Archbishop Job (Getcha): Phanar Did Not Recognize UOC KP and UAOC
Filaret and Makariy were returned to the bosom of Ecumenical Church, but they were not recognized as primates of church structures, cleared up Archbishop Job (Getcha).
(You mean clear as mud? –editor)
The Synod of the Church of Constantinople did not legitimize the Kiev “patriarchate” and the UAOC. This was stated by the representative of the Ecumenical Patriarchate to the World Council of Churches, Archbishop Job (Getcha) of Telmessos in an interview with the BBC.
“We did not recognize Filaret and Makariy as primates of their churches, we did not say that the UOC KP or the UAOC are legitimate because it would be very inconsistent: it would mean that we recognized two parallel church structures on par with the third canonical structure, which would be the Moscow Patriarchate,” said the Phanar’s hierarch.
(So the schismatics got played –editor.)
Archbishop Job also clarified that “these bishops were reinstated to their hierarchical rank in the bosom of the Universal Church.” At the same time, the hierarch of Phanar failed to mention that the head of the UAOC, Makariy Maletich, could not be reinstated to the status of bishop, because at the time of his excommunication he was a priest. The “ordination” of Maletich to the rank of “bishop” took place only in 1996 in the structure of the UAOC, unrecognized by Constantinople itself.
According to the official communique of Phanar, the hierarchs of the Church of Constantinople decided to canonically reinstate Filaret Denisenko and Makariy Maletich “to their hierarchical or priestly rank”. Andreas Ludaros, editor-in-chief of the Greek Orthodoxia.info website, stated that there was no hint of recognition of the Kiev “patriarchate” in the text of the Phanar’s decision as for removal of the anathema.
(Confused? So am I.)
http://spzh.news/en/news/57234-fanar-ne-priznaval-upc-kp-i-uapc–arkhijepiskop-iov-gecha
It’s important to know who these players are: this Archbishop Job (Getcha…. or as I think is much more appropriate: Archbishop Gotcha!) was the former Bishop of the EP’s rue Daru jurisdiction in Western Europe who was fired/removed from that bishop position in 2015 because he was so terrible. Even the St Sergius Institute folks in Paris couldn’t stand him. Apparently he was nasty and terrible to his flock (big surprise, given his current machinations). Back in the days when he still had some sanity, thank God that the Patriarch of Constantinople removed Bishop Gotcha! from the rue Daru jurisdiction.
(The rue Daru jurisdiction is the exarchate of the Russian Orthodox in Western Europe who back in the 1940s (Metropolitan Evlogy’s jurisdiction) did not think that either ROCOR or the Moscow Patriarchate was right for them, so they formed their own jurisdiction of Russian Churches in Western Europe and were received under the Church of Constantinople. Their cathedral church is the St Alexander Nevksy Sobor on the rue Daru in Paris… a beautiful cathedral that is a must-visit if one is ever in Paris, even with all this schism mess).
Thus, with this Constantinople looniness and heresy, there is now an entire exarchate of Russian churches in Western Europe that are out of communion with the Church in Russia. I guess this is one way for the rue Daru jurisdiction to come to its rightful end, since it’s been an anomaly all along … all the Russian churches in the rue Daru exarchate need to now leave it and return to their rightful home in the Church of Russia.
Archbishop Gotcha! is a nationalist Ukrainian from Canada, from the same parts as the UOCC bishop Ilarion that the Patriarch of Constantinople sent a month or two ago to supplant the long-suffering Metropolitan Onuphry’s church in Kiev. Remember that the UOCC (Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada) has deep roots in Ukrainian neo-Nazi, anti-Russian nationalism. Same as the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA, which is also now under Constantinople along with the UOCC. Small world.
Archbishop Gotcha! plays intellectual sophistry to try to convince the world that 2+2 in fact equals 5. It doesn’t work.
He is a prisoner of his own deluded “logic.” Gotcha!
We’re not falling for it.
