ACTON – SVS Poverty Conference: A Case for Optimism in the OCA?

acton-poverty This is what I’ve meant by saying we Orthodox should engage the culture. We have a lot to offer and St Vladimir’s is to be commended for partnering with The Acton Institute to address the issue of poverty. This essay is from Fr Hans Jacobse of the American Orthodox Institute.

Acton does stellar work. And it’s a healthy reminder of the colloquia and symposia that took place during the archpastorate of Metropolitan Jonah. Perhaps there is some hope for the OCA if it continues along this path after all.

As for myself, I’ve heard not everybody is happy (particularly the Leftist contingent) and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was backstage kibbitzing going on. But I always say: bring forward your arguments, let’s debate them. It’s in the refiner’s fire that arguments are sharpened and truth is clarified. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Fr Chad Hatfield for continuing SVS’ fine tradition of tackling controversial subjects.

Source: AOI Observer | Fr. Johannes Jacobse

St. Vladimir’s Conference on Poverty, May 31-June 1, 2013
Get details | Download flyer (pdf)

As iron sharpens iron, says the book of Proverbs, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend. Remember that advice as the conference on poverty begins on May 31, 2013 at St. Vladimir’s Seminary. The conference is led by the Acton Institute, arguably one of the most influential think tanks on religion and economics in the English speaking world. The conference is sponsored by the Zarras Foundation in honor of the late Dn. John Zarras, a devoted churchman, successful businessman, and member of the St. Vladimir’s Board of Trustees.

Speakers at the conference include Jay Richards, author of Money, Greed, and God: Why Capitalism Is the Solution and Not the Problem and Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute; Michael Matheson Miller, Acton Institute Research Fellow; and a Trustee of the Seminary, The Rev. Dr. Philip LeMasters, professor of Religion and Dean of the School of Social Sciences and Religion, McMurry University.

Rounding out a concluding panel discussion with the above speakers will be Dr. Antionios Kiriopoulos, SVOTS alumnus and officer in the National Council of Churches, along with SVOTS Trustee Dr. Nicholas Pandelidis and Subdeacon Paul Abernathy, local director of FOCUS North America, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, representing FOCUS North America.

The Acton scholars research the causes and cures of poverty in America and other parts of the world (see Poverty Cure). Acton roundly critiques big-government solutions (Great Society programs, foreign aid cash grants, etc.). Big government solutions can address short-term symptoms but they usually destroy the underlying economic infrastructure as well. Government largesse does not eliminate poverty. It merely institutionalizes poverty by eliminating the possibility for economic growth and mobility — a form of 21st century colonization in the Third World.

These ideas are compelling but the religious left resists them like Dracula avoids the cross. Progressive thinkers justify their economic ideas by drawing from the moral vocabulary of the Christian tradition but facts on the ground show that their ideas don’t work. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Create a market where a man can sell his extra fish and he can build a home and send his children to school.

St. Vladimir’s deserves credit for hosting the conference given that a preponderance of Orthodox thinking on political and economic issues tends to drift leftward. This is one reason why the Orthodox contribution to contemporary culture has been relatively meager. Orthodox voices seldom rise above the amen chorus for the cultural left as we see with Orthodox involvement in the (dying) National Council of Churches for example. (Also see John Lomperis’ article: Why Do Eastern Orthodox Churches Continue Enabling Opposition to Orthodox Values on Abortion, Sexual Morality?.)

Very often representatives from the religious left attempt to shut down rather than engage debate. Fortunately that has not happened here since an NCC representative has been invited to respond. As iron sharpens iron. . .

Russell Kirk said years ago that religion is the ground of culture. We are grateful to St. Vladimir’s for its commitment to rigorous and open inquiry on these pressing cultural questions.

Acton Poverty Cure Video


  1. Fr. George Washburn says

    Is it gossip, Mr. Pappas, if we share something derogatory that a friend who supposedly knows has told us?

    • Fr. George Washburn says

      There is a distinction between objectively reporting a fact (opposition) and using unpleasant nicknames for people or pronouncing value judgments like “ruthless.”

