!! not this nathaniel!!

      GOOD NEWS!!!
      Nathaniel and his cronies lost the battle, but not the war yet!
      At the congress held in Cleveland this weekend the single motion passed was to write to Romanian Archdiocese here in USA to give a reason why they don’t want to unite.
      Because Nathaniel shifted the blame on the other side of the Romanians, when he did not want to unite and form the Romanian Orthodox “Metropolia” in USA and Canada. The congress responded that they want to have those reasons in writing from AB Nicolae Condrea. And the letter has to be sent in the name of this congress and the answer must be given to the congress by their congress. ( I have to mentioned here that the motion to unite and formed the Romanian Metropolia was passed by ROEA congress years ago and Nathaniel tried to kill it.)
      Regarding to Bishop Irineu, the priests in the congress wrote a letter of support and sent to him and OCA. It was read in the congress and approved.

      Coming to the election of the new two cronies, the priests left the congress and the floor and there was no quorum for it. Nathaniel wants to continue and in 30 days to have a special congress for election of his cronies
      now with a less number 84-85 for quorum with the intention and trick to win.
      The Romanian priests in USA have a accent in speaking the English language but not thinking. Nathaniel and his c. seems to be vice-versa.
      God and His Mother don’t sleep and continue to work!!!

      This coming Wednesday and Thursday B Irineu will be investigated by Sex Tsarina at Syosset.
      No matter how Irineu will be found by them he was elected by ROEA Congress and only the congress can remove him.
      For us it don’t matter, he is our bishop and we go on.
      The Romanian Patriarchate won’t recognize their decision anyhow, even if they “defrocked” him
      The sword always has two edges but watch out!!!

      Soon an open letter addressed to Nathaniel will be mailed out to all the Romanian and the Romanian new media here and in Europe.

      We already took the gloves off.

      • anonymus per Scorilo says

        At the congress held in Cleveland this weekend the single motion passed was to write to Romanian Archdiocese here in USA to give a reason why they don’t want to unite.

        The reason should be pretty obvious: the Patriarchate priests outside Romania receive from the Romanian state a monthly support of about 300 $. The proposed statutes of the “new and improved Romanian Mitropolia” state clearly that it is not to have any financial ties to anyone. Hence by uniting with the ROEA Abp. Nicolae would deprive his meagerly-paid priests of this financial support.

        • Time to Clean House says

          anonymus per Scorilo,
          what a spinmeister you are. meagerly-paid priests? what about the scores of ROEA clergy who have to work outside their parishes because their ROEA parishes can’t pay them a living salary? Come on, be honest.

          Are you going to skip over the fact that +Nathaniel was humiliated in his attempts to shove his hand-picked vicar bishops? That there was not a quorum to hold the consideration for an election? That the lack of a quorum was because priests walked out, or didn’t show up for the sham election?

          Are you going to skip over the fact that Romanian clergy are supporting Ireinu and think that the timing of the so-called ORSMA investigation has +N fingerprints all over it?

          +Nathaniel exposed himself with his ham handed attempts and showed himself to be more like a Roman trained cleric and not a Orthodox one. His loss, hopefully will be the ROEA’s gain.

          Retire, Archbishop Nathaniel and let the ROEA decide who your successor is. It is NOT your responsibility. No bishop has the right to make that decision and certainly not you.

          • anonymus per Scorilo says

            The whole “humiliation” of +Nathaniel by the delegates who walked off reminds me of the Japanese soldiers who were still fighting in the Indochina after the Americans dropped the atomic bomb. The battle is over, they are just too slow to realize it and too bitter for losing it.

            The main thing that kept people fighting in +Irineu’s camp, against Fr. Joseph Morris and now against the proposed auxiliary bishops, were the promises and hope that once +Irineu becomes ruling bishop they will get big fat parishes or other advantages. The rest of the stuff, about being pro-romanian, anti-american is just baloney that has been useful to get some of the more pure-hearted and naive Romanian nationalist priests in their ranks.