The parish in Florence has already decided to leave Rue Daru and join ROCOR. Unlikely to be the last.
https://www.egliserusse.eu/blogdiscussion/Florence-la-paroisse-russe-Saint-Nicolas-decide-de-se-placer-sous-l-omophore-de-l-EORHF_a5541.html
George yes about ru Daru Cathedral. Very beautiful and had a outstanding Russian choir, with many recording that i have, under Afonsky in 50s and 60s.
I have memories of standing in the Cathedral on a lenten Friday hearing this hautingly beautiful choir singing. So Sadly. Matched my mood as had just been jilted, at 17!! In Paris!!
And of course it featured in the Yul Bryner Anastasia movie of 1958.
Sad that it and The instinct have declined ao badly, even the choir has losing that Russian sound.
Re Ukraine. Sad, sad sad and one thing we can know is anything the remains of empire lot in Constantinople touch, will be wrotten and for their benefit. BEWARE of Greeks, says this one, BEARING GIFTS.
And on separate Subject Tsipras aiming to move to down grade place of Church of Greece in the Constitution.
It suddenly came to me that the ecclesiology of the Constantinople patriarchate seems to have been through the ages what ever the prevailing political view if it’s matters was at the time.
Now you may say so same with all of them! But difference being that Constantinople is the only one seeking to foist it on entire church as a dogmaticdivine Ordnance.
Sure there needs to be a united church in Ukraine before the population turn protestant or atheist out of spiritual death. But this can only happen when the schismatic GROUPS publically show repentance.
So if the EP revoked the jurisdiction of Moscow in the Ukraine
And did not acknowledge but rather absorbed the schismatics into the Ecumenical Patriarchate
And expects all Russian bishops to acknowledge the jurisdiction of the EP only and stand by for orders / assignment / reassignment
Then I guess the only Church in the Ukraine according to the Church of Constantinople is the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
Sheep stealing church heist
But wait – there’s more!
If the MP doesn’t play along, the EP – according to this Archbishop Job – will be forced to revoke the autocephaly of the Patriarchate of Moscow
Stealing the vast majority of the world’s Orthodox faithful – at least on paper and in the minds of the Phanar
With consequences no person should merely brush off
Seeing that the Phanar through canon 28 sees itself as ruling everywhere the Orthodox Church is not already established
And seeing that they are striking at the heart of Russian Orthodox – Kiev
And threatening to take the fight all the way to Moscow and beyond
Actions that would make any Roman Pope throughout history blush
Yes
This is looking to be worse than 1054
This is all happening under the radar of the average every day citizen, American public, most Christians and even most Orthodox Christians in America
Can I be alarmed yet? Or does someone have yet another brilliant argument to deny all this?
“Abu – this is no time to panic . . . START PANICKING!!”
Perhaps the Phanar bit off a bit more than it can chew?
What is a “cooperation document”? And what is meant by the following: “The agreement that we signed today completes this process … creates all conditions for the process of granting or rather preparation for the Council, the process of granting the Tomos to be carried out absolutely in strict accordance with the canons of the Orthodox Church,” the head of state told journalists after the meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew in Istanbul.”
1) Does it mean that the “process” is completed and the Tomos is being granted?
OR
2) Does it mean a Council is going to be convened to decide on whether or not the Tomos will be granted now that the proposed agreement has been signed?
* * *
Poroshenko and Patriarch Bartholomew Sign a Cooperation Agreement
President Poroshenko and Patriarch Bartholomew have signed an agreement on cooperation and interaction between Ukraine and the Patriarchate of Constantinople.
On November 3, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, following the meeting in Istanbul, signed an agreement on cooperation and interaction between Ukraine and the Patriarchate of Constantinople, reports Interfax-Ukraine.
“The agreement that we signed today completes this process … creates all conditions for the process of granting or rather preparation for the Council, the process of granting the Tomos to be carried out absolutely in strict accordance with the canons of the Orthodox Church,” the head of state told journalists after the meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew in Istanbul.
After signing the agreement, Patriarch Bartholomew said: “I am sure that the decision on autocephaly will lead to the unity and unification of all Orthodox in Ukraine.”