      • nit picker says

        hows about “brood of vipers” or “white-washed tombs” ?

        • Heracleides says

          Shush – let’s not interrupt Fr. George’s Kum-ba-yah solo. 😉

          P.S. God save us all from politically correct clerics.

          • Fr. George Washburn says

            It is not about political correctness at all, my friend. Maybe on Fr. Leonid’s part, but not mine. I have been swimming against rather strong currents of political correctness here in Santa Cruz pretty continuously since 1973. My point was that calling people names like “lefty” cheapens the discourse. As far as I can tell from a very long distance away, Fr. Kishkovsky is not my kind of guy, but calling him names gets us nowhere good.

            love, aspirationally

            Fr. George.

            • nit picker says

              Fr. George,

              You wrote:

              My point was that calling people names like “lefty” cheapens the discourse. As far as I can tell from a very long distance away, Fr. Kishkovsky is not my kind of guy, but calling him names gets us nowhere good.

              I agree.

              What I disagree with in your posts, Fr. George, is your apparent inconsistency. I looked through your postings. Truthfully, I don’t know to what degree Fr. Kishokovsky was or was not involved in removing Metropolitan Jonah or trying to derail this conference or in any other activities that any other peoples allege. I would rather not speculate. That would be irresponsible. What I can state, with certainty, is the following:

              -individuals whom I consider credible, have provided evidence which remove all reasonable doubt from my mind that there was indeed a conspiracy by other individuals both within and possibly outside the OCA to remove Metropolitan Jonah from his position and cause the implosion of the OCA.
              -these individuals that conspired caused scandal to the faithful, repeatedly lied, caused irreparable damage to the reputation of many individuals and were just down right mean.
              -they have been caught repeatedly with their “hand in the cookie jar.” To date there has been no sign of repentance, no sign of owning up, no sign of public apology. Just more of passing the blame, villifying innocents, creating innuendo.
              -Fr. George, if it wasn’t by the Grace of God and the people who wouldn’t stop shouting, perhaps nothing ever would have been resolved and Metropolitan Jonah would have been stuck at $1000 per month for life instead of $3000.
              -I don’t recall ever seeing you come to the defense of gossiping being done against a certain priest monk, certain nuns, a certain bishop, a certain elder, Dr. Stankovich, Carl Kraeff and especially not for Metropolitan Jonah. This is what I find especially duplicitous Fr. George.

              This is why I cringe when you sign your letters “love”. Where was your admonition not to gossip when they were being attacked? I confess this bothers me and I ask your forgiveness for judging you in my heart.

        • Precisely, nit-picker! Precisely!! Thank you for bringing that up, that is if you are referring to the times Jesus called the Pharisees the names you mention.

          Let’s unpack your comment. Jesus had both a job description (Incarnate Deity and Final Judge of Mankind) and skill set (omniscience) which, any pretensions to the contrary, are *not* possessed by nit-pickers, Pappases, Washburns, Michalopoluses, purported score-knowers, etc. When we combine that with the fact that this very Jesus called people harsh, judgmental names *very* seldom according to the Gospel record, I think that we Toms, Dicks, Harrys and Johns ought to conclude we should almost never to do it.


          Fr. George

          • nit picker says

            Fr. George,

            You have no possible way of knowing what my “job description” and “skill set” are. It is also irrelevant to the conversation what my “job description” and “skill set” are. In case you are interested my job description is “Grand High Inquisitor Self Righteous Poobah of the Most Delicious Frosted Creme Filled Chocolate Cupcake of the Wrinkled Periwinkle Blue Cloud Jumping Islands the Third (Cubed), Jr., M.D., D.D.S, M.Div., Ph. D., GRE, SAT, so on and so on…”. My skill set is everything. I’m still working on creating life from nothing. I think I almost have it. I only forgot to carry the two, divide by three, multiply by 10. It should be done baking in a month. BTW, I don’t care if you find this offensive.

            love (see how meaningless signing a note with the word “love” after a message like that is? I cringe whenever I see you sign your messages in this way. For me it cheapens the self-emptying Christ like love that all priests should and try to emulate, God will judge)


      • My spiritual father, a spiritual son of Elder Aemilianos of Simonopetra, made me put a little card on my desk that says: “Speak evil of no one. Titus 3:2”

        The OED defines Gossip, n. casual or unconstrained conversation or reports about other people, typically involving details that are not confirmed as being true.

