When Serbia Talks, People Listen. . .

EF Hutton wasn’t the only one who had people listening.  Or so it would seem.  Serbia was one of the first among the local Churches to challenge Bartholomew last November when he turned “first among equals” into “first without equals” and started down the dreadful path of granting autocephaly to Ukraine.  The others followed in short succession. 

She is now the first among her peers, outside of Russia, to recommend its hierarchs and clerics refrain from liturgical and canonical communication with the newly formed autocephalous church and break ties with all who commune with them. 

This would include the Patriarch of Constantinople. (And those of us I suppose who also haven’t broken communion with Constantinople.)

Will the other hierarchs follow suit?  “Signs Point to Yes”   Regardless, we’ll have to wait and see how this scandalous situation, set unilaterally in motion by the Phanar, is going to work itself out.  This is not going to be an easy fix.




  1. Gail Sheppard says

    Can’t help but notice that more and more people are referring to Bartholomew as the Patriarch of Constantinople.  The term “ecumenical” no longer applies. 

    • It is time for all Orthodox Churches to break communion with the schismatic of Constantinople.

      I just read an article stating that Bartholomew will not meet in Pan Orthodox Council over the Ukrainian issue. It is a response to Patriarch John X of Antioch. He uses non-attendance of the Cretan Robber Council as one of his reasons. He is like a vengeful little child throwing a temper tantrum because he was unable to force his Cretan heresies on all the Churches. It would be humorous if it wasn’t so tragic.

      • He's not stupid says

        Mikhail, I’m certainly no Patriarch Bartholomew fan. He’s the cherry on top for the ignominy and ruin that has been befalling the church of Constantinople starting about 100 years ago.

        But why on earth would Patriarch Bartholomew want to recommend or encourage meeting in a pan-Orthodox council to discuss the Ukrainian church situation? It’d be like convening a jury that you know would convict you. None of the other 13/14 autocephalous churches has supported Patriarch Bartholomew on this issue. He’d be essentially convening a council to confirm his own rebuke and/or demise.

        It will likely take several more years before there is any firm closure to this drama that we are seeing now. Patriarch Bartholomew has said that he wants to celebrate Pascha with the Pope of Rome by 2025. Perhaps it will take that long for all of the Orthodox Churches to formally acknowledge him and Constantinople as apostate. Russia and Serbia were the first… for the rest it may take some time. For some, it may take seeing Patriarch Bartholomew sign an official act of communion with the Rome to realize what he’s done.

        The only way a church council will ever convene to discuss the Ukrainian issue is if all of the other Orthodox churches organize in council without Patriarch Bartholomew. No way he would ever call one.

        At this stage in his life, Patriarch Bartholomew is planning and solidifying his legacy. It seems that he wants to be remembered as the patriarch that saw the unification of Constantinople with Rome. All data points show that he’s fully digging in his heels, planning to replace the Constantinople Archbishops in New York, Europe, and Australia with his own yes-men who will tow his party line. Oh, how much more drama we will see in months to come.

        • Good post. I agree most whole-heartedly. I am hopeful that the other Churches will meet without Istanbul….sooner than later. I have a feeling that Patriarch John X is soon to join Russia and Serbia.

        • Fr. David Hovik says

          Dear He’s Not Stupid, you wrote: Patriarch Bartholomew has said that he wants to celebrate Pascha with the Pope of Rome by 2025.
          Would you mind sharing the source of that quote? 
          Thank you, frd+

          • Gail Sheppard says

            They plan to join together in 2025 at Nicea. Bartholomew said that he and Francis wanted to leave the synod as a “legacy to ourselves and our successors.”


