All the News that’s Fit to Curate/Kevin Spacey Plays the Gay Card

My, my, my! It’s been a busy couple of weeks, hasn’t it? This one’s a twofer. Where to begin?

How about here: It’s long been my suspicion that we don’t have investigative journalism anymore (if ever). Instead, we have “news” organizations that curate the news, not report it. A story is only broken when one of two things occurs: it’s time to take someone down or the story can’t be contained any longer.

Then there’s this: unless you’ve been living under a rock, you should know that Kevin Spacey has now been outed as a child molester. In a desperate attempt to minimize the damage to his career, he decided to play the Gay Card. This of course has blown up in his face because it played to the worst stereotypes of homosexuals since time immemorial. If anything, homosexuals are spitting mad at him for giving up the game (so to speak).

It’s almost a perfect storm of bad news for the dominant sociocultural narrative of liberalism.

It’s long been my suspicion that elements of the Deep State withhold evidence until it suits their needs. Evidence has been hard to come by however. Now, thanks to James O’Keefe of Project Veritas, we know that there are certain people placed at informational choke-points (in this case The New York Times) who manage the news; controlling its dissemination. In doing so, they protect well-placed people who are part of the Establishment. We now know this is the case with Harvey Weinstein, a well-known pervert who was a key player in the Oligarchy. The Times had him dead to rights thirteen years ago but chose to quash it. A few years later, Ronan Farrow (the son of Mia Farrow and either Frank Sinatra or Woody Allen) was ready to run with this story but was forbidden from doing so.

Really, they’ve been doing this for quite awhile now. Remember Walter Duranty way back in the 1930s, when he was actually on the ground in the Soviet Union and saw how bad the Holodomyr in the Ukraine was? And how he so chicken-shitedly soft-pedaled it? The Times went out of its way to give him the benefit of the doubt and that sorry bastard actually won a Pulitzer Prize for his mendacious reporting. It’s still on the wall in some hallway at the Times, they never having the decency to return it.

Other avenues of exposure exist however. Seth MacFarlane, the profane (and truth be told, blasphemous) creator of Family Guy has long played a cat-and-mouse game with the Oligarchy and their media enablers, taunting them with his inside knowledge. Look at this snippet from an episode broadcast back in 2005, which spills the beans on Kevin Spacey:

Compare this if you will with what we now know what the New York Times knew about Harvey Weinstein, way back in 2004. Or what former child actor Corey Feldman has been saying about paedophiles in Hollywood for at least a decade now:

Or Elijah Wood:

Or Jodie Foster:

See what I mean?

The purpose of modern infotainment is not to “inform” the public but to control the narrative. This is a far more sophisticated operation than anything that obtained behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. Unlike the typical Russian, Pole or Bulgarian, We are offered the illusion of a free press while never being allowed to know that it’s really a controlled press, a managed media (so to speak). In order to preserve us from political truths, the Military Industrial Complex offers us a steady diet of semi-nudity and perversion, lulling us in the belief that we have free and unfettered access to the “news”.

Always keep that in mind whenever we hear our national officials and their sycophants on CNN, FOX or MSNBC tell us about how “evil” or “undemocratic” President X of Ruritania is and why we need to go to war because of Muh Demokrissy. Or some such.

As for Spacey, he did us a favor in that he played right into the hands of the Patriarchy. Yes, homosexuality is very often the result of child molestation. We’ve always known that. That’s why most societies have laws against paedophilia. In a way, it’s a favor because we now see that feminism, faggotry and egalitarianism are merely the props of nihilism. It can’t be any other way. And because they are nihilistic to the core, they can’t withstand scrutiny and as such, are destined for the ash-heap of history.

More to follow, I’m sure.

In the meantime, those followers of this Blog who thought that Pizzagate was a nothing-burger, you miiiiight want to rethink your position. Those hoof-beats you hear are steadily getting louder.

Comments

  1. Joseph Lipper says:

    George, this is what Noam Chomsky has been saying all along, such as in his 1988 book Manufacturing Consent. Chomsky wrote about how our government knows that in order to protect itself from populist uprisings, it must constantly control the news and provide for distractions with sports and entertainment. The worst thing for any government that relies on the illusion of democracy for it’s power, is for the public to actually be paying attention to what is really going on.

    It’s amazing that in our U.S.A. culture, it has so often been the sports heroes and the actors that are held in so high regard. Sports heroes and actors are the priests of popular culture in the U.S.

    If people actually do become disenchanted with Hollywood and the NFL, then how will the government compensate for this loss of public distraction?

  2. Peter A. Papoutsis says:

    I have always maintained, and will continue to maintain a very REAL link exists between Homosexuality and Pedophilia. Yes I know the studies all say there is no link, but reality keeps intruding and destroying that narrative. (RCC scandal, Lolital Express ala Jeffrey Epstein, the allegations against X-Men Director Brian Singer, Hollywood in general ala Corey Feldman, etc.,) Thank you Kevin for once again proving the link exists and is real.

    Peter

    • Good grief man! Take your own advice at least.

      For all your citations; there are about 20 adult male on juvenile female stories that didn’t make the news cycle.

      • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

        Wow! You are more upset with me then with Kevin Spacey’s actions. Hmmmm!?

        Peter A Papoutsis

    • John Pappas says:

      Homosexuality and pederasty go together like peas in a pod. Look at the Catholic Church. The child abuse problem was a homosexual problem. 90% of the children abused were adolescent boys.

      Now take a look at Giacomo SanFilippo’s latest post: A RESPONSE TO ROSS DOUTHAT’S ORTHODOX ADMIRER.

      SanFilippo is a self-appointed homosexual moralist who along with some other malcontents want to homosexualize the Orthodox Church. In the article he reads his own pathology into the friendship of young boys thereby injecting himself into their relationship.

      Creepy? Sure is. Read this:

      The two innocent boys pictured in this photo might have romantic feelings for each other. In the secret recesses of their own minds if not out loud to others, they might describe their attachment as being in love with each other. Young children often experience romantic love for someone of the opposite or their own gender in all the freshness of innocence.

      Every gay man from young adulthood to old age with whom I have ever spoken about these things—and there have been hundreds, over the years—was the age of these boys or younger when he realized, or began to realize, that he had the same interest in boys that most other boys had in girls.

      We need to keep him away from the boys.

      • Peter Ray Millman says:

        Thank you John for the excellent information and references. I found them very eye opening to say the least. Excellent post!! I’m really learning a great deal.

    • It's true but ya can't say it! says:

      Peter, there of course is a very strong link between active homosexuality and pedophilia. Freud knew it, psychologists and psychiatrists knew it up through the 1960s/1970s. The bogus lie in 1973 when the APA “normalized” homosexuality by mafia tactics turned things on their head and made “what’s wrong right and what’s right wrong.”

      Homosexuality is a gender identity disorder. Essentially the man suffers from a masculine inferiority complex, and he tries to “get” masculinity by eroticizing and sexualizing other men. It sometimes offers a temporary fix to “feel good” — what’s called an “aaaah” moment, or “this feels right” (i.e., an affect regulator), but the inferiority feelings always return. It’s akin to a shot of heroin or whiskey — temporary relief from his real suffering, but the underlying problem persists.

      The active homosexual man has a poor relationship with his inner little boy, if you will. There is always a power struggle in homosexuality– it’s no accident that domination fantasies are rampant among homosexual men. He either subconsciously wants his little boy — whom he often hates for allowing himself to be physically, emotionally, and/or sexually abused by his father (homosexual men universally have poor relationships with their own fathers or father figures) — to be dominated (passive participant) or he wants to hurt his own little self himself (active dominator). You can see how oedophilia is a normal corollary to the homosexual condition.

      The way out is to recognize the problem and, through therapy, heal the man’s relationship with his inner little boy. Then, the man loves that boy and doesn’t want to hurt him (active participant) or see him get hurt (passive participant).

      It’s complex but certainly not insurmountable. Kevin Spacey, like many men with homosexual problems, was using teenage boys to numb his own inner little boy pain. It doesn’t work and only hurts more people. It’s beyond tragic that so many modern psychological professionals don’t know how to help these men find healing.

      We must put the truth out there and pray for these suffering men, but we must also protect our society’s little boys and young men. Otherwise, we’ll become like Ancient Rome where young men were commonly used in this manner. You cannot both love someone and “use” him at the same time.

      For more details on the psychological problem of male homosexuality and on how to heal it, Google the work of the late Dr Joseph Nicolosi.

      Our church needs to understand the development of male homosexuality, to understand mainstream society’s lies about it, and to learn how to heal it if we hope to help the Orthodox men who are suffering with this problem! Church leaders and pastors must know how to address it!

      • Peter Ray Millman says:

        Thank you It’s true. I will google the man’s work.

      • And the explanation for why some females are lesbian?

        • George Michalopulos says:

          Pedophilia as well. And/or sexual assault by an older man. That seems to drive some younger women to lesbianism.

          For what it’s worth, as far as society is concerned, lesbianism is far less destructive than homosexuality.

        • It's true but ya can't say it says:

          As with all things feminine, lesbianism is more complex. (Forgive me, a poor attempt at a joke!)

          Lesbianism occurs at a fraction of the percentage of male homosexuality (less than 5-10% of the rate of male homosexuality). Similar to male homosexuality, lesbianism often results from failure of the female child to bond with the mother, or conscious or subconscious rejection by the mother. And we’re talking early development — before 3 or 4 years old is often when the child feels these insults. Lesbianism can also result after trauma – like sexual assault from a man. Fortunately this latter category is more easily healed — similar to healing PTSD.

          Important take-home point is that both male and female homosexuality are developmental problems/injuries that some men and women face, usually through no fault of their own.

          That’s why the “Are they born this way or is it a choice?” is a false dichotomy question, and altogether the wrong question to ask. God certainly doesn’t create men or women to be lesbian or homosexual, and they don’t usually consciously choose it either. They experience same sex attraction as an eroticized means to heal a parental attachment deficiency that often never occurred, or it perhaps partially occurred followed by rejection or abandonment. Acting out sexually gives a temporary high — the shot of cocaine analogy — but it never heals the underlying hurt. That underlying hurt and pain can be healed through therapy and inner child work.

          It’s a travesty that so many psychological professionals refuse or don’t know how to (or don’t want to) help patients heal because of the lies put forth from the gay lobby.

          • M. Stankovich says:

            I strongly suspect you are Trey the Virginian, but regardless, I outright challenge you to support any of this blatant Nicolosian/NARTH deception and outright, unsubstantiated fraud with legitimate research. You are a deceiver who would lay the credibility for your fraud on “psychological professionals” as a cheap parlor trick for your fundamental inability to produce legitimate research.

            On the one hand, no legitimate researcher asks the question, ““Are homosexuals born this way or is it a choice?” for the same reason the theologian would not ascribe the responsibility for genetically determined familial adenomatous polyposis colon cancer to God.

            Important take-home point is that both male and female homosexuality are developmental problems/injuries that some men and women face, usually through no fault of their own.

            I defy you to support this contention with the classic Attachment Theory of John Bowleby – from which you attempt to illogically and foolishly fabricate a “traumatized inner child” – and any modern understanding of the impact of traumatic stress on human beings – let alone children. You speak of ideology and concepts for which the paradigm has radically shifted in the last seven years, and dramatically so, if only because we have been inundated with victims of PTSD from so many years of war.