        Its origins in English are interesting, and perhaps convey to us a spiritual truth:
        late Old English godsibb ‘godfather, godmother, baptismal sponsor’, literally ‘a person related to one in God’, from god ‘God’ + sibb ‘a relative’ (see sib). In Middle English the sense was ‘a close friend, a person with whom one gossips’, hence ‘a person who gossips’, later (early 19th century) ‘idle talk’ (from the verb, which dates from the early 17th century)

        I’m all for sunlight, but our weapons can’t be those of the world. Is this information that we’ve received something that should be spread abroad and shouted from the rooftops? Is it useful or edifying?

        • nit picker says


          Thank you for your comment. In particular, it’s tone which is gentle and kind. You write that our “weapons can’t be those of the world.” Yet, here we are, by necessity, owing to Cesar what is Cesar’s. We must be spiritual, but not only. Was Fr. Leonid involved the way others suggest in the downfall of Metropolitan Jonah and trying to undermine this conference? I do not know, I have no way of knowing and I personally would rather not speculate concerning such things.

          I can state the following with certainty:
          -There has been evidence provided by numerous reputable parties which remove all reasonable doubt in my mind that there was a conspiracy by individuals within the OCA and possibly other Orthodox Churches.
          -Individuals were slandered and these slanders still widely circulate on this forum and else where as truth.
          -Many people have been scandalized by individuals who have not repented of their sin and it would be better if they were to “hang a mill-stone around their necks.” There is no sign of their repentance forth coming.
          -The “scandals” were created by certain individuals with utter disregard and made very public, not caring how it affected the faithful for personal gain.
          – Except by God’s grace and many individuals “yelling” from the roof-tops has there even started to be a resolution to this un-holy mess.

          IC, I’m going to let you in on a secret. What I find distasteful about Fr. George Washburn’s admonition not to gossip is his inconsistency. Where was his admonition not to gossip when Metropolitan Jonah was accused of covering up rape? How about the accusations against a certain priest monk? Or accusations against certain nuns? Or accusations against a certain spiritual Elder? Or accusations against a certain Bishop? Or accusations against Dr. Stankovich? Or accusations against Mr. Kraeff? Why does he only feel the need to protect Fr. Leonid K.? I dislike foolish inconsistency. It is the hobgoblin of a little mind. That is why I flinch when he signs his letters “love.” I sense he is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the discerning sheep of Christ. I really wish Fr. George would prove me wrong. I wouldn’t mind at all.

        • How do the scriptures and Fathers define gossip?

          • nit picker says

            Dear colette,


            A valid question. I am glad you asked it. I am no theologian. However, I will do my best to answer your question. I chose to limit my patristic survey to St.John Chrysostom because of how his works are organized and readability. If there are works that I have left out, it is not intentional, it is by ignorance and I encourage others more knowledgeable than me to contribute to the discussion by citing other patristic quotes and sources. I would be most grateful.

            The wikipedia article concerning gossip is worth a read ( It occured to me that we always hear “don’t gossip, that’s not nice.” You colette, asked the important question. What does scripture say, what do the Father’s say?

            Let’s start with one of the most basic. “Do not bear false witness.” Directly from God’s mouth to Moses’ ear to us.