As the UOJ reported, earlier the head of the Legal Department of the UOC Protopriest Alexander Bakhov said that the authorities want not only to create the Single Local Church but also to destroy the UOC.
http://spzh.news/en/news/57255-poroshenko-i-patriarkh-varfolomej-podpisali-soglashenije-o-sotrudnichestve
In another article, it says: “He also said that the UOC ceased its existence on October 11, 2018.” What????? https://spzh.news/en/news/57259-poroshenko-soglashenijem-s-fanarom-sozdajetsya-nezavisimaja-ukrainskaja-cerkovy
Ah…the beauty of symphonia! Some commentators here ought to be thrilled.
Brian
Not to mention what appears to be our secret symphonia of the US and the EP that’s on the down-low
I think it’s a very dangerous game
Recently, I watched the movie “Silence” from the book by the Japanese author Shusaku Endo – a book I read many years ago
The Samurai wiped out the Christians of Japan because they did not want the infiltration of England, France, Spain or Portugal – and none of the political power of Rome
They merely saw Christianity as a faith of Europeans – and more importantly – a means of European power and control in the guise of religion
If you really think about it, every time the Christian Church has really gone through the meat grinder (on a large scale), it’s been a government cranking the wheel
Pagan Emperors of Rome
Barbaric pagan kings
Bolsheviks
Etc
Someone once said, religion is to the
Poor uneducated – faith and hope
Educated – foolishness
Powerful – useful
We are at risk at all times of being useful idiots to the powerful
The “educated” class will figure we get what we deserve for getting in the way of progress and will give the rich and powerful the means and justification for our destruction
Of course, all this is an illusion
Not our faith – but the human understanding of our faith – with all sorts of human baggage
I am truly alarmed with what I see
I fear not only for the Russians and Ukrainians
But also that history would once again repeat itself in the most horrible way
Including over here
Our leaders need to act in good faith towards the canons – and with real foresight for peace
This is shortsightedness on their part. If they believe they are acting in the best interest of our faith with peace in mind, they are fooling themselves
May none of us be used as “useful idiots.”
Yes. On all sides. And this because we do not understand what power is, nor how peace in a Christian sense is restored among brethren.
I have said from the beginning that this Ukrainian situation, no matter what one’s view of the EP and Moscow is, has almost nothing to do with the Church and everything to do with worldly politics and historical political hatreds. I might have a different opinion of the EP (and of Moscow) if he/they had approached this as Christians who encourage brothers to forgive and be reconciled for the sake of their own souls.
Rhetorical question: Will an autocephelous Ukrainian Church be magically reconciled with her (new) Russian ‘sister Church merely by virtue of a tomos? An oblation offered on an altar of hatred, no matter how ‘independent’ the altar, remains an abomination.
Is the peace of the Church being served? Or is it political peace as the world understands it? If the peace of the Church, why is it creating further division and the spread of hatred and suspicion among brethren? And if ‘peace’ as the world understands it, why must it involve the Church?
Blend the two, and neither form of peace is achieved.
Brian, the Russian Church in Ukraine was already taking a political position against Ukrainian sovereignty. Yes, everyone wants peace, but peace on their own terms. The Russian Church wanted Ukrainians to peacefully accept the political annexation of Crimea by Russia. That’s being politically subversive.
Personally, I don’t have any great hopes for Ukrainian autocephaly bringing about political peace. However, it is an ecclesiastical solution that will allow millions of Ukrainians to at least die within the canonical church. An Orthodox burial wasn’t even allowed by the Moscow Patriarchate for those Ukrainian soldiers who defended their country against the pro-Russian separatists.
Man spoils quickly, and God plunders speedily.
Thank God that millions of Ukrainians are now back within the fold of canonical Orthodoxy. Thank God that the schismatic “Kievan Patriarchate” and the “UOAC” have been dissolved. My hope is that the Uniate “UGCC” will also join. Their Archbishop has already shown his appreciation for what the Ecumenical Patriarchate is doing.
