You Liberals, Progressives and other die-hard NeverTrumpers might want to rethink this whole defiant “Sanctuary Cities” position.
Far be it from me as a contrarian (and that’s where we Greeks tend to fall on the Rodney King/kum-ba-ya spectrum of things), I have a soft spot in my heart for defeated people who won’t give up the cause, whatever that cause is. I guess that’s why the Good Lord planted me in the South as well –a double dose of defiance.
Especially if that cause is a principled one. Unfortunately for the Left, the principle of Sanctuary Cities is one that you haven’t through. Oh sure, your mayors will get glowing press coverage as they stand up to the evil Trumpenfuehrer as he sends in ICE and/or the National Guard to round up those poor, hurting aliens but you’ll be surprised at who some of your allies will be in short order.
Because most of you think with your emotions rather than your brains, you don’t see what’s on the horizon. And that is the legitimacy of Secession. Sanctuary Cities are nothing more than a neo-Confederate ploy to restrict the power of the Federal government, as explicated in the Tenth Amendment. When this realization finally enters your collective noggins –and more importantly, if it wins–it’ll be too late. Oh well.
So, I say: “Bring it on!” If nothing else, it will make it harder for y’all to continue to demonize the South. It’s a win-win in my book.
The first to be detained should be the mayors, sheriff, and chief of police if they won’t follow the rule of law, they swore to defend.
Not to mention cut all federal funding, until compliance.
They should also be held accountable for the crimes committed by the released criminal aliens they protect and shelter. Their first responsibility is to their citizens. They have not only failed their citizens but also put them and their property at risk.
I support state rights, but these mayors have gone completely rogue, when they give special rights to foreign invaders and ignore the law, and the safety of their American citizens.
Well said!
I live just across the Bay from the City and County of San Francisco de Assisi. *sigh* Ever since the election, the local news radio station (KCBS, 740 AM/106.9 FM) has had to feature–since the orators are S.F. supervisors, mayor, etc.–grand statements to the effect that “San Francisco will remain a city of sanctuary” and the like.
The Board of Supervisors (sometimes locally referred to as Stupidvisors) has already come forth with a couple of statements that, even if federal funds are removed from the City, the Supes will continue with their sanctuary policy.
No one has yet publicized (to my knowledge) the per-capita $ that S.F. residents will have to cough up to cover the removal of federal funds, currently estimated at $5 million per year.
Then the recent news story that Supervisor I think David Campos, Campos anyway he wants to have some kind of dedicated fund, SF taxpayer paid for fund, to “defend” the “immigrants” in legal proceedings. Meanwhile if you google worse roads in America LA comes in first SF second. Parts of 19th avenue (Highway 1) look like damage from the 1906 Earthquake. Democrat Blue States notorious for roadway dilapidation my guess. So while “America Becomes Great” Sanctuary Cities are gonna
be filled with potholes and increasingly dangerous indigent population mix they’re
gonna have their crime problems, SF has seen way increasing of car break ins stuff
along those lines, have that building that is tilting, “leaning left” tower of pizza, they need a Republican, Colin Kaepernick, well at least he didn’t vote for Hillary, thats a start. San Francisco 1800’s early 1900’s was by and large pretty conservative value wise. Look at some of the names of the main streets. Fillmore Hayes Geary Van Ness
Clement. Of course the relics of St. John Maximovich are there though they changed his vestments to some contemporary bright fruity looking MP colors Lord make
San Francisco great again!
I remember decades back when the governor of South Dakota was trying to get an American Indian extradited from California to stand trial for murder. Moonbeam Jerry Brown wouldn’t cooperate because minorities were being oppressed.
The legend is that SD law enforcement started telling some of their repeat violent criminals to go to California and that as long as they stayed there, SD would make no effort to bring them to trial. There were even rumors of cops buying them bus tickets. I could see something like that happening with sanctuary cities.
Sounds like a jobs program to me. Swear in legions of new ICE enforcement agents, turn them loose in and around sanctuary cities and have attorneys remove any cases against them to federal court immediately if anyone interferes with them, using the FBI as backup.
Agents, vehicles, armaments, handcuffs and buses.
Self deportation will also rise if he were to initiate this.