            If the theories you postulate – this whole “trauma and need for integration and healing of the inner child” – were the core and causation of homosexuality, we would be overwhelmed with an epidemic, worldwide, of homosexuality. Look simply at the divorce rate in the United States and what it implies about an active male/father/model/figure/attachment/role-model in the home; has not the “theory” always been that ineffectual male/father-bonding and emotional/love attachment been the “playground” for male homosexuality? You said the Kevin Spacey model “hurt little inner-boy” pedophile adult using little boys to “numb” their pain? Yet the rate of homosexuality – even as measured by the 2016 National Institutes of Health Special Report of Sexual Minority Youth, which I published on this site – remains constant at 2-4% for the next generation. Your ideas are long outdated, unsupportable, and silly. They do not stand up to the shallowist of scrutiny and are exactly why NARTH and James Nicolosi are so vehemently discredited as the charlatans and liars that they are. You simply cannot hate and despise homosexuality out of existence, and Nicolosi and NARTH gave it their best shot.

            • Michael Bauman says:

              Well, Michael S if it makes a difference as I was reading “it’s true…” I heard your voice in my head saying “prove it” and other assorted umbrages of which you are the undisputed master.

              Thank you for once again citing actual studies. They are important, but even they must be evaluated with Christian discernment. Now to find the energy to attack them. I think I will be better off reading St. John Damascene though.

              The compassion and understanding with which we must address same sex attracted and active homosexuals in our midst is not far away.

              The resource is quite available once we begin to repent of our own disordered sexuality.

              The laxness and acceptance of fornication over the last fifty years has laid the ground work for many other sins.

              God forgive me.

            • Fr. Hans Jacobse says:

              Michael Stankovich, your condemnation of NARTH is spoken with such certitude that a reader might think the case is irretrievably shut. Moreover, the reasoning of your apologetic (reducing homosexual attraction to biological materiality — colon cancer and such) in no way differs from what I hear from Gay INC propaganda (God made me that way!). I’m not saying you are shilling for the gay lobby. I am saying that the certainty you display is not warranted given the changes and the politicization of the counseling establishment we’ve seen year after year.

              Remember John Hopkins pioneering sex-change operations? If someone wanted a sex change, they trotted off to John Hopkins and after a battery of tests and assessments, the counselors dutifully decided that if a patient’s dysphoria was severe enough then “gender reassignment surgery” should take place. A few years ago John Hopkins stopped the practice completely now views gender dysphoria as a kind of mental illness. Now it is reevaluating again.

              SURGICAL SEX: WHY WE STOPPED DOING SEX CHANGE OPERATION

              Johns Hopkins psychiatrist sees hospital come full circle on transgender issues

              The truth is that much of the the counseling establishment is a politicized as the rest of the culture (especially the APA) regarding homosexuality, and what is fashion now can easily fall out of favor tomorrow.

              Meanwhile, men who worked through the therapies you decry as promulgated by “charlatans and liars” report success with overcoming same-sex attraction. Your certainty ought to be provisional given the changes and politicization we’ve seen in the professional counseling establishment and certainly within the earshot of men who testify change is indeed possible.

              • Peter Ray Millman says:

                This holy priest, Father Hans Jacobse, is great. I’ve read many of his writings, and I am definitely a fan. Dear God, please send us more holy priests like Father Hans Jacobse. Outstanding post!!

              • M. Stankovich says:

                First, Fr. Hans, you need a comprehensive assessment of your hearing if you find me in lockstep with Gay, Inc. in regard to NARTH and Nicolosi. Must I go to your site (or similarly re-search this site) and retrieve my comments regarding their demonstrated academic deceit and fraud; the fact that reputable scientific journals refuse to publish their “research” because they refuse access to raw data – a “given” in the scientific world to establish baseline voracity; and their shocking refusal to establish risk-to-benefit ratios when exposing human subjects to experimental treatment protocols (reparative therapies) when they have not done the proper research. I am absolutely and unquestionably certain that these are the practices of unethical deceivers, liars, and charlatans, and I’ve been saying it since 2011, and you know it.

                Secondly, there are frequent theoretical “shifts” in the field of psychology – and you rarely, and I suspect purposely, make a distinction between psychology & psychiatry – but true paradigm shifts in psychiatry are extremely rare. Nevertheless, you casually and flippantly speak as if core concepts – concepts now substantiated and corroborated with the innovations of molecular biology, fMRI and similar innovative technology, and genetic/epigenetic profiling – are mere “whim,” frequently referring to them as “soft science.” No longer. And let me further emphasize this point: you have gotten considerable unearned dismissive power over legitimate, “hard science” research data by a wave of the hand and uttering the word “politicized.” Eat like pigs now because your days are numbered. You cannot politicize scrupulous design and genetic science. And some advice to you: What you say about Johns Hopkins, sexual re-assignment surgery, and Gender Dysphoria Disorder clearly indicates you understand absolutely nothing about this issue. If you recall, Paul R. McHugh, MD, former director of the Johns Hopkins Hospital Sexual Re-Assignment Clinic – the one who actually wrote the protocol and the one who stopped sexual re-assignment surgery because it was a failure – published an extensive series in the Atlantic Monthly. I offered you a summary I had written that I told you I believed thoroughly explained the issues of genetic sexual development disorders; an explanation of the terminology of gender, sex, gender of choice, and so on; transgender and gender dysphoria; and a section on transgender youth. And all within the context of the Holy Scripture and our Orthodox anthropology. You refused to even examine it. As I recall, you link to some innocuous nobody who makes “5 relevant points,” from McHugh’s more than 90 pages. In the mean time, I refined my paper and it is being used in 3 Orthodox jurisdictions for clergy and other discussion and training groups.

                Finally, to your last point, let me conclude by saying this one last time to you, Fr. Hans, and enough of you compulsively issuing me this below the belt cheap shot: I believe in our God “who alone does great wonders” (Ps. 72:18); who conducts “wondrous works: (1 Chron. 16:12); who delivers “works of power” (Matt. 11:20); “wondrous miracles” (Ps. 106:22); and who “works salvation in the midst of the earth” (Ps. 74:12). And for anyone whom our God has delivered from the scourge of homosexuality, by whatever means this has occurred, on bended knees I join you in thanksgiving. Having said this, Fr. Hans, never, ever will I support anyone who chooses to put a patient in the position where they might be harmed. And shame on you – absolute shame – for this Pharisaic attempt to devize a “scenario” where patient care might be “rationally” and reasonably compromised. Shame on you.

                • Peter Ray Millman says:

                  Michael has just written two more crappy, lousy posts that make no sense at all. As Dr. Paul McHugh so cogently articulates we live in a very permissive society. As he states there is no gay gene, and homosexuality is learned behavior. Dr. McHugh also avers that homosexuality is false and erroneous desire.

                  He states that the best data comes from the Framingham Study. Dr. McHugh says,”if you are a man and grow up in a rural environment, you are four times less likely to have homosexual relationships than if you grow up in a metropolitan area. That’s not left handedness. ”
                  He goes on to state that homosexuality is part and parcel of the permissive society we live in. You know,” if it feels good, do it.”

                  Michael Stankovich owes Father Jacobse an apology for slandering him, being abusive, disrespectful, and trotting out the “pharisaic trope.” No, Michael, shame on you once again. You have very unsuccessfully attempted to smear and impugn the reputation of a good and holy priest. I say it again: shame on you Michael Stankovich for your sophistry and calumny. Son, have you no shame at all? Also, after doubling down on his ridiculous assertions, he must self righteously quote scripture, and once again aver that his heresy is “Orthodox anthropology.”

                  Michael suggested that Father Hans eat like a pig now. I would recommend that Michael help himself to a heaping dish of crow. Brother, we get it, you’re a heretical… activist

          • Dear It’s true…. & George,
            So, lesbianism is due to pedophilia, and/or sexual assault by an older man, and/or the failure of the female child to bond with the mother at a very early age (3-4).

            I have personal knowledge of a young woman who is a lesbian. I know the family circumstances well. The child’s grew up in an Orthodox Family. Her Mother was a stay at home Mom & Wife throughout the entirety of this female child’s growing up years. As far as I could observe, spending considerable time with the family, the Mom was patient, kind, and established quite a close relationship early on with her children, including her daughter. Their family was very traditional; at times homeschooled, all children contributed according to their age to the family chores, morning and nightly prayers, limited contact with social media/TV/radio (especially while they were young – under 15 years), etc.

            At no time was this child left with male sitters alone. The children went with them for “family fun” like apple picking, church picnics, family movie night….
            The few times this female daighter would have been left with a “sitter,” would have been with her Grandmother or Godmother. I find it almost impossible to figure out when a sexual assault, perpetrated by a older male, would have taken place. Additionally, the child herself denies any abuse taking place at any time in her past.

            Yet, this is a female who loves her Church, her faith, her priest. She spent 5 years (aged 10-15) praying nightly, without anyone’s knowledge, for God to heal her and make her feel “normal.” Yet, each morning, she woke up the same. She still was attracted to other girls…preteen & teen crushes that confused and upset her. At aged 15 she came to the conclusion that her belief must not be enough, but she knew her parents belief was strong and solid. She prayed for another 2 years that God please correct her hormones, or that she be cured from these feelings towards other females not for her sake, but for her family’s sake and based on her parents belief.

            This child, after 7 1/2 years of torment, finally broke down and told her parents and a few close family friends what was happening. She said she didn’t WANT to feel this way, but still did. The Church’s stand is that homosexuality is wrong so why wouldn’t God release her from this, or why would she have felt this way from the start of “kiddie crushes,” long before she even knew what sex was and long before the age of dating.

            She sobbed (I know, I was there) and had three main concerns
            1. She was going to be forced out of the Orthodox Church as soon as she was found out.
            2. She felt so badly for disappointing her parents and close family/friends. She wanted us to know she was NOT choosing this. Why would she choose to be something that would destroy everything she loved. She didn’t even know anyone else who was gay.
            3. How was she going to live her life without a significant other, for the rest of her life… it felt like a sentence of despair and extreme loneliness.

            So, no pedophilia….no sexual assault……and a close enough relationship with her mother to ask that she get this group together for a talk. This young female adult does not fit your molds or reasoning.

            I am asking earnestly, for monomakhos has some of the harshest commentaries and posters on the subject of homosexuality, what else could have happened or is happening to cause this girl to be attracted to other females instead of males? How bad is it, that our Churches, Priests and laiety deal so poorly with this topic, she is terrified to talk to ANYONE within her parish?

            • George Michalopulos says:

              Saunca, I never said that there is only one etiology for any specific paraphilia. Only that there is a high correlation between child molestation (of whatever sort) and homosexuality/lesbianism. And another paraphilia for that matter (or it’s opposite: frigidity in females and asexuality in males).

              Now I grant you that we should abide by Sir Francis Galton’s maxim that “correlation does not equal causation”. And I grant you that some homoerotically inclined children may make themselves “available” to older predators. I think of Milo Yiannapoulos, who probably was effeminate from day one and whose mien attracted an older predator. But it can’t be disputed that sexual predation of minors isn’t a recruiting tool. And probably the major factor in making a post-pubescent teen homosexual or lesbian.

            • George Michalopulos says:

              Saunca, btw, your friend’s story is powerful. As to how she should behave? Well, I think all of us struggle with feelings of unchastity. I know I do. Maybe we should ask the Lord for help in remaining chaste?

