How many times do we say to ourselves, “I could have said it better?” 
When Is It Right To Break the Law?
The purpose of this short comment is not to address a subject that goes back to Plato and Socrates and has been profusely debated through the centuries by philosophers and legal minds, the intellectual stature of whom this author admires. But to make a few important points in the special circumstances we all live in.
When it comes to limiting (to the point of abolishing) basic freedoms, such as the freedom of religion, how can we accept that a law imposed by local or state authorities has absolute validity in front of our Constitution? Especially when this specific local law allows liquor stores and lotto outlets to remain open while it completely shuts down the freedom of practicing our religion. When all kinds of “drive through” sales are allowed but “drive through” religious services are prohibited, then we are faced with an inequitable application of this law – and we have every right to protest it and demand an equitable restoration of our constitutional rights.
In addition, anyone who has spent time studying and practicing the Law can recognize that all laws have to be enforced with a degree of flexibility that will allow them not to become oppressive. Laws are “absolute” by their nature, and in their absoluteness there is an inherent possibility of excessive “oppressiveness” in their enforcement. Example: While the highway speed limit is set at 55 mph, it is extremely rare that the police will stop us unless we exceed 65 mph, at a minimum… Should I also note here that last year almost 39,000 people in the US died in car accidents? There is a tacit “consensus”, in the law community and in society at large, that in the enforcement of laws a certain flexibility is required.
In view of the above thoughts it was extremely discouraging that our Church decided to slavishly obey all the state and local directives about the “lockdown”. Especially since the “Prince of Darkness”, Fr.Karloutsos, does not miss an opportunity to advertise his special ties to Gov. Cuomo… The GOA could have taken the initiative and unite with the Catholic Church and other churches and demand that the same rules that apply to liquor stores and lotto services apply to churches… AB Elpidophoros could have taken the initiative on his own, and this could have been his “Martin Luther King moment”. Unfortunately, he acts like a “fish out of the water”… In essence, he is a first year immigrant to New York, and, as if this was not enough of an obstacle, he chose to be encircled by a group of about ten also immigrants, “advisers” from Constantinople or Greece, who end up further limiting his touch to the wider American society… They all live together in the headquarters of 79th Street, which has now turned into a monastic enclave…
We could have achieved limited church services – a few people (40-50) per Church keeping the established “social distances” and determined by lottery or alternation during the several services of the Holy Week… We could have proposed and practiced other sensible measures regarding the distribution of the “Holy Light”… But GOA chose to completely subject to the secular authorities and in the process they helped abolish – even temporarily – constitutionally protected “freedom of religion” rights. These rights were very rarely suspended in many centuries of plagues and other catastrophes humanity was faced with. Even worse, when they performed services “streamed online”, AB Elpidophoros and his assistants, appeared to keep very close together, not practicing the same “social distancing” rules everybody else is supposed to follow.
All crises are opportunities, as we all know. Particularly for the Church of Christ, which has historically grown through responding to human tragedies, being next to the people and supporting them every step of the way. This year’s lockdown practices regarding the Church were a complete and unmitigated disaster with wider implications, which I am sure we will have time to discuss. If one considers the incalculable financial and legal troubles GOA and the Church as a whole is in, there is no doubt that we are entering a time of existential crisis the magnitude of which was never seen before…
April 19, 2020, n.stamatakis@aol.com www.helleniscope.com
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Civil rights and human rights often seem to get wrongly taken for each other these days. A day or two ago I witnessed an overly opinionated Fox News host assert that the right of Americans to bear arms was given by God, but he was — as he often is — mistaken. That vaunted right, so dear to the political right, is articulated in the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. It was not handed down by God on Mt Sinai or expressed in the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who actually suggested at several points that we Christians would do well to avoid the use of weapons altogether.
As an aside, and observing that no other nation on Earth has a federal law guaranteeing to civilians the right to keep and bear arms, I personally think that the Second Amendment ought to be repealed, since — like other constitutional amendments which we have repealed — the parameters of its adoption no longer obtain.
Without getting into a detailed discussion of the differences between these two categories of rights, we should realize that all rights emplaced by civil law are civil rights, not human rights, and that they can be displaced by competent civil authorities whenever the need arises. This feature of civil law is exactly what made it possible for Abraham Lincoln, as president and commander-in-chief, to suspend _habeas corpus_ and its attendant procedures during the American Civil War: the welfare of the nation demanded that we temporarily forego such niceties.
The same is true in our own time. During this plague, people are rightly forbidden by law to gather in groups so as to minimize the contagion of COVID-19, and that necessarily includes gatherings for worship in public. The restriction is not directed at religious assemblies; it merely (as it must) includes them.
Even so, those restrictions are not always enough, and not just because some people are so ignorant or so wrong-headed that they will gather in groups anyway No, sometimes people get infected because their responsibilities require them to serve the sick and move among them in the course of their work. This is true not only of medical personnel and people who work in grocery stores and pharmacies, but even of the clergy,
Just today, for instance, I learned that — in spite of the churches’ being closed to the laity — forty-nine priests in the Moscow region of Russia have been infected. One, so far, has died.
God bless all the good and brave people who are putting their health and their very lives at risk to help the rest of us during this plague. May the Lord help us to see what is truly real and necessary in these terrible days, and keep us focused on Christ instead of on our petty inconveniences.
There are a couple of problems with your arguments:
1) Lincoln was a president, not a governor.
2) We are not in the middle of a civil war.
3) This is not something that threatened the nation; the impact varied from state to state.
4) We didn’t (still don’t) know the nature of the virus so we have no way of knowing if the various measures that were employed worked or to what degree.
Not until all is said and done, and we KNOW the true mortality rate and we KNOW the true extent of the economic loss, not to mention the ongoing losses as a result of some of the decisions that were made, can we reach any conclusions about whether or not the draconian measures they implemented were necessary.
With respect to the 49 priests who have been infected, “what does this have to do with the price of bread,” as they say? The virus is an equal opportunity employer when it comes to victims. It doesn’t care if you’re a priest! And if you’re a member of the laity and attended a service, you are just as likely to contract the virus ((actually more because you have more contact with them) from a family member, a neighbor or anyone else you routinely pass during the course of your day. They say we will each likely infect 6 other people! I don’t know if I believe it, but that’s what they’re saying.
Yes, God bless people like George for going into his job every day so he can dispense medications. And if we’re blessing George, I guess we should bless the people who own and operate liquor stores and cannabis shops, who also have to go into the fray to deliver “essential” items to the public.
And bless the decision makers who thought it would be a good idea to open the very places that attract the greatest number of disparate people, like grocery stores, for example, for giving people the opportunity to walk around and infect many other people, as opposed to insisting they expand the use of curbside assistance or delivery, which they are already equipped to do. So much better to shut down a tiny business that sees a handful of people a day [snark].
And finally, we need to bless the American people who will have to pay for all this.
Oh, dear Gail, while I stand by my words and the concepts they represent, I fear that we are approaching this problem from very different angles, and my view of them is not the same as yours, which I think is biased.
I don’t do politics, so I observe the comments coming from the left and from the right with equal skepticism.
At the moment, though, the political right seems a bit more distant from the sad reality which we are all now experiencing. Complain as you will about the efforts of government to keep people safe, what are you going to do with all those corpses? How will you explain that many deaths?
I would agree we are approaching this from different angles and the fact that there are different angles means there are biases. . . on both sides.
I’m not sure I understand what, “I don’t do politics,” means from your point of view. To me, politics means “activities associated with the governance of a country or other area.” But that’s the literal definition. If you choose to talk about “activities” in response to the virus implemented by various governments, that’s politics.
I don’t doubt that you see yourself as an impartial observant who views both sides with equal skepticism. How can I argue with how you see yourself? I can tell you that you and I are not seeing the same thing.
You want to know what I’m going to do with all those corpse and explain that many deaths? That’s a loaded question, isn’t it? The corpses speak for themselves. This is a very nasty virus, Father.
I know you don’t “do politics” but you just made a political statement: What makes you think the political right is more distant from the sad reality we are all experiencing?