Personally, I would rather Trump just build a wall, deport the violent ones and get them paying taxes. But who knows where he will land on this one? The Muslim presence in America is more of a problem IMHO.
Here is the rub: under the Constitution local and state governments have the authority and the responsibility to resist federal power when those local and state governments constituency feels the feds have over-reached.
It is called interposition. The founders were all for it. It is at the heart of true federalism.
George is correct that the liberals have always denied the principal. If they are going to insist on sanctuary cities they are tacitly endorsing the principal. They will fail to see the logical link that George makes however.
If conservatives are to be consistent we have to recognize the validity of the principal and support that principal. Specific instances of its application can be argued, but that is really hard to do without endorsing unConstitutional federal power.
So, I say go for it. Just don’t expect federal tax dollars to pay for the consequences.
That is going to be the rub for the liberals especially.
They do not make logical arguments. They certainly argued the other way when Arizona tried to interposition itself to require more strict enforcement of immigration rules and laws.
If we have any hope of returning to a Constitutional republic, these fights have to occur and the state-local governments have to win most of them..
The 10th Amendment Center is doing yeoman’s duty to support enumerated powers for the federal government.
If we want uniform laws, federal power has to be exercised way beyond the authority given in the Constitution.
If we want more freedom within the union, then we have to support the authority of states to legislate in the non-enumerated areas.
Both the commerce clause and the general welfare clause have been eggregiously over used to create more federal control than the Constitution allows.
Political freedom is messy. That is one if the many difficulties of allowing ideology to rule politics.
However, the constitution does give congress the power to pass laws for naturalization. It seems to me a stretch to separate immigration from naturalization and, considering the can of worms it would open if states were granted the power to regulate immigration, it is a stretch worthy of the Fantastic Four’s mister fantastic to even attempt to argue that immigration is not one of the enumerated powers of the Federal government and has been reserved to the state. This is not a battle that cities or states should fight, or win.
Sanctuary Sities are simply about not using city resources to do the feds’ work for various practical, legal, and political reasons. Nothing about being a Sanctuary City says the feds (e.g., ICE) can’t come in and do their jobs themselves.
Communities across the country resisted for a number of reasons:
“While most turned over illegal immigrants accused of serious crimes, many refused to turn over undocumented immigrants arrested on minor charges. And some refused to have police ask about immigration status in the first place. For some city leaders, the reason was simple: they opposed mass deportations, and they didn’t want to have any role in assisting the federal government’s efforts. But there were also legal considerations. Some federal courts have ruled that detaining a person beyond his release date amounts to holding someone without a court order, a violation of the Fourth Amendment. There were also practical concerns. Many police departments feared that a policy of arresting people due to their immigration status would discourage victims or witnesses of crimes from coöperating with investigations. Some cities also worried that it would lead to racial profiling.”
Other resources on what Sanctuary Cities are and are not, and their history:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-limits-of-sanctuary-cities
https://ww2.kqed.org/lowdown/2015/07/10/explainer-what-are-sanctuary-cities/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/08/4-big-things-to-know-about-sanctuary-cities-and-illegal-immigration/
Sorry; what’s the source for your paragraph-long quote which begins, “While most turned over…”?
thx
E-verify is more important, George has always opposed fining the companies that hire them I support that. The santctarcy cities thing is soft paw since if you want to get rid of about 2 million take away the job market. I supported deporting them when the committed crimes but lots of folks that supported that supported legalizing the rest like Bill O’ Riley. Also, the Great Trump in 2012 wanted to legalized them and was critical of Mitt Romney for saying self-deport if they lost jobs. Trump promise not to touch Medicare like Ted Cruz but appointed Tom Price that supports making medicare a voucher.
Cynthia, where did you get the idea that I was against e-verify? If I ever gave that impression, I apologize. I most certainly do believe in e-verify.
What if it were Greeks, Bulgarians, etc being threatened with deportation rather than Mexicans and other offal of the South? What would you protest then?
Not at all!
I am the son of an illegal alien. My dad however did right by the law: he self-deported to Canada and came back in legally. Got a job, never received a penny from the gummint, was gainfully employed until his retirement and never –never–demanded special rights because of his ethnicity.