            Gossiping does not mean lying (necessarily). “Gossip is idle talk or rumor about the personal or private affairs of others.” [source: wikipedia]. Rumor: “is often viewed as “an unverified account or explanation of events circulating from person to person and pertaining to an object, event, or issue in public concern…most theories agree that rumor involves some kind of a statement whose veracity is not quickly or ever confirmed…Rumors are also often discussed with regard to “misinformation” and “disinformation” (the former often seen as simply false and the latter seen as deliberately false, though usually from a government source given to the media or a foreign government).”[source:

            There is no admonition from God not to speak concerning one another. There is an admonition not to speak falsely concerning one another.

            The societal roles of gossip are very interesting, and if we observe the communication that has taken place on this blog and on “Orthodox Christians for Accountability” both sites have played out some of these various roles at different times in varying capacities.

            Again from wikipedia:

            Gossip can:
            reinforce – or punish the lack of – morality and accountability
            reveal passive aggression, isolating and harming others
            serve as a process of social grooming
            build and maintain a sense of community with shared interests, information, and values
            begin a courtship that helps one find their desired mate, by counseling others
            provide a peer-to-peer mechanism for disseminating information

            Below the last paragraph are quotes from scripture having to do with gossip with links to the relevant passages to St.John Chrysostom. Due to length and time restrictions rather than type it all out here or copy and paste here, I will allow those who are interested to go to the links if they wish to read the relevant homilies. I decided to include here the text of the homily on 1 Corinthians 12:26. IMO, it creates a clear distinction concerning not bearing false witness or rather bearing witness responsibly, a point of contention which has been a re-occurring theme on this forum.

            In conclusion, my understanding is that there is no prohibition against gossip when it seeks to protect the Body of the Church, the fabric of society, expose sin, provoke individuals to repentance, encourage and protect the weak and defenseless. The prohibition against gossip exists for the intentional and willfull spreading of information that is known to be untrue and without merit. It goes without saying that if information is shared initially under the belief that it is true but then it is discovered later on that it was untrue it is expected that the sharer must correct the information that they shared or lose all credibility within the larger societal circle. This is part of the problem with the STINKBOMB and that no one repented of it afterwards. They may have believed it to be true when they put it out, but they didn’t publicly repent afterwards, causing them to lose all credibility.

            Romans 1:28-32
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.



            Ephesians 5:11
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.



            1 Timothy 5:20
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.



            James 5:16
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            16 Confess your trespasses[a] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

            No homily by St. John Chrysostom found for this passage. Sorry.


            Galatians 6:1-2
            New King James Version (NKJV)

            6 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.



            1 Corinthians 12:26
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

            5. And whether one member suffers all the members suffer with it; or one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.


            Yea, with no other view, says he, did He make the care He requires common, establishing unity in so great diversity, but that of all events there might be complete communion. Because, if our care for our neighbor be the common safety, it follows also that our glory and our sadness must be common. Three things therefore he here demands: the not being divided but united in perfection: the having like care for another: and the considering all that happens common. And as above he says, He has given more abundant honor to that part which lacked, because it needs it; signifying that the very inferiority was become an introduction to greater honor; so here he equalizes them in respect of the care also which takes place mutually among them. For therefore did he cause them to partake of greater honor, says he, that they might not meet with less care. And not from hence only, but also by all that befalls them, good and painful, are the members bound to one another. Thus often when a thorn is fixed in the heel, the whole body feels it and cares for it: both the back is bent and the belly and thighs are contracted, and the hands coming forth as guards and servants draw out what was so fixed, and the head stoops over it, and the eyes observe it with much care. So that even if the foot has inferiority from its inability to ascend, yet by its bringing down the head it has an equality…, and is favored with the same honor; and especially whenever the feet are the cause of the head’s coming down, not by favor but by their claim on it. And thus, if by being the more honorable it has an advantage; yet in that, being so it owes such honor and care to the lesser and likewise equal sympathy: by this it indicates great equality. Since what is meaner than the heel? What more honorable than the head? Yet this member reaches to that, and moves them all together with itself. Again if anything is the matter with the eyes, all complain and all are idle: and neither do the feet walk nor the hands work, nor does the stomach enjoy its accustomed food; and yet the affection is of the eyes. Why do you cause the stomach to pine? Why keep your feet still? Why bind your hands? Because they are tied to the feet, and in an unspeakable manner the whole body suffers. For if it shared not in the suffering, it would not endure to partake of the care. Wherefore having said, that the members may have the same care one for another, he added, whether one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. And how do they rejoice with it? say you. The head is crowned, and the whole man is honored. The mouth speaks, and the eyes laugh and are delighted. Yet the credit belongs not to the beauty of the eyes, but to the tongue. Again if the eyes appear beautiful, the whole woman is embellished: as indeed these also, when a straight nose and upright neck and other members are praised, rejoice and appear cheerful: and again they shed tears in great abundance over their griefs and misfortunes, though themselves continue uninjured.