            Now that the chance of +Irineu becoming ruling bishop has become zero, these people are about to realize that all these promises are just valueless paper currency. Of course it is a rather painful realization, and their bitterness is visible. However, they will soon realize that they have nothing to gain by continuing this fight. And the Romanian nationalist priests will also realize that they have been manipulated into fighting the wrong fight.

            • Time to Clean House says

              anonymus per Scorilo,

              That is a very flimsy response, based on pure speculation and actually a desperate hope. Desperate because do you really believe that +Nathaniel will miraculously bring the ROEA together? He hasn’t done it yet and I don’t see him somehow now doing so.

              The ROEA is a broken mess and the best thing for the diocese is for +Nathaniel to retire and let the ROEA decide who their next bishop will be. You may be right that it won’t be +Irineu, +Nathaniel saw to that a decade ago when he put him in the dog house, but let’s be honest, things have not improved since then and today we have a seriously fractured diocese. That is failed leadership.

      • An American Romainian says

        I was there in Cleveland and “seeingthrough” should get their facts straight. First, there were not enough delegates at the congress in general to make a 2/3 quorum. The childish “walkout” of a handful of priests made no difference whatsoever. Second, the unification topic was clearly explained in Detroit at a congress a couple years ago…..The Romanian Metropolia was asked on numerous occasions to provide some very basic financial statements to the ROEA so their situation could be reviewed. They were either unwilling or unable to comply. The responsibility of the ROEA Episcopate Council asking for this information is to ensure all facts are discovered before making any recommendation to congress delegates who would be required to vote on such matters. They were performing their due diligence as their oath of office requires. The ROEA is a significantly larger organization in the US than the Romanain Metropolia Episcopate and by not performing its’ due diligence, would be putting itself at significant risk by blindly agreeing to this unification. The ROEA was simply asking to review what, as a 503 charitable organization the the Romanian Metropolia is in the US, they should be generating anyway per the IRS. It is a fact that they are violating these rules for charitable organizations. Additionally, there have been many rumors and allegations regarding the churches and clergy in the US Romanian Metropolia churches receiving support that can be tied directly to the Romanian government. THIS IS ILLEGAL. The ROEA was smart to end the discussion until these basic financial reports are provided. There is no need to ask the Romanian Metropolia what their intentions are. We already know and the priests who were pushing for this “letter” asking are ignorant fools who refuse to accept that the Romanian Metropolia is corrupt and will simply pilfer & destroy what the ROEA has worked decades to build & preserve. Irineu is in favor of blind unification with no regard for the ramifications it could bring to the ROEA, his loyalty is clearly to the Romanian Metropolia. The two candidates that were offered are both fine individuals who I have personally known their whole lives. Both have very clear heads and would do what is right for the ROEA. They are not influenced by anyone except the Lord.

        All of you who are speaking badly about the ROEA and its’ leadership from the outside should really stop all the speculation, none of you know the facts. As a person who has been a faithful of the ROEA for 52 years and involved in many of its’ organizations for 4 decades, I do know the facts.

  23. seeingthrough says

    anonymus per Scorilo

    Even the priests are receiving a salary from the Romanian Patriarchate ?!? IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS!!!
    But what you say is a BIG LIE.
    Attorney Michael Khoury of Detroit was sent to ROAA to verify their financial records, expressly to see that and he found nothing. When he reported back to Nathaniel, ABN broke his report and asked him to change it. He refused and he gave up his position. Than Nathaniel re-write the report and lied to his people and to the congress. (By the way I talked to Atty. M C personal). Here is his phone # 248-727-1414.
    But scorilo stop kissing… a…

    • Subdn Constantin says

      Once again….. you truly have no idea of the facts.
      And again, ….. you refuse to let yourself be known.
      Lord have mercy!

