Comments Posted By Sava

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More “Corruption” in the Russian Orthodox Church

CC: Not interested in a pissing contest with you. It was, I thought, obvious that I meant theologically. It’s now been a couple decades since JPII admitted the East was right about the filioque from the start. Benedict has made many positive comments about Orthodoxy, as the theologian which, by education and inclination, he is, especially the East’s ability to maintain what you call the Magisterium without any of the Roman enforcement mechanisms.

Benedict has made comments about “the Church becoming small” which have gotten good press. I think that is exactly what will happen. When that does occur, and I think that will be sooner than many realize, the differences between Rome and Constantinople will seem smaller than they have in centuries. Let us not forget that, on that last morning in 1453, Orthodox and Catholic soldiers celebrated a joint liturgy in Hagia Sophia and died on the walls together as the last Ottoman assault killed them all.

In theological terms of course I think Rome needs to come to us – if I didn’t think that, I wouldn’t really be Orthodox, would I? No offense meant. I am certain that, no matter what Hell throws at us, there will always be Orthodox hiding out and keeping Truth alive, on mountaintops and in the middle of deserts, no matter how oppressive the circumstances. When it all goes ugly again, please feel free to join us.

» Posted By Sava On May 8, 2012 @ 1:10 am

The Catholics can come to us, not the other way around, not suggesting anything different.

But I do think, under the coming pressures, Rome and Constantinople have every reason to overcome our differences, let us pray they do, without giving up on Orthodoxy, small or big “o”!

» Posted By Sava On May 6, 2012 @ 5:11 pm

The “separation of church and state” as the Founders conceived it in the 1780s was all about preventing a federally-mandated state church a la CofE in the UK. That’s all. It had nothing to do with how it has been twisted since the mid-20th century so that, now, it is a vehicle for anti-religious actions by the state. The cross, believed in at least nominally by the vast majority of Americans still, despite decades of anti-Christian propaganda in culture and state, is being driven from public life (in my home state, there was recently news about local atheists petitioning to remove a cross from a war memorial that’s over a hundred years old – who, except the genuinely God-hating, has the time and energy for such things?).

And our allies in most of this are Evangelicals who are mostly severely theologically impaired and view real Christians with unknowing contempt.

Not good, not good at all. At the risk of seeming alarmist, Orthodox need to prepare for ugly times ahead. The devout remnants of the Catholics will go underground with us – maybe then, finally, we can overcome the ugliness between us for the last millennium.

» Posted By Sava On May 6, 2012 @ 1:50 am

Breaking: More Info on the DOS and Bp Mark

Golden Dawn are a bunch of Greek far-right activists who’ve been around since the early 1990s, they’ve been taking advantage of Greece’s current crisis to engage in grass-roots activism. They’re undergoing a bit of a rebirth, having all but folded around 2005. They started as pretty overt neo-Nazis but turned into a more conventional hard-nationalist group, with strong affection for Orthodoxy. Most Greeks associate them with nationalist football hooliganism. Back in the 1990s they sent fighters to serve with the Serb army in Bosnia (ie with Mladic and Karadzic), more than a little controversial.

» Posted By Sava On May 1, 2012 @ 12:12 am

Think a lot about trannie Bolshies, do ya, Rod?

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 4:32 pm

Joseph: I am uncomfortable discussing journalistic ethics in real detail, as I’m neither a journalist nor an ethicist, but ponder this.

Let’s say Rod – or any professional journalist – wrote in his ‘day’ job about Wall Street. On the side, anonymously, he’s doing online postings, anonymously, about financial issues which are both a good deal racier than what he writes about ‘by day’ and could be construed as in conflict with that the day job. By day he’s a serious journalist – a member of a profession whose only real leg to stand on is integrity of the process – yet by night he’s a polemicist, controversialist, and fabulist. Worse, he posts on his “night-site” anonymous (sock puppet) comments … extolling himself.