            • Joseph Lipper says

              The plan announced in May 2014 to join together at Nicea in 2025 is part of the Joint Commision for Theological Dialogue between Catholic and Orthodox.  This Joint Commision was initiated by Pope John Paul II and Ecumenical Patriarch Demetrios I in 1979.  All fourteen autocephalous churches have been part of this dialogue, including Moscow.
              Metropolitan Hilarion visited Pope Francis at the Vatican this last October to advise Pope Francis of the situation in Ukraine  that necessitates Moscow’s present withdrawal from that commision, yet also to affirm Moscow’s continued desire for “bilateral relations” with the Vatican:
              “because of the actions of the Patriarchate of Constantinople the Russian Orthodox Church had to suspend its participation in the work of the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. Metropolitan Hilarion underscored that bilateral relations between the Roman Catholic Church and the Moscow Patriarchate will develop.”

              • Gail Sheppard says

                Joseph, you can pretty it up however you wish, but it was PATRIARCH BARTHOLOMEW who said it was HIS vision “to celebrate together [with the Roman Church], after 17centuries, the first truly ecumenical synod” and that he and Francis wanted to leave the synod as a “legacy to themselves and their successors.”

                These are very telling statements for two reasons:  (1) Bartholomew wants to unite with the Roman Catholics and (2) he is doing it to satisfy his own vanity.  The fact that he created a statue of himself speaks to this, as well.  The man is getting old and he wants to go down in history as the one who healed the schism of 1054.  But he doesn’t want to do it the right way.  He doesn’t want to work within the context of the Church which is why he doesn’t care that every Local Church begged him not to go down the Ukrainian path.  He has chosen, instead, to use the machinations of various governments and the pope to accomplish his objectives.  What he is going to find is that no one is going to follow him.  He will be a “church” of one with a handful of academics supporting his ego.


                • Joseph Lipper says

                  Gail, there are no canonical objections to a living patriarch being memorialized by sculpture, at least according to the Moscow Patriarchate. That’s why the MP “greenlighted” the sculpture of Patriarch Kyrill to be placed just outside of Christ The Savior Cathedral in Moscow:


                  As for the planned “Nicean Synod”, it was not an intentional plan to enter communion with Rome. It was just a plan to jointly analyze the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea. Who really knows now if or when this will actually happen.

                  The Catholic-Orthodox Joint Commission, though perhaps not a perfect endeavor, does present itself as a “work within the context of the Church”. It’s been the work and involvement of all 14 autocephalous churches. It’s only been since last October that Moscow dropped out solely because of the Ukrainian issue. Perhaps what’s more disturbing here is that Moscow apparently still plans to continue ecumenical relations with the Vatican on it’s own and apart from this joint commission.

                  • Gail Sheppard says

                    Joseph, context is everything.  A man being immortalized by a third party as part of a group of 16 other people for historical purposes is very different than a man immortalizing himself.

                    You are mistaken about the EP’s intent.  Again, context is important.  When the EP made these remarks it was in the context of “CELEBRATING together.”  Celebrating is the operative word.  You can only celebrate with those with whom you are in communion.

                    • John Sakelaris says

                      The way this exchange is going, I must recall the warning in 2 Timothy 2:14:
                      Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

      • Matthew Panchisin says

        Dear Mikhail,

        Regarding Constantinople’s apostasy (which is much more than tragic) I have noticed often nowadays that people are burying their heads in the sand who are under the E.P. for the sake of comfort and not having their lives very seriously disrupted which is certainly understandable. It seems only the serious ecumenists (supporting so-called bishops and priests) are either not ashamed or dismissive while they are advancing the apostasy more openly. It’s like a friend mentioned, “It’s going to simply come down to who are you?”. It seems many Orthodox Christians are in the mass victimization phase now, which could last for a while.

        Years ago the Carpatho Russians used to say nezniu ( I don’t know) Moscow nezniu Rome, so they went under the E.P. These days they don’t know Moscow and they do know Rome via the ecclesiastical heresy of the E.P. although they haven’t done anything, so status quo? It’s easier that way for now, it’s human nature.

        It’s going to take some time, it is just important that we stay together, reject what Constantinople is effectuating and support others who are in very difficult situations to say the least.