  24. Ashley Nevins says

    Circular without solution for the problem being the solution. If you cannot identify the source cause of why and how it is circular without solution it will remain circular without solution. No one is correctly identifying why and how it is circular without solution and so it is going to remain circular without solution and you can expect more of this as your church future in America.

    Who among you can correctly identify the source cause and therefore provide the solution? No one has been able to provide a solution to the systemically corrupt state of the OCA. If you deny the source cause of the problem you will deny your church the solution and that is why no solution to the OCA corruption problem has been found.

    Orthodox, the problem is not the solution unless you want more problems. When the problem becomes the solution that is pointing to another problem. What is that other problem? Hint, the systemically corrupt hierarchy is a symptom of other problem. The symptom is not the cause. The symptom points to the cause. Get that backwards and you will not find solution.

    A systemic problem points to a structural problem. The structure creates the system. The structure and system of God is not corrupt. Christ plus something else corrupts. Christ alone is not corrupt. The plus something else is not God and if you believe it is then your church will remain corrupt.

    Christ centered Church growth and relevancy development is based upon Christ in the Gospels and the NT. They are its foundation. Get the foundation wrong and it will all go wrong. All reasons for church growth and relevancy development and what can kill them dead are found with Christ in the Gospels and in the NT.

    I have seen several OCA solutions over the years and not a one of them has worked. They have not worked because they have not identified the problem and therefore the solution is misidentified and fails. The solution failure leads to a circular without solution church death spiral and that leads to discouragement, despair and disillusionment that does not raise Christ and the church up, but instead only pushes them down.

    Orthodox, what is pushing your church down? Answer that question correctly and then you will find the correct solution.

    The hierarchy looks like the problem but what props them up is the problem. Who and what props their corruption up?

    • M. Stankovich says

      Mr. Nevins,

      You clearly do not understand the message of the Scripture, nor its context in the Tradition of the Church. The Church does not rely, nor has it ever relied on the individual “holiness” of its bishops, it’s clergy, nor its monastics for its Holiness, nor, ultimately, it’s direction. Hint, centuries ago our Father John Chrysostom fortified our hearts with the message, “For forty years, the Jews wandered, lost in the desert. But rejoice. For you are no longer led by Moses, but by Jesus Christ.” Further, what appears a “failure to thrive” – “discouragement, despair, disillusionment that does not raise Christ up” – is a projection of your own need to blame someone or something for your own despair, for the fact is, even in its worst manifestations; even in its worst exhibitions of the corruption and sinfulness “men in robes” laid hold of it, yet it remained the inextinguishable “light of the world” and Spotless Bride of the Only-begotten Son of God. No one, Mr. Nevis, can contain the Uncontainable Energy of God our Father; and no one, be a bishop, or a priest , or the Monk Erphraim himself shall be fool enough to presume to direct the All-Holy Spirit Who goes wherevere He wishes. Your observations, Mr. Nevis, are shallow & myopic, useless to those who open their hearts to the last and chosen keepers of the Truth entrusted to us by the Lord Himself, to stand against a world he warns, “If they hate you, it is because they hated me before you.” (Jn. 15:16) Take your own advice: your problem is not the solution, unless you want more problems. Personally, I tire of your problems with no attempt at solutions but blaming me.

      • Daniel E Fall says

        I would like to mention that many people spend their lives looking for “the problem” when in fact life can be full of problems or solutions depending on one’s state of mind.

        Yesterday, a glass in the kitchen got cookie crumbs cooked onto it in the dishwasher. This was early in the day. The entire day for me was full of things that were off. Lunch had something rotten in it and I had to spit it out. The second choice for lunch wasn’t tasty and gave me a gut ache. Other things just kept going wrong.

        Normally, I am not so negative, but yesterday I was.

        Ashley-today will be a better day, but it can’t be for you unless you stop blaming others.

        The church is not ideal, but none are, I assure you. The constant reflection on the failings of the church diminish its good. Maybe that is your goal.

        What is your goal?

