Well, well, well. It looks like the cat is starting to get out of the bag.
For many months now, Yours Truly (as well as others on this blog) have been warning anybody who would listen that the whole Ukrocephaly thing was not merely an attempt to isolate Russia within the Orthodox world but to lay the groundwork for an eventual unia with Rome.
You can read for yourself below what is going on. One doesn’t need to be a rocket scientist to see which way the ecumenist winds are blowing. (Many thanks to Claes for bringing this to our attention).
You were spot on George, and this has been obvious for years. I was brushed aside many times as “paranoid” when I would tell people this has been Bartholomew’s plan all along, the schismatic sect under Constantinople and the schismatic Unia in Ukraine will merge and introduce more aberrations (there has been y’all of “loosening” homosexuality)
But again I ask…will it just be Bartholomew and the Ukrainian schismatics that join Rome, or, is Bartholomew going to drag the whole Patriarchate, diaspora included, down into oblivion with him? As I have mentioned, there are many Greek parishes and monasteries that will not go along for this.
It is very telling that Bartholomew is clamoring to go into Union with Rome, Rome is a haven for Modernism and homosexuality
The recent scandalous “mixed-media” exhibition, organised by the Fordhamites and supported by the Archons just shows the depths to which those involved with the EP have sunk to. They are apostates, pretending to be Orthodox Christians in order to push their sickening agenda within God’s Holy Church.
http://orthochristian.com/123974.html
I will take the liberty of assuming that NO bishops in North America will say anything about this disgraceful exhibit.
This is the Orthodox version of The Walking Dead. We no sooner report on one story than another pops ups.
Living Dead is a great way to describe the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
Here’s another one: https://orthochristian.com/124043.html
They’re not even trying to hide it anymore. Why are US political officials meeting with relatively obscure Orthodox hierarchs? What does any of this have to do with the State Department? Oh, wait, of course…
I can’t remember the last time the Russian consular staff in the States met with breakaway Anglican groups, but maybe someone can correct me.
Maybe they should…
Yes, of course this is Patr. Bartholomew’s desired end-state: union with Rome. Anyone with half a brain who’s paying attention could see this a year ago and even before then. As others have pointed out, all of Patr. Bartholomew’s actions in Ukraine and elsewhere only make sense if viewed in the context that he is working toward union with Rome.
Important also to point out that there is no talk of Rome renouncing her heresies and “becoming Orthodox again.” This is unifying with Rome as she is, à la how the Uniates operate.
Yes there are are many who will stick with C’ple through all of this, and there are many who won’t. Like the former Russian exarchate in Western Europe, some will leave C’ple willingly, some won’t.
Some – maybe all of the GOA bishops? – will stick with C’ple through all of this, perhaps with the thought that they must work with what they’ve got, rather than taking their flock to safe refuge.
They’d be much like the minstrels who perished while playing their violins on deck while the titanic sank – thinking that this is a virtuous course of action, even though in the end, everyone on board that ship who didn’t escape died. I’d say it’d be far more virtuous to lead your flock out of danger to a safer place – indeed, to Christ and to the ark of His Church, away from C’ple/Rome.
George, I agree with you in that I also think the OCA will soon be in the same boat as the GOA/C’ple. I’m with you in that I agree there are many movers and shakers in the OCA who want to unify with the GOA. I believe that your “OCA goes under the EP” post from a few weeks ago will be the truth in the near future.
Anon, I don’t want it to be true. Please believe me. However, I made a bet with somebody a month ago, something to the tune of a single-malt Scotch, somewhere in the $30 range (we may have to settle for a blend however). Regardless, I will be more than happy to pay up, because that means that the canonists who are presently working behind the scenes –and yes, they are working behind the scenes–to engineer a ukrocephaly for us will have failed.
I’m still hoping that reality sets in.
And consider this, too: http://orthochristian.com/123911.html
It should be obvious to anyone that a false union between the OCU and UGCC would only promote further schisms in Ukraine and abroad. The best solution would be for the UGCC to stop commemorating Rome and merge instead with the OCU. That’s what I hope happens.
That’s rather humorous, Joseph. You hope that the UGCC transitions from heterodox to schismatics.
But Joseph, respectfully, the OCU is not merely schismatic, it’s bogus. Its bishops are self-consecrated charlatans. Therefore its services and sacraments are invalid from the jump.