        • Hi Matthew,
          Most Greek orthodox laity (or dare I say most Orthodox in general) have no idea of the uncanonical  papal actions of Istanbul or of the ecumenist heresies coming from the Phanar. This is very sad and indicative of the lack of awareness of the faith prevalent amongst so many of the faithful. However, those who understand what is happening, are compelled to speak the truth in love.
          Regrettably, I have always been a very impatient man. It is a passion that I constantly fight. In this situation, I am extraordinarily impatient. The hierarchs of the other Churches must not wait. Silence is unacceptable.  They cannot hide their heads in the sand or continue to kick the can down the road. The longer they wait, the more intense will be the persecutions and violence against the canonical Ukrainian Church and Her faithful.  To do nothing, makes one an accessory to the crime. 
          The epitome of lukewarmness, is to verbally oppose uncanonical actions or heresies in the Church……..and then do nothing.

          • Tim R. Mortiss says

            “If you don’t agree with me, you are a criminal”. It’s an old line….and usually is counterproductive.
            After all, if I’m a criminal, I should be punished.

            • That’s not what I said. But if the word “crime” disturbs you, I will attempt to re-phrase it.

              Istanbul’s uncanonical actions should be censured by a Council (with or without the CP’s participation). For the other Churches to remain silent and permit the persecution of the UOC to continue, would be tantamount to agreeing with Istanbul.

              • Tim R. Mortiss says

                Just sensitive, I suppose, inasmuch as I am a member of a GOA parish.

                • But it is true.   Love between christians,  common action ,especially with Catholics who we share basics ,but we can no more join with them in common worship as one church without acknowledgement of papal claims and rest plus personally I am careful with whom I associate and paedophiles certainly not. I say that with sadness because the Catholic church should be a support in some ways but who can take seriously any preaching coming out of thst cess pit called Rome? .WHO?…WHAT FANTASY WORLD IS EP LIVING IN. 

                  • Michael Bauman says

                    Ep is living in the world of a political puppet with delusions of grandeur

                • I am hearing of those who are leaving their GOA parishes for other jurisdictions because they have been scandalized by this divisive issue. Their consciences could not bear watching the persecution of the UOC.
                  How are you feeling about this?

                  • Tim R. Mortiss says

                    Nothing about my parish has changed. Everybody is the same as they were yesterday. Our outstanding priest, ordained 18 years ago in Jerusalem under the aegis of the Patriarch of Jerusalem, remains the same. So does the Divine Liturgy.
                    Matters seem much the same in other Greek churches not ‘under’ Constantinople; such as the Church of Greece, and the Cypriot churches whose services we attended in Cyprus last October.
                    I rather assume that if Bart becomes a Roman the GOA won’t.
                    Not going anywhere at all; certainly not for the time being.

                  • Michael, no one is leaving the GOA because of the Ukranian issue. Whoever is telling you that doesn’t know what they are talking about. You and your cronies may wish so, but it is not happening. Most members of the GOA don’t even know about the situation in the Ukraine. Besides, there are more important issues like getting the best baklava recepe.

                    • On the contrary, Jk.  Many more than you think are leaving. I am seeing it. In the end, I cannot fathom that any Orthodox Christian who knows what is happening and has a conscience, will be able to stay under Istanbul. As a matter of fact, as we speak, a ROCOR mission is being formed in Texas for families who are no longer able to stay with the GOA.

                    • Gail Sheppard says

                      He once said our sacraments were an abomination. He’s clearly not Orthodox or anyone in a position to know anything about the GOA. There is something weird about people who waste their time on a keyboard tweaking other people.

    • P.AntonioArganda says

      The term “Ecumenical” refers to the ecumene, the Roman empire. Since the Roman Empire ceased to exist in 1453, the term is outdated.This also means that the famous Canon 28 is lacking in content. The canon referred to those parts of the world as ‘Barbarian lands” which were not part of the Roman Empire.Given that modern-day Turkey qualifies as a barbarian land, where is the cumene, if it exists at all. Russia?