First, please name who falls under the “political right” so I know to whom you are referring and then tell me the “sad reality.”
It’s an emergency, world-wide. The responses of a great many very disparate nations are similar: the various restrictions that we all know about and endure. These responses aren’t just the anomalous ideas of certain malign elites; they seem to be, largely and relatively, somewhat universal. This gives them a peculiar, indeed perhaps unique, authority.
Of course, the ultimate issue is: how long? If normality can begin to be restored relatively soon, then it will be a very different matter than if the opposite is the case.
But as for me, I’m sure it’s not a conspiracy, and I’m sure it’s not somehow directed against the Church, or will have any effect on it at all. It will prove to be an interesting footnote in the never-ending chronicle of human affairs.
Very well said., Tim
I don’t see it as a conspiracy against the church either
Church services just happen to be an ideal place for this virus to circulate
In a space with scores of people in close proximity breathing ,talking, coughing,etc.
We’re not magically immune just because we’re in Church.
I don’t like the situation either but God knows our needs and I believe
He comforts and sustains us mystically. God ACTS in our life, I think sometimes we forget this, I don’t think His hands are tied because we’re being kept away!
Thank you again Tim
My reaction having seen all those demonstrators waving American flags and carrying any sort of weapons, was to say I would want to know if anyone in their family was a front line health care worker and whether anyone in their family had died of the virus. Anyone want to venture a guess as to what the answer to either question would be?
Why would you assume the protesters were carrying weapons? I would think that’s the LAST thing they would be doing considering they could be arrested at any point for exercising their constitutional rights. Let that sink in for a moment.
So, what you’re saying is that people who wave the American flag must also be carrying guns and couldn’t possibly be the same people who care for the sick or have suffered the loss of a family member to COVID?
Because I’m not getting your point, especially the part about losing a family member to COVID, as we have ALL lost family members, to any number of things, and I assure you, the pain is the same. (Unless your child has died in your arms, I wouldn’t argue with me on this point because I will win.)
I can attest my own husband, your gracious host, is a American, flag waving citizen who carries a weapon and in SPITE being a prime candidate for dying of COVID, is a front line care worker who does the job he signed up for without giving it a second thought. He carries a gun, too, because he’s had one pulled on him during the course of doing his job. Your point?
To tug on the heartstrings of others usually does not help people better understand an issue. We know people are dying, Alitheia, and we know it’s painful to family members and to the country at large.
But just because COVID is the newest kid on the block, does not make it “special.” We’ve given it a wide berth for a few months now and we are no closer to definitively stating it’s the “bully” it originally portended to be or not. It’s just new. We have to let the numbers tell the complete story and we can’t take away people’s rights and their livelihood in the interim. Not for an extended period of time.
We worry about deaths from COVID but I wonder how many people have taken a nosedive in the mental health department. Confinement is generally reserved as a punishment and for good reason. I’m under solitary confinement for 10 hours a day and it’s rough. It’s changing me, too. My grandmother used to say, “The less you do the less you want to do.” I’m finding that is true. Losses? I signed a contingency letter for employment 6 months ago to accept a very lucrative position that depended upon the State of Oklahoma making a decision by the end of March. I couldn’t even think of taking another job after signing that letter. But because of COVID, that job is permanently on hold and, of course, there are no other jobs. My financial obligations, however, are still the same.
It’s depressing, but unlike other people, I am not destitute or buried in debt. I did not lose my family’s business that took generations to build. More importantly, I am not anywhere close to being suicidal, although it is depressing as hell to be confined to one’s home and not be able to buy what I need to buy or get things done that need doing or do something essential like GO TO CHURCH AND TAKE THE EUCHARIST.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to let the people who are at risk (or afraid they’re at risk) to take the measures they need to take to protect themselves? For those who are willing to take the risk of contracting the virus (now, vs. later) can’t we be allowed to live our lives? Again, WE’RE ALL GOING TO BE EXPOSED TO IT. It’s just a fact. We cannot outrun it and there is no way we’re going to be able to continue to remain holed up like this until a vaccine comes out.
As usual, one should be very leery of engaging in a debate with the lovely Gail. (Word to the wise: I usually wind up on the losing end.)
Having said that, she is correct in all particulars. People are suffering and if I may say so, very needlessly. It pains me to see my wife suffer for no good reason. She is a productive person who has much to contribute while being gainfully employed. There are millions like her the world over. It’s not like we’re asking for the sun, moon and stars for just wanting to go to our businesses. When this is over and all is said and done, the powers-that-be must be held to account.
Plenty of front-line health workers have called BS on this whole thing.
Also, if we want to go down the emotional argument route – what about all these videos of healthcare workers dancing in hospitals? Is that not insensitive too? Probably more so, I would argue. It’s crass and indefensible, unlike average American citizens simply asking for their right to go back to work and not starve to death in the coming months.
Alithea, if I may come to Gail’s defense on this point as well: why is it that so many Americans –even in Blue states–always assume that protesters are armed? And also, why is that a bad thing?
The fact that these questions are being raised is particularly distressing to me in that it indicates that which I have long feared: that we are becoming two distinct nations and cultures, with very little in common anymore.
I can assure you, that our Founding Fathers would never have deigned to question the propriety of being armed, even in casual situations. And that even goes for the “liberal” ones.
The issue of open carry of firearms is a fraught one in most parts of the country. Always has been.
In Washington State, open carry is mostly allowed, but almost never seen, unlike in some states. This has always been the case, even before everblue status.
Here, you can get a concealed pistol license by applying, paying a modest fee, and being fingerprinted and undergoing an FBI background check. Unless disqualified by criminal record, its ‘shall issue’.
I would never open-carry, whatever the legality. All it does is alarm the citizenry, does no good, and in the long run militates in favor of gun-control activists.
I conceal-carry myself.
Oh, please. Spare me the argument from insensitivity. The silver bullet in this whole scam would be if the newspapers and tv always showed two sets of numbers: total number (allegedly, according to fake criteria) of Kungflu deaths vs. total number of common flu deaths to date in the US.
Seen in perspective, this “pandemic” is insignificant. God bless those in Pennsylvania and Kentucky who came out armed and protested the lock down. This is where the rubber meets the road. Of course the govt is going to come up with some stupid excuse to trample rights. They at least have to pay lip service to some concern. That is always how it happens regardless of the rationalization. They’re protecting us by depriving us of rights.
If a violent stand need be made on this hill, it is just as good as any.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Dear Gail, I wouldn’t so much name people on the political right as I would use language to let them identify themselves.
In common speech these days, people often confuse the noun loan with the verb lend. They are unaware that fewer refers to things which can be counted, while less describes things which can be measured. It isn’t clear, to me at least, on what this ignorance of the language can be blamed, but such substandard, low speech is now rampant,
As only one example of how this works in politics, I’ve observed that when people on the political right choose not to refer to the political left as, say, the ‘Democratic Party’ — properly using an adjective — but prefer to call it the ‘Democrat Party’ — intentionally and deliberately misusing a noun — this is a political statement, not a sign of ignorance in the use of their native language.
It’s just that they can’t bring themselves to describe their opposition as ‘democratic’, and think that by abusing the language they somehow deny them that designation. In reality, though, it merely makes the political right seem foolish as they stumble over a modern shibboleth and unwittingly, perhaps, identify their allegiances. It’s something like the remark of the serving girl in the courtyard of the high priest when she confronted St Peter bout his Galilean accent: ‘Even your speech betrays you.’
Just to emphasize my point, I recently witnessed Donald Trump explain this substandard usage in a news clip, asserting that ‘Democrat Party’ was the ‘correct’ expression. It is not, and he is mistaken.
It’s better than the word “deplorables.”
“Just to emphasize my point, I recently witnessed Donald Trump explain this substandard usage in a news clip, asserting that ‘Democrat Party’ was the ‘correct’ expression. It is not, and he is mistaken.”
Who cares? All I know is this: The Democratic party represents abortion on demand, euthanasia, gay “marriage”, transgender bathroom rights, planned parenthood, etc.
In 2012, it was clear that their platform verbally voted to remove God (even though they didn’t do it).