        Frankly, I think most of us understand your goal. Is it to raise up the Orthodox Church, or more broadly Christ’s Church? It does not seem so. In fact-it seems just the opposite…like you are eager to point out its flaws.

        My goal, by the way, is/was balance and excuses. I originally blogged on ocanews to offer accounting perspective. Now here when I see wrong and perhaps for an excuse to no longer attend-although it is only an excuse. My reasons are truly not all that great-some altruism aside. I am not riding a high horse. According to Orthodox folk, I have excommuned myself. I see it differently, but I digress.

        But Ashley-you are not offering altruism. You are only condemning. If you think it is altruistic to suggest the Orthodox church not have a hierarchy, well, you get a zero on the persuasion exam. Obviously, you reflect on King Ephraim, but you help noone.

        So, what is your goal Nevins?
        What is your goal?

        I think you are coming here and showing us flaws in the church in a twisted notion of altruism or revenge. I can’t blame you for being disgusted with Ephraim, but you are not helping even yourself with your commentary. At some point, you need to recognize the will of men.

        If your will is to condemn Orthodoxy, then you should be banned. If your will is healing, then listen and understand men have will-not just bishops and wacky clergyfolk(there are plenty-sorry), but our children.

        What is your goal?

        By your blogging on the subject of frontal suture and the bizarre notions of some of those aforementioned wacky clergy. I say your goal is to mercilessly point out every flaw of Orthodoxy as revenge.

        The church is not without wackiness. My wife doesn’t like the thrice repetition. It is a bit much.

        Revenge will destroy you Nevins.

        Are they worthy of another man twisting his will?

        I say you should wash your hands of them and you should be banned from this site, but not for my sake.

        For your own.

  25. anonymus per Scorilo says

    The Romanian Patriarchate won’t recognize their decision anyhow, even if they “defrocked” him

    Come on, what planet are you leaving on ? The Romanians have dumped +Irineu as soon as the news about his investigation got in the Romanian press and prime-time TV:

    Since most of the babushkas watching TV in Romania have no idea about the difference between the Romanian Patriarchate and the ROEA, this “sexgate” is producing a huge amount of PR damage, which they really cannot afford right now. I am pretty sure that if they could, they would have defrocked +Irineu immediately and without a trial (like they did a few years ago to Fr. Daniil Corogeanu when the PR damage got out of control), and I would not be surprised if they will volunteer to send a few bishops to get the number to 12.

    Most likely the line Bucharest will be puting out right now will be that they knew all along about his propensities, that they did not elect him bishop because of them, that they warned Abp. Nathaniel about it and he ignored them, so it is all his fault.

    The idea that they would have anything to do with +Irineu if he is condemned is just preposterous.

  26. Formerly ROEA says

    Brrethren, it is astonishing that two bald lies are being promulgated here. (1) ROAA priests do not receive financial support from the Patriarchate. Romanian priests in the diaspora on other continents do, but not here. (2) The ROAA did not break off the unification talks, for that or any other reason. Archbishop Nathaniel did that singlehandedly.

    • anonymus per Scorilo says

      Romanian priests in the diaspora on other continents do, but not here.

      I am sorry, I did not know that 🙁

      I understood from the Romanian government announcement a few years ago when this whole thing began that all the Romanian Patriarchate priests outside Romania are included. It said nowhere they were making an exception for North America.