      • Gail Sheppard says

        Good point.

      • It's propaganda says

        The term “ecumenical” for the Patriarch of Constantinople has been outdated for centuries. Saint Gregory the Theologian, who was himself Archbishop of Constantinople, hated the term and said it was wrong for any bishop to think of himself as an “ecumenical” bishop presiding over any more than his own diocese.

        The use of “ecumenical” for the Patriarchate of Constantinople took off with strength in the 1920s after Patriarch Meletios Metaxakis became Patriarch. This was the time when the Church of Constantinople began its path toward apostasy, when it recognized the ridiculous and short-lived “Living Church” as the official church of Russia and forgot about Saint Tikhon’s suffering, persecuted, and martyred Russian Church. (Fast forward to 2019, when Constantinople is recognizing this ridiculous new creation of Filaret/Poroshenko/Epiphany as the Church in Ukraine and is forgetting out the persecuted and suffering Ukrainian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onuphry. The parallels to the 1920s are chilling.)

        Through a back door deal with Metaxakis’s cousin who was the prime minister of Greece at the time, the Greeks in America in the 1920s went under the Patriarchate of Constantinople (instead of under the Church of Greece, which would have made much more sense) in order to provide continued revenue to Constantinople. The GOA has, ever since then, been more than happy to spread the use of the term “Ecumenical” in order to puff up Constantinople’s perceived position in Orthodox Christianity.

        Use of this term “ecumenical,” more than 550 years after the Christian Roman empire has ceased to exist, is blatant propaganda, pure and simple.

        • Exactly .and as long as this Fantasy land story is allowed to sit at the heart of the Church, we sit and sleep while Rome burns. Oops maybe not best metaphor ,but does anybody on this blog understand that how can anyone take the Church seriously when at it’s heart is a Fantasy world, that now doing real damage in real Orthodox world??  

      • Monk James Silver says

        We should remember that the Roman pope St Gregory i, the Great, resisted and rejected the designation of ‘ecumenical’ for ANY bishop, not only for himself and for Rome, , but also for any bishop of Constantinople or for any others..

    • Joseph Lipper says

      The Serbian Church’s statement uses a few different titles, “Patriarch of Constantinople”, “Constantinople Patriarch” , “His All-Holiness”, and “His All-Holiness Patriarch of Constantinople”.

      The statement further says:

      “the Serbian Church is naturally compelled to recommend its hierarchs and honest clerics to refrain from liturgical and canonical communication not only with the above-mentioned Mr. Epiphany (Dumenko) and others like him, but also with the hierarchs and clerics who communicate with them”

      It would seem this would include the Patriarch of Constantinople as a hierarch “who communicates with them”, and yet the statement does not mention such a breaking of communion. So when the Serbian Patriarch Irenej celebrates Divine Liturgy, his Archdeacon likely still chants and commemorates the dyptchs with the first being “To His All Holiness, Bartholomew, Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch: Many Years!”

  2. anonimus per Scorilo says

    The Serbians feel the winds are changing on the Macedonian issue, and Constantinople will probably recognize their autocephaly as well. They tried to play nice with Constantinople before, going to Crete, etc. but probably realized they cannot stop it.
    Very bad move politically though, as there is nothing more they can do AFTER Macedonian autocephaly is proclaimed.

  3. George Michalopulos says

    One of the things that I left out re the importance of Serbia is that it was Serbia where the exilic Russia Russian synod first met and it was Serbia which maintained communion with ROCOR, thereby preserving its sacramental viability.

    In doing so, it did Orthodoxy a huge favor.

    • The smaller Balkan churches are more important than Greeks and russians give credit for. 

  4. Matthew Panchisin says

    The reason the Moscow Patriarchate didn’t show up at Crete was because they were under the impression that the Serbian Patriarchate wouldn’t be participating, which speaks volumes.