I have never voted for a democrat…and I never will until the day I die.
Monk James Silver, I won’t quibble with your quibble over whether to call the jackass party Democrat or Democratic.
Although it’s funny that you seem to think it’s a badge of honor to call it Democratic. Especially considering your vaunted claim of love for the Constitution.
While technically a Republic is a form of democracy, a Republic is far superior to democracy, which has been aptly described as mob rule. Here is democracy: Imagine you have 25 people in your club and that you are going to decide whether to build a new clubhouse, and all 25 members vote on the issue. That is pure “democracy” and it works well enough with small numbers of people. (Unless, of course, you find yourself in a minority, which is easily oppressed by the majority. )
The United States of America is not a democracy, thank God and the Founders, but a Constitutional republic — which means first that we are guided by the rule of law. The Constitution that you claim to be so faithful to. Secondly it means that we elect public officials (a “republic” or a “republican” form of government) to decide our laws and maintain organized governmental structures on every level from local to state to federal.
Hence the choice of the Republican Party to name itself after the Republic.
Infinitely superior.
Just imagine if every decision made by the federal government in Washington, DC today, from budgetary matters to forestry laws, required that all eligible citizens vote on the issues, all 330 million of us. There would be utter chaos. Nothing would get done because the nation would be immersed in a constant and never-ending political campaign as bill after bill after bill came up for a vote and we all ran to the polls dozens of times or hundreds of times every year. Then citizens would often end up being asked to vote on an issue that they have no clue about, i.e., people in New York City voting on laws about forests in Oregon.
It is infinitely more efficient and rational to operate an organized governmental structure with elected officials deciding the legislation than to participate in person-by-person voting on every issue. In short, a republic is infinitely more desirable and orderly than a democracy. Again, this is why the “Republican” party in America is infinitely superior to the “Democratic” party.
James Madison, the ‘father’ of the US Constitution, wrote in the Federalist Papers:
“Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths…”
“In a democracy the people meet and exercise the government in person; in a republic they assemble and administer it by their representatives and agents. A democracy, consequently, must be confined to a small spot. A republic may be extended over a large region.”
Like it or not, Monk James Silver, “For the first time in U.S. history, an administration is responding to a crisis with deregulation and decentralization,” (writes Christopher DeMuth in The Wall Street Journal.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-rewrites-the-book-on-emergencies-11587142872
Yup. Deplorable Donald Trump is doing that.
What he has done and is doing is infinitely more important than whether he uses the correct word to describe your favorite party.
I think your claim that you don’t “do politics” is kind of false. What does that mean to you?
Perhaps that means you don’t publicly admit to preferring the Democrat(ic) Party to the Republican Party? Or perhaps that means you abstain from voting?
Doesn’t matter.
As I said earlier, politics is nothing more or less than simply figuring out how we are going to treat each other.
Ronda, thank you for this wonderful, concise excursus on the difference between democracy and republic.
At the risk of being cynical however, whenever people are asked to vote on something directly –that is to say democratically–(like gay “marriage”), each time they voted the their conscience and common sense, it was decided by the oligarchy (via their agents in the kritarchy), that they had voted “wrong”. Between 1996 and 2012, the question of gay “marriage” came up for vote in 32 states and in every one of those states –blue ones like California included–the people voted to preserve marriage as historically understood.
Leftists like to utter the shibboleth of democracy except when it doesn’t suit them. Just sayin’.
Monk James Silver are you actually JFK, jr? Are you Q? My friends told my you plan to emerge from your 20-year hiatus from public life by coming out and supporting Trump as your running mate in 2020.
Monk James, whatever the reality of the virus and the need to take restrictive precautions–your understanding of the U S Constitution is defective.
Now I would be glad to have a discussion of “natural rights” and their origins as perceived by our Founders (they came from a Providential God as an essential part of our humanity), but it is unlikely to be fruitful.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
With regard to the American constitution, I’ve usually found myself a ‘strict constructionist’, allowing the words of that document to speak for themselves in their plain meaning. This is one of the reasons for which I say that I don’t do politics, which try to bend that document to their own contemporary interpretations.
Lately, though, another term describing my position respecting the historical circumstances of the American constitution’s adoption — and its language — has arisen. That term is ‘originalist’, and I like it.
Monk James Silver, I meant to ask you about your assertion that you don’t “do politics.”
I am curious what that means to you. I assume that means you don’t embrace any particular party? Do you vote?
To you, is politics something that is somehow rarefied? Too philosphical, or distant from the everyday concerns of everyday people? Esoteric? Elevated?
There was a time when I disdained politics as well. But now it occurs to me that politics is not something rarefied at all. It’s nothing more than figuring out how we are going to treat each other.
Monk James, if you are an originalist then you are a political man. Of course if you read the 10th Amendment with an originalist mind, roughly 90% of what the Federal Government does is un-Constitutional as their “powers” are not enumerated in the Constitution. Most famous case: Roe v. Wade where it was decided that the right to abortion was in the penumbra of the Constitution.
The 16th and 17th Amendments were the death knell of our federalist constitutional republic not to mention the less than originalist understanding of the 14th Amendment and the fascist interpretation of the commerce clause.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Mr Bauman, as someone with a sense of himself as a constitutional originalist, I resist being described as political. I much prefer to think of myself as historical.
The differences and distinctions between these two positions are clear enough.
Which is more important? How we perceive ourselves or how others perceive us?
It’s not vanity. I am much more concerned with how I am perceived by others. I can’t operate in the world without knowing how people see me and I am constantly making adjustments to these perceptions to fit the circumstances.
If I am asked to lead a large project, I have be perceived as a leader. If I am presented with someone who wants to come into the Faith, I have be perceived as being part of something worthy to join. To my daughter, I have be perceived as her protector. To my husband, I have be perceived as his helpmate. To my friends, I have be perceived as someone worthy of keeping their secrets. Otherwise, of what use am I?
These are not attributes one can easily pull out of thin air, which is why I think it is crucial to live in community. Our brains and our experiences are insufficient tools to mold us into what is useful. To stop caring about being useful is to stop growing. God did not plop us down in the middle of a deserted island. One day, we are going to have to account for the time we spent smack dab in the middle of a bustling universe, populated with billions of people, just like us, who were all created in His image.
There is this weird little feature on a site called Classmates where people are able to describe how they remember you. These are people you may have known decades ago. In my case, I barely remember who they are but it is fascinating to read what they say. One of the things I see over and over again is that I was “ambitious.” Was I? I missed 3 months of my senior year. I never went to school when it rained because I couldn’t wear flip flops. Some photographer caught me sitting on a wall outside of class one day and said, “What are you doing out here?” I said, “I don’t know. Spring fever, maybe?” (I had skipped French class many times and it wasn’t just in the spring.) Turns out he was a photographer for the Arizona Daily Star and under the local news section of the paper that Sunday was a huge picture of me under the heading, “Spring Fever?” with a few other pithy comments I had made about why I chose not to go to class. (By way of explanation, it was a slow news week and this was Tucson.) My mother, being a teacher, was not amused. My French teacher was not amused. There were one or two teachers who seemed to be on to me, though. One was a preschool teacher who wrote in my report card: “Gail does really well when she is in charge. But if she is not in charge, she doesn’t want to play.” I remember in high school a science teacher telling me, “Gail, you rarely come to class but exert a lot of effort a day or two before finals. If you put forth a more consistent effort that B would easily turn into an A.” I remember thinking: “What did I need an A for? A B was good enough to keep my parents off my back.”
Ambitious? Naw, I was pragmatic.
Not so surprisingly, I got marginal grades (I’m talking more Cs than Bs) my first two years of college. What was surprising is that my parents never said a word about my grades and my mother had always lauded it over my head that she had graduated summa cum laude. I was expecting her to lower the boom at every juncture but she never said a word. She seemed quite pleased I was majoring in Sigma Nu. However, around my junior year, I got bored with all the parties and because I was then allowed to take upper division classes, school suddenly became a lot more interesting.
It was then that I got the call (the lowering the boom one) and my mother was not pleased. . .