George. My father, memory eternal, came here legally, but like many Greeks he always kept company with other Greeks, and even though he could read and write, his English was not great. I know many older Greeks that have lived here 40-50 years, who can’t read or write English, and can barely speak English. Obviously the GOA enables this, but that is a another subject for another day. There lives would have been much better if they went outside their Greek social circle, and made an effort improve their English.
The new immigrants, legal or not, not only stay in their social circles, but a good proportion also want a free ride, before they even become citizens. Worse yet they want us to accept their culture and language, if not we are xenophobes, and racists. The irony is they fled their country, for a better life and now want to change ours, to resemble theirs! Say what you about Greeks, but they are very patriotic, and love and cherish want America has given them. Opportunities, NOT FREE RIDES!
Dino, I wouldn’t be so hard on your old man! Same story with mine! He’s been here 60 years and his English remains fractured if not actually broken. I read somewhere that English has more irregular verbs than any other language and the degree of one acquiring any fluency depends on where an immigrant is on a language continuum or some such. The social circle you talk about was a necessary crutch to help my dad acculturate in some fashion (i.e. where to find a job, find a diner where you could eat a lenten meal, etc.)
For example, it’s easier for a Dutchman to learn English than a German or Scandinavian. A speaker of the Romance languages comes next, then Slavs and Greeks, then Semites, then last of all Mongoloid speakers.
I’d love to talk with you off-line about this at some point. Perhaps our paths will cross someday.
Hi George,
My late grandmother was ninety years old and still spoke broken English. I never knew my late grandfather since he died three years before I was born, but from what I understand, he also spoke broken English.
I see nothing wrong with Greeks sticking together. After all, Hellenism should be preserved; it’s the best culture in world history. The reading of the Greek classics is what sparked the Italian renaissance. The Greek American success story is very inspiring. By the way, my late Uncle George was a truly great man, and the hardest worker I’ve ever seen.
It’s very enjoyable indeed! I just wish we had a better exponent of it here in the States than the Zorba-the-Greekist mentality that pervades the GOA. A genuine aristocratic uplifting of the human spirit. Not that I don’t appreciate the canon of Kazantzakis but I miss the heroism, the virtus or masculine arete of authentic Hellenism. We in the West are worse off for ignoring it. Hence the present egalitarian degradation and degeneracy that pervades our modern civilization.
Seriously, think of the Classics: Homer, Aeschylus. Even the Alexiad and the Palamite debates of the Byzantine period. Authentic folk dancing (my sister’s totally into preserving these).
You do realize George that Kazantzakis was ex-communicated for his heretical version of Christ in the Last Temptation of Christ: Christ fully human and that Zorba the Greek was his attempt to depict the Nietzschean theme of the Apollonian vs the Dionysian spirit?
That the rational is effete and that only indulgence in the passions frees the true human spirit enthralled by morality and Christianity. Producing the Transvaluation of all values. The unforgivable sin: “When a woman calls a man to her bed and he does not go”. Even when it means death to the woman. Somehow that is true life.
As such Zorba is a restatement of a nihilist German’s misinterpretation of Greek culture and philosophy.
Where’s the Greek?
Yes, I know all about Kazantzakis and his heretical beliefs. Having said that, I enjoyed his writing even if I don’t agree with the spirit behind it.
Michael,
He wasn’t excommunicated: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2014/01/the-myth-of-excommunication-of-nikos.html
However, I do not think his writings reflected Orthodoxy very clearly.
When I was reading Last Temptation back decades ago, I read something that said he had been. Obviously it still raised a ruckus.
I know I am right on the symbolic nature of the two main characters in Zorba though. Something the movie messed with by making Zorba’s friend an Englishman…
I enjoyed the books at the time, sorta. Last Temptation just seemed weird. Unsatisfactory in its treatment of Jesus Christ and salvation.
Was not Jesus Christ Superstar not taken from Last Temptation? Seem to remember it was.
Liked that too and still have some of the songs stuck iny head.
Kazantzakis was clearly a not Orthodox in belief. Seems he was much more interested in communicating political beliefs rather than religious ones.
The longer I am in the Church, the more shallow he becomes. One of those flirtations of youth that is without much substance.
I don’t know about Dionysian etc but Zorba, like much of Kazantzakis, is a great book when you’re a young man. Good movie, too.