Joseph: the m U.S.”peacefully” accepted the annexation of Texas after its war if independence from Mexico. Other than the violent re-annexation of Texas after the War Between the Statrs, I see no difference between what the Crimeans did in 2014 and what the Texans did in 1848.
A little humility is in order I believe.
George, I agree that regaining Crimea is a lost cause at this point for Ukrainians. However, I don’t believe the Russian avarice for more Ukrainian land is satiated yet. If it was, then Moscow would be more willing to accept an Ukrainian autocephaly. Look, it should be a fair trade: Russia gets Crimea, Ukraine gets autocephaly.
Sure, everyone needs humility.
Joseph,
You have never heard me say that Moscow is innocent in this matter, so please do not assume that is what I think. It seems to me that all the parties involved share a great deal of blame.
Moreover, nothing would please me more than watching our God bring good from all the evil these men have done – those in the Church, as well as those using her. It’s just that it’s no good pretending that it isn’t evil. That Joseph’s brothers were saved by selling him into slavery, that the world was saved by killing its Creator… There are no human heroes in the works of God; only sinners who do awful and unlawful things.
We shall see what happens. We do not yet know what God may be doing.
So when is President Donald Trump going to get on the autocephaly bandwagon and sign an agreement of Cooperation and Coordination with the Ecumenical Patriarchate?
That’s a good question, Joseph! I don’t know. If there is such a thing as a “Cooperation & Coordination” agreement, seems to me we should be getting in on it. (Kidding)
Good one, Joseph. Pass that one on to Robert Mueller as another example of “Russian collusion.” That should keep the investigation going for another ten years at least.
When i look at the well fed fat face of the Bishop with his three hair on his chin, well fed for lent any time, translating to rt of Patriarch, then u need know nothing else. These people proove Marx and Lenin right. And then the Patrarch, spouting meaningless pious jargon in tune with what ever needed. What can they say to a family struggling to put food on the table listening to these comfortable well fed lazy work Shy USELESS individuals inhabiting a dead land? Listen friends THANK GOD THIS CHURCH IS DYING. IT IS DEAD.
It sounds like most of the confusion is sowed by the sensationalist news outlets backed by the MP such as orthochristian.com. It was articles on orthochristian.com that accused the EP of legitimizing the “Kievan Patriarchate” and “Patriarch Filaret” when that was never actually the case.
Joseph,
Although I cannot think a single good thing to say about how Pat. Bartholomew has handled this affair, I do agree that some of the conclusions drawn by others were never actually stated by him.
At first I thought that the whole schmeer was ‘stupid’, but now I’m wondering if the EP should submit to a psychiatric exam! Sounds like the beginning phase of Alzheimer’s or something similar. After all he’s pretty old. At any rate he and his synod need our prayers.
Maybe we could ask the former chancellor of the OCA if he can make a recommendation.
I noticed today on the OCA website a very nice letter written from HB Tikon to Met. Onuphry. It was characterized by quite a bit of supportive language without coming right out and saying “Hey, we’re with you.” So, I wonder if the Jillions dismissal (among other things) was a house-cleaning of the pro-EP segment and signals a stronger alliance with the Mother Church as the anniversary of “autocephaly” draws nearer?
Yes Fr George,
I, too, was pleased to read Metropolitan Tikhon’s heartfelt letter to Metr. Onuphry. Better late than never.
Sadly, I’m wondering if this is as “close as it gets” to the OCA formally condemning the Church of Constantinople’s outrageous intrusion into Ukraine and “regularization” of the ordinations of the lunatics who lead the non-canonical churches there (like “regularizing” the episcopacy of “Filaret,” aka the “monk with a wife and 3 kids on the side.” May God have mercy on his children for the life of shame that “Filaret” put them in… may they heal from living under his narcissism!).
I would love to see it, but I still doubt that the OCA will issue any formal condemnations of the Church of Constantinople’s actions, lest they “offend” our more wealthy and more numerous American Orthodox neighbors, the GOA.