* * *
Mother: “Gail, I need to get your father on the extension because this is serious. Al? Al? I’ve got Gail on the phone. Can you pick up? AL, PICK UP THE PHONE!!! (He picks up.) “So, Gail, we have a problem. We got another letter from the Dean’s office today.”
Me: “Oh, yeah?” (Great. Just great. What did I do now?)
Mother: “This is your senior year, Gail, and this is not the first letter we have received.” (Oh, this is not good. She’s using her school teacher voice.)
Me: “Ah, so. . .?” (Gee, I hated these mandatory weekly calls with my parents. They ruined my whole weekend.)
Mother: “Why do you think think your father and I sent you to school? Al? Al?? Al, are you even on the phone? AL? Tell her.”
Pop: (Silence)
Me: “I’m not understanding the problem. The Dean didn’t send you a letter saying I did something wrong, did he?” (Of course there was that one party where Danny White tore off his clothes and jumped in the Sigma Nu pool on a dare, but it wasn’t MY fault someone got a picture and he had to sit out a game!)
Mother: “No.”
Me: “He probably sent you a letter saying I was getting 4.0s. What’s the problem?” (I threw that last thing in there hoping that whatever the Dean wrote her would be mitigated by the fact that I was getting good grades. Did I mention she was a teacher? Oh, yeah, I did.)
Mother: “He said you have gotten 4.0s for the LAST 4 SEMESTERS!!! Oh my God, Gail, you are about to graduate. Why do you think we sent you to school? Al? Al??? Are you still there? Say something, Al!”
Me: “Huh?” (Ok, this was my third semester of my senior year and I was suddenly drawing blanks. This wasn’t just an idle question. I had no idea why was I in college! If I could hum the theme to the Twilight Zone I would be doing it right now.)
Mother: “We sent you to school to find a husband and you’re clearly not socializing enough.” (Ok, so in my defense no one told me that. I had been dating the president of Sigma Nu and had just told my parents he was not “the one.”) – Pregnant pause. (No, I was NOT pregnant. It is a pause in the conversation when everyone is kind of speechless. It probably sounded weird to my mother, a TEACHER, to hear these words come out of her mouth, as well.)
Mother: “What are you going to do when you graduate?” (Ok, another question I didn’t have the answer to. It never occur to me what I was going to do.)
* * *
The reason this conversation stops right here is because, (1) I couldn’t answer her and (2) my mother always had to have the last word.
How could I possibly have been seen as “ambitious?” That’s the last word I would have used to describe myself. But, you know? Maybe I was. I was ambitious about what pleased me. I needed to expand my awareness and include other people.
My point? We don’t really know ourselves until it is revealed. The way we are perceived cannot be dismissed. If we see ourselves as lovable or as experts in this or that, and are not embraced by others in the same capacity to the same degree, it means nothing. We need to use the people God has placed in our lives as our mirrors and pay attention to the reflection. That’s what’s going to happen at the end of days. God is going to be looking for His image. If we’re not projecting it, we’ll be in trouble. It will make no difference how we see ourselves in our head.
P.S. As an aside, my mother was good at shaping perceptions when she said she graduated summa cum laude. I found her transcripts in her things after she passed. She barely got Cs.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Dear Gail, when you write ‘Which is more important? How we perceive ourselves or how others perceive us?’, you seem to be suggesting that this is an either/or proposition, and that the reader must choose one or the other of these two possibilities.
But I, on the other hand, think that neither of these two options is important at all. Rather, what I value is the great grace of knowing who we ourselves really are in our hearts and souls and minds, not especially concerning ourselves with what we falsely put forth as a public persona or — even less — with whatever impressions others might have formed of us.
Our Lord Jesus Christ tells us that when we mean ‘yes’ we should say ‘yes’, and ‘no’ when we mean ‘no’, since everything else comes from the Devil.
Shakespeare corroborates this: ‘To thine own self be true, for as it followeth the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.’
But truth is not defined by what you mean. It is defined by what is. If you fail to take into consideration the things people tell you about yourself, you’re missing a big part of what is.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Probably not, dear Gail.
Although truth itself is always an objective reality, it often happens that popular opinion is wrong about things, especially regarding general concepts of particular people. History is replete with examples of this, most noticeably when when the majority are mistaken.
Consider the dictum which (among other things) provoked the convocation of the first ecumenical synod at Nikaia in A.D. 325: ‘One day, the world woke up to find itself Areian.’
Indeed, people are often mistaken, and sometimes even the majority of them are wrong.
Yes, Christ Is Risen Truly Risen!
You and I could have a very long conversation about Truth. Truth is not an objective reality. It is what is. Everything else is just our attempt to explain it.
This is why I am so big on living in community. You only know part of the Truth. I only know part of the Truth. Together we know more about the Truth than we can or would separately.
Well, I perceive you as A++ in the “help-meet department”.
“Ambitious? Naw, I was pragmatic.”
O how I do relate to this, Gail.
Truth be told, I got good grades in school overall. But it is probably only because most subjects came easy to me, and my mind naturally connected with the practical usefulness of some forms of knowledge. But excelling in anything merely for the sake of good grades seemed a bothersome waste of effort that served no real long-term purpose in life.
Two examples, the second of which is something of a confession.
High School economics assignment: Pick 10 stocks and report on your investment performance.
In those days you had to find them in the tiny print of the newspaper that the teacher posted on the wall every day. Everyone was trying to pick the best stocks and make the most money, but they failed to grasp the assignment which had nothing to do with good investment performance. I picked the first ten stocks on the list and was finished with my daily tracking in five seconds while everyone else wasted their time searching for their stocks. I got an A.
High School history assignment: Trace your ancestry as far back as you can. (This was in the late 70’s when the TV series “Roots” was wildly popular).
I had just read a book (both for pleasure and for a book report in another class) about life in a Lenni Lenape Native American tribe. I thought, “How is this teacher possibly going to judge the accuracy of what I turn in?” I traced it back as far as I already knew and added a bit of Lenni Lenape ‘color’ to the story of my blood line while everyone else was up late into the evenings calling their grandparents and driving themselves crazy trying to find out the facts. I got an A. (God forgive me). As it turns out, anything I ever want to know now about my ancestry has since been exhaustively researched and shared by my cousin.
Interestingly enough, I am not now – nor have I ever been – lazy as one might conclude. I just never could see the purpose of jumping through pointless hoops.
Oh, but you did, dear! And you were marvelous at it! No one escapes jumping through meaningless hoops.
True. I am forced to do so every day. primarily those created by our government.
Monk James –
Humility is in order. First, you need to understand that your opinion of gun rights is not dogma, but is your opinion. That opinion is contradicted by the opinions of other theologians, priests, and monastics in the Orthodox Church:
https://russian-faith.com/orthodox-view-legalization-short-barreled-weapons-n2162
While you may think that the 2nd Amendment does not reflect a right of self-defense granted by God, quite a number of other Orthodox thinkers beg to differ. Since many of them are Russians who know first hand the results of disarming civil society, I take their opinions very seriously.
Second, why is this a left/right issue? Many of the governors who have issued shelter-in-place orders are actually Republicans, and at least nominally “right-wing.” The facts will eventually reveal that this was an over-reaction to a not particularly serious threat. Leftists and rightists both have jobs and need to get back to them. Leftists and rights have families they need to feed. This is not a political issue, really. It is a threat to the very economic life of our society. Both Republican and Democratic officials have blown this virus completely out-of-proportion and the future will bear that out. Even now, medical professionals are disagreeing with the measures taken. There may be consensus among “official” scientists in Washington, but among the wider scientific community there is a lot of push back that the cure is worse than the disease.
Worse, some in the wider scientific community warned that segregating people will just prolong the problem but they were ignored.
How we handle these things should have/could have been decided way before it happened. It’s not like they didn’t have meetings about just this sort of thing. We should have had mitigation plans in place, i.e. if this happens, we’re going to do this, if that happens we’re going to do that, and regardless, we should have stocked our shelves with needed supplies.