              Even on a secular level, those who channel their sexual urges into non-sexual avenues can unleash creativity. Think of Beethoven or Sir Isaac Newton.

              • How many people do you think are called to be chaste for life? Now exclude monks, nuns, bishops and unmarried priests. It is not just that she “struggles with feelings of unchastity.” That’s so ….immediate. It’s that she struggles with the amount of time that may lay before her, decades upon decades, during which she will be “alone” in the earthly sense. She struggles with what could be the start of a lifetime of depression and loneliness. She struggles with Why she was made this way or made to be this way. Maintaining chastity (or keeping her sexual urges “in check” is so low on the list of her worries right now it’s almost laughable since it’s at the top of most every other 18-22 yr old’s mind.

                Also- for the record, she has not been “preyed” upon by any older lesbian person. None of us (her friends and parents), including her, even know anyone else that is lesbian!

                So back to the questions:
                -What else could have caused this? Suggestions that haven’t already been discounted in this particular case would be helpful.
                -Why do you think she is terrified to go to her Church, priest or the laiety for help and support?
                ***I suppose it is telling that not one Orthodox Priest (and I know they’re here) bothered to reach out with comments, suggestions, or an offer to support her or speak with her privately. Where are they? I posted several weeks ago.

                • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

                  She will have to reach out to her priest or a priest that can talk to her about this. The priest can help, but your friend will have to reach out to them privately for this so that proper pastoral care can be given to her.

                  Also, this is essencially about what she truly values. Christ or her passions. At such a young age her passions, and not Christ, are paramount. This is why she has to work through this privately and pastorally with a priest.

                  She should not be nor, do I believe anyone will kick her out of the Church. She is a part of our family and we need and must love her and support her. Not her behavior, but love and support her.

                  She needs to stay in church and figure things out like the rest of us and we, as the chief of sinners, should not be condemning her, nut helping her with her struggles. None of us are perfect, just trying to work out our salvation with Much fear and trembling following the one who has the words of life and who is life.

                • Solitary Priest says:

                  I’m a priest. If George wants to put me in touch with you, that’s fine.
                  But I offer no guarantees. I am no expert, but I tend towards the belief that same sex attractions are a cruel demonic disorder. It may be precisely because your niece came from a devout family that the evil one has chosen this form of attack.
                  I am chaste out of necessity because I’m a widower. I don’t claim to be virtuous nor do I have all the answers. God, however, is merciful.

                  • Joseph Lipper says:

                    Solitary Priest,

                    Do you also believe that many opposite-sex attractions are also the result of a cruel demonic disorder?

                    • Solitary Priest says:

                      Yes. I speak from personal experience. That’s why I wouldn’t yell at the young lady in question. Nor would I want to throw her or anybody else out of the church.
                      The phrase ” cruel demonic disorder” I quoted from one of the fathers of St. Gregory Palamas on the west coast, possibly the retired archbishop himself.
                      I’m sorry if my words offend. You see, this is why so many of us don’t come forward. You are in a no win situation no matter what. If you reiterate the church’s teaching, you are called a bigot, a homophobe, that you have no love.
                      If on the other hand, you call for love and compassion, you are promptly labelled a beta male by certain zealots here.

                  • This is probably one of our worst nightmares….do Priests really not understand how damaged, scared, and lonely these kids are? Do they not understand that these young adults already feel like God has left them to deal with this on their own? Do you know the suicide rates of young Christian teens who feel that they are gay and just can’t imagine living with that their whole life.

                    And you would tell such a teen that they have a “demonic condition?” Oh, my Lord. My good God…… and everyone telling us to get her to her Parish Priest for pastoral care, when we have a pretty good idea that this may be kind of how that meeting goes as well.

                    I am sorry to hear you are a widower. And, I do thank you for being the ONLY priest to reach out to us. I wish there was a more guidance available regarding the way that Orthodox priests should care for and counsel these young men and woman.

            • Peter Ray Millman says:

              Saunca, If I may, there is only one way to treat someone like you describe. Love, accept, and cherish her exactly the way she is. The absolute last thing she needs is any condemnation by holier than thous. I pray that God may bless her and her wonderful mom. Yes, love and accept her unconditionally.

              By the way, on a personal level, I couldn’t care less what a person does in the privacy of their own bedrooms.

              • Thank you for your reply. I do love her and her family unconditionally. This has devestates them. I’m just trying to help.

            • Michael Bauman says:

              saunca, thanks for telling us your story. The first place to start is recognizing that all most everyone struggles with sinfulness of some sort related to sex. None of us are “normal”.

              As I have said repeatedly the problem does not lie with just homosexuality alone.

              As George suggests it is a chastity problem. The first step for me was realizing that I am not normal. Some have suggested that opposite sex unchastity is qualitatively different than same sex unchastity. Not true. Sexual disorders are difficult precisely because they are in some fashion “in the flesh”. Even confessing such sins is tricky because it can activate the hormonal/enzyme and neural pathways of sex.

              The lonliness is a big hurdle. Human companionship alone will not assuage that. We need to delve more deeply into the experience of communion with a personal God and His saints with us. Not just in theory.

              Some if not most besetting sins are never “cured”.
              Thorns in the flesh can be a goad to patience and struggle. Such struggles needs to be supported by the Church and they are even when people do not.

              “Normalizing” same sex sexuality does great harm just as normalizing fornication in general has done great harm.

              Your friend is a strong person. If anyone shuns her or condemns her they are much worse.

              Chastity is not just about sex or even solely about abstaining. It is about purity in all things and about working to acquire virtue of loving the Creator more than the created thing in all aspects of our lives. Almsgiving with a merciful heart (not just money BTW). Fasting. When I ignore the fasting discipline my struggle with sexual immorality becomes more difficult. Pray for others who are struggling. Forgive readily. Fear not (really hard).

              The Church does not need to change. The parish does not need to change. The change necessary is in me.

              Have you read the book “Washed, But Waiting”. If not I highly recommend it.

              She will meet judgment and condemnation unfortunately. That can also he a source of strength according to the beatitudes.

              Difficult. It is a lonly path, but still she is not alone.

              May God be with all of you, may His Face shine upon you to guide you and give you strength.

              For what it is worth you will be in my prayers.

              Lord have mercy.

              • Michael, thank you for your response and especially for your prayers. The “Fear not” truly is almost impossible. We fear for her safety, we fear for her further…. we fear that when she finally does get up the nerve to confide in her priest, or any Orthodox priest, they will crush her with their words. For instance, an anonymous priest posted here that it was their belief that homosexuality is a “cruel demonic disorder.” I am truly terrified as to what that type of response would mentally and spiritually do to her right now. She’s already scared, lonely and confused. Her continued prayers seem to go unanswered.
                There has got to be some kind of consensus as to how Orthodox priests should handle (with great care) persons in this position. I disagree strongly that an encouraging, caring course of pastoral care would be to tell her that she is being singled out by a demonic curse?!

            • Saunca,

              Many prayers for you, this young woman, and for her family.

              An “internet diagnosis” is impossible, so, online, no one will ever discover the attachment loss that this young woman is trying to heal – to repair – through her lesbian acting out.

              But virtually all of these cases stem from an attachment loss – and this can be something the child suffered as an infant, where he or she did not bond effectively (with the mother, in the case of lesbianism). Maybe the mother was tired and distracted? In a violent and dysfunctional household, maybe the mother feared for her safety and wasn’t able to “give her all” to the child? Lots of theoretical possibilities.

              Different children have different temperaments, so different children exposed to the same environment may have different emotional development and different outcomes. That’s why it’s so crucial for parents to be attuned to their children and to learn the emotional needs of each child.

              Being attuned to a child’s emotional needs is tough, since (in America at least), we don’t value emotional health or emotional intelligence, and to be emotionally attuned to one’s child, one has to be emotionally healthy and aware him/herself.

              Priests’ kids are certainly not immune either. An Orthodox priest’s daughter was among the hundreds who went to Jonestown in Guyana in the late 1970s and literally drank the kool-aid to commit mass suicide with the group.

              Your friend’s daughter, if she’s interested to find out further as to why she has lesbian desires, should seek out a therapist who is trained in childhood trauma and childhood developmental disorders, to look into where there are holes in her emotional development that she’s trying to fill with lesbianism. And the degree of the emotional void relates to how big the struggle with SSA is.

              Importantly, it has nothing to do with “how great the parents are/were.” It has to do with the child’s perception. A mom or dad can “do everything right” from their perspective, but if they are emotionally unavailable per what the child needs, that may be the root of the problem.

              The therapist must also not be hostile to patients who want to understand why they have SSA and to help patients heal from that if they want. Sadly, given today’s climate, too many therapists think it’s taboo to wonder why a person suffers from SSA and think it’s wrong to try to help the patient heal, even if he/she wants to.

              Per our culture, it’s ok to choose to be gay, but it’s not ok to choose to try to not be gay — that’s cultural insanity.

              If only the APA would do research in to asking why people may have SSA. Yet, again, mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists think it’s rude to investigate this issue. Even though there’s no evidence whatsoever that SSA is caused by a “gay gene.”

              You may want to read the book “Shame and Attachment Loss” by Dr Joseph Nicolosi which discusses the attachment loss issues in SSA patients in detail.

              Many prayers for you, your friend’s daughter, and her family.
              Christ is always with us during our sufferings!

              • Dear “It’s true says…,”
                I appreciate you taking the time to try to write something helpful. However, you just regurgitated the cause of lesbianism from the earlier post.

                “Virtually all of these cases stem from an attachment loss.” Source? Citation?

                I don’t know what to do but repeat myself and re-ask my questions.
                – this child, as a baby, bonded well with her parents. She had a loving extended Orthodox family and Church.
                – She was the first child. Meaning her mother was not distracted with other small siblings.
                – The Mom had help from the child’s Baba/Grandma and Godmother pretty consistently for the first 4-6 weeks after birth.
                – The parents of this household weren’t “distracted” and it was never a violent home. Her parents have been married for more than 2 decades.
                – They provided not just basic needs, but further spent quality time together, attended Church, & regularly traveled to develop their child’s close bond with extended family. Each parent, Mom & Dad, was emotionally tied to their child(ren). Her Mom, in particular, was emotionally available and loving (as many Mom’s are more natural in this area). Her Father was the breadwinner in the family and provided economic stability and love. Do you truly think that a young adult, barely out of her teens, would confide in her parents regarding this situation if there wasn’t a strong and loving bond already in place?

                So I ask again:
                What else could be the reason(s) that this child is gay?
                What does it say about our Churches, priests and laiety that she has been to afraid to confide in any of them?

            • The attraction is invalid.

              If we go out into the wilderness and we are alone; it is not a matter of choosing when another human encounters us to find companionship.

              The greatest commonality I find is that humans believe they have a choice when in fact they ought to lead their lives and avoid the temptation of want or being wanted.

              After time in the wilderness; the lust of wanting girls might become less important. Of course time in the wilderness isn’t always literal.

              • So, the 7 years of prayer and then 2 more of not acting on her feelings,(during a time when most teens and young adults try courting/datin… finding a relationship that is more than friendship) was not hypothetically “wilderness enough?” She has spent that time praying, fasting, and living chastely, finally sharing the burden with a few close family and friends. She is lonely. She is scared. What kind of wilderness would you propose? And, who should she turn to in her Orthodox Parish with absolute certainty that she won’t be yelled at, demonized, or thrown out of the Church?