            6. Let us all then, considering these things, imitate the love of these members; let us not in any wise do the contrary, trampling on the miseries of our neighbor and envying his good things. For this is the part of madmen and persons beside themselves. Just as he that digs out his own eye has displayed a very great proof of senselessness; and he that devours his own hand exhibits a clear evidence of downright madness.”
            2 Corinthians 12:20
            New King James Version (NKJV)
            20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbiting, whispering, conceits, tumults;


            1 Timothy 5:13
            New King James Version (NKJV)

            13 And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not.


            3 John 1:10
            New King James Version (NKJV)

            10 Therefore, if I come, I will call to mind his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words. And not content with that, he himself does not receive the brethren, and forbids those who wish to, putting them out of the church.

            • Dear Nit,

              Thank you for taking the time to write this all out. He who has ears . . .

              It is more than important that we are all coming from the same place (our faith) in defining particular words being used to divide the body of Christ. . . . . Do we not all call ourselves Christians?

  2. Fr. George Washburn says

    Hello friends:

    A day or two ago I posted a reference to George’s rhetoric here borrowing more from the thought form and language we see everyday in secular arenas where the culture wars are being “fought.” There it is common to hear someone damn his opponents with faint praise along the lines of “Well if ____ can do/say/think ____ then maybe there’s some hope for him after all.” Points are scored, at least in the minds of the speaker and those who like the way he rolls.

    i believe George’s intro to the Fr. Johannes piece, about which piece I am expressing nothing negative whatsoever, is an example of the phenomenon to which I was referring: the borrowing of thought and dialogue forms which are framed, whether consciously or not, more or less in terms of “friends” and “enemies.” So the fact that SVS is holding s seminar on poverty is cited by George to his “us” constituency as being a potential harbinger of hope for the abhorrent “thems” of the OCA. Or at least it sure does read that way.

    i think it is a shame to take issues that people need to discuss and work through and process them from the standpoint of the secular world’s language and categories. Wouldn’t we be truly Christian, truly Orthodox, if we instead just said “hurray” over this good initiative, and thanked God that it is a small but worthwhile step in the healing of the Body of Christ and the fulfilling of its mission in the world …rather than framing it as a sort of sneer?


    Fr. George

    • Knows the Score says

      Wouldn’t we be truly Christian, truly Orthodox, if we instead just said “hurray” over this good initiative…rather than framing it as a sort of sneer?

      You mean like you do whenever you write about George?

      • Fr. George Washburn says

        Of the ironies that manifest themselves on these pages, your standing claim to know not only the score, but also all about the game, teams, players, and rules, is one of the most baffling.

        As I see it you are unable or unwilling to distinguish between 1) serious critique on the issues and merits and 2) personal insults and sneers. I invite you to go back through my posts about George and find even one single personal insult by me against him.

        No doubt my tone could have been improved upon a couple of times, but sneers and insults I will not acknowledge w/o evidence; my apologies in advance, to George and to all, if the evidence is there.

  3. jacksson says

    They should have invited Paul Schroeder of Portland, Oregon (former GOA priest).. “He is the author and translator of On Social Justice: St. Basil the Great (SVS), and the creator of “Building the New City , a curriculum on homelessness for faith communities” currently in use by congregations throughout Portland . He is the former pastor of Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Portland. Check out:

    Paul wrote the book “On Social Justice” and it affected him so much that he resigned his priesthood and went to the streets to work with the poor and homeless. He is not an ivory tower type, he walks the talk.