Instead, we find ourselves in the position of having to make knee jerk decisions based on fear. We are undoubtedly going to suffer a second wave when the doors are again opened and people previously unexposed are going to all be exposed all at once. Hopefully, most will have already been exposed and fewer will get as sick as we’ve seen, but what does that say about the decision to tank the economy? Was it necessary? Could we not have kept the people most at risk inside by just making the suggestion?
I think they should have encouraged the least likely to be impacted by the virus to go on with their lives and ENCOURAGED THEM THROUGH INCENTIVES. They should have given those most at risk INCENTIVES TO STAY HOME. They could have then release those who are at most risk in waves so as not to overwhelm our healthcare system.
Incentives would not have shut down businesses and tanked the economy.
Because we have locked everyone down at once, those likely to become the most ill are still going to come out all at once. We just don’t know how many there are. My guess is that those who will become sick are more likely to be those who stayed home because they are the least mobile.
I wrote about incentives several week ago. Crickets.
And for all the screaming about silent carriers, why are the people most at risk able to work in liquor stores and cannabis dispensaries, etc. George still goes to work every day in a pharmacy. They compensate businesses for shutting down, but not employees. If an employee is at high risk why isn’t the government giving him a salary to stay home. Why aren’t people who are at a lower risk given combat pay for going into work? A better question is why would you not incentivise someone to stay home if they are at the greater risk of getting sick and becoming a silent carrier? Do we really want the most vulnerable manning the stores?
There are a lot of great minds out there but, unfortunately, we live in a climate of fear. Every decision we make is fear based. And those making these decisions are unwilling to consider hard realities like there is only so much we can do.
As for those who criticize Trump, they are way off base. He followed all the guidelines. . . I wish he hadn’t. But he didn’t have a choice. He would have been crucified for looking at this situation more objectively and Congress would have overruled him anyway.
And then you have all these governors. Our own governor can’t do business in other states because he was with one of the fifteen shadiest lenders in the government-backed mortgage industry, according to one article, which has only partially been refuted and not in every state. I guess he is better than the Tiger King, who got 19% of the vote when he ran for governor, but better by how much, I couldn’t say. Neither should be making life or death decisions. Most governors are not equipped or talented enough to call the shots when it comes to a crisis like this. They’re particularly bad at healthcare, which is why Medicaid is so screwed up.
The first ten amendments (Bill of Rights) of our Constitution give structure to the statement that all men are “endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” I can’t think of any more fundamental God-given natural right than protecting one’s own life when necessary.
Attempting to reason with, say, home invaders is a losing proposition.
Concerning our rights in the United States. The Constitution does not establish rights, but because certain representatives to the constitutional convention were very nervous that the constitution would not limit the Federal Government enough, we were given the Bill of Rights which enumerated certain important limits on the Government but was in way intended to be understood as a complete listing of the rights of the people. The philosophy behind the source of our rights is not found in the Constitution, which enumerates the powers of the Federal Government and at the same time constrains it very clearly from taking certain actions. No, you need to look at the Declaration of Independence, which is also very clear.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
The Preamble to the Constitution succinctly reiterates the principals but you are correct. But in any case we pretty well lost our Constitutional Republic at the Civil War. It has been trending to a fascist oligarchy ever since.
It’s corpse still flops around every now and then but there long ago ceased to be any genuine “consent of the governed”.
It’s official funeral was pronounced by Solzhenitsyn in 1978.
Great article, the more these people get called out the better. Between this, the monasteries and the good priests/laity, there is still hope for GOARCH yet. It would be a huge travesty to lose them, or, the whole EP for that matter. Maybe people in GOARCH are starting to realize the meaning of the phrase “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” It happened to Rome and it is happening to the EP too, it must be stopped before it is too late
It’s too late
‘ How many times do we say to ourselves, “I could have said it better?” ‘
Oscar Wilde: “I wish I had said that!”
Frank Harris: “Don’t worry, Oscar. You will!”
“All crises are opportunities, as we all know.”
Indeed. Satan never misses a good (or bad) crisis.
How true, Brendan. If he is not the author of a crisis, he never misses the party.
Dear Nick (and George): Thank you for this great article. Nick wrote – We could have achieved limited church services – a few people (40-50) per Church keeping the established “social distances” and determined by lottery or alternation during the several services of the Holy Week…
I have made this contention all along, including today before I read this article. If we were allowed to serve four Liturgies per week and allow 25% of our parishioners to attend each of those liturgies (staying socially distanced) our parishioners could commune once per week until this all gets resolved. People have to start thinking outside of this fear-based box that we have been forced into.
frd+
I completely agree, Father.
Easy for for him to say …. He sounds like a typical armchair quarterback who comes in with his wise counsel only in retrospect. If you have something to say, say it before the fact. At least then you might achieve a reasonable standard of accountability.
Monk James, all natural rights are by definition, God-given.
Sometimes the medicine is extremely distasteful.
This is our medicine, hopefully, we will not need a second dose.
Christ is risen, truly risen!
Dear George, I wrote of two kinds of rights, civil and human, although I preferred not to delineate the differences between those two categories.
. Although human rights might possibly be subsumed under the rubric of natural rights, I purposely did not introduce the concept of natural rights at all, which — if you think about it — can overlap both human and civil rights, sometimes being expressed in law. In any event, civil rights are, by definition, always granted by law, and they can be taken away by law.
The concept of natural rights is grist for another mill.
The problem with the “rights” paradigm is that natural rights flowing from a Providential God creating a just and equitable society have been replaced by personal rights enforced against others creating a tyranical and capricious society in which ideology is the key, not God.
Monk James, you wrote:
“At the moment… the political right seems a bit more distant from the sad reality which we are all now experiencing. Complain as you will about the efforts of government to keep people safe, what are you going to do with all those corpses? How will you explain that many deaths?”
As they say, hindsight is 20/20. For that reason, your question is valid, to some extent. It did appear at first that this virus was extremely virulent and deadly.
At this moment, however, we know otherwise.
At first, since no one wants to see people die, we did what we were told. Even though what we were told was based on a model that predicted dire consequences when that very model was based on doing nothing, which was never going to happen.
We could have noted that ourselves, but we didn’t. We all dutifully obeyed. Well, not all. And that should have raised some questions in our minds as well. Did it?
And at this point, if you are paying attention — and many people are not — we now know that far more people have been infected with this virus than previously assumed, and they didn’t even know it! They had no symptoms!
That means this virus is not nearly as virulent and deadly as we thought. As we were told. And there were plenty of people who were skeptical from the gitgo, even some experts. People have chosen which experts to listen to, and the experts have been all over the map.
For example, there is no direct evidence that “social distancing” has anything to do with this curve we are trying to “flatten”. The only way we could be sure it would work would be if the government made the recommendations absolute law and enforced them as such.
Since they didn’t, we *don’t know* — because there is no way we could have known who is and who is NOT observing the recommendations/impositions.
And if you are paying attention, you know that Sweden imposed NONE of these restrictions, and their death rate is lower than most other European nations. The Swedish government expected their citizens to do what was necessary to keep *themselves* safe, as most people do, anyway. What’s more, this method of theirs means that they could soon see so many people immune that transmission of the virus is heavily reduced.
So Monk James, what we are facing in this moment you mentioned, is not piles and piles of corpses. What we are facing now, because we were so docile, is devastation. A different kind of devastation.
We have deliberately destroyed our own economy. You’re worried about corpses, and there’s nothing wrong with that (except, again, the people who make noise about these particular corpses are strangely silent about the 3,000 corpses of unborn children flushed down the toilet every day), but the suffering that we have arranged for ourselves and is just ahead of us — over this precipice we are now facing — is monumental.
The oil market is collapsing. Have you thought about how far-reaching the consequences of that are? Oh right now it’s nice that gas prices are so low. But do you remember the shortages back in the 70s?
It makes me physically sick to think what we have done. We had a roaring economy just a few weeks ago. And now? Over 20 million Americans have filed for unemployment.
In December, the unemployment rate was 3.5%. Now it is 6%.
What we may be headed for is 30% unemployment and another Depression.