Would that pass any smell-test? No, of course not. In the aftermath of the OCAT debacle I asked a couple friends who are real journalists about the situation – they’re not Orthodox and the name Dreher would mean nothing to them. They were shocked, appalled, and of the view that the person who did such a thing had violated the basic ethics of the profession and should never be a working journalist again.

Good enough for me.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 4:02 pm

Not at all. Per George, verbatim: ‘I will NOT tolerate calling people “evil” on this website’ … persumably “evil” was in quotes for a reason. Not called anyone “evil” and not gonna. Not how this Orthodox homeboy rolls. Very loaded term, as it should be. Stick to the facts.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 3:14 pm

PdnNJ: Flushed out another … what exactly? Love to hear this, really .. amuse me.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 3:12 pm

I don’t know many Greek rednecks, are you actually one? Cool if so. I’m a proud Slav redneck, we should get along fine.

Journalists, especially ones known to write on a given topic openly, ought not post (“publish”) things anonymously on that topic, saying things they would not be willing to say as themselves. Especially if they are of an, ahem, controversial nature. And definitely don’t sock-puppet comments about your own (anonymous) postings.

My journalist experience consisted of writing for a bit for my college paper … never even got paid … but even I was quite clear that the sort of thing Rod did was a big no-no.

I’m not aware that Dreher – to his credit – has ever exactly defended what he did with OCAT, since he’s too smart a guy to do that, it IS slimy and unethical; he’s just waited for “a decent interval” to enter the fray again – but it’s too soon. He needs to think about the Church, not his own prodigious “issues”.

PS I have no way mentioned here the unwisdom of Dreher’s entering the OCAT fray, when he hardly understood the issues, from a faith perspective – but that wasn’t unethical, merely narcissistic, uncharitable, and possibly mean.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 3:04 pm

George:

1. Please show me ANYWHERE where I used the term “evil” about ANYONE.

2. I don’t think Dreher’s a good guy, in fact the opposite, but I was paying him the compliment that I think he’s exactly right about the psychological driver re: Maymon.

3. When I start calling anyone “evil” – yes ANYONE; “evil” is a very loaded term among Christians, for good reason – please ban me. Otherwise, follow your own rules.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 2:56 pm

Are you actually reading anything I write, or are you functionally illiterate?

If you’re not YET clear on the ethically compromised nature of what Dreher did with OCAT, nothing I can add will help you.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 2:49 pm

Mr Cone: If you aren’t clear on what sliminess you ought to be repenting from, I can’t help you, you’re way too morally compromised for me, as a mere layman, to assist.

Now: “I neither called you a shill or “Sava-come-lately”, but merely listed possibilities.” Ok, you’ve been around Rod too long. You called me a shill. Get over it. Not nice, and not true, but I’ve been called worse. Man up about it. You may think me a bad guy, but I’m nobody’s shill – I can neither be bought nor rented.

It takes a special, fey kind of “man” to call someone a shill then protest that you didn’t. Man up, since Rod won’t.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 2:47 pm

I pray every day, thanks.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 1:53 pm

Nice try; you lose.

I can’t help but notice that you didn’t reply to my previous unmasking of your distortions of my words AKA idiocy.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 1:38 pm

Ok Stankovic, that gets an LOL from me.

Worst of trolls? Naaah … I just have limited tolerance for Protestant-masquerading-as-Orthodox BS.

If you really are -ic(h) you and I are cousins, maybe even kume back in the old world, so be nice.

This is getting all very ghettoized, in a wonderful way the white boys wouldn’t understand, so suffice to say that it’s tough to have illusions about The One True Faith when the local beacon of said OTF is granddad with his love for rakije and an eye (never touch!) for short skirts. We’re all human, and he was the best pravoslavac anyone could ever meet, intermittently sinful heart and all.

On my best day I’m not sure I’m as good as he was on his worst.

THAT is the spirit of Orthodoxy, and THAT is what Dreherovic and Conejvic wil NEVER get.

