I Wonder What This Is all about?

It’s rather curious, but there is a whole contingent of people in the Orthodox Church who are rather exercised about Orthodox hierarchs giving their blessing to armies and navies.  They are particularly vexed when they see Serbian priests blessing the weapons of Serbian militias and when it comes to Patriarch Kirill blessing new Russian naval vessels –well, don’t get me started.

Let’s just say that the screaming and caterwauling can be deafening.  Something about “Orthodox jihadism” if memory serves.  That’s a bad thing I suppose.

So, why isn’t the primate of the GOA being invited aboard the USS Harry S Truman, the largest of the of the Nimitz class super-carriers being met with the same howls of outrage?

Now, I realize that His Eminence just happened to be in the neighborhood of Souda Bay, Crete during the recent Great and Holy Council so it’s not like he went out of his way to cadge an invite but still, I have to wonder why it was given such extensive photographic coverage in The Orthodox Observer.

 

June 22, 2016 - His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios of America visited the USS HARRY S. TRUMAN, the largest US Supercarrier of the Nimitz class, docked for a few days in Souda Bay Naval Base PHOTOS: © Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, GOA/DIMITRIOS PANAGOS

June 22, 2016 – His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios of America visited the USS HARRY S. TRUMAN, the largest US Supercarrier of the Nimitz class, docked for a few days in Souda Bay Naval Base
PHOTOS: © Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, GOA/DIMITRIOS PANAGOS

 

Is it possible that the State Department was shooting a message to the Moscow patriarchate?  A message that goes something like this:  “Our boys in Istanbul might not preside over an Orthodox empire but that doesn’t mean that they can’t bless any future military endeavors.”

File this one under “things that make me go hmmm…”

 

Comments

  1. Michael Warren says

    Orthodox nations bless and pray for Orthodox armed forces…

  2. Mark E. Fisus says

    For Pete’s sake, it would have been a snub if Archbishop Demetrios hadn’t called on the ship, considering that he is the highest-ranking American cleric of the EP and the Orthodox Church maintains an active chaplaincy in the American military. It was a polite gesture.

    As for why people derisively greeted imagery of Russian clerics blessing Russian military equipment, well they’re our strategic competitors. How else did you expect Americans to respond? Don’t let your affinity for Slavic Orthodoxy turn you against America. You would earn no respect from the Russians, only contempt.

    • Not all Orthodox chaplains in the US Military come under the omophor of +Demetrios/GOA. For many years, the majority of military chaplaims came from the OCA. Just my take, some political posturing going on here

      • Mark E. Fisus says

        For most normal people, Orthodox is Orthodox. Any American sailor who is Orthodox, of whatever jurisdiction, looking at the photo would appreciate the gesture, I’m sure. Sometimes the “political posturing” is just in your own mind …

  3. This assumes that the blessing of the Phanar still means something . . .

    But you may be right, George. Blessing of weapons is a very old Orthodox tradition. The ROC has blessed the RF’s nuclear arsenal, for example, for the defense of the Motherland. Serbs have rites for this sort of thing dating way back into the Middle Ages. I read a Greek service for the commemoration of Greek Independence Day referring to it as a “holy war”.

    If EU/NATO wants to play dueling blessings, well, that’s quaint. “Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus’, eh? I’ll call with the Pope of Rome and raise you a heresiarch Bishop of Istanbul.” Poker.

    That sounds about right. I guess it’s a game to some people.

    In reality, Orthodox Christian Holy War makes jihad seem like a boy scout jamboree. Yet it is inadvisable except in extreme circumstances.

  4. Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

    Hunh? “there is a whole contingent of people in the Orthodox Church who are rather exercised about Orthodox hierarchs giving their blessing to armies and navies. ” I doubt that! Where may we learn about ANY “whole contingent of people” in what Orthodox Church “who are exercised about” ANYTHING?
    Surely George is not referring to one or two voices on Facebook or Twitter as “a whole contingent?” We all know of George’s devotion to V. Putin, but, to over-simplify a little, the blessing by an Orthodox hierarch of weapons of a modern war machine bent on stamping out independence in Ukraine can’t be compared to the blessing of arms by mediaeval abbots protecting their monasteries or king! SANCTIFYING Putin’s purposes as if they were holy is an extremely problematic effort.