I wonder, though, how much longer the GOA will be able to put on its pretentious airs of wealth and pseudo-superiority. The $25 million bribe that Ukraine gave the Church in Constantinople during this past summer won’t go too far to “save” the GOA — that money certainly won’t last long. What will they do when the EP/GOA is short on cash in the future?
Archbishop Demetrios is an elderly man. Once he reposes/retires and a more pit-bull-like GOA Archbishop is appointed (maybe Metropolitan Elpidophoros “First Without Equals” Lambriniadis?), I wonder how OCA-GOA relations will evolve at that time.
Metropolitan Elpidophoros wouldn’t think twice about telling the OCA (and all other Orthodox in America) that to be good, obedient Orthodox Christians we need to bow down to him and to the Church in Constantinople. Hopefully, if that ever happens, the OCA won’t be afraid to tell the Church in Constantinople and the GOA to get lost.
George Osborne, what part of Metropolitan Tikhon’s letter to Metropolitan Onuphry “was characterized by quite a bit of supportive language without coming right out and saying ‘Hey, we’re with you.'”?
George Michalopulos
*Rimshot
Below please find an article from Friday on the Orthodox Christianity website.
NOT ONLY CAN WE GIVE, BUT WE CAN ALSO TAKE AWAY AUTOCEPHALY—ABP. JOB (GETCHA)
“When the majority of votes in the Verkhovna Rada appealed to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, it means that the majority of Ukrainian people appealed to the Ecumenical Patriarchate with a request to grant autocephaly.”
Chambésy, Switzerland, November 2, 2018
http://orthochristian.com/117003.html
Fascinating,
Russia should simply ignore all this anarchy and maintain order where it can. Bartholomew is presenting a fantasy as reality which he cannot enforce.
Below please find an article from yesterday on the Orthodox Christianity website.
“THE MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE NO LONGER EXISTS IN UKRAINE TODAY”—ABP. JOB (GETCHA)
Chambésy, Switzerland, November 3, 2018
http://orthochristian.com/117009.html
Greatly Saddened
“THE MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE NO LONGER EXISTS IN UKRAINE TODAY”—ABP. JOB (GETCHA)
Last time I checked, Met. Onuphry and the canonical Church of the Ukraine was still standing
Or did the EP acquire a Death Star and we haven’t heard?
Has the Autocephaly of the Church of Alderaan been revoked yet?
The “Kievan Patriarchate” doesn’t exist anymore either. It’s been dissolved. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Thank God that mess is done with. Hallelujah!
Archbishop Job is just saying the Russian Church in Ukraine is no longer canonical. Yes, it still exists, but it exists outside of Orthodox canons:
“If it would be as some say—that whoever doesn’t want Ukrainian autocephaly can remain as a Russian exarchate or whatever else—it’s simply anti-canonical. According to the canons of the Church, there should be only one Orthodox Church on the territory of one state, and this autocephalous Orthodox Church should unite everyone.”
So, now that the “Kievan Patriarchate” and the UAOC are both dissolved, this is a great opportunity for the bishops of the Russian Church in Ukraine to take over. They outnumber everyone else. They could easily take over the “unifying council” if they wanted to.
According to the canons of the Church, there should be only one Orthodox Church on the territory of one state…
Apparently, this guy has never heard of the US,. Canada, Mexico, and all the Central and South American countries – or any Westren European country Oh, that’s right, we are the dispora, hopelessly lost in Barbarian lands
Filaret expects the MP to prepare for a special unification council “to approve the decision on church unity.”
Read more on UNIAN: https://www.unian.info/society/10296516-ukraine-s-patriarch-filaret-urges-church-heads-to-prepare-for-election-of-head-of-new-independent-church.html
I have it on good authority that Ecumenical Patriarch did receive a very substantial financial gift from friends in Ukraine. As the expression goes, “Follow the money.” It will come out in good time.
Below please find a news release from today on the Ecumenical Patriarchate website.