LOL again … I sent your insult back with a smile, a kiss, and a shot of sljivo.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 1:34 pm

Rod: You’re a bad person but you ain’t dumb. I think your “psych eval” of Maymon re: Antiochians is exactly right … one more reason (is it needed, really?) to put the kibosh on this one.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 1:05 pm

Anonimity is what it is. Alas, I’m not journalist, never have been, unlike Rod, who is … sorry, was. He’s just another blogger now.

Rod, I’ve wanted to dislike you but, really, your sanctimonious act is just so damn … cute!

Go back to the fey longing for France which is your speciality and leave manly things to men.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 12:55 pm

I’m not going to say anything publicly – because I’m anonymous here but this is an open forum (got that, Rod?) … suffice to say, if you seek, ye shall find.

Nuff said.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 11:58 am

Nikos: When did I say I was good anything? I’m a sinner, I can’t be the first among sinners in every category, but when I was young I gave it a go.

I am, however, tired of the needless public factionalism in the OCA, it’s ruining everything. This is surely something the IT revolution did not help. Stokoe at least had the decency to shut up, I would expect the same of Dreher &Co(ne). They are all culpable.

My point has been proved here because every criticism I’ve made of Dreher and his ilk – they are harsh criticisms but they are warranted – I get hit with “Stokoe alert!” “Drezhlo alert!” etc. Um, no. Automatically you assume I’m pro-somebody beacause I think Dreher and his online pals are slimy. I’m pro-Orthodoxy, it’s that simple, no water carried here for any gang in the Church except JC. Plague on the houses of ALL those who had brough such nastiness, division, and slime into the heart of the OCA.

As for the thickness of my Slavic a**, I’m a career officer in the US military, I’ve been to war – no offense, but a bunch of church lads and ladies won’t cause sleepless night here.

This issue is indeed +Mark and, yet again, weird OCA machinations make me queasy … and it can only be made worse by the pontifications of – wait for it, you know it’s coming – Rod Dreher!

Peace out ….

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 11:54 am

Mr Cone: You are such an unserious person I don’t have the time to bother with you, except to note that you have very untruthfully called me a “shill.”

I am nothing of the sort, I carry no water for any faction in the OCA or Orthodoxy – unlike you and Roddo, I care about the Church, not just one part of it.

I wish Jonah well, despite some misgivings I have about him, because I care about the Church; the Met deserves better advocates – yes, I’m looking right at you and Herr Dreher.

You (pl) seem to have no idea the discredit you brought on the Church with your disgusting methods. I don’t hear a lot of metanoia here, to be frank.

You are – of course – screaming about how awful Stokoe is (and he is) as if that justifies what you did; it does not. This black-white “the OCA is binary” nonsense is, quite literally, killing the OCA. Please, please cut it out.

This – and this alone – I hold mentally unbalanced converts like you and Dreher for. We are well past the point of any of this being a youthful error on your (pl) part.

Now, grow up and cut out the “Sava-come-lately” badmouthing (I’m not new at any of this, very long at it actually, just new at commenting online about it) and calling me nasty and untrue things like “shill.”

Not true and not nice.

Don’t claim to be Mr Big Christian while doing this. Please stop and pray about it.

If you won’t then please kiss my Slavic a**.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 11:05 am

Not gonna bother with you, Mr Cone, because you are – as you have falsely accused me of being – the very definition of a shill.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 10:57 am

I am not.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 10:56 am

George: Stop misconstruing my words to make a non-existent point. You brought “criminality” into this, not me. What Dreher did with OCAT was slimly, nasty, unethical (by the standards of his profession), not illegal. I have, literally, never had a good word to say about Stokoe and what he did. He’s a dirtbag, to be frank. Don’t misdirect.

On the other hand, I don’t see Stokoe on here, or anywhere else far as I know, telling everyone how great he is and how it’s all a “misunderstanding.”

What you seem not to get – at this point it must be willful ignorance – is that Dreher seriously violated the ethical code he was trained in and allegedly lives by when he did what he did. I am not willing to give him a pass on it, I don;t know why you should either.

Stokoe is a bad guy AND SO IS DREHER … how can you not see this?

Instead you have fallen into the Dreherian “logic” of “we’re good, they’re evil” so anything is permissable, even when you know it’s wrong.