                • George Michalopulos says:

                  Saunca, I will say that human sexuality is rather plastic. Your friend, who could have been courting boys during that time may have deprived herself of valuable adolescent memories (noticed, I said “courting” not being groped in the back seat of a car trying to get to third base). I’m not going to say she would have been “cured” of her lesbian feelings but she might have had an enjoyable adolescence.

                  History is full of same-sex attracted individuals who settled down, got married and had children. I dare say that at the end of their lives, none of them would have regretted the decisions they made, wishing they could have given up marriage and family and trading it instead for multitudinous, meaningless casual hook-ups. That’s what the Church means when it decries the “passions”.

                  Anecdotally, this seems to be especially true of lesbians who strive mightily to get pregnant (through IVF or sperm donors) and have offspring. The maternal drive is not unnatural and indeed overpowering.

                  • She did try “dating.” Of course, atcthe time, none of knew why each of these dates didn’t continue on into something more. She was pursued by 3 upstanding, respectable gentleman (1 each year from 10th to 12th grade). She got to know them, her family did, and she dated each ONCE. Afterwards she said that they just didn’t click “like that.” They were just friends, felt like brothers to her. She’s remained close friends with two of the young men, and went to Senior Prom with one of them…as friends.

                    As far as the other points you make, I am wondering what bubble you are living in. Plenty of men have left their wives and families after the “charade” of playing heterosexual just became to much. So I disagree with your opinion that no homosexuals regret their heterosexual marriage.
                    The last thing I would want this young woman to do is pretend her way into a heterosexual marriage, only to hurt everyone involved years later when she found that despite all her efforts, she still was not attracted to her husband.

                    One last thing, you make the assumption that if a “gay” person were to leave a heterosexual marriage, it would be for a life of meaningless casual hookups. Despite my own opinion that heterosexual marriage IS what we were made for, even I realize that many homosexuals are in relationships that have lasted longer than heterosexual marriages these days…not multiple casual hook-ups.

                    Back to the question at hand: How do you think Orthodox Churches, Priests and laiety should receive a person such as this young lady?
                    Hopefully, you have a better idea than telling her she is the target of a cruel demonic condition.

                    • George Michalopulos says:

                      Saunca, I don’t “live in a bubble”. I’ll see your “charade” and raise it a notch: how about the “charade” of monogamy? That is men who leave their wives because they want something on the side? Most cultures on earth are polygynous, i.e. they accept the fact that men (whether heterosexual or homosexual) have an intense desire to copulate with as many people as possible.

                      I know this is unsettling. Indeed, I’m rather intrigued how many women who come to the defense of sodomites in no uncertain terms but will get all pearl-clutchy when it comes to the natural desire of men to by polygamous. Why is this?

                      Now, before anybody goes off and blames me for going all Hugh Hefner –stow it. He was a great sinner. Polygamy is a sin. Period. Full stop. But if I, like every other heterosexual man has lusted after another woman, can recognize my sinfulness, then why can’t a priest call out a homosexual or a lesbian for their own proclivities? Is it “because they can’t help it”? Well, welcome to the club. If straight men could “help it” there’d be no pre-marital sex, prostitution, pornography, divorce and so on.

            • Saunca, I understand those concerns, and hope and pray she finds a truly compassionate spiritual father in the church. Maybe she can look up Eve Tushnet, a celibate lesbian Catholic writer, who has a lot to say on these matters.

              • Matt, I truly appreciate your hopes and prayers, as they are ours as well. I will recommend the writer to her. At least it’s something she can actually do and might help.

      • M. Stankovich says:

        Church leaders & pastors must know how to address the issues of pedophiles and sex offenders from verified experts and from confirmed research from reliable research sources. What is being offered here is scurrilous, internet gleaned trash, the worst being the reference to James Nicolosi and the charlatans and scammers from NARTH who are proven and demonstrated liars and deceivers.

        In the current literature, their are three authors in the area of of the study of pedophilia and child sexual predation who are acknowledged experts: Psychologist Michael C. Seto (see his Pedophilia and Sexual Offending Against Children: Theory, Assessment, and Intervention), Psychologist David Finklehofer (Director of the Family Violence Research Program, University of New Hampshire, Durham, NH – whom I have quoted here on numerous occasions), and Psychiatrist Paul Federoff (Dir. of the Sexual Behaviors Clinic at the Royal Ottawa Mental Health Centre and Associate Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Ottawa). These are mainstream, evidence-based clinicians & teachers. They propose a

        prevailing theory in the male-typical predisposition toward this sexual behaviour [pedophilia] and physical aggression consisting of social skills deficits and self-regulation problems [which] impede the development of relationships with peers, which can then lead the individual to turn to children as a substitute. An integration of biological vulnerabilities (including genetic) reflect perturbations in male-typical predispositions toward sexual behaviour and sexual arousal to children (pedophilia); having more affinity for children than for adults (emotional congruence); and feeling unable to meet one’s emotional and sexual needs in relationships with adults (blockage).

        Further – and I can tell you this from my own clinical experience of nearly 500 assessments of convicted felony child sexual predators – they point out that not all “pedophiles” move on to actually having any physical contact with a child. Nevertheless,

        Any fantasies about sex with children are reinforced by masturbation to orgasm and increase the individual’s motivation to have sexual contact with a child. Combined with access to a potential victim and disinhibition, these predispositions can result in sexual offenses against a child. The subsequent reinforcement (sexual pleasure, sense of control, reduction of negative mood) increases the likelihood of repeating the behavior.

        And the difference between a “passion” and a crime rely upon

        four conditions for a sexual offense against a child to occur: (a) motivation to commit the sexual offense; (b) overcoming internal inhibitions, such as fear of arrest; (c) overcoming external inhibitions, such as the presence of other adults; and (d) overcoming the resistance of the child.

        I would note that these authors explored the issues of overall “emotional dysregulation” (the inability to regulate & control one’s feelings, particularly anger, disappointment, rejection, overall “self-esteem,” etc.), parental attachment (i.e. parental attachment is how appropriately one “connected” emotionally to one’s parents, cf. John Bowleby), personality disorders generally, “temperament,” and all of these other pointless Freudian/Neo-Freudian theories long ago dismissed & discarded (for which we wouldn’t otherwise give two shits about), and they either add nor detract from the original theory. I would also note that there is significant investigation into co-morbid psychiatric conditions (i.e. mood disorders, psychotic disorders, and so on) and the only diagnosis of interest here is chemical dependency/substance use disorders, which would seem fairly obvious.

        But I note most prominently that there is no significant correlation with homosexuality whatsoever, their only comment being, “for heuristic value, research on the biological correlates of homosexuality can provide us with some direction regarding the study of pedophilia because factors that influence sexual interests with regard to the gender of a person might also influence sexual interests with regard to the age of a person, and on the fraternal birth order effect and other genetic processes, homosexuality could also contribute to the understanding of the development of pedophilia.” What are they saying? Homosexuality is not a causative for pedophilia. Period. Pedophiles have been sexually abused more often than the general population, and some studies suggest this is also true of homosexuals & lesbians. Does this means more homosexuals/lesbians are pedophiles? NO. There is no evidence to support that conclusion. If males children who were sexually abused by anal penetration as children became homosexual – by that single factor alone – we would be inundate, in fact overwhelmed by male homosexuals. You cannot imagine the number of men who finally report being sexually abused as a child in substance abuse treatment. It is truly astonishing. And equally astonishing are the number of years they have been ashamed and terrified of people thinking they were “gay!”

        Finally, you have all seemingly forgotten the real facts about the sexual abuse of children and the characteristics of child sexual predators, and that comes from Dr. David Finklehofer and the University of New Hampshire. This is the fourth time I am offering this study because it is the single best study, factually and by design, that you will find. What he found was that the lifetime experience of 17-year-old girls for sexual abuse or assault was an astonishing 26.6%, and for boys 5.1%; for girls 15-years old 16.8%, and boys 4.3%. And as I read this study, the worst aspect was that the majority of abuse for girls occurred from contact with a peer (known, but not necessarily in a relationship) 15.4%, and boys 3.2%, not an adult. You write about this issue of “gay predation” as if it were epidemic and – God help us – “contagious” to creating more homosexuals. It is ignorant, contrived, and does nothing but distract from the horrific fact that 26% of all 17-year old American adolescent girls have already been sexually abused or assaulted.

        Overall, these cases of pedophilic predation are horrific, inexcusable, shameful, and cry out to the very angels in heaven for their power to destroy lives. I have said so many times on this site that I have worked on both sides of this issues, providing treatment to children and families – victims as young as five-years old – and assessing and attempting to motivate sexual predators to do the right thing and seek treatment upon leaving prison. And for as many times as I have presented this information, I am abhorred to read this casual non-chalance regarding this filth Milo Yiannopoulos; this cheap and immediate connection of homosexuality & pedophilia with no credible evidence other than, “It sounds good to me”; and the lack of interest to even question overblown bullshit like “It’s true but ya can’t say it!” – and you shouldn’t have said it – If I had mentioned Freud, the trash would never have ended. Freud. Madonna Mia! What’s next? Kinsey?

        • It's true but ya can't say it says:

          Dr Stankovich,

          Feel free to call the late Dr Joseph Nicolosi and his colleagues “charlatans and scammers,” but I’m fairly certain that the thousands of men and women who are able to live God-centered lives, being the men and women whom He designed them to be and not slaves to their disordered homosexual urges, would vociferously disagree with you.

          Heck, if they’d listened to you, these thousands of healed and healing men & women would still be living actively homosexual lifestyles, unfulfilled and at a dead end. That’s what you want?

          And you must understand, as a self-admitted fan of “verified research from reliable sources,” that what the APA puts out as verified research and what it considers as reliable sources are often pure hogwash.

          Where was the science that supported “normalizing” homosexuality in 1973? None exists. The APA is a tool of and is afraid of the gay mafia – always has been. Through extortion tactics, the gay mafia effected the 1973 APA’s capitulation.

          As the gay mafia has always said, they need to conquer 3 cultural institutions to effect societal change to gain “normal” status — the law (done, homosexuality ain’t illegal), medicine (done, thanks to the impotent and capitulating APA in 1973), and religion (almost done, except for the Orthodox and the traditionalist Catholics and protestants).

          That’s why we’re always in their crosshairs — we’re the last thing left for them to try to conquer.

          • M. Stankovich says:

            Your response to me is shameful. You’re “fairly certain” of nothing but what those liars and deceivers told the public & media about their “success rates” in re-orienting homosexuals in becoming heterosexuals. Not only did they insist that “more than 33% of patients who came to treatment had successfully re-oriented,” they also asserted the next to impossible criterion of “re-oriented sexual fantasy orientation” (i.e. sexual behaviour researchers found it a much more reliable question in determining a given patient’s sexual orientation by asking, “When you masturbate, what gender do fantasize about?” Consistently, independent corroboration could never find more that 3% re-orientation. You are wildly and unjustifiably guessing. It is also direct testimony to what I have insisted since 2011, and what I realized in 2003: Nicolosi and NARTH have only two verifiable accomplishments: first, establishing a systematic network of academic fabrication, fraud, and deceit that, as recently as a month ago, had them thrown out of a trial in the 9th Circuit of the Federal District Court of Appeals for misrepresentation, and had previously cost them their federal 501(c)(3) tax exemption status as an established pattern of operation. They don’t need the “crosshairs” of any gay mafia, they are established criminals in their own right. And second, they have amassed a list of individuals who were not “able to live God-centered lives, being the men and women whom He designed them to be and not slaves to their disordered homosexual urges,” because they were unable to re-orient themselves to heterosexuality, and suffered grave psychological consequences and traumatization at the hands of their “therapists,” and then publicly blamed and humiliated for their own failure. And this is a fundamental – in fact foundational question at the heart of this matter.