    • Fr. Hans Jacobse says

      I can’t speak for Paul Schroeder’s organization because I don’t know anything about it but I do have a model that works.

      When I lived in Minneapolis I was involved with Trinity Mission, an Orthodox organization that grew into the largest private food bank in the state of Minnesota. I was the liaison between Trinity and the Greek Orthodox churches.

      As the food bank grew, dealing with the homeless became more pressing. We saw the homeless in two categories: transitional homeless and chronically homeless. We couldn’t do much about the chronically homeless because we were not equipped to deal with the causes — drug addiction, mental illness, and so forth.

      The transitional homeless we could do something about — and did. A Greek Orthodox parishioner gave us the use of a fourplex he owned in the city. We moved families into each apartment, paid the utilities, bought the food, a bus pass, diapers, needed clothing and so forth for four months. Within those four months they had enough time to get themselves back on their feet, and most of them did.

      Two of the best places for them to get their new start was McDonald’s and Walmart — businesses excoriated by the left but willing to hire anyone who would work. For many the stepping stone these jobs provided moved them back into economic self-sufficiency. Four months of no expenses allowed them to save money to rent a home, find better work down the line, and so forth.

      The greatest resistance we encountered was from the state-sponsored food banks. On several occasions they tried to shut us down. Fortunately Norm Coleman (lost the Minnesota Senate race to Al Franken in a contested election) was mayor of St. Paul at the time and came to our defense. Our success rate was higher than the state sponsored outfits.

      I generally don’t trust organizations that romanticize poverty. I am impressed with some ideas I see implemented in FOCUS that addresses the root causes of poverty, of which there are many.

      • jacksson says

        Sounds like you should be a speaker at the conference too. As a former university level educator, I just don’t trust these conferences where they bring in a bunch of big names and ivory tower types and they proceed to tell us how to do it without having been there personally.

        • Fr. Hans Jacobse says

          All we did was remove the barriers that prevented the unemployed from reentering the work force — an opportunity provided by businesses willing to take on the expense of training an employee, and giving our clients the opportunity save earnings to move into permanent housing. They had a permanent address, a way to get to work (bus pass), no expenses for four months, and so forth.

          That’s what free markets make possible.

          It works from the other direction too. The money spent for the families came from the already employed. People made enough beyond their needs that they could give some extra capital to help others.

  4. There are many problems in the OCA but aligning with libertarian values and with forces dedicated to the veneration of the market is hardly a solution to any of them. How defining the OCA in terms that appear objectively to be at odds with Holy Tradition but align with American style classical liberalism helps anything I cannot imagine.

    • Fr. Hans Jacobse says

      Anon, you need to check into this more. The ideas behind Poverty Cure are not libertarian. Also, I don’t see that having a conference on religion and poverty in anyway ‘defines the OCA’ or that the conference is ‘objectively at odds with Holy Tradition’? How so?

      Poverty Cure argues that expanding markets create wealth, and the creation of wealth is the only way that poverty can be eliminated. Think of the Parable of the Ten Talents here. One who creates more value than what he started with is praised. The one who hid his talent in the ground is condemned.

      • Father I will respond to your thoughtful post when I can. I will observe that I am hard pressed to believe that the meaning of the parable of the talents is found in market economics.

    • George Michalopulos says

      I don’t get that. Much of what you deplore as “libertarian” is merely the normal interchange between individuals. Some of it takes the form of barter, other times it’s money exchanging hands. The dirty little secret of economic systems is that the freer people are, the more they are free from want. I know thickheaded fools who worship Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro can’t understand this concept but it’s been a truism since time began.

      Government on the other hand wants to increase its reach into even the most intimate affairs of people. It’s almost blasphemous.

    • Tim R. Mortiss says

      I for one will take “American-style classical liberalism over Christian Monarchy or Great Leader of the People any day.

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