    • Bishop Tikhon expresses a doubt: Hunh? “there is a whole contingent of people in the Orthodox Church who are rather exercised about Orthodox hierarchs giving their blessing to armies and navies. ” I doubt that!

      Respectfully, You Grace, this doubt can be cleared up, I think, with a google search on—let’s say—the Orthodox Peace Fellowship.

      • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

        Father Pat! I didn’t know those ladies were still around! Thanks for letting me know! Who else knew, I wonder?

        • Michael Bauman says

          Your Grace, Who ekse knew? Anybody who was actually interested.

          • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

            “Your Grace, Who else knew? Anybody who was actually interested.” Thanks a lot– in other words, hardly anyone at all!

      • Thanks for the plug, Father Patrick!

        The Orthodox Peace Fellowship of the Protection of the Mother of God has a splendid website including and linking to many resources:
        http://www.incommunion.org

        BTW: The OPF is not a pacifist organization, nor does it take positions in support of politicians or governments.

    • Independence which uses ethnic cleansing and atrocities to put down democratic referendums which would vote out a colonial, banderofacist terror regime, installed by the EU/USA/Israel overthrowing the democratically elected government of the Ukraine. Yeah, typical, banderofascist apology for genocide which swung at Nuremberg. Let the peoples of THE UKRAINE, Russian territory, vote for WHAT THEY CONSIDER THEIR DEMOCRATIC, INDEPENDENT SELF-DETERMINATION! Anyone, including Russophobic, meta- episcopal worshippers of Hillary/Obama, who does not stand on that principle forfeits all right to discuss what is the democratic disposition of a free and independent Ukraine.

      It certainly is not fascist death squads, child rape, public immolation of political dissidents, massacres at democratic polls, commerce in vivisection as Ukrainian ethnogenesis, secret imprisonments and purges, rigged election carousels, and diversion of state resources and budgets to oligarchs and political leaders. Uniate, banderofacist supporting meta-episcopal russophobes should keep their advocacy for genocide to themselves! The Uniate banderofascists and their Western enablers will face their victims at a reconvening of the Nuremberg Process.

      • George Michalopulos says

        This just in: former RFK speechwriter condemns the Democratic Party for war-mongering and is going to vote for Trump: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/rfk-trump-2016-democratic-party-speechwriter-214270

        • Reality Checker says

          This not just in.

          Hopeless naivete to support Trump while evidently oblivious to his many monstrous foreign policy pronouncements. But this piece certainly does express a lot of thoughtful points that no honest person would contest. The general diagnosis is sound enough. The therapy is utterly bonkers and ridiculous. Which is just one more measure of how far gone American political discourse is.

        • Reality Checker says
          • George Michalopulos says

            Well, I’ll raise you a few: James Woolsey (Bill Clinton’s CIA director) just endorsed Trump. Of the 88 generals and admirals that endorsed him, had combat experience (one Admiral was an Auschwitz survivor) whereas many of Clinton’s 95 flag-rank endorsers were primarily political hacks. (And if you don’t believe that the military has become politicized then I’ll know that you know nothing about our-day present military.)

            • Reality Checker says

              110 flag-rank endorsements and growing — many are retired. And this was almost two weeks ago. Please explain to me what possible relevance “politicization” would have to retired military? (And as if politicization were something new, one-sided, or easily discerned or demonstrable in any case.) Trump has far fewer names behind him than any Republican candidate in recent decades, and Clinton has more than any Democrat in recent decades. As usual, your assertions are hollow crap.

              (Disclaimer: Not meant as my personal, positive endorsement of Sec. Clinton’s foreign policy judgment.)

              • George Michalopulos says

                I’ll explain it very easily: retired military are not in danger of losing their status and pensions if they become critics. (What happened to Petraeus is an exception: being a critic of Obama, he was subjected to a “honey-pot” trap which ruined his career and resulted in his demotion.)

                We saw an example of this a few years ago when over 1,000 retired admirals and generals took out a full-page ad in The New York Times in which they criticized Obama’s orders regarding homosexuality and the military. They signed their names to it. Many of the older, still active upper echelons secretly agreed but they could do nothing about it without risking their careers. Others however, had no problems with it or decided that it didn’t make that much of a difference and/or were politically liberal themselves so they did the politically correct thing and gave their hearty approval. These guys got promoted.