            Heck, if they’d listened to you, these thousands of healed and healing men & women would still be living actively homosexual lifestyles, unfulfilled and at a dead end. That’s what you want?

            I have received this and similar “feedback,” and I will answer this exactly as I have always answered it: no one, including me, knows exactly why anyone becomes homosexual. No one. Show me the definitive cause of homosexuality and I will show you the research that refutes it. Nicolosi/NARTH continues to suggest they knew/ know why people become homosexual. They are deceivers, liars, and charlatans, and it takes very little to prove it. On the other hand, we know quite a bit about what does not cause homosexuality, and I do my part because people will pretty much believe anything with no evidence whatsoever. This, then begs your idiot question:

            Where was the science that supported “normalizing” homosexuality in 1973? None exists. The APA is a tool of and is afraid of the gay mafia – always has been. Through extortion tactics, the gay mafia effected the 1973 APA’s capitulation.

            The question was not whether there was science to support “normalizing” homosexuality. The question was whether the science supported homosexuality as a mental disorder – did it consistently impair and/or impede day-to-day functioning such as does schizophrenia or major depression, for example? The answer seems fairly clear that it does not, so they chose to remove it. Was it extremely controversial for 1973-4? Obviously, but the members of the committee that voted to remove were respected physicians – men and women – who acted with integrity, including a member of that committee who nearly 20-years later was my supervisor and a Director at the NYS Psychiatric Institute at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital in Manhattan. Your “facts” are skewed and formed by creeps, deceivers, and charlatans, and you are perpetuating a story of a “gay mafia” that influenced no one.

            • Uh, what?

              I know two men have been healed through these methods — I know of their actively gay lifestyle beforehand, and of their heterosexual stable, married lives (with children!, glory to God!) now. And through them, I know of many more. The healing stories are heartwarming. Sadly, per mainstream news these stories must not be heard.

              But these men’s lives are testimony that these healing methods can work.

              I’m glad that you brought up shame though, since shame is at the root of most SSA problems. Delve into the man or woman’s shame and attachment loss, and you will often find the void that they are subconsciously trying to fill with SSA. Like alcohol or any other addiction, though, homosexual acting out will never fill this void.

              There are many parallels between homosexuality and other addictions. Most of the time these addictions all are trying to numb emotional hurts and pain that we must, but as yet are unable to, deal with. Many think that active homosexuality itself is a form of addiction (I happen to agree).

              But I’m done communicating with you about this topic, Michael, since you are not interested in a dialogue but rather in shaming me until I see that you “have the true light.” You even said as much in your first sentence, that my post was “shameful!” Oh, the humanity….

              I pray for you, brother, but I won’t communicate any further with you about this topic.

              • M. Stankovich says:

                You are proposing that it is reasonable, prudent, justifiable, and apparently well-pleasing and even righteous in the eyes of God Himself to recommend and promote “healing methods” that “worked” for two specific homosexual individuals of whom you are aware, and then you guess and conjecture “many more.” I will not even quibble over your previous statement suggesting “thousands.” But for the sake of argument, let’s settle on 100 homosexual men and use your criteria of “heterosexual stable, married lives (with children!, glory to God!) now” as the measurement of “healing.” I said previously that it is an internationally agreed ethical standard that we utilize no form of “healing method” for which we have not established a moral and ethical “benefit-to-harm” ratio in clinical trials that guarantees patient safety; if a “healing method” shows itself to be more harmful than helpful, we stop. I have said that reparative therapy for homosexuality as practiced by James Nicolosi and NARTH has resulted in documented harm – sustained periods of refractory major depression, severe depression with psychotic symptoms, anxiety disorders, increased suicide attempts and completed suicides. So let’s take our 100 subjects, and I ask you: would you continue to recommend this “healing method” if the outcome was 75/25 for success, if 25 did not find it helpful and dropped out? What if I said 75/15 drop-out/6 with major, debilitating depression/4 with generalized anxiety? 85/5 drop-out/3 major depression/2 completed suicide? Actually, how many cases of debilitating mental illness would be acceptable. How many completed suicides before we say this method is “unsafe?” And the reality is that you are completely glossing over my previous comment: there were never thousands of patients that were treated by James Nicolosi and NARTH. Never. And no independent body has been able to corroborate “success” as you describe it beyond 3% of the patients he did treat. And because they hide longitudinal data, who knows if these individuals remain “heterosexual” today. How many tragic outcomes should we allow or consider “morally acceptable” in order for you to reasonably & prudently celebrate two men and recommend this “healing method” as safe and helpful?

                I resent your attempt to suggest I demean or reject the deliverance from homosexuality from any means our God chooses to accomplish this task. I rejoice. If you tell me our God delivered you from homosexuality by a diet of Libby’s Canned Half Cling Peaches in Heavy Syrup, I celebrate your victory. But the moment you begin preaching the cause of homosexuality is a Libby’s Peaches deficiency, I will challenge you. You are shameful for attempting to sell “anything is better than nothing” as hope, and dogging me when, pal, more often than not, people like me are left to mop up after you have moved on to the next “I changed, why can’t you? I’ll keep you faggots in my prayers” thread you create. I refuse to allow you to preach lies & deceit unchallenged.

                • Thank you for continuing to speak truthfully on this subject even though it inevitably brings you under attack each time. I wish you DID know what caused homosexuality. There is a pretty desperate Orthodox family that would surely wish to know as well.

    • M. Stankovich says:

      So, Counselor Papoutsis, how far would you let me go: “Well, your Honour, I don’t have any real evidence – something we can label – but I have a strong “sense” of the situation here…” Or how about, “No, your Honour, I don’t have any real evidence, and I understand my opinion contradicts the research literature, but I’m asking for some leeway here because I strongly believe this…” Or just maybe, “No, your Honour, I don’t have any real evidence, not according to the standards of the court, but I have some information I found on the internet that I believe speaks to the issue. Are these legitimate research sources? Well, your Honour, they seem to be credible, but you know how the media can… No, your Honour, I am not familiar with their professional credentials or their standing within the professional community…”

      I believe, Peter, you would be on your feet shouting objections at my every attempt to foist anything but the most reserved, staid, respected, and indisputable sources of data in your setting whose standards are even lower than mine. Simply because the behaviour is repugnant and despicable to you does not mean you are not bound by the identical moral & ethical standard to seek the highest ground before making a decision. You are obligated.

      • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

        I hear you Michael, but not doing any of this. Kevin Spacey is. Corey Feldman is. Elijah Wood is, etc.

        Yes, I admit that I do not have the official studies and research, but I don’t need to have it. These poor souls are doing it to themselves, and their sins are being exposed by the day every day by their own actions and the testimony of others. All I commented on how many gay men are assaulting young boys in Hollywood, the Roman Catholic Church and the Media. Heck also in our church. So i’m not in Court, just out in the world, and I’m commenting on what I see in abundance. That’s all.

        As for the pastoral angle I agree with you it should stay private with the person’s spiritual father. I want them to stay in the Church and be helped and loved by us. However, predators need to be exposed and our young protected.

        Peter A Papoutsis

  3. Peter A. Papoutsis says:

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/corinne-weaver/2017/11/02/lgbt-publication-knew-spaceyrapp-story-refused-report-it

    Keeps getting better and better. This is what the movement of the Holy Spirit looks like.

    Peter A Papoutsis

  4. Peter Ray Millman says:

    Oh, no! This article is tailor made for Mr. I’m Better Than You And Don’t You Forget It to pontificate on ad nauseum. Blah, blah, blah!

    • John Pappas says:

      More prog/lib moralzing. Hollywood and the Dem’s moralized to us decades and now it is clear the moralizing was a smoke screen for their corruption.

      • Peter Ray Millman says:

        John,

        Let’s not forget former Republican Speaker of the House of Representatives Dennis Hastert, the highest ranking US politician to serve a prison sentence. He admitted at his sentencing hearing that he had sexually molested four boys when he was a school teacher and their wrestling coach. I remember how I prayed that it wasn’t true, but, alas, it was all too true.

        • John Pappas says:

          Yes, another cuck with ties to the prog/libs. Got to get them out of hiding. The coming purge (watch the progs eat each other) will spill over into cucks hiding behind the virtue smokescreen.

          • Anonymous says:

            Oh good heavens man. He was a conservative. Stop suggesting otherwise to satisfy your surreality.

            • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

              He was an establishment Republican. Sorry to inform you of that fact. that means cuck not conservative. So you stop suggesting otherwise to satisfy your surreality.

        • And we should not forget the current scandal of Republic conservative Senate candidate Roy Moore, who has been accused of initiating a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old. There are bad dudes all around, for sure, at all levels of governance.

  5. Oh, the humanity, the humanity! Where will it all end?!

    Ever so slowly it will emerge, in fits and starts, that feminist secular humanism is the culprit and that the only solution is to disempower women in order to re-empower men. Power is zero sum. There is no other solution. The mission is to restore a Militant Christian Patriarchy.

  6. Joseph Lipper says:

    It seems there are numerous instances of men who are married to women, who have families, and who don’t identify themselves as homosexual at all, who might even adamantly deny that they engage in homosexuality, but who are also sexually abusing their own sons. Was this not the case with Kevin Spacey’s dad?

    So, in this case you have a man who is struggling to live an acceptable “heterosexual” married lifestyle, but the pretense of “heterosexuality” is really just a front that feeds his pederasty.

    • George Michalopulos says:

      Joseph, I’m sure there are heterosexuals who are married and likewise “struggling” with their passions. Men especially are not given a pass to go outside their marital bed —especially not to molest or assault juveniles–just because their wives are not as accommodating as they’d like.

      • Joseph Lipper says:

        Sure, but should a man who is inclined to pederasty be married to a woman and have children? I would say the answer is no. One might say they have realized some level of “heterosexual potential” by being married with children, but if their wife and family exists for them to indulge in their passion of sexually abusing their own sons, then it’s just wrong. It’s like an alcoholic getting a job at the liquor store.

    • M. Stankovich says:

      You will pardon me for finding this a bit amusing – in a purely retrospective, not in a mocking way. I was a psychiatry resident in NYC at the height of the initial AIDS epidemic of the early to mid-1990’s and it was a terrific epidemiological mystery and dilemma attempting to figure out which men (e.g. race, ethnicity, gay/straight/bisexual, etc.) had HIV/AIDS and how they had contracted it. The data collection questionnaires from the Centers for Disease Control, at least for me, were off the hook! Nevertheless, we would have men presenting for treatment, full-blown AIDS, denying “homosexuality.” Quite often, it took a combination of respect for the intense shame an individual was feeling (and understand the oversimplification of distinction between guilt, which is “remorse,” and shame which is burning the bridges back!) and creativity in asking questions. For example, a frequent question I found myself asking married men was, “You mentioned you occasionally were out drinking with your friends and went to strip clubs or prostitutes. Did you ever allow a sex worker to put her fingers, or anything else, in your butt?” Bingo. “Is there any chance that sex worker or prostitute could have been a man dressed up like a woman, but you were too drunk/high to know?” Bingo. It was a mistake. “And in the last year, would you say that mistake has happened 1-5 times, or more than 5 times?” More than 5 times. Bingo. “I’m sure your wife does complain that you drink too much sometimes…” He typically had been married 5-10 years, has children, and his wife was now HIV-infected.