There is a spirit at work here, I’m pretty confident it’s not the Holy Spirit, however.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 10:09 am

Again: nope ….

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 9:33 am

George: Unlike Rod I’m not a career journalist, so I have no professional ethics which make my commenting anonymously problematic, and worse.

Rod knew the rules, perfectly well, and he trashed them. Especially when he sock-puppeted comments about HIS OWN posts. Not even cool by internet standards, indeed slimy.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 9:31 am

My heroes are Christ, the Holy Apostles, the Fathers of the Church, and all the saints. I’ll withhold judgement on anyone currently living, myself very much included.

Part of what I object to most about the Dreherification of so much of the inside-baseball OCA debate has been his (now customary) manner of creating a good-people-vs-bad-people narriative, which is very neat, tidy, and wrong.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 9:28 am

It should have been perfectly obvious that I meant that Dreher’s very emotional criticisms of the RCC meant little to me because it is not MY church, whereas his emotional dart-throwing at parts of the OCA is different because that one IS my church, and yours, and Rod’s, and above all Christ’s church.

“Duh” as my kids would say.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 9:26 am

Nikos: Back off, dude. Nice way to avoid what I’m saying by bringing up Stan/Barb/It Drezhlo … which has nothing to do with what I was discussing. All sides have flakes and weirdos, that should be obvious.

I have nothing against converts, I’m married to one – and most days she is a better Orthodox than yours truly, despite my raising in the faith and coming from a somewhat priestly family (how I know the dirt, btw).

Converts and cradles both have their strengths – and weaknesses. I’m pretty open about my shortcomings – Dreher & Co, not so much.

I already said +Mark is a bad choice, I never said it was because he’s a convert. Read more closely.

If you want to engage in more than ad hominems, let’s discuss – otherwise calm down and be sure to take your meds.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 9:14 am

I’m not gonna waste any energy on defending the RCC here … this pravoslavac didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday, nor does he go to bat for the Vatican.

My issue is not that Rod was offended deeply by the corruption in Roman ranks (which we call a child sexual abuse scandal but it was really about a lot more, indicating profound homosexualization of the hierarchy, and along with it deep personal and corporate corruption) – who would not be?

My concern is that Rod embraced Rome with great fervor, then discovered – shocked, shocked! – that the RCC wasn’t all that is was cracked up to be, it somehow wasn’t worthy of all his convert-love, so he poured his heart out for years, creating a huge psychodrama with villains, more villains, some good guys, etc … all written in Rod’s special, self-absorbed, emotionally overwrought style.

And he’s done it again, with MY church — that is what I don’t like. And I especially don’t like how Orthodox can’t see what he’s done, why it’s wrong, and that I don’t see any reason to think he’s changed. There will be more Dreher-driven drama, which I am quite certain is bad for the Church.

If Rod had any personal honor he would have ceased ANY writing about the Church after last year’s appalling debacle.

At root, what Rod needs is psychological help. I hope he gets it, about as much as I hope he cuts out his weird vendetta against the “bad guys” (as defined by Roddo) in the OCA and Orthodoxy generally.

What Dreher and all the other obsessed converts don’t get is that there is a lot of OCA history that matters – I mean just since 1970 or so, not “lost in the mists of time” – that drives a lot of what really goes on. You either know this stuff (and, say, its large role in OCA personnel matters) or you don’t – they don’t and worse, they don’t even seem to want to know.

There’s a lot of dirt, a lot of baggage, surrounding EVERYONE in this show (note I dropped a hint about +Jonah … those in the know, know), there are no all-white-and-clean good guys of the simple morality tale so desired by Rod & Co.

Worst of all, they got used, I mean seriously played, by some skilled types – and Rod and his ilk are too dumb to even know it, because they are interested more in their Fantasy Orthodoxy (if only we could have cloned +Dmitri!?!) than in any Church which exists.

This is not healthy for our Church, I promise you.

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 8:54 am

Nope!

» Posted By Sava On April 30, 2012 @ 12:48 am