                That’s what I mean by politization. Regardless, it’s the quality of the endorsements, not the quantity. Colin Powell, a man I used to respect utterly has now been exposed as nothing more than a venial hack thanks to Wikileaks. If Powell has been so compromised what makes you think the rest of Hillary’s honor roll is any better? I dare say they are far worse.

                Example: those fifty State Dept “experts” that came out against Trump last month are an example: these bozos got us involved in unwinnable wars. I’ll go further: many of them knew they were unwinnable but they didn’t care as they are heavily invested in the military-industrial complex.

                • Reality Checker says

                  I’ll explain it very easily: retired military are not in danger of losing their status and pensions if they become critics.

                  Ummm. Yeah, I know. Do you get that you emphasize my point? They’re endorsing HRC. Retired, ergo, not compromised by any putative politicization, and endorsing her. Let me know when you’ve caught up.

              • Michael Bauman says

                Both candidates are idiots. Why divide over idiocy? One is a venal, corrupt idiot. The other a pompous narcissistic idiot.

                None of the above.

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              What about his LIE that he was being audited by the IRS?

              • George Michalopulos says

                Well, when you can prove to me that his supposed lie about being audited resulted in the needless deaths of human beings (see: Benghazi) then we can talk moral equivalence.

                • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                  !. No lie RESULTED in any deaths at Benghazi.
                  2. Why do YOU cite moral equivalence? Next, you’ll be comparing the deaths of innocent aborted babies in America with the deaths of innocent babies (and fetuses in the Flood!

                • Oh, it is simple business. He doesn’t want to disclose book vales of his properties.

                  The audit hold is a white lie. If he is under audit; it is just convenient, but not the real reason we’ll never see a complete Trump tax return.

                  The deaths of the folks at Benghazi are on Obama. You can reframe [to] Hillary all you want, but she wasn’t in charge of the military and the stand down orders don’t come from her. What stand down orders, btw?

                  So, moral equivalence is irrational as framed.

                  Good business sense is driving Trump’s disclosure failure.
                  Obama owns the Benghazi failure.

                  Hilary isn’t even much of a part of the discussion. Obama must have known the Libyan ambassador was a security risk when they undermined Ghaddafi.

                  • George Michalopulos says

                    While Obama owns Benghazi simply because he’s the top dog, the fact remains that it was Hillary who pushed and advised hardest for that fiasco. She has proven consistently to be the most hawkish person in that administration.

                    As for Trump’s refusal to release his returns, I agree with you. However you make a serious mistake in assuming that he is not as rich as we are led to believe. I’d say 90% of his assets are in real estate and like most such moguls, he’s not as liquid as people who deal in financial instruments. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the reason he did The Apprentice was to get a nine-figure annual salary.

                    • I never said he wasn’t wealthy, but I don’t believe he makes 400M a year in income. He can lie because he won’t disclose it.

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      I’d be tickled pink to make just 1/10th of whatever it is that he claims as his income.

                    • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                      Here’s a kind of high level of pompous silliness: “I for one, as a citizen of these United States {SIC!), would like to know if a potential commander-in-chief has the requisite stamina to not launch nuclear missiles because she went into convulsions. That’s just me though.”
                      It would impossible for anyone having a fit or convulsions to launch nuclear missiles, George. Even a Hollywood studio or Marvel Comics would reject such a scenario! And judging by the debate, it seems Mrs Clinton has a lot more stamina than Mr Trump! It looks like ANYONE can push Donald’s buttons!

                  • Re: The release of Trump’s tax returns.

                    Something of a play on the general ignorance of the populace came from the lips of HRC in the debate. She suggested that the reason for his non-release was that he paid no income tax. This could be true of his business, but it is manifestly false overall.

                    What most people fail to understand (and HRC played on this general ignorance) is that businesses can indeed avoid taxation of income through reinvestment. Almost all privately held companies do this as a matter of course. Corporations do it as well. Obama’s buddy at General Electric is famous for it. I can virtually guarantee that your local physician, for example, has his business set up as an LLC or other type of corporation. Whatever he spends on his business, including a Ferrari to drive to and from the hospital, is thus a business expense. He could also invest in, say, a laboratory, X-ray, CT or MRI Scanner that allows him to generate yet more income and build more personal wealth while fully deducting the expense – either immediately or over a period of years. (I’m not picking on physicians. All business owners can do this). Trump’s jet or palatial office space is another example.