      Second scenario I encountered was state prison. Inmates always told me that, at least in CA, affiliating with a gang on some level, was unavoidable. You either petitioned for what is referred to as “sensitive needs” (e.g. claim mental health problems, gang drop-outs, etc.), or you need “protection.” You can be protected from forced sex by other “commitments.” Of interest, however, are the openly sexual relationships that are, for all intents and purposes, “spousal.” Obviously, there are individuals who come into prison in various stages of transgender, and homosexual men who appear & act effeminate, and have criminal histories replete with histories of sex work & prostitution. Enough said. Obviously, sexual relationships are forbidden in prison, but gangs afford many things, including privacy second to none. In the context of the assessments I conducted over a period of ten years, I never once had the “husband” in one these situations identify himself as homosexual, and the research likewise corroborates my observation. In my experience, they generally report a marital or female significant-other relationship on the outside, and that wife and/or female significant-other partner is highly likely to actively be visiting the prison (the research indicates that the majority of respondents said on a survey that the visitation of a female significant-other to the prison caused a conflict in the relationship with their “in-house” partner in the last 30-days). Most importantly, the research indicates that the overwhelming majority of these in-prison “husbands” do not have sex with men outside of prison.

      Finally, I believe you are not appreciating the fundamental relationship between the power of passions and the power of the human mind. They both possess the ability to underestimate the capability of the other, and in this fallen world they seem rarely to learn from past mistakes. Mr. Lipper poses the analogy, “It’s like an alcoholic getting a job at the liquor store.” I would ask Mr. Lipper to consider how many times he believes human beings make decisions made in the sincerest of hope: based on a new understanding; based on a new motivation; based on a new-felt strength; based on a determination to finally prove to [my parent, spouse, children, employer, MYSELF] that… only to eventually experience a similarly poor outcome. Why? Because we are arrogant, we are proud, we are disobedient, we are angry, we are ashamed, we refuse to submit and repent. In many cases, the issue is literally, “hope against hope that the truth is not me,” forgetting that, in fact, “you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” (Jn. 8:32)

      • Joseph Lipper says:

        M. Stankovich,

        Thank you for sharing these very important stories from your own experience. Yes, I suspect that many people who suffer from same-sex attraction may want to believe at some point in their lives that they can be “cured”, meaning that they can lead a “normal heterosexual” lifestyle and then be a “normal and accepted part of society and their Church”, as if being heterosexual somehow really makes us normal and acceptable.

        As you mention, this pressure to be “cured” probably often creates some system of denial that will eventually blow up and hurt people. I use Kevin Spacey’s dad as an example of this. There are many other such similar stories, and as you have encountered.

        Why is it wrong to accept that most babies are foreordained from birth to grow up to have a heterosexual predisposition, while some babies will also grow up foreordained from birth to have a homosexual predisposition? That’s just the fallen world we live in. When Jesus encountered the man blind from birth, His disciples wondered if the man’s blindness was because of his sins or because of his parents. Christ said, “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” Whether we eventually have a heterosexual predisposition or a homosexual predisposition, both of these predispositions might be viewed as a type of spiritual “blindness” that we receive foreordained from birth. It may not be because of our sins or because of our parent’s sins that we receive this, but rather “that the works of God should be made manifest”.

        • Joseph, You are brilliant! “that the works of God should be made manifest”. I never understood why or what makes one gay, nor ever cared to comment on the subject matter. Your post spoke to me, like lightening for some reason, even though it all seems so simple, and we should have understood this all along. For this, homosexuality, all other sins, illnesses and spiritual blindness that God “Allows”, is for us, “that the works of God should be made manifest.” I will just say I thank God, that homosexuality would not be my cross to bear. This is why I never gave M. Stankovich a hard time, towards his compassion, for our gay brothers and sisters. Gay agendas are a different story of course. I actually feel sorry for homosexuals, especially males. I can’t imagine the spiritual crisis that they must struggle with, if they love Christ, and his church. We must pray for them, not ostracize them. With God all is possible.

          • George Michalopulos says:

            As have I Dino. I’ve never castigated homosexuals or lesbians for their burden only for the fact that the provacateurs among them have sought fit to rejigger our civilization to accommodate their particular paraphilia. As a whole, society (and that includes them) are far less free than we were mere decades ago.

            • M. Stankovich says:

              Mr. Michalopulos,

              In that paraphilias are sexual behaviours that are mental disorders – which by definition result in distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of function (which is why homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973) – homosexuality does not qualify as a paraphilia. If you would propose to argue that homosexuality results in distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of function, I would argue that, conversely, so does the practice of religion, and we would both be mistaken. Secondly, paraphilic specifically refers to sexual behaviour that is not normophilic, and this is to say much more than simply “socially unacceptable,” as, first of all, five of the eight paraphilias listed in the DSM V are criminal behaviours in every state and jurisdiction.

              Might I suggest to you that the introduction of complex terminology serves no purpose – particularly when you cannot thoroughly & comprehensively explain it – than to muddy waters to no reasonable end that I can see as beneficial.

          • Peter Ray Millman says:

            Well, Dino, I accept gays as brothers in the human race. It’s funny, but on my way home from church, I passed the Unitarian Church, and prominently displayed was the gay flag. If our Orthodox brethren want to be treated like royalty, they may find the Unitarian Church very welcoming.

            As the uncle of a gay nephew, I feel I have to be supportive for the sake of my sister. Can you imagine my sister’s heartbreak? Well, I’ll tell you brother, it is very real. Personally, I find the practice of homosexuality to be abhorrent and repugnant. I feel deep compassion for many people, but not particularly practicing homosexuals.

            Now, I’ll be honest with you, my cousin is a tom boyish lesbian. She has had many girlfriends. Every single one of them has hit on me, which leads me to believe that the so called “lesbians” are for the most part really bisexual, except for the very masculine ones. Well, that’s my two cents for what it is worth.

            By the way, my extremely masculine, marine corps hero at the Battle of Iwo Jima, one of the foremost karate senseis in the world, ranking tenth dan had a gay son. Who can figure?

            • Peter, I prefer they and all us sinners stay away from Unitarian Churches. Please think upon this Preface from the book; THE RETURN, BY ARCHIMANDRITE NEKTARIOS ANTONOPOULOS- Abbot of the Holy Mountain of Sagmatas:

              “It is commonplace to hear others around us saying, so and so is a good person or so and so is a bad person: even we ourselves often make such comments. We have, that is, separated people into those who are good and those who are bad, and this serves as the yardstick by which we judge others. This way of thinking is un-theological and is contrary to the ethos of the Church. First of all, because we do not have the right to judge others when we hardly know them(and even then only by their outward behaviour) and cannot see into the depths of their hearts. Secondly, because for the church there is no such thing as good and bad people, but only those inside the Church, and those outside the Church. With-in the Church salvation is possible; outside it is not…”

              Saint John Climacus notes very beautifully:
              “I have watched impure souls mad for physical love but turning what they know of such love into a reason for penance and transferring that same capacity for love to the Lord. I have watched them master fear so as to drive themselves unsparingly toward the love of God. That is why, when talking of that chaste harlot, the Lord does not say,”because she feared,” but rather she loved much” she was able to drive out love with love(Luke 7:47).

              • Peter Ray Millman says:

                Dino,
                Those are two outstanding passages that I find both helpful and edifying. Thank you, brother.

            • Peter, you write, “By the way, my extremely masculine, marine corps hero at the Battle of Iwo Jima, one of the foremost karate senseis in the world, ranking tenth dan had a gay son. Who can figure?”

              Why is this surprising? Homosexuality in a son has nothing at all to do with how masculine the dad is. It has to do with how masculine the son feels and how emotionally available the dad was to the son during his early formative years and, to some extent, during the teen years also.

              Men with a homosexual problem have essentially a “masculine deficiency” or a masculine “inferiority” complex. They inhabit the body of a man but do not feel like a man because they were never given the masculine affirmation and masculine bonding that every boy needs in order to grow and develop in a healthy manner. Maybe their dads didn’t bother to do it, maybe their dads were so damaged themselves that they couldn’t do it, maybe they had no dad or father figure to help them navigate boyhood. Navigating boyhood and developing into a man is tough — “masculinity is an achievement!” the saying goes.

              Then, after puberty as “sexual” adults, these men with a masculine inferiority complex try to “get” the masculinity they think they lack from other men in a sexual manner (which, despite giving a temporary “high,” does not work at all).

              Homosexuality is inherently different from heterosexuality in that it is based on envy — “I want to be him or to have him,” the gay man classically says of a man to whom he is attracted. Heterosexuality, by contrast, is complementary — the man and woman complement each other. Traditional marriage is not based on envy; indeed it is the opposite of envy.

              Note the craziness to the nth degree of our culture now. Men with a homosexual problem, with a masculine “deficiency” or “inferiority,” inhabit the body of a man but do not feel like a man. The healthy manner to treat this problem is to help the wayward mind realize that yes, you are a man, regardless of the messages you received during your formative years. Healthy treatment involves helping the man to realize that he is a man and as a little boy he was a beautiful young man as well.

              But our crazy culture now wants the body to adapt to what the wayward mind is telling it. For men with homosexual problems, it’s now OK for them to change their body to adapt to the wayward mind — to physically become women — insane! The fact that the “mind” can lead us astray is not news to us Orthodox. Our tradition is well acquainted with the ways the mind can lead us down the wrong paths. Our protestant friends, however, don’t have the same blessing, with protestantism and all its descendants being the result of the mind leading the body down the wrong path. It’s no accident that this cross-gender garbage is taking root in the post-Christian protestant West but nowhere else.

              • Monk James says:

                The anonymous ‘It’s True’ writes here as if he has the whole etiology of homosexuality figured our and explained, remedies all worked out and ready to go.

                He seems not to be aware that his theories have been proved wrong again and again, primarily by their inconsistencies with the lives and experiences of homosexuals who’ve gone on the record about their developmental circumstances.

                Like pulling a thread from a sweater or peeling an onion one layer at a time, rather than slice and dice and analyze people who suffer from same-sex attraction until there’s nothing left, we Christians should be of help to them and to all of each other, helping us all to work through one moral issue at a time. We should stop categorizing and pigeon-holing ourselves and each other, and establish relationships based on love, not on sexual attraction or repulsion, and certainly not on false perceptions of exclusion and otherness.

                Let’s all of us sinners ‘work out our salvation in fear and trembling’, and be of such help to each other as we can. Let’s ‘bear each other’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ’.

              • M. Stankovich says:

                The only “truth” in what It’s true has presented us – and I note again, s/he presents not a single verifiable, independent research study to support or corroborate anything presented as true – is that Joseph Nicolosi was a neo-Freudian charlatan selling the “Oedipal drama” as an exclusive answer to homosexuality. In reality, reparative therapy seems to have been helpful to 3% or less of those who undertook its help, and for how long it was maintained is, to this day, unknown. And worse, we will never completely know the extent of the harm it may have caused. Nicolosi and his wife actually authored a manual on how to prevent your child from become homosexual – traveling around the world conducting “preventative workshops,” insisting that the “traumatic event” that precipitated homosexuality occurred somewhere between six months and three years of age, in effect blaming fathers for the emotional “detachment” that resulted in their son’s eventual homosexuality. Researcher Dr. Warren Throckmorton reported on his site of the increasing

                confusion and pain among evangelical families, where being gay is a challenge socially and religiously. [These] parents were near divorce over who caused their son to be gay. They had read the books and gone to the conferences which blamed them for their son’s “condition.” Surely, no parent is perfect but something seemed wrong about obviously loving and involved parents examining and re-examining every move they made to find out where they “failed.” In [many specific cases], the father had actually spent more time nurturing their sons during the growing up years because their jobs allowed him to work at home.