  5. Greatly Saddened says

    I guess with Billy Jack Sunday being MIA … I have been forgotten and was retired … oh, well! Thanks so much!

  6. Alex Pedenko says

    If you search for the original “statement” of the Serbian Church, you won’t find it. Look at the official web site of the Serbian Church: there is no statement here (unlike the official sites of the Churches of Romania and Cyprus that published their recent statements concerning Ukraine). 
    So this statement is published only on the two official web sites of the Moscow Patriarchate (patriarchia.ru and mospat.ru) and the Union of Orthodox Journalists site. 
    The opinion of Patriarch Irinej on Ukraine is well-known, but he is not the Serbian Church, and there are diverse opinions among the Serbian bishops.
    Also, a communique was recently sent by the Metropolis of San Francisco announcing the Sunday of Orthodoxy. The communique stated that Bishop maxim would be celebrating with Metropolitan Gerasimos. 
    Unless something changes in the coming days, there is no verification of either the statement you have published here or the breaking of communion. Meaning that it’s still only the Moscow patriarchate that has broken communion despite the apocalyptic hysteria. 
    Did you bother to fact-check your dissemination of this “statement”? It appears that the answer is “no.”  

    • Matthew Panchisin says

      Dear Alex Pedenko,

      You actually have the audacity to cite one dissenting Serbian ecumenist Bishop (Maxim) in their midst as evidence of a lack of unity of faith, sadly written.
      You should familiarize yourself with the Serbian Orthodox ethos on a very basic level and save yourself from more delusions that you don’t mind or can’t mind promulgating.

      • Alex Pedenko says

        Dear Mr. Panchisin:
        You say “audacity to cite one dissenting Serbian ecumenist bishop.” Take a breath and don’t get so anxious behind your screen. Slow down when you read. I did not cite Bishop Maxim anywhere in my post. 
        Your emotional response does not change the fact that this news story is not verified. 

        • Gail Sheppard says

          Are you normally this condescending, Alex, because it’s getting old.

        • Matthew Panchisin says

          Dear Alex,

          Your post says this, “The communique stated that Bishop maxim would be celebrating with Metropolitan Gerasimos.”

          You can do much better Alex, we understand what you mean and what you are doing.

          • Matthew Panchisin says

            See Alex, save yourself from more delusions that you don’t mind or can’t mind promulgating.

    • Gail Sheppard says

      George is a blogger, not a journalist. When was the last time you paid him to fact check anything? He has a nose for the truth. Between the two of you, my money is on him.

      • Anybody who knows Serbian church and its history knows where stands on Ukraine and much else. 

        • Gail Sheppard says


          • Alex Pedenko says

            A nose for post-truth syndrome so one can accept the narrative that justifies a strong opinion on the basis of dubious sources and wild conspiracy theories. What makes you think that a blogger who circulates propaganda is not compensated?

            • Alex Pedenko: “What makes you think that a blogger who circulates propaganda is not compensated?”
              It does not matter. For example teachers are usually compensated. It does not make them wrong or right.

              • George Michalopulos says

                I wish I was compensated for this!

                • Matthew Panchisin says

                  George I think that can be arranged with the help of the Russian oligarchs. They will not compromise you as you must agree that only Orthodox responses will be allowed to be posted on your blog.

            • Gail Sheppard says

              Perhaps some bloggers are, Alex. If George is compensated, it’s certainly not by us!

  7. Fr. Andrei says

    WHO said our Sacrements are an abomination?

  8. Dean Calvert says


    Your observation is correct.  On the MP website, this has been the case for quite a while.If you will recall, when the Orthodox Assembly meetings were commenced, Bartholomew and Kyrill were together.  That’s when I began to suspect something was up – a deal had been cut. Something struck me as fishy.

    Almost simultaneously, as if on cue, the MP website began using the term Patriarch of Constantinople instead of the other honorifics.  I noticed this was done consistently…but without fanfare.  While they would OCCASIONALLY refer to Constantinople as “His All Holiness”, much more frequent was Patriarch of Constantinople. 