As if that’s not bad enough, any local Church which worships with them likewise becomes schismatic and drinks “damnation upon itself”.
The danger now is beyond its mere fraudulent founding (which is bad enough): it’s now a toxin which threatens to poison the rest of Orthodoxy.
Sadly, George, I don’t think Joseph gets it. I’m done attempting a dialogue with him. If he is such an advocate for the EP, then I think he ought to be able to answer the questions I’ve posed to him. If you wish to continue to indulge him, that’s your affair.
George, if one or more Hierarchs celebrate with the schismatics, does that make an ENTIRE local Church that they belong to schismatic as well, or, just those Hierarchs?
Is all of the Patriarchate of Constantinople (including the diaspora) now schismatic, or, just those clergy (including Bartholomew) who celebrated with them?
I would have to imagine that for GOARCH and the diaspora jurisdictions to be schismatic they would have to officially recognize the Ukrainian group, or, do they already by proxy bc they are a part of the PoC?
I would think only a decision of the Holy Synod can send a whole church into schism. And even then, there are gray areas.
I would appreciate any direction and/or enlightenment on this issue from any canonist or canon lawyer who reads this blog.
The answer to this question is discussed in detail here.
https://youtu.be/CH5ZHXg4q-s
George, there’s been much ado recently about Ukrainian clergy with ordinations historically linked to “Metropolitan” Vasyl Lypkivsky. Although this “Metropolitan” Lypkivsky was canonically ordained to the diaconate by the Russian Church, his later ordination as “bishop” was entirely non-canonical.
It’s interesting that as part of the UOC-USA, clergy with ordinations linked to “Metropolitan” Lypkivsky have actually been in communion with canonical Orthodoxy for years, and this hasn’t been so much of an issue until now. In fact, I still don’t think anyone is really complaining about this regarding the UOC-USA.
There was no “discussion”. I have mentioned him as somebody whom “UAOC” and now SCU/OCU consider as “saint”. Lipkovski was archpriest. Anyway why do you miss more relevant fact that so called bishops of so called UAOC track their lineage to charlatan and convicted pedophile Vikentiy Chekalin? Funny fact, Chekalin was almost accepted by UGCC before Rome vetoed him.
Brute from bygone ages,
Ultimately the “validation” of clergy rests in the authority of their bishops. So in the case of the former Uniate priest, St. Alexis Toth, he was not reordained, but instead was received into the Orthodox Church by vesting in the altar. Did his Uniate ordination to the priesthood have “valid” apostolic succession? That’s questionable and probably a pointlessly difficult rabbithole to navigate. What is certain is that St. Alexis did have apostolic succession coming from the authority of the Russian Orthodox bishop who received him without reordination.
I’ve mentioned this before. Pat. Bartholomew is acting as head of the OCU…as seen in the meeting being discussed. He is also the head of them because he granted them autocephaly, but as I understand it, it is autocephaly with strings attached so they still have to answer to him for certain things and take his direction. Doesn’t that make Pat Bartholomew a schismatic also? If he is in charge of the schismatics? Seems logical to me that it would, as least according to the spirit of the law. So why is it okay that Met. Tikhon con-celebrated with him, or if anyone con-celebrates with him unless they also want to become a schismatic and supporter of the OCU? (Joseph Lipper has already shared his opinion on this topic, so I’d love to hear from others.)
If he is praying with schismatics, it makes him a schematic.
Mom, that’s why I created the neologism “ukrocephaly” to define what exactly is going on in Ukraine. With LP being the new primate of the GOA here, this is what we can expect here in America as well.
Y’all are warned.
Sadly, there are many who will follow the CP to perdition. The Holy Orthodox Church will get smaller. But that’s not a bad thing. We live in interesting times. We are about to see which Hierarchs will fold to the world…and which ones will stand for the Truth.
Within the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Constantinople is, besides the GOA, the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (Johnstown, PA), which was founded in 1936 precisely to break away from the Greek Catholic Church under Rome (forced on the ancestors in 1646). At that moment in time, of the available options, joining the Constantinople as its own organized diocese seemed most viable (instead of just joining the Russian Orthodox Church / Metropolia as a bunch of parishes after leaving the Greek Catholic Church, as many previous Carpatho-Russians and Galician Russians had done since Fr. (St.) Alexis Toth 1890 and thereafter). So any attempt by Constantinople to “unify” with Rome in any manner would call into question that whole understanding from the 1930s.