  27. Formerly ROEA says

    The problem in the ROEA, in my humble opinion, is a clash of sociology and politics–it is the clash between the 2nd and 3rd generations of Romanian immigrants, who hold the power in the ROEA and consider themselves Americans first and Romanians second, and the new generation of Romanian-born immigrants, for whom Americanization is a grinding and grueling process from which they need to find some relief, at least in the Church. If Archbishop Nathaniel would let the Romanian-born parishes realign themselves with the Romanian Patriarchate (he will not; he will confiscate their property), and allow the 2nd and 3rd generation ROEA to dissolve itself into the OCA, then we could move ahead with the problem of how the Episcopal Assembly will organize itself in the United States so as to accommodate both regional bishops and ethnic ministry needs. Let it go! Dissolve the ROEA! Get pro-active, OCA! … Sadly, this is not about Bishop Irineu, it is about what he represents and empowers in the ROEA. If indeed there is a sexual misconduct case against him, it is not going to be something that just suddenly appeared in the last few weeks or months… This is about a vision for the ROEA that Archbishop Nathaniel inherited from Archbishop Valerian… and one that became obsolete in 1989. Time for a new vision.

  28. Subdn Constantin says

    I am so amazed at the false facts you put forth.
    Lord have mercy on all!

  29. seeingthrough says

    GOOD NEWS !!!
    The investigation committee from OCA finished their investigation and found the complains against +Irineu to be false and they are in the process to dismiss the case. In two weeks will see the official result. Nathaniel and his cronies should lick their spit and eat their words.
    Nathaniel’s vision is 0. He is too stupid to have a positive vision for others. But he know how to steal, cheat and lie.
    Nothing will hide forever and the truth will be revealed. He will not be buried at Vatra!!! and he will be investigated by IRS and be defrocked for SIMONIA, ARGHIROFILIA…being mason etc.
    When +Irineu will open the PANDORA BOX then you’ll see the American “circus” .
    The one who laugh last, laugh best !

  30. Mihail Stanescu says

    Looks like we are back in the Clinton era.
    Nobody talks about the accusations ( or very little), the accusers or the supposed victims if that is the case.
    We talk about the persons that have the responsibility to looks at the facts.
    Like in any others communities may be some problems, misunderstandings or sometimes not very clear cut decisions. Yes we have to discuss/debate them on their merit not to relate the with +Irineu.
    What this side discussions have to do with the subject. We have to look later at the conclusion of the investigation/audit look at the presented facts and then judge if this is a case of falls accusations.

  31. I must have been asleep when it was announced by the OCA that the Director of ORSMA is His Beatitude, Met. Tikhon’s niece. Has this been shared here George?

    • George Michalopulos says

      I didn’t know this. Interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.

    • Are you referring to Mrs. Cindy Heise, LMSW ?

      The OCA’s web site says the following:

      “Office of Review of Sexual Misconduct Allegations (ORSMA)

      The Office of Review of Sexual Misconduct Allegations is responsible for assisting the Holy Synod of Bishops and the Church with matters concerning allegations of sexual misconduct. The Office shall be under the authority of the Office of the Metropolitan, who shall report to the Holy Synod of Bishops. ORSMA shall be supervised on a day-to-day basis by the Chancellor of the Orthodox Church in America.

      Contact Information
      Archpriest John A. Jillions
      Phone: (516) 922-0550 ext. 130

      Mrs. Cindy Heise, LMSW
      Phone: (516) 922-0931

      Just keeping the record straight. 🙂

      • Regarding the negative votes, what exactly is the matter with you people? Don’t like to face facts that contradict your prejudices and vile motivations?

  32. Adevar si Dreptate says

    Conform dreptului canonic bisericesc, caterisirea înseamnă luarea tuturor drepturilor de a sluji vreo lucrare sfinţitoare a Bisericii şi trecerea vinovatului în rândul mirenilor (Can. 27, Cartagina). Sentinţa de caterisire a unui preot sau diacon trebuie dată de un Sinod local, fie cât de mic (3-4 episcopi şi câţiva preoţi), iar dacă vina clericului respectiv este una vădită şi clară, atunci el poate fi caterisit doar de episcopul său, dar numai în cazuri extreme. Arhiereii se caterisesc însă de întreg Sinodul din care fac parte (4 Antiohia; 20 Cartigina). Caterisirea este definitivă şi pentru totdeauna.

    • Mark E. Fisus says

      You’re in America, speak American. Go back to Mexico.