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and President Petro Poroshenko Sign Agreement on Cooperation and Coordination
November 5, 2018
https://www.ecupatria.org/2018/11/05/ecumenical-patriarch-bartholomew-and-president-petro-poroshenko-sign-agreement-on-cooperation-and-coordination/
Since today is voting day, wouldn’t it be nice if we could take a valid poll on whose “Christian” dalliances, not to say enmeshments, with nationalist politicians are more pleasing to God and spiritually redemptive to man: the MP’s with the Kremlin, the EP’s with Kiev, or certain US Orthodox’s with The White House?
Father, you forgot an important one: “Christian” dallience with so-called progressive ideology.
Of course no such dallience is good for our souls since it is driven by passions and fears, not love and and trust in God.
Still I refuse to approve in any way those who call me deplorable and by their public statements hate me with a deep and abiding predjudice.
Thank you, Father. And even if it wasn’t Election Day, can I still vote ‘none of the above’?
Please, tell me how tens of millions of Ukrainians are to be expected to “repent” of their schism, leave their parishes where they are (apparently) NOT receiving the Eucharist and NOT worshipping as Orthodox Christians, and “join” up with the “True Church” under the ROC? The more I read, the more I grrrr…..
70 years ago, Stalin started massive operation to deport West Ukrainians to Siberia
As the armed opposition of West Ukrainians to the Soviet rule after WWII did not subside, Stalin decided to neutralize the situation in this area by deporting the families of Ukrainian insurgents to Siberia. In 1944-1945, 14,728 families of Ukrainian patriots were taken to Siberia.
However, the Soviets stepped up their efforts to quash the uprising in West Ukraine and more patriots and their families were sent to Siberia on Oct. 21, 1947.
The operation, code-named Zakhid (West) started at 2 a.m. when NKVD agents burst into the homes of Ukrainians letting them to get a bag of essentials, Ukrinform writes Oct. 21.
The property of the deportees was confiscated. In one day, 26,682 families or 76,192 Ukrainians were forcefully resettled.
Many of the deportees ended up as slave workers in the mines and kolkhozs.
In total, between 1944 and 1953 over 500,000 persons were persecuted, 134,000 of them arrested, 150,000 killed, with 200,000 Ukrainians resettled to Siberia for life.
George, It is to be hoped that an excerpt from the actual interview (using Microsoft Word Translate in all its glory!) with Archbishop Job (Getcha) will clear up your confusion.
Here ’tis:
BBC: The Synod of the Ecumenical Patriarchate, by its decision of 11 October this year, granted the appeals of the primate UOC-KP Filaret and UAOC Makariya. Who are they now? Filaret says: I was, is and will be a patriarch. But who is it for you?
a.i. First of all, why were these appeals being considered now and not before?
It must be understood-and it is very important that the Ecumenical Patriarchate began the process of providing autocephaly for the Orthodox Church in Ukraine not to meet someone’s private interests, but to save and unite millions of people.
All bishops in Ukraine de facto according to the decision of this synod are the bishops of the Universal throne, and now they must wait for the directive of the Ecumenical Patriarchate concerning its further functioning.
It is clear that the autocephaly, which will be provided to the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, will unite all Orthodox bishops and all Orthodox believers in Ukraine. But how can this be done if some of these bishops were still in a split, in a schism, that is, they were non-canonical?
It was necessary to give them a canonical status, and that is why there was a decision to satisfy the appeal of the former Metropolitan of Kiev Filaret and former Metropolitan Makaria of Lviv. That is, Metropolitan Filaret and Metropolitan Makariy together with their followers, according to this decision, are accepted in the church.
But for what purpose? With the aim that they will find their places in this United Orthodox Church in Ukraine. That is, this is not the case, as we are accused of, the legitimation of the schism. We are not talking about the fact that we give tomos in the hands of the head of the Kyivan Patriarchate or tomos head of the UAOC.
These bishops are restored as bishops in the bosom of the universal Church, and now we wait for the next step, when these all bishops unite in the new structure, the Orthodox Church in Ukraine, which will be given tomos of autocephaly.
We did not recognize Filaret and Makaria as the primate of their churches, we did not say that the UOC-KP or UAOC are legitimate, because it would be very illogical: it would mean that we have recognized two parallel church structures in parallel with the third Canonical structure, which would be the Moscow Patriarchate.