                    But whatever any business person withdraws from his or her business as income is taxed as personal income just like anyone else. Even the super rich like Trump cannot avoid income taxation, and they certainly cannot avoid all the other property, sales, etc. taxes. Thus to say, “…because he probably paid no income taxes,” is manifestly false.

                    In my opinion, the system that allows business owners to enjoy tax-free perks is at once fair and unfair.

                    It is fair because every business investment, be it in employees or equipment (even luxuries like high end cars, jets…) creates jobs for others and is not, in fact ‘income’ to the business.

                    It is unfair in the sense that a wage earner of any kind (highly paid or not) cannot build his personal wealth or make use of luxuries (automobiles, jets, etc.) with pre-tax dollars unless it is for retirement, and even that is very limited. It is especially unfair to employees who pay their own business expenses in the same manner that business owners do because the amount these employees can deduct (even though it, too, is not truly ‘income’) is reduced first by 2% regardless of gross income, and it is then reduced even further if gross income exceeds a certain amount.

                    Nice try, HRC. What have you done to make the tax laws fair?

                    • Reality Checker says

                      I think you’re missing the point.

                      Here’s a list of reasons I want to see Trump’s tax returns, aside from what they might or might not disclose about actual figures on cash distributions from Trump to the US Treasury. I think I’m speaking for a whole lot more people than just myself here:

                      1. Because it’s arrogant as hell for Trump to refuse to disclose. Everyone else seeking the job has to do it. Who does he think he is?

                      2. He seems to ground human value generally, and his own rea$on for being in particular, in net worth. He boasts constantly about how rich he is and conducts himself as if his wealth were a self-evident qualification for the presidency. (Setting aside the profoundly pertinent issue of exactly how he amassed whatever real assets he may actually possess.) Since it’s patently obvious that he can boast none of the other major qualifications heretofore demanded of serious candidates for the presidency, and since his supporters evidently agree with him that his net worth is an apparently sufficient qualification (since he patently lacks any others), it seems to me that if all of this incessant, self-aggrandizing hype re: his allegedly vast net worth is just one more case of “truthful[sic] hyperbole” and he is in fact much less wealthy than he claims, that would matter a great deal. Maybe this is just one more con.

                      3. How much does he claim in charitable contributions, and what is the nature of the recipients. Something about the guy makes me suspect this particular figure will prove to be very small. Color me cynical.

                      4. How much of his money is hoarded or invested off-shore.

                      5. But most of all, I want to know how in debt he is, and to whom. I know for a fact that his sleazy business practices in general, his multiple bankruptcies and his long history of dishonoring contracts have made him radioactive to American banks. I hear very solidly sourced rumors that he owes a lot of money to Russian oligarchs. That really matters.

                      Now, to me and many others, these are very serious reasons indeed for wanting to view his annual tax returns and filings — aside from the question: how much in taxes has he paid? But I think you’ve forgotten about, or perhaps were unaware of, the very generous real estate tax credits and some other types of tax credits available to people like him that may indeed make it quite possible for Mr. Drumpf to, in fact, pay zero** in taxes net. As an individual, and not just as a business owner.
                      You asserted:

                      Something of a play on the general ignorance of the populace came from the lips of HRC in the debate. She suggested that the reason for his non-release was that he paid no income tax. This could be true of his business, but it is manifestly false overall.

                      Were you aware that, by taking advantage of various real estate and other tax credits he might be legally entitled to, **Mr. Drumpf might in fact have transferred $0.00 from his own pile to the US Treasury? And that this could have been true for years and years? Just as HRC suggested?

                      And if this in fact turns out to be true for this particular sleazoid grifter maneuvering to con the rubes into vaulting him into the Oval Office, I wonder whether you would be honest enough — unlike so many of those who frequent this blog — to withdraw your assertion that her statement was “manifestly false” and “something of a play on the general ignorance of the populace.”

                    • George Michalopulos says

                      He said he’d release them when Hillary released her medical records. I for one, as a citizen of these United States would like to know if a potential commander-in-chief has the requisite stamina to not launch nuclear missiles because she went into convulsions. That’s just me though.