      Oh you’re Romanian? That’s okay then, you’re European, so George Michalopulos says you can stay.

      • Speak American? And which would you have us speak? Powhaten, Iroquois, Sioux or Cherokee? Oh! you meant English? Go back to England, then.

        • George Michalopulos says

          And those who try to impose a Spanish language regime on us can go back to Spain!

          • Estonian Slovak says

            Well, George, if Franco were still in charge, I’D go back to Spain!

          • Or most of the American hemishpere. Remember, America is not a country, it is an entire hemisphere.

            • Pdn Brian Patrick Mitchell says

              Show me a map with the name “America” written across the whole Western hemisphere. You can’t find one.

              And no matter where you go, if you tell people you’re an “American” from “America,” they will all understand that you are from the United States — the only country in the world that includes “America” as part of its name.

        • Pdn Brian Patrick Mitchell says

          “American” is a European term, rarely if ever applied to the indigenous peoples of “America,” who most certainly did not call themselves “Americans.” Only the settlers and their descendants of the English colonies of North America applied the term to themselves, and all the world has followed their usage.

          • You are evading the question. The question was “So, North America is the US? What about Canada and Mexico?”

          • Oh? Explain why “all the world” refers to every country from Colombia to Chile as “Latin America.”

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              it’s wise to completely avoid the phrase, “all the world.” Remember Caesar’s ludicrous decree that “all th world” should be taxed, when only the lands of the tiny GrecoRoman Empire could be taxed? And most of Europe, the vast Persian Empire, China, Japan, Australia, most of Africa and all the Americas were totally NOT TO BE TAXED! Most of the world then had never heard of GOD, Rome, Greece, or Israel. Going out into “all the world,” likewise, did not mean what it means today. Q.E.D.

            • When anyone, anywhere in the world says “America” in the singular and without an adjective like “North” or “Latin,” there is a 99% or greater chance that they are referring to the USA, just like Americans in the Cold War said “Russia” when the whole of the Soviet Union (if not the whole Warsaw Pact) was meant. And the “English” in the 19th c. included Scots and Welsh for vast majority of the world.

              • Not in Latin América or even North .América,outside of the US. Face it, the use of “America ” by the US is simply an effort to promote “Manifest Destiny.”

                • Sorry, but while some outside the US might not themselves reach first for the word “America” to refer to the US, rest assured that if someone (regardless of their national origin) does say “America” — in the singular and without an adjective — there is no mistake about what is being referred to. You are being pedantic and tendentious. It is completely legitimate to say that you think that no-one should refer to the US as “America,” but it is completely silly to claim that no-one but Americans know what “America” refers to when and if someone uses the term.

                  • Outside of the US, most people refer to the hemishpere as “las Américas.” You are the one who is being narrow and tendentious.

                    • “…rest assured that if someone (regardless of their national origin) does say “America” — in the singular and without an adjective — there is no mistake about what is being referred to.”

                      I quote myself because there is no point trying to say it another way. You evade responding because you know there is no answer.

                      Nice to know there is still a thread that I can participate in, having having a reasonable expectation that my comment won’t drop inot moderation purgatory forever. (Ashley Nevins doesn’t know how good he has it.)

    • Thomas Barker says

      Caterisirea este definitivă şi pentru totdeauna.

      pentru totdeauna … Acesta este un timp foarte lung. Prin urmare, avem nevoie de preoți și episcopi care sunt oameni buni.

    • Кто все эти иностранцы? {вставь смайлик}

  33. seeingthrough says

    Adevar si Dreptate

    “In Roma faci ca-n Roma” In USA you speak English, if you know it, if you don’t please keep silent, or wait si nu mai sufla in fund la nimeni, ca-ti sar “taratele” in ochi.
    A Romanian “canonist” in USA greased and corrupted is a piece of sh…. in front of God and in the church. There are priests who know the canon laws better than the “canonists”,made over night, don’t forget it.
    “Daca tace-i filizof ramaneai”, chiar daca traiesti la New York. Ar fi bine sa vi se taie buricul mai intai si dupa aceia sa vorbiti.
    Those who rise againts the parents end up in the Chedron Valley.