                Throckmorton reported outright “anarchy” at Nicolosi’s workshops prompted by Evangelical families and their gay sons who showed up to dispute Nicolosi’s theories as the neo-Freudian bullshit that it is. No family, no parent, or no father is in anyway responsible for this psychodynamic trash that is causative of homosexuality. It was a failed theory for schizophrenia and Borderline Personality, and it is a failed theory for homosexuality. It is absolutely shameful.

                I have said this many times on this site, and I will repeat it once again: there is no known factor post-natally – attachment disorder/deficit; childhood trauma (and child sexual abuse in specific); lack of gender- specific modeling and/or “bonding” or direction; or neurological, endocrinological, psychiatric, genetic, or biological derangement – that is causitive for homosexuality. None. No one knows why anyone becomes homosexual. And I emphatically challenge this charlatan and deceiver It’s true to prove me wrong with research.

                • Michael Bauman says:

                  Michael S. Is there a single verifiable research study proving any thing revealed in the Church about the nature of man?

                  • M. Stankovich says:

                    Sorry I missed this Michal Bauman because it is a vital, significant question on many levels, particularly when we consider the idea of a “living Tradition” in the Orthodox view.

                    Early on, I made some statements that it is my impression that the field of human medicine has been much more consistent in its faithfulness – however inadvertent – to the idea of our created humanity as intentionally fashioned as “symphonic,” consisting of biological (including genetic & epigenetic), psychological, psychiatric, social/ interactive (also including epigenetic). and spiritual factors that comprise “anthropos.” This clearly is a truth of natural law on the lips of Aristotle, and from him to Sts. Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, Ephraim the Syrian, Maximos the Confessor, Symeon the New Theologian, John of Damascus, and Gregory Palamas. What is quite remarkable is modern medicine’s fidelity to the integrity of the aggregate of the “symphony,” in other words, grave errors result if we begin to divide “anthropos” into an “area of interest,” and lose sight of how this “area of interest” can only only be appropriately understood within the context of entire whole. The Fathers were adamant and unambiguous as to the grave errors that resulted from “dividing the Lord” – be it into His “natures” or His “wills,” for example – even for purposes of “academic exercise,” and I have referenced Fr. Florovsky’s marvellous discussion of St. Gregory Palamas as the the “existential theologian” and champion of our rigorous Orthodox anthropology on many occasions. Unlike human medicine, however, we have been much less diligent in championing our own anthropology by re-articulating our living Tradition in subsequent generations. And our loss of input, a moral voice, and a voice of moral direction has been diminished, if not nearly extinguished in our society. We are the definers and holders of these principles that are vital to human medicine, yet we have become peripheral.

                    • Michael Bauman says:

                      Michael S. Are you saying that western allopathic medical research is on the same level as the Fathers?

                      We can only be central in a society that honors an Incarnate Lord, God and Savior. The US culture is the most antithetical culture the Church has ever faced. Little of life in the Church is valued by the larger culture.

              • Joseph Lipper says:

                I don’t believe it’s accurate to say that transgenderism is only a post-Christian protestant western phenomenon. There are many transgender people from South America and Asia for instance, and they are not imitating western culture at all; it’s there own thing. Also, we wouldn’t read prohibitions against transgenderism in the Bible if it wasn’t happening even then.

                An interesting tradition of transgenderism exists with the Albanian sworn virgins:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_sworn_virgins

                A woman becomes a sworn virgin by swearing an irrevocable oath, in front of twelve village or tribal elders, to practice celibacy. Then she is allowed to live as a man and may dress in male clothes, use a male name, carry a gun, smoke, drink alcohol, take on male work, act as the head of a household (for example, living with a sister or mother), play music and sing, and sit and talk socially with men.[6][7][8]

                A woman can become a sworn virgin at any age, either to satisfy her parents or herself.[9]

                The sworn virgin is believed to be the only formal, socially defined trans masculine transgender and cross-dressing role in Europe. Similar practices occurred in some societies of indigenous peoples of the Americas.[7]

                • Gail Sheppard says:

                  And then there are eunuchs, ” . . . who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” They predate the post-Christian protestant western phenomenon. Interestingly, the Lord did not have a problem with their decision to alter their bodies. I guess it gets down to *why* you are doing it, as opposed to *what* you are doing.

                  • Monk James says:

                    Gail Sheppard (November 27, 2017 at 2:47 pm) says:
                    ‘…the Lord did not have a problem with their decision to alter their bodies.’
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    The Tradition has never understood these words of our Lord Jesus Christ in this way.

                    Rather, when He observes that some men have become ‘eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God; we take this figuratively rather than literally. After all, He, His most holy mother, His cousin John and His dearest disciple John were all life-long virgins.

                    Like he nazirite vows of the Jews, Christian monastic practice also requires abstinence from sex, and so falls under the same rubric of those who are sexless because of their commitment to God, not because they have had surgery

                    Besides that, the canons of The Church forbid the ordination of a man who has been voluntarily castrated or has castrated himself. The enemies of Origen insisted for years that this was the case with him, but that was a false accusation. In any event, a man who was castrated against his will or for medical reasons is not excluded from ordination.

                    I hope this clears things up a little.

        • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

          Yeah I do not think so because now you start going off into “being Gay is a gift from God” type of thinking. Be careful not to turn an abominable act into a gift. Just saying.

          Peter A Papoutsis

          • Peter not a gift at all but a test, that may become a gift. Like those of us who suffer from illnesses, deformities, pain, and mental disorders testing not only us, but also parents, friends, and children who care for us, and we for them. I know you understand, because my uncle had a autistic son, and understand the 24/7 attention that it requires, when you would rather do more self indulgent activities, or simply nothing at all. We are all tested in different ways, all born with crosses on our backs, how we treat care and respond to them will define us. Never will I put gays on pedestals or accept their agenda for normalcy. Just Christian compassion, especially for those who struggle with homosexual desires.

            • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

              Dino, I did not necessarily disagree with the previous statement, in fact I agree with it. However, the seeds of heresy are there.

              The statement itself is fine, but if you push it you can get into trouble. That’s all I was saying. Otherwise, I agree with you.

              Peter

              • Peter, I believe we fully understand each others points. If you have a minute or two please read my post to Lina, on this topic. This is how I would imagine a God fearing and loving Christian’s struggle with severe sinful, sexual desires, especially homosexual. It is a beautiful story by Saint Germanos of Constantinople. The desire never leaves, nor the guilt, but neither does the love of Christ. When we fall short, all we can do is get back up, and ask for forgiveness. Jesus is patient, thank God for that, Peter!

          • Peter Ray Millman says:

            Peter,
            I don’t believe that homosexuality is a gift from God by any stretch of the imagination. The practice of homosexuality is vile and disgusting. The gays have caused incalculable damage to our country and the world. May I be perfectly clear: I hate, despise, and loathe homosexuality. I don’t know how a parent deals with it, but they have my deepest sympathy.

            The last point I was making about Sensei Summers is that this tragedy can happen to any father, no matter how manly and what a great role model he is. I’m sure it caused him much anguish and chagrine.

            • One cannot say that a tendency toward homosexuality is a gift – at least not in the sense that those who would pervert the Faith insist upon. On that we can probably all agree.

              But I do think it would be true to say that in our sinful state our weaknesses, whatever they may be, are the means of our salvation if, agreeing with the revealed truth of Christ, we are willing to confess them as weakness . After all, the harlots and publicans enter the Kingdom of God in acknowledgement of their own weakness and unworthiness while the ‘righteous’ who are strong in their own strength stand proudly outside.

              I’m not generally a fan of Misha’s comments, but he was quite right in this comment of his on another forum. I hope he will forgive me for quoting him here…

              It seems as though what we are discussing is whether to adhere to the truth, or purport a lie. When one starts with the Orthodox moral tradition, it is obvious that engaging in homosexual sexual activity is a sinful abomination, regardless of the context. That is the truth. If, however, one starts with one’s feelings, which seem overwhelmingly true in some sense since they are being experienced and, in the case of SS sexual attraction, seem compelling, then one seeks to finesse out room within the Orthodox moral tradition to validate that “personal truth”.

              It would be much more simple if upon entering the Church gays simply agreed to cease identifying as gay and accept the fact that, though they may still engage in same sex physical encounters [I assume Misha means here they are bound to stumble, as we all stumble in our own besetting weaknesses], that this activity falls into the category of sin, then everyone could just move on. But it is the perversion or rationalizing of mutually exclusive propositions that attracts resistance. It is the sort of thing you would encounter if you simply kept insisting that 2+2=5.

  7. Michael Bauman says:

    Of course now every white man of notariety and power is having sexual abuse allegations thrown at them. Many from decades ago. They may all be true. Still……

    • Peter A. Papoutsis says:

      Yes the standard is wrong, but the progressives set the standard and now they are eating themselves as they have no one else to feed on. The you have no enemy to fight you fight your own.

      Peter

  8. Peter Ray Millman says:

    Okay, now check this out, Dino. We’ve been reading about Roy Moore and the allegation that he engaged in criminal behavior when he was thirty four and a young girl was only fourteen.

    I am reminded of my Greek papou and my Greek yia yia. My grandpa Peter was thirty four when he married my fourteen year old grandmother Christine . Grandpa Peter died three years before I was born. When my grandmother was in her late eighties she told me about her wedding night. It seems that my grandfather chased her around the bed all night long. By the way, they had six children together. Together, they built the iconic, legendary Colonial Restaurant in downtown Plymouth, MA. The restaurant was voted Plymouth’s best restaurant so many times that they retired the category, and placed the restaurant in the Plymouth Hall of Fame. The restaurant made my family local Plymouth legends.

    • The world our grandfathers lived in and today, might as well be different planets. My dad was 12 years older than my mom.(30 & 18) Which would seem strange now, let alone your grandparents 34 and 14, a generation before my father’s. Men and women during our grandparents day had strict roles that were never broken, and do not apply today. Woman were mothers, housekeepers, cooks, and expected to be virgins, before marriage. Perhaps that’s why the men eyed such young girls.(guaranteed virgins)Greek family honor and pride are over the top, but that’s how it was. Today young girls are allowed to grow into adults and decide their futures. Good or bad, at least they can decide. Things wouldn’t go well for any fool trying to run off with my 14 year old daughter.

      • George Michalopulos says:

        Dino, for what it’s worth, the average testosterone levels for men were twice then what they are today. Leaving aside the age differences, I’d say that our grandmothers were happier women in certain other respects as well. ;=)

        • My Baba would disagree with you about that last part. She told me so herself!

          • Michael Bauman says:

            saunca, it is safe to say that the inter-relationship between men and women has not been good since Adam complained to God about the woman God gave him. Despite that there is great opportunity for healing and salvation in marriage that exists no where else.