BBC: Does this mean that the metropolitans, archbishops, bishops in the Church of the universe have taken those whom the same Filaret ordained for the past 20 years? Or do you need to conduct some kind of acts of Perupolaniya?
a.i. This is not the first time in the history of the church, when there are splits, schisms. There were a lot of such cases.
According to the canons of the Ecumenical councils, if a person is baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in a schism or heresy, then his baptism is recognized when that person returns to the church.
And, incidentally, widespread, unfortunately, in our time practice of re-baptism of Roman Catholics or Lutherans not only does not conform to the canons, but also was condemned by the Orthodox Church as wrong.
Even in the canons it is said that if the baptism is recognized, then the Hiroonia is recognized when the bishops return to the church. On the basis of this decision all these bishops were accepted in the church, but, again, not to legitimize their schism, but to unite Ukrainian orthodoxy.
It is also very important that the synod’s decision of 11 October repealed the Act of 1686 year. From the canonical point of view this means that today in Ukraine the Church of the Moscow Patriarchate no longer exists.
When you get sick and go to the doctor, the Doctor can not cure you instantly, he will prescribe a course of treatment, which can last a couple of days, a couple of weeks, a couple of months, a couple of years, depending on your illness. Therefore, we are now in the process of treatment, the goal-unification of Ukrainian Orthodoxy
All bishops in Ukraine de facto according to the decision of this synod are the bishops of the Universal throne, and now they have to wait for the directive of the Ecumenical Patriarchate concerning its further functioning and existence in the future Granting of Autocephalous Orthodox Church in Ukraine.
BBC: And the fact that they do not recognize it themselves?
a.i. I do not know how much they were informed-the process, I once again underline, directs the Ecumenical Patriarch according to his canonical prerogatives. When he deems it necessary, he will inform.
He sent his exarchs to Ukraine, they act as his official representatives, who in due time should give certain instructions, directives as to what should happen.
BBC: I mean, is this ecumenical Patriarch supposed to convene this cathedral?
a.i. Yes.
BBC: And when will he do that?
a.i. When he thinks the time has come.
BBC: That is, at some point Metropolitan Onufriy will receive a letter from Patriarch Bartholomew, in which he will give him some directives?
a.i. I cannot tell you what will happen, but it should be understood: the abolition of the Act of 1686 abolished the administration of the Moscow Church of the Kyivan Archdiocese and all dioceses in Ukraine.
You have to understand that we are now in this, we can say, the position between the two stages. What happened on October 11 is the first stage that prepares the unification of the Episcopatist and the proclamation of the autocephalous.
In such a dynamic, these bishops were taken in the church’s lair with this prospect, and we are now going to this perspective.
BBC: So you now mean that those Ukrainian hierarchs, who will not appear on the Unification Cathedral, will be outlawed, outside the canons in the territory of Ukraine?
a.i. According to the canons of the church, there cannot be two parallel churches on the same territory. If it is so, as some may speak,-that who does not want Ukrainian autocephaly, can remain as the Russian exarchate or it is unclear what-it is simply anti-canon.
According to the canons of the church, there should be only one Orthodox Church on the territory of one State, and this autocephalous Orthodox Church should unite all.
BBC: and Estonia?
a.i. The church in Estonia, first, is not autocephalous. This is an autonomous church, there is a difference. And secondly, the Estonian version was a compromise found temporarily.
BBC: That is, Estonia will not be in Ukraine?
a.i. If we want to follow the canons of the church, there can be no repetition of Estonia in Ukraine.
Moscow’s position has always been that Raskolnikov should return to the jurisdiction of Moscow, repenting. Unfortunately, this method has proved to be ineffective for thirty years
BBC: Then I’ll go back to my question. If we talk about this cathedral, which should gather in some foreseeable perspective, and there will not be all the Orthodox hierarchs who now reside in three jurisdictions, and who have the right to attend this cathedral, what will happen to those hierarchies That will not appear there? Will they be excommunicated from the church?
a.i. It’s all a process. There is such a Greek proverb: Time is the best healer. We must understand that the goal is to heal the rift that has existed in Ukraine for the last thirty years.