  34. Meanwhile, amongst the Antiochians:

    Might be a Monomakhos story here. As I read this, AOCNA is saying that they are not interested in a jurisdictionally united American Church at this time. Also, this line caught my eye:

    “In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs.”

    I’m not sure exactly what this means. However, I wonder if this is not a call to have an elected chairman of the AB rather than have the senior hierarch of the GOAA be its automatic head. It depends on how literally you take “all the officers” and exactly what the phrase “sit in order of the diptychs” means. Are they saying status as officers is a separate matter from honor of place in the seating arrangement?

    • George Michalopulos says

      For what it’s worth, Met Joseph did not show up for the latest confab. Looks like the EAUSA is headed to SCOBAblivion.

      It’s sad in a way, as Alexei Krindatch has done remarkable work. Oh well, his research can be dusted off by more serious bishops in the future.

      • anonymus per Scorilo says

        It is just Antioch pay-back after the Qatar affair, the EP played more or less openly on the side of Jerusalem and now Antioch is messing up their North-American game. Very smartly played 🙂

    • TimR. Mortiss says

      Last time a guy called me a diptych, I knocked his block off. Both of them…..

  35. Michael Woerl says

    The “Qatar affair:” Orthodox Jurisdiction determined by Islamic political considerations, period.
    And the Antiochians aren’t backing off the SCOBA retread in retaliation, but have a genuine concern: a large part of the Patriarchate of Antioch’s funding comes from Antiochian parishes in Canada, the US, and Australia. Which a Constantinople run autonomous Church in North America and Australia (where the ‘Assemblies of Bishops’ also exist) would be the death knell for the Patriarchate of Antioch. Unless, of course, the Antiochian parishes would want to pay Damascus AND Istanbul. I have no idea how much is forwarded to Damascus; and have heard “association” with Istanbul ain’t cheap.
    As far as the Romanian “problem:” Doamne ajuta! Romanians I know are much, much, much more traditional than the OCA. They revere their Elders-Justin Parvu, Cleopa Ilie, Paisie Olaru, Adrian Fageteanu, George Calciu … who all spoke out forcefully against Ecumenism. And while the Patriarchate is “involved,” let’s just say Patriarch Daniel would not win any popularity awards. Even Bucharest is not as over the top as the OCA in that regard. Meletios Metaxakis started the jurisdictional sweepstakes here. Let the Phanar pay the price. No Phanar Show here, thanks! And anybody who throws a wrench in the gears of Phanar World Domination is OK by me! Double, since the Pope wants it as much as the Phanar does!

  36. Michael Woerl says

    Эти иностранцы быть Румынии. Из того, что я знаю, румын. Жаль, что они не имеют больше «вход» в формировании православия в Северной Америке. Может быть меньше разногласий, больше мира.

    • Perhaps, Michael,

      However, even the Romanians are split here. Nonetheless, I’ve always found them to be agreeable people.

  37. Michael Woerl says

    Nu este Google Translate un lucru minunat! Și, da, Herr Doktor, trei posturi la rând. Da-ma in judecata! ???