Again, hindsight is 20/20. But isn’t it reasonable to look back and reflect that perhaps we were all a little too docile? A little too unthinking? A little too trusting in our government to “keep us safe”?
Isn’t it reasonable to think that we could reasonably have observed the restrictions withOUT closing our churches as Fr David has suggested upthread?
So no, Monk James, at the moment, the political right is not at all distant from reality. Those who are distant from reality are those who ask rhetorical questions about what we will do with piles and piles of corpses — in this moment.
It is time to re-open our economy and our country as soon as possible. Healthy people should be encouraged to go back to work and back to church. People who are most at risk should be encouraged to stay home. And suggesting that those of us who are advocating that are willing to callously step over corpses is irresponsible, or worse.
“And if you are paying attention, you know that Sweden imposed NONE of these restrictions, and their death rate is lower than most other European nations. ”
I wasn’t aware of this but then I have been trying to limit my news consumption for the sake of my mental health. Can you flesh it out a bit? Per the google I just did, they have 1937 deaths and 16004 cases, which is a death rate of 12.1%. If we apply that to the 820600 cases in America, that would give us just under 100000 deaths, over twice the 45967 we’ve actually had to this point (our rate is 5.6). Am I missing something here?
Germany, Switzerland, Ireland and Portugal seem to be the outliers, with rates below or about 5. America’s rate is less than half of those in Italy, France, the UK, Spain and Belgium.
These are the stats I’m quoting from: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/
Not trying to argue anything here, just trying to get a handle on the data.
And last but definitely not least…Christ is risen!
Hey, Reluctant. 🙂
In the first place, I shouldn’t have said it is lower; it makes no sense to compare any country with any country. There are too many variables. Population. Culture. Health care systems. And the numbers change every day. Everywhere. But as I said, there are lots of experts, and they are all over the map. I’ll just post a bunch of links here to things that are relevant to this discussion, and you can peruse them at your leisure, since you have plenty of it, eh?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/
https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/20/stockholm-achieve-herd-immunity-next-month-health-chief-claims-12580668/?fbclid=IwAR0tZrpOi3bpKbw6Zt9i4Kn2XbzCBMPiLZ08DbgdI_BKHpTc-JPCBvqVM5k
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html?fbclid=IwAR0b24g_2fXwnUIgDi7myvfsZxNzI6ESLSUe-ytlmg_Pp5-24j1J9GstVRo
https://www.dailywire.com/news/swedens-chief-epidemiologist-our-open-approach-to-virus-seems-to-be-working?fbclid=IwAR22Ji-JiXJ0Y1Ca5_7vpZKttlbIT9AiqNI17y9VqmgKX5bSypcVJ3wyisU
https://fox11online.com/news/coronavirus/reports-suggest-many-have-had-coronavirus-with-no-symptoms?fbclid=IwAR1GwCSA4DkVj6h4i-_fJ9Y-_vmhhC31ZrSlGrv9Zt4OYZCLm-h4Zxt4Nrc
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/17/coronavirus-2-5-to-4-2-of-santa-clara-county-residents-infected-stanford-estimates/?fbclid=IwAR1WSpBvYnLI4oc_WKt4Imd7XDy4yFl5L446Ivz03SK9W4LOzBnW9xLmFcg
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/04/17/theres-no-direct-evidence-that-the-lockdowns-are-working/?fbclid=IwAR36h-Gt5ccpXIEBm-otYVjDMggZiqDAzqHyf8L76KH7hqj0EA97JGtff5Q
https://www.boston25news.com/news/cdc-reviewing-stunning-universal-testing-results-boston-homeless-shelter/Z253TFBO6RG4HCUAARBO4YWO64/?fbclid=IwAR1s0K-_DbTuNwjZSGQoejoTvVMuf4QBUf9k0SPVPZx9kGWFHfgiOzsMnAU
https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/pregnant-women-without-symptoms-are-getting-coronavirus-study/https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-many-people-have-had-coronavirus-no-symptoms-n1187681
https://twitter.com/TyCardon/status/1252845153846353923
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/8/21213995/coronavirus-us-layoffs-furloughs-hospitals
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/remember-hospital-ship-ny-desperately-needed-yerah-cuomo-now-says-not-needed/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8201783/Some-doctors-moving-away-ventilators-virus-patients.html?fbclid=IwAR3mum7bifDDWRlY7XOmqGqGzGg5zivoAXwQWBe4CieMsLulnUfX7ApKRrk
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-ventilators-trump-administration-handled-potential-shortage-deftly/?fbclid=IwAR0j1lGSk1fkou5V78cTc15PGz3s0U1lPbJiHr-DjEgbuTYHtDVYMWKRaXM
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/random-sampling-test-shows-coronavirus-more-widespread-and-less-deadly-than-previously-thought-study?fbclid=IwAR2abI0uLk-a8s0B36LTugWK5gDt1uSd-PF4jD_MZo98SRFxxCTp4zrfRxw
To be fair:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/22/sweden-health-agency-withdraws-controversial-coronavirus-report/#1d68ce274349
Yes, that was one of the first articles I saw re Sweden. I don’t remember whether it was that one or another one, but Sweden also acknowledges that their policy results in the elderly (ie, higher risk) being hit very hard. That doesn’t sit very well with me. It feels like culling old people.
(and thanks for all the links, btw)
Hey, Reluctant!
I found something else fascinating about Sweden! I thought you might enjoy it. It makes everything so much clearer!
Here it is:
https://bppblog.com/2020/04/23/the-swedish-exception/?fbclid=IwAR0h-MKHLB68kSNlGsNt9L3jheFnqsklHjzWOMtmAjVRQWBxFAn2ZGDrYcA
Very interesting that the gov’t constitutionally *can’t* get involved. Thanks very much for the link…
I like the idea of “nugging.” A few incentives couldn’t hurt either.
Dear Reluctant,
Only a brief post here, as I hope to write more soon. But the published “death rates” are only deaths per “confirmed cases.” There are millions of people who have coronavirus that no one ever knows about, because there is no way to test everyone. And there remains no consensus (even among scientists or epidemiologists) about how widespread coronavirus is.
When fatality rates of seasonal influenza are published (say, a fatality rate of 0.1% from the seasonal flu), they estimate the denominator of total number of influenza cases in the country, since again there’s no way to test everyone for it.
No one has done any *estimating* of the total coronavirus caseload because no one knows. It’s still all too new. So the only death rates that are published are deaths per those who have tested positive.
And even how deaths are reported widely differ, which makes comparing different countries’/states’ death rates like comparing apples and oranges. In the United States, our NIH encourages that *any* coronavirus patient who dies *FOR ANY REASON* counts as a “coronavirus death.” Thus, if one falls down the stairs and dies from a head injury, but yesterday he had tested positive for coronavirus, then that counts as a coronavirus death. Other countries may or may not report deaths this way. Italy also reports in this manner, which is another reason that Italy’s death toll seems uniquely high.
And add to all of this lots of political/power goals at play (many in the media simply will do anything to make President Trump look bad, so any good news at this time is unwelcome) and the rampant dishonest reporting (how do we know that other countries are being honest in their coronavirus reporting?), the data are simply not useful. Garbage in = garbage out, as my high school computer teacher used to say.
An honest news media would report all of these details to the country, but we do not have an honest news media in America.
The most tragic thing these days, in my opinion, is that we are again dividing into yet two more discrete Americas: (1) those who have money, resources, and work-at-home jobs that enable them to weather out this crisis, and (2) those who do not and who have no income now and who are at the mercy of whenever our overlords (leaders) decide it is OK to return to work.
May God have mercy on all of us, but especially on those without work-from-home jobs/resources to weather this crisis and on any of our overlords (leaders), many of whom seem to diabolically and narcissistically enjoy their power.
Hristos a înviat!
Adevărat a înviat! (no, I didn’t know it; yes, I googled it…)
I hear what you’re saying, I was just looking for *something* to try to take a look at the Sweden question and make a comparison. Possibly there’s not actually anything that would allow us to make a decent appraisal of it.
Agreed on your point about haves and havenots.