My favorite Kazantzakis book remains Freedom or Death, a novel of the Cretan rebellion against the Turks. But I haven’t read any of the books for decades.
I only remember the overall idea of Last Temptation, but it seems to me that the theme (it’s a novel, of course) was that Jesus was indeed fully human, and had the free choice to “come down from the Cross”. He was tempted to live as other men, to have a wife, family, and normal life. The book, as I remember, is a story of what might have happened if he had done so.
I have no idea of the state of Kazantzakis’ Orthodoxy at all, but it certainly doesn’t appear to me that a Christian writer could not address such a theme in a novel.
Some years back I came across this paperback:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greeks
H.D.F. Kitto “The Greeks” Penguin publication.
The author wrote about the old original “Democracy” and “citizenship” in the days of “The Golden Age of Geece.” One day you could just be only some average Joe “registered to vote” next day if they called upon you you would have to be ready to serve as ruler. Thus anyone having only citizenship in Greek society of the time would have to have the ability to rule. No slouches. Everyone had to have all the competencies in Arts and Sciences amongst citizenry. Also the athletic training. No set political hierarchy, one day you might be on top, next day right back to the bottom. Everyone had to have well rounded education and capabilities, jack of all trades, no “specializing” in any field or other, if you were a “specialist” of some sort or other you were looked down and frowned upon. Egypt around that same time was much the opposite. All hierarchical. “Specialization” in all different fields of endeavor, class structure. Different approach. So Greece having only been a not so large island and for only so many centuries had all those lasting civilizational achievements we can trace back, clearly trace back, because they were able to develop amongst their citizenry many multi-talented individuals that were able to communicate ideas and develop innovations in different spheres of activity and that was “The Golden Age” of Greece. Then that time period ended. The legacy was passed on. The Capitol i.e. is not a pyramid, it has columns, doric, ionic and the other one, it will come to me. But anyway I think Kitto in his book saw what was the greatest contribution of the old classic Greek civilization was this “Democracy” where any one citizen had more than just only a “vote” however a “voice” that could make all the difference of an outcome in a forum and you did not have too have any kind of backing from any political group or anyone you just had to be able to make a convincing argument probably mostly based on Socratic principles of discourse and maybe some polemics thrown into the mix.
Then, there was that one time when some person got close enough
to St. John of Kronstadt in a crowd and asked him what he thought
about Democracy? St. John, he told him, Democracy is below. Above
Kingdom!
One account I have heard personally from person in family an
old Grand Aunt blind from birth at 40 years of age has visitation
with from St. John Kronshtatski eyes opened up. It”””s estimated
he has brought several people back from the dead but one is concrete. When he was just a small little kid in his village anyone had a problem they went to him he prayed and it was taken care of. He very much had serious confrontation with dudes that went Bolshevik he had the clairvoyance and denied them communion.
The original ROCOR Akathist that was written when ROCOR canonized ST. JOHN in 1964 that is the one that has numerous references to his battles with the Bolsheviks.
Subsequent MP “akathist” just worthless garbage.
Alfeyev can’t even sing in the choir total non talent, meanwhile Kirill is sending condolences to Castro “mingling Light with Darkness” and then THEN What the HECK ?? Gundyaev’s 70th Birthday ?? Happy birthday to you happy birthday to you Gundyaev ok so the MP is a joke.
Hi Cy,
You’ve given me a new saint to admire. Great post! Thank you for the interesting story.
George my father was a narrow minded, stuborn, quick tempered, church dodging, loudmouth Greek, with a heart of gold. He drove me crazy, but I Love him and miss him very much. Thank God he came back into communion with our Lord a few years before his passing. May his memory be eternal.
Enjoy you dad while he is still around, and Xronnia Polla to your Pops! If we ever cross paths , dinner is on me.
I’d love to meet with you! With all of you for that matter!
My dad is the same. Still old school stubborn Greek, but very good natured. His English is atrocious, but he got through 46 years of hard work with it, and now is down in Florida with the rest of the Greeks he knows enjoying the good life. God bless him. Don’t know how he and his generation did it, but they did it.
Peter
Our fathers were of a sturdier generation, whether they were Greek or not, immigrant or not. I know I don’t measure up to them.