When you get sick and go to the doctor, the Doctor can not cure you instantly, he will prescribe a course of treatment, which can last a couple of days, a couple of weeks, a couple of months, a couple of years, depending on your illness. Therefore, we are now in the process of treatment, the goal-the unification of Ukrainian orthodoxy. And how long it will take-I think only God knows.
LINK!
https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-46067230?fbclid=IwAR2nMIXqm1e5IO3eSmR1LzfebN1JFfTvv2eKMZDCkiLspWw3daSSvQfiwro
Job Getcha is a real stand-up guy. I wonder if he will enjoy the cabaret in Kiev?
“Basil” wondered if Archbishop Job would enjoy the cabaret in Kyiv. Didn’t he attend the seminary in Kyiv?Why wonder?
Because of this: https://amisdelacommunautehelleniquedelyon.blogspot.com/2016/05/216-darugate.html
The link was not posted on my previous message, for some reason.
I wonder how the Ukrainians will react to having such a character as their new leader, if rumors are true. Those training camps didn’t really seem to be all that into cabaret.
What? He is having dinner on his birthday.
It must be hard being such a shill.
Bishops shouldn’t be hanging around at cabarets in secular clothing.
Oh. My mistake.
“Basil” wrote, “It must be hard being such a shill. Bishops shouldn’t be hanging around at cabarets in secular clothing.”
Hang on here, an anonymous somebody called me a shill, which, defined means, “A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.” This is an outright lie. I’m an artist, a sculptor, a Celtic artist, a fairly intelligent person, a bean-to-bar chocolate maker, a missions oriented person, a person who has done a lot of work for hurting folks in a lot of places all over the world, but a shill I am NOT. It must be hard, accusing a person falsely like you just did, and posting a link to an article with two photos that are intended to totally discredit Archbishop Job (Getcha).
I could agree with you, but I can’t. How many bishops have gone out in secular clothing on their birthdays, or have taken off their cassocks and klobuks in public in order to be more comfortable? How many times have bishops had their photos taken on the spur of the moment like this? Does anybody else want to cast the first stone? That’s all I’m saying. People who falsely accuse people will do it more than once, and “Basil,” you fit the bill, old boy.
I wonder because of this: https://amisdelacommunautehelleniquedelyon.blogspot.com/2016/05/216-darugate.html
The link never appeared on my last post, for some reason.
I wonder how the Ukrainians will react to having such a character as their leader, if the rumors are true. Those camps didn’t seem to be too fond of cabaret.
Moscow Patriarchal Church in Ukraine Will Continue After Autocephaly but as Marginal Force, Yurash Says
Beryl, who is Andrey Yurash? He is a Uniate, admirer of John Paul II (wrote a whole monograph about him), and is in charge of government religions policy. He believes that the state has right to administer religious life.
http://radonezh.ru/monitoring/podast-li-andrey-yurash-v-otstavku-svyatoslav-galan-soyuz-pravoslavnykh-zhurnalistov-161465.html
Martin, thanks for discrediting Andrey Yurash! I posted the excerpt because of this statement: “Some have already signaled their intentions (enovosty.com/news_politics/full/1511-chto-budet-s-upc-mp-posle-polucheniya-ukrainoj-tomosa-religioved-dal-prognoz).
“I am convinced,” Yurash continues, “that there are several dozen hierarchs who under the circumstances will be ready to join the majority of their priesthood to the movement toward autocephaly.”
Three UOC-MP bishops support autocephaly already, and apparently more would be willing to accept autocephaly for Ukraine, except for the intense pressure being put on them by other bishops.
Or to out it very simply, the Ukrainian state appears to be seeking to do precisely that which they accuse (perhaps rightly) the Russian state of doing – the Church as an instrument of the state.
I’d be curious whether this word in bold is an accurate translation. Rather chilling if it is.