            St.Paul’s teaching that man is head of the woman is horribly incomplete without the rest of it: “as Christ is head of the Church”. Plus the complimentary teaching to care for the body of my wife as I care for my own for to injure her is to injure myself leaves little doubt that we men are commanded to care for, protect, cherish and lift up our wives to God in thanksgiving.

            Anything less than that is a violation of who God calls us to be.

            Our headship flows from our fidelity to Christ’s kenotic example.

            I fail at it all the time literally in every moment. It is the love, devotion to Jesus and forgiveness of my wife that allows me to fulfill any of it. Thus is the grace of God manifest in our lives.

            Misha could not be more wrong. His attitude shames all men. George’s sophomoric attempt at humor is in the same category.

            There is no happiness between men and women without humility, repentance and a refusal to seek our own way. Our sexual union must reflect that as well. Chastity and fidelity in marriage should be the rule. Each respecting the other’s body as our own.

            It is in the constant recognition of my failure that I am able to lead my wife as head. It is Christ who strengthens me.

            God is abudantly merciful. Forgive me a sinner.

  9. An observation: The Bible seems to say that our center of being is our soul. Society today seems to say that our center of being is our sexuality. Our soul lives on, the rest of us dies.

    The Church is concerned about the health of the soul. How do we maintain a healthy soul in the face of so many temptations surrounding us? Psalm 50/51 comes to mind.

    It seems to me that the clash between the Church and the society of today is rooted in two very different sets of goals. One is a vision of maintaining a healthy soul, and one is concerned in pleasure here and now and basically the soul be damned. If the wages of sin is death, no wonder so many people engaged in sin decide that death is the only way out. If God wrote His laws in our hearts, as we are told, they are there to contend with whether we like it or not. All of us have to do that every day.

    Thomas Cahill wrote in his book, The Gift of the Jews, that when God put parameters on sexual activity and this was obeyed, the society began to flourish.

    Always choices to make.

    • Lina, et all, please forgive the length of my post, but it speaks volumes to sexual sin, regardless straight or gay,(actually all sin)and the repentant sinner. Note the patient love, mercy, and compassion of Christ. We should take heed from our Lord’s example. A quote from the moving tale from “The New Anthology(Neon Eklogion) of Saint Nikodemos” of the Holy Mountain:

      Saint Germanos of Constantinople, in one of his works on repentance, writes that a certain Christian who was overcome by the demon of fornication, fell into sin every day, and every day confessed it again with tears and prayers, saying:”Lord, have mercy on me and take this temptation from me, because I am overcome by sensual pleasure and there is no person in whose face I am capable of seeing your pure image and of taking joy in your most sweet countenance.”
      He went out of the church and again fell into sin. However he did not despair but, repentant, ran straight back into church. And this went on for many years-it must have been more than ten. And God, in his love for man, patiently awaited and sought his repentance. So one day, having sinned yet again, he ran back into church, fell on the ground and, sighing from the depth of his heart, lamented and wailed, compelling God in his mercy and love to take pity on him and help him, so that he could be set free from the mire of his sin.

      The devil, however, seeing that he was being defeated through his repentance, became insolent and, making himself visible, appeared before the door of the church and, turning away his gaze, cried out: “Damn and blast it! Why do you pursue me so, Jesus, Son of God? Your infinite compassion defeats me. Why do you accept back this impure fornicator who lies to you and spurns you every day? Why don’t you reduce him to cinder with a thunderbolt instead of showing forbearance and waiting for him to return? You are not just, therefore, but you judge unjustly and overlook man’s sins whenever it suits you. As for me, you cast me down from heaven and didn’t take pity on me at all, just because I showed a little pride. And yet, how is it that just because he howls before you, this liar and fornicator , you have compassion on him and heed him so you can show him mercy? Why are you called just, then? For I see that you accept people and in your great love for them you overlook what is just.” And saying this with much bitterness, he puffed out flames from his nostrils.

      At once, a voice from the holy alter was heard saying:”You evil and destructive dragon, you who are not satisfied with swallowing up the whole world, but rush to seize and swallow this man also, who has fallen on my infinite mercy. Can you show me enough of his sins which would be equal to the blood I shed for the salvation of sinners? My sacrifice and death atoned for his sins. When he comes to you with his sins why do you receive him with glee, hoping to gain him, and not turn him away? And I, who am merciful and good, and commanded my apostle Peter to forgive his brother seventy times seven a day, or four hundred and ninety times, that is without measure, why should I not forgive him? Yes I will forgive him and because he hastens to me I will not turn away until I have won him; because I was crucified for the sake of sinners and laid out my hands on the cross in order that whoever desires to be saved might find refuge in me. In my kindness I do not turn away anyone, even if that person comes to me countless times a day and then leaves me again; for I came into the world not to call righteous but sinners to repentance.” And all the while the devil stood trembling, unable to move from the spot.

      Then the voice was heard again,”Listen, you deceiver and enemy of truth, as to what you accuse me of:since I am indeed just, as I find man so shall I judge him. And since this man humbles himself before me in repentance, confessing his sins and pleading for mercy, I will take his soul now and I will give him a crown like that of a saint; for he endured of so many years trusting in my goodness and did not despair of his salvation. As for you, O tormentor, see how much honour his soul will be granted.”

      And then the brother, prostate on the floor of the church before the icon of Christ the Saviour and lamenting and wailing, gave up his spirit. And immediately a company of angels appeared and took up his soul with much glory and rejoicing and brought it to a place of rest. Then the wrath of God fell upon Satan like a tongue of flame.

  10. Michael Bauman says:

    Lina, part of the fallacy of the modern age and it’s seduction is the belief that we have so many choices and that through proper exercise of those choices we can become like God.

    It is the same lie we we’re fed in the Garden and why Jesus rejection of choice in Gethsemane was crucial.

  11. Peter A. Papoutsis says:

    Keeps getting better and better…Not! Pot meet Kettle.
    ___________________________

    Music executive Benny Medina has been accused of attempting to rape Sordid Lives: The Series actor Jason Dottley.

    In an article published by the Advocate Friday, Dottley, 36, claimed Medina — who has managed the careers of several A-list stars like Jennifer Lopez, Will Smith and Mariah Carey, as well as execute producing The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air (which was based on his life) —allegedly tried to rape him at Medina’s Los Angeles mansion in December 2008.

    Medina’s attorneys Howard Weitzman and Shawn Holley said in a statement to PEOPLE, “Benny Medina categorically denies the allegation of attempted rape.”

    The actor claimed Medina invited him and a friend, fellow actor T. Ashanti Mozelle, for a tour of the home, at which point Medina led Dottley to his bedroom and allegedly attacked him.

    Mozelle, who had been swimming in Medina’s pool, told the Advocate he walked into the bedroom and claimed he saw the music executive on top of Dottley.

    “[Mozelle] burst in the room and [was] screaming something like, ‘Get off him!’” Dottley told the publication. “Benny Medina got off of me and grabbed me again by the chest of my shirt and threw me at — not to, but at — his bedroom door and all he said was ‘You two get the f— out of here.’”

    Dottley told PEOPLE Friday he was left feeling “powerless” during and after the alleged attack.

    “What I remember most about the encounter with Benny was the feeling of giving up,” Dottley says. “The moment I realized that I could not fight him off, that I was slowly losing my ability to breathe because of his arm on my neck, that moment of complete and utter powerlessness, that’s what I remember the most.”

    Speaking of the alleged incident, Dottley said Medina’s change in demeanor was like “Jekyll and Hyde,” and that he was scared of telling anyone of the incident, including his then-husband and playwright, Del Shore, whom Dottley claims the music exec threatened.

    “You don’t try to rape someone, then threaten to kill their husband via text message if you aren’t incredibly fearless of what you’re doing,” Dottley says. “This could not have been his first time.”

    The actor told PEOPLE he found “strength in numbers” after Anthony Rapp came forward with his account of alleged sexual assault.

    He adds that he has no regrets about coming forward with his story.

    “[I feel] so incredibly empowered and hopeful that just like the ones before me gave me courage, I hope to help another victim come forward,” he says.

    —with reporting by Liz McNeil

  12. very worried says:

    https://archive.org/details/TON061416

    Here’s an interesting take on homosexuality and its association with the occult, connecting it without our other thread on drag queens. He really doesn’t get into the subject until about halfway through, but it’s worth listening to.

    • Monk James says:

      Well, on the recommendation of the anonymous ‘very worried’, I listened to this bigoted, ignorant screed.

      The speaker is right on a few points, but his take on them is too distorted to be of help. The rest of his diatribe is just nonsense.

  13. Don’t know where else to post this George, but here’s another reason to abandon California and/or homeschool: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/california-kids-to-study-history-with-lgbt-inclusive-textbooks

    • M. Stankovich says:

      Anonymous (in a sea of anonymity),

      Personally, there are two places on earth I’d rather be than CA, NYC & Paris, in that order. Age, arthritis, and Stevie Ray Vaughn taught me an essential lesson: “Couldn’t Stand the Weather.” And that’s a cold shot, baby.

      • Michael Bauman says:

        Michael S. Ahhh, now I see. I would rather be any where in the Plains of this country between the Mississippi River and the Rockies than any where else in the world.

        Especially the Flint Hills of Kansas where Giant Bluestem grass still grows and virgin prairie still exists. A place where “Be still and know that I am God” is a natural part of life.

        • M. Stankovich says:

          But I will wager, Michael Bauman, you have never stood on the crest of Sunset Cliffs in the Ocean Beach community of San Diego where the only sound is the crashing of the waves – the end of the American West Coast – and held the hand of your wife to witness the sun set into the Pacific Ocean. The sky changes from blue, to brilliant gold, to shades of magnificent purple, and finally just a golden hue above the ocean. From the South Bay, to Coronado Island, to the home port of the USS Ronald Regan and its fleet, and the North Island Naval Air Station that protects our freedom, all breathtaking. And Michael Bauman, it’s free, and it happens every day in America’s Finest City!

        • Tim R. Mortiss says:

          I have found that I get restless if there is no saltwater nearby.

  14. Homosexuality is a plague of the great whore., sent by the Holy God to people who serve themselves alone, and live for bread alone. ignoring the 2 great Commandments. St. John Chrysostom confirms this as he wrote they are being punished by God, and the punishment is , is that they like it. I do not like it, to put it mildly.

  15. Michael Bauman says:

    Homosexual ideology has destroyed another locus of beauty. A wonderful a capella group, Pentatonix, which I have deeply enjoyed since their inception six years ago has now, based on their “Christmas Special”, become a prancing gay boy band complete with outfits, an over produced back up orchestra and bad dancers with no artistic integrity.

    They used to sing beautiful, intricate harmonies without any instrumentation. Including some of the most beautiful Christmas songs I have ever heard. Now since two of the five have “come out” it is simply another gay extravaganza. Being gay and supporting the disordered alphabet gangs has overtaken the music.

    One of the homosexual members though could be a text book case for epigentic factors contributing to the his disorder.

    Sad.

    • Michael,
      Mitch, Scott and Kirstin all went to high school together. Mitch and Scott were never “not out.” Even while in the A Cappella TV show, their personal social channels and Instagram photos made it pretty clear that they were gay, or at least bisexual. Throughout the production of their beautiful Christmas music….they were definitely still “out.” So, I’m not sure that their current musical or staging changes have anything to do with their homosexuality.

      It’s also very interesting in that group member Kevin Olusola is very vocal about being an Evangelical Christian.