    I mentioned it to a couple of people, but no one seemed to care except me.

    My suspicion is that, as always, Moscow has been playing chess to Constantinople’s checkers…and the game is about up.  I think a meeting of the patriarchs, in Russia or some neutral place, convened by someone OTHER than the EP, would be checkmate!

    PS For whatever it is worth..I met Patiarch Irenej when he visited his big Serbian parish in Windsor Ontario a few years back.  Have to tell you…the man is NO SHRINKING VIOLET!  I was watching at the back of the church as the service emptied, so he walks over to me.  I greeted him, (in Russian – which I only know enough to be dangerous in!).  When he began responding (not sure if it was Serbian or Russian) – I responded (again in Russian), “My apologies Vladyka but I am not Russian, I’m Greek.”

    The man instantly switched to a very high Greek, which he was obviously fluent in, and which I (with my village Greek) could barely understand.   

    We had a very animated talk for a few minutes….but I often wonder if he walked away thinking (about me) “I wonder if that guy speaks ANY language?”  LOL

  9. Mirkos Contokotis says

    In 1342 Palamite Zealotes, with Serb supporters, massacred the Thessalonian aristocracy  and established themselves as a commune. Clearly your beloved Slavs are perennially communists.

  10. Mirkos Contokotis: “In 1342 Palamite Zealotes, with Serb supporters, massacred the Thessalonian aristocracy and established themselves as a commune. Clearly your beloved Slavs are perennially communists.”
    You mean like them?
    “They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
    Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles.
    All the believers were together and had everything in common.
    They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.”

    • Michael Bauman says

      Martin, communism is the forced transfer of property and humanity to the state. What the early disciples did is not in any way, shape or form, communism. Christian sharing is based on love for and communion with God as persons in the image and likeness of God. That communion of love, mercy and forgiveness creates community in Christ.

      Communism denies God, devalues the human person and subjects everyone to humiliation and terror. It destroys community, lives and the natural order.

      Not that you are doing this, but similar statements to yours has long given cover to people and ideas that hate Jesus Christ and seek only the materialist utopia in which they are rulers.

      • Michael Bauman: “communism is the forced transfer of property … Communism denies God”

        You did not pay attention, I was answering to:

        “Palamite Zealotes, with Serb supporters … established themselves as a commune … Clearly … Slavs are perennially communists.”

        You oversimplify the issue of Communism or Socialism. It had different forms, reforms etc, it is not black and white issue as neocons want us to believe (BTW, neoconservatism at least in part evolved from the followers of Trotsky, see Sindey Hook or https://www.voltairenet.org/article30052.html)

        The Church is not wedded to any worldly formation, neither feudalism, nor capitalism or ancient slavery system. It can coexist with socialism as well.

      • Tim R. Mortiss says

        As Winston Churchill remarked, in response to a socialist’s citing of this passage, in the early church it was ‘what’s mine is yours’; to the socialist it’s ‘what’s yours is mine’.
        A big difference!

        • Tim R. Mortiss: “to the socialist it’s ‘what’s yours is mine’.”
          Simply it is not true. Indian tribes were not robbed by the socialists, neither African slaves – the “sacred private property” were not sold and bought by the socialists.

  11. Gail, how do you explain your opposition to the supposed Nicea III Union council that you referenced above while at the same time celebrating the non-orthodox having given their sacraments to the orthodox? 

    • Gail Sheppard says

      What “non-orthodox gave their sacraments to the Orthodox” and how did I “celebrate” this?

      • On the posting entitled ‘For the First Time in Centuries, 3 Patriarchs (and Others) Did Not Commemorate the EP’, with reference to an RC priest administering sacraments to an Orthodox Christian you wrote on Feb 6:

        “…God bless that Catholic priest who covered the shame of one our own.  He stepped up when we failed.  God’s hands are never tied.”