                    • Reality,

                      I do not disagree with most of your points here. Truly, I do not. This is the most loathsome choice of candidates I can remember (and we’ve had some bad ones). On one side we have a woman protected (by the state, no less!) from disclosure of anything she chooses not to disclose, no matter how nefarious. On the other we have a man whom I did not support in the Primaries, but for whom I would nevertheless like to vote in the general election as the lesser of the evils (in terms of the overall direction of the country). But because he cannot seem to bring himself to lay aside his own ego, he increasingly makes even her seem more palatable. I could never vote for her, but he is making it ever more difficult to vote for him.

                      My point, however, was that no one (except the very poor), no matter how many deductions or credits available to them, can avoid paying taxes on income. There are many things that are simply not tax-deductible for anyone. If you know any rich people, you can ask them. One can only not pay income tax if one chooses to live off funds that have already been taxed, which is possible in Trump’s case. If you or I, for example, chose not to work and live off the accumulated post-tax dollars in our bank accounts, we would pay no income tax. But if anyone, business owner or not, has income, it is taxed at the same personal income rates to which all citizens are subject.

                    • I’d just like to say that Trump will never disclose his taxes.

                      1. He would never divulge book value of real estate holdings.

                      Audit, schmaudit.

                      Hilary knew this and leveraged it and so did the New York Times.

                      And Trump responded by saying he is smart for not paying taxes.

                      None of these people care about US debt.

  5. I think this pales in comparison to the same hierarch giving the invocation at the Republican National Convention……in which he offered a prayer which neither mention Christ in specific or the Triune God in general. An American Bishop may tour American ships to his hearts content…….as long as Christ is the main thing…..https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MC6P8vS_tuE

  6. Reality Checker says

    Brian, at this stage of the game I’m simply unable to be civil in response to remarks such as yours re: Sec. Clinton vs. Drumpf, so I’m not going to go there. Although there is much I could say I’ll just leave it at I find them alien and utterly appalling.

    My point, however, was that no one (except the very poor), no matter how many deductions or credits available to them, can avoid paying taxes on income. . .But if anyone, business owner or not, has income, it is taxed at the same personal income rates to which all citizens are subject.

    This is just flatly false. Tax credits and deductions of many kinds are common in the tax code for the very wealthy, and if losses are large enough they can be can be legally applied to personal, not just corporate, income earned for years forward in time. These are especially diverse and generous in cases of loss in businesses associated with commercial real estate. You need to get out more. It’s entirely possible that Drumpf hasn’t paid a penny, in a decade or even longer, in Federal taxes on substantial annual income. And I’m talking about personal annual income of 7 or even 8 figures in each of these years, to be clear. You’re poorly informed.

    • George Michalopulos says

      Caught you! Looks like Trump lost almost a cool billion back in 1995, which even his critics admit would allow him to not pay income taxes for several years hence.

      I assume you didn’t catch the big news yesterday.

      • Make Monomakhos Great Again! says

        Caught him? He literally laid out the situation described in the NY Times article. George Michalopulos appears to have devolved to the point where he can’t even be bothered to read the short posts of critics before responding to them. After getting his head handed to him, George Michalopulos is too busy attempting to attack the messenger to even engage in cursory reading comprehension. Sad!

      • Reality Checker says

        Caught me in what? Common knowledge for decades that he bought and mismanaged and went bankrupt on three casinos and a failed airline, paid way too much for the Plaza after going deep into debt to do it, mismanaged that and lost between a quarter and a half billion on it. Sold in ’95 to some Saudi prince. I’m certain he’s lost well more than a billion; that figure’s just one year’s claimed losses.

        Behold your ace businessman & Presidential candidate! Sad!

        And btw George: I know, you know and probably every one of your intelligent readers know that it’s not my anonymity that put’s y’all at a disadvantage, as you claimed above. A typically fake remark. LOL

    • Peter Millman says

      Hi Reality Checker,
      Will you kindly show me the law that states a Presidential candidate must release his tax returns to the public? As far as I know, he has never been prosecuted by the IRS for income tax evasion. I’m much more concerned about the Clinton Foundation, Benghazi, Hillary’s irresponsible, illegal use of a private email server, and the FBI’s failures in their investigation of her. As I’ve stated before, Hillary’s criminal destruction of Billy Dale in the Travelgate scandal permanently bars her from serving as our President. If the US justice wasn’t so corrupt under Obama, she would and should be under criminal indictment right now. It is a sin for any Orthodox Christian to ever vote for this execrable, abortion loving woman. I will go so far as to say that if someone votes for the Hildabeast, that person is no way, shape or form a Christian.