Peter A Papoutsis. Life was harder for our father’s generation, but at the same time much more simple. Most men, especially Greeks knew their roles, in regards to family, and nothing compares to Greek mothers of my mothers, and grandmothers generation. Today parenting is so much more complicated, and spiritually dangerous . If I had a choice I would have preferred to belong to the World War 2 generation. I would have fit in much better, of course, that is, if I survived the war.
I will always remember once when I was going through a rough period of life, and started complaining how rough I had it. My mother jumped out of the kitchen still holding her butcher knife, and began reminding me how rough her parents, and relatives had it during the Turkish, and German occupation, and don’t even get baba started on his father’s time in Stalin’s Gulag, and all the friends and relatives he saw dead from starvation, and illness from the frozen elements. Needless to say when ever I get down, their memory, and strength gets me back up. Xronnia Polla to father as well Peter, enjoy him will you can!
Mongoloid languages? Come on, George!
You know: Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, etc. Would Altaic have been better? I see nothing wrong with the linguistic and/or racial description “mongoloid.” I don’t view it as a pejorative.
Altaic certainly. That would include Mongolian, Turkish,and possibly Korean and Japanese. It used to be thought that Uralic languages such as Finnish, Estonian, and Hungarian were related to the Altaic family. This theory is not really widely believed today. I thought I would say something before His Grace gets on your case.
A good portion of the sentiment that drove the election results has to do, not with immigration itself, but with a well-founded sense that those who don’t play by the rules get free benefits for which those who do play by the rules pay.
Enter the country illegally and get free healthcare, free education, free welfare benefits, etc.
On the other hand, those who work hard and play by the rules get nothing free, and their own concerns are ignored by government – all while being told they must have ‘compassion’ on those who break the rules by which they must live, must pay for a prisoner’s sex change operation, and on and on it goes…
This sentiment is far less ‘xenophobia’ than a simple, understandable anger at being ignored in favor of social and political agendas to which they did not consent and for which they know they will inevitably pay. These folks are neither xenophobic nor racist. They remember well that their fathers immigrated to the United States (LEGALLY) expecting and demanding nothing of government save opportunity, and they are weary of the lie that the sort of openness to immigration being demanded of them today is the equivalent of that of the past.
Yes.
My granddad was Canadian; indeed, he served in the Royal Air Force during the First World War (there was no Royal Canadian Air Force back then). My dad was born in British Columbia, too, then the family moved to the US in the late 1920s.
They never demanded special rights because of their Canadian ethnicity, either, George. When I tell people I’m the son and grandson of immigrants, my wife (both of whose maternal grandparents were born on Dalmatian islands), is always quick to say British Columbia doesn’t count!
As an aside, my grandmother, born and raised in Kentucky, was naturalized an American citizen in 1947. I’ve seen her naturalization papers. She married her Canadian in 1921 and thereby lost her American citizenship, as happened to such women back then. She always did say that the examination in 1947 was pretty easy for her: she’d been a teacher it the US when my granddad met her.
Such is my family’s story of immigrant struggle…
Hey Jim, one of my mother’s ancestors arrived on the Mayflower as an indentured servants of the chosen.
My paternal great-grandfather left Germany to get away from Bismarck’s conscription into the Prussian Army-came through Ellis Island.
Also had a maternal cousin who married an Irish seaman who jumped ship in New York and became a leather worker in Iowa. The two routinely had a marital party every Sat that focused on Irish whiskey and Irish jigs. They also kept an alligator in their back yard. What’s your point?
A nation-state has an obligation to establish borders and defend them within the rule of their law.
You might argue, as some do, that nation-states should no longer exist. If that is your position then wide open borders is consistent with your position.
If, however, you desire the concreteness of a defined polity with reasonable laws, then the defense of our borders and what is left of our culture is required.
That includes setting limits on who and how many and what origin of the people who come here and the ability to require those who circumvent those parameters, whoever they are to leave. I am sure George does not care who those folks are, just that they are outside the limits of law.
The irrational attempt to label George or any one else with an emotional pejorative label does not advance nor communicate what your position is.
It just makes you look petty and fearful.
What are you afraid of?
George has made his position clear as well as what he fears will happen if we do not reestablish lawful control of our borders.
If you wish to engage him, you have a responsibility to respond in kind.