        Faced between the choice of saying nothing or supporting this event, you chose to do the latter. There are no mysteries outside the Church and those who accept the mysteries of the non-orthodox are under anathema. By supporting intercommunion, you have already accepted the false union. 

        • Gail Sheppard says

          What I was celebrating is that God, in his mercy, comforted the dying mother of one of our readers by giving her that which she needed in the absence of an Orthodox priest.

          There is an old saying in the Church: We know where God is (in the Church) but we don’t know where God isn’t (in other words, we do not know that He was not working through this one priest, in this particular instance, to give this woman what she needed). This is not supporting intercommunion.

          God is not contained. If He were, He would not have worked miracles through the Samaritans. The woman at the well, the Syrian woman’s daughter and the Centurion servant are all examples of God “coloring outside the lines.”

          • I know that you mean well but attempts to provide a theological justification for intercommunion are extremely dangerous. While we do not presume to know what God is doing outside the boundaries of the Church, we do in fact know that there are no mysteries beyond those boundaries.

            Why do you presume to know how God acted in that circumstance? And if He cannot be contained, then why do you presume to know that the Holy Spirit did not also, say, inspire Patriarch Bartholomew to receive the Ukrainian schismatics back into the Church?

            • Gail Sheppard says

              Well, now YOU are presuming, aren’t you?! 🙂

              I don’t know you and you don’t know me. If you did, you would know that I see almost everything in a theological way or I would abandon it.

            • Christopher says

              Even on a logical & theological level you make several errors in this conversation.  In the differing ways (I count at least two) you are using the term “celebrating”, it is clear Gail is not doing that.  In your logic, “celebration” is an act of “intercommunion”, which is an act of “recognizing mysteries” {by which you mean the Sacramental mysteries of the Church}, which then inexorably leads “false union”.  I am not even sure your analysis can even be termed a  false legalism.  It’s more like a Spiritual Dialectic that takes Hegel as for its inspiration.  A single ho hum human event – an insignificant RC priest somewhere consoles a dying little old lady one day who happens to be Orthodox, and “BAM!”, the reality of nothing less than a “false union” between East and West is the result. 
              Please, why don’t you tell us more about this previously unknown spiritual and ecclesial dynamic?

              • Michael Bauman says

                Christopher, I would rather not hear more.  

              • Nikos stone says

                Christopher not sure if my late mum ever considered herself old!!  But yes u put it right. She was deeply Orthodox to her DNA and  was Silent during the Catholic rite but did not indicated refusal. She never in her life took COMNUNION in any other church.  
                But I was the son, she was dying and BEGGING me for the priest who did not come, what could i do?? 
                Perhaps all these questions need to be addressed to fr Vassili Mavroudis.  Others tell me he has good qualities.  I thank God for that and hope so.  
                Ro change topic again.  I live in Bulgaria and in this city I am in of 70plus thousand people there are 9-10 churches. And about that number of clergy.  Southern Bulgaria is in a better state but this is the real Orthodox world.  I had access to more liturgical life outside of Greece, when i lived in Uk. I know for lent there will be no pre – sanctified liturgical, etc etc . .

    • DBG: “how do you explain your opposition to the supposed Nicea III Union council ”

      If I thought (I do not) that Unia is right, I would rather go to the nearest Latin parish. It would be logical and simpler.

  12. Estonian Slovak says

    Along the same lines, Constantinople appears to accept Rome as being in the church, but the Old Calendarists outside of it. I personally would not take communion in the Roman Catholic church. However, I believe the commentator was just looking for something to nail Gail with. Sounds like Soviet tactics to me.

    • Estonian Slovak: “Constantinople appears to accept Rome as being in the church, but the Old Calendarists outside of it. ”
      Good point. Probably I could feel at home with moderate Old Calendarists, but not under Phanar as it is now.

  13. Matthew Segel: “that’s going pretty far back…”
    Yes, it does! Long before socialism became an issue.