  38. ion de romania says

    honestly, I think this was a bad move of bishop Nathaniel. No matter the intentions, these unfounded accusations will finally lead to inner fights and implosion of all good things created in many years within the Romanian Orthodox Church.
    As always, there are many views avaialble for same issue. While most people tend to blame bishop Irineu due to last accusations because of how media presents all problems, I prefer to look on his achievements within same feeling of appreciation of all that he did for the Romanian Community in USA before concluding in absence of any proof.
    I would remind to everyone before judging the case to have into considering the following facts:
    – Accusations launched with high coincidence just before important elections of new bishop within ROEA which priests were supposed to choose from 2 candidates. His Grace, bishop Irineu Duvlea would have been a serious burden on the way to ascension of any who might have won ellections because of his popularity in most Romanian communities and parishes;
    – His Grace’s preoccupation for many years to maintain Romanian tradition and language within churches, always commented by the staff in Romanian Vatra as an exaggerate measure of preservation in a world with heterogeneous nations, such is USA;
    – Intention to be with all Romanian Churches under the protection of the Romanian Orthodox Church as a single united Church in respect for the Old Cristian tradition Romania;
    – Not lastly, he was very appreciated by most of priests and parishioners for above ideals, intentions and for succeeding in raising the Holy Ascension Monastery in Clinton, MI where his sustained efforts along with the donators who came to help still at His Grace calling gave birth to a very nice, heavenly place, perfect to relax one’s soul;
    This is why, I ask you all to reconsider your thoughts in this matter – but not with first cognitive impulse which could be inspired by a formal media message containing the key words “… sexual misconduct…” and then “…of a high ranked bishop…”. But also considering that: there’s no victim name or other details, there’s no evidence (film, pictures, recordings…);
    To me – is mostly like someone wants to have this guy out of the game in a moment when it is believed that he started to be an obstacle for higher interests such as promoting services in English language during the Divine Liturgy within Romanian Churches all over USA.
    But what is USA – isn’t it formed by lots of immigrants which kept their traditions in a new land of freedom, even for more than two hundred years?
    I pray God to let the truth come into light despite this frivolous accusations already affected the Romanian community, our Monastery and wounded us all!
    In the end, I would like to tell you shortly about His Grace that in 2012 I visited him to the Romanian Monastery in Clinton, MI. Everyone there made last preparations before the Ascension of the Lord Feast expecting more than 800 people to join the event. My wife called me and told me that back in Romania she felt very bad due to an unexpected back pain without being able to stand, but only stay in bed. She said that last two days she couldn’t get up from bed. I was worried being so far from home and knowing she cannot handle the two children we have in her condition. Therefore, I told everything to His Grace Irineu and he told me to believe and that he will pray for her in the evening, few hours later, he told me to relax that he went to the Altar of the Church and mentioned my wife in his prayers! Second day when I woke up I found my wife’s message on the phone that when she woke up in same morning (8 hours earlier – time difference ) she didn’t feel anything wrong with her back just like that.
    Some may call this coincidence – I will always consider that God hear us better when somebody prays for his friends.
    We must now remember the word of the Gospel and how our Saviour was treated when He came in peace to help us: The blind man who was so from his birth was questioned by the synedrion about his miraculous healing and in regard to One claimed to have done such a deed- Christ : “we know this man is a sinner!”. But he told them very sincerely: “….I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”( John 9:25)

  39. anonymus per Scorilo says

    But what is USA – isn’t it formed by lots of immigrants which kept their traditions in a new land of freedom, even for more than two hundred years?

    Romanians lose their traditions and language much faster than either Greeks or Russians. In 2 generations less than 1% of the descendants of those who formed any random Romanian church in the US and Canada remain in the church. Those are hard facts. And if one ignores them and continue the failed pastoral policies of the previous generations that have brought to this (we are romanians, and we do not want english in the church, only romanian traditions and language !!!) it may be good to remember the parable of the Talents, and think of what would the Lord say to one who got 100 talents and only returned one to Him, and how they would answer back.

  40. seengthrough says

    Recently, I have seen the monastery in Clinton MI, a miracle in USA for the short time Bishop Irineu have built it. And it was done by “honkeys” who are not educated and speak no english. lol. Than I stopped at Fr. Carstea in Troy MI. another miracle done by another “honkee”
    1% is better than O% from american born isn’t that right ???
    Scorillo you are an idiot!!! Words are a p.o.s. action remain, what are you leaving behind beside stupidity???
    God have mercy on you!!!