      • Mike Myers says

        Will you kindly show me the law that states a Presidential candidate must release his tax returns to the public?

        Hi Peter Minimalman,

        Pardon me for taking it upon myself to respond, but as you may have noticed, our illustrious host handed his hyper-ostrakon to Reality Checker. In reciprocation, no doubt, of RC’s having handed George one or more of his heads, one too many times! But like the Hydra’s they keep growing back again — if ever dimmer! What a hoot, right? So anyway, it looks like he will be unable to reply to your thoughtful post for the indefinite. Not that he would be likely to bother, frankly, kindly or more likely otherwise.

        Having read these threads carefully I can attest that RC never said or even suggested that the law required Drumpf to divulge his personal returns. No, just common decency, more than a generation’s unbroken precedent, respect for the process and for intelligent and aware Americans (none of whom will be voting for him, naturally).

        All the best!

        • Peter Millman says

          Mike Myers.
          Since no one would ever dare call me ” Peter Minimalman to my face, you have exposed yourself as a cowardly keyboard warrior. If we were face to face, instead of being disrespectful to me, you would be urinating in your pants. You, son, are a gutless coward. (George, please my post exactly as it is.)

          • 9/22
            George Michalopulos has a thick skin, but that’s no excuse to try to make him look stupid. That’s neither Christian nor charitable. George has graciously given us the opportunity to express our opinions, but we should express them like Christians.We should never try to make ourselves look good at someone else’s expense. Whether I agree or disagree with George, I still respect him, and am grateful for this forum. We shouldn’t excoriate another until we, ourselves, are perfect.

            9/2
            I say to you: as far as I’m concerned, your opinion has the same value as toilet paper. Nothing! Nada! … my benighted, dimwitted friend. By the way, where do you get off talking to me like that?!

            9/1
            I looked up his comments and his facebook friends, and all I can say is what a perverted, repulsive nitwit he is. By the way, he had the audacity to refer to Monomakhos as a hate page.

            9/14
            Very good news- Trump is ahead of the Hillary beast by five points nationally. I don’ want t this obscene mouthed cretan anywhere near the Presidency. She is a disgrace to humanity- and I’m being extremely kind. She is one of the most loathsome parasites on the planet.

            9/15
            When I express a contradictory opinion from someone, I usually begin by saying,” With all due respect,” but in your case, I say, “With absolutely no respect whatsoever.” Who cares what you think when you are too cowardly and gutless to sign your real name? You are a lilly livered, cowardly parasite. With absolutely no respect whatsoever, take your worthless opinions and keep them to your obnoxious self. Coward!!
            Remember this my pusillanimous friend, the great George Michalopulos, the great Gail Sheppard, the great Peter Papoutsis, the great Peter Millman, and various others have the integrity to sign our REAL NAMES.

            10/3
            It is a sin for any Orthodox Christian to ever vote for this execrable, abortion loving woman. I will go so far as to say that if someone votes for the Hildabeast, that person is no way, shape or form a Christian.

            10/8
            If we were face to face, instead of being disrespectful to me, you would be urinating in your pants. You, son, are a gutless coward. (George, please my post exactly as it is.)

            10/8
            Greetings Your Grace,
            Will you kindly tell me what you know about my ” school of ethics?”

            • Peter Millman says

              Myers: Greetings my pusillanimous friend, And what is the point of your stupid post? The only intelligent thing about your post is that you quoted my comments. That’s as close to intelligence you will ever get. Keep quoting me, hopefully, it will sink into your addled brain.

            • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

              ATTN: MIKE MYERS! You recently put this bizarre question to me: “Greetings Your Grace,Will you kindly tell me what you know about my ” school of ethics?”
              I’m missing the reference here, Mike: Please elaborate. I don’t recall commenting on Mike Myers’s school of ethics. Not every post I address to “Mike” is addressed to or concerns YOU! There are other Mikes and Michaels posting here.
              The only school of ethics I have mentioned here is that of Peter Millman.

      • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

        Peter Millman asked Reality Checker this:
        “Will you kindly show me the law that states a Presidential candidate must release his tax returns to the public? ”
        The question is facetious, like asking, “Kindly show me the law that states a Presidential candidate must tell the truth!”
        NO ONE has accused Mr Trump of breaking any law by his suspicious behavior in not revealing his tax returns. Your question is a distraction. Next time someone asks Trump about those returns, he can join your school of ethics and answer, “It’s a free country, isn’t it?” That’s the kind of puerile immoralist that’s running for President. Imagine such a puerile, “spoiled” boy’s access to the means of nuclear retaliation! He’s a large, blond industrial-strength Kin Jong Um (sp?).

        • Peter Millman says

          Greetings Your Grace,
          Will you kindly tell me what you know about my ” school of ethics?” If I were confessing before you, and you used that expression to me, I would tell you off- bishop or no bishop. Your Grace, what you have stated is a calumny. There’s a saying that you may want to consider: ” Don’t bite off more than you can chew.” Also, please don’t mistake my kindness for weakness.

          • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

            Hi, Peter! You asked what I know about your school of ethics. I know that you find it all right to distract us from the discussion of Trump’s singular refusal to reveal his tax returns in order to dishonestly ask what law states a presidential candidate must tell the truth and when reminded there is no such law and that no one said there was such, you try to divert the direction of the discussion to your hurt feelings and complain of hierarchical cruelty!
            You referred to your own kindness. On what basis? You’re not interested in kindness at all–only in forming retorts!
            May God be with you!

            • Peter A. Papoutsis says

              You referred to your own kindness. On what basis? You’re not interested in kindness at all–only in forming retorts!
              May God be with you!

              Wow! That’s the pot calling the kettle black.

              God bless my Good Bishop.

              Peter

              • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                No, Peter, wrong again! I never CLAIMED TO BE KIND, while you actually just did that and patted yourself on the back for it! That’s the pot MAKING UP a kettle!

                • Folks, it’s better to ignore…”bishop” Tikhon. If he actually is who he claims to be, he should be excommunicated. Yet he is not worth any trouble at all given the filth that he propagates.

                  God will deal with him. We have better things to do. Not sure why George allows him to poop all over his site but that is George’s business.

                • Peter Millman says

                  Greetings Bishop Tikhon Fitzgerald,
                  Shouldn’t a bishop of the church be kind instead of a nasty old crank? I hesitate to teach you manners because you are nearly as old as my father would have been. I tend to not take you very seriously,and have no respect for you at all as a bishop or a person. If reports have any truth , you have conducted yourself in a reprehensible manner in your role of bishop. My friend, respect is earned, never conferred by virtue of a person’s office. You have miles to go before you have earned my respect. I’m under the impression that you support Hillary Clinton. In my opinion, if this is true, then you are most definitely not a Christian. A Christian in good conscience cannot support the queen of abortion, hatred, and corruption. Don’t bother answering this because I don’t care about your opinion. I don’t understand why your superior Peter Papoutsis treats you with such deference. I really have no more interest in dialoguing with someone as benighted and dimwitted as you. May you someday find your way to Christ. He came to save sinners, of which you are foremost.

                • Peter A. Papoutsis says

                  I NEVER THOUGHT YOU WERE KIND. Don’t worry my Good Bishop. I never thought that of you…EVER!

                  Peter

            • Peter Millman says

              Your Grace, as far as hurt feelings go, I’ve been insulted by better men than you. I’m not complaining about hierarchical abuse because I don’t respect your authority. I couldn’t care less what you think about any subject. By the way, where do you get off calling my questions dishonest? Wrong again, as usual. Why should I respect someone who breaks the seal of confession, gossips and has a generally poor reputation? By the way, how long have you been a mindreader?

              • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                Peter Millman wrote, “Your Grace, as far as hurt feelings go, I’ve been insulted by better men than you.” SO WHAT?
                And he wrote, “I’m not complaining about hierarchical abuse because I don’t respect your authority.” Good, but SO WHAT?
                And he wrote, “By the way, where do you get off calling my questions dishonest?” Asking hypocritically what law required the Donald to reveal his tax returns WHILE KNOWING there was no such law, is DISHONEST QUESTIONING.
                And he wrote, “Wrong again, as usual.” No, I wasn’t wrong.
                And he asked, “Why should I respect someone who breaks the seal of confession, gossips and has a generally poor reputation?” I’ll bite. WHO is this person that broke the seal of Confession, gossips, and has a generally poor reputation? I quoted from a REPRODUCED copy of a personnel form, copies of which are maintained for ready reference in the files of the OCA, of a Diocese and Bishop of the OCA which did not quote anyone’s confession or reveal ANY sin confessed to anyone by anyone. If a certifying official wrote on a semi-public document, as is done in the case of a;most every ordination, “I have heard N’s confession and there are no impediments to his ordination” Is that official breaking the “seal of confession?”
                Finally, Peter wrote, “By the way, how long have you been a mindreader?” For a long time, more often as I’ve aged and gained experience of other people. Peter’s own words here often make his mind an open book! I find it highly amusing when someone speaks his or her mind and then asks if someone read it!
                A wiser person than I said that all history, including the Holy Gospels, is mostly gossip! As for bad reputation, I’d HOPE that my own reputation was bad with SOME individuals and ideological gangs!

                • Peter Millman says

                  Your “Grace,”
                  Is it possible that you don’t understand the English language? Please try to understand this: my question was not “dishonest” in the slightest, least, little bit; it was rhetorical. Obviously, there is no such law. My point was that releasing one’s tax returns is not a requirement for the presidency. Donald Trump has already released reams of financial documents. You want to play this silly little game of gotcha. So, my impercipient friend, Donald Trump is well within his rights to forego releasing his tax returns. I could raise many more salient points, but talking to you is like talking to a wall . In other words, my insentient friend, in my opinion, you are as thick as a brick. That’s one man’s opinion.

                  • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

                    Now I’m happy we got Peter Millman to drop his dishonest question and replace it with an honest statement of his opinion: “My point was that releasing one’s tax returns is not a requirement for the presidency.”
                    I think Peter’s claim that Trump “has already released reams of financial documents”, should be verified before accepting it—after all “reams’ may just be “hyperbole!” My insights include seeing that Trump is observing the letter of the law about his tax returns without observing what might be called the ground rules observed by previous honest candidates for the presidency. That’s legal, but it causes some to behold fear perceptively in his suspicion-arousing secrecy! What would Peter say about some woman who said to him: “Show me the law which says I can’t get an abortion!” Finally, Peter wrote, “I could raise many more salient points, but talking to you is like talking to a wall ” I’m still waiting for ONE salient point!
                    Oh, I’m not thick at all….fat, but not thick. Sticks and—what is it again?
                    “Thick” “Impercipient” “insentient.” You forgot “Oh, poo-poo on you!”

          • Bishop Tikhon (Fitzgerald) says

            You asked what I know about your school of ethics. I know that you find it all right to distract us from the discussion of Trump’s singular refusal to reveal his tax returns in order to dishonestly ask what law states a presidential candidate must tell the truth and when reminded there is no such law and that no one said there was such, you try to divert the direction of the discussion to your hurt feelings and complain of hierarchical cruelty!
            You referred to your own kindness. On what basis? You’re not interested in kindness at all–only in forming retorts!
            May God be with you!

  7. A very rich person:

    Wages, salaries, tips, etc. Attach Form(s) W-2 800,000,000.00
    Capital gain or (loss). Attach Schedule D if required. If not required, check here (1,000,000.000.00)
    Combine the amounts in the far right column for lines 7 through 21. This is your
    total income (200,000,000.00)

    Subtract line 36 from line 22. This is your adjusted gross income (200,000,000.00)
    Taxable income.
    Subtract line 42 from line 41. If line 42 is more than line 41, enter -0 -0-
    Add lines 56 through 62. This is your total tax -0-

    A regular working Joe with investments (perhaps in Trump, Inc.) that had a bad year:

    Wages, salaries, tips, etc. Attach Form(s) W-2 50,000.00
    Capital gain or (loss). Attach Schedule D if required. If not required, check here (55,000.00)
    Combine the amounts in the far right column for lines 7 through 21. This is your
    total income (5,000.00)
    Subtract line 36 from line 22. This is your adjusted gross income (5,000.00)
    Subtract line 42 from line 41. If line 42 is more than line 41, enter 0 -0-
    Add lines 56 through 62. This is your total tax -0-

    Is there any difference apart from the scale of the numbers? Or perhaps everyone should pay taxes on negative incomes?

    I remind you that we are in agreement on the other points.

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