To add to the above:
And now we’re reading that the first coronavirus/COVID-19 death in America dates to Feb. 6th in California. (https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-earliest-covid-19-deaths-in-bay-area-occurred-in-february-not-march)
This patient who died from it on Feb. 6 acquired it locally in California (no recent travels, no Carnival cruises, etc.).
This is *huge,* since it means that the disease has been circulating in the American community at least since mid-January. And given how easy and widespread travel in America used to be and how easily transmissible coronavirus it, it’s been almost certainly circulating in *every* community since January.
Which means that any measures we take to contain it two months later in late March are a complete waste of time. It will be part of the American fabric until it we develop herd immunity.
Not saying that people should not wash hands or protect themselves, and the sick/immunocompromised/elderly should limit their contacts, but I am suggesting that measures should not be above and beyond what anyone would do for a normal bad flu season.
What we’re seeing is a virus that is so easily transmissible but that is not very deadly at all — but because it is so easily transmissible, even the small sliver of the population whom it causes to be hospitalized — and even the far fewer that it kills — seems significant. The data coming in suggests that, once everything is better known, that the death rate from coronavirus will be along the lines of a significant influenza season — and we never shut our country down for a bad flu season.
Many of us are believing that what was thought to be a heavy ‘flu season’ in Nov-Dec was, in fact, coronavirus already present in the US in force 5 months ago. Many of the flu deaths in the United States in Nov-Dec were almost certainly coronavirus deaths, but no one knew about it (thank you, communists in China!) and no one was testing for it. (I must add that we Orthodox are uniquely well situated to tell the world about the evils of communism, to those who have ears to hear.)
Instead, for coronavirus, we completely shut down our economy and put millions out of work and school — actions that will have absolutely ZERO effect on a virus that’s already been circulating for months. This is madness, unless there are more sinister motives at work, which I must say seem more and more plausible with each day.
And with our government and media being the way they are, very few in positions of civil authority or in the news media would ever admit they were wrong.
All of this would be more palatable if our societal shutting down actually would have some effect on coronavirus. But will not. It will only help those whose lives are paralyzed by fear be deluded into feeling, very temporarily, a bit better psychologically.
But our societal shutting down has already hurt and will continue to hurt millions upon millions. So tragic. And with each day the data suggest it’s all so unnecessary.
Physician, Gail and I have been saying something along these lines (i.e. morbidity/mortality rates) for awhile now and we’ve been roundly castigated for it.
See also Brendan’s comments below.
It’s because the data hasn’t supported those assertions and are unlikely to in the future.
[Editor Note: Deleted]
On the Diamond Princess there were 3618 passengers and crew and 712 confirmed cases, for a 19.7% of the ship that got infected. Of the 712 confirmed cases, 14 of them, or 2% died.
The situation on USS Roosevelt is still ongoing, additional positive cases are still occurring, and given the nature of COVID-19, it will still require several weeks before it can be assumed that there will not be any additional deaths from the outbreak. As of 4/21, the crew results have been 710 positive, 3872 negative with one death. Assuming those were the final numbers, that is a 15% infection rate, and a 0.14% death rate.
There are two things I think worth pointing out from these ships. One is that the Diamond Princess wasn’t just elderly passengers, although all the deaths appear to have been elderly passengers. The ratio was roughly 1000 crew to 2600 passengers. This highlights the increased mortality risk with age that COVID-19 represents.
The second is that any additional deaths on the Roosevelt are going to seriously adjust the current figure, but as it is from just one death, it is a little sobering to reflect on the possibility that if you have a population sample that is skewed heavily towards being young, healthy and in the ‘prime of life’, in that context COVID-19 might be lethal as might be expected for an influenza across a general population with a great number of elderly and unhealthy people.
And, it should be pointed out again, we are only starting to learn about potential permanent or long-term health issues related to having contracted COVID-19.
One other thing that the Roosevelt and the Diamond Princess had in common: they were both nautical vessels with cramped quarters. Of all the armed services, expect the Navy to be the most afflicted by corona.
OK. Here is the thing about death rates. they are flat wrong because you need two pieces of data to calculate the death rate (the math is so easy that I, a former English teacher can do it). You need the number of deaths AND the number of infections. We don’t know how many people were infected and we can’t calculate a death pate. What you are getting is the number of dead divided by the number of tested. There have been some studies done with random tests that point to high levels of infection, like a third to half of the population, so figure for a high level of error. The best guesses for the death rate based on the latest data matches up with the estimates that leaked out of china before the CCP clued in and started arresting doctors. The death rate is probably between 0.1 and 0.4, so comparable but probably a bit worse that the flu. So what is the panic about? It’s not about the diseases lethality, but rather about its communicability. We are talking about a virgin field so we might be talking about a fortieth of a percent of what, 7 billion. Because of the communicability of this disease, there was reasonable concern about our hospitals being overwhelmed. We did the whole quarantine thing to buy time for our health care systems to gear up. That’s it. Other than that. this is a virus. we were never going to stop it, just slow it down a bit. By the time we knew we needed quarantines, it was probably to late to have a dramatic impact. People are going to die. I’m one of those with a compromised immune system and am at risk, but we can not maintain this shut down. In some places it seems like its about power and I believe some governors will find themselves before judges, and losing. Next year, enough people will have been infected that herd immunity will make this virus into something like the flu and when we have a vaccine, the people who will get it will be those at risk, like me, who already get the flu vaccination. Lets all just be thankful that this isn’t a new black death or even Ebola. Honestly, we dodged a bullet thinking all we had to prepare for was a flu pandemic. There are much worse viruses out there that just need the right mutation to break loose, so this is probably a wake up call.
Indeed He is risen, and there is no need to fear. I miss the days when news was news because the three TV networks were mandated to have news and didn’t make any money off of it. Now there is just the scramble for clicks and ratings and actual news has been replaced by fear porn.
Coronavirus or Cuomovirus? Twilight Zone New York under Governor Cuomo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDa5HEgYaPU
From the comments: “Do the math on the ships Roosevelt and Diamond Princess which are well documented and are perfect petrie dishes for maximum transmission and death. Roosevelt was full of young fit people and the death rate was 0,00021 (infection rate was 12.5%). The Diamond Princess was full of mostly older not so fit people and the death rate was 0.0021 (infection rate was 18.9%). For this the worlds economy was shut down?!”
I fully expect the Blue states to be more afflicted, not merely because they are relatively more densely populated but their authority figures are way too much enjoying flaunting their authority.
Even Houston, which is a mostly Blue city in a Red state has absolutely had it with their totalitarian judge who told them that they had to wear masks outside. The police union told her to depart to the nether regions. Even NYC, a very Blue city, told Commissar DeBlasio to go and entertain himself on his 311 “snitch” line.
People can only take so much totalitarianism. Even liberals have their limits.
[Editor: Deletion] EVERYONE has a bias, some big others small, but to deny it is ludicrous.
I agree, Jeff. EVERYONE has a bias.
Memo: to Barrister Nick Stamatakis ?️♂️
have mercy …
I’m cognizant I don’t know everything … but I ask you to consider … isn’t it possible, whom you call – The Prince of Darkness — the Vicar General Alex Karloutsos — is really an innocent Scapegoat?
Maybe … just maybe … he’s Sacrificial Lamb? ?
All I’ve seen from him, is nothing but ✨LIGHT⚡️✨?
Sage-Girl, may I say how HAPPY I am that you have joined our blog.
Karloutsos is a tough sell.
A really tough sell!
Haha Gail —
Thanks for the welcome ?
frankly it’s completely over my head what’s gone down with Vicar General Alex – I do not understand it , guess I just have that kind of Faith — for me – he is Good.
it’s a Mystery – you bond with someone on certain plane, but I’m learning, it cannot mean you see landscape in totality…
May It Be Blessed ?
How to respond to this virus? Here are “Pleas from Greece and Mount Athos” and the Ancient Church’s Witness;
https://youtu.be/JooWIeMV7kk
https://jamesperloff.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-red-pilled/
This is one of the best articles on the current crisis, written by a man with 45 years of experience as a nurse, 35 as a journalist, and the illumination that comes from being a convert to Holy Orthodoxy. Packed with information and quite level-headed.
Great article, Basil.
Thank you, Basil.
Our friend James Perloff has outdone himself here.
Fully agree. He’s a digger for info.
Thanks, Basil
George, have Orthodox countries fewer Corona cases per million people population?
I read somewhere that this is the case. To find out, I collected data yesterday from
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
and to simplify comparison, I considered the following countries only:
(1) having population from 1,200,000 to 150,000,000
(2) countries in Europe and Russia.
These are the results sorted by Ascending Cases per Million people.
Thus,
Georgia ( Orthodox ) has 105 cases per 1 M.
Spain (non Orthodox) has 4556.
Most countries of the top of the table are Orthodox.
The lower half of the table lists non-Orthodox countries only.
(I hope I have not made a mistake in the list).
T/1M Orthodox? Country
— ——– ———–
105 Orthodox Georgia
158 Orthodox Bulgaria
164 Orthodox Ukraine
230 _______ Albania
236 Orthodox Greece
236 _______ Hungary
278 _______ Poland
430 Orthodox Russia
483 _______ Croatia
514 _______ Lithuania
525 Orthodox Romania
624 Orthodox North Macedonia
657 _______ Slovenia
658 Orthodox Cyprus
667 _______ Czechia
725 Orthodox Moldova
773 _______ Finland
833 Orthodox Serbia
849 Orthodox Belarus
1200 ______ Estonia
1358 ______ Norway
1394 ______ Denmark
1659 ______ Sweden
1666 ______ Austria
1804 ______ Germany
2034 ______ UK
2085 ______ Netherlands
2192 ______ Portugal
2449 ______ France
3098 ______ Italy
3293 ______ Switzerland
3376 ______ Ireland
3693 ______ Belgium
4556 ______ Spain
Even the non-Orthodox countries on the top half of that list have sizable Orthodox presences.
God is purging the heretics so we can reconquer the West for Holy Orthodoxy.
Basil, thanks for the observation.
I haven’t mentioned it myself because
I didn’t want to give the slightest suspicion that I might be biased.
Thank you, Ioannis. This is very interesting, particularly since Georgia is at the top with the fewest cases and they are the ONLY Church who did not padlock their doors to keep out the Faithful.
https://orthochristian.com/129956.html
Wow!
As Monty Python used to say: “And now, for something completely different.”
“In this time, when we need global solidarity, I express the wish that Ramadan will help bring peoples and nations together around the meaning of life, the hope of eternity, and for the propagation of peace and goodwill on earth as together, we overcome this world pandemic.”
Archbishop Elpidophoros
Yeah, we saw that, too! Just when you think it is safe to go back out in the water. . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX3bN5YeiQs
Hmmm? I am perceiving a new nickname for the Archbishop. ?
Of course, the Patriarchate of Alexandria is nearly drowning in a sea of Islam, and that ancient church must do everything it can to keep peace with its muslim neighbors, who are often whipped up into anti-christian frenzies by leaders who take advantage of their people’s ignorance for their own personal gain.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PATRIARCH OF ALEXANDRIA EXTENDS RAMADAN GREETINGS
<ttps://orthodoxtimes.com/patriarch-of-alexandria-in-the-name-of-true-god-christians-and-muslims-united-like-brothers-take-courage/
Patriarch of Alexandria: In the name of true God, Christians and Muslims, united like brothers, take courage
Apr 24, 2020
Patriarch Theodore II of Alexandria and All Africa conveyed his warmest wishes to Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi on the occasion of the start of the holy month of Ramadan for Muslims.
“I would like to send my heartfelt wishes from the patriarchal holy monastery of St. George to all our brothers and sisters, to all who live in the blessed country of Egypt, as the holy period of Ramadan begins at dawn,” the Primate of Alexandria said and wished them “to have the blessing of the mercifull and great God. May they have God’s blessing in their daily prayers and in the exaltation of their hearts to the true God.”
Referring in particular to the Egyptian President, Patriarch Theodore wished God to bless the President of Egypt, Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, and all his associates.
He also referred to the Egyptian government’s efforts to overcome the current global coronavirus pandemic, but also to the conditions experienced by Christians this Easter, which will be followed by the respective conditions during the Ramadan: “As different as this year’s Easter was for Christians, so the conditions in this year’s Ramadan will be different,” Patriarch Theodore emphasized.
And he concluded by addressing the Muslims of Egypt: “Best wishes, my Egyptian brothers and sisters. The sacred period of prayer and fasting begins. But, above all, it must be a period of spiritual joy, so that during all these days of prayer courage and strength will fill our hearts. And united like brothers and sisters, Christians and Muslims, in the name of the true God, we will take courage and strength to walk this path that God himself has set for us.”
Source: ANA-MPA
Seems like the sensible thing to do.
I don’t know, but I would guess that many and Orthodox patriarch over many a century did much the same.
I’ve heard the same argument before about the importance of getting along with your Muslim neighbors who can be worked up into a frenzy kill you.
Forgive me, Father, but that old adage, “If you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas,” keeps popping into my head. Tell me, again, why “the ancient church must do everything it can to keep peace with its muslim neighbors.” The ancient church isn’t rooted to a particular place. If that were true, no one would have left Jerusalem. They are not welcome where they are.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Matthew 10 13-15.
I was merely reporting the event, and suggesting a possible explanation for it, dear Gail. I neither agreed nor disagreed with Patriarch Theodore ii of Alexandria, although I certainly don’t envy his circumstances.
In any event, your disagreement is not with me, but with him.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you, Father. I just don’t understand the part where an ancient church must make accommodations to a muslim country so no one whips themselves up into a frenzy and kills them.
Gail,
indeed, and what accommodations when the muslim teaching contains the following about the basis of the Christian faith (Extract from the Quran):
SURA 4.
171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not “Three” – Cease![it is] better for you! – Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
157. And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
SURA 5.
19. They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.
75. They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.
________________________________________________
“Of course, the Patriarchate of Alexandria is nearly drowning in a sea of Islam, and that ancient church must do everything it can to keep peace with its muslim neighbors,”
So it(PA) “can” ignore the above extract from the Quran, and pretend it doesn’t exist.
“I was merely reporting the event, and suggesting a possible explanation for it, dear Gail. ”
Yes, but It so happens that the event is reported by orthodoxtimes.com which happens to be pro-Bartholomew and his company.
There’s wishing your Mohammedan neighbors “happy feast,” and then there’s syncretistic relativism. Old Patriarch Theodoros seems to have fallen into the latter with his “brothers and sisters… true god” schtick.
Does he think Allah is the ‘true god’? May the True God have mercy on him on judgement day if that is the case.
Does he not think that Allah is the ‘true god’? Then he will have to answer for false witness on judgment day.
Sometimes it’s better to just say nothing, rather than contribute to the further degradation of people’s faith – and your own salvation.
“Does he think Allah is the ‘true god’? May the True God have mercy on him on judgement day if that is the case. Does he not think that Allah is the ‘true god’? Then he will have to answer for false witness on judgment day.”
Good point Basil.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father. He that confesseth the Son, hath the Father also.
1 John 2:23
Ecumenism with Islam is a long standing hallmark feature of Orthodox belief?
Hmmm? This is the same Patriarch that recognized the group of schismatic layman in Ukraine who received the uncanonical autocephaly from the EP after praising Metropolitan Onufriy as the head of the only canonical Church in that country. Yes…that’s what I thought.
WA State population = 7.8 Million / Covid deaths = 711 / % = 0.0091
These are the kind of numbers we like to see.
I think it turned out well (so far) for us here (I’m in Tacoma). We had the first cases, the first deaths (concentrated originally in the Kirkland nursing facility), and we were ten days to a couple of weeks ahead of much of the country in getting the various measures going. The more one reads lately, the more one realizes that action in early days has paid off.
We had closed all bars and restaurants while Mayor Blasio was still telling NYCity to get out there and patronize them.
I’m no fan of our gov’nor but by and large he’s done ok. Today he announced that contruction activity can return, on home and commercial projects, with enforcement of distancing and masks.
First real note of progress.
Very good news.